They arent Terrorists, cos they aint Muslims

[akulion]

Its not just these guys it happens all over the world...they will be called "seperatists" "freedom fighters" "rebels" but it seems the word "terrorists" is exclusively used for Muslims in the press...


Eta 'renews commitment to peace'

Video frame grab from Eta
Eta said it was "time to act responsibly"
The Basque separatist group Eta has said it is ready to make new commitments to peace if Spanish authorities end "attacks" against it.

In an interview in the Basque newspaper Gara, Eta said it stood by its ceasefire declaration of March 2006.

Many Eta members have been arrested since it detonated a bomb in December.

The government said on Saturday it would not comment on the interview, but added that Eta "only had to take one single step: renounce violence".

Accusation

Two people died in the blast in a car park in Madrid airport, the first such attack since the ceasefire came into effect.

The bombing led the government to declare it was abandoning the peace process and that there could be no dialogue with Eta while it was engaged in violence.

In its five-page interview, Eta said it was committed to a real democratic solution to the Basque conflict and that it was "time to act responsibly".

Eta accused Spain's ruling Socialist party and moderate Basque nationalist PNV party of blocking peace moves.
The group is seeking an independent state in northern Spain and south-west France.

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6536637.stm
Further Reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETA

[Keltoi]

The description of ETA as a "separatist" group is used because that is what they are, they call for separation from Spain and an independent nation. When they set off bombs at airports and the like they are called terrorist acts. They are also recognized as a terrorist group. One can be a "separatist" and still be a "terrorist".

[wilberhum]

Its not just these guys it happens all over the world...they will be called "seperatists" "freedom fighters" "rebels" but it seems the word "terrorists" is exclusively used for Muslims in the press...

Hardly a realistic statement. There are many Muslim groups that are called Separatists.

A separatist is some one or group that wants a separate government.

A separatist is not a terrorist until they use terrorism.

[Redeemed]

Not all Muslims are terrorist, but it seems like most terrorist are Muslims these days. I know most Muslims do not identify with these terroist, but what are they doing to stop these few from over shadowing Islam in the eyes of the world?

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[akulion]

Yes of course the intentions of IRA and ETA are so 'noble' when they bomb people.

Your own words demonstrate the double standards, I dont have to say more :)

[*Hana*]

Not all Muslims are terrorist, but it seems like most terrorist are Muslims these days. I know most Muslims do not identify with these terroist, but what are they doing to stop these few from over shadowing Islam in the eyes of the world?

What are the Christians doing to stop the Lord's Resistance Army from over shadowing Christianity? Never heard of them? Maybe you need to ask why you've never heard of them. Then you need to look at what they are doing in the name of Christianity. Clean your own backyard first before asking any of us why we can't control individuals that choose to behave outside the teachings of Islam. By the way they ARE terrorists, but where is the outrage? Where is the crying for the innocents in Uganda. Oh right...no oil, no benefit, no use. Let them die, they're insignificant. Ahhhh, how proudly they serve Christianity.

And you could have at least used an original quote. Not all Muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are Muslim (which is the correct phrase). That one comment alone shows your own double standard, but when combined with the rest of your statement the ignorance is staggering. Remember this quote: "better for them to THINK you're a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

It never fails to amaze me. As Aku says, no need to say more. :)

Peace,
Hana

[wilberhum]

Yes of course the intentions of IRA and ETA are so 'noble' when they bomb people.

Your own words demonstrate the double standards, I dont have to say more :)

That is strange, I don't see anyone saying the IRA and ETA are Noble.

[barney]

3 Words

Kosovo Liberation Army.1999

Muslim seperatists that the British and Americans spilt blood for to protect them from Genocide.(Genocide in the real sense, not troops firing rubber bullets at petrol bombers)

Initial accusation exploded. Oh and ETA deliberatly kill innocents which does make them terrorists. If they just targeted Spains Army or infrastructure it might be different, but since they are using arms against a democratic Government i would at best call them "Rebels"

No more to be said,.............. carry on.

[snakelegs]

i think akulion has a point.
the word "terrorist" or "terrorism" is used much more frequently with the word "muslim" or "islamic" than it is with various other terrorist groups in the world.

[barney]

Yes of course the intentions of IRA and ETA are so 'noble' when they bomb people.

Your own words demonstrate the double standards, I dont have to say more :)

Some US groups said the IRA was justified back in the 80's. But meh..we can all make mistakes.

[*Hana*]

i think akulion has a point.
the word "terrorist" or "terrorism" is used much more frequently with the word "muslim" or "islamic" than it is with various other terrorist groups in the world.

Yup, absolutely, snakelegs.

If I say the simple word 'terrorist', what comes to mind today? The brilliance of propaganda at work. Yet, previously it was the Russians and before them the Vietnamese, Japanese, etc., etc.

Peace,

Hana

[Joe98]

Yup, absolutely, snakelegs.

If I say the simple word 'terrorist', what comes to mind today? The brilliance of propaganda at work.

What propaganda?

Who thought up the propoganda?

Where were the meetings held?

How was the planning done?

[barney]

i think akulion has a point.
the word "terrorist" or "terrorism" is used much more frequently with the word "muslim" or "islamic" than it is with various other terrorist groups in the world.

A List of the Worlds Terrorrists/seperatists and Freedom Fighters.


Christian
Army of God[2]
God's Army A terrorist group in Myanmar.
Nagaland Rebels (1947-present) Active in predominantly Christian state in Hindu majority India. Involved in several bombings in 2004. Goal: Independence from India after annexing parts of neighboring Indian states and Burma if it has Christian majority.
National Liberation Front of Tripura (1989-present) A group that seeks the independence of Tripura from India to create a Christian Tripura.
KKK is a fraternal organizations in the United States that have advocated white supremacy, anti-Semitism, racism, anti-Catholicism, homophobia, and nativism.
Phineas Priesthood An American based Christian Identity movement.
National Democratic Front of Bodoland, active terrorist in the Indian state of Assam, involved in the murder of Bineshwar Brahma, prominent Hindu Bodo activist

Islamist
Abu Sayyaf (1991-present; Islamist separatists; the Philippines)
Based in the southern islands of Jolo, Basilan, and Mindanao.
Branched off of the Moro National Liberation Front.
Allegedly partnered with Jemaah Islamiyah and Al-Qaeda.
Aden-Abyan Islamic Army (Yemen)
Adolat - Uzbekistan
Akramiya - Uzbekistan
Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya (Late 1970s-present; Islamists; Egypt)
Seeks to establish Islamist state in Egypt. Usually targets secular establishments, government buildings, police, the military, minorities, tourists, and “morally offensive” buildings.
Armed Islamic Group (1992-present; Islamists; Algeria)
Seeks to establish Islamist state in Algeria. Began operations in 1992 after the Algerian government ignored election results that gave victory to Islamist political parties.
Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades
Ansar al-Islam (December 2001-present; Islamists; Iraq)
In Arabic, "Supporters of Islam."
Also known as "Partisans of Islam or Helpers of Islam."
Al-Qaeda (1988-present; Islamists; Afghanistan, Pakistan, and worldwide)
In Arabic, "the foundation", "the base", or "the database" kept by intelligence services of anti-Soviet Afghani fighters.
Also known as Qa‘idat al-Jihad, Islamic Army for the Liberation of the Holy Places, World Islamic Front for Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders, Islamic Salvation Foundation, and the Osama bin Laden Network.
Related: Alneda (former web site), As-Sahab (affiliated public relations organization),
Cells: Buffalo six, Hamburg cell,
Asbat al-Ansar (early 1990s-present; Lebanese Sunni Islamists; southern Lebanon)
In Arabic, "the League of the Followers."
Acronym for "Harakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiya," or Islamic Resistance Movement.
Jama'at al-Tawhid wa'al-Jihad/Al-Qaeda in Iraq - Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's Sunni network, operating in Iraq
on U.S. State Department list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations
Eastern Turkestan Islamic Movement - al-Qaeda linked separatist group in China's Xinjiang Autonomous Region aiming to establish an Islamic state. Banned by China, along with related groups East Turkestan Liberation Organization, World Uighur Youth Congress and East Turkistan Information Center[3]
Egyptian Islamic Jihad - Egypt (active since the late 1970s)
Hamas - West Bank, Gaza Strip. Listed as a terrorist organization by Australia, Canada, the European Union, Israel, and the United States
Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM) - Pakistan and Kashmir
Hizb-an-nusra - Uzbekistan
Hizb ut-Tahrir - international (legal in Britain and Australia)
Hezbollah - Lebanon; Listed as a terrorist organization by Australia, Canada, the Netherlands, Israel, and the United States
Hizbul Mujahideen - Pakistan and Kashmir
Hofstad Network - Netherlands
Islamic Front for the Liberation of Bahrain - Defunct
Islamic Movement of Central Asia - Central Asia (affiliated with Al Qaeda)
Islamic Movement of Tajikistan - Tajikistan
Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan - Uzbekistan
Jaish-e-Mohammed - Pakistan
Jaish Ansar al-Sunna - Iraq
Jama'at al-Jihad al-Islami
Jemaah Islamiyah - Southeast Asia
Jihad Rite - Australia (linked with Al Qaeda. Founded in 2001)
Lashkar-e-Jhangvi - Pakistan
Lashkar-e-Toiba - Pakistan
Maktab al-Khadamat - Afghanistan - Defunct
Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group - Morocco and Spain
Moro Islamic Liberation Front - (Islamic separatists; the Philippines)
Palestinian Islamic Jihad - Israel, West Bank, Gaza Strip
People Against Gangsterism and Drugs - South Africa
Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat - Algeria
Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan - Pakistan
Students Islamic Movement of India - India
Takfir wal-Hijra - Egypt/Sudan/Algeria
Tehreek-e-Nafaz-e-Shariat- e-Mohammadi (TNSM) - Pakistan[4]
Turkish Hezbollah - Kurdish organization operating in Turkey
Turkish Islamic Jihad - Turkey

