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doodlebug
04-02-2007, 07:40 PM
Assalam alaykum folks,

Could someone please tell me if it is written down that it is required to pray in Arabic? Someone on another forum is saying that because it is not Sharia that the prayers need to be in Arabic that it is definitely not required.

Thanks!
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- Qatada -
04-02-2007, 07:55 PM
wa alykum assalaam.


I hope the prayers are going well for you sister. Allaah knows best, but for any act of worship to be accepted - it has to be according to how the Prophet peace be upon him performed that act of worship, and it has to be sincerely for the sake of Allaah alone.

We also know that Qur'an cannot be Qur'an unless it is in the arabic tongue, anything in another language is simply a translation. So reading a translation won't get you the reward of reciting Qur'an. A believer may get rewarded for understanding the Qur'an [by reading the translation] - but reciting the Qur'an in arabic has 10 rewards for each letter i.e. the letters Alif Laam Meem = 30 rewards, because there are 3 letters.


The way of the prophet was to recite Qur'an in arabic, and the muslims who came from Persia, Syria etc. all over the muslim world learnt arabic in order to recite Qur'an. So it may be a requirement for it to be accepted. Allaah knows best.
Reply

.:Umniyah:.
04-02-2007, 07:57 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
wa alykum assalaam.


I hope the prayers are going well for you sister. Allaah knows best, but for any act of worship to be accepted - it has to be according to how the Prophet peace be upon him performed that act of worship, and it has to be sincerely for the sake of Allaah alone.

We also know that Qur'an cannot be Qur'an unless it is in the arabic tongue, anything in another language is simply a translation. So reading a translation won't get you the reward of reciting Qur'an. A believer may get rewarded for understanding the Qur'an [by reading the translation] - but reciting the Qur'an in arabic has 10 rewards for each letter i.e. the letters Alif Laam Meem = 30 rewards, because there are 3 letters.
Adding on to this:

The prophet Sallallahu alaihi wa salaam said " Pray as you have seen me pray" and its more than obvious that he prayed in arabi.

And Allah knows best.

:w:
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doodlebug
04-02-2007, 07:59 PM
So then why do people in Iran pray in Farsi?
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- Qatada -
04-02-2007, 08:02 PM
:salamext:


Allaah knows best, maybe because there are alot of shi'a there? And they don't all agree to our collections of hadith i think. They have their own versions.
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FatimaAsSideqah
04-02-2007, 08:03 PM
:sl: Sister of Islam..

Are you know Arabic language? If yes, you can do this if you want to because most of Muslims who been prayer with recite of Arabic and also Holy Quran is pure language of Arabic..it is original language.

Also Prophet of Allah (PBUH) been used to recite Arabic prayer.

:w:

Sister of Islam
Reply

chacha_jalebi
04-02-2007, 08:03 PM
^ask them:p

its sunnah to pray in arabic wen u do your own dua you can do it in a diff language, if it suits you:D
Reply

doodlebug
04-02-2007, 09:32 PM
Originally Posted by RighteousLady
:sl: Sister of Islam..

Are you know Arabic language? If yes, you can do this if you want to because most of Muslims who been prayer with recite of Arabic and also Holy Quran is pure language of Arabic..it is original language.

Also Prophet of Allah (PBUH) been used to recite Arabic prayer.

:w:

Sister of Islam

walaykum salam

I'm not sure what you said here but I do know my salat in Arabic. The purpose for my question was to get some solid proof that it is supposed to be recited in Arabic and not in one's native tongue.
Reply

azim
04-02-2007, 09:37 PM
Asalaamu alaykum.

Are we talking about salah or dua? Both can be translated as prayer in English so we need to know precisely which we are talking about.
Reply

doodlebug
04-02-2007, 10:17 PM
Originally Posted by azim
Asalaamu alaykum.

Are we talking about salah or dua? Both can be translated as prayer in English so we need to know precisely which we are talking about.
Salah.
Reply

Ra`eesah
04-02-2007, 10:48 PM
Assalamu’Alaykum


The following is from islamqa.com. I just summirzed it. The link is on the bottom for source and reference.


There are 2 things regarding this issue:
  • Reciting the Adhkar (i.e Allahu Akbar) during Salaah in another language.
  • Reading the Quran during Salaah in another language.
  • As for saying the adhkar during salaah in another language, most of the Fuqaha have said” if a non-arab speaker is able to say them then he can not say them in any other language other then Arabic. However if this non-arab speaker is not able to pronounce them in Arabic then it is OK for him to say them in his own language after it has been correctly translated. Takbeer is a rememberence of Allaah and because Allaah can be remembered in any language so therefore it any other language other then Arabic in this case is an alternative. However, there is a controversy regarding if all the adhkar of salaah could be in another language examples like the dua of qonut and tashahud and tasbeehat.
  • Majority of the scholars say that readingthe quran in any other language besides Arabic during the Sallaah is not permissible. The proof they use for this is the ayah in the Quran.
“Verily, We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur’aan…” [Yoosuf 12:2]

Moreover, the Qur’aan is a miracle in its wording and its meaning; if it is changed, this is no longer the case, and it is no longer Qur’aan but an interpretation (tafseer). (al-Mawsoo’ah al-Fiqhiyyah, part 5: A’jami).



According to Ibn Qudaamah (Rahimahullaah) :

“Section: It is not right to read it in any language other than Arabic, or to substitute other words in Arabic, whether the person can read it well in Arabic or not, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “…an Arabic Qur’aan …’ [Yoosuf 12:2] and ‘In the plain Arabic language’ [al-Shu’ara’ 26:195]. The Qur’aan is a miracle in both its wording and its meaning, but if it is changed this is no longer the case, it is not Qur’aan or anything like it. It is only an interpretation (tafseer), and if the interpretation were like the Qur’aan itself, they would not be unable to meet the challenge of producing a soorah like it.”



“If a person cannot read well in Arabic, he has to learn. If he does not learn when he is able to, his prayers are not valid. If he is not able, or he fears that he does not have time to learn before the time for the next prayer is over, and he knows one aayah of al-Faatihah, he should repeat it seven times… If he can recite more than that, he should repeat it as much as he needs to make his recitation equivalent to the length of Soorat al-Fatihah, or he could make it up by reciting other aayaat. If he knows some aayaat he does not have to repeat, he could recite another aayah instead, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) commanded the one who could not recite Qur’aan well to say ‘Al-Hamdu Lillaah (Praise be to Allaah)’ and other phrases, which is part of an aayah, but he did not command him to repeat it. If he cannot do anything, but he knows some of the Qur’aan by heart, he should recite whatever he can, and nothing else will do, because of the report narrated by Abu Dawood from Rifaa’ah ibn Raafi’, who said that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “When you get up to pray, if you know some Qur’aan, recite it, otherwise say al-hamdu Lillaah (praise be to Allaah), and La ilaaha ill-Allaah (there is no god but Allaah), and Allaahu akbar (Allaah is Most Great).” This is more like Qur’aan, and is more appropriate (than any other words). He should also recite as much as he needs to make it equivalent in length to Soorat al-Faatihah. If he cannot recite anything of the Qur’aan, and cannot learn before it is too late to pray the current prayer, he should say Subhaan Allaah wa’l-hamdu Lillaah wa Laa ilaaha ill-Allaah wa Allaahu akbar wa Laa hawla wa laa quwwata illa Billaah (Glory be to Allaah; praise be to Allaah; there is no god but Allaah; Allaah is Most Great; and there is no strength and no power except with Allaah). Abu Dawood reported that a man came to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said: “I cannot learn anything of the Qur’aan. Teach me something that will suffice me.” He said, “Say Subhaan Allaah wa’l-hamdu Lillaah wa Laa ilaaha ill-Allaah wa Allaahu akbar wa Laa hawla wa laa quwwata illa Billaah.”





source: http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=347...bic%20language
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iqbal_soofi
04-03-2007, 12:12 AM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
wa alykum assalaam.



