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Sinbad
04-04-2007, 01:13 AM
Allah had other religions before islam came didnt he?

I belong to a religion wich is based on an even older religion. The religion of the one god. Is it possible that this one god is the same one god muhammed talked about?

The Avesta are the oldest scriptures talking about messiahs, heaven and hell, one god, angels et c. Some texts like arash the archer goes back 8000 years. Zoroaster came back talking about the comming 3 messiahs, born from virgin mothers of gods seed.

And he predicted one, that will be born 1000 years later under the star of david. 1000 years later 3 zoroastrian priests followed the star and there was gods messenger Jesus. You can find it in the bible they even say "predicted by the prophet".

Quote from the KJV bible. Book of matthew.
[1] Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
[2] Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
[3] When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.
[4] And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
[5] And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,

The prediction was in the Avesta,

A Zoroaster converted into muslim said that there was an avesta mentioning Muhammed as the finall prophet. The Avestas are not neatly kept in a book as in islam, it is many texts, all are mostly lost, some are kept, the oldest from around 8000 years ago.

If judaism is also gods religion, or a people of the book. Then can Zoroastrianism be it to? I mean, it is more like islam than judaism. "Good Thoughts, Good Words, Good deeds", and its the oldest religion mentioning one and only god, angels, heaven and hell "the beginning and the end".
Its also not racist as judaism only restricted to Jews.

So my point is, is it possible that Zoroastrianism can be one of the religions of god before muhammed that islam speaks of?
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back_to_faith
04-04-2007, 02:21 AM
Originally Posted by Sinbad
Allah had other religions before islam came didnt he?

I belong to a religion wich is based on an even older religion. The religion of the one god. Is it possible that this one god is the same one god muhammed talked about?

The Avesta are the oldest scriptures talking about messiahs, heaven and hell, one god, angels et c. Some texts like arash the archer goes back 8000 years. Zoroaster came back talking about the comming 3 messiahs, born from virgin mothers of gods seed.

And he predicted one, that will be born 1000 years later under the star of david. 1000 years later 3 zoroastrian priests followed the star and there was gods messenger Jesus. You can find it in the bible they even say "predicted by the prophet".

Quote from the KJV bible. Book of matthew.
[1] Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
[2] Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
[3] When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.
[4] And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
[5] And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,

The prediction was in the Avesta,

A Zoroaster converted into muslim said that there was an avesta mentioning Muhammed as the finall prophet. The Avestas are not neatly kept in a book as in islam, it is many texts, all are mostly lost, some are kept, the oldest from around 8000 years ago.

If judaism is also gods religion, or a people of the book. Then can Zoroastrianism be it to? I mean, it is more like islam than judaism. "Good Thoughts, Good Words, Good deeds", and its the oldest religion mentioning one and only god, angels, heaven and hell "the beginning and the end".
Its also not racist as judaism only restricted to Jews.

So my point is, is it possible that Zoroastrianism can be one of the religions of god before muhammed that islam speaks of?


Greetings,

Zoroastrianism can never be one of the religions God have revealed through inspiration
.and you offered us the proof when you said:

Zoroaster came back talking about the comming 3 messiahs, born from virgin mothers of gods seed.
And he predicted one, that will be born 1000 years later under the star of david. 1000 years later 3 zoroastrian priests followed the star and there was gods messenger Jesus.

