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barney
03-26-2007, 11:20 PM
Hi

Iran needs nuclear power for peaceful purposes. They dont want a bomb and will only use the technology for peace.

It's sitting on a bathtub of oil.

I dont get it.
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Woodrow
03-27-2007, 03:28 AM
Crude oil is really quite nasty and useless stuff. It is what can be done with it after it is refined that makes it useful. Most of the oil producing countries have neither the technology nor the equipment to refine the oil into useful products so they depend on selling the oil to provide income that they can use to produce energy.

The world of oil, refineries and sales is very complex and requires a small army of businesses from around the world to make it work.

Although on the surface oil refining appears to be a simple process, a refinery is a pretty large facility and requires a huge amount of steel to build. The oil rich companies have no domestic steel in any quantity.

another problem the portion of the refinery that breaks the oil down into assorted light weight benzene chain molecules (the stuff that makes gasoline) requires a catalytic cracking still. the catalyst used is platinum. One company owns 90% of the worlds mined platinum. that is UOP an international company that designs or has designed nearly all of the worlds refineries. The companies that have built most of the refineries are Bechtel, Kellogg and procon. again multi national companies. Procon is a wholly owned subsidiary of UOP. The majority of the worlds oil is bought by the 7 giant oil companies, again multi-national companies.

So in my round about way of saying things the oil in the ground in Iran is of little value to Iran unless they can find a buyer for it.
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mahdisoldier19
03-27-2007, 03:35 AM
Wow and i thought Kellogg was just a cereal brand!
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Woodrow
03-27-2007, 03:44 AM
Originally Posted by mahdisoldier19
Wow and i thought Kellogg was just a cereal brand!
OOOPs I should have specified it is MW Kellogg that is the construction people. Not related to the cereal people.


http://www.mwkl.co.uk/
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Keltoi
03-27-2007, 04:09 AM
This is a fairly interesting perspective on Iran's energy policy.

http://www.iranian.ws/cgi-bin/iran_n...ew.cgi/8/14955
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barney
03-27-2007, 05:04 AM
Meh...Making a Oil refinery is a hell of a lot easier than making a nuclear power plant. If Platinum is hard to get hold of ...try uranium. You need a little bit more steel for a Nuke station than a oil station.

I'm not saying to produce their own refinerys wouldnt be hard...but it's not the same as enriching heavy metals.

Also...why wouldnt they just send the oil off to be refined like anyone else?
Also...If they dont want a bomb...why not just stop at a light water reactor?

When you throw in Mahmudinarjads rantings you can really picture him as a guy whose going to use it all peacefully.
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guyabano
03-27-2007, 07:37 AM
Originally Posted by barney
Hi

Iran needs nuclear power for peaceful purposes. They dont want a bomb and will only use the technology for peace.

I dont get it.
and yeah, and my Name is Bond,...James Bond !
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IbnAbdulHakim
03-27-2007, 09:34 AM
Originally Posted by mahdisoldier19
Wow and i thought Kellogg was just a cereal brand!
lol ;D


interesting stuff uncle :)
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akulion
03-27-2007, 09:47 AM
Even if Iran wanted Nuclear weapons, what gives the west the right to dictate who develops what?

Its like saying I can have a gun but you cant because you will shoot someone lol
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Keltoi
03-27-2007, 12:34 PM
Originally Posted by akulion
Even if Iran wanted Nuclear weapons, what gives the west the right to dictate who develops what?

