UK Muslim Leader Urge Women to Take off the Hijab

[NooralHaya]

UK Muslim Leader Urge Women to Take off the Hijab
Source: Asharq Al-Awsat

By Ma'ad Fayad

London, Asharq Al-Awsat - Islamic leaders in London have called on British Muslim women to remove their veils so to blend in with the general public and avoid being targeted by extremists looking for vengeance.

In a conversation with Asharq Al Awsat, the community leaders blamed the imams of a number of mosques for the deviant beliefs of Muslim youths and the lack of a firm stand against extremism. They called for practical steps to be taken to prevent young Muslim men and women from falling into the trap of terrorism.

Dr. Zaki Badawi, the Dean of the Islamic College in London , said, “In a recent meeting with [Prime Minister] Tony Blair, he asked [representative of the Muslims community] to explain to our youths the dangers of terrorism. Government officials need to take the same step, independently, and meet young Muslims”, absent from meetings between Blair, the Home Secretary and Muslim leaders.

On the link between mosques and extremism, Badawi flatly denied the accusation that religious establishments are dens of extremists. “This is totally false”, he told Asharq Al Awsat. Badawi complained about many imams, “who do not speak to the people at all. Some don’t even speak English. Others never mention important issues such as the rise in extremist sentiment in their sermons. The gap that exists between the mosque and young people is being filled by fundamentalists.”

In the aftermath of the London bombings, the Dean of the Islamic College urged all Muslims, especially women, to be extra vigilant. He said women should remove their veils as a precaution, since his organization has “received a number of threats on a daily basis. British police, across the country, are being deployed to protect Muslim institutions and the public.” Accordingly, Badawi said, “I have advised women not to wear the veil because it might harm them. A Muslim woman should not wear her veil is she has sufficient reason to believe it may endanger her safety.” He noted that, according to Islam, “clothes are for protection and are not to harm the individual.”

As a reaction to the recent attacks, Badawi expected the Blair government to adopt a series of measures targeting the Muslim community in Britain . He said, “The government is likely to pass strict laws that will certainly affect Muslims living here.”

Jawad al Khoei, from the Imam al Khoei Foundation in London also expressed his sorrow at the terrorist incidents that have left London on edge the past fortnight. He said, “Whether we accept it or not, Muslims are blamed for the bombings. We need to rise to the challenges ahead and present the real face of Islam to the Western World, least of all the British government which has offered shelter for Muslims fleeing their countries.” He added community relations are being threatened by “the extremists who attend religious schools in Arab countries and elsewhere who return to Britain and present a negative image of Islam.”

Speaking on the meeting between the Prime Minister and Muslim leaders, al Khoei said, “We explained that the terrorists striking Britain and killing innocent lives are also murdering civilians in Iraq , with no regard to age, sex, ethnicity, or religion. These extremists are inhumane and no do not differentiate between one group or another.”

Accordingly, al Khoei added, “Terrorism should be fought wherever it comes into view and eliminated. We need to unify our ranks and fight extremists who continue to be supported by a number of governments, security agencies, and organizations. He appealed to Muslim scholars and Arab regimes not to use double standards given that, “If Muslims scholars and Arab governments condemned the violence in Iraq , terrorism would not have appealed to so many.”

Sheikh Abdel Karim Khalil, form al Manar Islamic Center reaffirmed “the clear position on any attack on innocent lives, whether in London or elsewhere.” He said his center “strongly rejects any actions that affect security across Britain .” Khalil also pointed out that “The Islamic standpoint is clear when it comes to attacking other people. If we to follow Islamic fiqh (jurisprudence), were are obliged not to damage the security of this country and its people.” More generally, he added, “Islam, by principle, rejects targeting innocent people and causing harm to their person, their property, or their honor.”

The former Head of the Islamic League of Britain, Kamal Helbawi, blamed British security forces for not monitoring the terrorists and exposing them before they acted. He expressed his confidence in the future of the Muslim community in Britain but feared “a worsening relationship between East and West and between Islam and the West.” This is why, he said, “Violence and terrorism ought to be addressed through specialized institutes.”







PERSONAL DISCLAIMER =) : A SISTER WITH TRUE IMAN AND TRUST IN ALLAH 'AZZA WA JAL WILL CONTINUE TO WEAR TE HIJAB, INSHA ALLAH

[minaz]

source please as in url

[NooralHaya]

SOURCE: http://www.asharqalawsat.com/english...ction=1&id=964

[Halima]

Salaam Sister.

Wait what the heck? You know I didn't even read past the title, because I knew that this article was going to be way absurd....lol


This is like a remainer to all sisters that we still have to keep our heads up high while wearing hijab, so thank you sister, much appreciatied.

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[minaz]

Yes we shall not give into these terrorists

[- Qatada -]

ini! its like they tryin 2 make uz kaafir. wa kinda leaderz r they? i dont even think they should be called 'Muslim' leaders.

[minaz]

lol i smell i good ol' LI conspiracy on the horizon! Which is strange as I support this kinda conspiracy for one. BRING ON BROTHER HASH!!!!!

[Ummu Amatullah]

asallama alaikum sister thanks for the info.This is outrages how do they expect muslim women to take off the very thing that protects them of all harmful things.By Allah it's better to die for your Deen then it is to blend in with the kufaar and disobey the one whom created those people which he easily could protect you from.Funny how they have no proof that it was the muslims and yet they're telling the beleivers to disobey Allah.Hope the best for all that live in the U.K what ever the circumstances are don't disobey Allah.They wonder why these people are so against them.Well look back in time then you'll find the answer in colors.

[Halima]

This is just un-questionable. How can non-muslims tell us muslim women to take off something that protects us from the evil? Something that they don't even know the meaning of? That's what I call ridiculous. Subhanallah.