If that is right and If the people from your religion said as in Matthew

(Where is he that is born King of the Jews?)
that means that Zoroaster made a false prophecy.because Jesus never been a king to the Jews .
really interesting to prove not only the new testament not the word of God but the religion of ahora mazda to be false too.


peace
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جوري
04-04-2007, 02:27 AM
Welcome Sinbad

I have always been curious about the burial practices of Zoroastrians. can you please tell me if it is true that you have these towers of silence? if that is still a practice carried on today? and where in Iran exactly are most of the Zoroastrians concentrated? Also if there are Zoroastrians outside of Iran? Also if a follower of your religion dies abroad do they have to be shipped home? Also can you tell us something about your calendar? and what you celebrate and worship?
thank you
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snakelegs
04-04-2007, 02:35 AM
sinbad,
welcome to the forum. it's cool to have a zoroastrian here. a first, i believe.
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جوري
04-04-2007, 02:38 AM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
sinbad,
welcome to the forum. it's cool to have a zorastrian here. a first, i believe.
I am afraid we scared him off? :X
Should have have limited myself to a Q per day ha? lol
I have never come across a Zoroastrian before-- and I consider myself reasonably well traveled-- I hope this thread proves interesting.... :-[
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back_to_faith
04-04-2007, 02:39 AM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
sinbad,
welcome to the forum. it's cool to have a zoroastrian here. a first, i believe.

Here one of the best sources about zoroastrians online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrians
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wilberhum
04-04-2007, 02:47 AM
I am afraid we scared him off
When the first post to this thread that he started was a hard slam he may have thought there were more fun places to be.
I hope this thread proves interesting.
I agree, I hope he comes back.
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snakelegs
04-04-2007, 02:52 AM
Originally Posted by back_to_faith
Here one of the best sources about zoroastrians online http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrians
thanks - but it's not the same as interacting with one.


I am afraid we scared him off?
Should have have limited myself to a Q per day ha? lol
I have never come across a Zoroastrian before-- and I consider myself reasonably well traveled-- I hope this thread proves interesting....
.

i think he'll be back - he may have found something more interesting to do.
Reply

جوري
04-04-2007, 02:53 AM
Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
I am afraid we scared him off? :X .
Originally Posted by wilberhum
When the first post to this thread that he started was a hard slam he may have thought there were more fun places to be.
How come you never have/find a more fun place to be?
Reply

wilberhum
04-04-2007, 03:02 AM
How come you never have/find a more fun place to be?
Because this is as fun as it gets. :D At least for an outcast that enjoys harmless insults. :?
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جوري
04-04-2007, 03:14 AM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Because this is as fun as it gets. :D At least for an outcast that enjoys harmless insults. :?
Indeed you have grown on everyone like a tuft of hair over a spina bifida occulta.... But I hardly see you as an outcast... you are very much an insider.......

here here for the newbies :giggling:
Reply

wilberhum
04-04-2007, 03:24 AM
Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
Indeed you have grown on everyone like a tuft of hair over a spina bifida occulta.... But I hardly see you as an outcast... you are very much an insider.......

here here for the newbies :giggling:
Now, now, don't destroy my image. :skeleton:
If I say "I'm an outsider", then "I'm an outsider".
I had not received a harmless insult I could enjoy for days.
That is why I quoted you. I knew that you would give me my daily supply. :D

Enjoy but lets not scare off the Zoroastrian. This thread is for him, not us.
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Sinbad
04-04-2007, 08:10 PM
But what are you saying? Zoroastrianism cant be a part of pre islamic religions of god, but judaism can? Islam and Zoroastrianism has A LOT incommon, judaism and islam has nothing incommon.

I belive that Zoroastrianism is islam before muhammed, You see muhammed brought back an old one god religion, i belive it could be zoroastrianism

Out Calendar is very intressting, the ancient persians knew that the earth was round, and they know that the sun was in the center of the universe et c.