Its like saying I can have a gun but you cant because you will shoot someone lol
The danger with any nation developing nuclear weapons is proliferation. Iran hasn't shown itself to be a responsible party when the proliferation of weapons comes up.
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AvarAllahNoor
03-27-2007, 12:42 PM
They only want what we have. Simple.
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Keltoi
03-27-2007, 12:48 PM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
They only want what we have. Simple.
So it doesn't matter what a nation's history of WMD proliferation is? Everyone should have it regardless of their ability or will to proliferate this technology to other less than stable nations, like North Korea?
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AvarAllahNoor
03-27-2007, 12:54 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
So it doesn't matter what a nation's history of WMD proliferation is? Everyone should have it regardless of their ability or will to proliferate this technology to other less than stable nations, like North Korea?
Name me the nation who has used it, tell me??
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Keltoi
03-27-2007, 12:59 PM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Name me the nation who has used it, tell me??
We both know the answer to that question(I think), but that same nation hasn't used them since, not even in Vietnam. The point is proliferation, which is the selling of nuclear weapons and technology to any who pay.
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AvarAllahNoor
03-27-2007, 01:03 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
We both know the answer to that question(I think), but that same nation hasn't used them since, not even in Vietnam. The point is proliferation, which is the selling of nuclear weapons and technology to any who pay.
It's the right of a sovereign nation. Or let the US/UK give up theirs. (although I don't think they should) but allow other nations the same right. I don't like people who dictate.
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Keltoi
03-27-2007, 01:10 PM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
It's the right of a sovereign nation. Or let the US/UK give up theirs. (although I don't think they shoul) but allow other nation the same right. I don't like people who dictate.
It's the right of a sovereign nation? You seem to forget that Iran signed the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, which agreed to allow inspections to make sure they weren't seeking nuclear weapons technology. They started a secret nuclear weapons program anyway. As a member of the U.N., Iran has certain obligations, especially when it signs a treaty.
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AvarAllahNoor
03-27-2007, 01:14 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
It's the right of a sovereign nation? You seem to forget that Iran signed the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, which agreed to allow inspections to make sure they weren't seeking nuclear weapons technology. They started a secret nuclear weapons program anyway. As a member of the U.N., Iran has certain obligations, especially when it signs a treaty.
I used to think Iranians are hotheads who can't be trusted with nuclear weapons whereas we, on the contrary, are ''level-headed and responsible'' people. - They'll have them. :D
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Keltoi
03-27-2007, 01:16 PM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
I used to think Iranians are hotheads who can't be trusted with nuclear weapons whereas we, on the contrary, are ''level-headed and responsible'' people. - They'll have them. :D
I'm having a hard time figuring out why that makes you happy. Iran has sold and bought weapons from North Korea. I'm not talking guns, I'm talking missile technology. Why should the international community expect Iran to be responsible and level-headed when they have nuclear weapons?
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AvarAllahNoor
03-27-2007, 01:27 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
I'm having a hard time figuring out why that makes you happy. Iran has sold and bought weapons from North Korea. I'm not talking guns, I'm talking missile technology. Why should the international community expect Iran to be responsible and level-headed when they have nuclear weapons?
US/UK fund EVERY conflict going on this planet so spare me the crap please.
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Keltoi
03-27-2007, 01:28 PM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
US/UK fund EVERY conflict going on this planet so spare me the crap please.
Hmmm, they fund every conflict on the planet...I suppose you have proof of this? Oh wait..I forgot, it is up to me to prove that your claim isn't true. :enough!:
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AvarAllahNoor
03-27-2007, 01:33 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Hmmm, they fund every conflict on the planet...I suppose you have proof of this? Oh wait..I forgot, it is up to me to prove that your claim isn't true. :enough!:
You know it's true, yet you only believe what your narrow mind allows you to.:omg:
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akulion
03-27-2007, 02:50 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
The danger with any nation developing nuclear weapons is proliferation. Iran hasn't shown itself to be a responsible party when the proliferation of weapons comes up.
Even the US stole its scientists and technology for nuclear program from Germany.

So really its back to basics, what makes the west so superior? Dont all humans have the same right?

So I say every nation on this Earth has the right to develop any thing they want to develop.
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MTAFFI
03-27-2007, 02:54 PM
Originally Posted by akulion
Even the US stole its scientists and technology for nuclear program from Germany.

So really its back to basics, what makes the west so superior? Dont all humans have the same right?

So I say every nation on this Earth has the right to develop any thing they want to develop.
So should every nation then be allowed to use what they develop however they want?
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AvarAllahNoor
03-27-2007, 02:59 PM
Originally Posted by MTAFFI
So should every nation then be allowed to use what they develop however they want?
US have. so nit pick there.
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Woodrow
03-27-2007, 03:08 PM
Originally Posted by akulion
Even the US stole its scientists and technology for nuclear program from Germany.

So really its back to basics, what makes the west so superior? Dont all humans have the same right?

So I say every nation on this Earth has the right to develop any thing they want to develop.
The difficulty is that the era of nations is coming to an end. Clear defined physical boundaries are not longer the limits of what a country does. The impact of every development no longer affects just what is done within a countries walls. True if we develop things that will not extend beyond our own borders there is no reason for anybody to curtail it. However, now anything anybody does is going to reason of concern to every other person on earth.

