The Qur'an Is The Word Of Allah ..

[mariam.]

All that we have seen in this work shows us one clear fact: The Qur'an, this extraordinary book which was revealed to the Seal of the Prophets, Muhammad (saas), is a source of inspiration and true knowledge. The book of Islam-no matter what subject it refers to-is being proved as Allah's Word as each new piece of historical, scientific or archaeological information comes to light. Facts about scientific subjects and the news delivered to us about the past and future, facts that no one could have known at the time of the Qur'an's revelation, are announced in its verses. It is impossible for this information, examples of which we have discussed in detail in this book, to have been known with the level of knowledge and technology available in 7th century Arabia. With this in mind, let us ask:

Could anyone in 7th century Arabia have known that our atmosphere is made up of seven layers?

Could anyone in 7th century Arabia have known in detail the various stages of development from which an embryo grows into a baby and then enters the world from inside his mother?

Could anyone in 7th century Arabia have known that the universe is "steadily expanding," as the Qur'an puts it, when modern scientists have only in recent decades put forward the idea of the "Big Bang"?

Could anyone in 7th century Arabia have known about the fact that each individual's fingertips are absolutely unique, when we have only discovered this fact recently, using modern technology and modern scientific equipment?

Could anyone in 7th century Arabia have known about the role of one of Pharaoh's most prominent aids, Haman, when the details of hieroglyphic translation were only discovered two centuries ago?

Could anyone in 7th century Arabia have known that the word "Pharaoh" was only used from the 14th century B.C. and not before, as the Old Testament erroneously claims?

Could anyone in 7th century Arabia have known about Ubar and Iram's Pillars, which were only discovered in recent decades via the use of NASA satellite photographs?

The only answer to these questions is as follows: the Qur'an is the Word of the Almighty Allah, the Originator of everything and the One Who encompasses everything with His knowledge. In one verse, Allah says, "If it had been from other than Allah, they would have found many inconsistencies in it." (Qur'an, 4:82) Every piece of information the Qur'an contains reveals the secret miracles of this divine book.

The human being is meant to hold fast to this Divine Book revealed by Allah and to receive it with an open heart as his one and only guide in life. In the Qur'an, Allah tells us the following:

This Qur'an could never have been devised by any besides Allah. Rather it is confirmation of what came before it and an elucidation of the Book which contains no doubt from the Lord of all the worlds. Do they say, "He has invented it"? Say: "Then produce a sura like it and call on anyone you can besides Allah if you are telling the truth." (Qur'an, 10:37-38)

And this is a Book We have sent down and blessed, so follow it and have fear of Allah so that hopefully you will gain mercy. (Qur'an, 6:155)

by. harun yahya

[Hemoo]

another good thread sister

jazaky Allah khayran

[Talibatul Ilm]

subhanAllah if someone could openly deny these truths... =( it would be very saddening! may Allah continue to bring people to the faith of islam, and keep those who are muslims devoted to their deen! ameen

[Trumble]

Could anyone in 7th century Arabia have known that our atmosphere is made up of seven layers?

I don't know. Could any of the Jewish mystics who wrote about seven heavens have known it? Could any of the early Buddhists, who also talked about seven heavens, have known about it? Christians too? They even still have an everyday saying regarding "seventh heaven". Maybe they knew that the modern division is purely arbitrary anyway. 'Seven' in this context ('heavens') was ingrained in the religious thought of man long before Mohammed... as was that of seven earths (65:12). Does Yahya care to explain that one? Or 41:12? If he is right, the stars are in the Troposphere! The verses clearly don't refer to the atmosphere at all; that interpretation creates an inconsistency.

From http://www.understanding-islam.com

The reference to the fact that God has created seven heavens has generally been given in the Qur’an, in reply to the skepticism shown by the disbelievers regarding the possibility of life after death. The Qur’an, in reply to this skepticism has asked man to ponder over the fact that has not God created him in the first instance? If He created once, then why can’t He create a second time? Is the first creation more difficult or the second one? etc. It is in this context that the Qur’an says that it is not even possible for man to judge the level of omnipotence of God, and as an example it refers to the vastness of His creation. It says that God has not just created one sky -- i.e., one universe, but seven such skies -- or seven universes.