Persian new year, or "nevrous" is based on it, you calculate when at the exact time the eart will be in position to make the days longer than the nights, thats how spring starts. Christian new year, is the same day everey time, even if the years become longer everey year cause the earth changes moves.
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Talha777
04-04-2007, 08:16 PM
But what are you saying? Zoroastrianism cant be a part of pre islamic religions of god, but judaism can? Islam and Zoroastrianism has A LOT incommon, judaism and islam has nothing incommon.
I belive that Zoroastrianism is islam before muhammed, You see muhammed brought back an old one god religion, i belive it could be zoroastrianism
Out Calendar is very intressting, the ancient persians knew that the earth was round, and they know that the sun was in the center of the universe et c.
Persian new year, or "nevrous" is based on it, you calculate when at the exact time the eart will be in position to make the days longer than the nights, thats how spring starts. Christian new year, is the same day everey time, even if the years become longer everey year cause the earth changes moves.
If Zoroastrianism is the true religion, why dont they allow converts, and why are they in danger of dissapearing altogether? Zoroastrianism is not really a religion per se, it is a cultural identity. If the Greeks hadn't been Christianized they would still probably believe in their Olympian deities, and it would become politically incorrect to write books about Greek "Mythology". Islam has nothing in common with the fire-worshipping cult. Zarusthra may or may not have been a Prophet, Allah Taala knows best about that, but if he was, the religion he taught was nothing but Islam. Islam is the true and original religion, judaism, christianity, and zoroastrianism are manmade religions.
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Trumble
04-04-2007, 08:38 PM
Originally Posted by Talha777
Islam is the true and original religion, judaism, christianity, and zoroastrianism are manmade religions.
All religions are man-made. They are just different ways of approaching the same ultimate reality, as far as mankind is able.
Reply

جوري
04-04-2007, 08:45 PM
Abrahamic religions aren't man made!... Now, can we please stay on the topic of Zoroastrianism for the purpose of learning not a heated debate... we can start the "man-made religions" on some other thread...

Sinbad can you tell us of the burial rituals of Zoroastrians and of their significance pls
thank you
Reply

Sinbad
04-05-2007, 08:48 AM
Originally Posted by Talha777
If Zoroastrianism is the true religion, why dont they allow converts, and why are they in danger of dissapearing altogether? Zoroastrianism is not really a religion per se, it is a cultural identity. If the Greeks hadn't been Christianized they would still probably believe in their Olympian deities, and it would become politically incorrect to write books about Greek "Mythology". Islam has nothing in common with the fire-worshipping cult. Zarusthra may or may not have been a Prophet, Allah Taala knows best about that, but if he was, the religion he taught was nothing but Islam. Islam is the true and original religion, judaism, christianity, and zoroastrianism are manmade religions.
First of all Zoroastrians accept converts, that they dont is a lie, just as muslims belive 9/11 was a gift of god. Second of all dont call my religion fire worshipping cult, you must learn to respect other people. shame on you.

Yes zoroastrianism is fying out, it gets more and more members but its not real zoroastrians, only people sick of the islamic regime and want the old persian religion.

Zoroastrianism isnt needed now that christianity is here.
http://www.geocities.com/barnabas_yohannes/magi.htm

You see, Zoroaster predicted Jesus, the 3 wise men where zoroastrians. Christianity and Zoroaster are proven to be connected. Now islam, how does islam fit in to this? There is no bridge to have a direct connection between christianity and islam. Bt still muslims belive it cause of faith.

Faith is all that religion is about, but its not proof like christ and zoroaster.

So please dont call my religion fire worshipping cult, and just saying its not gods religion when its proven, if islam is gods religion is still debateball for me, but thats why im here to find out.
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DAWUD_adnan
04-05-2007, 09:27 AM
Originally Posted by Sinbad
First of all Zoroastrians accept converts, that they dont is a lie, just as muslims belive 9/11 was a gift of god. Second of all dont call my religion fire worshipping cult, you must learn to respect other people. shame on you.

Yes zoroastrianism is fying out, it gets more and more members but its not real zoroastrians, only people sick of the islamic regime and want the old persian religion.

Zoroastrianism isnt needed now that christianity is here.
http://www.geocities.com/barnabas_yohannes/magi.htm

You see, Zoroaster predicted Jesus, the 3 wise men where zoroastrians. Christianity and Zoroaster are proven to be connected. Now islam, how does islam fit in to this? There is no bridge to have a direct connection between christianity and islam. Bt still muslims belive it cause of faith.