I'm opposed to nuclear energy for all nations so my concern about Iran's powers stations is very biased. But, I feel that if the world has agreed that some nations can have it, then it should be that all can. However, I also believe that all nations should be subject to tight controls as to how they use it and that there needs to be international inspection of all nuclear countries to verify that it is being used properly. Of course I have no idea as to how that could be effectively done.
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noodles
03-27-2007, 03:31 PM
In my limited way of thinking, ;D I think every country with nuclear missiles should aim it into space and blast it off. Our galaxy is large and we wouldn't have to deal with the aftermath :X
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MTAFFI
03-27-2007, 03:33 PM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
US have. so nit pick there.
So should we also be able to use it without restriction however we want? Should there not be any rules regarding the disposal of the after product? If you cant afford to feed your own people or at the very least create a stable economy and healthy living enviroment for even 95% of your people, then should you at the same time be allowed to produce an energy so powerful it could destroy the entire earth?
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AvarAllahNoor
03-27-2007, 03:40 PM
Originally Posted by MTAFFI
So should we also be able to use it without restriction however we want? Should there not be any rules regarding the disposal of the after product? If you cant afford to feed your own people or at the very least create a stable economy and healthy living enviroment for even 95% of your people, then should you at the same time be allowed to produce an energy so powerful it could destroy the entire earth?
Well the earth weill be destroyed just as it was created but that will be Gods doing not ours.

Yes they should, BUT look at UK and US, how much do we spend on arms etc? Yet poverty is still not eradicated just look at Orleans. So what you say has a point to an extent. But pracitice what you preach comes to mind.

Iran should not be made to do anything by other countries. And you may notice the west all think they are right, yet all others are wrong. Israel/US/UK are all powers trying to bully others into their way of thinking. It won't be tolerated.
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mahdisoldier19
03-27-2007, 04:01 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Hmmm, they fund every conflict on the planet...I suppose you have proof of this? Oh wait..I forgot, it is up to me to prove that your claim isn't true. :enough!:
Which country was the only in the World to use WMDS To this day. USA! Like they say, USA is always number 1!
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wilberhum
03-27-2007, 04:02 PM
I think we should sell nukes on ebay. That way everyone could have one. :?
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mahdisoldier19
03-27-2007, 04:05 PM
Yeah but who has the will to use one. Dont say Osama bin laden, remember he is a Religious Extremist and follows the Extremist ways of Islam. Therefore if he is so hardcore with the religion, he will follow its basic principals by not murdering Mass Amounts of innocent civilians, this OPINION of mine is provided the fact that there is no HARD Evidence linking him to 9/11.
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wilberhum
03-27-2007, 04:10 PM
Originally Posted by mahdisoldier19
this OPINION of mine is provided the fact that there is no HARD Evidence linking him to 9/11.
A confession is not evidence? Oh well, we all know it was the Jews with the help of the CIA. :? :?
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Woodrow
03-27-2007, 04:15 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
I think we should sell nukes on ebay. That way everyone could have one. :?

It would be one way the US could get rid of the stock pile it has no idea of how to dispose of. They are harder to get rid of than a visiting Mother-in-Law.

Sometimes I think we should just give a few hundred to every country that thinks they want them. Let them waste their budget for the maintenance of them.
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AvarAllahNoor
03-27-2007, 04:18 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
I think we should sell nukes on ebay. That way everyone could have one. :?
:statisfie I've put my bid in.
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MTAFFI
03-27-2007, 04:19 PM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Well the earth weill be destroyed just as it was created but that will be Gods doing not ours.