Islamist fronts
Al-Barakaat (Al-Qaida front)
Al-Wafa Humanitarian Organization (Al-Qaida front)
Benevolence International Foundation (Al-Qaida front)
Global Relief Foundation (Al-Qaida front)
Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (Hamas)
Konsojaya Trading Company (Jemaah Islamiyah front)
Al Qaeda
Jewish
Kahane Chai (designated as terrorist by Israel, the EU, and USA)

Sikh
Babbar Khalsa
Bhinderanwala Tiger Force of Khalistan
International Sikh Youth Federation [3]
Dashmesh Regiment
Khalistan Commando Force
Khalistan Liberation Force
Khalistan Liberation Front
Khalistan National Army
Khalistan Zindabad Force [4]
Saheed Khalsa Force
All of these groups demand a Khalistan (Land of the Pure) in the Indian state of Punjab and adjoining areas for Sikhs. Most have a variable amount of support from Sikhs abroad and have been in existence since the 1980s. Many have been weakened and have cut down on activities, yet they continue. The militancy in Punjab has claimed approximately 100,000 lives, according to estimates put forward by Amnesty International: this figure involves killings by both Sikh militants and the Indian forces. With the exception of the first two, the other groups have only been proscribed in India.


Other religious terrorists
Aum Supreme Truth (Aum Shinrikyo) - Japan (homicidal religious cult)
Lord's Resistance Army Christian/Pagan/Muslim terrorist group that operates in northern Uganda, it seeks to overthrow the Ugandan government and create a country based on the ten commandments.[5]

Nationalistic terrorist organizations

Irish Nationalists (Northern Ireland)
Irish National Liberation Army (1974-Present)
Splinter group:
Irish People's Liberation Organisation (1986-1992, defunct)
Irish Republican Army (1922-1969)split into- 'Official IRA' and 'Provisional IRA'.
Official IRA (defunct)
Provisional Irish Republican Army (PIRA) (1969–2002)[5]
Supporters of the PIRA split from 'Official' Sinn Féin to form Provisional Sinn Féin. Provisional Sinn Féin was later known simply as Sinn Féin (while 'Official' Sinn Féin eventually became the Workers' Party).
Under ceasefire since the Good Friday Agreement of 1998
Ended armed campaign in September 2005.
Splinter groups:
Continuity Irish Republican Army (CIRA) (1986-present)
Also known as the "Continuity Army Council" and "Óglaigh na hÉireann" (Gaelic for 'Volunteers of Ireland')
Real Irish Republican Army (RIRA) (1997-present)*
Also known as the True IRA and Óglaigh na hÉireann (Gaelic for Volunteers of Ireland).
Does not recognize Good Friday Agreement.

Ulster Loyalists (Northern Ireland)
Ulster Volunteer Force (original UVF 1912-1921, current UVF has existed since 1966)
Very closely linked with the Red Hand Commandos (1972-present).
Splinter group: Loyalist Volunteer Force
Ulster Defence Association (1971-present)
Also called the "Ulster Freedom Fighters," or UFF.
On February 22, 2003, announced a "complete and utter cessation" of all acts of violence for one year. It said it will review its ceasefire every three months, although in February 2006, the Independent Monitoring Commission reported that the UDA continued its paramilitary activities, as well as involvement in organized crime, drug trafficking, counterfeiting, extortion, money laundering and robbery
Splinter group: Red Hand Defenders
Red Hand Commandos {created in 1972) allied with the UVF
Red Hand Defenders (1998-present) an affiliate organization with both the UDA and LVF who are allies. Opposes ceasefire.
Loyalist Volunteer Force (1996-2005)
Ulster Freedom Fighters (created in 1972) an affiliate of the UDA
Ulster Resistance 1986-1990 Created by the Democratic Unionist Party, now defunct
Red Branch Knights (1992)
Orange Volunteers (1998-present)

Indonesia
Barisan Merah Putih; ultra nationalist group first recruited by KOPASSUS
Laskar Jihad; Islamic ultra nationist group

Palestinian

Jewish (Historical)
Main article: Zionist political violence
Irgun (1931-1948) - regarded as a terrorist group by the British authorities and mainstream Zionist organizations (not during most of World War II).
Lehi (1940-1948) - regarded as a terrorist group by the British authorities.

Arab
Main article: Palestinian political violence
Main article: :Category:Palestinian militant groups
Abu Nidal
Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades
Black Hand (Palestine)
Black September (group)
Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP)
Fatah Hawks
Force 17
Hamas - listed as a terrorist organization by Australia,[6] Canada,[7][8] the United Kingdom,[9] the European Union,[10] Israel, and the United States,[11] and is banned in Jordan.[12]
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command (PFLP-GC)
Popular Resistance Committees
Palestinian Islamic Jihad Movement
Palestine Liberation Front
Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) (1964-present) - On December 14, 1988, the PLO officially renounced the use of terrorist tactics. In 1993 it became the PA (Palestinian Authority). Although it claims it does not support terrorism, documents show that the PA/PLO has actively supported and sponsored various terrorist groups in Israel.[13][14] According to the NCIS, the PLO is "the richest of all terrorist organizations." (1993)[15]
The Holy Jihad Brigade
Tanzim

Tamil Terrorist
Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE, aka Tamil Tigers)- Sri Lanka. One of the largest terrorist groups with an estimated 11,000[6] Tamil cadres who fight for separation from Sri Lanka. The group has carried out 240+ suicide bombings since the early 80s in a brutal civil war which they describe as their freedom struggle. Members of the group carried out the suicide bomber assassinations of Sri Lankan President Ranasinghe Premadasa (1988-1993) and former Indian Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi [7]. UNHCR has reported that this organisation conscripts and brainwashes children by force, and carries out Ethnic cleansing on Tamil-Muslim and Sinhalese civilians in the jungle areas it controls.[8]

Other nationalist terrorists
An gof - an gof - Cornwall - was thought to be inactive but as of March 12th 2007 they have become active once more.
Anuak Terrorist Militants Western Ethiopia and Eastern Sudan.
East Turkestan Islamic Movement - Central Asia and China
East Turkistan Liberation Organization (China)
ETA (Basque Fatherland and Liberty) - Spain and southern France (founded 1959)
GAL (Grupos Antiterroristas de Liberación) Spanish death squad (1980s)
Scottish National Liberation Army (SNLA) - Scotland (defunct)
Croatian Revolutionary Brotherhood - Yugoslavia (disbanded)
Front de Libération du Quebec - Canada (founded 1963)
Cells: Chenier Cell, Liberation Cell,
Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK/KADEK/KONGRA-GEL) - Turkey
Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA; 1993-1999) - Federal Republic of Yugoslavia
Los Macheteros - Puerto Rico (founded 1976)
National Council of Resistance of Iran (MKO front)[16][17]
National Front for the Liberation of Corsica (FLNC) - France
People's Mujahedin of Iran (MEK/MKO) - Iran
Armed Islamic Group (GIA) - France, Algeria
OJAL (Algeria)
Ogaden National Liberation Front
Oromo Liberation Front - 1973
Organisation armée secrète (OAS) - France, Algeria (disbanded)
VMO (1950-1970 and 1971-1983) - Flanders

Anarchist
Anti-State Justice
Black Star
Conscientious Arsonists
The Angry Brigade
New Revolutionary Alternative
Squamish Five

