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Sinbad
04-05-2007, 01:15 PM
I have always been curious to why its called arabic and islamic sciense.
First of all, its mostly persians that are the inventors, Razi, Algebra, et c i would say 80% where persians. Then we have atheists and oer religions, Razi was an atheist.

So how can these be arabic or islamic sciense? I dont belive you can give religion or nations the claim of sciense, cause its an internationall thing. Not a religous or national.
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Pk_#2
04-05-2007, 02:12 PM
mate what does this say > sciense?

aight l8a
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Sinbad
04-05-2007, 02:23 PM
sciense, its evereything, from medecine, to physics, its knowledge that can be proven wrong and is always expanding. scientist are people that bring in new things to the world
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Pk_#2
04-05-2007, 02:25 PM
oh seen, "science" why didn't you say, wait 'till sir.Zubair comes on... 'And i thought i was bad...'

tk m8y
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AhlaamBella
04-05-2007, 02:31 PM
^^^ very helpful sis lol.

Well Sinbad, whilst the world was in the early stages of discovering science, muslims made A LOT of progress inventing/discovering a vast amount of knowledge which is accepted today.
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Pk_#2
04-05-2007, 02:36 PM
Woopsy i do apologise bro,

yeah what the clever sis said, and erm just open the Qur'an and read inshaAllah (God willing)
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AhlaamBella
04-05-2007, 02:44 PM
Here are a few verses from the Quran that are science related:

013.002
YUSUFALI: Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; is firmly established on the throne (of authority); He has subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law)! Each one runs (its course) for a term appointed. He doth regulate all affairs, explaining the signs in detail, that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord.

023.014
YUSUFALI: Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be Allah, the best to create!

^^^ I love this ayah. It is a perfect example of the many miracles in the Quran!

Any more you want me find?
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Sinbad
04-05-2007, 04:05 PM
023.014
YUSUFALI: Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be Allah, the best to create!

^^^ I love this ayah. It is a perfect example of the many miracles in the Quran!

Any more you want me find?


Well that is more common sence, thats not sciense, you know t was that way cause people didnt get pregnant before sex, and you knew the prosses by studying it. The ancient babylonians knew how to operate an eye. The egyptians knew how to bring out the brain. Islam didnt add that in. Then we got the thing that the earth is round and the sun is in the center of the solar system, evereyone already knew that. You studied the stars, it was only that the catholic churchs took it away in europe. The romans and greeks knew that to.
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Sinbad
04-05-2007, 04:06 PM
Back to topic, why call it arab inventions when most where not even arabs. Why call it islamic inventions when al razi the creator of modern medecine was an atheist et c?

Why mixing sciense with religion?
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AhlaamBella
04-05-2007, 04:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sinbad
023.014
YUSUFALI: Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then we made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be Allah, the best to create!

^^^ I love this ayah. It is a perfect example of the many miracles in the Quran!

Any more you want me find?


Well that is more common sence, thats not sciense, you know t was that way cause people didnt get pregnant before sex, and you knew the prosses by studying it. The ancient babylonians knew how to operate an eye. The egyptians knew how to bring out the brain. Islam didnt add that in. Then we got the thing that the earth is round and the sun is in the center of the solar system, evereyone already knew that. You studied the stars, it was only that the catholic churchs took it away in europe. The romans and greeks knew that to.

I can't help but add that the prophet s.a.w was ILLITERATE and in the middle of a desert. how did he know about the foetus? in the 1600s?
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Sinbad
04-05-2007, 04:27 PM
Cause someone had "the talk" with him? Maybe he knew better than the stork comming with babies?

Can i ask whats up with your avatar? Dosent muslims hate dogs?
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AhlaamBella
04-05-2007, 04:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sinbad
Cause someone had "the talk" with him? Maybe he knew better than the stork comming with babies?
Now your just being silly.

format_quote Originally Posted by Sinbad
Can i ask whats up with your avatar? Dosent muslims hate dogs?
Now who is changing the subject? Anyway I'll humour you: a dog is a creation of Allah. Just like you are. And I don't have the dog living in my house (which keeps the angels away), so what is your point exactly?
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akulion
04-05-2007, 04:32 PM
you can read about Muslim inventions and contributions to humanity on this page:

http://muslimheritage.com
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جوري
04-05-2007, 04:43 PM
This again.... I have pages upon pages on Islamic science that was even stolen by the likes of Copernicus though he didn't plagiarize correctly from Muslim scientests... the latest lecture was given by Dr. George Saliba of Columbia University... He isn't even Muslim to take such interests...