Perhaps that is how it should be, but that doesnt mean that if someone wanted to they couldnt blow the world up, I mean if Bush got on this site and read the things said about him and then took another look at the public opinion polls, who knows he might just do it...lol... j/k

Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Yes they should, BUT look at UK and US, how much do we spend on arms etc? Yet poverty is still not eradicated just look at Orleans. So what you say has a point to an extent. But pracitice what you preach comes to mind.
The US can afford to spend money on arms its economy and people are better off than most if not all of the rest of the world. New Orleans was a tragedy, but do not forget the majority of those people were living in government housing, so really they didnt lose anything, the government lost everything down there. Also most of those people have new homes and lives now, think if that happened in Iran, or many other countries. Also keep in mind, poverty will never be eradicated, there will always be people who simply dont want to work, or work low level jobs, the problem Iran has is there is to many low paying jobs whereas the average US income is around $30,000.00 right now I think. (feel free to ream me if I am wrong)
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
[
Iran should not be made to do anything by other countries. And you may notice the west all think they are right, yet all others are wrong. Israel/US/UK are all powers trying to bully others into their way of thinking. It won't be tolerated.
The west in this case is right, I admit in many cases the West has been wrong but no country or person is perfect. Iran with nuclear weapons is a huge problem, and would inevitably lead to serious conflict and possibly nuclear war. Rather than worrying about who is being "bullied" I worry about what the world will be like for my children when they grow up.

Personally I think Iran has every right to produce nuclear power, however their actions, talk, refusal to allow cameras in key places, refusals to inspectors, etc lead myself and many others to believe there endeavor is not peaceful in nature. If they cant be responsible for such a thing then they should be prevented from obtaining it, not because the west says so or because they are Muslim, or because anyone wants to prevent them from technological advances, but because everyone has to live on Earth and they should not be allowed the means of destroying it or any part of it.
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AvarAllahNoor
03-27-2007, 04:25 PM
Originally Posted by MTAFFI
Personally I think Iran has every right to produce nuclear power, however their actions, talk, refusal to allow cameras in key places, refusals to inspectors, etc lead myself and many others to believe there endeavor is not peaceful in nature. If they cant be responsible for such a thing then they should be prevented from obtaining it, not because the west says so or because they are Muslim, or because anyone wants to prevent them from technological advances, but because everyone has to live on Earth and they should not be allowed the means of destroying it or any part of it.
I agree with this.

What is the solutiom in your view?
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Trumble
03-27-2007, 04:50 PM
Originally Posted by MTAFFI
Personally I think Iran has every right to produce nuclear power, however their actions, talk, refusal to allow cameras in key places, refusals to inspectors, etc lead myself and many others to believe there endeavor is not peaceful in nature.
Agreed, also. The simple fact, which the Iranians choose to ignore, is that there is no problem whatsoever in operating nuclear power stations if the country (having previously signed the non-proliferation treaty) concerned agrees to and co-operates with the inspections that ensure the facilities are not used to produce weapons. Brazil is a good example. As I understand it Malaysia was also proceeding in that fashion until the discovery of new oil reserves made a nuclear program unnecessary (no doubt any Malaysians will correct me if I'm wrong.) Bangladesh, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco and Indonesia are all building research reactors with the ultimate aim of producing electricity. All muslim nations, yet no talk of sanctions there! Spot the difference! You got it. They don't want bombs, and agreed to inspections.

If Iran, as it claims, has no intention of constructing nuclear weapons there is no reason whatsoever not to agree to IAEA inspections. A continued refusal can indicate only one possible conclusion, which, amazingly, is the one everybody on the Security Council has come to, hence the sanctions. They want nuclear weapons. There may, or may not be, reasons and a valid debate as to whether they should have them or not, but nobody should fool themselves as regard to Iranian intent. The case is closed.

The solution, of course, is obvious. NOBODY should have nuclear weapons, the US, UK, China, Israel, Iran, Al Qaeda, anybody. The only constructive contributions to the nuclear debate are geared towards that objective, and that objective only. The rest achieve nothing. If they exist in the world, sooner or later somebody will use them.
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MTAFFI
03-27-2007, 05:02 PM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
I agree with this.