[NooralHaya]

non muslim? this is a UK MUSLIM LEADER who advised the sisters to remove their hijab. here in the u.s. after 9/11 there were also many "muslim leaders" who advised sisters to do the same, as well as changing names and asking the brothers to shave their beards, stop wearing thowbes,and stop wearing their pants above their ankles. and there were MANY who followed these islamic leaders subhanAllah

to me it would make more sense for a non muslim to advise that over a muslim, because at least a non muslim has no idea the reasoning behind the dress code.

[Halima]

Astaughfirallah this just really amazes me. You know I was very mistakin' I thought it was a non-muslim. But it was a MUSLIM leader? Wow. this just doesn't sound logial to me. I would certainly expect it if was a NON-muslim. But heck no. Not a muslim leader.

[NooralHaya]

eh, well there are a lot of those leaders out there, we'll leave the judgements of them to be made by Allah inshaAllah, but it is apparent that their "advice" being given out is saying 'ditch the deen for your well being'.

[root]

I think the Hijab is a very nice thing for Muslim women to wear if they choose so. I am against the covering of the full face as it is unatural, and not fitting with british culture.

[mary]

omg, im quite shocked by what i read, personally i think muslim women shdnt have to take off their hijabs, as firstly even if u dont wear a hijab this being a woman u mite b attaked. Look at the Brazilian man who was shot, how absurd, for having an asian appearance and not stopping when asked by officers! In other word beard or no beard scarf or no scarf u mite b provoked

I dont think its the rite kind of advice cumin from a mulim leader it sounds absurd. If muslim women take their hijabs off now, it will provide more reason to introduce laws to islamic headscarf in another way or means.

[mary]

ditch the deen for your well being'.[/QUOTE]

i think ur right, this is exactly whts happening

[NooralHaya]

I am against the covering of the full face as it is unatural, and not fitting with british culture.

UNNATURAL? the prophet's [sallallahu alayhi wasallam] wives practiced this, how could you say its UNNATURAL? and what do you mean british culture? who cares about british culture, its about following islam. wearing the hijab isnt part of the british culture either. i think if someone decides to live somewhere other than an islamic country, they should be well aware that doesnt excuse them from following what Allah ta'ala has commanded them to do [whether its islamic dress or islamic manners and so forth] to call wearing the niqaab unnaturals not something proper to say..

[minaz]

As ever good point Mary, yeh root i think you have a point, however i think if they choose to cover there face then so be. Is there any ruling about this - i.e. is it more rewarding to cover your face then just wearing a headscarf?

[NooralHaya]

^ that question in itself deseves a seperate thread. i think theres something else pertaining to it. like just about everything else theres like 4345345 different views of niqaab vs hijab. though from my point of view more adilla [proof] stands on the side of wearing the niqaab

[mary]

Personally i think covering ur face has something quite exotic about it, i know strange but when i c a lady coverin her face thats wht cums across, but i think it is her choice at the end of the day... job prospects wise i havent as yet witnessed a girl/lady working with niqaab however on a day to day perspective if that is what she wishes i dont c any harm. But isint the niqaab to do with her madhab, if sumone cud clarify that 4 me?

[NooralHaya]

i attend public school, where 3 sisters wear niqaab. one graduated this year and inshaAllah next year another sister will be entering the high school who wears the niqaab. for the school its done wonders for da'wah purposes and interest in islam sparked. currently a sister and i are giving da'wah to 7 girls, and 4 guys have been interested in islam. as for other who are researching it themself without our knowledge im not sure of. those sisters have been show much respect and courtesy and because of their modesty, people have found a high level of respect for islam even if they havent come to embrace it walhamdulillahi Rabbil 'alameen.

[minaz]

i think theres something else pertaining to it

sos didn't know that. I think in the current climate in our country, it's gonna be harder for sisters to fully cover the face. For example all it'll take is for a suicide bomber to dress fully covered to blow himself up and a whole can of worms will be unopened. Hey root can you tell us why you think it's "unatural" and "non-fitting" in Britain please?

[NooralHaya]

oh.. niqaab could be a madhab thing.. i guess. but not everyone even follows a madhab though anyway. i think its more of personal understanding of the deen and research one does regarding the veiling of the sahabiyaat

[Bittersteel]

this is outrageous!

Ok I am confused with some terms.What does niqaab mean?And also isn't the hijab concept kind of compulsory for Muslim women?

And what does that man mean blend in with the crowd?This is apostacy ofcourse.

Never heard of such thing as British Culture.I thought UK allowed freedom in dress code,etc.

It would have been less surprising if it was a non-Muslim leader but a MUSLIM!

any prophecy has come true?

[minaz]

Never heard of such thing as British Culture.I thought UK allowed freedom in dress code,etc.

"freedom in dress code,etc" is our British culture :D

[- Qatada -]

this is outrageous!

Ok I am confused with some terms.What does niqaab mean?And also isn't the hijab concept kind of compulsory for Muslim women?

And what does that man mean blend in with the crowd?This is apostacy ofcourse.

Never heard of such thing as British Culture.I thought UK allowed freedom in dress code,etc.

bro niqab is which covers the face of the sister and the hijab is the headscarf that should be worn. And i think it would be beter if all muslims started to at least focus more in Islam again and that way we could show we all together on the same side and prepared not to give up what Islam tells us to do.

[NooralHaya]

there we go.. hijab isnt a headscarf akh. hijab is what fully veils the entire body, just not the hair.

islamic dresscode is focusing on islam and if we dont come to understand how a muslim merely dresses [which is for the protection of our own selves] then how will we come to properly communicate with others?

[Bittersteel]

exactly.so what do you suggest?Hold discussions?

[NooralHaya]

yea, but i think if we do that in this thread the mods wont be too pleased =)

[NooralHaya]

but is there anyone who agrees that the sisters in the UK should remove their hijab because of the recent events ?