I think you should all buy his book -- but here is another guy who took some excerpts from his book



ISLAMIC SCIENCE


Author: Ilias Fernini

Preface of the Book

The rewriting of the history of Islamic science is now receiving large attention both from Muslim and non-Muslim scientists after a lack of interest that lasted almost a century after the fall of the Islamic empire. It is indeed quite inconceivable to know little about scholars who, during more than ten centuries, wrote in all branches of science, at a time when the whole of the Western world was in its deep darkness.

It is often well emphasized that Muslims received inherited Greek knowledge with great consideration. What is less known, however, is that they did not not restrict themselves to saving it and then passing it intact to future generations, they in fact enlarged and enriched it with new and original ideas. It can be said, without any doubt, that the whole of Greek learning was completely rethought by the Muslims and that without this renovation, the Western renaissance could not have come about.

In our present time, it is very astonishing to note that the Islamic contribution to civilization is often undermined by the West despite the fact that in several cases, medieval Western scholars diligently imitated, copied and plagiarized the works of Muslim scientists. In 1979, a historian of the Frankfurt University won the First King Faisal Foundation Prize for Islamic scholarship; his work showed that in the 12th century, a decree was issued in Seville, forbidding the sale of scientific writings to Christians because the latter translated the writings and simply published them under another name. The research work of this historian has taken him 30 years of his life and required a survey of more than 1.5 million Arabic manuscripts.

In another example, it has been shown at an international symposium on the subject " East and West in the Middle Ages" held in 1969, that in the third book of Copernicus' On the Revolution of the Heavenly spheres," in the chapter (iv) " How the reciprocal movement of libration is composed of circular movements," the basic lemma was taken from the work of the famous Persian mathematician, Nasir al-Din al-Tusi.



The achievements of Muslim scientists in astronomy, physics, biology, medicine, chemistry, and mathematics are poorly known. Many of the known achievements are attributed to Western scientists. For example, the discovery and the whole concept of planetary motion is attributed to Kepler and Copernicus while not crediting the contribution of Ibn Al-Shatir, the Damascene astronomer (1304-1375 A.D) who, among his works, wrote a major book entitled " Kitab Nihayat al-Sul fi Tashih al-Usul" ( A Final Inquiry Concerning the Rectification of Planetary Theory) on a theory which departs largely from the Ptolemaic system known at that time. In his book " Ibn al-Shatir, an Arab astronomer of the fourteenth century, E.S.Kennedy wrote " what is of most interest, however, is that Ibn al-Shatir's lunar theory, except for trivial differences in parameters, is identical with that of Copernicus (1473-1543 A.D)." The discovery that the models of Ibn al-Shatir are mathematically identical to those of Copernicus raised the very interesting question of a possible transmission of these models to Europe.

A scholar such as Nasir al-Din al-Tusi (1201-1274 A.D) should also be mentioned when discussing the planetary models of Copernicus. Al-Tusi's best known works in astronomy are the " Ilkhani Tables" and the Tadhkirah". The latter is the most thorough criticism of Ptolemaic astronomy and presents the only new mathematical model of planetary motion to appear in Medieval times. Kennedy wrote a note about al-Tusi's planetary model saying : al-Tusi seems to have been the first to notice that if one circle rolls around inside the circumference of another, the second circle having twice the radius of the first, then any point on the periphery of the first circle describes a diameter of the second. This rolling device can also be regarded as a linkage of two equal and constant length vectors rotating at constant speed (one twice as fast as the other) . This has been the Tusi-couple. Nasir al-Din, by properly placing such a couple at the end of a vector emanating from the Ptolemaic equant center caused the vector to periodically expand and contract. The period of its expansion being equal to that of the epicycle's rotation about the Earth, the end-point of the couple carries the epicycle center with it and traces out a deferent which fulfills all the conditions imposed upon it by Ptolemy's observations. At the same time, the whole assemblage is a combination of uniform circular motions, hence unobjectionable, and it preserves the equant property, also demanded by the phenomenon itself." This planetary model most likely influenced Copernicus through Byzantine intermediaries and, with the work of al-Tusi's followers, contains all the novelty of Copernicus's astronomy except the heliocentric hypothesis.