We also know that Qur'an cannot be Qur'an unless it is in the arabic tongue, anything in another language is simply a translation. So reading a translation won't get you the reward of reciting Qur'an. A believer may get rewarded for understanding the Qur'an [by reading the translation] - but reciting the Qur'an in arabic has 10 rewards for each letter i.e. the letters Alif Laam Meem = 30 rewards, because there are 3 letters.


How do you know that Quran cannot be Quran unless it is in Arabic? Is it written somewhere in Quran?

Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
The way of the prophet was to recite Qur'an in arabic, and the muslims who came from Persia, Syria etc. all over the muslim world learnt arabic in order to recite Qur'an. So it may be a requirement for it to be accepted. Allaah knows best.
Holy prophet recited Qur'n in Arabic because that was the only language he knew. All other Muslims in his time knew only Arabic. Therefore they all recieted Quran in arabic. For a person who is not very well versed in Arabic, it's very difficult to find the correct puropose of the Quran if he is made to read it in Arabic only. But if you prove that it is forbidden to read or understand Quran in any language other than Arabic, then it'd mean that the message of Qu'ran was only for the Arabs.
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*charisma*
04-03-2007, 12:53 AM
Assalamu Alaikum

How do you know that Quran cannot be Quran unless it is in Arabic?
Maybe because it's never been changed from Arabic? Translations are only denotations of the words, possibly some connotation, but its difficult sometimes to go in depth within an ayah when all you have is the translation and not the original script.

Is it written somewhere in Quran?
Yup,

A Book, whereof the verses are explained in detail;- a Qur'an in Arabic, for people who understand;- [41:3]

We have made it a Qur'an in Arabic, that ye may be able to understand (and learn wisdom). [43:3]

However, the Quran is not the Quran because it is in Arabic, rather it is the Quran because of the flexibility and artistic Arabic words used to make it up to give it a deeper meaning and higher status. (i.e. "Iqra" means to read or recite, "sa'a" means time, hour, period..)

Holy prophet recited Qur'n in Arabic because that was the only language he knew. All other Muslims in his time knew only Arabic. Therefore they all recieted Quran in arabic. For a person who is not very well versed in Arabic, it's very difficult to find the correct puropose of the Quran if he is made to read it in Arabic only.
That's why those who find it difficult to recite, get double the rewards. They strive to learn what has been taught and revealed for them to learn.

But if you prove that it is forbidden to read or understand Quran in any language other than Arabic, then it'd mean that the message of Qu'ran was only for the Arabs.
He didn't say that it was forbidden to read or understand it in any language. Rather, he said it should be recited in arabic, the same way it was revealed.

Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in the language) other than Arabic, they would have said: "Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in Arabic and (a Messenger) an Arab?" Say: "It is a Guide and a Healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not, there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes): They are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!" [41:44]

fi aman Allah
w'salaam
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iqbal_soofi
04-03-2007, 01:59 AM
Originally Posted by *charisma*
Assalamu Alaikum



Maybe because it's never been changed from Arabic? Translations are only denotations of the words, possibly some connotation, but its difficult sometimes to go in depth within an ayah when all you have is the translation and not the original script.



Yup,

A Book, whereof the verses are explained in detail;- a Qur'an in Arabic, for people who understand;- [41:3]

We have made it a Qur'an in Arabic, that ye may be able to understand (and learn wisdom). [43:3]

However, the Quran is not the Quran because it is in Arabic, rather it is the Quran because of the flexibility and artistic Arabic words used to make it up to give it a deeper meaning and higher status. (i.e. "Iqra" means to read or recite, "sa'a" means time, hour, period..)



That's why those who find it difficult to recite, get double the rewards. They strive to learn what has been taught and revealed for them to learn.


He didn't say that it was forbidden to read or understand it in any language. Rather, he said it should be recited in arabic, the same way it was revealed.

Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in the language) other than Arabic, they would have said: "Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in Arabic and (a Messenger) an Arab?" Say: "It is a Guide and a Healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not, there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes): They are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!" [41:44]

fi aman Allah
w'salaam


So in the nutshell you mean that Qu'ran is a message for the Arabs to follow and for all others to recite in a language which they're not familiar with only to get the double reward.

And also you mean to say that if it's translated in different languages, then it's not possible to convey all the meaninging truely. Different translators may use different words of phrases of their own languages to translate Quran that could change the meanings of Quran. You sound right. Non Arabs need not worry about what it says. They should only recite it to get the double rewards.
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snakelegs
04-03-2007, 02:05 AM
surely if you, as most muslims, do not understand arabic - it is permitted to read qur'an in your own language, realizing that no translation can be fully accurate?
are there those that forbid this?
Reply

Muslim Woman
04-03-2007, 02:25 AM



I seek refuge in Allah (The One God) from the Satan (devil) the cursed, the rejected

With the name of ALLAH (swt) -The Bestower Of Unlimited Mercy, The Continously Merciful


Assalamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh (May the peace, mercy and blessings of Allah be upon you)

&&


Originally Posted by doodlebug
Assalam alaykum folks,

Could someone please tell me if it is written down that it is required to pray in Arabic? Someone on another forum is saying that because it is not Sharia that the prayers need to be in Arabic that it is definitely not required.

Thanks!

----there is a verse in Quran ( Insha Allah , i will try to find out ) that says , recite from Quran in ur Salat/prayer.

So ,it's a must to recite few lines from Quran in 5 times daily prayers. It's better if u know the meaning but still if u don't the meaning u have to recite verbatim from Quran.

U are allowed to do the supplication/dua in ur mother tongue.



Reply

north_malaysian
04-03-2007, 07:35 AM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
it is permitted to read qur'an in your own language
Arabic is the most beautiful language to recite the Holy Koran.... with the tajweed (rules on how to read it) and tarannum (rythm used to recite it)..

You could shed tears listening to it..... I really love Egyptian recitor, Mustafa Ismail recitation of Sura Al Hajj and Surah Al Rahman..
Reply

snakelegs
04-03-2007, 08:08 AM
i've heard qur'an recitations and would have to agree with you - it is very beautiful.
but there is no reason why a muslim who doesn't know arabic can't read the qur'an in his own language too, is there?
Reply

*charisma*
04-03-2007, 09:07 AM
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
So in the nutshell you mean that Qu'ran is a message for the Arabs to follow and for all others to recite in a language which they're not familiar with only to get the double reward.
Nah, I'm saying because they are striving to learn what is foreign to them, obviously its going to be a struggle rather than one who is fluent in the language, Allah rewards them for that struggle, because they are seeking knowledge on their own, they want to learn it. Allah rewards those who struggle and seek knowledge for His sake.

If it was super easy, many would put it off for later, I mean it'd be so easy that we'd be able to learn it at any time any where, we wont need to digest its words, just as you are reading this post right now.

We can put it off while we are old when we have too much time on our hands, but rather those that are striving to learn it on their own, who are putting time into it, who try to recite every letter down to its distinct sound, who strive to memorize it and teach others what they know, these people Allah will reward immensly, because the Qurans words, the word of Allah is powerful.

You try to make it sound easy for Arabs, sometimes its not even easy for the Arabs because of how connotative it is. Some arabs, don't even know how to read and write, yet they learned quran through recitations--orally. Some western arabs may know how to speak Arabic, but wouldn't understand a word of Quran because of its dialect. Some Non-Arab speakers may know how to read and write, but cannot speak it. Glad tidings to those who pursue knowledge and share it with others, and May Allah reward them immensely ameen.

