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mahdisoldier19
04-03-2007, 03:01 AM
Taliban are back in force, MPS hear. Contradicting military chief's optimistim

ANDREW MAYEDA
CanWest News Service
Friday, March 30, 2007

Two Afghanistan experts painted a sobering picture of the conditions there yesterday, arguing support among Afghans for NATO forces is plummeting, the U.S.-driven policy of poppy eradication is wrongheaded, and the war might not be winnable in its present form.

U.S. scholar Barnett Rubin and Gordon Smith, Canada's former ambassador to NATO, delivered their withering comments to a Commons committee only days after Canada's top military commander, Gen. Rick Hillier, touted progress being made there.

Hillier, the chief of defence staff, this week predicted Canadian troops in southern Afghanistan will soon see a rise in attacks from the Taliban. But he insisted on using the term "surge" rather than "offensive."

He also noted many Afghans are moving back into their homes in districts west of Kandahar following a Canadian-led NATO offensive last fall.

But Rubin, who has been to Afghanistan 29 times over more than two decades, said yesterday many Afghans are growing frustrated with the pace of Western efforts to stabilize the country.

"They're not at all happy. Support for both the international presence and the government has plummeted in the past year or so," he told the foreign affairs committee.

He said Afghans aren't seeing the results of promises by the United States and NATO, which took over the mission in 2003, to increase security, establish democracy and improve the economy. "The main complaint that I hear from Afghans is ... that we haven't delivered what they think we promised."

Rubin recently published an article in Foreign Affairs magazine warning Afghanistan "is at risk of collapsing into chaos." In it, he blasts the U.S. for underestimating the influence of Pakistan, which he accuses of providing "safe haven" to the Taliban.

Smith, meanwhile, threw cold water on Hillier's suggestion that Canadian troops are facing a weakened enemy.

There is evidence Al-Qa'ida-affiliated militants, who often fight alongside the Taliban, are actually gaining strength, said Smith, now executive director of the Centre for Global Studies at the University of Victoria.

"The Al-Qa'ida problem has not gone away," he told MPs. "It's important that we not forget the original motivation for going to Afghanistan, and that was to deal with Al-Qa'ida."

Smith recently released a critical report of his own, titled Canada in Afghanistan: Is it Working? He questions whether NATO can achieve its stated goals, even within 10 years. Canada has committed to maintain its military presence until 2009.

He argued NATO needs to hike its troop commitment, while using development aid more effectively and opening negotiations with the Taliban. Smith also said NATO must create a market so Afghan farmers can sell their opium for legal use in medical products like morphine.

Both Rubin and Smith suggested Canada needs to have a new debate about its role in Afghanistan. Liberal MP Keith Martin welcomed their remarks.

Source: http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/s...d841dc&k=21972
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MTAFFI
04-03-2007, 02:10 PM
KABUL (Reuters) - U.S.-led coalition and Afghan troops killed at least 10 Taliban fighters on Tuesday in an attack on a compound in the southern province of Helmand after a tip-off that a junior commander was hiding there.

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In the western province of Farah, NATO and Afghan forces raided a mosque and captured 22 Taliban they said were being trained for suicide and other attacks, provincial police chief Sayed Aqa Saqib told Reuters.

During the Helmand attack, two Taliban fighters were also captured by coalition troops, who came under fire from small arms, mortars and rocket propelled grenades, according to a coalition statement.

Western and Afghan forces have opened a campaign, code named Operation Achilles, to seize the initiative before the Islamist guerrilla's anticipated spring offensive gets fully underway.

The junior commander they cornered was believed to have had direct ties to Mullah Dadullah, the Taliban's commander of military operations in the south, but the statement did not say whether he had been killed or captured.

The coalition troops also destroyed a small-weapons dump at the compound in the Sangin Valley.

The troops came under fire from fighters hiding in irrigation trenches as they tried to withdraw. They killed several of their attackers, but there were no casualties on the Afghan and coalition side.

Aside from being a Taliban stronghold, Helmand is a major drug producing region of Afghanistan, the world's leading producer of heroin.

Both the Taliban and NATO troops under U.S. command regard the coming months as a crucial period in the six-year insurgency.

Almost 4,000 people were killed in 2006, the bloodiest year since U.S.-led forces drove the Taliban militia from power.