Al-Battani, another Muslim astronomer, is to be credited for the discovery of the movement of the sun's apogee, the evaluation with great precision of the ecliptic's obliquity, and its progressive diminution. Contrary to Ptolemy, al-Battani proved the variation of the apparent angular diameter of the sun, and the possibility of annular solar eclipses. The indebtedness of Copernicus to al-Battani is well known. He quotes him fairly often especially in matters dealing with the problems of solar motion and of precession. The Baghdad School noted the irregularity of the Moon's highest altitude and discovered a third lunar inequality, known by the name of lunar variation. This was discovered by Abu'l Wafa (a crater on the Moon is named after him) and is wrongly attributed to the Danish scholar, Tycho Brahe, who lived six centuries after Abu'l Wafa. The introduction to spherical astronomy was with al-Battani. He was the first to use in his works the expression sine" and " cosine" The introduction to trigonometry of these concepts proved to be of capital importance. This was credited to Regimontanus who lived five centuries after al-Battani. Another Muslim astronomer, al-Bitruji, considered Ptolemy's system to be mathematically not physical regarding the order of the spheres of the inferior planets. Finally, we should also mention al-Mahani (b.860 A.D) who was able to predict three lunar eclipses within an half hour's accuracy.

These are only a few examples of the achievements astronomy. Other examples exist in other fields as well. It is an important task now to reconsider this tremendous heritage, since Islamic science has not yet gained its rightful place. The scientific achievements of Muslim scholars in medieval time have yet to be fully recognized and duly appreciated in the West.

It will be very unjust from our part to state that the history of Islamic science has been completely neglected. Scholars like H. Suter, C. Brockelmann, H.P.J. Renaud, M. Krause, G. Sarton, J. Sedillot, F. Woepcke, C.A. Nallino, 0. Neugebauer, E.S. Kennedy, A.P. Youschkevitch, B.A. Rosenfeld, 0. Gingerich, D.A. King, A. Sayili, and many others have contributed a lot to our present knowledge of Muslim scholars of medieval times. Original manuscripts have been translated and analyzed after careful identifications by Muslim and non-Muslim historians. Many libraries and museums over all the world hold thousands of these manuscripts still awaiting detailed studies necessary to grasp the full importance of Islamic science. The task can be difficult for the historian of science since many of the works do not exist in their original Arabic forms. Some Latin translations are just pure literary translations without any regards to the scientific contents. This has brought about some scientific inconsistencies with what is known from different other sources putting in doubt the contribution of some important Muslim scholars.

When still a graduate student, I was attracted by the history of science in medieval Islam because I felt that some injustice is being done to al-Biruni, al-Khwarizmi, Ibn al-Haytham, Nasir al-Din al-Tusi, al-Tabari, al-Farghani Ibn al-Shatir, al-Kashi, and so many others regarding their contribution to our present knowledge of science. It is difficult to realize the place of Islamic science since the available sources are so widely spread and the information so widely different. When I started my research, I felt the need to have a document with all the answers to my questions, but I could not find one. Many important works exist on the contributions of Muslim scholars, but most of them are either outdated or in a language that cannot help the reader to grasp the full importance of these scholars. This is where this new bibliography falls in. It should first be noted that this book is mainly a bibliographical research. Most of the information exists elsewhere and has been reported here with full credit. The main purpose of this work is to have a handy document for easy reference, while the sophisticated reader is urged to refer to the main original article or to the tremendous secondary references for a deep study. In all cases, this first edition is a tentative approach to the history of Islamic science and the list of scholars reported is by no means complete.

I hope that you will enjoy reading this bibliography as much as I enjoyed writing it. I will be glad to hear from the readers, and I invite you to send me your reactions to the book and suggestions for how I can improve future editions. You can send your comments to the address given in my homepage
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Sinbad
04-05-2007, 04:53 PM
WHY ARE YOU IGNORING MY QUESTONS!

ALL THESE ISLAMIC ACHIEVMENTS WHERE MADE BY PERSIANS! SOME NOT EVEN MUSLIMS

Nasir al-Din Muhammad ibn Muhammad ibn Hasan al-Tusi (Persian: خواجه نصیر طوسی‎ (1201–1274) was a Persian of Shi'a Twelver Islamic belief, born in Tus, Khorasan, Iran. He is known as a philosopher, mathematician, astronomer, theologian, physician, and a prolific writer, i.e., he was a polymath.
K. N. Toosi University of Technology in Iran is named after him.
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akulion
04-05-2007, 04:57 PM
great articles
Muslims sure did invent so many things masha'Allah
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Sinbad
04-05-2007, 05:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by akulion
great articles
Muslims sure did invent so many things masha'Allah
DEAR AKULION THE GREAT ARABIC ISLAMIC AL RAZI

Asked if a philosopher can follow a prophetically revealed religion, al-Razi frankly replies:
How can anyone think philosophically while listening to old wives' tales founded on contradictions, which obdurate ignorance, and dogmatism?
Gentility of character, friendliness and purity of mind, are found in those who are capable of thinking profoundly on abstruse matters and scientific minutiae.
Man should hasten to protect himself from love before succumbing to it and cleanse his soul from it when he falls.