Leftist, Communist, Leninist, Trotskyst, Maoist and Marxist
Action Directe - France
African National Congress - South Africa (renounced violence)
Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia (ASALA, disbanded since 1986) - Lebanon, Armenia and the USA
CCC - Belgium
Chukaku-Ha - Japan
Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist) - Nepal - currently taking part in disarmament and cooperation in a new interim government for Nepal
Ejército de Liberación Nacional - Colombia
Forças Populares 25 de Abril - Portugal (1980 - 1987)
GRAPO - Spain
Japanese Red Army (Sekigun) - Japan
June 2 Movement - West Germany (disbanded)
Khmer Rouge - Cambodia (disbanded)
Naxals or Naxalites - India
NPA or New People's Army - Philippines
Revolutionary Organization 17 November (17N) - Greece
Pan-Africanist Congress - South Africa (renounced violence)
People's War Group - India
Red Army Faction (popularly known as the Baader-Meinhof Gang) - Germany (founded 1967, disbanded)
Red Brigades (Brigate Rosse) - Italy (founded 1969)
Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) - Colombia
Revolutionary People's Liberation Party-Front (DHKP & DHKP/C) - Turkey
Shining Path (Sendero Luminoso) - Peru (active since the late 1960s)
Symbionese Liberation Army - USA (disbanded)
Túpac Amaru Revolutionary Movement (MRTA) - Peru
United Freedom Front - USA (founded in 1976, now disbanded)
United Liberation Front of Assam - India
Weathermen - USA (founded in 1969, now disbanded)
Spin-off: May 19th Communist Movement (active 1978-85)

Ethnic terrorists (including neo-Nazis and white-supremacists)
Army for the Liberation of Rwanda - Rwanda (Hutu emancipatory;genocidal)
Aryan Nations - United States
Boeremag - South Africa
Combat 18 - United Kingdom
Column 88 - United Kingdom
CSA - United States
Creativity Movement - United States
Jondollah - Iran
Ku Klux Klan - United States (founded in 1865 and revived several times since).
Mouvement d'Action et Défense Masada - France (disbanded). This was a French neo-Nazi organization, disguised as a Zionist extremist group, which attacked Arab targets.
National Socialist Movement - United Kingdom
The Order - United States (disbanded)
Racial Volunteer Force - United Kingdom
White Aryan Resistance - United States

Anti-Communists
Contras - Nicaragua
Alianza Anticomunista Argentina - Argentina
Alianza Americana Anticomunista - Colombia
Autodefensas Unidas de Colombia - Colombia
Ranvir Sena - India

Cuban exile groups
Further information: Opposition to Fidel Castro
All groups recognised by the International terrorism report from the United States Central Intelligence Agency.[18] The principle aim of these groups is to forge political change in Cuba.

Abdala
Alpha 66
Anti-Castro Commando
Anti-Communist Commandos
Brigade 2506
Condor
Coordination of United Revolutionary Organizations (CORU - includes Orlando Bosch and Luis Posada Carriles)
Cuba Action
Cuba Action Commandos
Cuban Anti-Communist League
Cuban C-4
Movement Cuban Liberation Front
Cuban National Liberation Front (FLNC)
Cuban Power (el Poder Cubano)
Cuban Power
Cuban Representation in Exile
Cuban Revolutionary Directorate
Cuban Revolutionary Organization
Cuban Youth Group International
Secret Revolutionary United Cells
JCN (expansion unknown)
Latin American Anti-Communist Army
Movement of Cuban Justice Movement of the Seventh (M-7)
National Integration Front (FIN; Cuban Nationalist Front)
Omega 7
Pedro Luis Boitel
Command Pedro Ruiz Botero
Commandos Pragmatistas
Scorpion (el Alacran)
Second Front of Escambray
Secret Anti-Castro Cuban Army
Secret Cuban Government
Secret Hand Organization
Secret Organization Zero
Young Cubans
Youths of the Star

Issue-specific

Ecologist
Animal Liberation Front (ALF) - operates worldwide. Property damage and animal release, related to animal rights issues. Listed as one of the top domestic threats by United States Department of Homeland Security, FBI and ATF.
Earth Liberation Front (ELF) - Founded 1992; operates in US, Canada, and UK. Property destruction, related to environmental issues. Listed as one of the top domestic threats by United States Department of Homeland Security, FBI and ATF.
Environmental Life Force - Disbanded in 1972. Used explosive and incendiary devices in defense of the environment.

Abortion
Army of God -- anti-abortion, operates in the United States. Property damage and loss of life in attacks on abortion clinics.

Others

Africa
Interahamwe - Rwanda - Hutu nationalist, strongly anti Tutsi. Responsible for the 1994 Rwanda genocide
Janjaweed - Sudan
Mungiki - Kenya
Revolutionary United Front - Sierra Leonean rebels

Caribbean
Front for the Advancement and Progress of Haiti (FRAPH) - Haiti
National Revolutionary Front for the Liberation of Haiti - Haiti
Tonton Macoutes - Haiti

France
Action Directe (AD), an anti-NATO organization responsible for the 1986 murder of Georges Besse.

Portugal
FLAMA Madeira Archipelago Liberation Front, separatist group from Madeira.
Frente de Libertação dos Açores (FLA) Azores Liberation Front, separatist group from Azores.

Spain
ETA Euskadi Ta Askatasuna, main terrorist organization in Spain responsible of the numerous bombings, seeking an independent Basque Country. See also Kale borroka.
GAL Grupo Antiterrorista de Liberacion, terrorist organization of the government in the 1980s.
GRAPO Grupo Antifacista Primero de Octubre, terrorist organization of extreme left
FAG Fuerzas Armadas Guanches, terrorist organization of the Islas Canarias part of MPAIAC in the 1970s.
Terra Lliure terrorist group of Catalonia in the 1980s. and 1990s.
Exercito Guerrilleiro do Povo Galego Ceibe separatist group in Galicia

United Kingdom
Animal Rights Militia, a terrorist organization responsible for numerous letter bombs in Great Britain during the 1980s.
Scottish National Liberation Army, a Scottish terrorist organization fighting for the cause of Scottish independence.
An Gof, a Cornish terrorist organization fighting for the cause of Cornish independence.

United States
Afro-American Liberation Army (AALA), a terrorist organization active in Los Angeles during the 1970s.
Aliens of America, a terrorist organization active in Los Angeles during the 1970s.
American Indian Movement (AIM), originally founded as a civil rights organization, the AIM was involved in the 1972 occupations of the Mayflower II, Mount Rushmore and the Bureau of Indian Affairs headquarters in Washington, D.C. as well as the 1973 standoff at Wounded Knee during which members were involved in gun battles with federal agents.
Americans for Justice, a terrorist organization active on the west coast during the 1970s.
Bay Bombers, a radical terrorist organization active in San Francisco, California during the 1960s.
Black Afro Militant Movement (BAMM), a militant terrorist organization
Black Liberation Army (BLA), an offshoot faction of the Black Panther Party reportedly involved in murders of police officers in San Francisco and New York between 1971 and 1973.
Black Muslims, a separatist involved in numerous shootouts with police and other violent activities including the "Zebra Killings" in which fourteen people were murdered in the San Francisco-area.
Black Nation of Islam (BNI), a terrorist organization active during the 1970s and 80s.
Black Revolutionary, a terrorist organization active in New York during the 1970s.
Symbionese Liberation Army (SLA), a terrorist organization responsible for the 1973 murder of Oakland school superintendent Marcus Foster and, most notably, the 1974 kidnapping of Patricia Hearst.
Weather Underground (WU), radical terrorist organization responsible for nineteen bombings between 1969 and 1974, including the U.S. Capitol Building in 1971 and The Pentagon in 1974.

So We can see that out of the religious groups. Islamist groups have demonstratably the most (source wiki)

The Other major newsworthy factor is the scale and damage these groups cause. The An-Gof cornish seperatists will meet in pubs once a year and sing songs. evry 4th year they will mail a death-threat to someone who's not cornish.

Al Quada meanwhile is behind tens of thousands of deaths and Madrid's trains wasnt blown up by Maderian Seperatists. The Animal liberation guys might kill a person every other year, but they have about 250 members worldwide who are actively engaged in umm..activitys.
So the Big news is the Big Bombs....and the groups that do that all claim that they are Muslim.

[wilberhum]

The brilliance of propaganda at work.

So you think it is propaganda?
propaganda deceptive or distorted information that is systematically spread
Can you give me an example of the distortion? Who is doing this systematically?

[*Hana*]

So you think it is propaganda?
propaganda deceptive or distorted information that is systematically spread
Can you give me an example of the distortion? Who is doing this systematically?

you're kidding, right???

Gimme a break!