Where does the Taliban actually have power? Everytime the gain power over an area something like this will happen and they will be removed, an endless game of chess
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Keltoi
04-03-2007, 06:12 PM
There should be increased NATO participation soon as well. The Taliban isn't coming back.
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wilberhum
04-03-2007, 08:19 PM
Keltoi, I so hope you are right. :thumbs_up
I fear the Taliban may regain control because we went to Iraq. :? :?
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Philosopher
04-03-2007, 08:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Keltoi, I so hope you are right. :thumbs_up
I fear the Taliban may regain control because we went to Iraq. :? :?
Osama Bin Laden is a genius. The most brilliant man of this century.
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wilberhum
04-03-2007, 08:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Philosopher
Osama Bin Laden is a genius. The most brilliant man of this century.
Na, he is just an evil man.
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MTAFFI
04-03-2007, 08:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Philosopher
Osama Bin Laden is a genius. The most brilliant man of this century.
lol, if he is such a genius why doesnt he find a way out of that cave with his life still intact?
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Philosopher
04-03-2007, 08:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Na, he is just an evil man.
He caused 9/11 and got away with it. A genius, IMO.
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wilberhum
04-03-2007, 08:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Philosopher
He caused 9/11 and got away with it. A genius, IMO.
If you define "living" as "getting away with it", you would be right.
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snakelegs
04-03-2007, 08:52 PM
the taliban are indeed coming back and there seems little question that they are growing stronger.
on the other hand, i know a couple of afghans (very anti-taliban type) who have recently returned to afghanistan, so apparently there have been some improvements and hope still exists for the future. maybe both things are going on at once?
unfortunately, most educated afghans have long ago left and are still in the west...but maybe slowly they are returning. (as i said, i know of 2). this is also a big problem for the future of the country.
i am not really sure of what the u.s. wanted to "win" in afghanistan beyond the pipeline, which i don't think will ever happen.
i also don't know what the u.s. policy is on poppy eradication is. at one time, i know they advocated spraying, but i think they finally agreed to less harmful ways of eradication. i see the poppies as a very major problem in afghanistan. as long as there is demand and drugs remain illegal in the west (which drives up the price), i think this will continue to be a big problem. something needs to take its place economically.
i know the taliban had pretty much eradicated it, but i don't know what their methods were - such as compensation for farmers, etc.
if any people ever deserved peace - it is the afghans. already way more than half the population has never known peace though there was a brief respite under the taliban.
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Philosopher
04-03-2007, 09:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
If you define "living" as "getting away with it", you would be right.
Living and free.
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wilberhum
04-03-2007, 09:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Philosopher
Living and free.
Na, living and hiding.
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Philosopher
04-03-2007, 09:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Na, living and hiding.
:rollseyes

He's a free man. And he's laughing at America too.
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wilberhum
04-03-2007, 09:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Philosopher
:rollseyes

He's a free man. And he's laughing at America too.
Why don't you go live with him? Looks like you need a laugh. :D
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Muezzin
04-03-2007, 10:23 PM
If we just say 'Evil Genius' and insert a cartoonish 'Muhahahaha' can we get back to the topic please? Ta.
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Pygoscelis
04-03-2007, 10:32 PM
Why are we (the north americans here) so obsessed with things over on the other side of the ocean anyway? I understand if people who live nearby are concerned. I undestand why Europeans may be alarmed, but why do north americans care?

I say pull out and let the wind blow as it may over there. Enough with all the interventions. Beef up actual homeland defence if we're concerned they may attack us. And as for Israel? Let them fend for themselves. They are more than capable.
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wilberhum
04-03-2007, 10:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Why are we (the north americans here) so obsessed with things over on the other side of the ocean anyway? I understand if people who live nearby are concerned. I undestand why Europeans may be alarmed, but why do north americans care?

I say pull out and let the wind blow as it may over there. Enough with all the interventions. Beef up actual homeland defence if we're concerned they may attack us. And as for Israel? Let them fend for themselves. They are more than capable.
Because over there came over here.
If we used your logic everyone in Europe would be speaking German.
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snakelegs
04-03-2007, 10:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Why are we (the north americans here) so obsessed with things over on the other side of the ocean anyway? I understand if people who live nearby are concerned. I undestand why Europeans may be alarmed, but why do north americans care?

I say pull out and let the wind blow as it may over there. Enough with all the interventions. Beef up actual homeland defence if we're concerned they may attack us. And as for Israel? Let them fend for themselves. They are more than capable.
actually, i agree with you. trouble is that we have already stuck our noses where they don't belong (and even thinking about doing it again). the world would be a better place if we minded our own business once in awhile.
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Keltoi
04-03-2007, 11:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
actually, i agree with you. trouble is that we have already stuck our noses where they don't belong (and even thinking about doing it again). the world would be a better place if we minded our own business once in awhile.
You have to keep in mind that someone poked their nose pretty far in our business on 9-11. The owner of that nose was in Afghanistan.
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Philosopher
04-03-2007, 11:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
You have to keep in mind that someone poked their nose pretty far in our business on 9-11. The owner of that nose was in Afghanistan.
I thought USA was Bin Laden's ally. Oh wait, they betrayed him like they betrayed Saddam Hussein. :rollseyes
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snakelegs
04-03-2007, 11:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
You have to keep in mind that someone poked their nose pretty far in our business on 9-11. The owner of that nose was in Afghanistan.
of course, that is a good point. :D has it really achieved anything? has anything we have done since 9/11 achieved anything - made us safer?

btw, i hope mahdi soldier comes back - he would know more about afghanistan than i do.
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Keltoi
04-04-2007, 01:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Philosopher
I thought USA was Bin Laden's ally. Oh wait, they betrayed him like they betrayed Saddam Hussein. :rollseyes
Yeah....sure.
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Keltoi
04-04-2007, 01:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
of course, that is a good point. :D has it really achieved anything? has anything we have done since 9/11 achieved anything - made us safer?