AL RAZI AND OTHER ARABIC ISLAMIC SCIENTIST KEEP EXPRESSING THEIR HATE TOWARDS ISLAM. Im beginnign to become a muslim myself, i begin to doubt zoroaster.

BUT STILL THESE ISLAMIC SCIENTIST HATED ISLAM! How can you say muslim contributtion?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Razi#Quotes_from_Rhazes
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جوري
04-05-2007, 05:17 PM
"Al"l? I'd have to beg to differ besides that-- what difference does it make where from? if they were Muslim? There is no Nationalism in Islam!
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Sinbad
04-05-2007, 05:20 PM
I know but still, there are some pan-arabist saying arabic invenstion even if theyre mostly persian. Then we have islamic inventions, but they are many non muslims.

There are no christian invenstions, galilleo galillei would probably laugh at religion just like al razi if he could. No religion can claim sciense, and sadly many muslims say islamic contributions.
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جوري
04-05-2007, 05:21 PM
I don't have much time but here are a few who weren't persian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_al-Haitham

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Idrisi
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iqbal_soofi
04-05-2007, 05:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sinbad
WHY ARE YOU IGNORING MY QUESTONS!

ALL THESE ISLAMIC ACHIEVMENTS WHERE MADE BY PERSIANS! SOME NOT EVEN MUSLIMS

Nasir al-Din Muhammad ibn Muhammad ibn Hasan al-Tusi (Persian: خواجه نصیر طوسی‎ (1201–1274) was a Persian of Shi'a Twelver Islamic belief, born in Tus, Khorasan, Iran. He is known as a philosopher, mathematician, astronomer, theologian, physician, and a prolific writer, i.e., he was a polymath.
K. N. Toosi University of Technology in Iran is named after him.
Well, we should give a lot of credit to Arabs for developing the science subjects. It was about 1000 years ago when the Abassi kalifas thought about developing the knowledge base in Muslims. They made universities (Jamiyats) in which they invited top class scholars from all over the world including Greece, India, Egypt, China and many other places and gave them a very high status. They learnt various subjects from these high class scholars and then further developed those sciences through reaserch and experiments. They not only developed those subjects, but also invented some new subjects too. You're right that the Muslim students who studied in those universities were not only Arabs, they were very non Arabs belonging to different sects. The Abaasi Kahlifas didn't restrict the development of science subject only to Muslims. Many non Muslim students also played their part in the development and research of sciences in these universities.
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جوري
04-05-2007, 05:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sinbad
I know but still, there are some pan-arabist saying arabic invenstion even if theyre mostly persian. Then we have islamic inventions, but they are many non muslims.

There are no christian invenstions, galilleo galillei would probably laugh at religion just like al razi if he could. No religion can claim sciense, and sadly many muslims say islamic contributions.
well these scientists who speak "Islamic science" aren't even Muslim.. as I have quoted above an excerpt By Dr. George Salibi... let me share with you an e Book that has small excerpts from the Quran about things that weren't even known during Shakespearean time-- written by a former missionary... Dr. Gary Miller
http://thetruereligion.org/modules/w...p?articleid=90
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Sinbad
04-05-2007, 05:28 PM
All these things you allready knew. Alcohol is bad drugs are bad, you knew evereything! Shakespears time, please euopeans where supressed by the church.
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جوري
04-05-2007, 05:28 PM
I can think of so many things off the top of my head that infleunced western art even like the water clock that marked the hours by dropping bronze balls into a bowl, as mechanical knights — one for each hour — emerged from little doors which shut behind them. The presents were unprecedented in Western Europe and may have influenced Carolingian art. given to Charlemagne by the Khalif Harun Al RAshid (Aaron the Upright)-- it sent Charlemagne's knights afright... they thought it was sorcery... I mean this was unprecedented and all contributions under the Muslim empire which had funds for scholars...
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جوري
04-05-2007, 05:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sinbad
All these things you allready knew. Alcohol is bad drugs are bad, you knew evereything! Shakespears time, please euopeans where supressed by the church.
Yes but Muslims weren't suppressed by the Mosques... :D

Anyhow Sinbad.. I still hope we can learn from you and you from us... but I have to run

peace be with you
:w:
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The Ruler
04-05-2007, 05:49 PM
Greetings Sinbad,

format_quote Originally Posted by Sinbad
AL RAZI AND OTHER ARABIC ISLAMIC SCIENTIST KEEP EXPRESSING THEIR HATE TOWARDS ISLAM.
i do not understand...you said Al Razi was an athiest...then how do you again say 'al Razi and other arabic islamic scientist'?...

format_quote Originally Posted by Sinbad
BUT STILL THESE ISLAMIC SCIENTIST HATED ISLAM! How can you say muslim contributtion?
a person cannot be of one religion when he'she hates it.

and talking about muslim scientists, was Abul Hasan not distinguished as the inventor of telescope that he described as "tube, to the extrimities of which were attached diopters"? was the pendulum not invented by ibn yunus who lived to be a genius in science? is not mir fatehullah khan historically known as the inventor of gun powder?...how many more examples would you like? i would have no problem giving you more.

