Breaking News: We gathered Intelligence on Iran

[England]

'We Gathered Intelligence'

The captain in charge of the 15 marines detained in Iran has said they were gathering intelligence on the Iranians.

Sky News went on patrol with Captain Chris Air and his team in Iraqi waters close to the area where they were arrested - just five days before the crisis began.

We withheld the interview until now so it would not jeopardise their safety.

And today, former Iranian diplomat Dr Mehrdad Khonsari said if the Iranians had known about it, they would have used it to "justify taking the marines captive and put them on trial".

Captain Air and his team were on an 'Interaction Patrol' where their patrol boats came alongside fishing dhows.

The operation was mainly to investigate arms smuggling and terrorism but Captain Air said it was also to gain intelligence on Iranian activity.

He told Sky Correspondent Jonathan Samuels: "Basically we speak to the crew, find out if they have any problems, let them know we're here to protect them, protect their fishing and stop any terrorism and piracy in the area," he said.

"Secondly, it's to gather int (intelligence). If they do have any information, because they're here for days at a time, they can share it with us.

"Whether it's about piracy or any sort of Iranian activity in the area. Obviously we're right by the buffer zone with Iran."

The UK Defence Secretary Des Browne told Sky News it was important to gather intelligence to "keep our people safe".

He said: "Modern military operations all have an element of gathering intelligence.

"We need to understand as much as we can about the environment we operate in and intelligence gathering is an every day part of that."

He added: "The UN mandate would clearly empower the military taskforce to gather information about the environment in which they were working."

Captain Air said that fishing dhows had been robbed by Iranian soldiers on a number of occasions.

"It's good to gather int on the Iranians," he said.

Fifteen sailors and marines were taken captive nearly two weeks ago after the Iranian government claimed they had strayed into their waters.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/...259413,00.html

[Trumble]

Hmmm... I can hardly see Military Intelligence getting over-excited about "Iranian soldiers steal fish". :D

[afriend]

:sl:

LOL^ funny :p

Well...I knew the Iranians weren't just being paranoid fools. :)

:w:

[Philosopher]

Hmmm... I can hardly see Military Intelligence getting over-excited about "Iranian soldiers steal fish". :D

LOL!

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[AvarAllahNoor]

HAHA - They have sod all now as Iran has all this info. - I told you they were in Itanian waters but you choose to believe a liar who runs the country. Shame on you....

[wilberhum]

HAHA - They have sod all now as Iran has all this info. - I told you they were in Itanian waters but you choose to believe a liar who runs the country. Shame on you....

Do you have reading problems?

Obviously we're right by the buffer zone with Iran."

:skeleton:

[England]

HAHA - They have sod all now as Iran has all this info. - I told you they were in Itanian waters but you choose to believe a liar who runs the country. Shame on you....

You're wrong... they were in Iraqi waters... haha... shame on YOU!

Oh and by the way Iran doesn't have info. They didn't even know the troops were spying on them :) The intelligence has more than likely been passed to the MOD.

[Cognescenti]

Well...in fairness, it does go both ways. The Iranians now know that Able Rate Tunney smokes and has a child back home.


Over all, I would say the Brits won this one. Their Sailors and Marines got all those fine, custom-tailored Iranian suits with carboard in the lapels.


Plus...they got to eat all the yummy Persian food (which they enjoyed with unusual gusto on the video :) )

PS..gathering intel on a potential enemy is not an act of war. In fact, it would fall under the task assigned them by the Iraqi government.

[Keltoi]

Well...in fairness, it does go both ways. The Iranians now know that Able Rate Tunney smokes and has a child back home.


Over all, I would say the Brits won this one. Their Sailors and Marines got all those fine, custom-tailored Iranian suits with carboard in the lapels.


Plus...they got to eat all the yummy Persian food (which they enjoyed with unusual gusto on the video :) )

Yeah, they were eating like they were at a 5 star eating establishment. :)

I don't think anybody gained much from this episode, which makes it all the more perplexing.

[Malaikah]

Over all, I would say the Brits won this one.