[root]

NooralHaya - UNNATURAL? the prophet's [sallallahu alayhi wasallam] wives practiced this, how could you say its UNNATURAL?

I personally call it unatural because of mans greatest tool communication:

Whether subtle or intense, facial expressions are the key to how we identify human emotion.

http://i-newswire.com/pr38360.html

In addition, facial recognition plays a very important role to us all wether or not you may acknowledge this. Sub-conciously we use face recognition to build trust & not lust.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4373359.stm

As humans we tend to use facial recognition in two modes, people who resemble us are taken as friends and we are quicker to trust them. However, at the same time we find face resemblence unattractive which supports the notion that instinctly we avoid family traits and thus avoid the costs of inbreeding:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4373359.stm

Men with feminine faces will be luckier in love as most women are attracted to them rather than masculine men,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4261489.stm

and what do you mean british culture? who cares about british culture

The British care.

its about following islam. wearing the hijab isnt part of the british culture either. i think if someone decides to live somewhere other than an islamic country, they should be well aware that doesnt excuse them from following what Allah ta'ala has commanded them to do

As I said, I don't see anything wrong with wearing an Hijab but I fail to see why one needs to cover ones full face. Some cultures in the world today see women not covering up other than genitalia including women (excluding breasts), yet your culture and my culture (I make a destinction) because you have, would not look positively to people walking around naked. What of British Culture if we declared "open season" for cultures to practice their culture in full. Let's turn a blind eye to the children physically abused by African Adults due to suspected demon posession, afterall it is their culture and thus they should be free to exercise it......... Surely your position is madness

[NooralHaya]

so you're saying that one shouldnt follow Allah ta'alas orders to lower their gaze then as well? if it seems so important to use the face to tell how a person may "feel" or what not. when communicating between the 2 genders [which should be rare] whys it essetial to know the emotion of the person? you say what you have to say and go on with your life. i agree that certain things in culture shouldnt be practiced, but NIQAAB IS NOT CULTURE AKHI ITS RELIGION.

[Muezzin]

:sl:

The guy in the article said 'women should remove the veil'. To me, the 'veil' means the niqaab rather than the hijab.

About blending in, we are taught as Muslims to blend in - i.e. by not wearing bright colours or styles that attract attention to ourselves. However, we are not taught to blend in to such an extent that we lose our own way of life.

:w:

[aamirsaab]

:sl:
In other words: Hijab stays
:w:

[NooralHaya]

the title of the article however, is Women to Take off the Hijab that isnt niqaab...

[Muezzin]

:sl:

Maybe the author misinterpeted the man's remarks (like half the people in this thread :p)

Seriously, I'm sure a Muslim leader wouldn't urge women to remove their hijabs.

:w:

[Ummu Amatullah]

Astaughfirallah this just really amazes me. You know I was very mistakin' I thought it was a non-muslim. But it was a MUSLIM leader? Wow. this just doesn't sound logial to me. I would certainly expect it if was a NON-muslim. But heck no. Not a muslim leader.

salams :sister:[content removed].I don't understand the reason why they're so scared of Bush and Tony Blair.If Allah is with you a 100% then why be scared of the enemy.Like before one guy said that Christianity is men without a religion, and Islam is a religion without man.Beginning to see his point.

[Halima]

Salaam dear sister,


In my personal opinion if they actually tell us to take off the hijab or niquab, then they are not faithful muslims. Instead they are following the non-muslim ideology that women should take off the hijab because they just want us to dress normal like any other man or woman walking down the street. If they want this to happen to us, then why do they call themselves muslims for? They have a different ideology then us, they are practically following the non-muslim ideology which is a shame. Instead of using the constitution " freedom of religion" they are implying that muslim women should not be able to encounter freedom of religion in this society which is a shame. that shouldn't give a hoot in hell about our safety by taking off the hijab if anything they are supposed to encourage us to leave it on. Instead they are follwoing the other "non muslim" ideology, and wait- they are supposed to be leaders..not FOLLOWERS. So what kind of request is this to take off the hijab or niquab? Just as long as Allah(swt) made it an obligation for us to wear hijab we MUST remain wearing hijab we cannot follow a man's order.

[Ummu Amatullah]

:sl:
:sister: Nooral Haya where in the religion does it say that the niqaab is obligatory for a women to wear.Even scholors are going crazy on each other because of this issue. Some Mujtahid-Imams from the mazahib have taken this view. Another Islamic opinion is that veil has not been made compulsory for women in Islam and that their face do not have to be covered under any circumstance. This view has also been held by some Mujtahid-Imams from amongst the mazahib.
:sl:

[Ummu Amatullah]

sis Halima couldn't have said it better myself

[Halima]

:sl:
:sister: Nooral Haya where in the religion does it say that the niqaab is obligatory for a women to wear.Even scholors are going crazy on each other because of this issue. Some Mujtahid-Imams from the mazahib have taken this view. Another Islamic opinion is that veil has not been made compulsory for women in Islam and that their face do not have to be covered under any circumstance. This view has also been held by some Mujtahid-Imams from amongst the mazahib.
:sl:

I agree 100% Shukri, as a matter of fact there is no where in the quran where it says that niquab is mandatory it is on the basis of one's own will to wear it or not.

[- Qatada -]

I personally call it unatural because of mans greatest tool communication

OK root to begin with Islam doesn't encourage the male and the female sex to have a conversation with each other just for the fun of it. If a women needs to buy something from a shop or store the shop keeper doesn't need to look at her face expression to see what she has in her hand/what she wants to buy, she simply buys the product, leaves the store and goes back to her home or friends.

There she doesn't have to cover her face, she can take the hijab off as long as their are only mehram men there. (mehram - men who cannot get married to her eg. her father, son, grandad, stepson etc.) She can take her hijab off in front of them but she should still remain modest.