Peace.
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Keltoi
04-05-2007, 06:57 PM
Scientific discoveries have been made by every society, race, and religion. Arguing over what race, society, or religion made the most discoveries is a little juvenile. All cultures learn from other cultures and scientists and philosophers learn from other scientists and philosophers.
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جوري
04-05-2007, 07:07 PM
This it isn't about arguing over who made what... this is about giving people their due rights and respect.. The dark ages of Europe weren't called dark because they used extra dense black liner.... It is about time people knew the origins of many of the modern scientific theories -- I don't see anything wrong or juvenile in that!

peace!
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iqbal_soofi
04-05-2007, 07:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by +*Rooh*+
Greetings Sinbad,



i do not understand...you said Al Razi was an athiest...then how do you again say 'al Razi and other arabic islamic scientist'?...



a person cannot be of one religion when he'she hates it.

and talking about muslim scientists, was Abul Hasan not distinguished as the inventor of telescope that he described as "tube, to the extrimities of which were attached diopters"? was the pendulum not invented by ibn yunus who lived to be a genius in science? is not mir fatehullah khan historically known as the inventor of gun powder?...how many more examples would you like? i would have no problem giving you more.

Peace.


We need to study in detail about the life of Al-Razi to know what kind of belief he had. It's not necessary that every child born in a Muslim family to have the same belief as his/her parents all through his/her life. There're chances especially for the scientists to change their beliefs because they observe many new phenominon during the course of their research that are different from the religious or old beliefs.

A scientist is basically is a person who believes in nothing. Only seeing is believing in science. Therefore if somebody is a true scientist, then he's an athiest.
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جوري
04-05-2007, 07:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
A scientist is basically is a person who believes in nothing. Only seeing is believing in science. Therefore if somebody is a true scientist, then he's an athiest.
That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read... with the exception of a couple of English teachers and my philosophy professor from under grad-- every person that has taught me something be they with PhD or an MD in both my under grad and grad school with no exception have all had religious affiliations and were observant individuals...My physics, and calculus as well as my organic chemistry professors were from Iran and Algeria respectively and were very religious individuals...and during grad school I have only met with the same-- those of them who didn't follow any organized religion were at least still believers in G-D.. My colleagues with no exceptions whether Muslim or not still believe in G-D--- Pls don't make such sweeping generalization of what it means to be a scientist.. You'll find a few people on this thread with M.D's and PhD's who can't even fathom being an atheist.....

thank you
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iqbal_soofi
04-05-2007, 11:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read... with the exception of a couple of English teachers and my philosophy professor from under grad-- every person that has taught me something be they with PhD or an MD in both my under grad and grad school with no exception have all had religious affiliations and were observant individuals...My physics, and calculus as well as my organic chemistry professors were from Iran and Algeria respectively and were very religious individuals...and during grad school I have only met with the same-- those of them who didn't follow any organized religion were at least still believers in G-D.. My colleagues with no exceptions whether Muslim or not still believe in G-D--- Pls don't make such sweeping generalization of what it means to be a scientist.. You'll find a few people on this thread with M.D's and PhD's who can't even fathom being an atheist.....

thank you
I agree with you that most of the science teachers have relgious affiliations to some extnent. Some of them may be more religious too. But I was giving the definition of a true scientist. A true scientist is the one who never believes in something he can't verify with his five senses directly or indirectly thorugh some equipment.

For a scientists either everything in this world is a miracle or nothing is a miracle. Either ever person is a child of God or nobody is the child of God. Either every person is the messenger of Allah or nobody is the messenger of Allah. A scientist goes only by the material proof.

A true scientists is the one who makes no exception to this basic principle of science: SEEING IS BELIEVING
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جوري
04-06-2007, 12:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
I agree with you that most of the science teachers have relgious affiliations to some extnent. Some of them may be more religious too. But I was giving the definition of a true scientist. A true scientist is the one who never believes in something he can't verify with his five senses directly or indirectly thorugh some equipment.

For a scientists either everything in this world is a miracle or nothing is a miracle. Either ever person is a child of God or nobody is the child of God. Either every person is the messenger of Allah or nobody is the messenger of Allah. A scientist goes only by the material proof.