[akulion]

Well one has to wonder why so many Muslim groups are listed in that list you posted...

after all dont Muslims have the right to fight for their way of life?

Or do only non-muslims have it?

One simple example:

Iraqis fighting to liberate Iraq from the US and UK: Terrorists
US and UK suppressing and occupying Iraq by force: Liberators


You dont have to go far to see the truth really :)
Not to mention that war is Illegal - not sanctioned by the UN and was opposed by the UN as well

[barney]

The old saying one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter is utter %$%%$%

A terrorist is a group which attempts to gain it's political ideological or religious objectives through the deliberate targeting of innocents.

Thats all the definition anyone needs.

[*Hana*]

The old saying one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter is utter %$%%$%

A terrorist is a group which attempts to gain it's political ideological or religious objectives through the deliberate targeting of innocents.

Thats all the definition anyone needs.

Bingo, Barney!

You have just described the illegal invasion of Iraq by US and British forces. Congrats!

Hana

[akulion]

To you it may be "%$%%$%" but to me it isnt.

I dont know if you followed the debate on BBC

///////
Has the word "terrorism" lost its meaning?

What do people mean when they describe something as "terrorism"?

British Prime Minister Tony Blair called the killing of four British servicemen and their translator on Thursday an "act of terrorism".

Can insurgents in Iraq - who some would say use terror tactics against the general population - be accused of terrorism when it applies to troops?

Is terrorism a redundant phrase? Is a "terrorist" now someone who fights against you and your cause? What does the word mean to you? Send us your comments.
///////
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thre...20070409032939

i think they pinned it in the question itself...

Bush and Blair term everyone terrorist simply because those people are fighting against their cause. Nothing more....

After all who are the insurgents? Its the Iraqi people wanting the USA and UK out!

[barney]

Well one has to wonder why so many Muslim groups are listed in that list you posted...

after all dont Muslims have the right to fight for their way of life?

Not by killing innocents

Iraqis fighting to liberate Iraq from the US and UK: Terrorists
US and UK suppressing and occupying Iraq by force: Liberators

The ones engaged in targeting the allies of the Iraqi Government: Rebels. (not many of them about)
The ones Blowing up iraqi kids and mothers to the tune of 100 a day: terrorists (thousands of them)
The Jihadists coming into the soverign State of iraq from Iran Syria Palastine: invaders.
The US & UK Troops Protecting the Soverign people of iraq from Death squads. Liberators. (Check my signiture, iraq's freely elected government is ASKING us to stay and help, we are Allies with them.)

You dont have to go far to see the truth really :)
Not to mention that war is Illegal - not sanctioned by the UN and was opposed by the UN as well

Wasnt opposed, the vote wasnt taken due to France & Russia's veto threats.
The Majority of iraqi people then....and now ...agreed with it. =Liberation.

Takes a bit to carve through propaganda from the east and wests media, but the facts are there and theyre clear.

[barney]

Bingo, Barney!

You have just described the illegal invasion of Iraq by US and British forces. Congrats!

Hana

Deliberate targeting proof please. Show me the UK helmets worn by the suicide bombers. Show me the waves of B52's carpet bombing the Iraqi people as opposed to the extreme lenghs taken by the coalition to prevent civilian casulties.
Contrast please with the jihadists "in the name of Islam" shredding football playing kids.

thanks

[akulion]

The ones engaged in targeting the allies of the Iraqi Government: Rebels. (not many of them about)
The ones Blowing up iraqi kids and mothers to the tune of 100 a day: terrorists (thousands of them)
The Jihadists coming into the soverign State of iraq from Iran Syria Palastine: invaders.
The US & UK Troops Protecting the Soverign people of iraq from Death squads. Liberators. (Check my signiture, iraq's freely elected government is ASKING us to stay and help, we are Allies with them.)

The ones engaged in targeting the allies of the Iraqi Government: Iraqi Govt or US puppets?

The ones Blowing up iraqi kids and mothers to the tune of 100 a day: Yes the bombs which they dropped form the skies killing women children and people and destroying their homes: USA and UK

The Jihadists coming into the soverign State of iraq from Iran Syria Palastine: Well maybe you havent heard but the Muslims are told to help one another. The US and UK invaded and started killing civilians calling it 'colleteral damage' so its their duty to go and fight the invaders.

The US & UK Troops Protecting the Soverign people of iraq from Death squads. Liberators: Protecting or suppressing? An Iraqi who today would say to a troop "go home" would be arrested as a terrorist. They break into everyones homes day and night at will. Dosent sound like liberation to me. So stop talking rubbish mate.

Wasnt opposed, the vote wasnt taken due to France & Russia's veto threats.

Well maybe you didnt hear but that what the UN is, it votes, and if its not taken due to opposition dosent mean you just say "what the hell, lets just do it anyways"

The Majority of iraqi people then....and now ...agreed with it. =Liberation.

Yes I am sure they carried out a poll in Iraq before they went in and bombed their cities destroying everything in sight.

[wilberhum]

Bingo, Barney!

You have just described the illegal invasion of Iraq by US and British forces. Congrats!

Hana

There will always be those that twist the meaning of words to suit there purpose.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Part of the definition is trying to impose a form of ideology or government in another country. Does that ring a bell? Yup! Democracy! How about trying to make a democratic government when majority dont want it?

[Keltoi]

Any group that intentionally and willfully targets a civilian population to achieve a political objective is a terrorist. That includes ETA, IRA, KKK, Al-Qaeda, and the list goes on. The fact that this article refers to ETA as a separatist group is because ETA has a separatist goal. When ETA uses terrorist tactics in an attempt to further that goal they are called exactly that, terrorists.

[barney]

To you it may be "%$%%$%" but to me it isnt.

I dont know if you followed the debate on BBC

///////
Has the word "terrorism" lost its meaning?

What do people mean when they describe something as "terrorism"?

British Prime Minister Tony Blair called the killing of four British servicemen and their translator on Thursday an "act of terrorism".

Can insurgents in Iraq - who some would say use terror tactics against the general population - be accused of terrorism when it applies to troops?

After all who are the insurgents? Its the Iraqi people wanting the USA and UK out!

Attacks on the allies of the freely elected Govt of Iraq are rebel attacks. I've already said that. I think Blair was wrong, although i dont know how many iraqi civilians died in that attack.
What would you call the Guys who walk into hospitals and gun down teenagers who have survived the bombs in the mosques? Freedom-fighters?

And if you cant differentiate the difference between freedom fighter and terrorist...if you think theyre the same thing when viewed by rational people (rationality defined here by my own standards,as applies to us all), theres not much hope in having a realistic debate with you.

[barney]

Part of the definition is trying to impose a form of ideology or government in another country. Does that ring a bell? Yup! Democracy! How about trying to make a democratic government when majority dont want it?

The Majority do. they Voted for it. I dont know if you can vote or if your still stuck in one of the dictatorships, but the Iraqi's had a 80% turn out for elections. I dont know if i would do that if I thought I was going to be mowed down at the polling stations.

Just check the results of the numerous polls in Iraq. All show that the people want us to leave. When the Terrorists have gone.

[wilberhum]

Part of the definition is trying to impose a form of ideology or government in another country. Does that ring a bell? Yup! Democracy! How about trying to make a democratic government when majority dont want it?

I truly wish we could give you Sadam back.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Actually they want everyone to leave NOW. If they wanted the US and others to leave after, they wouldnt be complaining against the US or whomever.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

I truly wish we could give you Sadam back.

I truly wish you would pay attention to your ignorance. Look at yourself before you bark about others. You'd want to give Saddam back cause he was yours in the first place.

[akulion]

I think now days everyone is coming up with their own definitions of terrorism

So simply to me the USA and UK troops and govts are the real terrorists.

Simply because they have:
a) occupied a nation forcefully
b) did the preemptive strike in war based on complete lies with no evidence and no support from the UN
c) killed countless civilians, bombed countless homes, destroyed countlesslives.
d) Thrown an ENTIRE country into chaos as a result of which every tom dick and harry is now picking up arms

So really I will say my final words here....to me it is just double standards terming muslim groups as terrorists, while the biggest terrorists roam freely killing, invading, destroying as they please

"kill 1 man and u are a murderer, kill a million and you are a conqueror" (nowadays called liberator)

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

"kill 1 man and u are a murderer, kill a million and you are a conqueror" (nowadays called liberator)

Oh yea...!

[wilberhum]

I too wish we we would leave. Let the Iraqis kill each other till the last man is standing.

[north_malaysian]

Jewish
Kahane Chai (designated as terrorist by Israel, the EU, and USA)

Eh? I dont know about this.... why Israel call them terrorists?

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Well the US being there made it 1000 times worse. It might still be like that but at least not as atrocious.