btw, i hope mahdi soldier comes back - he would know more about afghanistan than i do.
I would say keeping Al-Qaeda on the run and stopping them from using Afghanistan as a safe-haven was a necessary element to our national security.
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snakelegs
04-04-2007, 01:24 AM
are al-qaeda gone from afghanistan? are the taliban? i think a lot of al-qaeda have gone to iraq to fight, but that's a separate issue.
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Keltoi
04-04-2007, 02:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
are al-qaeda gone from afghanistan? are the taliban? i think a lot of al-qaeda have gone to iraq to fight, but that's a separate issue.
Are those elements completely gone from Afghanistan? No, but their organization has been crippled. Don't confuse the issue of warlords and the natural state of Afghanistan automatically with the Taliban.
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snakelegs
04-04-2007, 02:16 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Are those elements completely gone from Afghanistan? No, but their organization has been crippled. Don't confuse the issue of warlords and the natural state of Afghanistan automatically with the Taliban.
i don't think i am confusing the 2 things.
whatever we may have achieved in afghanistan, we undid when we invaded iraq.
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Keltoi
04-04-2007, 02:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
i don't think i am confusing the 2 things.
whatever we may have achieved in afghanistan, we undid when we invaded iraq.
How do you figure that? The goal in Afghanistan was to destroy Al-Qaeda's safe haven and their protectors the Taliban. That was in a large part accomplished, although it is still a work in progress. Iraq is a totally different issue, although connected in that terrorist groups with the same ideology as Al-Qaeda have flocked there to die for Allah.
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snakelegs
04-04-2007, 03:00 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
How do you figure that? The goal in Afghanistan was to destroy Al-Qaeda's safe haven and their protectors the Taliban. That was in a large part accomplished, although it is still a work in progress. Iraq is a totally different issue, although connected in that terrorist groups with the same ideology as Al-Qaeda have flocked there to die for Allah.
first, i don't think we ever ran them completely out of afghanistan.
is think it's connected because some of the reason may be that they are less because many have gone to iraq.
second - our invasion of iraq upped their recruitment.
as for the taliban, they are alive and well and getting stronger.
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Keltoi
04-04-2007, 03:03 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
first, i don't think we ever ran them completely out of afghanistan.
is think it's connected because some of the reason may be that they are less because many have gone to iraq.
second - our invasion of iraq upped their recruitment.
as for the taliban, they are alive and well and getting stronger.
We've been hearing this same line for years now. "The Taliban are getting stronger...watch out for the spring offensive". The only safe place for the Taliban are the mountains in and bordering Afghanistan. Yes, sometimes they emerge and behead a teacher or blow up some people with a car bomb, but the main problem for Afghanistan is the warlord phenomena and the economic dependence on poppy.
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snakelegs
04-04-2007, 03:08 AM
i agree about the poppy being the main problem of afghanistan.
the rest we will just have to disagree on. even karzai is freaking out at their growing threat. they are also growing and spreading in pakistan and the border is porous. (tho mush. is going to build a wall).
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Keltoi
04-04-2007, 03:09 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
i agree about the poppy being the main problem of afghanistan.
the rest we will just have to disagree on. even karzai is freaking out at their growing threat. they are also growing and spreading in pakistan and the border is porous. (tho mush. is going to build a wall).
Time will tell the truth of it. When the Taliban emerge and send the U.S., Canada, Australia, the Afghan Army, the Northern Alliance, NATO, and the U.N. out of Afghanistan I will send you a box of chocolates...:D
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mahdisoldier19
04-04-2007, 03:18 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
We've been hearing this same line for years now. "The Taliban are getting stronger...watch out for the spring offensive". The only safe place for the Taliban are the mountains in and bordering Afghanistan. Yes, sometimes they emerge and behead a teacher or blow up some people with a car bomb, but the main problem for Afghanistan is the warlord phenomena and the economic dependence on poppy.
Have you ever been to Afghanistan before the taliban, during the taliban, after the taliban before you start speaking as if you know Afghanistan like the back of your hand?
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Keltoi
04-04-2007, 03:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahdisoldier19
Have you ever been to Afghanistan before the taliban, during the taliban, after the taliban before you start speaking as if you know Afghanistan like the back of your hand?
I've never been to Antarctica either, but I know there is alot of ice and snow, with penguins and killer whales.
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mahdisoldier19
04-04-2007, 03:29 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
I've never been to Antarctica either, but I know there is alot of ice and snow, with penguins and killer whales.
Nice, so do not speak on issues that you do not have full knowledge about.
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wilberhum
04-04-2007, 03:39 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahdisoldier19
Have you ever been to Afghanistan before the taliban, during the taliban, after the taliban before you start speaking as if you know Afghanistan like the back of your hand?
I always like the concept that if you don't have first hand knowledge, you have no knowledge.
Keltoi summed it up quite well.
What is your attitude about history? Since you weren't there when events took place, does that mean they never took place?
I bet you would have a hard time finding 5 non-Muslims that thought the Taliban were a bunch of really good men. But of course that doesn't count because they were never under there rule. And of course the Afghans that speak out against them are evil apostates.
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mahdisoldier19
04-04-2007, 03:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
I always like the concept that if you don't have first hand knowledge, you have no knowledge.
Keltoi summed it up quite well.
What is your attitude about history? Since you weren't there when events took place, does that mean they never took place?
I bet you would have a hard time finding 5 non-Muslims that thought the Taliban were a bunch of really good men. But of course that doesn't count because they were never under there rule. And of course the Afghans that speak out against them are evil apostates.
Peace upon you

I was there when the events took place, Your Point?

I have actually found a hard time finding 500 non-muslims, i got 5 in less than 1 day.

Name me one group of people that speak against the law of Allah swt as Mumeen?
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Trumble
04-04-2007, 06:34 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahdisoldier19
Nice, so do not speak on issues that you do not have full knowledge about.
If everybody followed that instruction (which, of course, is ignored by everyone, including yourself) you could the number posts in this forum on one hand. :) .

Nobody has "full knowledge" about anything.

I doubt very much you would find any muslim who would "speak against the law of Allah"; that is a mutual contradiction. What you would find are those who do not accept that the Taliban represent the law of Allah, or indeed anything more than themselves. The majority of Afghans do not not want the extreme fundamentalism that the Taliban represent; that doesn't mean they are not muslims or are apostates. Don't confuse a natural desire for the end of conflict and for a peaceful existence with a desire for a return to the Taliban to power.