And also you mean to say that if it's translated in different languages, then it's not possible to convey all the meaninging truely.
Not just the "one" meaning, but rather there are many verses that may connotate more than one meaning. How would that be translated to convey all of those meanings without causing confusion?

Different translators may use different words of phrases of their own languages to translate Quran that could change the meanings of Quran. You sound right. Non Arabs need not worry about what it says. They should only recite it to get the double rewards.
Who said they shouldn't worry about what it says? I said they should strive to learn it in arabic. This would require the translation wouldn't it? Once they can read, write, and recite (bi'idnillahi wa ta'ala) their knowledge would be more expanded to help them understand it better, to its fullest. Just like when in school you may learn how to read, write, say the word "car" and obviously your perception of a car would be an object with wheels that drives on the street, but afterwards, after you've gained the concept of what a car is and had the resources to learn more possibly through learned how to drive it and teaching others how to drive it, you would also have the capability to implement that knowledge and learn the mechanics of the car. You can obviously connect more to it (you'd learn how to fix it, add to it, take away from it), and that is just like Quran. The more you know about it, the more you will understand the deen (religion) and want to put it in practice because its the word of your Lord.

Anyways, your conclusions are illogical. How can one even strive to recite something they don't understand or don't plan to understand later on? Would you waste that much time learning an entire book, letter by letter, sound by sound, without wanting to know what the words mean?

What makes you the knower of intention to say that people only do it for the deeds to the point where you make it sound that it is a bad deed or useless deed? It is a GREAT deed. To learn the powerful words of Allah and spread it to the ignorant, to which the ignorant can do the same and strive to learn is a great deed indeed. Not only does Quran implement religious knowledge, but it influences the Mu'min to seek secular knowledge. Deeds add up, if I'm going to struggle in Quran and get double rewards for it, when on top of that, EVERY letter is counted as a reward, I'm going to read that Quran to my potential. I'd get the double reward for learning it on my own, the reward of teaching to others, rewards of those who learn from me, and rewards from those who learn from them. I don't know about you, but I'm not perfect. I'd need all the rewards I can get! Surely, I'd have to have some great intentions to be able to learn a whole language, memorize a whole book, learn to recite it correctly, learn the tajweed, teach it to strangers, to friends, to family, answer questions about it, refutate others, etc. That's not really easy!

Allah is all wise, gracious, and merciful with spreading His rewards. Those that already are knowledgable in it, can implement it and teach it to others--those are their deeds. To you, these people seem to be one step ahead of those who are still learning the Quran. However those that cannot teach it to others yet, are being rewarded for their struggle to teach it to themselves, and surely even that is a struggle in itself, especially when you don't always have the support of others to help you when you need help(in reference to the home of reverts). They take themselves to the help, rather than waiting for help to arrive. And that equalizes the reward between one who has already implemented the Quran, and one who is working to implementing it.

It takes away a heavy burden on him who is learning it. They don't have to worry about, like you said, just reciting and memorizing, but rather they can take the time to let the words sink in, and to know that they are getting reward for it, enlightens the seeker of knowledge.

Originally Posted by Snakelegs
surely if you, as most muslims, do not understand arabic - it is permitted to read qur'an in your own language, realizing that no translation can be fully accurate?
are there those that forbid this?
Originally Posted by snakelegs
i've heard qur'an recitations and would have to agree with you - it is very beautiful.
but there is no reason why a muslim who doesn't know arabic can't read the qur'an in his own language too, is there?
Absolutely not. They would have to if they couldn't understand arabic, no? Even though its not the completely accurate, its still a piece of knowledge that one can put into practice and teach to others. Some may even like a certain verse, so they memorize that verse, and try to learn that verse in its whole by learning the arabic definitions of it as well. Thats adding knowledge. Verse after verse, you would probably be able to translate other verses through the arabic text since you've gathered up so much information over time from other researched verses.

peace
Reply

snakelegs
04-03-2007, 09:10 AM
Originally Posted by *charisma*

Absolutely not. They would have to if they couldn't understand arabic, no? Even though its not the completely accurate, its still a piece of knowledge that one can put into practice and teach to others. Some may even like a certain verse, so they memorize that verse, and try to learn that verse in its whole by learning the arabic definitions of it as well. Thats adding knowledge. Verse after verse, you would probably be able to translate a verse through its arabic because you've gathered up so much information over time.

peace
makes sense to me. :statisfie
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siFilam
04-03-2007, 09:24 AM
:salamext:

When an immigrant comes to a foreign country they take the time and exert great efforts to learn the new language. This benefits the person to get better jobs, understand their new environment etc. The same way, if you want to benefit and understand Islam you should learn the language of the Qur'an. You can make effort for your life in this world but you can't do the same for your After life.
We should appreciate the beauty of Islam because by learning to read the Qur'an in Arabic and understanding its meaning is a way of encouraging Muslims to seek knowledge and to abandon ignorance. Thus in this way Allah is encouraging us to seek knowledge. I didn't realize this until I started writing this post. May Allah give us the ability to obey Him and to understand the beauty of Islam. Ameen.

wasalam
-SI-
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Malaikah
04-03-2007, 10:46 AM
Originally Posted by siFilam
When an immigrant comes to a foreign country they take the time and exert great efforts to learn the new language. This benefits the person to get better jobs, understand their new environment etc. The same way, if you want to benefit and understand Islam you should learn the language of the Qur'an. You can make effort for your life in this world but you can't do the same for your After life.
:sl:

Mashaallah sis that is so true. I am currently studying Arabic at uni, and to be honest most of my class are non-arabs and non-muslim! Something like 80%. If these people can put in the effort to learn Arabic, and without having any great need to do so, then why is it asking so much for Muslims to learn? The only person who will benefit from it is themselves!
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doodlebug
04-03-2007, 01:50 PM
So far I haven't heard anything authorative saying that it is required to perform salat in arabic.
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iqbal_soofi
04-03-2007, 02:02 PM
Originally Posted by siFilam
:salamext:

When an immigrant comes to a foreign country they take the time and exert great efforts to learn the new language. This benefits the person to get better jobs, understand their new environment etc. The same way, if you want to benefit and understand Islam you should learn the language of the Qur'an. You can make effort for your life in this world but you can't do the same for your After life.
We should appreciate the beauty of Islam because by learning to read the Qur'an in Arabic and understanding its meaning is a way of encouraging Muslims to seek knowledge and to abandon ignorance. Thus in this way Allah is encouraging us to seek knowledge. I didn't realize this until I started writing this post. May Allah give us the ability to obey Him and to understand the beauty of Islam. Ameen.

wasalam
-SI-


Allah is not just the Allah of Arabs. He is everyones Allah. He listens to the sincere prayers and responds to the honest people. So feel free to chat with Him in any language you feel most comfortable in.

Don't fall into the trap of thugs who want you to make them your representatives and interpretors while talking to Allah. They make you believe that your prayers will not be responded if you don't put them in between you and Allah. They're the thugs. Be aware of them.
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siFilam
04-03-2007, 06:56 PM
:salamext:
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
Allah is not just the Allah of Arabs. He is everyones Allah. He listens to the sincere prayers and responds to the honest people. So feel free to chat with Him in any language you feel most comfortable in.
I do pray in my own language after I perform my Salah in Arabic. Allah made everything easy for us. People like you seek to complicate matters.

Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
Don't fall into the trap of thugs who want you to make them your representatives and interpretors while talking to Allah. They make you believe that your prayers will not be responded if you don't put them in between you and Allah. They're the thugs. Be aware of them.
I guessing you are referring to the Scholars as the thugs. It wasn't a hard guess. Please explain to me how are we putting them between us and Allah by performing our Salah in Arabic. What you are referring to is Shirk and we are not Mushrik.
By the way, do u know how to perform your Salah because everything we read in Salah is basically praising our One and Only Creator, Allah.

wasalam
-SI-
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iqbal_soofi
04-03-2007, 09:26 PM
Originally Posted by siFilam
:salamext:


I do pray in my own language after I perform my Salah in Arabic. Allah made everything easy for us. People like you seek to complicate matters.
You do the right thing if you pay in your own language. You believe in the same as I do, i.e., paryer in Arabic is not required.

