Sunaan Abu Dawud Book 11, Number 2135

[lavikor201]

Can someone please give me a reliable translation of Sunaan Abu Dawud 11.2135.

Thank you. :)

[ManchesterFolk]

Can someone please give me a reliable translation of Sunaan Abu Dawud11.2135.

Thank you. :)

Book 11, Number 2135:
Narrated Qays ibn Sa'd:

I went to al-Hirah and saw them (the people) prostrating themselves before a satrap of theirs, so I said: The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) has most right to have prostration made before him. When I came to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him), I said: I went to al-Hirah and saw them prostrating themselves before a satrap of theirs, but you have most right, Apostle of Allah, to have (people) prostrating themselves before you. He said: Tell me , if you were to pass my grave, would you prostrate yourself before it? I said: No. He then said: Do not do so. If I were to command anyone to make prostration before another I would command women to prostrate themselves before their husbands, because of the special right over them given to husbands by Allah. (SOURCE)

And before you post again. Yes, this really says that:
"instead of the governors of the provinces of ancient Median and Persian, Mohammad has most right to be prostrated before."

It also really says:
"If I were to command anyone to make prostration before another I would command women to prostrate themselves before their husbands, because of the special right over them given to husbands by Allah."

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


Did you know that people prostrated towards Prophet Yusuf [Joseph]? Did you know that the angels prostrated towards Prophet Adam?


However, when they did - it was due to the obedience of Allaah. It wasn't because they were being worshipped. And Allaah's final Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him) was the greatest man to ever live, yet he forbade people bowing to him. He even forbade it so that shows that he never wanted to be bowed to since many people have raised others to the level of God, i.e. the christians who raised Jesus son of Mary as a deity along with Allaah. We seek refuge in Allaah from falling into this evil.


And in regard to the husband/wife hadith. What's so shocking about it? The man has many duties which he does in order to support his wife; its his duty to feed her, clothe her, home her. She's almost dependant upon him to live her life. And yet still - she doesn't have to bow down to him does she? Since the Messenger of Allaah said IF i were to..



The Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) said: "The best among you is the one who is best to his wife" (Related by Ibn Hibban) in another version it is the one who is most kind to his wife.


Allah Most High says: Live with them on a footing of kindness and equity (4:19) and the advice of the Prophet: Consult with women. Indeed, you have some rights over your women and they have some rights over you. It is their right on you that you provide for their food and clothing generously, and your right on them is that they do not let anyone whom you dislike in the house, walking upon your floor. (Related by Ibn Majah and Tirmidhi who declared it Hasan Saheeh)



The Prophet saws also said: "If any man shows patience with his wife's bad temper, Allah will give him a reward similar to the reward of Ayyub (Job) for his patience, and if any woman shows patience with her husband's bad temper, Allah will give her a reward similar to the reward of Asiyah daughter of Muzahim, the wife of Pharoah (Cf. Qur'an 66:11)."



It is reported that a man came to 'Umar ibn Al-Khattab [a companion and successor of the Messenger of Allaah] to complain about his wife's ill-temper. While he was waiting for 'Umar to come out of his house, he heard 'Umar's wife scolding him and 'Umar quietly listening to her, and not answering her back. The man turned around and started walking away, muttering to himself: "If that is the case with 'Umar, the leader of the believers, who is famous for his uprighteness and toughness, then what about poor me?!" At that moment, 'Umar came out of his house and saw the man walking away. He called him and said, "What is it you want of me, O man?" The man replied: "O leader of the believers, I came to complain to you about my wife's bad-temper and how she nags me. Then I heard your wife doing the same to you, so I turned around, muttering to myself, 'If that is the situation of the leader of the believers, then what about me?'" 'Umar replied, "O my brother, I bear with her because of her rights over me. She cooks my food, bakes my bread, washes my clothes, breast-feeds my child...and yet none of these are her duty;* and then she is a comfort to my heart and keeps me away from forbidden deeds. Consequently, I bear with her." The man said, "It is the same with me, O leader of the believers." 'Umar said: "Then, O my brother, be patient with her, indeed this life is short. (Adh-Dhahabi, Al-Kabâ'ir 194)The last hadith about 'Umar is a beautiful example of the lofty status that Islam has given women. The Khalifa himself used to listen patiently while his wife scolded him and he instructed his followers to likewise be patient and grateful for all the favours their wives gave them. Dr. M. Moinuddin Siddiqui, who has translated Al-Kabâ'ir into english, includes the following footnote in the place I have marked above with an asterisk [*]:

According to the Shari'ah, a Muslim wife has no obligation to do all this; rather, it is the husband's obligation to take care of it [either himself or] by hiring a servant (or even, in the case of breast-feeding, a wet-nurse). Therefore, if a woman does this, it is out of good-will and compliance on her part, not because it is obligatory on her, and consequently it is a cause for appreciation and helpfulness on the part of her husband. (Translator)

http://www.islamicboard.com/428746-post12.html

[Philosopher]

Excellent post, Fi_Sabilillah :)

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[siFilam]

:salamext:

^yeah, Mashallah. I was hoping you would answer this.

All Praise be to Allah for this beautiful religion, for guiding us to the truth and for not placing a veil over our heart.

wasalam
-SI-

[ManchesterFolk]

Did you know that people prostrated towards Prophet Yusuf [Joseph]? Did you know that the angels prostrated towards Prophet Adam?

Where? You have me curious.

And in regard to the husband/wife hadith. What's so shocking about it? The man has many duties which he does in order to support his wife; its his duty to feed her, clothe her, home her. She's almost dependant upon him to live her life. And yet still - she doesn't have to bow down to him does she? Since the Messenger of Allaah said IF i were to..

I'm still a bit confused, the Hadith then assumes that women are incapable of supporting themselves?

[- Qatada -]

Where? You have me curious.

Then when they entered the presence of Joseph, he provided a home for his parents with himself, and said: "Enter ye Egypt (all) in safety if it please Allah."

And he raised his parents high on the throne (of dignity), and they fell down in prostration, (all) before him. He said: "O my father! this is the fulfilment of my vision of old! Allah hath made it come true! He was indeed good to me when He took me out of prison and brought you (all here) out of the desert, (even) after Satan had sown enmity between me and my brothers. Verily my Lord understandeth best the mysteries of all that He planneth to do, for verily He is full of knowledge and wisdom.

[Qur'an Surah Yusuf 12: 99-100]

This is actually why the hadith you mentioned above was explained by the Messenger of Allaah:

In the laws of these and previous Prophets, it was allowed for the people to prostrate before the men of authority, when they met them. This practice was allowed in the law of Adam until the law of `Isa [Jesus son of Mary], peace be upon them, but was later prohibited in our law. Islam made prostration exclusively for Allah Alone, the Exalted and Most Honored. The implication of this statement was collected from Qatadah and other scholars. When Mu`adh bin Jabal visited the Sham [Greater Syria] area, he found them prostrating before their priests. When he returned (to Al-Madinah), he prostrated before the Messenger of Allah , who asked him,

«مَا هَذَا يَا مُعَاذُ؟»


(What is this, O, Mu`adh) Mu`adh said, "I saw that they prostrate before their priests. However, you, O Messenger of Allah, deserve more to be prostrated before.'' The Messenger said,


«لَوْ كُنْتُ آمِرًا أَحَدًا أَنْ يَسْجُدَ لِأَحَدٍ، لَأَمَرْتُ الْمَرْأَةَ أَنْ تَسْجُدَ لِزَوْجِهَا لِعِظَمِ حَقِّهِ عَلَيْهَا»


(If I were to order anyone to prostrate before anyone else (among the creation), I would have ordered the wife to prostrate before her husband because of the enormity of his right on her.) Therefore, this practice was allowed in previous laws, as we stated. This is why they (Ya`qub and his wife and eleven sons) prostrated before Yusuf.

[SOURCE]



That was the vision of Prophet Yusuf when he was a child as its been explained at the beginning of the surah:

Behold! Joseph said to his father: "O my father! I did see eleven stars and the sun and the moon: I saw them prostrate themselves to me!"