What is the solutiom in your view?
I was going to answer but it seems trumble summed it up pretty well, I think the only solution would be for Iran to stop enrichment and allow inspectors in, allow cameras wherever necessary, gain the trust of the world and then pursue nuclear powered electricity. They can continue on the track they are on however I think Ahmadinejad said it best right now they are a runaway train without brakes, this will inevitably lead to a conflict. Let just hope they wise up and do the right thing, if they arent pursuing nuclear weapons it shouldnt even be an issue.
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AvarAllahNoor
03-27-2007, 05:15 PM
Originally Posted by MTAFFI
I was going to answer but it seems trumble summed it up pretty well, I think the only solution would be for Iran to stop enrichment and allow inspectors in, allow cameras wherever necessary, gain the trust of the world and then pursue nuclear powered electricity. They can continue on the track they are on however I think Ahmadinejad said it best right now they are a runaway train without brakes, this will inevitably lead to a conflict. Let just hope they wise up and do the right thing, if they arent pursuing nuclear weapons it shouldnt even be an issue.
I think they are. But why should it all come to halt because we say so? It's their perogative. They are being secretive because we're telling them to stop because we don't like it. Only solution is, US/UK stop demanding and let them continue. And making sure they all work together rather than against. :statisfie
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wilberhum
03-27-2007, 05:18 PM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
I think they are. But why should it all come to halt because we say so? It's their perogative. They are being secretive because we're telling them to stop because we don't like it. Only solution is, US/UK stop demanding and let them continue. And making sure they all work together rather than against. :statisfie
US/UK stop demanding? How about the UN? Oh I forgot the US/UK own the UN. How about France and the others? Or is it just a case all your hate is aimed at the US/UK?
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AvarAllahNoor
03-27-2007, 05:26 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
US/UK stop demanding? How about the UN? Oh I forgot the US/UK own the UN. How about France and the others? Or is it just a case all your hate is aimed at the US/UK?
The UN couldn't stop an illegal invasion by the US/UK that was the day they lost all credibilty (as I said perviously) They are nothing but corrupt. Nobody pays any attention, they are a few cretins dressed in suits and ties. I have said my piece and I am infallible!
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wilberhum
03-27-2007, 05:30 PM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
The UN couldn't stop an illegal invasion by the US/UK that was the day they lost all credibilty (as I said perviously) They are nothing but corrupt. Nobody pays any attention, they are a few cretins dressed in suits and ties. I have said my piece and I am infallible!
So, oh great mind, what is the solution? :?

If you don't have a better idea, you have nothing. :skeleton:
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Trumble
03-27-2007, 05:34 PM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
I think they are. But why should it all come to halt because we say so? It's their perogative. They are being secretive because we're telling them to stop because we don't like it. Only solution is, US/UK stop demanding and let them continue. And making sure they all work together rather than against. :statisfie
The countries who voted in favour of sanctions (unanimously) were China, France, United States, United Kingdom, Russia, Belgium, Italy, Qatar, Congo, Panama, Slovakia, Ghana, Peru, South Africa and Indonesia. I'm not sure where this "US/UK" bit comes from.

Actually, as to "letting them continue" the ball is pretty much in the Russians' court rather than US and UK. It was Russian technology and (largely) Russian manpower being used to build the reactor and when they (to all intents and purposes) pulled out, the whole thing ground to a halt. I suspect that may actually have come as something of a shock to whichever sector of the Iranian political set-up was dictating policy; I don't think they even knew the whole thing was essentially a Russian project not a home-grown Iranian one.
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AvarAllahNoor
03-27-2007, 05:39 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
So, oh great mind, what is the solution? :?

If you don't have a better idea, you have nothing. :skeleton:
I've said all I needed too in my last post. THAT is the solution.
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Woodrow
03-27-2007, 05:42 PM
At the moment it appears that this may turn out to be a very moot question. For those that have not heard yet. Russia has reneged on the deal to support Iran. Iran may be stuck with a big expensive steel structure that has no use.

Mixed signals on Russia-Iran uranium deal
posted Apr 22, 12:54 PM

According to Reuters, Iranian state radio has announced a basic deal to enrich uranium in a joint venture in Russia. Details were still unresolved, but Iran’s ambassador to the IAEA confirmed the agreement, despite the reported uncooperative attitude of Tehran.

ITAR-Tass, the official news agency of Russia, has reported that Oleg Ozerov, deputy director of the Foreign Ministry’s Middle East and North Africa Department, expressed regret over the failure to reach a final agreement with Iran on a compromise proposal to have the Iranian uranium enrichment program operate on Russian territory.
Souce: http://www.managing-the-atom.org/ira...n-uranium-deal

Russia, Iran End Talks Without Nuclear Deal
Tehran Urged to Resume Moratorium

By Peter Finn
Washington Post Foreign Service
Thursday, March 2, 2006; Page A15

MOSCOW, March 1 -- Talks between Russia and Iran on a proposal to enrich uranium on Russian soil for Iran's nuclear industry ended inconclusively Wednesday night. Both sides said discussions would continue but couldn't say when.