How many women did you speak to while you were there, by the way? Particularly those trained in a profession, such as teachers or doctors? I would be curious to hear of their enthusiam for the Taliban.
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north_malaysian
04-04-2007, 06:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Philosopher
Osama Bin Laden is a genius. The most brilliant man of this century.
If Osama bin Ladin is the most brilliant man in this century..... How about Mr Gorge W. Bush? :okay:
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MTAFFI
04-04-2007, 02:04 PM
The main thing that should be known here is that the Taliban will never again be a ruling government at the rate that they are going right now. They will kill innocent people to make the point that they are still out there, they will cause disruption in society, they will hate the US and all that dont agree with their line of thought, but they will never again be a political figure controling a country.

That being said the Afghan war isnt actually lost, the goal has been accomplished for a long time now, the new objective is to rid the world of them (an interest to the US), however this is not the Afghan war because the US isnt at war with Afghanistan. There will always be people who claim victory (especially in this region) when there is no clear winner, it is a psychological game that is played by them. The thing is their thinking is so far behind the rest of the world only the reporters who need a story are listening. How has the West lost this war in Afghan? Have they killed all of the soldiers? Have they taken the government back and established their hard line rule over the land again? Have they accomplished anything really except blowing up or shooting citizens of a country they claim to love? I dont think so, so how have they won? What objective have they accomplished? Disrupting the peace, by the same token a war can be won by simply claiming simple objectives, maybe the objective is to kill 1 person a day, just because they do that does that mean they won? Look at their state of being, they hide in the hills, come out and kill themselves and as many others as possible, that to me is not winning. Losing power over my country is not winning. Killing civilians in my country is not winning. The taliban has lost they just to dumb and proud to admit it. The same could be said of the insurgents in Iraq, what have they actually accomplished that they can take with them. The US's war in Iraq is over, we are not at war with Iraq we are trying to create stability, yes they are doing a good job of making sure there isnt stability, but what is actually being accomplished? Do you think any of these groups will one day rule Iraq? I seriously doubt it, they will be around, they will cause trouble but their cause is lost, because they have alienated themselves and shown that their interest is not in the Iraqis, there interest is only for themselves, if they do somehow rise to power, even if the US pulls out, the US will come back and remove them.
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mahdisoldier19
04-04-2007, 04:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
If everybody followed that instruction (which, of course, is ignored by everyone, including yourself) you could the number posts in this forum on one hand. :) .

Nobody has "full knowledge" about anything.

I doubt very much you would find any muslim who would "speak against the law of Allah"; that is a mutual contradiction. What you would find are those who do not accept that the Taliban represent the law of Allah, or indeed anything more than themselves. The majority of Afghans do not not want the extreme fundamentalism that the Taliban represent; that doesn't mean they are not muslims or are apostates. Don't confuse a natural desire for the end of conflict and for a peaceful existence with a desire for a return to the Taliban to power.

How many women did you speak to while you were there, by the way? Particularly those trained in a profession, such as teachers or doctors? I would be curious to hear of their enthusiam for the Taliban.
What do you know about Afghanistan. I have lived there with professional women who were doctors working in medical facilities, teachers who were female. Who are you to point at accusations. You claim the majority of afghans do not want the extreme fundamentalism that the Taliban represent. Prove your statement, you do not even know what the Taliban represent. You do not even know Afghanistan before the Taliban had controlled.

The afghan people are sick and tired of 2000 ib bombs being dropped on them in the name of democracy, thats not how you win the hearts of people. The US had 5 years to help all of Afghanistan, but failed. Now the taliban have arrived to take back whats theirs.
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MTAFFI
04-04-2007, 04:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahdisoldier19
What do you know about Afghanistan. I have lived there with professional women who were doctors working in medical facilities, teachers who were female. Who are you to point at accusations. You claim the majority of afghans do not want the extreme fundamentalism that the Taliban represent. Prove your statement, you do not even know what the Taliban represent. You do not even know Afghanistan before the Taliban had controlled.

The afghan people are sick and tired of 2000 ib bombs being dropped on them in the name of democracy, thats not how you win the hearts of people. The US had 5 years to help all of Afghanistan, but failed. Now the taliban have arrived to take back whats theirs.

http://www.hazara.net/taliban/taliban.html

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/taliban.html

Here are just two links on the Taliban, there are a million others out there that will say the same things. The taliban were oppressive to women, killed indiscriminately, etc. They are not for the Afghan people
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mahdisoldier19
04-04-2007, 05:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MTAFFI
http://www.hazara.net/taliban/taliban.html

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/taliban.html

Here are just two links on the Taliban, there are a million others out there that will say the same things. The taliban were oppressive to women, killed indiscriminately, etc. They are not for the Afghan people
Hazara.net? Lol Are you kidding me?

Do you even know what the Hazaras did with Poshtuns?

I from first hand experience witnessed, poshtun women crying and running to us since the NA soldiers were told to rape the poshtun women and children that way they are shamed to leave the land rather than stay and fight. Humiliation is the worse thing to do to a poshtun in which the Hazara were professionals at.

The hazaras had killed and butchered over 5,000 Innocent poshtuns,
So when the taliban retaliate it is called a "massacre"

I have been to this hazara.net website plenty of times and it makes me laugh at the false statements they record of Taliban elders speaking.

Adding that the hazaras were very jealous when they could not control an army that was sent to establish the Deen of Allah swt.