A true scientists is the one who makes no exception to this basic principle of science: SEEING IS BELIEVING
You can't see everything scientifically... I'll have to go on a limb and say most of psychiatry for instance is very theoretically based.... you don't have a definitive test to see certain organic disorders from Schizophrenia to depression or Parkinson or natural bereavement-- but they do develop a diagnostic quots whereby a pt. needs to satisfy certain criterions to be diagnosed with such a malady---and based on that a whole field develops and medications, pts. and clinical trials --- I'll agree with what you have said to a level, that, yes! I have come across people who view everything around them as a miracle -- and they are usually the most delightful bunch -- as they see possibility in things others just don't... Hope isn't something seen--- yet most Doctors will agree that it is not only helpful but necessary for a good prognostic outcome!
peace!
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
04-06-2007, 12:21 AM
Ibn Firnas of Islamic Spain invented, constructed and tested a flying machine in the 800's A.D. Roger Bacon learned of flying machines from Arabic references to Ibn Firnas' machine. The latter's invention antedates Bacon by 500 years and Da Vinci by some 700 years.

Glass mirrors were in use in Islamic Spain as early as the 11th century. The Venetians learned of the art of fine glass production from Syrian artisans during the 9th and 10th centuries.

A variety of mechanical clocks were produced by Spanish Muslim engineers, both large and small, and this knowledge was transmitted to Europe through Latin translations of Islamic books on mechanics. These clocks were weight-driven. Designs and illustrations of epi-cyclic and segmental gears were provided. One such clock included a mercury escapement. The latter type was directly copied by Europeans during the 15th century. In addition, during the 9th century, Ibn Firnas of Islamic Spain, according to Will Durant, invented a watch-like device which kept accurate time. The Muslims also constructed a variety of highly accurate astronomical clocks for use in their observatories.

The pendulum was discovered by Ibn Yunus al-Masri during the 10th century, who was the first to study and document its oscillatory motion. Its value for use in clocks was introduced by Muslim physicists during the 15th century.

Trigonometry remained largely a theoretical science among the Greeks. It was developed to a level of modern perfection by Muslim scholars, although the weight of the credit must be given to al-Battani. The words describing the basic functions of this science, sine, cosine and tangent, are all derived from Arabic terms. Thus, original contributions by the Greeks in trigonometry were minimal.


Would you like more?
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iqbal_soofi
04-06-2007, 12:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Jazzy
Ibn Firnas of Islamic Spain invented, constructed and tested a flying machine in the 800's A.D. Roger Bacon learned of flying machines from Arabic references to Ibn Firnas' machine. The latter's invention antedates Bacon by 500 years and Da Vinci by some 700 years.

Glass mirrors were in use in Islamic Spain as early as the 11th century. The Venetians learned of the art of fine glass production from Syrian artisans during the 9th and 10th centuries.

A variety of mechanical clocks were produced by Spanish Muslim engineers, both large and small, and this knowledge was transmitted to Europe through Latin translations of Islamic books on mechanics. These clocks were weight-driven. Designs and illustrations of epi-cyclic and segmental gears were provided. One such clock included a mercury escapement. The latter type was directly copied by Europeans during the 15th century. In addition, during the 9th century, Ibn Firnas of Islamic Spain, according to Will Durant, invented a watch-like device which kept accurate time. The Muslims also constructed a variety of highly accurate astronomical clocks for use in their observatories.

The pendulum was discovered by Ibn Yunus al-Masri during the 10th century, who was the first to study and document its oscillatory motion. Its value for use in clocks was introduced by Muslim physicists during the 15th century.

Trigonometry remained largely a theoretical science among the Greeks. It was developed to a level of modern perfection by Muslim scholars, although the weight of the credit must be given to al-Battani. The words describing the basic functions of this science, sine, cosine and tangent, are all derived from Arabic terms. Thus, original contributions by the Greeks in trigonometry were minimal.


Would you like more?
Very good description of some of the achievements of the Muslim scientists.

I admire their work done in the field of mathematics. Mathematics or numerology was a subject in which Indians were leading. Muslims learnt the method of writing the big amounts in digits from Indian mathematicians and then further developed it. Zero was invented by a Muslim mathematician which made the task of writing and memorizing big amount very easy. It futher helped in airthmatical addition, subtractions, divisions and multiplications. Germans used the combination of zero and the decimals to make the decimal system for measurments which made the engieering subject very easy. Then the combination the same zero and digit 1 made it possible to create the basic language for telecommunication which then helped in the invention of computer.