Iranian officials repeated earlier statements that they generally accepted the Russian proposal but still insist on the right to conduct some enrichment in Iran.
Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...030102289.html
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wilberhum
03-27-2007, 05:42 PM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
I've said all I needed too in my last post. THAT is the solution.
Wow, so easy. We should make you king of the world. :D
Gee, I wish I had all the answers. :skeleton:
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AvarAllahNoor
03-27-2007, 05:45 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Wow, so easy. We should make you king of the world. :D
Gee, I wish I had all the answers. :skeleton:
Oi don't mock. Great things come in small packages. :D :D
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noodles
03-27-2007, 06:00 PM
Alright, lets say that we DO get Iran to stop its nuclear enrichment program. What then is stopping US from just blasting its way into Iran and taking all it's oil?

As most of you know, Hiroshima is still a mount of black soot, and the weapon of mass destructions still haven't been found in Iraq yet. Moreover, Iraq is in more conflict than when Saddam was in power (don't you dare state otherwise)

I'd say it'd be fair if Iran was made to stop its Nuclear enrichment program, then U.S[and all countries with nuclear missles] should be made to shoot it's missiles off into space.

Fair?
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MTAFFI
03-27-2007, 06:12 PM
Originally Posted by noodles
Alright, lets say that we DO get Iran to stop its nuclear enrichment program. What then is stopping US from just blasting its way into Iran and taking all it's oil?

As most of you know, Hiroshima is still a mount of black soot, and the weapon of mass destructions still haven't been found in Iraq yet. Moreover, Iraq is in more conflict than when Saddam was in power (don't you dare state otherwise)

I'd say it'd be fair if Iran was made to stop its Nuclear enrichment program, then U.S[and all countries with nuclear missles] should be made to shoot it's missiles off into space.

Fair?
fair? Perhaps, but that is not going to happen, the thing is no one is asking Iran to indefinitely suspend its nuclear ambitions, they are simply asked to stop for a period of time to allow investigators to look at the facilities, install some cameras, and to allow the rest of the world to be comfortable with Iran having this type of power. Iran has no credibility has isnt regarded as a peaceful nation, so why would anyone want them to obtain this type of power? They need to show respect and good intentions and gain the trust of the world, and then they could easily produce nuclear power without any issues. It is repeated over and over "Why can the US have it and Iran cant?" Well the answer is simple, the US invented it, the world has seen the capabilities of it and has decided that extreme discretion is necessary to keep the world in one peice, it is not the west against Iran, it is anyone who values the ground they stand on against Iran. All they have to do is make a gesture, cooperate a little, let people see first hand that it is for peaceful purposes and they could have the power, they are causing this controversy and problems for themselves, because their government is arrogant and belligerent.
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AvarAllahNoor
03-27-2007, 06:23 PM
''the US invented it''

Mate didn' they steal it off the Germans?
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noodles
03-27-2007, 06:27 PM
Alright, you claim no one is asking Iran to suspend is Nuclear programs. Lets say they WERE building nuclear weapons, will it not mean that another arms race will start?

I have 20 nuclear missiles and you have 2, so you must build more to keep your country safe. Isn't that right? So these cameras CAN be used as surveillance couldn't they? Isn't that what happened in the Cold War?

(Keep in mind, I'm making valid assumptions here)
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Woodrow
03-27-2007, 06:40 PM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
''the US invented it''

Mate didn' they steal it off the Germans?
It was the work of German Scientists, however the work was done in the US. The Scientists that had done most of the work on Nuclear energy were Jewish and had escaped from Germany when Hitler came into power.

Because of his hatred of Jews, many of Germanys scientists were forced to come to America. Their contributions led to the field of nuclear development in the US and the contributions of American scientists carried the early work to were it now is.

A brief early history can be found here:

http://nova.nuc.umr.edu/nuclear_fact...y/history.html

Russia got into the field in the 1950s when some US scientists sold secrets to them. Through out the 50s and 60s Nuclear power was basicaly only a Russian and American concern. The selling of reactors to other nations brought about the proliferation of it.
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MTAFFI
03-27-2007, 06:53 PM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
''the US invented it''

Mate didn' they steal it off the Germans?
No we just got some of them there good ole' german scientists! We then gave them the financing, instruments and some data to construct such a beast
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MTAFFI
03-27-2007, 06:57 PM
Originally Posted by noodles
Alright, you claim no one is asking Iran to suspend is Nuclear programs. Lets say they WERE building nuclear weapons, will it not mean that another arms race will start?