Won what? If anything they have showed the word that they are bunch of pathetic lying scum.

[Keltoi]

Won what? If anything they have showed the word that they are bunch of pathetic lying scum.

:D Care to expand on that?

[Malaikah]

No. Would you?

[Cognescenti]

Won what? If anything they have showed the word that they are bunch of pathetic lying scum.

Two big cleansing breaths....oooonnnne.....twooooo....Excellent! Now, I want you to imagine you are in a gently swaying hammock suspended under two palms trees on a white sand beach...gentle waves lap the shore and a cooling breeze...............

[Malaikah]

If not the world, then at least me. Now why don't you go back to your own palm trees.:rollseyes

[snakelegs]

iran says one thing, u.k. says another - how are any of us ever going to know the truth?
and now, thank god, it doesn't really matter because it has been settled without blood shed.
i'm just thankful it was a british ship and not an american one, cuz i think the brits are a little more sensible.

[Keltoi]

iran says one thing, u.k. says another - how are any of us ever going to know the truth?
and now, thank god, it doesn't really matter because it has been settled without blood shed.
i'm just thankful it was a british ship and not an american one, cuz i think the brits are a little more sensible.

You are probably correct in that the U.S. would not have allowed their sailors to be taken captive in the first place. I'm not sure which approach is more "sensible", but it is good that no blood needed to be shed to secure their release.

[Cognescenti]

iran says one thing, u.k. says another - how are any of us ever going to know the truth?
and now, thank god, it doesn't really matter because it has been settled without blood shed.
i'm just thankful it was a british ship and not an american one, cuz i think the brits are a little more sensible.

I am inclined to believe that the timing was non-accidental and was linked to the UN sanctions vote. In that case either you have to assume the Brits were habitually violating the boundary (and Iran just picked a convenient time) OR Iran nabbed them on the Iraqi side.

It is also not an accident it was a group of British Sailors and not Americans. It is clear to me from the accidental shootdown of the Iranian airliner several years ago (1988) by the USS Vincennes (in the middle of a battle with the Iranian Navy) that USN vessels don't have to call Washington for permission to shoot when engaged by Iran. I suspect the Iranians know this.

[snakelegs]

you may be right, cog. but i don't really feel a need to believe either the brits or the iranians. :)
as for sanctions, i think they are horrible and inhumane - they never punish the rulers and their cronies - it's the people who suffer.

[deen_2007]

hmm...wonder whats going to happen now? :? overall the british government have dug their own grave now!:skeleton: ... they think their clever & wOn this ?!?;D WEL...lets see

[AvarAllahNoor]

You are probably correct in that the U.S. would not have allowed their sailors to be taken captive in the first place. .

No, they would just take 444 days to get anyone out.... US - eless or what....:rollseyes

That is what they stand for...

[AvarAllahNoor]

You're wrong... they were in Iraqi waters... haha... shame on YOU!

.

Prove it!

[Trumble]

overall the british government have dug their own grave now!

In what way? The whole thing is a 'nothing' story. Of course they were gathering "intelligence" if by that you mean asking any local fisherman they might happen to bump into about what the Iranians might be up to. Not exactly James Bond, is it? The Iranians will have been doing exactly the same thing.

Asking fishermen a few questions does not constitute 'spying'!

[Far7an]

A day in which both countries will claim to have been victorious.

[Pygoscelis]

Seems awfully peculiar though eh?

The US government telling the press about US spy operations. Isn't that sposed to be secret?

[ACC]

No, they would just take 444 days to get anyone out.... US - eless or what....:rollseyes

That is what they stand for...

If I recall, that was Jimmy Carter than didnt have the gall to get his people back. USA is how I would spell it, but hey, you hate what you hate. When Reagan came in, the iranians seemed to sing a different tune.

Personally, I would hope that we would not allow our soldiers to go without a fight.

[Keltoi]

No, they would just take 444 days to get anyone out.... US - eless or what....:rollseyes

That is what they stand for...

