Pro-Secular Protest attracts 200,000 in Turkey

[Dahir]

Source

More than 200,000 demonstrators have protested against Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Turkey's prime minister, becoming the country's president.

Protesters in Ankara on Saturday called for the government to resign, chanting slogans including, "We don't want an imam as president."




"I'm here to prevent Recep Tayyip Erdogan from becoming president,"Serkan Ozcan, an engineer who travelled nearly 600km from Izmir to Ankara to attend the rally, said.

"Never has someone of that mentality been president and never will be."






Erdogan's party was elected to an overwhelming majority in parliament and can appoint whoever it wants to the presidency.

If he does decide to run, Erdogan's own popularity and his party's firm control over parliament will mean his opponents will have little power to stop him.

Erdogan's party is expected to announce its candidates for the position this month.

'Islamic agenda'

Secularists in the 99 per cent Muslim country fear that if Erdogan, or someone close to him, wins the presidency next month, the government will be able to implement an Islamic agenda without opposition.

The prime minister has pushed Turkey closer to the European Union, but he is also known for his religious principles.

He has stoked secularist concerns in Turkey by speaking out against restrictions on wearing Islamic-style head scarves in government offices and schools and taking steps to bolster religious institutions.

He also tried to criminalise adultery, but came under criticism for the move and backed down under pressure from the EU.

But the country's pro-secular military maintains a strong influence over Turkish politics and in 1997 generals pressured Erdogan's mentor out of the prime minister's office because he was viewed as excessively religious.

Analysts warn that any serious tensions between the government and the military could have a serious effect on the country's economy.

Saturday's rally was organised by Sener Eruygur, president of the Ataturk Thought Association and a former commander of Turkey's paramilitary forces.

President to step down

The demonstration come after Ahmet Necdet Sezer, Turkey's pro-secular president, told military officers in an address on Friday that "for the first time, the pillars of the secular republic are being openly questioned".

Sezer steps down on May 16 and parliament will elect the new president early next month.

"We hope that someone who is loyal to the principles of the republic, not just in words but in essence, is elected president," general Yasar Buyukanit, the chief of the military, said on Thursday, in a statement widely interpreted as a warning to Erdogan not to run.

Erdogan's government has denied it has an Islamic agenda.

Has it come to this in Turkey? Drunk on Ataturk reforms are they still?

Erdogan seems like a god-send for Turkey in these dark moments, and they insist he steps down?

And before reading this article, which renewed my interest in Turkey, I didn't know how anarchic the country was, and how much power the military had.

But, the good thing, is that the majority of Turks voted earlier en masse for Erdogan and his 'Islamic' ways...definitely a step in the right direction for Turkey's youth and future.

[جوري]

This wallah a3lam akhi is also another one of the predicted signs of the hour...

signs
27. The “Romans” will increase in number and fight the Muslims.

28. The conquest of Constantinople.

but we'll regain it back with "Allah Akbar"

it will get much worst before it gets better

Allah knows best!
:w:

[sudais1]

May Allah help them. A country should never forget its roots and it religion only for the privilege of being in a larger group in this case the EU. Islam is greater than the EU. I know if Turkey becomes a completely Islamic country the EU who are countries of Christianity will disallow the countries entry 110%.

YA Allah the hearer and seer. The maintainer. Help us, We are Distressed in our affairs. Raise your religion to where it should be. Indeed U have sent the truth. U have promised us victory and we wait for the victory of Allah and his deen. We ask for the Victory of Allah to be hasty.

Ameen

[Talha777]

These jahil kameenay!!! They make a mockery of Islam. Secularism is against our Religion, pure and simple.

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[Dahir]

Something that always puzzled me about Turkey was how its population is 98% Muslim, but now little the religion plays in the public?

Certainly, few other countries in the world have such a setup, especially Muslim ones.

[Trumble]

A country should never forget its roots and it religion only for the privilege of being in a larger group in this case the EU. Islam is greater than the EU.

It has nothing to do with the EU. Turkey was established as a secular state long before the EU even existed.

[KAding]

Source
Has it come to this in Turkey? Drunk on Ataturk reforms are they still?

Erdogan seems like a god-send for Turkey in these dark moments, and they insist he steps down?

And before reading this article, which renewed my interest in Turkey, I didn't know how anarchic the country was, and how much power the military had.

But, the good thing, is that the majority of Turks voted earlier en masse for Erdogan and his 'Islamic' ways...definitely a step in the right direction for Turkey's youth and future.

How is Turkey currently 'in dark moments'? What was so dark about Turkeys position before Erdogan showed up?

Besides, Erdogan insists he is a kemalist as well. I think it is merely a matter of degree, he is a bit less uptight about it than the die-hard kemalists. None of his actions show him to be in any way interested of abolishing the secular state and introduce Islamic law.

[KAding]

Something that always puzzled me about Turkey was how its population is 98% Muslim, but now little the religion plays in the public?

Certainly, few other countries in the world have such a setup, especially Muslim ones.