Originally Posted by siFilam
I guessing you are referring to the Scholars as the thugs. It wasn't a hard guess. Please explain to me how are we putting them between us and Allah by performing our Salah in Arabic. What you are referring to is Shirk and we are not Mushrik.
By the way, do u know how to perform your Salah because everything we read in Salah is basically praising our One and Only Creator, Allah.

wasalam
-SI-
When you also believe that prayer in Arabic is not required or mandatory, then why do you still pay to those who convince you to pray in a language in which you cannot express yourself comprehensively and clearly? You pay them because they make you pay using spirtual arguments and other tactics. Generally the kind of people who make you take out money from your pocket for them using different arguments and tactics are known as thugs.
Reply

siFilam
04-03-2007, 09:42 PM
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
You do the right thing if you pay in your own language. You believe in the same as I do, i.e., paryer in Arabic is not required.
prayer as in Du'a after PERFORMING MY SALAH IN ARABIC. Salah in Arabic is must. May Allah save me from thinking and acting like you. AMEEEEEEEEEENNNN.


Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
When you also believe that prayer in Arabic is not required or mandatory, then why do you still pay to those who convince you to pray in a language in which you cannot express yourself comprehensively and clearly? You pay them because they make you pay using spirtual arguments and other tactics. Generally the kind of people who make you take out money from your pocket for them using different arguments and tactics are known as thugs.
I do believe that Salah must be performed in Arabic. But my Du'a is actually combination of English, Arabic and Bangla (my parents r from Bangladesh). An in Islam we don't pray to people we pray to Allah.
U r accusing people of being Mushrik. be careful because you have no valid proof to do so. :raging:
Tell me what will u lose if you perform your Salah in Arabic.
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iqbal_soofi
04-03-2007, 10:47 PM
Originally Posted by siFilam
prayer as in Du'a after PERFORMING MY SALAH IN ARABIC. Salah in Arabic is must. May Allah save me from thinking and acting like you. AMEEEEEEEEEENNNN.




I do believe that Salah must be performed in Arabic. But my Du'a is actually combination of English, Arabic and Bangla (my parents r from Bangladesh). An in Islam we don't pray to people we pray to Allah.
U r accusing people of being Mushrik. be careful because you have no valid proof to do so. :raging:
Tell me what will u lose if you perform your Salah in Arabic.
So you mean that Allah doesn't mind if you say du'a in your own language, but then why he'd be angry if you say the slat in any language other than Arabic, when He knows that nobody in the whole jamaat knows Arabic? If Allah understands your language, and all the participant of the jamaat understand the same language, then for who you say it in Arabic?

Let me elaborate this a little further. When the Imam recities the verses in Arabic, there's hardly some people (non Arab Muslims) who understand what Imam is saying. In fact when we say slat by joining our sholuders and bow to Allah, we actually pledge that we'd work as a team when we go out on our duties of life. Nobody would cheat with others. The verses of Quran teach you different morals which every listener should understand. Listening something without understand is of no use. Allah would be definately annoyed with us when we pretend that we're listening carefully to the message of Allah whereas in fact we really don't understand it properly.
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*charisma*
04-04-2007, 01:16 AM
Assalamu Alaikum

So you mean that Allah doesn't mind if you say du'a in your own language, but then why he'd be angry if you say the slat in any language other than Arabic, when He knows that nobody in the whole jamaat knows Arabic? If Allah understands your language, and all the participant of the jamaat understand the same language, then for who you say it in Arabic?
This must be a difficult subject for you ekhi, isn't it :sunny:.

Let me elaborate this a little further. When the Imam recities the verses in Arabic, there's hardly some people (non Arab Muslims) who understand what Imam is saying.
Which is why, if the majority of the people in the masjid are nonArabs, those verses are translated. If they are said in just Arabic, they can go seek that knowledge on their own, they can ask questions, but usually this is not needed, since it's always always translated. It should be said in Arabic of course, it's the language of the Quran, in its most accurate form. When they do translate it, its only a rough translation. Not as accurate as it is in Arabic, but for those who understand the Arabic, they can go more in depth with the translation.

In fact when we say slat by joining our sholuders and bow to Allah, we actually pledge that we'd work as a team when we go out on our duties of life. Nobody would cheat with others.
Mashallah, that's great that you can understand the concept of unity. Excellent. So a brother prays in English, another in Arabic, another in Urdu, and another in Spanish, where's the unity? Moreso, if one asks each one, what it was they recited--think of it this way--if a little kid came in to learn Salah, he asks the one who speaks english what the first surah he recited was, what would be the response? He will obviously give him the English translation, right? Then he goes to the second brother and asks him the same question, the brother will give him the Arabic, then the third brother will give him the Urdu translation, etc. What will that little boy learn? HOw much of that surah will he pick up? Rather, if each one recited it to him in Arabic, he'd pick up more of the ayahs in arabic than if he had heard the different translations in different languages. Even if they all translated it to him in English, they won't have the same translation to give to him.

When everyone recites in Arabic, and prays the same way, and is learning the exact same meanings and morals of the verses, then Allahu Akbar! The unity is much greater.

Supplication, du'a, is allowable in whatever language you are more comfortable with, because not everyone is fluent with every word in arabic, its not required for them to learn arabic to learn supplication, because supplication differs from person to person, but salah is obligatory because it includes the words of Allah, it is teachable to others, du'a is more personal.

On another note, each surah of the Quran is like a rhyming poem. It is much easier to memorize the Quran in Arabic than to memorize it in English. Those who continue to seek knowledge, will even be able to translate each of those verses on their own to others. How many Christians have you heard of that have the whole Bible memorized in two languages--skip that, how bout in just one?? It's in english and whatever language they want, but I have never met nor heard of any Christian or Catholic have their entire Bible memorized.

If you go to perform Hajj, what language should the Imam recite the prayers in? There are people from ALL OVER THE WORLD, yet Arabic is the universal language of Islam. Do not be lazy in the deen, prove you are striving to learn Arabic, don't expect the teachings to come to you so easily as the ignorant do, for the ignorant always stay ignorant in this manner.

The verses of Quran teach you different morals which every listener should understand. Listening something without understand is of no use.
So if you listened to something and didn't understand it, who's fault is that? The teacher or you, the learner? Yes, if you don't mind, I would like you to answer this question to the best of your ability inshallah.

Allah would be definately annoyed with us when we pretend that we're listening carefully to the message of Allah whereas in fact we really don't understand it properly.
Listening carefully? If you're truly listening carefully, then you want to pick up from whatever you're listening as much as you can. Even if its a morsel of knowledge, its a morsel of benefit.

When you take the example of little children learning Quran, not many will grasp the translation right away, but they would have the ability to memorize it, even if they didn't know what it meant. For the time being they can memorize the whole entire Quran and not know its meaning. Later on, when their minds expand and mature, they will try to learn what they have memorized. That is an advantage, no? There is an advantage to listening something you don't understand, because it makes you want to understand it. It will be a desire from inside of you.