Those hostages, during the Carter era, weren't soldiers on patrol. There is a huge difference between diplomats and soldiers when it comes to kidnappings.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Those hostages, during the Carter era, weren't soldiers on patrol. There is a huge difference between diplomats and soldiers when it comes to kidnappings.

A life is a life, you wouldn't know that though...

[Keltoi]

A life is a life, you wouldn't know that though...

Not sure what that was supposed to mean. Of course a life is a life in the philosophical sense, but we are talking about foreign policy. The kidnapping of soldiers by other soldiers is usually considered an act of war. I know the U.S. military would never have allowed their sailors to be kidnapped unless they had no other choice.

No offense to the Brits, but what happened to name, rank, and serial number?

[AvarAllahNoor]

Not sure what that was supposed to mean. Of course a life is a life in the philosophical sense, but we are talking about foreign policy. The kidnapping of soldiers by other soldiers is usually considered an act of war. I know the U.S. military would never have allowed their sailors to be kidnapped unless they had no other choice.

No offense to the Brits, but what happened to name, rank, and serial number?

Diplomacy was used you yanks can't accept that. You rebublicans are fools. I hope you lot lose sons and daughters in the same way they die in Iraq. Our troops and civilians. Only then I would feel better.:raging:

[Keltoi]

Diplomacy was used you yanks can't accept that. You rebublicans are fools. I hope you lot lose sons and daughters in the same way they die in Iraq. Our troops and civilians. Only then I would feel better.:raging:

Actually I'm glad diplomacy was used. My point was about allowing the hostages to be taken in the first place. As for "you republicans", if it is a Republican trait to frown upon the kidnapping of U.S. or British soldiers than I'm glad to call myself one. As for my sons and daughters I don't have any, but I do have family currently in Iraq. I know people who have died there. I don't need a lecture from you about war either.

[Kidman]

I would like to see what the 15 soldiers say, now that they are in Britian, regarding their apology. They just might stand by it and say that they were actually in Iranian waters.

[Philosopher]

I would like to see what the 15 soldiers say, now that they are in Britian, regarding their apology. They just might stand by it and say that they were actually in Iranian waters.

I think they'll stand by their apology. So far they havent said anything about being forced to apologise on international television.

[Cognescenti]

Diplomacy was used you yanks can't accept that. You rebublicans are fools. I hope you lot lose sons and daughters in the same way they die in Iraq. Our troops and civilians. Only then I would feel better.:raging:

OK...I have posts deleted for being "off-topic", yet this kind of grabage is tolerated????

[Cognescenti]

A day in which both countries will claim to have been victorious.

That was the necessary ingredient for a diplomatic solution.

Quite likely, the "rules of engagement" will change for the Royal Navy after this. "It won't happen again" will mean "don't try it again or we will start shooting".

[Trumble]

I think they'll stand by their apology. So far they havent said anything about being forced to apologise on international television.

Er, no..

Royal Navy personnel seized by Iran were blindfolded, bound and held in isolation during their 13 days in captivity, the crew have said.
They were also subject to random interrogation and rough handling, and faced constant psychological pressure.

In a joint statement the crew also stressed that they were inside Iraqi waters at the time of the capture.

Royal Marine Captain Chris Air said it became apparent that opposing their captors was "not an option."

"If we had, some of us would not be here today, of that I am completely sure," he said.

"We realised that had we resisted there would have been a major fight, one we could not have won and with consequences major strategic impacts.

"We made a conscious decision not to engage the Iranians and do as they asked," he said.

The crew said they spent nights in stone cells, sleeping on piles of blankets and were kept in isolation until their last few nights.

They were also lined up against a wall while weapons were cocked, making them "fear the worst".

BBC


As expected, of course. As will be the chorus of "well, they were told to say that" from the Iranian fan-club. Who is the "pathetic lying scum" now? Whoever you choose to believe it is, same as always.