The kemalists consider the French revolution as the defining event in recent history. Not surprisingly France has similar attitudes as Turkey towards religion and thus a similar 'setup', although it is somewhat less oppressive. I do not think Turkey is much different from most countries on this planet, that formally separate state and religion. Even in the Muslim world I think many secular Arab leaders have/had a similar attitude towards religion as the Turkish system. In the West the religion adapted to those rules and retreated from the political institutions, in Muslim countries Islamists reject that very idea as being kufr.

[KAding]

May Allah help them. A country should never forget its roots and it religion only for the privilege of being in a larger group in this case the EU. Islam is greater than the EU. I know if Turkey becomes a completely Islamic country the EU who are countries of Christianity will disallow the countries entry 110%.

The irony of this all is that Turkey has actually become less oppressive towards religion because of EU demands. It is pressure from the EU that is weakening the kemalist military and putting more into the hands of those who want more religious liberties.

[Joe98]

……another one of the predicted signs of the hour...

27. The “Romans” will increase in number and fight the Muslims.

28. The conquest of Constantinople.

27. Why did you write Romans with exclamation marks?

28. Isn’t it amazing that cities in such predictions are always in the Middle East. New York and London never get a mention.

Perhaps the predictor didn’t know the Roman Empire would collapse. Nor did he know about New York and London.

This would account for it. Did the predictor get his message from god?

[جوري]

27. Why did you write Romans with exclamation marks?

28. Isn’t it amazing that cities in such predictions are always in the Middle East. New York and London never get a mention.

Perhaps the predictor didn’t know the Roman Empire would collapse. Nor did he know about New York and London.

This would account for it. Did the predictor get his message from god?

"Rome" exclamation marks --Represents Europe.. not an individual city.. and insh'Allah it shall be ours...
as we were told we'd conquer Arabia, (didn't say damam or Jedda but all of Arabia, including other current Arabic countries) then Persia (didn't say Isfhan, or Tehran) but all of modern day Iran, then Constantinople and its name has obviousely changed then, then Rome.. (Rome Denoting Europe) This last conquest shall not be through war! we have had a conquest of three and the 4th shall be as G-D wills it... Why not fasten your seatbelt and wait?.... and while at it.. try to work on your abstract thoughts... If he had said Turkey, or Iran back then would people have understood? but even to current day people have an understanding of whom the "Roman Empire" represents... Prophecies aren't made for the fancy of a mad cow house visitor. Become learned on a topic before you engage in a discussion, then you can avoid asking so many silly questions.

peace!

[Keltoi]

Why would Rome represent all of Europe? Sounds a little too convenient to me.

[جوري]

Why would Rome represent all of Europe? Sounds a little too convenient to me.

Everything is a little too convenient for you... Such was the prophecy... of which three parts thus far have come true and the 4th is slowly in action-- Europe will become predominantly Muslim at some point--This isn't an issue for a debate... it is a prophecy -- don't like it, take it out with G-D on the day of judgement.

[MTAFFI]

Everything is a little too convenient for you... Such was the prophecy... of which three parts thus far have come true and the 4th is slowly in action-- Europe will become predominantly Muslim at some point--This isn't an issue for a debate... it is a prophecy -- don't like it, take it out with G-D on the day of judgement.

So the prophecy says that each will be predominately muslim or muslim states?

[جوري]

Here is the prophecy... go ahead and check it with any authentic Islamic source... this was centuries .. the fact that they have happened is a testament to their validity.. And all G-D has to do is will something to be-- and it shall be


Said the Holy Prophet PBUH:

"You will invade the Arabian Peninsula and God will grant it. Then Persia and God will grant it. Then you shall invade Ar-Rum (Europe) and God will grant it. Then you shall attack the Antichrist and God shall give him to you"The Messenger of God was then asked "which of the two cities will be conquered first - Constantinople or Rome?" and the Holy Prophet PBUH replied : " The city of Heraclius (Constantinople) will be conquered FIRST"

peace!

[MTAFFI]

Here is the prophecy... go ahead and check it with any authentic Islamic source... this was centuries .. the fact that they have happened is a testament to their validity.. And all G-D has to do is will something to be-- and it shall be


Said the Holy Prophet PBUH:

"You will invade the Arabian Peninsula and God will grant it. Then Persia and God will grant it. Then you shall invade Ar-Rum (Europe) and God will grant it. Then you shall attack the Antichrist and God shall give him to you"The Messenger of God was then asked "which of the two cities will be conquered first - Constantinople or Rome?" and the Holy Prophet PBUH replied : " The city of Heraclius (Constantinople) will be conquered FIRST"

peace!

could you please provide the reference to the quran? Also by this statement it says, that someone shall invade, by definition invade is as follows

in·vade
1. to enter forcefully as an enemy; go into with hostile intent: Germany invaded Poland in 1939.
2. to enter like an enemy: Locusts invaded the fields.
3. to enter as if to take possession: to invade a neighbor's home.
4. to enter and affect injuriously or destructively, as disease: viruses that invade the bloodstream.
5. to intrude upon: to invade the privacy of a family.
6. to encroach or infringe upon: to invade the rights of citizens.