Algebra is another wonderful invention of Muslims. Everyone of you must be knowing about it already.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
04-06-2007, 01:21 AM
^^Yea, from the root word Al Jabr.
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Keltoi
04-06-2007, 01:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
This it isn't about arguing over who made what... this is about giving people their due rights and respect.. The dark ages of Europe weren't called dark because they used extra dense black liner.... It is about time people knew the origins of many of the modern scientific theories -- I don't see anything wrong or juvenile in that!

peace!
The vast majority of European thought stemmed from classic philosophers like Plato and Aristotle. It would be false to suggest that European knowledge after the Dark Ages was due to Islam. I'm not denying there were contributions of one form or another from that part of world, but the European Enlightenment was much more than numbers. I absolutely agree that there were contributions to modern thought and science that had its roots in Persia and the surrounding area, but to suggest Europe depended upon this for their Enlightenment and social progress is vastly overstated.
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iqbal_soofi
04-06-2007, 01:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
The vast majority of European thought stemmed from classic philosophers like Plato and Aristotle. It would be false to suggest that European knowledge after the Dark Ages was due to Islam. I'm not denying there were contributions of one form or another from that part of world, but the European Enlightenment was much more than numbers. I absolutely agree that there were contributions to modern thought and science that had its roots in Persia and the surrounding area, but to suggest Europe depended upon this for their Enlightenment and social progress is vastly overstated.
That's very true.

Unfortunately, we've narrowed down everything to Islam. We beleive that everything orginated from Islam. There were no civilizations before Islam. And if somehow we admit that there're civilizations without Islam, then we assume that those are kufer or evils which would go to hell. We please ourselves by saying that we're away from any civilization. Then we beg, buy or borrow everything to fulfill our needs from the same civilized world which we blame as kuffer.
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جوري
04-06-2007, 02:00 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
That's very true.

Unfortunately, we've narrowed down everything to Islam. We beleive that everything orginated from Islam. There were no civilizations before Islam. And if somehow we admit that there're civilizations without Islam, then we assume that those are kufer or evils which would go to hell. We please ourselves by saying that we're away from any civilization. Then we beg, buy or borrow everything to fulfill our needs from the same civilized world which we blame as kuffer.
Ha? I believe the greatest civilizations in the world have come from the east... and I believe that Islamic civilization was the most impressive of them... that is not to deny many break through's that were made by Egyptians and Phoenicians etc etc... it is enough to look and see where 4 of the ancient 7 wonders of the world have come from -- two in Egypt, one in what is known as modern day Iraq and one in Turkey-- Those people have always been progressive and Islam has enhanced that for them--So yes I dare say if the west has seen the mountains it is because they stood on the shoulders of Giants... typical though to bite the hand that fed you ---To call it overstated to me is to admit to selective myopia...


peace!
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iqbal_soofi
04-06-2007, 02:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
Ha? I believe the greatest civilizations in the world have come from the east... and I believe that Islamic civilization was the most impressive of them... that is not to deny many break through's that were made by Egyptians and Phoenicians etc etc... it is enough to look and see where 4 of the ancient 7 wonders of the world have come from -- two in Egypt, one in what is known as modern day Iraq and one in Turkey-- Those people have always been progressive and Islam has enhanced that for them--So yes I dare say if the west has seen the mountains it is because they stood on the shoulders of Giant... To call it overstated to me is to admit to selective myopia...


peace!
The Indus Valley civilization and the Egytian civilization has nothing to do with Islam. They came many thousand years before Islam. We couldn't make any civilization matching any one of these two with Islam.
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جوري
04-06-2007, 02:21 AM
The Egyptians are the same folks in the pagan days as they were Islamic days only more enhanced by the qualities of righteous people ... and undoubtedly what ever talents they have had carried through---
Still don't see how European thought during the dark ages stemmed from Plato or Aristotle?... was their enlightenment the focus of Roger the II crushing the globe handed him by Al Idrisi attesting the earth was flat-- or of having prohibitions on wearing pointy shoes for their immorality by the church and keeping your circumcised organs buried with you so that G-D could put you back together? Please let's get a grip here.... or are we again in the process of reinterpreting history?
peace!
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Keltoi
04-06-2007, 03:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
The Egyptians are the same folks in the pagan days as they were Islamic days only more enhanced by the qualities of righteous people ... and undoubtedly what ever talents they have had carried through---
Still don't see how European thought during the dark ages stemmed from Plato or Aristotle?... was their enlightenment the focus of Roger the II crushing the globe handed him by Al Idrisi attesting the earth was flat-- or of having prohibitions on wearing pointy shoes for their immorality by the church and keeping your circumcised organs buried with you so that G-D could put you back together? Please let's get a grip here.... or are we again in the process of reinterpreting history?
peace!
You seem to conveniently forget the Greek and Roman Empires. When the Roman Empire fell apart, Europe was once again a collection of tribes and feudal kingdoms struggling to survive. This was the Dark Ages. It was a time of war and chaos. However, when scholars and philosophers once again emerged, it was Plato and Aristotle to whom they looked for knowledge and enlightenment. You simply cannot separate European culture from the influence of the Greeks and Romans. I'm not sure what the whole "circumcised" organs comment was about, so I won't bother to respond to that exciting addition to the conversation.
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Trumble
04-06-2007, 04:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
Please let's get a grip here.... or are we again in the process of reinterpreting history?
peace!