Why do you make every person who strives to learn Quran in Arabic sound like they are lazy in their search? The person who seeks Allah's pleasure, will seek it in the highest of mountains or deepest of seas, and when knowledge is concerned, there is no limit to how much one can learn. If there are non Arab reverts who know more about the deen than I, a born Muslim, then surely anyone can do it, even if your knowledge of Islam started with a blank slate.

fi aman Allah
wa'alaikum asalaam
Reply

iqbal_soofi
04-04-2007, 01:48 AM
Originally Posted by *charisma*
Assalamu Alaikum
Which is why, if the majority of the people in the masjid are nonArabs, those verses are translated. If they are said in just Arabic, they can go seek that knowledge on their own, they can ask questions, but usually this is not needed, since it's always always translated. It should be said in Arabic of course, it's the language of the Quran, in its most accurate form. When they do translate it, its only a rough translation. Not as accurate as it is in Arabic, but for those who understand the Arabic, they can go more in depth with the translation.
It may not be as accurate as the original, but it's better to understand something than nothing. For the general people who don't know a single word of Arabic is just like playing music in front of a buffalo.



Originally Posted by *charisma*

So if you listened to something and didn't understand it, who's fault is that? The teacher or you, the learner? Yes, if you don't mind, I would like you to answer this question to the best of your ability inshallah.
Obviously it's the teachers fault who bluntly teaches geography to the students in English when he knows that students don't understand a single word of English.



Originally Posted by *charisma*

When you take the example of little children learning Quran, not many will grasp the translation right away, but they would have the ability to memorize it, even if they didn't know what it meant. For the time being they can memorize the whole entire Quran and not know its meaning. Later on, when their minds expand and mature, they will try to learn what they have memorized. That is an advantage, no? There is an advantage to listening something you don't understand, because it makes you want to understand it. It will be a desire from inside of you.
This is like digging the grave first and then expecting the person of the same size or height to die.

In Quran there're some solutions to the social problems of the old times of Arabs. Now we wish to convert every Muslim country's envoirnment to that of the old time Arab first, and then apply the solutions specified in Quran to solve those problems (which hardly exist anymore).
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north_malaysian
04-04-2007, 02:12 AM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
i've heard qur'an recitations and would have to agree with you - it is very beautiful.
but there is no reason why a muslim who doesn't know arabic can't read the qur'an in his own language too, is there?
Actually Muslims are obliged to read one Sura (Al Fatiha) in performing the salah... which only consists of 7 verses.... is it difficult enough to know the meaning of these 7 verses....?
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noodles
04-04-2007, 02:15 AM
This question is intended for Iqbal.

You mentioned that pray your Salat in your own language, so assuming that your language was english, am I correct in assuming that you've memorized Surahs from the translated Quran, and pray your five daily prayers in English?


On another note, I dare you to memorize the translated Quran if you haven't already and then learn Arabic and translate the english memorization you have memorized. I guarantee that a better part of it will be misleading.
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*charisma*
04-04-2007, 02:16 AM
Assalamu Alaikum

It may not be as accurate as the original, but it's better to understand something than nothing. For the general people who don't know a single word of Arabic is just like playing music in front of a buffalo.
Which is what I explained previously. Anything is better than nothing. I didn't say to reject translations completely, but alongside to learn the arabic when you are able to do so.

Obviously it's the teachers fault who bluntly teaches geography to the students in English when he knows that students don't understand a single word of English.
La ya ekhi. The teacher has his obligations, and the student has his obligations. There is a fair share. The teacher must teach to the fullest of his ability, and the learner must take in to the most of his ability what he can, as well as learning from else where so that the teachings aren't biased, surely the student picks who he wants for his teacher as well, right? You cannot blame Allah subhana wa ta'ala for choosing Arabic as the Quranic language for someone to learn it, if the one who chooses to read the Quran does not seek to learn the Arabic. It's not His fault if that person doesn't care to learn it. We have free choice, and our rewards are based on what we choose to do with that freedom.

This is like digging the grave first and then expecting the person of the same size or height to die.
To that negativity? How about building a building that will provide many jobs and hoping the person will learn how to manage it because his own desires drive him to do something positive? If I'm a teacher, it's my obligation to teach. It is up to the student if he wants to take that advantage and expand upon it. Don't you think that if someone took the time to help me memorize something, I'm going to seek its level of importance? It has to be worth something for me to memorize it or for someone to take time from their life to help me memorize it. Its not the same if you have someone spit out information for you, than if you go to seek it on your own. Right?

In Quran there're some solutions to the social problems of the old times of Arabs. Now we wish to convert every Muslim country's envoirnment to that of the old time Arab first, and then apply the solutions specified in Quran to solve those problems (which hardly exist anymore).
We can still learn from those solutions. The people of today are no different than those of the past. Of course the situations have evolved and changed, but the people still react the same to those situations. Just worry about not conforming and doing your best in deen. We aren't perfect nor do we have to obey those that conflict with our duties to Allah. If you can do some things that were used back in the day, if you have that ability to, why not do it?

fi aman Allah
w'salaam
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Kidman
04-04-2007, 05:40 PM
Originally Posted by doodlebug
So then why do people in Iran pray in Farsi?
People in Iran don't pray in farsi, loool... Where do you get such information?? GEeeeez... get the facts straight before making up things you hear from you friends.

They might do their Dua's in Farsi, just like Americans who pray to Allah in Arabic and then ask for what they want in english... "To You we pray, and to You we ask for help"

kidman
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noodles
04-04-2007, 07:02 PM
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
I didn't accuse you of anything let alone a MUSHRIK. I never accuse anyone with these kind of weird labels. Only the religious scholars use these kind of labels as their venomus weapons.




Maybe you're right. Muslims need not bother about what is being said in a salaat. They should perform salaat like an illiterate person.
Ok, there is a certain problem here. Let's say that we are imam is leading the Jamaat in English, and there are certain people in the jamaat who don't understand english, will you still blame the Imam?

It is not about understanding the quran during prayers[We are obligated to learn the Quran, translated or untranslated, in our own time], what it is about is congregation equality. When you stand and I stand beside each other, we are equal, regardless if we understand the verses or not. If you do understand, then good, Kudos for you.

If during the time of our prophet, the persians or the abyssinians or the egyptians hadn't made an effort to understand the arabic language, and rather just used a translated text and told everyone to memorize that, imagine how many different editions of the Quran would we have today.

I say this because when a person memorises something he seeks to understand its denotative meanings AND connotations. If the Quran was translated in persian, alot of its indepth understanding is lost. So the next generation is unable to grasp the core concept of some events. As it continues on through generations and what you'd have at the end is a completely deformed version of the Quran. It works much like the broken telephone game.
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doodlebug
04-04-2007, 09:48 PM
Originally Posted by Kidman
People in Iran don't pray in farsi, loool... Where do you get such information?? GEeeeez... get the facts straight before making up things you hear from you friends.

They might do their Dua's in Farsi, just like Americans who pray to Allah in Arabic and then ask for what they want in english... "To You we pray, and to You we ask for help"

kidman
I don't see the need to be rude.

I was having lunch about a month ago with some collegues and one of them happens to be from Iran. I had not met him before so I said "assalam alaykum", thinking that because he is from Iran and he is muslim he would know what I meant. He did not say anything and my friend asked what I said so I explained it and then I said that he was supposed to have said "walaykum salam" back to me, and I stared at him waiting to hear why he didn't.

He told me he does not know Arabic and I said "then how do you pray" and he said "I am from Iran and we pray in Farsi".

I had no reason to believe that he lied so I asked my husband who lives in Egypt and he confirmed that people from Iran pray in Farsi.

Do you have proof that they do not or were you just using me as a verbal punching bag for your own amusement?
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guideme2007
04-04-2007, 09:54 PM
what about niyat for Salah? can that be made in any language?
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north_malaysian
04-05-2007, 04:28 AM
Originally Posted by guideme2007
what about niyat for Salah? can that be made in any language?
The Shafiite Sunnis must uttered the niyah in Arabic (and understand the meaning in whatever language in their heart)

Thus, when Malaysian kids are learning how to perform the salah... the religious teachers/parents would ask them to utter the niyah (usually those kids are shouting as the teachers/parents need to hear it more clear :D ) in both languages in order for them to understand whatever they're uttering... so it would be like this..