[ummAbdillah]

salaam
why are they saying that they were blindfolded and tortured now when
36hrs ago they were saying how lovley the were treated by the Iranians?
wa salaam

[FatimaAsSideqah]

salaam
why are they saying that they were blindfolded and tortured now when
36hrs ago they were saying how lovley the were treated by the Iranians?
wa salaam

:sl:
^ Good question! :D

:w:

[AhlaamBella]

salaam
why are they saying that they were blindfolded and tortured now when
36hrs ago they were saying how lovley the were treated by the Iranians?
wa salaam

Because they find it so hard to accept that someone different from them can be kind lol

[ACC]

Because they find it so hard to accept that someone different from them can be kind lol

Umm, werent they saying they were being treated well while in iranian hands?

[Trumble]

salaam
why are they saying that they were blindfolded and tortured now when
36hrs ago they were saying how lovley the were treated by the Iranians?
wa salaam

Because 36 hours ago they were in Iran.

I don't see any accusations of "torture", 'just' psychological pressure although of course in extreme cases the latter can become the former. As I've said before that was obvious, as without same they would not have "confessed" or "apologised" even if they HAD been in Iranian waters.

[ummAbdillah]

salaam
One of them said
"We were blindfolded, our hands were bound, we were forced up against a wall," that's what i meant be torture
wa salaam

[noodles]

Royal Navy personnel seized by Iran were blindfolded, bound and held in isolation during their 13 days in captivity, the crew have said.
They were also subject to random interrogation and rough handling, and faced constant psychological pressure.

In a joint statement the crew also stressed that they were inside Iraqi waters at the time of the capture.

Royal Marine Captain Chris Air said it became apparent that opposing their captors was "not an option."

"If we had, some of us would not be here today, of that I am completely sure," he said.

"We realised that had we resisted there would have been a major fight, one we could not have won and with consequences major strategic impacts.

"We made a conscious decision not to engage the Iranians and do as they asked," he said.

The crew said they spent nights in stone cells, sleeping on piles of blankets and were kept in isolation until their last few nights.

They were also lined up against a wall while weapons were cocked, making them "fear the worst".

This isn't a matter about who is right or wrong, it is about belief. I can easily say that they were given the option of being tortured or confess that they were in Iranian waters. In that case, an individual who fears the idea of torture, will easily give in to the temptation of being set free as long as they comply with the opposition. Similarly, the argument can also be taken from the other side. Perhaps, upon returning home, the Navy personnel were once again threatened, not by the Iranians, but by the British government to publicize certain sentences that would antagonize the Iranian government. It could also be that they were being bribed.

The idea is very possible if you ponder upon the situation.

If you are looking to see which country is right, you might as well try to figure out who ate the egg. Boy A has traces of egg shells where he is sitting and Boy B has evidence of the yolk on his shirt. Either way, you can't very well say Boy A is right or Boy B is right.

People have a way of doubting confessions regardless of the situation they are in.

In the end, its up to what you believe in. Either you can be a patriot and believe that your country is right in the matter, or you can examine the evidence and conclude on the matter present yourself.

And if you are wondering what I believe, then keep wondering.
Certain people on this forum hold grudges and I don't want anyone holding anything against me.

:w:

[wilberhum]

salaam
One of them said
"We were blindfolded, our hands were bound, we were forced up against a wall," that's what i meant be torture
wa salaam

You forgot the sound of rifles being loaded. Not a small item.

[ACC]

This isn't a matter about who is right or wrong, it is about belief. I can easily say that they were given the option of being tortured or confess that they were in Iranian waters. In that case, an individual who fears the idea of torture, will easily give in to the temptation of being set free as long as they comply with the opposition. Similarly, the argument can also be taken from the other side. Perhaps, upon returning home, the Navy personnel were once again threatened, not by the Iranians, but by the British government to publicize certain sentences that would antagonize the Iranian government. It could also be that they were being bribed.

The idea is very possible if you ponder upon the situation.

If you are looking to see which country is right, you might as well try to figure out who ate the egg. Boy A has traces of egg shells where he is sitting and Boy B has evidence of the yolk on his shirt. Either way, you can't very well say Boy A is right or Boy B is right.

