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Al_Imaan
04-08-2007, 02:33 AM
Big Bang!

Yusuf Estes presents:

A logical approach to the understanding creation of the universe and it's continuation, based on simple reflection - without emotional prejudices or superstition.

Where did everything come from?
What is the proof?


Islam tells us Allah both The Creator & The Evolver, of all that exits. We know Allah did not evolve us from monkeys, and we know all things are from Allah. Please share this information with those who deny the existence of God. They need it.

There is a popular theory referred to as the 'Big Bang' theory. It tries to explain the existence of the universe in an evolutionary manner having an initial beginning with an immense explosion of some gases or solid mass. Some say there first was a void or a 'nothingness', or perhaps, some gases which exploded then from this everything in the universe simply began to evolve to the stage that we see now. There has never really been any solid evidence for this idea of 'something out of nothing' concept. Nor for that matter, the evolutionary theory itself.

We would like to explore the idea of creation from a purely logical standpoint using simple terminology without religious hype, emotional pre-convictions or superstitions.


What if someone called a 'scientist' tells you his 'theory' of how cars are made is like this:

A salvage yard on the south side of town blows up and all the metal pieces fly into the air and fall back down in one place forming a brand new Chevrolet Caprice automobile . . with no left over parts . . and the motor is running . .

Or what if his theory for how a chair is made is:

An explosion occurs in a forest and the trees go flying into the air and then suddenly they combine with some flying cloth to make a beautiful chair . . . and then it lands in a furniture showroom complete with matching table and lamp . . .

He further explains that:

An earthquake in California's 'Silicon Valley' causes the computer chips and circuit boards and other various parts to fall out of their boxes and off of their shelves and just come in place together as they are rolling around on the floor and form the most advanced technical computers existing on the earth? . . .

Or what of his 'Medicine Theory'? He now claims that:

A gas leak in a pharmacy warehouse causes a terrific explosion. All the different chemicals and substances just smash into each other in exactly the correct amounts to produce a miracle drug which cures everything form cancer to heart and liver disease, old age and warts? . . .

Wait . . . there's more to this one:

It is all in one formula, packaged in the bottles with labels and ready to sell with no mess left on the floor? . . .

Now after all this exploding and excitement this 'scientist' tells you of a great place to relax and have something to eat. It is his favorite place and he calls it: "Burger Blast"!
He says:


You just go in and sit down and suddenly a 'blast' from the kitchen occurs and immediately a burger lands right in front of you with all the trimmings.. just the way you like it complete with fries, a drink and even your favorite dessert? . . .

AND . . .

No one works at "Burger Blast", it just runs itself, automatically cleaning itself and as you leave it scans your billfold for a valid credit card and charges your bank account for what you have eaten? . . .

Now the question is: "Are you really going to accept any of this as 'fact'?

Of course not!

We wouldn't believe a new car is made from flying junk; chairs don't fall down from exploding trees; earthquakes do not produce computers and blasting burgers don't rain down on us from above.

Question: So how come we don't challenge a theory of something coming from nothing and then colliding in the cosmos to make the universe? Is it because of its tremendous magnitude that we have so little comprehension about it, that we are willing to accept any theory from a few telescope 'peeping Toms' to tell us that it came from 'nothingness'? Or just some gases colliding and then. . . 'Poof'!? Instant Universe? How?

Let us now come to our main subject:


Creation or Explosion?



We can turn our attention to the earth and the heavens and make observations on our own without a 'genius' scientist telling us what we are seeing.

And then the idea that nothing is sustaining the heavens and the earth! - 'It just runs itself'? How?

Think about the stars, the sun, the moon and the countless solar systems and galaxies in the universe.
Who or What created them in the first place?
They continue to function and move with the utmost precision and accuracy.
Who does this? Who keeps them gliding along on their courses and orbits preordained for them?
The Qur'an on the Origin of the Universe

Look closer to the heaven surrounding the earth. We call it the 'sky'. Notice the clouds? What are they?
The Qur'an on Clouds

Let us now bring our gaze a bit closer to earth. Consider the mountains and their majesty. Is there anything about these massive formations that may give us a clue as to the origin of creation?
The Qur'an on Mountains

What about the water covering the earth? Is there another clue hiding beneath the seas?
The Qur'an on Deep Seas and Internal Waves

Water covers so much of the earth and even mixes with the land in rivers and streams. Yet is there something keeping it from mixing with itself? What is contained in this mystery of separation of waters?
The Qur'an on Seas and Rivers

What about us? Are we are part of creation? How did we begin? What develops us and causes us to live and die? How are we sustained?
The Qur'an on Human Embryonic Development

Think about the humans. How did we all get here? What is the nature of mankind? What causes us to act as we do? Are we ungrateful to the One who created us and sustains us? What is this clue? Think about yourself. Did you create yourself?
The Qur'an on the Cerebrum (forehead area of the brain in humans)

Who or What created all this? Who is sustaining everything? How do organisms reproduce themselves? How can a tree grow up out of a seed?
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NoName55
04-08-2007, 03:58 AM
:sl:

شکران و جزاکالله خیران والسلام علیکم





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wilberhum
04-08-2007, 07:10 AM
What is the proof?
See my signature.
Reply

Tilmeez
04-13-2007, 07:40 AM
Jazakallah O Khair for shairing sis.
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ranma1/2
04-17-2007, 04:23 AM
Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
[center][b]Big Bang!
.....