Faith is all that religion is about, but its not proof like christ and zoroaster.

So please dont call my religion fire worshipping cult, and just saying its not gods religion when its proven, if islam is gods religion is still debateball for me, but thats why im here to find out.
hMM..., My friend, Moses perdicted jesus, so did David, solomon etc. Zorro may (in your opinion) have perdicted jesus, but jesus perdicted Muhammad (SAW), as did Moses. Did moses perdict zorro? did jesus confirm and say im the one Zorro perdicted?

Friend, you have confirmed my religion true, There is No God but Allah(The One and Only True God who is neither male nor female, Who Has no comparison,and is Beyond everything) and Muhammad(SAW) is His LAST AND FINAL MESSENGER.
:)
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------
04-05-2007, 09:29 AM
:salamext:

Islâm was the first religion on earth. Adam (AS) was a Muslim.

Peace.
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Sinbad
04-05-2007, 10:19 AM
Thats the thing, there is said to be a zoroastrian avesta predicting muhammed thats why a zoroastrian i talked to converted into islam. He said that Muhammed was the last messenger of the only god.

But how can you reject an 8000 year old religion, much older than judaism that speaks of one god, and heaven, and angels? The word Paradise comes from zoroastrian paradise. And Magi means zoroastrian imams.

And Islam speaks of older religions from allah before islam came.

So how can you just reject zoroastrianism and embrace judaism if the latter has nothing incommon with islam?
Reply

Talha777
04-05-2007, 12:30 PM
So how can you just reject zoroastrianism and embrace judaism if the latter has nothing incommon with islam?
Who said we embrace Judaism? We reject all false religions.

First of all Zoroastrians accept converts, that they dont is a lie, just as muslims belive 9/11 was a gift of god
9/11 was indeed a gift from Allah Taala.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroast...haracteristics
Proselytizing and conversion: Parsi Zoroastrians do not proselytize. In recent years, however, Zoroastrian communities in both Iran, Europe and the Americas have been more tolerant towards conversion. While this move has not been supported officially by the priesthood in Mumbai, India, it has been endorsed by the Council of Mobeds in Tehran.
only people sick of the islamic regime and want the old persian religion.
Why are they sick of the Islamic regime? This is perhaps the best thing which has happened to Iran since it was conquered under Hazrat Umar Farooq (Razi Allah anho).
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Sinbad
04-05-2007, 12:59 PM
You reject all false religions? Didnt muhammed say that they are the book of the people and worshipp the same god?

Why are they sick of the Islamic regime? This is perhaps the best thing which has happened to Iran since it was conquered under Hazrat Umar Farooq (Razi Allah anho).[/QUOTE]

Zoroastrians do accept converts, the reason its been closed is cause of years of persecution. The indian zoroastrians dont get to, cause when they fled the islamic invation east they promised the king to not mix with the locals, and even today they stick to that promise.

Cause the islamic republic cares more about other nations. You know how much money they give to Hezbollah and Hamas? Entire Lebanon is working cause of Iranian aid so does Palestine. Just to help "fellow muslims" as the quaran says. And how do they thank us? They love Saddam and say death to the arabs enemies, Israel, USA and IRAN.

You see, Iran was always a super power before Islam, Iran defeated the Roman Empire while fighting turkish invadors in the north, Iran was destroyed and suddenly the arabic tribes united and just like the mongols united tribes are strong. After islam in Iran Iran has always been an averege nation.

Care to explain this? "Hazrat Umar Farooq (Razi Allah anho)", remember im not a muslim.
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Sinbad
04-05-2007, 01:01 PM
Originally Posted by DAWUD_adnan
have perdicted jesus, but jesus perdicted Muhammad (SAW), as did Moses.
what? i have a bible, where does that say?
Reply

Talha777
04-05-2007, 01:15 PM
You reject all false religions? Didnt muhammed say that they are the book of the people and worshipp the same god?
No our Holy Prophet (Sall Allahu alaihi wa salaam) didn't say that.