People have a way of doubting confessions regardless of the situation they are in.

In the end, its up to what you believe in. Either you can be a patriot and believe that your country is right in the matter, or you can examine the evidence and conclude on the matter present yourself.

And if you are wondering what I believe, then keep wondering.
Certain people on this forum hold grudges and I don't want anyone holding anything against me.

:w:

I will have to side with the astronomically much higher probability of iran misbehaving here. Especially when you consider that these people are now in a country where they easily say what they want to whatever media source

[Trumble]

Either you can be a patriot and believe that your country is right in the matter, or you can examine the evidence and conclude on the matter present yourself.

Of course, such an examination may well result in the conclusion that your country is, in fact, right in the matter. Such is certainly my own opinion here.

[AhlaamBella]

Umm, werent they saying they were being treated well while in iranian hands?

I didn't mean them. I meant the government and the media. :)

[noodles]

I will have to side with the astronomically much higher probability of iran misbehaving here. Especially when you consider that these people are now in a country where they easily say what they want to whatever media source

No matter how high the probability, the possibility of English government controlling its media is still there. It could be that they are way smarter than the Iranian government in terms of secrecy and their plots.

Like I said, evidences(whats the plural of evidence?) are questionable, so are confessions.

Once again, I'm not siding with anyone here so please don't say "your government blah di blah di bah..." because clearly it is not mine.


P.S I really think you should watch the movie V for Vendetta. Although it has nothing to do with this, it has a nice plot twist that people here would like.

[wilberhum]

the possibility of English government controlling its media is still there.

the Iranin government controlling its media is a fact.

[AhlaamBella]

Every government tries to control it's media. If the media publishes something the government doesn't want, the rest of the media gets involved. Either way the media and government work hand in hand.

[wilberhum]

Every government tries to control it's media. If the media publishes something the government doesn't want, the rest of the media gets involved. Either way the media and government work hand in hand.

Da, why do I keep seeing anti Bush stuff in the US media?

[Keltoi]

Da, why do I keep seeing anti Bush stuff in the US media?

The U.S. media has no master except their corporate interests.

[AhlaamBella]

I'm talking mainly about UK media. Freedom of speech is still allowed. Oh yeah, apart from muslims. As soon as they open their mouth they are arrested for terrorism.

[Keltoi]

I'm talking mainly about UK media. Freedom of speech is still allowed. Oh yeah, appart from muslims. As soon as they open their mouth they are arrested for terrorism.

You mean when they open their mouth and call for violence and terrorism?

[wilberhum]

The U.S. media has no master except their corporate interests.

Thanks for that. It is soooooooooooooooooooooooo obvious. :thumbs_up
Why do some find that not true? :skeleton:
I guess you just have to close your eyes. :?

[AhlaamBella]

You mean when they open their mouth and call for violence and terrorism?

No. When they just open there mouth and say the words: 'america' or 'war' etc. Mind you, they don't have to say anything. The criteria is a beard, even then it doesn't matter

[Cognescenti]

No matter how high the probability, the possibility of English government controlling its media is still there. It could be that they are way smarter than the Iranian government in terms of secrecy and their plots.

Like I said, evidences(whats the plural of evidence?) are questionable, so are confessions.

Once again, I'm not siding with anyone here so please don't say "your government blah di blah di bah..." because clearly it is not mine.


P.S I really think you should watch the movie V for Vendetta. Although it has nothing to do with this, it has a nice plot twist that people here would like.

I understand your point, but this is not a court of law, so we are permitted to bring in our own life experiences in making judgements. It is possible that the Niagra River may start flowing up the falls tomorrow, but based on considerable empirical evidence, I judge this to be very unlikely.

There are a number of lines of evidence that undermine the Iranian claim.

1) One of the video "confessions" is clearly edited. The speaker is seen to be looking off camera for evident instruction on repeated occaisions.