[Keltoi]

I too wish we we would leave. Let the Iraqis kill each other till the last man is standing.

It is tempting to throw up our hands and watch them all kill each other. However, as Colin Powell said, you break it you fix it. While that looks like an impossible task at this point, in my opinion you have to ignore the cynics and simply let the U.S. military do their job. You would be surprised what they can accomplish when they are supported.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Yup they r doin a lot even with all that support. You got all the super powers, What more do u need?

It is tempting to throw up our hands and watch them all kill each other.

I'll never forget that quote. You only proved how much "peace" you want there.

[Keltoi]

Yup they r doin a lot even with all that support. You got all the super powers, What more do u need?

I was referring to the support of the American people and their government.

[barney]

The ones engaged in targeting the allies of the Iraqi Government: Iraqi Govt or US puppets?: That dosnt actually make any sense..i assume you mean the Elections were faked. well if you have never had elections i suppose you would think that.

The ones Blowing up iraqi kids and mothers to the tune of 100 a day: Yes the bombs which they dropped form the skies killing women children and people and destroying their homes: USA and UK. WWW.Iraqbodycount.org If we wanted to kill Iraqi's then the country would be a wasteland by now. I'm clearly wasting my time here because you havnt done any research at all, just parrotting some popular myths. Each Day the Coalition could unload 29,000000 lbs of High explosive on Iraq's citysin a single strike by one weapon system the B1. we havnt, the Guys in black robes and suicide belts really honestly are not coalition troops. you seem to have little to no understanding of the realitys in iraq. please do a tiny bit of independent research. The site i linked is a anti west site. Youll like it

The Jihadists coming into the soverign State of iraq from Iran Syria Palastine: Well maybe you havent heard but the Muslims are told to help one another.By Blowing ten shades out of women?

The US and UK invaded and started killing civilians calling it 'colleteral damage' so its their duty to go and fight the invaders. The war against the Baathists finished after 21 days. Some of our bombs missed. The Iraqi's still agreed with the invasion. Go figure.:rollseyes Jihadists are NOT WANTED by the Iraqi people

The US & UK Troops Protecting the Soverign people of iraq from Death squads. Liberators: Protecting or suppressing? An Iraqi who today would say to a troop "go home" would be arrested as a terrorist. They break into everyones homes day and night at will. Dosent sound like liberation to me. So stop talking rubbish mate.
They hold big demonstrations quite often. No arrests as long as theyre peaceful and dont start shooting. just like in the west. and guess what...they have to raid suspected houses. I know...lets stop doing that then the death toll of innocents can go through the freaking roof.

Well maybe you didnt hear but that what the UN is, it votes, and if its not taken due to opposition dosent mean you just say "what the hell, lets just do it anyways"

Yes I am sure they carried out a poll in Iraq before they went in and bombed their cities destroying everything in sight.

1,500 civilains died in the 21 days. Human sheilds for the fedyeen, schoolkids told to sit on stacks of bombs, familys hung in the streets for chanting anti Baathist slogans. yes some bombs missed. but we diddnt deliberatly target them. unlike some people I may mention.

The UN? Article 51. Covers it.

The Poll was carried out after the war. Iraqi citys , mosques and schools were intact. Baathist installations flattened. We shot at things firing at us. Those things were Baathists and Jihadists. The Iraqi Army just went home.

[Keltoi]

Yup they r doin a lot even with all that support. You got all the super powers, What more do u need?



I'll never forget that quote. You only proved how much "peace" you want there.

Throwing up our hands and walking away would result in exactly the situation I described. I meant that it is tempting to give up and deal with the consequences, not that I wanted such a thing to occur.

[wilberhum]

It is tempting to throw up our hands and watch them all kill each other. However, as Colin Powell said, you break it you fix it. While that looks like an impossible task at this point, in my opinion you have to ignore the cynics and simply let the U.S. military do their job. You would be surprised what they can accomplish when they are supported.

I don't disagree, entirely. For a long time, I thought as you. But I came to the realization that there has been sectarian violence since there were two sects.
Muslims have been killing each other for 1400 years. We can't stop it.
As much as I agree that we have a huge responsibility, we can't make pigs fly.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

I was referring to the support of the American people and their government.

And the government plays the role in what is happening there, does it not?

[wilberhum]

And the government plays the role in what is happening there, does it not?

Muslims are killing each other because of there hate.

[Keltoi]

And the government plays the role in what is happening there, does it not?

Yes, but the situation in Iraq is a burden carried by the U.S. military without much involvement of the American people whatsoever. Not comparing this to WWII, obviously, but the American people were willing to sacrifice alot for our servicemen and women, and that has changed for the worst in my opinion.

[Keltoi]

I don't disagree, entirely. For a long time, I thought as you. But I came to the realization that there has been sectarian violence since there were two sects.
Muslims have been killing each other for 1400 years. We can't stop it.
As much as I agree that we have a huge responsibility, we can't make pigs fly.

You may be right. Don't think I'm a gung-ho supporter of this war, I just care about our military and the sacrifice they are making while the rest of America watches American Idol.

[barney]

We have 200000 troops in Iraq. if we were going around shooting at everything and each soldier fired one bullet a day, in 9 days all the population would be dead.

Stupid isnt it? Some people just spam opinions based on total fantasy.

[wilberhum]

You may be right. Don't think I'm a gung-ho supporter of this war, I just care about our military and the sacrifice they are making while the rest of America watches American Idol.

Never thought for one second that you were a "Gung-Ho" supporter. Me neither. There are few that are. It is a horrible thing and I don't have answers.

[Keltoi]

We have 200000 troops in Iraq. if we were going around shooting at everything and each soldier fired one bullet a day, in 9 days all the population would be dead.

Stupid isnt it? Some people just spam opinions based on total fantasy.

The R.O.E. has changed slightly in the past few months, but before that a soldier had to go through a fairly long check list before firing his weapon. Of course if he or she is fired upon they can return fire, but even that has been taken away from time to time. I remember when the U.S. military was engaging Al-Sadr's militia in Sadr-City a couple of years ago, and a buddy of mine that was there wrote back to his brother that they were told to retreat if fired upon in fear of creating a bloodbath situation.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Heh, you think anyone with an agenda(whatever kind it is) would be that stupid? Hmm? Do you think someone with a goal would make it so obvious to the public eye? Dont ad companies decieve the population in makin somethin look good when its really bad? Does it not affect human lives when people lie in ads? This is bigger than just "ad companies", so what makes u think people are willing to be truthful in a situation like this when they hurt their own people internally?

[Keltoi]

Heh, u think anyone with an angenda would be that stupid? Hmm? Do you think someone with a goal would make it so obvious to the public eye? Dont ad companies decieve the population in makin somethin look good when its really bad? Does it not affect human lives when peope lie in ads? This is bigger than just "ad companies", so what makes u think people are willing to be truthful in a situation like this when they hurt their own people internally?

I'm afraid I don't understand what you are referring to.

[barney]

In 2003 we had to Identify a weapon in hand. a RPG on the floor wasnt enough, that would require arrest.

I know a lot of hope has gone in Iraq, but i remember the joy of the people after Saddams fall. The "Muslim Brothers" of these people have smashed their country and their lives.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Oh excuse me, I was referring to Barneys post above mine.
ANYWHO, I got class tomorrow. I'm off. Chill out everyone :)

Peace

[wilberhum]

u think anyone with an angenda would be that stupid?

Every one has an agenda, what are you talking about?

[barney]

ANYWHO, I got class tomorrow. I'm off.

Ahh! Clarity dawns!:D

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Ahh im afraid i didnt get that :X
Anyway before i get a backlash of off topic posts.
Take care yall.

Peace

[snakelegs]

barney,
good research, but i already know that most of the terrorist groups in the world are muslim.
but my point was that you rarely find the word "terrorist" or "terrorism" in the media when describing terrorist acts done by non-muslim organizations.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Every one has an agenda, what are you talking about?

I was giving examples to his post.

[barney]

barney,
good research, but i already know that most of the terrorist groups in the world are muslim.
but my point was that you rarely find the word "terrorist" or "terrorism" in the media when describing terrorist acts done by non-muslim organizations.

Ahh I wouldnt say so over here. tamil tigers...Terrorist. IRA Terrorist..Eta hmm Seperatist...clearly terrorists though....KLA..Rebels.(muslims)

The trouble is they (thankfully) dont do enough to get themselves spoken about. where as the Muslim ones go for the big publicity killings.

I agree a teeny bit with you, but feel its marginal. the KLA shouted allah akbar as loud as Al Quada. we still bombed the snot out of their christian foes.

Interestingly...this is all forgotten. Makes me think i totally wasted my time in Kosovo.