In addition, facial recognition plays a very important role to us all wether or not you may acknowledge this. Sub-conciously we use face recognition to build trust & not lust.

You ever noticed how in all these movies when a gurl or guy look at each other they say things such as 'love at first sight.' Now imagine if a women wore a niqaab over her face, could that actually happen? would a guy look at the gurl and go 'i'm in luv' or would he look away cz he believes the gurl'z not worth looking at. That is what happens when most men look at niqaabis and hence the lust doesn't even start off becz he looks away right at the beginning.


As I said, I don't see anything wrong with wearing an Hijab but I fail to see why one needs to cover ones full face.

Refer to what i just said above.

Some cultures in the world today see women not covering up other than genitalia including women (excluding breasts), yet your culture and my culture (I make a destinction) because you have, would not look positively to people walking around naked.

Yeh we wouldn't want that because it would cause alot more fitnah and temptation. Have you ever noticed how in countries such as the US, the rate of rapes is higher then countries where women dress up modestly. The reason for this is because women do not show their bodies. This doesn't cause the temptation for men in the first place hence the lower rate. Something that also decreases the amount of rapists is the fact that in Muslim countries, rape is a major sin and the penalty for it is death. In countries in America or even in the UK the penalty for rape is only a few years in jail.

Let's turn a blind eye to the children physically abused by African Adults due to suspected demon posession, afterall it is their culture and thus they should be free to exercise it......... Surely your position is madness

root, the first Muezzin of the Prophet (salalahu alai hi wasalam) was a black man. Abu Bakr (ra) set him free even though they were a arab. In Islam a Muslim should help free slaves and Islam does not allow Muslims to have slaves in the 1st place. At

the time when Islam was freeing slaves the Europeans and Americans were still taking slaves away from their homelands in slave ships and forcing them to work for them. This carried on even in the 1800s whereas Islam had stopped this 1400 years ago.

If our position is 'madness' I really dont understand how you would feel if Allah (swt) forbid but if someone from your family got raped how you would feel - the person being in jail just for a few years and coming back could attack another innocent girl again and this could change her for life.

Islam is democracy and Allah (swt) created the world and the people inside of it. They know how the people react to diferent situations, and Islam (the word of Allah (swt)) was given to us to protect us. And if you follow what Allah (swt) says insh Allah you will be protected.

[Muhammad]

:sl:

I would like to remind members about two things:

1. Root is not a Muslim and therefore we must understand that he is coming from a different perspective to the discussion.

2. While we are expressing our opinions, we should be careful about generalising and categorising a large group of people due to the actions of a few. A few 'Muslim' leaders might express opinions that we find unacceptable, but it is not right to say things about "most Muslim leaders" based on this.

Btw, there are already discussions on Niqab and Hijab in other parts of the forum, so please post there if you wish to discuss the issue in depth.

Jazakallahu Khayr,

:w:

[idris patel]

Assalamo alaikum

Every good and bad is from Allah (SWT) - our sustainer, our creator and our protector. The hijab is a muslim women's identity and the fact that a 'so- called'- muslim has urged our sisters to remove it, is a disgrace.

Our faith is true and we should be proud to be muslims. Obviously, the current state of affairs does not represent Islam and the beautiful teachings of our beloved prophet Muhammad Mustafa (SAW) and therefore we should not fear anyone but Allah.

In these testing times, we should be steadfast on our faith, remember Allah (SWT) abundantly and engage ourselves in intense invocation.

My humble request to my fellow muslim brothers and sisters is that engage yourselves in greater worship of the one almight Allah (SWT).

[Muezzin]

:sl:

In the aftermath of the London bombings, the Dean of the Islamic College urged all Muslims, especially women, to be extra vigilant. He said women should remove their veils as a precaution, since his organization has “received a number of threats on a daily basis. British police, across the country, are being deployed to protect Muslim institutions and the public.” Accordingly, Badawi said, “I have advised women not to wear the veil because it might harm them. A Muslim woman should not wear her veil is she has sufficient reason to believe it may endanger her safety.” He noted that, according to Islam, “clothes are for protection and are not to harm the individual.”

Just clarifying (again) - he never said 'Hijab' or 'headscarf'. He said 'veil', which to me suggests the niqaab; the covering of the face. I think that the author of the article misinterpreted Badawi's remarks. If he had meant to say hijab, surely he would have done. If he thought an English listener would not understand this term, he would have said headscarf.

Can we just let this non-issue go now? Even if he is saying take off your hijab (which I seriously doubt), no one says you have to listen to the guy.

:w:

[root]

To AQIB.......

All qoutes by Aqib.....

OK root to begin with Islam doesn't encourage the male and the female sex to have a conversation with each other just for the fun of it. If a women needs to buy something from a shop or store the shop keeper doesn't need to look at her face expression to see what she has in her hand/what she wants to buy, she simply buys the product, leaves the store and goes back to her home or friends.

I disagree. given your very uttermost basic assesment. Let us say she bought a pint of milk, and the serving person stated "£1.97 please". One would notice "Surprise" in her face to know something is not right. However, your analogy is quite poor since it would appear thatt women don't have much freedom as far as your concerned for what about going out with friends, work, college hobbies everything that involves "having a life"!!

There she doesn't have to cover her face, she can take the hijab off as long as their are only mehram men there. (mehram - men who cannot get married to her eg. her father, son, grandad, stepson etc.) She can take her hijab off in front of them but she should still remain modest.

Nothing against what you say here, however please note I think the Hijab is a nice thing for Muslim women and my points are only valid to full facial coverage.

You ever noticed how in all these movies when a gurl or guy look at each other they say things such as 'love at first sight.' Now imagine if a women wore a niqaab over her face, could that actually happen? would a guy look at the gurl and go 'i'm in luv' or would he look away cz he believes the gurl'z not worth looking at. That is what happens when most men look at niqaabis and hence the lust doesn't even start off becz he looks away right at the beginning.