2) The preposterous "Dear Mum" letters from Able Rate Tunney

3) The Iranians changed their story after the initial coordiantes they provided were proven to be in Iraqi waters (this one hurts bad)

4) The Royal Navy Lt said today his "confession" was edited

5) No representive of the Red Cross or the UK was permitted to visit them

6) Iranian history...The American hostage crisis..the capture of British sailors in 04. Iranian support for Hezbollah and their loing track record of hostage-taking. The Iranians were caught in a bald-faced lie to the IAEC re enrichement.

7) A conspiracy among fifteen servicepeople to concoct a story about their treatment now that they are out in the free world is preposterous. Imagine the incentive to spill the beans.

8) Rivers tend to keep flowing in the direction have been flowing in.

[wilberhum]

No. When they just open there mouth and say the words: 'america' or 'war' etc. Mind you, they don't have to say anything. The criteria is a beard, even then it doesn't matter

Da, it must be against the law to be a Muslim. :?
If it is so bad, why do Muslims keep comming? :?

[AhlaamBella]

keep coming where? to the country or to the religion?

[wilberhum]

keep coming where? to the country or to the religion?

Either/both?

[Trumble]

No matter how high the probability, the possibility of English government controlling its media is still there.

Of course, although but that possibility is far more remote than in Iran simply because of the nature of the respective governments and judicial systems.

Realistically, as in Canada I suspect, the media would need to co-operate in the process. Some media organs might, but others would not short of the direst national emergency - which this wasn't.

[AhlaamBella]

Either/both?

They come to the religion because when Islam is looked into and understood it's a beautiful offer of peace that no one can resist.

They come to the country because every other muslim country is being blown to bits

[wilberhum]

They come to the country because every other muslim country is being blown to bits

So why do Muslims keep killing Muslims? :?
Well this obviously has nothing to do with "gathered Intelligence". :D

[AhlaamBella]

lol I guess. The world is in such a mess. Corruption everywhere even among muslims. BUT Islam and ALL muslims shouldn't be judged by the acts of a few retards

[wilberhum]

lol I guess. The world is in such a mess. Corruption everywhere even among muslims. BUT Islam and ALL muslims shouldn't be judged by the acts of a few retards

Well a point of aggreement. :statisfie
I'm glad that happened. But remember our exchange started when you went totally off the mark by saying/implying Muslims are arrested for having a beard. :D
Have a good day.

[ummAbdillah]

lol I guess. The world is in such a mess. Corruption everywhere even among muslims. BUT Islam and ALL muslims shouldn't be judged by the acts of a few retards

salaam
i agree with you sis :)
may allah improve the stuation on the ummah - ameen
wa salaam

[nevesirth]

whtever they call it, its the same as espionage!!!!!!!!!

[Trumble]

whtever they call it, its the same as espionage!!!!!!!!!

No it isn't.

Espionage is defined as "the practice of obtaining secrets (spying) from rivals or enemies for military, political, or economic advantage". It is a covert activity, generally involving illegal actions. There is nothing either covert or illegal in asking passing fisherman a few questions. As I said before, the Iranians will be doing exactly the same thing. When they aren't too busy stealing their fish, that is. Or is that an Iranian state secret? :D

[nevesirth]

No it isn't.

Espionage is defined as "the practice of obtaining secrets (spying) from rivals or enemies for military, political, or economic advantage". It is a covert activity, generally involving illegal actions. There is nothing either covert or illegal in asking passing fisherman a few questions. As I said before, the Iranians will be doing exactly the same thing. When they aren't too busy stealing their fish, that is. Or is that an Iranian state secret? :D

asking fishermen a few questions is all about obtaining secrets, so its the same as spying. its also done for military and political advantage. gathering of intelligence is the same as spying. of wht use is the intelligence gathered if not for personal benefits of britain?

[wilberhum]

Spying on a country when you are not in there country.
Interesting.
So if I ask some fishermen a question, Iran has the right to breach international waters, enter the area of another country and take me hostage.
Interesting.

[Trumble]

asking fishermen a few questions is all about obtaining secrets, so its the same as spying.