Usalli fardhan Dhuhri Arba3a raka'atin lillahi Ta3ala, Sahaja aku sembahyang fardhu Zuhur 4 rakaat kerana Allah Ta'ala... Allahu akbar!!!!

:okay:
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Woodrow
04-05-2007, 04:39 AM
I am much too tired to sort out any petty arguments. Rather than trying to sort out who is right and who is wrong, it is easier to just remove the squabble and anything that got caught in the middle of it.

Personal arguments and/or name calling will not be tolerated. And if you see it the best route to take is report it without responding to it.
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ABWAN
04-05-2007, 05:18 AM
Originally Posted by doodlebug
I don't see the need to be rude.

I was having lunch about a month ago with some collegues and one of them happens to be from Iran. I had not met him before so I said "assalam alaykum", thinking that because he is from Iran and he is muslim he would know what I meant. He did not say anything and my friend asked what I said so I explained it and then I said that he was supposed to have said "walaykum salam" back to me, and I stared at him waiting to hear why he didn't.

He told me he does not know Arabic and I said "then how do you pray" and he said "I am from Iran and we pray in Farsi".

I had no reason to believe that he lied so I asked my husband who lives in Egypt and he confirmed that people from Iran pray in Farsi.

Do you have proof that they do not or were you just using me as a verbal punching bag for your own amusement?
Did you ask him if he is muslim? from what I know, Iran has quite a few religion. Besides I dont think it would be good to come to a conclusion based on what you hear from 1 or 2 people. My personal experience with one Iranian was funny. He was asking why we say 'La Illaha Il Allah Muhammadur Rasoolallah" and not "Isa/Yunus/Nuh RasoolAllah". I thought that was too naive and believe me, there are people like that NOT JUST in Iran...but everywhere claiming to be muslims although belonging to some tailored denomination that fits their needs.

"prayer" is perhaps a wrong word that you have used. Salah NEEDS to be in Arabic for numerous reasons, while Du'a can be in any language (it actually doesnt need a language I would assume).

Majority of muslims are non-arabs now. That means its easy for a non-arab to memorize arabic (once they get past the initial troubles) and they would never forget. Now if I am english and if I try to memorize the english translated version of any surah, I dont think I would do a good job. Besides, english and so many other languages (including arabic) has gone through so much changes in course of time that what I pray now would sound so different from what my ancestors did centuries back (if it was not in classical arabic). Besides, if muslims did use their native language for salat, I would imagine Islam would have had the same fate as Christianity. Its a blessing that I or any other muslim prays the exactly the same way prophet(Saw) did. How many non-muslims can make such a claim?

Also If I were to move to portugal, I would have to learn portugese to know what surah the imam is reciting in portugal. Thats another beauty of sticking to the same language. besides, whats wrong with arabic? Its one of the most beautiful languages and the chosen language in heaven!!! So if we do some little hardwork and inshaAllah if we do end up in jannah, we wouldnt have any communication problem there! :)
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siFilam
04-05-2007, 05:27 AM
:sl:
Originally Posted by Woodrow
I am much too tired to sort out any petty arguments. Rather than trying to sort out who is right and who is wrong, it is easier to just remove the squabble and anything that got caught in the middle of it.
Sorry for the trouble...I know it was mainly Iqbal_soofi and I, but couldn't help it, its too tempting to let him rant on alone.

wasalam
-SI-
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Kidman
04-05-2007, 03:23 PM
Originally Posted by doodlebug
I don't see the need to be rude.

I was having lunch about a month ago with some collegues and one of them happens to be from Iran. I had not met him before so I said "assalam alaykum", thinking that because he is from Iran and he is muslim he would know what I meant. He did not say anything and my friend asked what I said so I explained it and then I said that he was supposed to have said "walaykum salam" back to me, and I stared at him waiting to hear why he didn't.

He told me he does not know Arabic and I said "then how do you pray" and he said "I am from Iran and we pray in Farsi".

I had no reason to believe that he lied so I asked my husband who lives in Egypt and he confirmed that people from Iran pray in Farsi.

Do you have proof that they do not or were you just using me as a verbal punching bag for your own amusement?
Sorry for getting upset before, but just because you had one experience you cannot believe this to be true about all of the iranians.

If they are Iranian, it doesn't mean they are always muslim. Especially in America, most are not muslim, but in Iran, over 90% are Muslim, and all pray in Arabic like it's supposed to be.

Sorry again, i didn't know the story behind it, it felt more like an insult.
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Kidman
04-05-2007, 03:25 PM
Originally Posted by guideme2007
what about niyat for Salah? can that be made in any language?
In any language, but preferred in Arabic. Actually, you don't have to even say anything and just think it.
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Md Mashud
04-05-2007, 03:45 PM
It is a compulsory part of a salah being accepted to read 3 sentences from the Quran. (Fard)

Then, we have the Wajib recitations during salah aswell, which are very important.

Reading these surah's in another language is not reading the Quran, but merely an interpretation - Its always opinionated on the author how he wishes to convey the translation.

Translations can never be seen as true Quran, they should not be used in prayer - It just cannot be accepted.

I was not natively arabic, and I can say - If you actually cared, it definatly cant b hard to memorise some sentences to comply with the requirements - Its not neccessary to memorise a lot you know? So lets not exaggerate that Islam was made for arabs alone. Too much exaggeration.

Anyway, I cannot see any reason why it would ever be allowed to read it in another language.
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iqbal_soofi
04-05-2007, 04:18 PM
Originally Posted by Md Mashud
It is a compulsory part of a salah being accepted to read 3 sentences from the Quran. (Fard)

Then, we have the Wajib recitations during salah aswell, which are very important.

Reading these surah's in another language is not reading the Quran, but merely an interpretation - Its always opinionated on the author how he wishes to convey the translation.

Translations can never be seen as true Quran, they should not be used in prayer - It just cannot be accepted.

I was not natively arabic, and I can say - If you actually cared, it definatly cant b hard to memorise some sentences to comply with the requirements - Its not neccessary to memorise a lot you know? So lets not exaggerate that Islam was made for arabs alone. Too much exaggeration.

Anyway, I cannot see any reason why it would ever be allowed to read it in another language.
Let's talk about the facts sincerely.

It was initially assumed that Arabic will replace the native languages wherever Islam would be spread, which means that Arabic would become the common language of all Muslims. But this assumption proved wrong. Native languages couldn't be changed with the religious languages. There're other factors (mostly economic) that change the native languages to some extent. But religious people are so much sentimental that they're not ready to accept this fact.
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Muslim Woman
04-05-2007, 04:45 PM


Salaam/peace ,


Originally Posted by doodlebug
...... I said that he was supposed to have said "walaykum salam" back to me, and I stared at him waiting to hear why he didn't.

He told me he does not know Arabic and I said "then how do you pray" and he said "I am from Iran and we pray in Farsi".

.....
I m shocked that an adult Muslim does not know how to say Walaykum as Salaam. Do we have to be expert in Arabic to say 2/3 few Arabic words/ Islamic greetings ?

May be , he did not understand ur accent & may be , he was not fluent in English & could not explain the matter.

May be , he said , Iranians offer the Dua/supplication in Farsi ( it's allowed to offer Dua in mother tongue ). But Muslims must recite Sura Fatiha ( chapter 1...first sura ) & at least 3 more lines from ohter part in all Salat/namaz.


Is it possible for u to ask him again to explain the matter ? Have translator with u .....if possible , of course

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ABWAN
04-05-2007, 05:29 PM
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
Let's talk about the facts sincerely.