Said (the father): "My (dear) little son! relate not thy vision to thy brothers, lest they concoct a plot against thee: for Satan is to man an avowed enemy!

"Thus will thy Lord choose thee and teach thee the interpretation of stories (and events) and perfect His favour to thee and to the posterity of Jacob - even as He perfected it to thy fathers Abraham and Isaac aforetime! for Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom."

Verily in Joseph and his brethren are signs (or symbols) for seekers (after Truth).


[Qur'an Surah Yusuf - 12: 4-7]

I'm still a bit confused, the Hadith then assumes that women are incapable of supporting themselves?

No, women have the right to work also. However it is an obligation upon the man whereas it isn't an obligation upon the wife to support the husband financially.

[ManchesterFolk]

In the laws of these and previous Prophets, it was allowed for the people to prostrate before the men of authority, when they met them. This practice was allowed in the law of Adam until the law of `Isa, peace be upon them, but was later prohibited in our law. Islam made prostration exclusively for Allah Alone, the Exalted and Most Honored. The implication of this statement was collected from Qatadah and other scholars. When Mu`adh bin Jabal visited the Sham area, he found them prostrating before their priests. When he returned (to Al-Madinah), he prostrated before the Messenger of Allah , who asked him,

Was prostration both used to worship God and greet men of authority then in this time period?

That was the vision of Prophet Yusuf when he was a child as its been explained at the beginning of the surah:

Interesting. If these great prophets did this, why abolish it?

No, women have the right to work also. However it is an obligation upon the man whereas it isn't an obligation upon the wife to support the husband financially.

So because of this, Mohammad said that if one were to prostate it should be a women to her husband? Seems fine, to me, since during those times there were very different. I hope however, this belief isn't carried by Muslims today.

[- Qatada -]

Was prostration both used to worship God and greet men of authority then in this time period?

It may have been, i think at that time it was a sign of respect and honor to the king. We know this was a common practise back then.

Interesting. If these great prophets did this, why abolish it?

Because God knows that there were among mankind people who took these pious people as 'intermediaries' or deities along with God [i.e christian saints]. And that is the concept of shirk [associating partners with God] which is the most evil of sins in the sight of Allaah. So to save this muslim nation from falling into the same traps, God forbade the doorway to it.

So because of this, Mohammad said that if one were to prostate it should be a women to her husband? Seems fine, to me, since during those times there were very different. I hope however, this belief isn't carried by Muslims today.

It can't be practised since we are only to bow to Allaah only. :)

[ManchesterFolk]

Because God knows that there were among mankind people who took these pious people as 'intermediaries' or deities along with God [i.e christian saints]. And that is the concept of shirk [associating partners with God] which is the most evil of sins in the sight of Allaah. So to save this muslim nation from falling into the same traps, God forbade the doorway to it.

It can't be practised since we are only to bow to Allaah only.

Why even allow it in the first place then? God is all knowing.

[- Qatada -]

Why even allow it in the first place then? God is all knowing.

If you've read the hadith you'll see the word 'IF' is used, which is showing how much rights they [the husband/wife] have upon each other. :) It's in no way implying that bowing to the husband/wife is allowed since its been explained in the earlier posts - bowing is for Allaah only/alone.

[ManchesterFolk]

If you've read the hadith you'll see the word 'IF' is used, which is showing how much rights they [the husband/wife] have upon each other. :) It's in no way implying that bowing to the husband/wife is allowed since its been explained in the earlier posts - bowing is for Allaah only/alone.

But at that time was it done, or allowed since it was the thing to do back then before Allah then realised that men probably shouldn't do it? Or is Mohammad just using an example to show how men and women have different roles, and it was really never done, but just used as an example for the places they hold?

[- Qatada -]

But at that time was it done, or allowed since it was the thing to do back then before Allah then realised that men probably shouldn't do it? Or is Mohammad just using an example to show how men and women have different roles, and it was really never done, but just used as an example for the places they hold?

It was never done :) Allaah's Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him) only showed the high rights both husband and wife have upon each other.