Zoroastrians do accept converts, the reason its been closed is cause of years of persecution. The indian zoroastrians dont get to, cause when they fled the islamic invation east they promised the king to not mix with the locals, and even today they stick to that promise.
Then what kind of religion is Zoroastrianism? Is this king who is no longer around their god who dictates to them their beliefs and practices? Some king centuries ago tells the zoroastrians not to mix with the local people, and they make it an article of their religion, how ridiculous. Dont you realize that your religion is false and has absolutely no spiritual power whatsoever. Your numbers are declining, to the extent that there are barely 20 thousand Zoroastrians in Iran, which has been the homeland of zoroastrians for over three millenia!

On the other hand Allah Taala has promised in the Holy Quran in Surah an-Nasr that people will enter Islam in swarms, and we can see today that the True Religion has spread to the extermities of the Earth and is the fastest growing faith in the world.

Cause the islamic republic cares more about other nations. You know how much money they give to Hezbollah and Hamas? Entire Lebanon is working cause of Iranian aid so does Palestine. Just to help "fellow muslims" as the quaran says. And how do they thank us? They love Saddam and say death to the arabs enemies, Israel, USA and IRAN.
Yes Islam is a religion which emphasizes charity and helping your brothers. Iran is doing a marvelous job supporting their Muslim brothers in the Middle East who are suffering at hands of the infidels. Muslims should be willing to sacrifice their own comfort and luxury for the sake of their brothers who need it more. Zoroastrians will never understand this concept, to them looking after number one is more important, but Islam has taught us to know better. Israel and America are the enemies of all Muslims, including Iranian Muslims.

Care to explain this? "Hazrat Umar Farooq (Razi Allah anho)", remember im not a muslim.
Hazrat Umar (Razi Allahu anho) was the second khalifa of the Muslims. During his khilafat the pagan Persians invaded the Muslim settlement of Hilla in modern day Iraq. The pagan Persians invaded with an army of 120 thousand, but the Muslims were only able to raise an army of 30 thousand to defend themselves. But because Allah Taala is on the side of the Muslims, He helped give us victory at the famous Battle of Qadisiyah in 636 CE (Subhan Allah). 25 thousand of the Persians were killed, but only 5 thousand Muslims were martyred. This great victory was the beginning of the Muslim conquest of Persia, and the fruits of Muslim victory some 1400 years ago result in Iran being an Islamic state today.
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Sinbad
04-05-2007, 01:29 PM
Then what kind of religion is Zoroastrianism? Is this king who is no longer around their god who dictates to them their beliefs and practices? Some king centuries ago tells the zoroastrians not to mix with the local people, and they make it an article of their religion, how ridiculous. Dont you realize that your religion is false and has absolutely no spiritual power whatsoever. Your numbers are declining, to the extent that there are barely 20 thousand Zoroastrians in Iran, which has been the homeland of zoroastrians for over three millenia!

On the other hand Allah Taala has promised in the Holy Quran in Surah an-Nasr that people will enter Islam in swarms, and we can see today that the True Religion has spread to the extermities of the Earth and is the fastest growing faith in the world.


Zoroastrianism is more of an awaiting thing, 3 messiahs was comming one of them Jesus, when they started comming people must follow them, the prophets of the only god. Zoroastrianism is much like judaism, some say that the prophets havent come some say they have thats why zoroastrianism is falling, people are saying that Jesus, and islam are the awaited religions.

Zoroastrianism can be shorted into this. Good deeds, Good words, Good thoughts. It tells you to be a good person, and that there is only one god, and that he will send prophets that you shall follow.