It was initially assumed that Arabic will replace the native languages wherever Islam would be spread, which means that Arabic would become the common language of all Muslims. But this assumption proved wrong. Native languages couldn't be changed with the religious languages. There're other factors (mostly economic) that change the native languages to some extent. But religious people are so much sentimental that they're not ready to accept this fact.

I am just curious - who/when/where and how were these assumptions made? do you have any source to back that?

From what I understood, the reason Islam could spead this fast is because of the diversity and acceptance of different culture and languages
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north_malaysian
04-06-2007, 04:07 AM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman

I m shocked that an adult Muslim does not know how to say Walaykum as Salaam. Do we have to be expert in Arabic to say 2/3 few Arabic words/ Islamic greetings ?
Yeah... and "Assalamualaikum/Wa'alaikumussalam" are considered as Malay language greetings too....

I think all Muslim languages incorporate these greetings in their dictionaries as part of their languages..
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lavikor201
04-06-2007, 04:18 AM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
wa alykum assalaam.


I hope the prayers are going well for you sister. Allaah knows best, but for any act of worship to be accepted - it has to be according to how the Prophet peace be upon him performed that act of worship, and it has to be sincerely for the sake of Allaah alone.

We also know that Qur'an cannot be Qur'an unless it is in the arabic tongue, anything in another language is simply a translation. So reading a translation won't get you the reward of reciting Qur'an. A believer may get rewarded for understanding the Qur'an [by reading the translation] - but reciting the Qur'an in arabic has 10 rewards for each letter i.e. the letters Alif Laam Meem = 30 rewards, because there are 3 letters.


The way of the prophet was to recite Qur'an in arabic, and the muslims who came from Persia, Syria etc. all over the muslim world learnt arabic in order to recite Qur'an. So it may be a requirement for it to be accepted. Allaah knows best.
So G-d does not accept prayers in langauges other than arabic? Talk about an Arab ego boost.
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ABWAN
04-06-2007, 04:24 AM
Originally Posted by lavikor201
So G-d does not accept prayers in langauges other than arabic? Talk about an Arab ego boost.
I think you missed out on most of the other posts and picked on this one. If you read through the messages in this thread, you might get a better idea.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
04-06-2007, 04:27 AM
Talk about rediculous criticism. You obviously ignored half the other posts?
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siFilam
04-06-2007, 06:49 AM
Originally Posted by lavikor201
So G-d does not accept prayers in langauges other than arabic? Talk about an Arab ego boost.
I think you misunderstood this. I've been to a Jewish Synagogue before and they did their worship services in Hebrew. can we say Israeli ego boost? No we can't b/c this is part of your religion, your history and your ancestral tradition.

Prayer is the wrong word to use here because we are referring to Salah the actual worship of Allah, The Most Exalted in Islam. This is Allah's right upon us thus it must be performed properly and according to the Sunnah, the way of Beloved Messenger (peace and blessing be upon him). Prayer as in Du'a is said after preforming Salah. This is when we usually ask for something, similar to the common understanding of prayer. And this can be in any language. This has nothing to do with Arab ego boost. As a non-Arab I think Arabic is the most beautiful and eloquent language and it is the language of our Beloved (peace and mercy be upon him).

and Allah knows best.

-SI-
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north_malaysian
04-06-2007, 07:01 AM
Originally Posted by lavikor201
So G-d does not accept prayers in langauges other than arabic? Talk about an Arab ego boost.
From what I've heard ... a Torah, is not a Torah if it's written in other language but Hebrew.... if it's true.... it just the same rule with our Holy Koran...

We want the authenticity of the words of God. When we recite His words in our "salah" we want it to be original.

But for "dua" prayer (any prayers that dont involve those 13 movements we did in Salah)... you can even say your prayer in Martian....
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snakelegs
04-06-2007, 07:24 AM
there is a certain power in people of the same religion all over the world praying the same prayers in the same language over hundreds of years.
jews and muslims share this. it's cool.
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north_malaysian
04-06-2007, 07:44 AM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
there is a certain power in people of the same religion all over the world praying the same prayers in the same language over hundreds of years.
jews and muslims share this. it's cool.
I think Hindus and buddhists too... in Sanskrit
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siFilam
04-06-2007, 08:16 AM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
I think Hindus and buddhists too... in Sanskrit
But those are two different religions.

-SI-
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north_malaysian
04-07-2007, 02:04 AM
Originally Posted by siFilam
But those are two different religions.

-SI-
but they pray using sanskrit
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iqbal_soofi
04-07-2007, 08:49 PM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
but they pray using sanskrit
They too make fools out of their followers. They don't want their followers to bother what is being read to them. They want the followers to be obedient and to be submissive. In this way they make them do anything in the name of religion. A few privilleged classes benefit from the majority in this way. That's why they're also going towards a downfall like Muslims. On the other hand, people form sensible nations want to know the meanings of each word and each command they're asked to follow. Therefore, it's hard to mislead the sensible people because they know what they're following.
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Woodrow
04-08-2007, 04:51 AM
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
They too make fools out of their followers. They don't want their followers to bother what is being read to them. They want the followers to be obedient and to be submissive. In this way they make them do anything in the name of religion. A few privilleged classes benefit from the majority in this way. That's why they're also going towards a downfall like Muslims. On the other hand, people form sensible nations want to know the meanings of each word and each command they're asked to follow. Therefore, it's hard to mislead the sensible people because they know what they're following.

Your reply is very logical and makes much sense. It would be true except for a few points that are overlooked.

1. Islam does not ask people to revert without knowlege as to what Islam is. In fact just the opposite, a person is required to have suffiecient knowledge, in order to say the Shahada with pure sincerity. we are constantly reminded of the need to always read and learn.

2. How do you measure sensible? If Allah(swt) is the only thing of lasting importance, isn't it more sensible to give up the pursuit of earthly gain if it interfers with the pursuit of Allah(swt)

3. We are not very biased. All of Mankind gains from the works of a Muslim, if he is following Islam.
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NoName55
04-08-2007, 04:54 AM
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
They too make fools out of their followers. They don't want their followers to bother what is being read to them. They want the followers to be obedient and to be submissive. In this way they make them do anything in the name of religion. A few privilleged classes benefit from the majority in this way. That's why they're also going towards a downfall like Muslims. On the other hand, people form sensible nations want to know the meanings of each word and each command they're asked to follow. Therefore, it's hard to mislead the sensible people because they know what they're following.
so would you say that sikhism/sufism is the only religion that got it right?
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ABWAN
04-08-2007, 09:38 AM
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
They too make fools out of their followers. They don't want their followers to bother what is being read to them. They want the followers to be obedient and to be submissive. In this way they make them do anything in the name of religion. A few privilleged classes benefit from the majority in this way. That's why they're also going towards a downfall like Muslims. On the other hand, people form sensible nations want to know the meanings of each word and each command they're asked to follow. Therefore, it's hard to mislead the sensible people because they know what they're following.
Since you started with "they too", I assume you are claiming that muslims are "making fool of themselves" as well. No one is stopping any muslim from understanding what is being said in the prayer. On the contrary it only encourages every muslim to know more about the religion and the words of Allah.

From what I have seen, praying salat in arabic hasnt made anyone influence any other muslim by any means. Prophet(saw) had instructed to pray salat in arabic. Do you mean to say that the prophet(saw) benefits by a muslim saying the salat in arabic or that he(saw) caused the downfall of muslims?

I dont know whom you refer to by "sensible nation". Do you mean to say that muslims (or jews or buddhists) arent sensible enough just because they say their prayers (salat) in a particular language? Again as I said, muslims MUST know the meaning of every word they say in Salat and I am sure all muslims do.