Movies! They are not real. Surely we don't take movies literally!!!!!

Again, look at my post and the link. facial awareness creates trust & not lust!!!!!

Yeh we wouldn't want that because it would cause alot more fitnah and temptation.

So you don't mind objecting to other peoples cultures and restricting their practices. A little hypocriticle of you would you not agree.

Have you ever noticed how in countries such as the US, the rate of rapes is higher then countries where women dress up modestly. The reason for this is because women do not show their bodies. This doesn't cause the temptation for men in the first place hence the lower rate. Something that also decreases the amount of rapists is the fact that in Muslim countries,

Now you are just having a luagh. Firstly, care to post the rape statistics for Pakistan & Iran! Before you even bother, most "Muslim" countries don't officially record rape statistics so we don't actually know the numbers. Other facts you ignorantly failed to mention are:

1. In Islamic countries most rapist are charged with adultry not rape.
2. In most Islamic countries you cannot be convicted for raping your wife
3. In most Islamic countries both rape and sexual offences are not recorded from a central location and thus statistical data is not available (How convenient.)

Rape, is not even in the same league within Muslim countries as the west. Here is the Pakistani Rule of law:

The Offence of Zina (Enforcement Of Hudood) Ordinance, 1979.
Ordinance No. VII of 1979
February 9th, 1979

An Ordinance to bring in conformity with the injunctions of Islam the law relating to the Offence of Zina.

WHEREAS it is necessary to modify the existing law relating to zina so as to bring it in conformity with the Injunctions of Islam as set out in the Holy Quran and Sunnah;

AND WHEREAS the President is satisfied that circumstances exist which render it necessary to take immediate action;

Now, THEREFORE, in pursuance of the Proclamation of the fifth day of July 1977, read with the Laws (Continuance in Force), Order, 1977 (C.M.L.A. Order No. l of 1977), and in exercise of all powers enabling him in that behalf, the President is pleased to make and promulgate the following Ordinance:-
Chapter I
PRELIMINARY
1. Short title, extent and commencement

this is essentially law of Pakistan, I did not post it all because it is large. However I will post Section 8:

8. Proof of zina or zina-bil-jabr liable to hadd.
Proof of zina-bil-jabr liable to hadd shall be in one of the following forms, namely:-
(a) the accused makes before a Court of competent jurisdiction a confession of the commission of the offence; or
(b) at least four Muslim adult male witnesses, about whom the Court is satisfied, having regard to the requirements of tazkiyah al-shuhood, that they are truthful persons and abstain from major sins (kabair), give evidence as eye-widnesses of the act of penetration necessary to the offence:

Provided that, if the accused is a non-Muslim, the eye-witnesses may be non-Muslims.

So unless the accuser confesses, or 4 "Muslim" witnesses witness the actual "Penetration" you ain't got a hope of securing a rape conviction.

Your stats are deception in the highest order!!!!!!!!

rape is a major sin and the penalty for it is death. In countries in America or even in the UK the penalty for rape is only a few years in jail.

Members of the E.U are not allowed to have a death penalty. I support this since I don't want innocent people being killed. Bottom line is you can free an innocent man from jail and he may try to get a life back. You cannot bring back the DEAD!

root, the first Muezzin of the Prophet (salalahu alai hi wasalam) was a black man. Abu Bakr (ra) set him free even though they were a arab. In Islam a Muslim should help free slaves and Islam does not allow Muslims to have slaves in the 1st place.

And quite right too. However, I stayed a significant time in Pakistan and able to compare between UK and Pakistan. Yes slavery is abomnable in any form, however in all sense and purpose "Slavery" is but another word. Servents were always very uncomfortable on my lips whilst in Pakistan.... And I was on no package holiday I can tell you, I experienced the real deal of Life in Pakistan (Love the people, love the culture totally hate the corruption)

the time when Islam was freeing slaves the Europeans and Americans were still taking slaves away from their homelands in slave ships and forcing them to work for them. This carried on even in the 1800s whereas Islam had stopped this 1400 years ago.

hhmm, 605 years ago it ended. get over it please. All the perpetrators associated with slavery are long time DEAD!!! Go dig up the bones and punish them if u will, or beleive your God sent them to hell (and I hope so) but stop living in the past for all our sakes.

If our position is 'madness' I really dont understand how you would feel if Allah (swt) forbid but if someone from your family got raped how you would feel - the person being in jail just for a few years and coming back could attack another innocent girl again and this could change her for life.

Sex offenders register anyone! Most rapes are not brutal random strangers. You are more likely to be knocked down and killed by a car than raped.

Islam is democracy and Allah (swt) created the world and the people inside of it. They know how the people react to diferent situations, and Islam (the word of Allah (swt)) was given to us to protect us. And if you follow what Allah (swt) says insh Allah you will be protected

I respect islam, so respect the democracy of the West. and stop -----ing about how perfect your laws are, for they are not. For better or for worse, the west is what the west is. And ultimately I don't see Pakistan's and Iran's imigration being flooded by the West.

I ain't debating this, I was just angry at how quickly you peddled your misconceptions. I will state again my point is only "I think muslim women look lovely and part of the British culture with an Hijab, however. Covering of the face is not warmly welcomed by British people as much as a culture of walking down the street naked is not welcomed in both our cultures. I take my hat off to the Muslim suggesting uncovering of face. we want you to be Muslim, we want pakistani-british people. Both sides have to give a little to gain a lot

Thanks

Root

Regards

root

[NooralHaya]

as salaamu alaikum

sister shukri... no where did i say that NIQAAB WAS OBLIGATORY, all i said that it was part of islam and not part of a culture. i also said it's a matter of one's personal understanding of the deen and reports of the prophet and companions regarding the niqaab. so i just want to make sure that no one thinks im runnin around here saying NIQAAB IS FARD, but rather, it is something that's part of the deen, so whether it is fard, mustahab, wajib, sunnah, i will support it inshaAllah.