I have 20 nuclear missiles and you have 2, so you must build more to keep your country safe. Isn't that right? So these cameras CAN be used as surveillance couldn't they? Isn't that what happened in the Cold War?

(Keep in mind, I'm making valid assumptions here)
I think you misunderstood some of my post, I am not saying no one is asking Iran to suspend nuclear programs, I am saying no one is asking them to indefinitely suspend them. As for the rest of your post I am not sure what you are getting at, Iran is geared toward production of nuclear weapons, this wont start an arms race though. If Iran creates a nuclear weapon they will almost surely be attacked and not just by the US I wouldnt think. The cold war was a good bit different than what is going on today, the US couldnt be trumped in terms of nuclear power by a country like Iran, the maintenance alone would bankrupt their country.
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Cognescenti
03-28-2007, 01:25 AM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
''the US invented it''

Mate didn' they steal it off the Germans?
Nope. 2 Germans accidentally discovered fission in 1938 (non Jews by the way). An Austrian Jew deduced it was fission, but the Germans never got anywhere close to a practical bomb or even a controlled chain reaction.

Fermi (Italian) and Szilard (Hungarian Jew, I think) had the first chain reaction in Chicago. Seeborg (at Berkely) discovered plutonium. The project bigshots for the bomb design and assembly were (Oppenheimer (American) and Teller (Hungarian Jew) and others.


What we stole from the Germans was the rocket technology. :D
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Woodrow
03-28-2007, 02:30 AM
Originally Posted by Cognescenti
Nope. 2 Germans accidentally discovered fission in 1938 (non Jews by the way). An Austrian Jew deduced it was fission, but the Germans never got anywhere close to a practical bomb or even a controlled chain reaction.

Fermi (Italian) and Szilard (Hungarian Jew, I think) had the first chain reaction in Chicago. Seeborg (at Berkely) discovered plutonium. The project bigshots for the bomb design and assembly were (Oppenheimer (American) and Teller (Hungarian Jew) and others.


What we stole from the Germans was the rocket technology. :D
We did not steal it, it was simply an incentive program reward we gave to Werner Von Braun
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AvarAllahNoor
03-28-2007, 03:22 AM
Originally Posted by Cognescenti


What we stole from the Germans was the rocket technology. :D
Thieeeeeeeeves!! :thumbs_up
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barney
03-28-2007, 07:48 AM
Slight problem with dinnerjackets threats to "wipe israel off the map".
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rebelishaulman
03-28-2007, 10:03 AM
Alright, lets say that we DO get Iran to stop its nuclear enrichment program. What then is stopping US from just blasting its way into Iran and taking all it's oil?
Its own citizens do not want to do so. By the way, if Iran stops making this energy and China and Russia have said they will help make them peaceful ones, but Iran says no... why is that? You have to be pretty naive to not understand what is happening
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barney
04-03-2007, 04:58 AM
Originally Posted by noodles
As most of you know, Hiroshima is still a mount of black soot




Aye.

Nagasaki too...looking really ropey.
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Keltoi
04-03-2007, 12:18 PM
lol..good one Barney. I thought about doing that myself but you beat me to it.
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noodles
04-03-2007, 05:01 PM
Eep, I guess I gotta go read more before joining into anything :blind: :X

I don't supposed I can take back that comment can I? :)

Anyway....:D *Runs and hides under a blanket*
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snakelegs
04-04-2007, 02:32 AM
as far as i know, israel has never signed or been pressured to sign the non-proliferation treaty. i am not even sure if the u.s. has or not.
i would support a nuke-free middle east.
better yet a nuke-free world!
Reply

Keltoi
04-04-2007, 02:56 AM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
as far as i know, israel has never signed or been pressured to sign the non-proliferation treaty. i am not even sure if the u.s. has or not.
i would support a nuke-free middle east.
better yet a nuke-free world!
Nice thought.
Reply

barney
04-04-2007, 03:41 AM
Nuke free world would be great. I wish some things could be uninvented, but they cant.
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