Radical Islamist jailed for life

[root]

Clutching a copy of the Koran, he said that "the law compels me to chop off the head of anyone who insults Allah and the prophet".

The inherent dangers of a religuos beleif is that they are open to such a wide range of interpretation

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4716909.stm

[Muezzin]

Peace

Fair do's, the guy commited murder and has now received his sentence. However, bearing in mind the material of Van Gogh's films, it's really not hard to understand why he was murdered.

[Bittersteel]

what did Van Gogh do?

Muezzin BTW, that guy is incorrect.We are supposed to tolerate not chop off anyone's head who insults Allah.Misunderstanding and misconception have occured I guess.

[Muezzin]

Van Gogh made anti-Islamic films, one of which depicted a naked woman with Quranic verses painted over her skin.

I never said the guy was right, I just said I understand why he did it.

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[Bittersteel]

I know.But is there any verse in the Quran which tells us to chop off someone's head if he or she insults Allah?I believe there is none.

[Ummu Amatullah]

asallama alaikum brothers.I don't think the Quran says anything about cutting peoples heads off if they are disrespecting the religion.Maybe it does but couldn't find it.I don't get why Van Gogh was killed and not Ayan Hirsi.She's the one who started the whole thing.At the same time he's the dumb one for going along with it when he knew the consequences.Guess that's what he deserved.As for brother Mohammed Bouyeri hope him the best inshallah.

[Bittersteel]

Ayan Hirsi,who's that?

[Muezzin]

As for brother Mohammed Bouyeri hope him the best inshallah.

He's gonna need it in prison. My Bouyeri, if you're reading this - 'Don't pick up the soap!'

Here's the first thing that came on the list when I Googled Ayan Hirsi

[Bittersteel]

any Muslim was killed after Van Gogh's death?

[kadafi]

:sl:

Indeed, what the brother did was wrong. He took the laws into his own hands.

If a Muslim degrades or insults the Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) or Allaah, will be regarded as a disbeliever who left the fold of Islaam.

Scholars differed about his punishment. Some say that he should be executed straight away whilst other say that he should be given 3-days repentance.

As for the Non-Muslim (who is a protected citizen of the Islaamic state) insults or mocks the Prophet or Allaah will be executed straight away. Some scholars also hold the opinion such as Abu Haneefa (May Allaah have mercy on him) who stated that they should be deported safely from the Islaamic State (i.e. Khilafa).

:w:

[Muezzin]

:sl:

Thing is, Van Gogh wasn't in a Muslim state while he made his blasphemous libel. If he was, execution would be justified. But since he wasn't, like you said, his killer took the law into his own hands and thus should be punished accordingly.

:w:

[Bittersteel]

well what happened after his death?I heard something like mosques were targeted after his death.

[Muezzin]

Try Googling 'Van Gogh death aftermath' or something and see what comes up.

[root]

Holland is the pressure point for Islamic integration at the moment. However, it's not all one sided but it is not going well in Holland at the moment.

[Muezzin]

Isn't Holland (or Amsterdam) supposed to be the Red Light District captial of the universe?

I imagine ANY religious integration would be difficult in such a place.

[root]

If you are asking if the Dutch are the most liberal persons of the E.U then "Yes". So it would follow Islam would have integrated easier. An assasination, follwed by the slaying of Van Goth & one of it's best "Muslim" MP having to go into hiding from Islamic militancy made it a tad more difficult!

[Muezzin]

:sl:

Hash, face it, the guy admitted murdering him. He said he didn't regret it. He did it, no need to deny by claiming they forced a confession since it just makes you look silly.

It was an illegal act, though I can truly understand why he did it. Still doesn't make it legal.

:w:

[root]

Van Gough got what he derseverved. This will also send out a strong message to other ene,mies of islaam who wish to attack islaam thoigh these media channels like these blasphemous films.

Hash, have you never considered the reverse pshcology of what you say in that he sent a message not that Islam cannot be attacked but Islam does not tolerate criticism, and thus why should peole tolerate Islam!

[Muezzin]

Good point.

[Bittersteel]

any remember Mahatma Gandhi and Gaffar Khan?How did they fight violence?By peace and tolerance which is exactly what Islam teaches.I don't like Van Gogh a bit but what that man did was wrong very wrong.