"Imam Shafi, Malik and Hanbal hold the view that niqaab (covering the face and the hands completely with only a small area for the eyes to see) as being compulsory (fard). Imam Abu Hanifa says that niqaab is Wajib and the face and hands can be exposed provided that there is not fear of desire if one looks at the female face, otherwise if there is the slightest chance of desire developing in the looker (the meaning of desire is that the looker would see the female face and think that she is beautiful, sexual thaught is not what is meant) then exposing the face and hands is Haraam."

(This is from the fatwaa issued by Mufti Anwar Ali Adam Al Mazahiri on 13/9/99. He derived the opnions of the 4 Imaams from these sources Tafseer Ibn Katheer, Tafseer Ma'rifatul Qur'aan, Durre Muhtaar, Fatawa Shami, Al Mabsoot, Fathul Qadeer. And the opinion of Imaam Abu hanifah is a directly derived from his statements in the Famous book of hanafi Fiqh Fatwaa Shami)

[http://members.tripod.com/~ibnfarooq...b.htm#4imaams]

and Allah ta'ala knows best.




i'd like to apologize to ROOT, i made the assumption you were muslim, so please forgive me for anything i said that either didnt make sense or sounded harsh =)


as salaamu alaikum wa rahmatullah

[root]

i'd like to apologize to ROOT, i made the assumption you were muslim, so please forgive me for anything i said that either didnt make sense or sounded harsh =)

Thanks for the comment. Don't worry I have sufficient thickness of skin :-)

[Bittersteel]

Root you were wrong.You mixed adultery with rape.

Originally Posted in Islam online and Got this from Why Islam forums

Wa `alaykum As-Salamu wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh.


In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.



All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.



Dear brother in Islam, thanks a lot for your question which reflects your care to have a clear view of the teachings of Islam. Allah commands Muslims to refer to people of knowledge to get themselves well-acquainted with the teachings of Islam as well as all aspects of life.

In Islam, we are not allowed to tarnish the honor of anyone. One is required to produce four witnesses when making an allegation of adultery against another person; otherwise, one will be guilty of slandering.

A raped woman is a victim that must be treated with honor and kindness. She is NOT required to produce four witnesses to prove the crime done against her, nor is she punished for the crime done against her.

In his response to your question, Sheikh Ahmad Kutty, a senior lecturer and Islamic scholar at the Islamic Institute of Toronto, Ontario, Canada, states:


If a person makes an allegation of adultery against another person (male or female) he or she must produce four witnesses to support such an allegation; otherwise, he or she is guilty of slandering, which is a grave offense in Islam, for we are not to tarnish the honor of anyone.

A woman who has been raped cannot be asked to produce witnesses; her claim shall be accepted unless there are tangible grounds to prove otherwise. To insist that she provide witnesses is akin to inflicting further pain on her. If anyone refutes her claim of innocence, the onus is on him to provide evidence, and she may simply deny the claim by making a solemn oath, thus clearing herself in public. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “The onus to provide evidence falls on the one who makes a claim, and the one who denies (the same) can absolve himself or herself by making a solemn oath to the contrary.”

As for a spouse who witnesses his or her partner committing adultery and the other party denies it and they are unable to provide witnesses, they are, if they so desire, to part company by repudiating each other by engaging in what is known as a solemn oath and prayer of curse (li`an). It is described thus in the Qur’an: “And those who accuse their wives, and have no witnesses but themselves, then the testimony of each of them shall be a testimony sworn by God repeated four times, that he is indeed truthful. And the fifth (oath) is that God’s curse be upon him if he is lying. And it shall avert punishment from her that she testify a testimony repeated and sworn by God four times, that he is lying. And a fifth (oath) that the wrath of God be upon her, if he has spoken the truth” (An-Nur: 6-9).

Excerpted, with slight modifications, from: www.muslims.ca

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503548970


http://www.islamonline.net/askabouti...uestionID=2681

[root]

Root you were wrong.You mixed adultery with rape.

Exscuse me, what do you mean exactly!

Do you mean Islam Online dictates Pakistan Law making framework. Or do you mean I was wrong about the majority of rape cases not being rape but adultry, and which part of my post do you feel was wrong

Regards

Root

[Bittersteel]

Made a mistake sorry I thought you were talking about the Islamic law.Apologies.

Weren't those rapists later arrested?( I am talking about the recent rape case)

[sundus]

kinda sad who they are calling "leaders" these days. Why are so many muslims walking around afraid of the kufar and not ALlah? they are more concerned about what the kufar think of them and less concerned with obeying the One that created them and being worried about what He, aza wa jal, thinks of them. I just dont get it. The ummah really needs help. And when this so- called "Muslim leader" told women to remove their veil was he talking about the hijab or the niqab b/c sometimes the terms are used as synonyms? Either way I dont think muslims should change anything about ourselves. Allah tells us in the Quran that that they [kuffar] wish that you would compromise in your religion so that they might compromise with you. And He subhana wa ta 'ala also tells us that they [kuffar] will never be happy with us until we are like them. But in that case [if we become like them] we would surely be the losers in dunya and in akhira. The command for the hijab is in the Quran...mubeen...plain and simple. halas...no compromise.

[Halima]

Salaam.

It's their ideology we should attack and not themselves because not all muslim leaders are the same. they are all different.

[root]

I heard on the news the other day where the news presenter put it to a Muslim that Islam lacks a central voice such as the Pope with catholism. So when it comes to a single islamic point or understanding their is not one clear decisive interpretation on a matter pertaining to Islam!