Keltoi is quite correct, although I'd also add Democritus to the list. I'm afraid it's you doing the "reinterpreting"!
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
04-06-2007, 04:33 AM
Everyone seems to be doing it. Is that better kids? Now lets make up and play! tee heee :rollseyes
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جوري
04-06-2007, 02:11 PM
I am not conveniently forgetting-- I am just simply as unimpressed!... in your own words European achievements are overstated! And any good historian will tell you.. Europe has gotten there out of climbing on other nations's achievements and stealing their wealth through Imperialism....

I haven't read any books by you, but I have by others who will attest to the converse of what you are dishing out here..... so the expected responses with a quip -- frankly means squat to me...

peace!
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iqbal_soofi
04-06-2007, 02:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
I am not conveniently forgetting-- I am just simply as unimpressed!... in your own words European achievements are overstated! And any good historian will tell you.. Europe has gotten there out of climbing on other nations's achievements and stealing their wealth through Imperialism....

I haven't read any books by you, but I have by others who will attest to the converse of what you are dishing out here..... so the expected responses with a quip -- frankly means squat to me...

peace!
It's not only the European Imperialists, but all Imperialists did many good things for themselves. We've to see their beheviour with others. What they did with other people. This we can check from the balance of trade or flow of wealth from one side to the other. Europe and the western world is still doing a lot of good to the third world. But they get more than double the wealth from the third world to what they give them in total. It's the western powers that use their underground intellegence agaencies and brutal armies who do a lot of massacre in the third world in the name of setting up democracy. The menace of fundamentalism is also promoted by their agengies to keep the third world countries busy in destruction so that they always look towards the west for help to reconstruct. :omg:
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Keltoi
04-06-2007, 05:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
I am not conveniently forgetting-- I am just simply as unimpressed!... in your own words European achievements are overstated! And any good historian will tell you.. Europe has gotten there out of climbing on other nations's achievements and stealing their wealth through Imperialism....

I haven't read any books by you, but I have by others who will attest to the converse of what you are dishing out here..... so the expected responses with a quip -- frankly means squat to me...

peace!
I did not say European achievements were "overstated", I said that suggesting Europe owes Islam for its philosophical and scientific progress was overstated.

The issue of imperialism and the development of philosophy and science, while not completely unrelated, don't have much to do with this convesation. I'm not even sure what your point is exactly, unless it is to suggest Europeans owe their development and power to Islam, which is obviously false.
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جوري
04-06-2007, 06:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
I did not say European achievements were "overstated", I said that suggesting Europe owes Islam for its philosophical and scientific progress was overstated.

The issue of imperialism and the development of philosophy and science, while not completely unrelated, don't have much to do with this convesation. I'm not even sure what your point is exactly, unless it is to suggest Europeans owe their development and power to Islam, which is obviously false.
I know exactly what you said... and I turned it around! how do you like it?... Now, I suggest you not partake in a topic where you are not sure what the subject matter entails-- -- and yes Europe owes a great deal of debt to Islamic civilization from the lights on the streets of Spain to architecture to Math to science and every facet there is in between... As stated above even Copernicus and other beloved geniuses, copied their work from Muslim scholars and did it incorrectly.. you may revisit one of the above articles written by a Non- Muslim Doctor BTW working at Columbia university ... if you don't like what is written it still doesn't make it false, just makes you seem really ill informed and embittered!

You remind me of individuals suffering from Hemineglect syndrome-- you only see half of the picture, and I have no doubt in my mind-- that it is what you actually believe--- but seeing half a correct picture no matter how much conviction you put into it, is still an incorrect view to the rest of the learned world!





my vacation is over as of Monday and I am afraid I don't have as much time on my hand to dedicate to this beyond what is useful or even necessary...
Enjoy


peace!
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Keltoi
04-07-2007, 12:19 AM
I suppose we will just agree to disagree.
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