[Ummu Amatullah]

any remember Mahatma Gandhi and Gaffar Khan?How did they fight violence?By peace and tolerance which is exactly what Islam teaches.I don't like Van Gogh a bit but what that man did was wrong very wrong.

:sl:
:brother: I'll admit it's pretty harsh.At the same time I don't think the brother who killed Van Gogh was unjust for Van Gogh got what he rightfully deserved.True Islam does teach peace and tolerance,but we should only treat in such a manner to our fellow muslims and strict against the non-beleivers.Not to the enemies of Islam but to followers of this perfect deen..You speak of peace do you call killing children,raping women,disrespecting the words of Allah and flushing it down a toilet Peace!!!:mad: .As long as this kind of immoral behavior increases ,peace and justice will unfortunately decrease.
:w:

[Bittersteel]

the desecration of the Quran also angered me.

[Muezzin]

:sl:
:brother: I'll admit it's pretty harsh.At the same time I don't think the brother who killed Van Gogh was unjust for Van Gogh got what he rightfully deserved.True Islam does teach peace and tolerance,but we should only treat in such a manner to our fellow muslims and strict against the non-beleivers.

Whoah there sis. It sounds like you're saying 'We should only be peaceful towards Muslims, and everyone else can go to hell'. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here. You never know how many spies could be reading this very page, right now.

Not to the enemies of Islam but to followers of this perfect deen..You speak of peace do you call killing children,raping women,disrespecting the words of Allah and flushing it down a toilet Peace!!!:mad: .As long as this kind of immoral behavior increases ,peace and justice will unfortunately decrease.
:w:

Obviously. But crucially, Van Gogh didn't kill children or rape women (well, for all I know). He did grossly disrespect the Quran and Islam, and I'm really not surprised he was killed for it. That still doesn't make such an action legal in the state in which it was commited.

[Ummu Amatullah]

Whoah there sis. It sounds like you're saying 'We should only be peaceful towards Muslims, and everyone else can go to hell'. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here. You never know how many spies could be reading this very page, right now.

:sl:
:brother: maybe that's exactly what i'm saying :p .Spy huh....How would I know you're not that spy :? :? why don't you answer that. ;D ;D
:w:

[Muezzin]

:sl:

How do you know I'm not a spy?

You don't.

:p

:w:

[Ahmed_Yaseen]

:sl:

I agree with most of Muezzin's posts.

van Gogh's film was clearly meant to insult Muslims. Why paint verses of the Qur'an on the body of a woman which can be seen through her translucent veil???

I'm afraid we live in a world of cause and effect.

However, from a Shariah point of view, I have heard from a learned scholar that vigilante action is very much discouraged or forbidden. Every punishment has to go through the shariah courts.

I suppose one can say the same for terrorism that we see today.

:w:

[Ummu Amatullah]

:sl:
;D ;D ;D ;D could easily find out by contacting the agency :p
:w:

[sonofadam]

May Allah reward the Dutch Brother for this noble act and hasten his release. Ameen.

[Muezzin]

May Allah reward the Dutch Brother for this noble act and hasten his release. Ameen.

Brother, seriously, watch what you say in these troubled times. There are spies everywhere, and it only takes one unguarded comment for an investigation to start.

[Ummu Amatullah]

Brother, seriously, watch what you say in these troubled times. There are spies everywhere, and it only takes one unguarded comment for an investigation to start.

:sl:
:brother: are you joking or are you serious? :confused:
:w:

[Muezzin]

:sl:

I wish I was joking. It's a pity that the truth of our times is so absurd.

:w:

[Bittersteel]

May Allah reward the Dutch Brother for this noble act and hasten his release. Ameen.

His act according to my knowledge wasn't noble.He was violent and impatient.and it wasn't in an Islamioc state.

[Ahmed_Yaseen]

Point well made. It simply wasn't in an Islamic state. and he is not a Qadi, and the repercussions for the Muslims there were quite predictably severe and it is now going to be very difficult to convince Dutch non-Muslims that Islam is the true religion.

[Bittersteel]

definitely.

[AbuMubarak]

The inherent dangers of a religuos beleif is that they are open to such a wide range of interpretation

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4716909.stm

sorry, but as a muslim, i agree wholeheartedly with his statement

anyone who insults the prophet is subject to such a penalty,

Insulting the Holy Prophet and satirizing the Muslims. In Yemen, a woman in her songs said nasty things against the Holy Prophet. Another woman recited verses satirizing the Muslims. Muhajir b Umayya, the Governor of Yemen cut off the hands of both the women. When the case was reported to Abu Bakr he held that the women who had insulted the Holy Prophet should have been killed, while the other woman who had merely satirized the Muslims deserved a lenient treatment.