Think about it, even if a wife works and she's more wealthier than the husband - its still an obligation upon him to support her. However, if she is willing to support the husband with her wealth - then this is a form of good on her behalf and she will be rewarded for it. So its in no way implying that women are lower than men, so please don't think that.



Regards.

[ManchesterFolk]

It was never done :) Allaah's Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him) only showed the high rights both husband and wife have upon each other.

Think about it, even if a wife works and she's more wealthier than the husband - its still an obligation upon him to support her. However, if she is willing to support the husband with her wealth - then this is a form of good on her behalf and she will be rewarded for it. So its in no way implying that women are lower than men, so please don't think that.

Regards.

I'll take your word for it, however, the example he gives by saying "I would command women to prostrate themselves before their husbands" Sure makes them seem lower since prostrating will make you certainly lower then the person your bowing to. :?

[- Qatada -]

I'll take your word for it, however, the example he gives by saying "I would command women to prostrate themselves before their husbands" Sure makes them seem lower since prostrating will make you certainly lower then the person your bowing to. :?

Was Prophet Joseph's father pious? His father was Prophet Israel [Jacob/Ya'qub] - however his father still bowed to him. Didn't he? :)

[ManchesterFolk]

Was Prophet Joseph's father pious? His father was Prophet Israel [Jacob/Ya'qub] - however his father still bowed to him. Didn't he? :)

Then I don't understand why is was lawful for them, and not us anymore. :exhausted Surely God has the sight to see that men would think of it as worship.

[- Qatada -]

Then I don't understand why is was lawful for them, and not us anymore. :exhausted Surely God has the sight to see that men would think of it as worship.

Maybe God knew that Prophet Yusuf wouldn't be worshipped along with God? Since Prophet Jacob was strictly against that.

And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam. [submission to Allaah]"

Were ye witnesses when death appeared before Jacob? Behold, he said to his sons: "What will ye worship after me?" They said: "We shall worship Thy god and the god of thy fathers, of Abraham, Isma'il and Isaac,- the one (True) Allah: To Him we bow (in Islam)."

[Qur'an 2: 132-3]

So it wasn't really a danger for them since God knew that He would send prophets after them and they were strict on following the religion of their father who himself was a prophet. However Muhammad (peace be upon him) is Allaah's final Messenger because Allaah says in the Qur'an:

Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things. [Qur'an 33:40]

And if it isn't forbidden in this nation [ummah] - then people may prostrate to other people, and this may lead to them commiting shirk [associating partners with Allaah in worship] and there would be no prophet telling them that what they're doing is wrong, since Muhammad (peace be upon him) is Allaah's final Messenger. So to stop people from falling into the evil, the doorway is closed and its been forbidden. Full Stop.


And Allaah knows best.



Regards.

[ManchesterFolk]

And if it isn't forbidden in this nation [ummah] - then people may prostrate to other people, and this may lead to them commiting shirk [associating partners with Allaah in worship] and there would be no prophet telling them that what they're doing is wrong, since Muhammad (peace be upon him) is Allaah's final Messenger. So to stop people from falling into the evil, the doorway is closed and its been forbidden. Full Stop.

How would a common thing in those days as this leadsomeone to shirk?

[- Qatada -]

How would a common thing in those days as this leadsomeone to shirk?

Because times change and something which may seem innocent at one time may not always be that innocent at another time. Like the example of Jesus son of Mary being raised to the level of God by the people.


Anyway heres a good link which you might find beneficial, its in regard to who is God and what is worship etc. I hope you benefit from it.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/tawheed/



Regards.

[ManchesterFolk]

Because times change and something which may seem innocent at one time may not always be that innocent at another time. Like the example of Jesus son of Mary being raised to the level of God by the people.

Regards.

If time change then are other things that the Quran says which are outdated can be changed to?

[- Qatada -]

If time change then are other things that the Quran says which are outdated can be changed to?

Allaah's Messenger has conveyed the whole message so no - there doesn't need to be nothing changed.

This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.
[Qur'an 5:3]

Regards.

[ManchesterFolk]

Allaah's Messenger has conveyed the whole message so no - there doesn't need to be nothing changed.

This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.
[Qur'an 5:3]

Regards.

Makes sense.