Where did everything come from?
What is the proof
No proof but evidence is required, remember proof is for math.?

Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
Islam tells us Allah both The Creator & The Evolver, of all that exits. We know Allah did not evolve us from monkeys, and we know all things are from Allah.
Is the entire book literal or are parts of it metaphorical or poetic?

There is ..the 'Big Bang' theory. It tries to explain the existence of the universe in an ..manner having an initial beginning with an immense explosion of some gases or solid mass.
No not exactly, the big bang refers more to a sudden expansion and not a explosion like a bomb.

The term Big Bang is used both in a narrow sense to refer to a point in time when the observed expansion of the universe (Hubble's law) ...and in a more general sense to refer to the prevailing cosmological paradigm explaining the origin and expansion of the universe. source wiki.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_bang


Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
Some say there first was a void or a 'nothingness', or perhaps, some gases which exploded then from this everything in the universe simply began to evolve to the stage that we see now. There has never really been any solid evidence for this idea of 'something out of nothing' concept. Nor for that matter, the evolutionary theory itself.
Big bang does not = evolutionary theory.
As for how it all started is not known either and that would go into another theory. there are some theories as to wether the universe is cycilic each big bang being folllowed by an eventual big crunch and repeat..

Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
...

What if someone called a 'scientist' tells you his 'theory' of how cars are made is like this:

A salvage yard on the south side of town blows up and all the metal pieces fly into the air and fall back down in one place forming a brand new Chevrolet Caprice automobile . . with no left over parts . . and the motor is running . .
Remember the bigbang theory has nothing to do with evolution nor does it envolve a big explosion as presented here but refers to rather a expansion as i mentioned earlier.

Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
.....
.You just go in and sit down and suddenly a 'blast' from the kitchen occurs and immediately a burger lands right in front of you with all the trimmings.. just the way you like it complete with fries, a drink and even your favorite dessert? . . .
For that i have to say they got some awesome pyrotechs in that restraunt. or Tim the toolman Taylor.

Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
......

..Now the question is: "Are you really going to accept any of this as 'fact'?
Of course not!
Right but they are unrelated to the bigbang or evo. Now if jsut for argument they showed you how it was done then they may have something.


Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
.......

Question: So how come we don't challenge a theory of something coming from nothing and then colliding in the cosmos to make the universe?
I would recomend learing more about the theory and the related theories.


Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
Is it because of its tremendous magnitude that we have so little comprehension about it, that we are willing to accept any theory from a few telescope 'peeping Toms' to tell us that it came from 'nothingness'?
No i would not recommend that to anyone but i would recommend them to learn about it and look at the evidence.

Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
...
Creation or Explosion
At least from a simplicty stance the bigbang is a much simpler explanation.

Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
We can turn our attention to the earth and the heavens and make observations on our own without a 'genius' scientist telling us what we are seeing.
But do you understand why things happen? Do you understand what gravity is and how it works? Thankfully there are speciallists in the fields of science that discover things for us. Thankfullly those discoveries and theories are peer reviewed as to weed out mistakes and fraud.

Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
And then the idea that nothing is sustaining the heavens and the earth! - 'It just runs itself'? How?
Thats what science tries to figure out. It has explained why we dont float off of the earth with the theory of gravity. It explains why the earth circles the sun. It explains why geodes form etc... Nothing special is needed for these things.

Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
Think about the stars, the sun, the moon and the countless solar systems and galaxies in the universe.
Who or What created them in the first place?
nothing to my knowledge.

Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
They continue to function and move with the utmost precision and accuracy.
Who does this?
Laws of nature and physics.

Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
Who keeps them gliding along on their courses and orbits preordained for them?
Noone. The laws of physics do most of that.

Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
Look closer to the heaven surrounding the earth. We call it the 'sky'. Notice the clouds? What are they?
Mostly water.

Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
Let us now bring our gaze a bit closer to earth. Consider the mountains and their majesty. Is there anything about these massive formations that may give us a clue as to the origin of creation?..
They can give us clues as to the history of the earth and perhaps formation events.

Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
What about the water covering the earth? Is there another clue hiding beneath the seas?
Clue to what? to the previous question? Same answer then.


Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
Water covers so much of the earth and even mixes with the land in rivers and streams. Yet is there something keeping it from mixing with itself? What is contained in this mystery of separation of waters?
Yes there are natural explainations.

Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
What about us? Are we are part of creation? How did we begin?
Most biologists would say that based on the evidence we evolved from a common ancestor.

Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
What develops us and causes us to live and die?
?developes? As for life we are products of evolution some children however dont have a chance to live and are still born. Death, well injury, murder, and old age and sickness to name a few.

Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
How are we sustained?
Food, water, air, social interactions myself.


Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
Think about the humans. How did we all get here?
evolution is the most widley held and supported theory in science that answers that question.

Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
What is the nature of mankind?
What do you mean?

Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
What causes us to act as we do?
In general the need to survive and live.

Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
Are we ungrateful to the One who created us and sustains us?
I thought this was supposed to throw religion aside? Well supposing somethign created us i would be greatfull but thats about it. You know "THanks"


Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
What is this clue? Think about yourself. Did you create yourself?
Nope, my parents did.

Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
Who or What created all this?
Earth? Well it was formed a long time ago after the bigbang through natural means.


Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
Who is sustaining everything?
noone


Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
How do organisms reproduce themselves?
Um i think you should realy read a book on biology if you dont know this one.

Originally Posted by al_imaan_786
How can a tree grow up out of a seed?
Yep definitly check out a book on biology.
Reply

shible
04-17-2007, 04:29 AM
:sl:

To be Frank

In some cases our imaginations and thoughts refuses to explore beyond a certain level

And sticks to the last thought which was rooted in that specific subject

Or

It just escapes by asking an irrevelant question..


Where the question is in such a way of exploring new things

but in specific it is a question to escape from believing the truth




:w:
Reply

shible
04-17-2007, 04:52 AM
:sl:


Enough Bro no hardships

Everyonr has their own freedom to express their thoughts and we are not any highly powered people ( Astagfirullah )

So let them learn

hard words will never help anyone explore new worlds

Have patience Islam only teaches Peace and not rudeness

:w:
Reply

Nablus
04-19-2007, 10:28 AM
May Allah bless and reward u sister


Thanx to Allah that we are born Muslims
Reply

shible
04-19-2007, 11:39 AM
:sl:

Well well i can now see

how hard it is for the mod to take care of this forum


Anyway Masha Allah the info was good



:w:
Reply

Woodrow
04-19-2007, 03:13 PM
[CENTER][B]Big Bang!

This is a very massive topic. It is difficult to discuss it in it's entirety in single posts.

I'm just going to address the concept of a "Big Bang" if I understand correctly there are 2 concepts as to what the "Big Bang" was/is.

One concept is matter always existed. at a time it was a singularity. All matter existing in a microscopic speck. The internal pressure of containing all of that matter reaches a point that it can no longer be compressed into a singularity, and it gives and an instant expansion (Big Bang) occurs, which is still continuing.

The first problem with that is how come it hadn't happened earlier. During an eternity of existence, the events that caused the expansion should have occured much further back than a mere 14 Billion years ago.

The explanation I hear for that is it has occured many times and the universe is pulsating. expanding from a microscope singularity, to an infinite sphere, then contracting back to a microscopic sigularity and starting all over.

What I see as a flaw in that thought is that for the universe to stop expanding it would require an infinite external force to stop the expansion or it has obtained an exemption allowing it to stop following the laws of physics.

I could go on more. But that alone is sufficient reason for me to doubt a pulsating universe and the eternal existance of matter.

The second concept of the "Big Bang" is there was no matter, and then in an instant all that exists was formed in one spot and has been expanding ever since.

That view supports Qur'anic teachings. Imagine for a minute at the time of creation and you are able to be an outside enity viewing it take place. What would you see. First you would spend eons seeing nothing physical, no light, no matter, no sound. Absolute nothing.

2:117. To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth: When He decreeth a matter, He saith to it: "Be," and it is. S P C


Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation
From nowhere without warning and without visible source, there it is and it is expanding rapidly (Explosion a "Big Bang")


40:61. It is Allah Who has made the Night for you, that ye may rest therein, and the days as that which helps (you) to see. Verily Allah is full of Grace and Bounty to men: yet most men give no thanks. S P C

40:62. Such is Allah, your Lord, the Creator of all things, there is no god but He: Then how ye are deluded away from the Truth! S P C
40:63. Thus are deluded those who are wont to reject the Signs of Allah. S P C
40:64. It is Allah Who has made for you the earth as a resting place, and the sky as a canopy, and has given you shape- and made your shapes beautiful,- and has provided for you Sustenance, of things pure and good;- such is Allah your Lord. So Glory to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds! S P C

Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation
What would you have seen as an outside observer?

In one flash all of the light in creation, coming from one spot and expanding with the speed of light, All of the sounds of nature in one sudden moment. to an observer, it would be an explosion beyond imagination. A "Big Bang"

Yes, there was a "Big Bang", But it is not an uncontrolled explosion with no source or cause. It is a "Big Bang" we see as the moment of creation.
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Woodrow
04-20-2007, 04:47 AM
Here is an old thread in comparative Religion that has put some interesting thoughts on the "Big Bang"

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...get-bored.html
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