So, did the Iranians tell the fishermen all their secrets before or after they stole their fish? :D

[nevesirth]

Spying on a country when you are not in there country.
Interesting.
So if I ask some fishermen a question, Iran has the right to breach international waters, enter the area of another country and take me hostage.
Interesting.

britain will do the same thing or worse in such a situation. theyll refer to the pple in question as terrorist and a threat to their national security.

[wilberhum]

britain will do the same thing or worse in such a situation. theyll refer to the pple in question as terrorist and a threat to their national security.

Oh my that sounds like preemptive strike. :D

[Trumble]

britain will do the same thing or worse in such a situation. theyll refer to the pple in question as terrorist and a threat to their national security.

Yeah... the French get very unhappy when we do that... :D

[nevesirth]

Oh my that sounds like preemptive strike. :D

yeah we knw them well enough to prejudge their actions to some extent.

[wilberhum]

yeah we knw them well enough to prejudge their actions to some extent.

You should come work for Bush. Maybe next time he will get it right. :skeleton:

[nevesirth]

well, im happy those naval personel were returned safely, but the westy should get it in their thick skull tht they are not the rulers of the world and they do not make rules for all humanity! iran has given them the message tht others can also react when faced with unjust oppresion.

[nevesirth]

we fold our hands and tolerate the hypocricy of the west. the sailors came back safely and were whining like babies over the treatment they recieved. seeking attention and sympathy. wht can we say about those held captive by the western states? ok they are terrorists and therefore dont deserve fair treatment? double standard!

[ummAbdillah]

salaam

wht can we say about those held captive by the western states?

It is sad to say but i think that they will never recive such global attention
wa salaam

[wilberhum]

we fold our hands and tolerate the hypocricy of the west. the sailors came back safely and were whining like babies over the treatment they recieved. seeking attention and sympathy. wht can we say about those held captive by the western states? ok they are terrorists and therefore dont deserve fair treatment? double standard!

good G-- now the brits are responsible for what the US does?
Some day I hope the world reaches your perfection.
If you think collective hate, collective punishment, and collective giult is perfection.

[Cognescenti]

Symbol of the top-secret, Royal Marine, SFS (Special Fish Service)

Their motto.... "Protecting the realm through fish (and aquatic mammal)-based espionage"

[nevesirth]

good G-- now the brits are responsible for what the US does?
Some day I hope the world reaches your perfection.
If you think collective hate, collective punishment, and collective giult is perfection.

same way the saudis, the egyptians and all arabs are responsible for wht a any muslim does in the eyes of the brits and americans. im not hating on anyone collectively or not. all im saying is tht our brothers and sisters who are abused by the west are not getting any attention or sympathy though their sufferings are worse!

[wilberhum]

Cognescenti,
That's great. It is good to have some fun in the day. :thumbs_up

[Cognescenti]

we fold our hands and tolerate the hypocricy of the west. the sailors came back safely and were whining like babies over the treatment they recieved. seeking attention and sympathy. wht can we say about those held captive by the western states? ok they are terrorists and therefore dont deserve fair treatment? double standard!

Are the two situations really equivalent in your mind? Honestly, can you not see the difference?

[wilberhum]

same way the saudis, the egyptians and all arabs are responsible for wht a any muslim does in the eyes of the brits and americans. im not hating on anyone collectively or not. all im saying is tht our brothers and sisters who are abused by the west are not getting any attention or sympathy though their sufferings are worse!

It becomes quite apparent why you don't list where you live.
Scrue humanity! Right?