[NooralHaya]

thats with every faith though, hence all the different sects. in no matter with a group of people come to the same conclusion

[TEH]

Hence the necessity of a khalifah...

:D

[Muezzin]

:sl:

Indeed.

Sisters, seriously, if you think this guy is saying remove your hijab (which I still think he isn't), then feel free to ignore him if you so choose.

All this whinging about what I think might be a misinterpretation is just getting annoying now. :p

:w:

[TEH]

The Muezzin Has Spoken...

:d

[Muezzin]

The Muezzin Has Spoken...

:d

I'm just a simple man trying to make my way in the world :p :)

Having read sundus' post though, I have to agree with the mentality of no compromises.

[root]

Having read sundus' post though, I have to agree with the mentality of no compromises.

I am just happy that the West did not come to the same conclusion as you!!

[Muezzin]

Touche, root.

But I was just referring to the issue of the hijab. Muslim women shouldn't have to compromise with their headscarves. The veil is a different, more complex matter.

So I guess instead of touche, I should be saying 'enguarde' :p

[jaleel]

Take Off Hijab to Avoid Harm: UK Muslim Scholar

Badawi said they have registered more than 15,00 assault against hijab-clad women in only three days.


By Ahmed Fathy, IOL Staff

CAIRO, July 28, 2005 (IslamOnline.net) – A leading British Muslim scholar has said that Muslim women living in the European country, where Muslims have been suffering mounting abuse and harassment since the July 7 London attacks, can take off their hijab.

"I have issued a fatwa that Muslim women in Britain have an Islamic right to take off their hijab at this point of time if attacked or fearing to be attacked," Dr. Zaki Badawi, the Dean of the Muslim College in London, told IslamOnline.net over the phone from the British capital.

Badawi said they have registered more than 15,00 assault against hijab-clad women during the past three days only, in addition to a flood of threat letters.

He asserted that in Islam hijab is originally meant to identify Muslim women, so that they might not be attacked or harassed.

The scholar cited the Qur’anic verse which reads: "O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognized and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful." (Al-Ahzab: 59)

"If hijab becomes a reason of harm for Muslim women in Britain at this time, then I tell them to take it off so that they would not be recognized and consequently attacked," said Egyptian-born Badawi.

"Muslims (in Britain) are scared and each feels he/she is a suspect. The picture is, indeed, gloomy and we are trying all we can to address it."

A Guardian/ICM poll published Tuesday, July 26, indicated that nearly half a million Muslims contemplated leaving Britain after the London attacks.

It showed that tens of thousands of Muslims have suffered from increased Islamophobia, with one in five saying they or a family member have faced abuse or hostility since the attacks.

Police have recorded more than 1,200 suspected Islamophobic incidents across the country ranging from verbal abuse to one murder in the past three weeks.

A British Muslim of Pakistani origin was beaten to death by a gang of extremists in Nottingham in northern Britain on Sunday, July 10.

At least seven mosques have come under arson and racist attacks few hours after the bombings.

Hijab Defender

Dr. Badawi, a prominent Islamic scholar, community activist, and promoter of interfaith-dialogue, stressed that his fatwa only applies to Muslim women in Britain.

"I staunchly opposed the March 2004 French law banning hijab in state-run schools," he said.

"However, the British case is different and hence requires a different reading."

France triggered a world controversy after adopting a bill banning hijab in public schools and institutions, which was branded by the Human Rights Watch (HRW) as "discriminatory".

Islam sees hijab as an obligatory code of dress, not a religious symbol displaying one’s affiliations.

Badawi, born 1922, is currently the principal of the Muslim College in Britain, a postgraduate seminary responsible for the training of imams and Muslim leaders in the West which he founded in 1986.

He received his undergraduate degree in theology from the Cairo-based Al-Azhar University, and a master's degree in Arabic Language and Literature in 1947.

Badawi moved to the United Kingdom in 1951 and studied psychology at University College London, obtaining his bachelor's degree in 1954 and a doctorate in Modern Muslim Thought from London University.

His teaching posts have taken him to universities in Malaysia, Singapore, Nigeria and the United Kingdom.

In 1978, Badawi was appointed director of the Islamic Cultural Centre (ICC) and Chief Imam of the London Central Mosque in Regents Park.

During that period he participated in establishing the Shari`ah Council as a facility to reconcile conflicts between Islamic law and the British civil code.

Badawi was elected chairman of the Imams and Mosques Council by the National Conference of Imams and Mosque Officials of the UK in 1984. He still holds this position.

He participated in negotiations with the Bank of England to establish the first Islamic financial institution licensed in the United Kingdom, the Islamic Finance House (IFH), which he managed for three years.

Badawi has published and lectured on a wide range of issues, including various conflicts, Islam in Britain, democracy, the rights of the unborn child, and human rights.

He is a co-founder of the Three Faiths Forum, vice chairman of the World Congress of Faiths and director/trustee of the Forum Against Islamophobia and Racism (FAIR).

http://www.islamonline.net/English/N...rticle05.shtml

[Niqaabi4Life]

Has anyone else issued a fatwa to this effect ??

[Niqaabi4Life]

Assalaamualaikom wa rahamatullahi wa barakatoh

Well, I had written a very lengthy reply and it got lost. :( So I will just briefly state my points without explanation.

Usually, in America and Canada the word veil refers to both hijab and niqab. People on the street will not definiate from the two. The Imam was probably refering to a scarf. It is not uncommon for Imams to make excuses like this after a terrorist attack.

Niqabi does not prevent communcation. Blind people don't see and the communicate perfectly fine. What appears natural to one might be unatural to other. This is relative to the culture, society, and time. Also, Ayesha Umm al Momimeen would put a finger in her mouth as to make her voice less attractive. Try talking with a finger or two in your mouth. How is that for communication?