[Redeemed]

What are the Christians doing to stop the Lord's Resistance Army from over shadowing Christianity? Never heard of them? Maybe you need to ask why you've never heard of them. Then you need to look at what they are doing in the name of Christianity. Clean your own backyard first before asking any of us why we can't control individuals that choose to behave outside the teachings of Islam. By the way they ARE terrorists, but where is the outrage? Where is the crying for the innocents in Uganda. Oh right...no oil, no benefit, no use. Let them die, they're insignificant. Ahhhh, how proudly they serve Christianity.

And you could have at least used an original quote. Not all Muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are Muslim (which is the correct phrase). That one comment alone shows your own double standard, but when combined with the rest of your statement the ignorance is staggering. Remember this quote: "better for them to THINK you're a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

It never fails to amaze me. As Aku says, no need to say more. :)

Peace,
Hana

First of all, I did not call you a fool. It is written that if you say to your brother "thou fool" you are in danger of hell fire. Second of them all, that quote is not correct. That is why I didn't use it. It is not true that all terroist are Muslims. Terrorist come in all different religions and races even nonimal Christians. However, I know of no true Christian that is a terrorist. Do you know the same in your case? And what in the world is the Lord's resistance Army? I have no idea what you talking about.

[north_malaysian]

tamil tigers...Terrorist.

Tamil Tigers are separatist terrorists who want an independent country called Tamil Eelam.

[Trumble]

Yes of course the intentions of IRA and ETA are so 'noble' when they bomb people.

Your own words demonstrate the double standards, I dont have to say more :)

ETA have frequently been referred to as both separatists (the 'what') and terrorists (the 'how') both long before 9/11 and after it. The Provos were always called terrorists (the 'how') and Republicans (the 'what') depending on context. There is significant press coverage regarding the Tamil 'Liberation Tigers' in Sri Lanka - they are also called both, which usually depending on what actions they have performed, as they have acted both as a 'terrorist' and 'military' force. And talking of both, how many 'muslim' terrorist groups also happen to be called 'rebels', 'insurgents', 'militants', etc, etc, depending on context?

There is no 'double standard'. Neither is there any 'propaganda' in calling terrorists terrorists, whatever religious authority or secular 'cause' they may claim.

[barney]

Tamil Tigers are separatist terrorists who want an independent country called Tamil Eelam.

Agreed!

[wilberhum]

It is not true that all terroist are Muslims.

Every one knows that. There are just those that claim other people say that.

I know of no true Christian that is a terrorist.

That would be as true as "I know of no true Muslim that is a terrorist".

[Redeemed]

Every one knows that. There are just those that claim other people say that.

That would be as true as "I know of no true Muslim that is a terrorist".

You are right, there is no proof, but I know it in my heart by faith, because I know the Lord. Can you at least honestly say that you known your heart that no true Muslim is a terrorist before Allah?

[wilberhum]

before Allah

Well since I don't believe in him, it is not a logical question.

[akulion]

No true christian can be a terrorist? when did that happend?

I think you havent read about HITLER THE DEVOUT CHRISTIAN who was supported by the CHURCH and the POPE fully

with evidence and irrefutable facts:
http://www.islamicboard.com/general-...christian.html

Notice the only responses people had were "their opinions" lol

[wilberhum]

No true christian can be a terrorist? when did that happend?

I think you havent read about HITLER THE DEVOUT CHRISTIAN who was supported by the CHURCH and the POPE fully

with evidence and irrefutable facts:
http://www.islamicboard.com/general-...christian.html

Notice the only responses people had were "their opinions" lol

Oh that junk is so old. Did you just here about that distortion? Devout Christian? OBL is much more of a devout Muslim. At least Hitler never claimed to be a good Catholic.

[akulion]

oh so its junk because no one could refute it lol

believe me i debated this on over 10 forums both christian and muslim alike

and not one person could disprove that evidence...all they said was "oh but we know he wasnt"

well quite frankly belief is about what you have in your mind and heart...and Hitler truly believed he was doing Gods work...and following the bible and THAT is what makes him devout...not to mention the 'holy father pope' - the 'irrefutable hand of god on earth' and the holy church, the house of god etc etc, also FULLY supported him ;)

[*Hana*]

You are right, there is no proof, but I know it in my heart by faith, because I know the Lord. Can you at least honestly say that you known your heart that no true Muslim is a terrorist before Allah?

Please tell me you are not that incredibly ignorant to call yourself a Christian and make such a racist comment.

How do you know NO professing Christian is a terrorist. How dare you label all Muslims as terrorists. You're a complete ignoramus!

I sincerely hope you don't claim to represent Christianity with so much hate and ignorance in your heart. It's a disgrace to your chosen faith.

Listen well, Alapiana: I AM A MUSLIM, which I have already said before Allah, swt, and I have yet to kill one single, solitary human being. Can all your christian brothers in Iraq say the same. Can your Christian brothers in Uganda make that claim, how about Hitler, your christian brother that slaughtered millions, Jim Jones? David Koresh? The KKK?

Please get educated before you even attempt to dialogue with others about faith. You don't understand your faith don't even try to understand mine.

[barney]

Christians can be terrorists! Christians beleive in the whole of the Bible, and the Bible has lots of verses that can be interpreted in a identical way to the "Sword" surahs and The Ahadiths concerned with Jihad.

I would consider the Crusades a terrorist action as much as 9/11, 7/7 or the Current Sudanese butchery. (although obviously on a smaller scale than Sudan). Hitler was a terrorist. An Ideological terrorist. Nationalism, Ideology, Religion and Political terrorism are possible, existed and exist.

But back to the point. ive mentioned it before, but scale is the reason for the "all terrorists are muslim" myth. Because The Save the Whale guys have killed one guy in 10 years, theyre not counted when compared to the systematic daily butchery of today.

[*Hana*]

Oh that junk is so old. Did you just here about that distortion? Devout Christian? OBL is much more of a devout Muslim. At least Hitler never claimed to be a good Catholic.

The difference is, we won't deny that OBL is a Muslim.

And yes, Hitler did indeed make that claim. So much so he wanted to be a priest at one time and made a wonderful alter boy. He was absolutely a devout christian....deny it all you want, the facts stand true.

Hana

[akulion]

well the problem with many Christians is they act Holier than Thou

as if they know better....but I really question the logic of people who worship a man really

[Keltoi]

The difference is, we won't deny that OBL is a Muslim.

And yes, Hitler did indeed make that claim. So much so he wanted to be a priest at one time and made a wonderful alter boy. He was absolutely a devout christian....deny it all you want, the facts stand true.

Hana

All of these are quotes from Adolf Hitler:


Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:


National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things

10th October, 1941, midday:


Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure

14th October, 1941, midday:


The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State

[barney]

So in this thread we have established:

Not all terrorists are muslims? yup? Nope?
Most terrorists are muslims based on data? Yup? Nope?
Christians can be terrorists Yup? Nope?
Agnostics can be terrorists Yup? Nope?
Anyone who is Truely following their religion is not?
The invoking of religion to commit terrorism is wrong?
The Leader of a state can be a terrorist?

[barney]

All of these are quotes from Adolf Hitler:


Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:


National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things

10th October, 1941, midday:


Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure

14th October, 1941, midday:


The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State

So at least he wasnt killing Jews in the name of god....or..ummm...is that permissable!:D :D :D :D

[Redeemed]

Please tell me you are not that incredibly ignorant to call yourself a Christian and make such a racist comment.

How do you know NO professing Christian is a terrorist. How dare you label all Muslims as terrorists. You're a complete ignoramus!

I sincerely hope you don't claim to represent Christianity with so much hate and ignorance in your heart. It's a disgrace to your chosen faith.

Listen well, Alapiana: I AM A MUSLIM, which I have already said before Allah, swt, and I have yet to kill one single, solitary human being. Can all your christian brothers in Iraq say the same. Can your Christian brothers in Uganda make that claim, how about Hitler, your christian brother that slaughtered millions, Jim Jones? David Koresh? The KKK?

Please get educated before you even attempt to dialogue with others about faith. You don't understand your faith don't even try to understand mine.