Yes Islam is a religion which emphasizes charity and helping your brothers. Iran is doing a marvelous job supporting their Muslim brothers in the Middle East who are suffering at hands of the infidels. Muslims should be willing to sacrifice their own comfort and luxury for the sake of their brothers who need it more. Zoroastrians will never understand this concept, to them looking after number one is more important, but Islam has taught us to know better. Israel and America are the enemies of all Muslims, including Iranian Muslims.

But still they hate Iranians cause they are not arabs. And love Saddam Hussein that killed 3 million Iranians by bombings and evereyone are talking about 300.000 kurds!

They have food on the table cause of Iran, and they thank Iran by hating Iran...

Hazrat Umar (Razi Allahu anho) was the second khalifa of the Muslims. During his khilafat the pagan Persians invaded the Muslim settlement of Hilla in modern day Iraq. The pagan Persians invaded with an army of 120 thousand, but the Muslims were only able to raise an army of 30 thousand to defend themselves. But because Allah Taala is on the side of the Muslims, He helped give us victory at the famous Battle of Qadisiyah in 636 CE (Subhan Allah). 25 thousand of the Persians were killed, but only 5 thousand Muslims were martyred. This great victory was the beginning of the Muslim conquest of Persia, and the fruits of Muslim victory some 1400 years ago result in Iran being an Islamic state today.[/QUOTE]

That is a very good achievment, the Sassanid Persian had an advanced millitary, crossbows, elite knight wich later became the euopean knights, with armour of steel even on the horse. Doctrines wich made the Roman Empire run scared from the holy land and asia minor.

30.000 arabic tribesmen with nothing but swords defeating a sassanid persian army in 120.000 is a great achievment, makes you wonder if islam is thrue.
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Talha777
04-05-2007, 01:33 PM
But still they hate Iranians cause they are not arabs. And love Saddam Hussein that killed 3 million Iranians by bombings and evereyone are talking about 300.000 kurds!

They have food on the table because of Iran, and they thank Iran by hating Iran...
Who are "they"? The Muslims throughout the world are more than grateful to Iran. Saddam Hussein was a puppet of the West. He believed in Arab nationalism, just like you believe in persian nationalism. But Imam Khomeini believed in Islam, and in Islam there is no nationalism. Now we can see throughout the Arab world that pan-arab nationalism is falling apart, now only secular rich women in the middle east believe in nationalism.
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Sinbad
04-05-2007, 01:42 PM
Haha Imam Khomeni had an indian father, i think he was sunni from western india. his mother was persian. He called himself a muslim. Pretty funny mix.

Pan-arabism falling appart? thats good for you, it will mean that the islamic world can unite just as it did during the crusades, saladin was a kurd, he saw also only muslim. If you forgett about pan-arabism it will be very good for the islamic world but bad for the rest.
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Talha777
04-05-2007, 03:23 PM
Haha Imam Khomeni had an indian father, i think he was sunni from western india. his mother was persian. He called himself a muslim. Pretty funny mix.

Pan-arabism falling appart? thats good for you, it will mean that the islamic world can unite just as it did during the crusades, saladin was a kurd, he saw also only muslim. If you forgett about pan-arabism it will be very good for the islamic world but bad for the rest.
Yes he was a Muslim, it makes no difference if his father was indian. (Actually his father wasn't indian). Because Islam is a universal religion, it has nothing to do with where you are from. I myself am Pakistani not Arab, but that doesnt matter, we are all Muslims by the grace of Allah. Salahuddin Ayyubi was a great Muslim hero, people are sometimes surprised that he was Kurdish and not Arab. In fact the great muhaditheen like Imam Bukhari were mostly Persian. When Muslims are cured of the disease of nationalism we will rise again and become a formidable force, insha Allah.
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Umar001
04-05-2007, 03:34 PM
As an advice to myself and then others.

When a person speaks on a subject in which the one being spoken to might not know the background, it is good for the speaker to use simple terms and to be clear and explain things.

Saying all religions are false can confuse someone who does not know the Islamic background.
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