If the kuffar reject the taliban, then al hamdulillah that is evidence for us that the talib rule was Islamic, since the kuffar rejected every single rasool and nabii sent to them with dawah purposes of worshipping Allah swt.

This is the so called Mazar Sharif that the hazaras claim 15k were massacred, yet when the taliban were invaded the burqa sales Flew high

Burqa sales rocketing in Afghanistan

Life returns to Mazar-i-Sharif
The Jang Newspaper


MAZAR-I-SHARIF, Afghanistan: The fall of the Taliban has brought an unexpected windfall to stall-holders in the northern Afghan city of Mazar-i-Sharif, sales of burqas are sky-rocketing.

The burqa, an all-encompassing garment women were forced to wear by the Taliban, was seen as a symbol of the oppression exerted by the fundamentalist regime. But now the Taliban have been driven from power, sales could not be better,said a delighted Udut Qarizada at his stall in the Mandavi market in central Mazar-i-Sharif, the main city on the northern plains.

"Under the Taliban, I sold approximately 50 per day, now it's up to 120-140," he said, as the generator providing electricity to the market stopped and started in a sign that not everything was perfect. Mondays and Thursdays are best for sales when villagers descend from the surrounding mountains to do their shopping in this city of about 200,000 people.

I sell much more burqas than before because the women are now free to go out alone and choose their clothing for themselves," another stall-holder Karim Wahid, 28, said. He carries a stock of 1,000 burqas, in blue and in white, and said he was selling "100-120 a week compared to 10 in the time of the Taliban," who were driven out of the city by Northern Alliance ground forces on November 7.

With the lifting of the strictly enforced Taliban laws, which banned women from working and from going outside unless accompanied by a male relative, Wahid finds he has "more sales and thus more money."

In his office several blocks away, city mayor and former fighter Ishaq Raeguzar said one of the first directives after the Taliban fled was "to give women permission to work everywhere, including in official organisations."

This order, plus the arrival of international aid, the presence of many humanitarian organisations and the return of refugees from Iran and Pakistan gave a small boost to the economy. Schools for girls, music and kites, all prohibited under the Taliban's puritanical interpretation of Islam, have reappeared in the rejuvenated city but the burqa remains essential for most women at present.

"Give me security, then I will remove my burqa," said 40-year-old Nasrim. Hidden beneath her white garment, with a small mesh area in front of the eyes to look through, she told of crimes by the soldiers now in control of the city after the Taliban left and before the arrival of foreign troops.

Now the other website you sent me.

American Journalists set the Story Straight on Afghanistan

Taken from official Taleban Web-Site http://www.taleban.com/News_american...et_the_sto.htm

In a break with the status quo, a number of American journalists have begun to speak about Afghanistan in an open and unbiased manner. The journalists, most of whom have made extended visits to the country, are refuting the misinformation that is regularly spread by the international media. They include Mike Hoover, a producer for the CBS television network, and Cindy Law, a freelance female reporter who recently took a month-long trip to Afghanistan. Both are working on documentary films and gave interviews to the Voice of America's Pashto language service.

Hoover has been fascinated with Afghanistan for years and made frequent visits there during the Jihad against the Soviets, described his dismay when the factional fighting began in Kabul after the collapse of the Communist regime. Then, when the Taliban took power and peace was restored, the Western press quickly turned against Afghanistan and the smear campaign against the Taliban started. Hoover started to find out more, but, as he said:

"I could never find anything where the Taliban tell us what their thoughts are and what they are really doing. It was just other people talking about them without them ever speaking out. After talking to a couple of people who were over there and had exactly the opposite opinion of the Taliban, it seemed to me that it might be good for CBS to go over there to see for itself, to hear from Taliban about who they are and what they are trying to do, and to observe whether their goals are implemented or are just political talk."

The journalists says that before going to Afghanistan, he half-suspected that the reports that permeate the Western media might be true. But those suspicions were forgotten upon his arrival on Afghan soil. The first thing that he noticed and was surprised by was that there were no weapons and no armed men.

Hoover spent a month in the country, traveling from Kandahar to Kabul. He refuted the Western image of the Taliban as being ignorant. He saw them as being fully aware of both Afghan and world politics.

"When you speak to them on any subject, you realize how bright these guys are. It was surprising….you would learn that the guy you were talking to was only 26 years old when you thought you were talking to someone with the wisdom of a fifty year-old. I was very impressed." Hoover added.

He said that all those that he met there during his trip, whether young or old, were extremely happy about the security situation.

"People were happy that there was security, that there was no rocketing, that there was safety, that you didn't have any worries about crime as you did before."

When asked about the Taliban's harshness, he said, "On certain things, the Taliban are very strict…..I think it is fair. If you commit a crime, you will be punished for it. The punishment is, in my view, fair and swift."

Hoover was surprised by the fact that there is no formality, no red tape in Afghanistan-any one can see the ministers to hand in his petition or idea, and it will be acted upon swiftly. He said that the ministers that he saw didn't even look like ministers. They were dressed in the same way as the average person, and some even wore old clothes and well-worn shoes.

One thing that Hoover saw everywhere and was bothered by was the poverty and hardship, which has been compounded by UN sanctions. He deplored the twisted logic of the sanctions, saying:

"They destroyed their own country fighting the Soviets. They fought bravely. And now, instead of helping them or at least leaving them alone to rebuild, the world is imposing sanctions on them."