The Qur'an tells women to pull the khimars infront of them. The word khimar is a head scarf. The women of the time put their scarves on and put the ends behind them. Allah says pull it infront and cover your janub (breasts or "sex parts"). This can be seen as put infront to cover face and breasts or put it around your face and cover the breasts.

The Qur'an also says for women to put the Jelbab around them. Again, the ulemah have said jelbab to be an outergarment (not a skirt, shirt, or pants) that completly conceals the body. Alot of the ulemah say that it covers the face also. It depends on what dictionary we are looking at as to the exact meaning. However, for those who hold niqab to be fardh, the verse mandates niqab.

What we all know at the time of these verses revealed is that 1. women took their curtains 2. cut their aprons to cover their faces 3. flocked like crows 4. spoke behind curtains and 5. were generally kept out of the public eye. There are also narrations about sahabas walking ahead of their women and blowing out the street candles before the women came to the city. There also stories of caravans moving at night so the women arent seen.

Regardless if one thinks niqab is fardh/wajib or not, at the least it is mustahab and Sunnah. That should be suffiecent evidence for people to respect it and aspire to it.

Niqab doesnt hold a woman back from anything. Imagine, "this cloth sewn to string kept me from university and job!" It sounds stupid because it is stupid. What holds people back is their minds. If you let it hold you back, it will...just like anything else would. I know personal a niqabi docotor, public school bus driver, engineer, parol officer, real estate agent, and lawyer. I also wore niqab in a town of 30 thousand in Texas. There were about 15 muslim families at best. It was an all republican town. Democrats werent even on the ballets in local elections! And, alhamdulillah nothing ever happend to me. The reality is if Allah wills you to be hurt, murdered, or discrimmated against, you will be..and nothing will keep you from it not even removing a veil.

Society never saw any changes by its members standing back and confirming. Rather, the greatest changes take place when the select few stand firm and challenge what is the norm.

And Allah truly knows best.

[NooralHaya]

beautifully said mashaAllah =)

[Rabi'ya]

The point is one to learn

Listen only to Allah....He is the only authority over us...As long as we follow what He has commanded then we will be ok, inshaAllah.

KEEP THAT HIJAB ON!!!! Any suffering we go through on this earth Allah will reward us inshaAllah in the next :D

Wsalaam

Rabi'ya:rose:

[Muezzin]

:sl:

Okay, he is clearly saying hijab now. I understand his reasoning, but I don't agree with his conclusion. I agree with those who wish to keep their hijab.

:w:

[S_87]

:sl:

we should be more stircter and promote islam more not take off the hijab

hmph

[Ummu Amatullah]

:brother: root sure the clerk looks at her,but you only could have one look.First look is for you then the second look is for the devil.
Are their any :sister: that took off their hijaabs? :sister: Nooral Haya sensing you're :mad:. :sorry:!!!

[Nastain]

Assalamualaikum.
He who submit to Allah and face the frowned by people, Jannah is the reward.
He who submit to people in the Anger of ALLAH, his fate will be throwned in the hand of people.
Wear your Hijab and accept Allah's Grace!

[Navidkhan]

Dear Sister Niqab4life,

Assalamoalaikum wa Rehamtu(A)llahe wabarakatohoo,

I do not agree with Mr. Zaki Badawi, concerning his ruling on the wearing of the Hijab. Despite this, I believe that his ruling is in keeping with the Fiqh and Usul al Fiqh. It is one Scholars opinion and we can disagree with it, however, we should not villify him.

24: 32. And say to the believing women that they restrain their looks and guard their private parts, and that they display not their beauty or their embellishment except that which is apparent thereof, and that they draw their head-coverings over their bosoms, and that they display not their beauty or their embellishment save to their husbands, or to their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or women who are their companions, or those that their right hands possess, or such of male attendants as have no desire for women, or young children who have not yet attained knowledge of the hidden parts of women. And that they strike not their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may become known. And turn ye to ALLAH all together, O believers, that you may prosper.
I was pleased to read your posting about the wearing of the Hijab. I agree that there is an absolute directive given In Sura Ahzab verse 31, that Women should dress modestly and that they should cover their heads and bossoms, in a way that does not show off their Beauty, for the non-Mehram men to ogle at. There is however some difference of opinion amongst the Ulema regarding the covering of the face.
Draawing of the head-coverings “over their bossoms”, does not necessarily have to result in covering of the face. If the “shawl” of “Chadar” type hijab is drawn across the bossom from the side, it does not necessarily have to cover the face.

Some Scholars, are however of the opinion that the face should be covered. My own late Mother (may Allah bless her and grant her a lofty station in paradise) used to wear the full Pakistani style Burqa (not the shuttle-cock of the in the Afghan Fashion, but one with a separate Niqab. She used to draw the niqab over her forehead and used to cover her mouth and chin with another part of the niqab. Only leaving her eyes uncovered. Alhamdoli(A)llah my Wife and daughters are all Hajibas but they do not cover their faces. My daughters have followed the example of my wife. (may Allah grant her ample reward).

The true Haya or modesty does not come from wearing a hijab or Burqa. In the Holy Quran both believing men and believing women are instructed to safeguard their piety. This applies as much to the Men as it does for the women.

24: 31. Say to the believing men that they restrain their looks and guard their private parts. That is purer for them. Surely, ALLAH is Well Aware of what they do.

It is important that both men and women should follow the instructions of the Holy quran. We Muslim men usually apply the Shariah strictly to the women and get away with lots of things ourselves. This paradox and double standards in Muslim society has to be rooted out.

Wassalam

Navidul Haq Khan

[F.Y.]

Salaams sisters and brothers
Although i might understand that The Good Doctor is asking us to do this to prevent possible attacks against us, I won't do it. I won't, i tell you! Even in Oz, people lookin at me weird sometimes - but I WILL wear it!!
Peace to all.