[AbuMubarak]

Brother, seriously, watch what you say in these troubled times. There are spies everywhere, and it only takes one unguarded comment for an investigation to start.

a part of aqeedah is to have a proper understanding of Allah

Allah commands us to stand for truth, even if it against ourselves, and Allah commands us not to fear anyone but Him

if we are jailed, that is time in solitude
if we are killed, jannah awaits us
if we are tortured, that is forgiveness of sins
and if we are victorious, that is a great step for islam

[Ummu Amatullah]

:sl:
Mashallah brothers:applaud:couldn't said it better myself.There's no need to fear the enemy.If you have fear in your heart then Satan has a passage way into you and makes you weak and vulnerable.Like Hash said the so called," Muslim extremists are only engaged in war because they are defending their rights,family,honor,and deen."Not because they picked a fight rather one would say they were forced to fight.
:w:

[AbuMubarak]

الحمد لله

yaa ikhwan

these are the best of times, not the worst, because it is thru trials and tribulations that separates the muslim from the hypocrite

if you have any doubt, truly read about the life of the prophet and his companions, may Allah bless the prophet and be pleased with the companions

read when they were surrounded by the quraysh at badr (was badr a "military target"?) and you see how thru trials and tribluations, we gain the pleasure of Allah

there are many ahaadith that relate that the prophet always spoke highly of those who fought at badr, the foremost in this world will be the foremost in the akhira

so hold tight to the rope of Allah, AND DO NOT BE DIVIDED

dont fear the blame of the blamers, they called the prophet crazy and many other names, and that did not stop him from his mission

each of us has a mission, and believe it or not it is not to have a career, it is to establish this deen, firstly within our hearts actions and words, and extend that to our family neighbors towns villages and countries

you will hear much that will grieve you from the kuffar, about islam, muslims, everything, but they are sworn enemies to Allah, His Messenger, this deen and the believers (except those who do not wage war against you, nor assist those in waging war against you)

islam not a religion of peace, nor a religion of war, it is a religion of dawa and good manners, and in that it encompasses peace and jihad in the way of Allah

let is not water down islam to please a people who hate islam, no matter what you do, these people will hate islam, except for those Allah finds good in their hearts and guides them to islam

stand firm as witnesses for justice, love Allah, love islam, love the messenger of Allah

[AbuMubarak]

Oh you who believe, if a wicked person (fasiq) comes to you with any news, verify it lest you harm people unwittingly and afterwards regret what you have done” [EMQ 49:6] O ye who believe! Whoso of you becomes a renegade from his religion, (know that in his stead) Allah will bring a people whom He loves and who love Him, humble toward believers, stern toward disbelievers, striving in the way of Allah and fearing not the blame of any blamer. Such is the grace of Allah, which He gives unto whom He will. Allah is All Embracing, All Knowing. [Al_Quraan_005.054] ] And if you turn away, Allah will exchange you for some another people, and they will not be like you. [Al_Quraan_047.038]

[S_87]

what did Van Gogh do?

Muezzin BTW, that guy is incorrect.We are supposed to tolerate not chop off anyone's head who insults Allah.Misunderstanding and misconception have occured I guess.

:sl:

actually thats debateable bro :)

‘Ali RA narrated that a Jewish woman used to insult the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and say bad things about him, so a man strangled her until she died, and the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) ruled that no blood money was due in this case
Abu Dawood

Abu Dawood (4361) narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas that a blind man had a freed concubine (umm walad) who used to insult the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and say bad things about him. He told her not to do that but she did not stop, and he rebuked her but she did not heed him. One night, when she started to say bad things about the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and insult him, he took a short sword or dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it and killed her. The following morning that was mentioned to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). He called the people together and said, “I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right over him that he should stand up.” The blind man stood up and said, “O Messenger of Allaah, I am the one who did it; she used to insult you and say bad things about you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not give up her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was kind to me. Last night she began to insult you and say bad things about you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.” Thereupon the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Bear witness, there is no blood money due for her.”


if a person repents that is different ... btw i am just pointing out


We are supposed to tolerate not chop off anyone's head who insults Allah

different to what you said above :)