Hoover said that he hopes that other journalists and officials travel to Afghanistan with open minds to see the reality and analyze the situation themselves. People must not let themselves be deceived by biased second-hand information, he stated. If the truth was revealed, he said, then he is certain that the sanctions will be dropped and that, instead of confrontation with the Taliban, the world would help them. Hoover's comments are echoed by Law, who said that she had heard all sorts of things about Afghanistan, especially about the Taliban's treatment of women, so she decided go to the country to see for herself. Law spent more than a week in Kandahar and three weeks in Kabul, speaking to women from all walks of life, including female doctors and nurses. She said that while they had many concerns, the burqa (veil) was not one of them.

"Their major concerns, I would have to say, were the sanctions and war. All Afghans pleaded for the United States and the United Nations to end the sanctions and help rebuild their country. They also asked for medical, food, and financial aid."

Afghan women told Law that their first need, after economic assistance, is education for their children. In regards to female education, Law said that she saw some school for girls in homes, especially in Kandahar, and girls studying in mosques. "Taliban officials assured Law that once the war is over, they would turn their attention to the many issues facing the nation, including women's education and employment. She said that she saw work already beginning on some girl's schools in Kandahar."

Scoffing at the misconception held by many that Afghan women are prisoners in their homes, Law stated, "There are many women working in the hospitals and health care, and they comprise most of the women that I talked to. And I saw women walking around in the markets."

Law said that the world must realize that Afghanistan has been devastated by two decades of war, and that its infrastructure has been destroyed. She added that the international concern about the plight of Afghan women is to be appreciated, but "I think the best way to help the women of Afghanistan is to encourage the removal of sanctions. They are hurting the Afghan people, especially the women. And more humanitarian aid should be provided- medical, economic, etc."

Other American media outlets are also challenging the propaganda campaign that is being waged against the Islamic Emirate. The San Jose (California) Mercury, a daily newspaper, published comments made by a female Muslim student leader, Sara Azad, who said:

"The fact is, women in Afghanistan are now protected and their rights are guaranteed. Because no right comes before the right to life, and today they have that right."

Azad added that she receives letters from her grandmother in Afghanistan, who writes that Afghan women have never felt safer than they do now.

What now? What you got? You do not got anything, fall back.

The Taliban and Women

The treatment of women in Afghanistan is a subject that the Western Media and Feminists have concentrated their ideological warfare efforts on. They have based their 'reports' and analyses on a number of interviews with Communist women, whose idea of 'freedom' is similar to the freedom given to women in the West, i.e. that all women should make all parts of their bodies available to men to view and use; that in order to be good you must look good (thus creating an inferioriety complex and problems such as Anorexia eating disorders in young women who cannot accept that they do not look like beautiful models) and the use of naked and half-naked women to sell everything from cars to toilet paper. It is important to look at the policies of the Taliban as regards women and the facts in the country itself, as reported by independent journalists.

The following information has been taken from the official Taliban Administration web-site at www.taleban.com.

Women's Life Conditions Presently and Under Rabbani Regime

The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan is fully committed to the social, cultural and economic development of women. The government has been able to protect the honor, life and property of Afghan women. Contrary to the situation under the Rabbani regime, women can now be outside their houses safely without the fear of being kidnaped, raped or looted. They no longer fear conditions that were common during the Rabbani regime. According to amnesty international reports of 1992-95, women in Afghanistan bore the brunt of the atrocities by the Rabbani regime and other armed factions. Irresponsible commanders and gunmen not only violated the honor of women by raping them but mutilated women's bodies and in many cases, cut their breasts etc. Similarly, common was murder, torture and execution of our people by the armed factions. Due to the intolerable atrocities, the Taleban Islamic Movement emerged to deliver the defenseless Afghan people from the cruel hands of the warlords. One should ask oneself, is women's freedom to be raped with their breasts cut, or is it to freely live their lives without fear of even comments being made at them.

The former regime that did not serve the country had employed women in a number of sectors without any real need. Some of them were used just for the sexual entertainment of the bureaucracy. Due to the ineffective and immoral institutions, they have temporarily been relieved of their duties. The government pays them their salaries regularly. But women whose work is really needed, are still working in the health, education and security sectors. As conditions in the country improve, so will, doubtlessly, job opportunities for women.

Restoration of Women's Safety, Dignity and Freedom

Being highly concerned about the well-being of its female citizens, the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, soon introduced measures to put a stop to the miserable living conditions under which the women lived in Kabul. After the communists took over in Kabul, they began to exploit women for the purpose of advancing their political and social agendas. In spite of war condition in the country and with no work in the offices, the communist regime forced a large number of women to attend government offices only for their amusement.

The Islamic Emirate decided to pay the salaries of these women at their homes, so that they could stay home and take care of their families and children. The purpose of this policy is to help revive the Afghan family and household, as the foundation of the Afghan society, a foundation that was intentionally destroyed by the communist regime.

The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan is determined to provide educational and employment opportunities for the women of Afghanistan, as soon as the security and financial circumstances under which the Islamic Emirate operates allow such a step to be taken. In the meantime, the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan will try to acquire the resources and build the facilities that would make the separate education of women possible.

Observance of Islamic Hejab or the Veil

The enforcement of the code of Islamic Hejab by the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan is fully consistent with the Islamic beliefs of Afghans and the traditions of the Afghan society. Wearing a veil is common among women all over Afghanistan. Islam and Afghan tradition attach the greatest importance to the honor and safety of women in the society.

To comply with the Islamic code of Hejab, as well as to reduce the degree of threat to the personal safety of women, the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan is asking the women to observe the Islamic Hejab, and cover their faces in public. This is a measure that is undertaken for the simple reason of protecting the honor, dignity, and personal safety of the women in Afghanistan.