I do not see that this has happened and judging by the word used this prophecy is either untrue or has yet to happen, surely the holy prophet would have used a word such as populate if this was his meaning, although like many things I suppose it is up to the readers interpretation and what his/her intent is when reading it.

[Philosopher]

Turkey is 99% Muslim. Why are secularists so influential here?

[Trumble]

How can you claim

"Rome" exclamation marks --Represents Europe.. not an individual city..

One minute, and then think

"The Messenger of God was then asked "which of the two cities will be conquered first - Constantinople or Rome?" and the Holy Prophet PBUH replied : " The city of Heraclius (Constantinople) will be conquered FIRST"

of any significance at all the next? :? What does Constantinople 'represent', then.. the near East??

[جوري]

How can you claim

One minute, and then think

of any significance at all the next? :? What does Constantinople 'represent', then.. the near East??

Dear trumble.. was surprised so many posts took place here in your absence-- what took you so long to grace us with your two cents?....

perhaps it won't be of any significance to you, at all... it is however to the Muslim world... would you like to add anything else?

[Amadeus85]

Something that always puzzled me about Turkey was how its population is 98% Muslim, but now little the religion plays in the public?

Certainly, few other countries in the world have such a setup, especially Muslim ones.

Politic and religion should stay away for a long distance. It is better for both religion and politic.:) Just see what hapenned in Europe where rulers were using religion for centuries and now europeans don't trust Church and many are atheists.Religion should be always a private case for all not a political case.

[Amadeus85]

Turkey is 99% Muslim. Why are secularists so influential here?

Because simply not all muslims are very religious, some are only muslims by name just like there are many christians by name in Europe for example.And anyway, even many religious muslims can think that religion and politic should be always seperated.I am a christian and i am very happy that my country has secular constitution.It is a condition to freedom of faith and freedom of thoughts.

[جوري]

^^European rule under the dark ages of the church.. can hardly be compared to the enlightenment under the Muslim Empire-- the best thing for the Muslim world is to be united under one empire and govern by religious law... it was very successful for centuries. I have no reason to believe that it won't be when it is reestablished.. in the very least there will be justice for all.. Islamic law, doesn't interfere with business or economics so long as you walk in the light.. do your wheeling and dealings in an honorable manner!

peace!

[Muezzin]

I felt the 'prophesy point' made by a member was valid, and because other members asked for clarification as to what that prophesy is, I have left the relevant posts. However, I have deleted the posts that were going too far on a tangent (i.e. discussing the veracity of sources to do with those points), since they were steering the topic away from the article in the first post, and in some cases were insulting to other members.

All members are reminded to post in a respectful manner.

[جوري]

the hadith can be found in the following Islamic sources [Al-Hakim, Al-Mustadrak, vol. 4, p. 508. Also, see As-Silsilah as-Sahihah, vol. 1]

thanks!

[wilberhum]

Mean while, back at the ranch, when others were fighting about prophecy, :? the cow hands were discussing; :D
[S]Pro-Secular Protest attracts 200,000 in Turkey [/S]

Maybe things like this help make them want secularism.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070418/...y_bible_attack

ISTANBUL, Turkey - Assailants tied up three people at a publishing house that distributes Bibles in Turkey and then slit their throats Wednesday, adding to a string of attacks apparently targeting the country's tiny Christian minority

[جوري]

Mean while, back at the ranch, when others were fighting about prophecy, :? the cow hands were discussing; :D
[S]Pro-Secular Protest attracts 200,000 in Turkey [/S]

Maybe things like this help make them want secularism.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070418/...y_bible_attack

if there were a Muslim rule in Turkey this wouldn't be happening.. everyone can see that though Turkey is 98% Muslim it is trying to skulk up to the European Union...The whole point of this post is though they are Muslim, they are not governing by Islamic law-- Killing minorities seems in concert with atrocities committed in the name of Byzantium not the Muslim empire..or do assailants in your book automatically mean Muslims?
peace!

[Amadeus85]

Mean while, back at the ranch, when others were fighting about prophecy, :? the cow hands were discussing; :D
[S]Pro-Secular Protest attracts 200,000 in Turkey [/S]

Maybe things like this help make them want secularism.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070418/...y_bible_attack

Did this really happen? If it's true it's shocking. How can people murder other only because of printing a Bible....

[جوري]

Did this really happen? If it's true it's shocking. How can people murder other only because of printing a Bible....

How can a man open gun fire on 31 random people for attending class? Strange world with many unanswered questions!

peace!

[Muezzin]

Everyone: As sad as these murders are, please do not derail this thread's topic to discuss them. Instead make a separate thread.

[Amadeus85]

How can a man open gun fire on 31 random people for attending class? Strange world with many unanswered questions!

peace!

I see Your point but that murder in Turkey seemed to have religious fundament and shooting in USA campus was act of a madman.

[Muezzin]

Last warning before I start deleting off-topic stuff, guys...