Considering how much text in Bible has changed in course of time and in course of translation from one language to another, I am happy that muslims pray the same way as they did 1000 yrs back.
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Muslim Woman
04-08-2007, 04:15 PM


Salaam/peace;


Originally Posted by doodlebug

Could someone please tell me if it is written down that it is required to pray in Arabic? Someone on another forum is saying that because it is not Sharia that the prayers need to be in Arabic that it is definitely not required.

Thanks!
&&&

let me sum up the points :


Muslims pray regarding Quran & Sunnah.


Perform AsSalat (Iqamat-as-Salat) from mid-day till the darkness of the night (i.e. the Zuhr, Asr, Maghrib, and Isha prayers), and recite the Quran in the early dawn (i.e. the morning prayer).



Verily, the recitation of the Quran in the early dawn is ever witnessed (attended by the angels in charge of mankind of the day and the night).

Al-Isra, Chapter #17, Verse #78



• ...Obey Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad)..." (Sura 3:32).


• "Ye have indeed in the Apostle of Allah (Muhammad) a beautiful pattern of (conduct) for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day." (Sura 33:21).


Surah 73. The Enshrouded One, Bundled Up


1. O thou folded in garments!
2. Stand (to prayer) by night, but not all night,-
3. Half of it,- or a little less,
4. Or a little more; and recite the Qur'an in slow, measured rhythmic tones.



Thy Lord doth know that thou standest forth (to prayer) nigh two-thirds of the night, or half the night, or a third of the night, and so doth a party of those with thee.


But Allah doth appoint night and day in due measure He knoweth that ye are unable to keep count thereof.



So He hath turned to you (in mercy): read ye, therefore, of the Qur'an as much as may be easy for you…..73:20




Therefore be patient with what
They say,

and celebrate ( constantly)
The praises of thy Lord,
Before the rising of the sun.

And before its setting;

Yea, celebrate them
For part of the hours
Of the night,
and at the sides



Of the day: that thou
May be pleased.”



The prayer before sunrise is clearly Fajr;

that before sunset is Asr;

part of the hours of the night would indicate Magrib
( early night, just after sunset );

and Isha , fore going to bed.

There is left Zuhr, which is in the indefinite side of middle of the day.


( 20:130)




( Commentary from Holy Quran, published from KSA )


Prophet (May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said:


Perform your prayer in the same manner as you had seen me doing.


Hadeeth explains the timings of the five daily prayers.
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:


When you pray Fajr, its time is until the first horn of the sun appears
(i.e., until it begins to appear over the horizon).



When you pray Zuhr, its time is until ‘Asr comes.



When you pray ‘Asr, its time is until the sun becomes yellow.

When you pray Maghrib, its time is until the reddish glow disappears.

When you pray ‘Isha’, its time is until midnight.”

(Saheeh Muslim, 5/109; Fatawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 6/121)



{www.islam-qa.com}


Why Must Muslims Pray in Arabic?




Supposing an Englishman goes to China and knows not a word of its language, and supposing he hears in the street something like "chen chu chih shan", evidently he would not understand what is meant by that;



and if it is the regional translation of the well-known call to prayer, the Allahu Akbar, he would fail to perceive it and would miss the weekly prayer on Friday, or the congregational prayer of the moment.





Similarly a Chinese Muslim, traveling through other countries, would find nothing in common with his co-religionists if these others said their congregational worship in their local tongues.


So a universal religion requires certain basic things to be common to all the faithful.


..Of course, there are provisions for exceptional cases, such as the needs of a new convert: immediately on his embracing Islam, he has to commence to perform the five daily services in which it is necessary to recite by heart the prescribed formulae. Until such time as he learns these formulae by heart, he may use their sense in any other language he can. For this we have the very high precedent of Salman al-Farisi, who sent the translation of al-Fatiha to some Persian converts, with the authorization of the Prophet Muhammad (p)himself and they used it until their tongue got familiarized with the Arabic text.


So, for some hours or some days, the new converts may use validly the translation.”

….Allah Almighty knows best.


Related link:

An Index to the Qur'an

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/quranindex.html#P


Prayer, 2:45, 9:103, 51:18, 70:22-23, 75:31, 96:10, 108:2


beautify (adorn) yourselves for, 7:31


content, 2:285-286, 3:8-9, 3:16,

3:147, 3:191-194, 17:80-81, 17:111, 23:118, 59:10, 66:8


day of congregation (Friday), 62:9
for the right reasons, 107:4-6
of Abraham, 2:126-129, 9:114,


14:35-41, 26:83-89
of Joseph, 12:101
of Moses, 20:25-35


of Noah, 23:26, 26:117-118, 71:26, 71:28
of Solomon, 38:35


of Zachariah, 19:8, 19:10
not while drunk, 4:43


prostration, 3:113, 7:206, 9:112, 15:98, 16:48, 16:49, 22:18, 22:26, 22:77, 25:60, 25:64, 26:219, 32:15, 39:9, 41:37, 48:29, 50:40, 53:62, 76:26, 96:19


restrains one from loathesome deeds, 29:45


sacred duty linked to time of day, 4:103


standing, 39:9


style of, 2:238, 17:110


times of day of, 11:114, 17:78, 17:79, 20:130, 24:36, 24:58, 30:17-18, 32:16, 38:18, 50:39-40, 51:17, 52:48-49, 73:2-4, 76:25-26



while in danger, 2:239, 4:101-102




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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
04-08-2007, 04:38 PM
Why would u not want to make Salaah in Arabic? Thats one of things that distinguishes us from other religions and unites us reciting in one language. Because of it, I used to get curious as to what i was saying. Now I know.
So I dont see why one would say its not necessary?

Allahu Alam.
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razu
04-08-2007, 04:59 PM
Its the UNity of Muslims
V hv to do in Arabic
Reply

MustafaMc
04-08-2007, 05:48 PM
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
Allah is not just the Allah of Arabs. He is everyones Allah. He listens to the sincere prayers and responds to the honest people. So feel free to chat with Him in any language you feel most comfortable in.
The Quran was revealed in Arabic and it has been preserved in Arabic. Had Prophet Muhammad been living in England at the time and had the revelation come down in 1610 instead of 610, then I believe the Quranic language would have been Elizabethan English instead of Quraysh Arabic. Quran 43:1-4 Ha M'im. By the Glorious Book. We have revealed this Qur'an in the Arabic language so that you may understand its meanings. Surely, it is a transcript of the Mother Book in Our keeping, which is sublime and full of wisdom.

Our prayers are not intended as a "chat with Him", but rather as worship. We know that recitation of Al-Fatihah is an essential requirement for prayer to be accepted as worship. We worship Allah as He has instructed us to do so through Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), not according to our own whims and desires. We also know that the translation of any language into another leaves tremendous room for mis-interpretation whereby even the intended meaning may be twisted. New converts to Islam should strive to learn to pray in Arabic, BUT at the same time they have to know the meaning in their own language. Otherwise prayer would be unmeaningful gibberish if one had no understanding of what s/he was reciting in prayer.

Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
Don't fall into the trap of thugs who want you to make them your representatives and interpretors while talking to Allah. They make you believe that your prayers will not be responded if you don't put them in between you and Allah. They're the thugs. Be aware of them.
I don't know who you are referring about "thugs", but I am sure you don't mean our respected Arabic brothers who try to guide others to the correct worship of Allah.

As indicated elsewhere salah is distinct from supplications. The best time and place to make personal supplications is during the act of prostration during salah (ritual prayer). Of course, non-Arabic Muslims can supplicate to Allah in their own language and in their own words.
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- Qatada -
04-08-2007, 06:00 PM
:salamext:


Alhamdulillah the issue's been clarified, if this thread remains open - i feel it will lead to some people saying things which contradict what Allaah and His messenger, peace be upon him have stated.


Therefore the thread will be closed.
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