[nevesirth]

Cognescenti,
That's great. It is good to have some fun in the day. :thumbs_up

ahmedinijad is now seen as a radical and unreasonable person for holding 15 pple captive without harming anyone. sadam was executed for crimes against humanity. shayk usama ibn laden is the" most wanted terrorist" in the world for mastermainding the sept 11 attack. wht can we say of bush and blair? they are responsible for the unjust slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent souls in iraq, but they are refered 2 as the so called leaders of the free world. have they not commited a greay crime against humanity? "genocide"

[wilberhum]

ahmedinijad is now seen as a radical and unreasonable person for holding 15 pple captive without harming anyone. sadam was executed for crimes against humanity. shayk usama ibn laden is the" most wanted terrorist" in the world for mastermainding the sept 11 attack. wht can we say of bush and blair? they are responsible for the unjust slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent souls in iraq, but they are refered 2 as the so called leaders of the free world. have they not commited a greay crime against humanity? "genocide"

I totally agree. You see I don't believe "My country, right or wrong".
That is why you never see me supporting what the US has done in Iraq.
I don't use wrong to justify wrong, or evil to justify evil. :thumbs_up
Is that beyound you? Are you now confused because this round peg dosen't fit in your square hole?

[nevesirth]

lets learn 2 call a "spade a spade"

[nevesirth]

all humans are equal. no one is to be treated with favour because of his nationality!

[Cognescenti]

ahmedinijad is now seen as a radical and unreasonable person for holding 15 pple captive without harming anyone. sadam was executed for crimes against humanity. shayk usama ibn laden is the" most wanted terrorist" in the world for mastermainding the sept 11 attack. wht can we say of bush and blair? they are responsible for the unjust slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent souls in iraq, but they are refered 2 as the so called leaders of the free world. have they not commited a greay crime against humanity? "genocide"

Ummmmm....No


1) The great majority of deaths in Iraq are intersectarian or from "foreign fighters" coming in to immolate themselves by blowing up truck bombs in vegetable markets or women's schools.

2) "Genocide" is the willful attempt to eliminate and entire ethnic, religious or racial group. Perhaps you want to go easy on the three syllable words.

[ummAbdillah]

all humans are equal. no one is to be treated with favour because of his nationality!

salaam
you're so right, if only everyone understood that...
wa salaam

[nevesirth]

Ummmmm....No


1) The great majority of deaths in Iraq are intersectarian or from "foreign fighters" coming in to immolate themselves by blowing up truck bombs in vegetable markets or women's schools.

2) "Genocide" is the willful attempt to eliminate and entire ethnic, religious or racial group. Perhaps you want to go easy on the three syllable words.

1, who caused the confusion tht triggered intersectarian violence?

2,is the west not trying strategically to eliminate as many muslims as possible by taking war to their door step willfully? tht looks like genocide 2 me.

[wilberhum]

all humans are equal. no one is to be treated with favour because of his nationality!

Well accept for the Britts and the Yanks, they hate everyone.
They are the root of all evil.
They have started every war.
If it is wrong we have done it.
Right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:skeleton:

PS: are you asshamed of where you live?

[nevesirth]

Well accept for the Britts and the Yanks, they hate everyone.
They are the root of all evil.
They have started every war.
If it is wrong we have done it.
Right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:skeleton:

PS: are you asshamed of where you live?

im not ashamed of where i live. ill only diclose tht if necessary or relevant to the present discussion.

[wilberhum]

im not ashamed of where i live. ill only diclose tht if necessary or relevant to the present discussion.

It is just that if you live in the West, I would recoment a Eastern move.

[nevesirth]

It is just that if you live in the West, I would recoment a Eastern move.

lol
u r not in a position 2 decide where i shld leave. thnx for ur suggestion.:statisfie

[nevesirth]

It is just that if you live in the West, I would recoment a Eastern move.

lol
u r not in a position 2 decide where i shld live. thnx for ur suggestion.:statisfie

[wilberhum]

lol
u r not in a position 2 decide where i shld live. thnx for ur suggestion.:statisfie

aa a a dduuubbleee pppooost :D da. Wish I did. :skeleton:

[SATalha]

I listen to alot of radio and the BBC and other stations have been saying that Blair was lying all along and that Ahmedinijad the villified man is the one who looks better in this sitiuation.

[nevesirth]

well i guess the threads going in a different direction.!!!

[SATalha]

Sorry am i going off topic?

[aamirsaab]

:sl:
I think it would be better to close this thead.

Save us all money on aspirin/anadin/paracetamol. :)