Women's Education in the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan

Based on the holy teachings of Islam, the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan considers education as the pillar of a healthy and prosperous individual and social life. The Islamic Emirate is determined to provide educational opportunities for all Afghans irrespective of gender, race, tribe, language, or regional affiliations.

The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan considers education to be obligatory equally for men and women according to the tenets of Islam. This is a clear verdict of our religion. However, currently the country is in shambles, its economic structure destroyed and education facilities turned to rubble like much else in the country. Afghanistan requires appropriate foreign assistance to rebuild every aspect of educational institutions. The present war situation imposed and fueled by foreign powers diverts from Afghanistan's already meager national resources that would be better allocated to opening more schools. Larger and more centrally-run schools in urban areas present the greatest challenge. Secondly, the Afghans do not trust the communist-style curriculum. We have to restore the trust of the common people in government-run education. We also need to compile a new curriculum that will answer to the needs of our society. Thirdly, the war has created a huge brain drain in all sectors including education. In order to successfully tackle restoration of educational, economic, political and social institutions, the government wants to attract Afghan professionals and intellectuals living abroad. We want them to take part in the reconstruction of their country. Without their full participation in the rehabilitation and development efforts, the Islamic Emirate will not be able to tackle these issues successfully.

The conditions today for the implementation of a sound, effective, and Islamic educational program for the women of Afghanistan are nonexistent. Over ninety percent of school buildings have been ruined by the war. Qualified teachers have left the country. School books are full of communist propaganda and indoctrination material. Because of past abuses of the educational system for the purpose of propagating atheist ideology and ideas, the great majority of Afghan fathers and mothers have lost faith in schools and secular education. Last but not least, in spite of its deep desire to activate the schooling system in the country, the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan has been facing great difficulties in securing the financial and physical resources needed to provide security for the schools, reconstruct school buildings, print new books, acquire the necessary materials and pay for qualified and dependable teachers.

The limited amount of resources at the disposal of the Islamic Emirate are being used to finance a war that has been imposed on Afghanistan by the brazen and open intervention of countries such as Iran, Russia, Uzbekistan and India. Intervention by these countries, and the resulting terrorist activities launched against the innocent men and women of Afghanistan by groups affiliated to these countries, have made the task of providing security for schools and public buildings, particularly girl's schools, extremely difficult.

Currently Operating Girls' Schools

Despite the limited economic resources of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan to fund educational institutes, universities in Qandahar, Kabul and Nangrahar provinces are operating as usual. Several NGOs have been allowed to fund schools in Afghanistan, besides the schools funded by the government.

Contrary to reports about girls education in the press, the figures obtained from the education sector in Afghanistan, reveal that girls education in rural Afghanistan is increasing. According to a survey conducted by the Swedish Committee for Afghanistan (SCA), almost 80 per cent of the girls schools located in rural areas under the administration of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan are operating in full swing. Ms. Pia Karlsson, education advisor at the Education Technical Support Unit (ETSU) of SCA, said in a recent interview published by the Frontier Post, a Peshawar based English daily that only in Ghazni province, where the Islamic Emirate under the leadership of TIMA has control for the last two years, approximately 85 per cent of the girls are still in schools. Ms. Karlsson says, "The picture outside the cities is totally different."

The SCA which has been supporting elementary education in Afghanistan since 1984, currently supports 422 boys schools, 125 girls schools and 897 mixed schools (co-education) in the forms of primary schools and home schools. During the survey, she concentrated on 100 SCA supported girls schools in the nine provinces: Kabul, Kunar, Laghman, Ningarhar, Ghzani, Logar, Paktika, Paktya and Wardak. All these provinces are under the administration of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan. According to the survey, female attendance was at 94 per cent and of the 7834 girls enrolled, 7341 were found present. More significantly, at least 170 female teachers were found teaching in these schools. Similarly, in Kunduz province, 122 schools are operating with 390 female teachers teaching at the schools. The Islamic Emirate is ready to open girls and boys schools with appropriate foreign assistance.

Female Health Sector

Health facilities for women have increased 200% during Taleban administration. Prior to the Taleban Islamic Movement's taking control of Kabul, there were 350 beds in all hospitals in Kabul. Currently, there are more than 950 beds for women in exclusive women's hospitals. Some hospitals which have specifically been allocated to women include Rabia Balkhi Hospital, Malali Hospital, Khair Khana Hospital, Indira Gandhi Child Health Hospital, Atta Turk Hospital, Kuwait Red Crescent Hospital, Contagious Disease Hospital and T.B. Hospital. Moreover, there are 32 mother and child health clinics. In addition to this, women receive treatment at ICRC and the Sandy Gal Orthopaedic Centers. In all these hospitals and clinics, women work as doctors and nurses to provide health services to female patients.

Now fall back again.
Reply

MTAFFI
04-04-2007, 06:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahdisoldier19
Hazara.net? Lol Are you kidding me?