I think you need to reread what I said. It is a matter of simple comprehension. I never said all Muslims are terrorist, and Hitler and the KKK were what Jesus calls wolves in sheep’s clothing. In other words, they just called themselves Christians, but they did not know the Lord. As far as my being full of hate, let God judge between us. I never called you a fool, hateful person or an ignoramus. It is written, "You shall give account for very idle word spoken before God"

[akulion]

All of these are quotes from Adolf Hitler:


Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:


National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things

10th October, 1941, midday:


Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure

14th October, 1941, midday:


The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State

The funny part is those arent his real speeches.
there is no references for those and you wont be able to find any from any credible sources EXCEPT Christian apologetic websites trying DESPERATELY to prove he wasnt one lol

Learn from the facts my friend ;)

Hitler advocated a "Positive Christianity", a belief system purged from what he objected to in traditional Christianity, and reinvented Jesus as a fighter against the Jews

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler#...igious_beliefs

The church wants this desperately denied because they have no excise for supporting hitler do they?

why do you think the pope (the last one) OFFICIALLy apologized to the jews?
lol

[Woodrow]

Before I begin deleting posts, I just want to remind everyone. It is expected to disagree on issues and some of us may even become angry over a topic.

But, under no circumstances is it permissible to attack or bash another member with name calling, etc.

Please have the integrity to be able to agree to disagree with respect and honor.

Any name calling will result in deletion of posts with no further explanation.

[barney]

So he took a idea, which mostly promoted love and brotherhood amongst men,(wheres the women in this?) and turned it into a doctrine of persecution and hate.

Not the first guy to do that, and as we see today from several of our freinds in black robes and RDX belts, not the last.

[Keltoi]

The funny part is those arent his real speeches.
there is no references for those and you wont be able to find any from any credible sources EXCEPT Christian apologetic websites trying DESPERATELY to prove he wasnt one lol

Learn from the facts my friend ;)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler#...igious_beliefs

The church wants this desperately denied because they have no excise for supporting hitler do they?

why do you think the pope (the last one) OFFICIALLy apologized to the jews?
lol

Those quotes weren't from speeches, they are from a book titled Hitler's Secret Conversations that was published in 1953, reissued as Hitler's Table Talk Here is a Time Magazine article about the book and how these quotes were recorded.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...823031,00.html

[*Hana*]

I think you need to reread what I said. It is a matter of simple comprehension. I never said all Muslims are terrorist, and Hitler and the KKK were what Jesus calls wolves in sheep’s clothing. In other words, they just called themselves Christians, but they did not know the Lord. As far as my being full of hate, let God judge between us. I never called you a fool, hateful person or an ignoramus. It is written, "You shall give account for very idle word spoken before God"

I read exactly what you said and what you did was say clearly that it could not be honestly said that true Muslims were not terrorists! Yes, I did call you an ignoramus because the definition is one that doesn't know.

God will judge you, be sure of that. I formed my opinions by the words you typed for everyone to see. And I will not sit back an allow you to refer to Muslims as terrorists while you dismiss the deplorable behavior of some Christians by saying "oh they're not really christians", but those muslims, yeah, they're really muslims. It's a double standard that comes from ignorance and hate.

I for one will not tolerate my brothers and sisters being slandered by an uneducated, non muslim who claims to know my faith better than I do. And if some Mod wants to delete posts that speak the truth, he can fill his boots and justify it in the end. I can assure you, I will always defend my brothers and sisters from slander.

May Allah, swt, guide you to truth. Ameen

Hana

[FatimaAsSideqah]

I read exactly what you said and what you did was say clearly that it could not be honestly said that true Muslims were not terrorists! Yes, I did call you an ignoramus because the definition is one that doesn't know.

God will judge you, be sure of that. I formed my opinions by the words you typed for everyone to see. And I will not sit back an allow you to refer to Muslims as terrorists while you dismiss the deplorable behavior of some Christians by saying "oh they're not really christians", but those muslims, yeah, they're really muslims. It's a double standard that comes from ignorance and hate.

I for one will not tolerate my brothers and sisters being slandered by an uneducated, non muslim who claims to know my faith better than I do. And if some Mod wants to delete posts that speak the truth, he can fill his boots and justify it in the end. I can assure you, I will always defend my brothers and sisters from slander.

May Allah, swt, guide you to truth. Ameen

Hana

:sl:
Second on that! May Allah Ta'ala protect you from the demon of males and females!

Ameen!

:w:

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

AMEEN! :thumbs_up

[Redeemed]

Before I begin deleting posts, I just want to remind everyone. It is expected to disagree on issues and some of us may even become angry over a topic.

But, under no circumstances is it permissible to attack or bash another member with name calling, etc.

Please have the integrity to be able to agree to disagree with respect and honor.

Any name calling will result in deletion of posts with no further explanation.

I agree

[NoName55]

I read exactly what you said and what you did was say clearly that it could not be honestly said that true Muslims were not terrorists! Yes, I did call you an ignoramus because the definition is one that doesn't know.

God will judge you, be sure of that. I formed my opinions by the words you typed for everyone to see. And I will not sit back an allow you to refer to Muslims as terrorists while you dismiss the deplorable behavior of some Christians by saying "oh they're not really christians", but those muslims, yeah, they're really muslims. It's a double standard that comes from ignorance and hate.

I for one will not tolerate my brothers and sisters being slandered by an uneducated, non muslim who claims to know my faith better than I do. And if some Mod wants to delete posts that speak the truth, he can fill his boots and justify it in the end. I can assure you, I will always defend my brothers and sisters from slander.

May Allah, swt, guide you to truth. Ameen

Hana

:sl:
:thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up

:w:

[Redeemed]

Please tell me you are not that incredibly ignorant to call yourself a Christian and make such a racist comment.

How do you know NO professing Christian is a terrorist. How dare you label all Muslims as terrorists. You're a complete ignoramus!

I sincerely hope you don't claim to represent Christianity with so much hate and ignorance in your heart. It's a disgrace to your chosen faith.

Listen well, Alapiana: I AM A MUSLIM, which I have already said before Allah, swt, and I have yet to kill one single, solitary human being. Can all your christian brothers in Iraq say the same. Can your Christian brothers in Uganda make that claim, how about Hitler, your christian brother that slaughtered millions, Jim Jones? David Koresh? The KKK?

Please get educated before you even attempt to dialogue with others about faith. You don't understand your faith don't even try to understand mine.

I said, I know that no true Christian is a terrorist. Can you say the same about a true Muslim? That is all. That is a fair question, because you know the Islam faith better than me. You are reading into my question stuff that isn't there or wasn't my intention. You could simply answer yes or no; instead, you are looking for trouble and thinking the worst.
If a Christian is walking in the light in fellowship with God, he would not be a terrorist. We are not talking about nominal Christians such as Hitler and his bunch, which is not of the present time. Do you understand now what I was trying to ask? I never got an answer from you only attacks on my character.
If you continue to attack me, I will not respond to you next time. Get a second opinion of the questions I am asking before you fly off the handle as you have obviously done.

[Redeemed]

Let me put it another way, the Christians such as Hitler and the KKK and all such like that commited terrorist acts are not true Christians to me. Are the Muslims that bombed the WTC true Muslims to you? In other words, do you believe they were doing Allah's biding? These are not attacks on Muslims or your brothers and sisters; they are simply fair questions.

[*Hana*]

I said, I know that no true Christian is a terrorist. Can you say the same about a true Muslim? That is all. That is a fair question, because you know the Islam faith better than me. You are reading into my question stuff that isn't there or wasn't my intention. You could simply answer yes or no; instead, you are looking for trouble and thinking the worst.
If a Christian is walking in the light in fellowship with God, he would not be a terrorist. We are not talking about nominal Christians such as Hitler and his bunch, which is not of the present time. Do you understand now what I was trying to ask? I never got an answer from you only attacks on my character.
If you continue to attack me, I will not respond to you next time. Get a second opinion of the questions I am asking before you fly off the handle as you have obviously done.

Your first comment:

Not all Muslims are terrorist, but it seems like most terrorist are Muslims these days. I know most Muslims do not identify with these terroist, but what are they doing to stop these few from over shadowing Islam in the eyes of the world?

I responded and asked what you were doing to prevent Christian terrorists from continuing what they are doing. I do recall telling you specifically about the Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda and suggested you look them up for yourself. As a Muslim it is not the fault of the entire ummah that some Muslims fall outside the teachings of Islam. Just as it is not the fault of every Christian that the above terrorist group falls outside the true teachings of Christianity. The fact you asked what WE are doing to stop it is totally unfair especially considering it is the media and American/British government that focus on the few rather than the other 1.2 billion Muslims that try to live according to the true teachings of Islam. The question you need to ask is WHY the world is doing nothing to stop the slaughter of the citizens of Uganda by Christian Terrorists.

It's not a matter of attacking you at all. And, quite frankly, it doesn't effect me one way or another if you don't respond to me. I didn't necessarily attack your character, but did in fact question your lack of knowledge which is obvious by your own words. To even ask the question about what makes a true Muslim shows your lack of understanding and knowledge. You see, in Islam, if someone makes the proclamation of faith, they are a Muslim. Whether they are good, bad or indifferent is between them and Allah, swt. We are not in a position to judge. Most of us know what is outside the true teachings of Islam and would avoid that and avoid those that do it, but it doesn't mean I am a better Muslim. I don't know their heart. I don't know their intention. Only Allah, swt, knows that and judgment is for Him alone.

I never look for trouble. :) But, sometimes it falls in my lap and I will respond to inaccurate statements made about my faith. I don't have to look for 2nd opinions when I have the original words you wrote from the beginning of the thread. If you feel the need to back-track and rephrase something that came across differently than you intended, then you should do that. I fully understand the written word is often misunderstood, but the way it is written can't be taken any other way. And I will continue to "fly off the handle" and be very quick to respond when my faith and the sincerity my brothers and sisters is questioned. :)

Peace,
Hana

[*Hana*]

Let me put it another way, the Christians such as Hitler and the KKK and all such like that commited terrorist acts are not true Christians to me. Are the Muslims that bombed the WTC true Muslims to you? In other words, do you believe they were doing Allah's biding? These are not attacks on Muslims or your brothers and sisters; they are simply fair questions.

You see alapiana1, therein lies the difference. We fully accept true Muslims will not necessarily follow the true teachings of Islam 100% of the time, but it doesn't make them non-Muslim. They believe Allah, swt, is only one God and the only one worthy of worship and Muhammed is the messenger of Allah. That is a Muslim. Is blowing up innocent civilians taught in Islam, no. If someone does that and they are Muslim, then they are a Muslim behaving outside the true teachings of Islam.

The Lord's Resistance Army, Hitler, the KKK, etc., all believe they are following Christ, they all accept Jesus as their saviour, they ARE Christian. By the simple definition of "Christian" (one who follows Christ), they are every bit a Christian as you are. Are they outside the true teachings of Christian doctrine? Perhaps. But, they believe they are not. Would you associate with them? Probably not. But, that doesn't make them non-Christian.

Hana

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^:thumbs_up. My God sis, couldnt have said it better myself.

[Redeemed]

You see alapiana1, therein lies the difference. We fully accept true Muslims will not necessarily follow the true teachings of Islam 100% of the time, but it doesn't make them non-Muslim. They believe Allah, swt, is only one God and the only one worthy of worship and Muhammed is the messenger of Allah. That is a Muslim. Is blowing up innocent civilians taught in Islam, no. If someone does that and they are Muslim, then they are a Muslim behaving outside the true teachings of Islam.

The Lord's Resistance Army, Hitler, the KKK, etc., all believe they are following Christ, they all accept Jesus as their saviour, they ARE Christian. By the simple definition of "Christian" (one who follows Christ), they are every bit a Christian as you are. Are they outside the true teachings of Christian doctrine? Perhaps. But, they believe they are not. Would you associate with them? Probably not. But, that doesn't make them non-Christian.

Hana

I see your point

[Redeemed]

I read exactly what you said and what you did was say clearly that it could not be honestly said that true Muslims were not terrorists! Yes, I did call you an ignoramus because the definition is one that doesn't know.

God will judge you, be sure of that. I formed my opinions by the words you typed for everyone to see. And I will not sit back an allow you to refer to Muslims as terrorists while you dismiss the deplorable behavior of some Christians by saying "oh they're not really christians", but those muslims, yeah, they're really muslims. It's a double standard that comes from ignorance and hate.

I for one will not tolerate my brothers and sisters being slandered by an uneducated, non muslim who claims to know my faith better than I do. And if some Mod wants to delete posts that speak the truth, he can fill his boots and justify it in the end. I can assure you, I will always defend my brothers and sisters from slander.

May Allah, swt, guide you to truth. Ameen

Hana

We need to clearify this. You said, "I read exactly what you said and what you did was say clearly that it could not be honestly said that true Muslims were not terrorists! Yes, I did call you an ignoramus because the definition is one that doesn't know." Where did I clearly say this? Show me in my words not yours.

[*Hana*]

We need to clearify this. You said, "I read exactly what you said and what you did was say clearly that it could not be honestly said that true Muslims were not terrorists! Yes, I did call you an ignoramus because the definition is one that doesn't know." Where did I clearly say this? Show me in my words not yours.

Uffff, how many times do you need to see it in print, alapiana1?? I was not the only one that took it that way. For the last time, it is here:

Not all Muslims are terrorist, but it seems like most terrorist are Muslims these days. I know most Muslims do not identify with these terroist, but what are they doing to stop these few from over shadowing Islam in the eyes of the world? and

You are right, there is no proof, but I know it in my heart by faith, because I know the Lord. Can you at least honestly say that you known your heart that no true Muslim is a terrorist before Allah?

If how this sounds is not what you meant...fine, just drop it and move on. If I over-reacted, I apologize. ok?

Back to topic??

Peace,
Hana

[NoName55]

Originally Posted by alapiana1

I said, I know that no true Christian is a terrorist. Can you say the same about a true Muslim? That is all. That is a fair question, because you know the Islam faith better than me. You are reading into my question stuff that isn't there or wasn't my intention. You could simply answer yes or no; instead, you are looking for trouble and thinking the worst.
If a Christian is walking in the light in fellowship with God, he would not be a terrorist. We are not talking about nominal Christians such as Hitler and his bunch, which is not of the present time. Do you understand now what I was trying to ask? I never got an answer from you only attacks on my character.
If you continue to attack me, I will not respond to you next time. Get a second opinion of the questions I am asking before you fly off the handle as you have obviously done.

Your first comment:

Not all Muslims are terrorist, but it seems like most terrorist are Muslims these days. I know most Muslims do not identify with these terroist, but what are they doing to stop these few from over shadowing Islam in the eyes of the world?

I responded and asked what you were doing to prevent Christian terrorists from continuing what they are doing. I do recall telling you specifically about the Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda and suggested you look them up for yourself. As a Muslim it is not the fault of the entire ummah that some Muslims fall outside the teachings of Islam. Just as it is not the fault of every Christian that the above terrorist group falls outside the true teachings of Christianity. The fact you asked what WE are doing to stop it is totally unfair especially considering it is the media and American/British government that focus on the few rather than the other 1.2 billion Muslims that try to live according to the true teachings of Islam. The question you need to ask is WHY the world is doing nothing to stop the slaughter of the citizens of Uganda by Christian Terrorists.

It's not a matter of attacking you at all. And, quite frankly, it doesn't effect me one way or another if you don't respond to me. I didn't necessarily attack your character, but did in fact question your lack of knowledge which is obvious by your own words. To even ask the question about what makes a true Muslim shows your lack of understanding and knowledge. You see, in Islam, if someone makes the proclamation of faith, they are a Muslim. Whether they are good, bad or indifferent is between them and Allah, swt. We are not in a position to judge. Most of us know what is outside the true teachings of Islam and would avoid that and avoid those that do it, but it doesn't mean I am a better Muslim. I don't know their heart. I don't know their intention. Only Allah, swt, knows that and judgment is for Him alone.

I never look for trouble. :) But, sometimes it falls in my lap and I will respond to inaccurate statements made about my faith. I don't have to look for 2nd opinions when I have the original words you wrote from the beginning of the thread. If you feel the need to back-track and rephrase something that came across differently than you intended, then you should do that. I fully understand the written word is often misunderstood, but the way it is written can't be taken any other way. And I will continue to "fly off the handle" and be very quick to respond when my faith and the sincerity my brothers and sisters is questioned. :)

Peace,
Hana

:sl:

JazakAllah Khair
:w:

[NoName55]

Originally Posted by alapiana1

We need to clearify this. You said, "I read exactly what you said and what you did was say clearly that it could not be honestly said that true Muslims were not terrorists! Yes, I did call you an ignoramus because the definition is one that doesn't know." Where did I clearly say this? Show me in my words not yours.

Uffff, how many times do you need to see it in print, alapiana1?? I was not the only one that took it that way. For the last time, it is here:

Not all Muslims are terrorist, but it seems like most terrorist are Muslims these days. I know most Muslims do not identify with these terroist, but what are they doing to stop these few from over shadowing Islam in the eyes of the world? and

You are right, there is no proof, but I know it in my heart by faith, because I know the Lord. Can you at least honestly say that you known your heart that no true Muslim is a terrorist before Allah?

If how this sounds is not what you meant...fine, just drop it and move on. If I over-reacted, I apologize. ok?

Back to topic??

Peace,
Hana ___________

:sl:
:thumbs_uphang in there sister.

like I said before, let him have the last post every time otherwise he will do every thing possible to drive you up the wall.
including lying repititions. if all all else fails he'll go into sulk/pout mode and speak in parables

:w:

[Woodrow]

This thread has become personal arguments. I doubt if it can return to the original topic so there is no need in prolonging it.


:threadclo