Do you even know what the Hazaras did with Poshtuns?
What did the Poshtuns (Taliban) do to the Hazaras to incite such a hatred? The point is there were some who liked the Taliban, but there was also many who hated the Taliban, whether or not it was more or less is unfigurable so there is no point in arguing it. What I can argue are your statements on womens rights and unjust punishments. The Taliban was only not recognized by the international community because of these practices, and it cannot be refuted. You can post things all day that otherwise but the facts remain the same to me and everyone else who knows anything about the Taliban. As for your quotes they come from websites just as biased as the ones I post from, so I guess now would be the time I should say "Fall back", whatever that is supposed to mean :rollseyes
Reply

Muezzin
04-04-2007, 07:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MTAFFI
What did the Poshtuns (Taliban) do to the Hazaras to incite such a hatred?
You're not justifying the slaughter of women and children are you?
Reply

MTAFFI
04-04-2007, 07:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
You're not justifying the slaughter of women and children are you?
Absolutely not! My point in that statement is do you think that this would have happened had there not been a Taliban. It doesnt make it right, in fact it makes them no better than the Taliban.
Reply

Talha777
04-04-2007, 07:21 PM
The Taliban will win this war, insha Allah. They may be up against a more equipped and stronger military in terms of arms and weapons. But the Taliban are Muslims and have the willpower to endure harsh conditions of war for a long time. On the contrary, the forces of NATO are European infidels who cannot bear to pass one Christmas without their mothers. Nothing but cowards and babies. Look at the Canadian forces, everytime one or two Canadian soldiers die from American friendly fire, there is an uproar and the Canadians here say they want to bring their troops back home and put them out of harms way. If youre not prepared to give your life, don't join the military. Taliban will crush NATO and America, there is no doubt about that. Those who are on the side of Truth will always prevail. Those who are on the side of Satan will be eternally ****ed to hell.
Reply

MTAFFI
04-04-2007, 07:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Talha777
The Taliban will win this war, insha Allah. They may be up against a more equipped and stronger military in terms of arms and weapons. But the Taliban are Muslims and have the willpower to endure harsh conditions of war for a long time. On the contrary, the forces of NATO are European infidels who cannot bear to pass one Christmas without their mothers. Nothing but cowards and babies. Look at the Canadian forces, everytime one or two Canadian soldiers die from American friendly fire, there is an uproar and the Canadians here say they want to bring their troops back home and put them out of harms way. If youre not prepared to give your life, don't join the military. Taliban will crush NATO and America, there is no doubt about that. Those who are on the side of Truth will always prevail. Those who are on the side of Satan will be eternally ****ed to hell.
How will the Taliban win since they have already lost? They ran away into the mountains like cowards when the babies you call the US and NATO came to town. How many Americans or NATO have they even killed, not a fraction of the number they have lost. I am not worried about it anyways since they arent on the side of truth. You should pay heed to that last sentence
Reply

wilberhum
04-04-2007, 07:33 PM
Isn’t the Pashtun Hazaras conflict just another example of Sunni Shi'i sectarian violence?
Reply

MTAFFI
04-04-2007, 07:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Isn’t the Pashtun Hazaras conflict just another example of Sunni Shi'i sectarian violence?
yup
Reply

Muezzin
04-04-2007, 11:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MTAFFI
Absolutely not!
Awesome.

My point in that statement is do you think that this would have happened had there not been a Taliban. It doesnt make it right, in fact it makes them no better than the Taliban.
Okay. I see where you're coming from.
Reply

mahdisoldier19
04-05-2007, 06:50 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by MTAFFI
Absolutely not! My point in that statement is do you think that this would have happened had there not been a Taliban. It doesnt make it right, in fact it makes them no better than the Taliban.
Afghanistan is not a country you can understand by the media, so in this question. Have you even ever been to Afghanistan just answer that!
Reply

mahdisoldier19
04-05-2007, 06:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by MTAFFI
How will the Taliban win since they have already lost? They ran away into the mountains like cowards when the babies you call the US and NATO came to town. How many Americans or NATO have they even killed, not a fraction of the number they have lost. I am not worried about it anyways since they arent on the side of truth. You should pay heed to that last sentence
No they ran in the mountains to prepare and to present to the Poshtuns what the US and NATO will do for them in 5 years, and so far nothing had happened in the south, then the taliban were welcomed and revived.
Reply

MTAFFI
04-05-2007, 02:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mahdisoldier19
Afghanistan is not a country you can understand by the media, so in this question. Have you even ever been to Afghanistan just answer that!
Never thought I would be welcome there, however you can only play the media card so far, not everything shown through the media can be written off just because it is the media.
Reply

mahdisoldier19
04-05-2007, 10:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by MTAFFI
Never thought I would be welcome there, however you can only play the media card so far, not everything shown through the media can be written off just because it is the media.
Actually you would be very welcomed, i would welcome you to my home. It is poshtun culture, we are not evil. Just let us live the way we desire to live, do not force a lifestyle on us.
Reply

Ninth_Scribe
04-06-2007, 06:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
are al-qaeda gone from afghanistan? are the taliban? i think a lot of al-qaeda have gone to iraq to fight, but that's a separate issue.
Oh boys... the summer is coming (bad for us) and it happens to coincide with a major increase in Taliban incursions. I wouldn't want to have to fight in that area. Also, way too much emphasis is on what everyone thinks the Afghan people want, but the people say whatever is expected of them by whatever side stops them for questioning. Then, nature has a lot of sway with the people. A recent article concerning the Aids epidemic wound up helping the image of the Taliban for protecting the people from the illness.

Long cloistered by two decades of war and then the strict Islamic rule of the Taliban, Afghanistan was for many years shielded from the worst ravages of the AIDS pandemic. Not anymore.

Source: http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/03/18/news/afghan.php

While I'm sure the reporters didn't intend for their article to have this effect - ooops :)

Ninth Scribe
Reply

Keltoi
04-07-2007, 08:27 PM
NATO troops seize Taliban stronghold...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070407/...hern_offensive
Reply

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