It seems that the huge universe that we live in, the one whose boundaries are not yet known to man, is just one of these heavens (universes) there are seven others, of which we -- with all our scientific developments -- do not know anything about. Certain verses of the Qur’an clearly indicate that the whole huge mass of space around us is just one of these universes, for instance the verse that you have yourself referred, is one of them. The Qur’an says that we created seven heavens, one over the other (the word "Tibaqa" means one over the other). Another verse which points to this fact is the following:

"And He created seven skies (heavens) in two days, and taught each sky its duties. And He adorned the nearest sky (or: the sky of this world) with lamps (stars)…" (Fussilat 41: 12)

The above verse refers to the fact that God has adorned the closest sky with stars. It seems from this that the whole universe that we are familiar with, and that too not yet completely, is the "Sama’ i Dunya" or the closest heaven (or: the heaven of this world).

We know that science has not yet been able to determine the boundaries of even the "Sama’ i Dunya". It is therefore not only improbable but impossible to explain this verse in scientific terms. The reason, as should be quite clear, is the limit of our scientific knowledge.

I have now written my last on this subject (honest!) but I will finish with a final request. Nay, a plea. PLEASE, muslim or not, look further for information on this stuff than Harun Yahya. The man is a charlatan, not a scholar. The 'truth', whatever it may be, cannot be found from less than one half of any story and there are far more sound analyses and intellectually honest views on such 'miracles', even from real muslim scholars (see above)who are convinced by at least some of them. Seek them out.

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[mariam.]

I don't know. Could any of the Jewish mystics who wrote about seven heavens have known it? Could any of the early Buddhists, who also talked about seven heavens, have known about it? Christians too? They even still have an everyday saying regarding "seventh heaven". Maybe they knew that the modern division is purely arbitrary anyway. 'Seven' in this context ('heavens') was ingrained in the religious thought of man long before Mohammed... as was that of seven earths (65:12). Does Yahya care to explain that one? Or 41:12? If he is right, the stars are in the Troposphere! The verses clearly don't refer to the atmosphere at all; that interpretation creates an inconsistency.

Hi Trumble:
you know how much I believe in co-existence, and how much I regard your different Opinion ... So please when you want to discuss with me don't quote me articles which writen by some one .. forgive me
whoDon't know any thing about Arabic

Now .. what about this verse:
In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
"And He created seven skies (heavens) in two days, and taught each sky its duties. And He adorned the nearest sky (or: the sky of this world) with lamps (stars)…"

first of all I want you to know that Arabic is universal language, it's different from English ... in many ways
In Arabic God said " assamaa' aldunia" which translated = nearest sky (or the sky of this world) ...
If you open the vocabulary you can found such meaning for this word "aldunia".
you can found: nearest, lower, some one who you have relation with, worldly existence (opposite of afterworld) .....
the last one is most popular meaning to this word ,So this verse talk about the worldly heaven in generally with out any definition and I think that this verse should be translated Like that: "And He created seven skies (heavens) in two days, and taught each sky its duties. And He adorned the worldly sky with lamps .." Allah knows best.

I don't said that my opinion is the right One .. but it just a try to understand this verse.

Now.. what about the seven earths? I think Harun yahya can answer you:

THE LAYERS OF THE EARTH

One item of information about the Earth given in the Qur'an is its similarity to the seven-layered sky:

It is Allah Who created the seven heavens and of the earth the same number, the Command descending down through all of them, so that you might know that Allah has power over all things and that Allah encompasses all things in His knowledge. (Qur'an, 65:12)

The information in the above verse is confirmed in scientific sources, wherein it is explained that the Earth consists of seven strata. These, as scientists have identified, are:

1st layer: Lithosphere (water)

2nd layer: Lithosphere (land)

3rd layer: Asthenosphere

4th layer: Upper Mantle

5th layer: Inner Mantle

6th layer: Outer Core

7th layer: Inner Core

The word lithosphere is derived from the Greek word lithos, meaning stone, which is a hard stratum forming the Earth's top layer. It is quite thin in comparison to the other strata. The lithosphere under the oceans is still thinner, and is a region with volcanic activity. Its average thickness is 80 km. It is colder and harder than the other strata, and therefore, forms the earth's shell.

Below the lithosphere is the stratum known as the asthenosphere, from the Greek word for "weak," asthenes. This layer is thinner than the lithosphere and shifts. It was formed of hot, semi-solid substances capable of melting when exposed to high temperatures and pressure over geological time. It is thought that the hard lithosphere floats or moves over the slowly moving asthenosphere.23 Under these layers is a high-temperature layer some 2,900 km thick, made up of semi-solid rock known as the mantle. This contains more iron, magnesium and calcium than the crust, and is also hotter and denser, because temperature and density in the Earth increase with depth.

At the centre of the Earth is the core, approximately twice as dense as the mantle. The reason for that density is that it contains a higher proportion of metals (iron-nickel alloy) than rock. The Earth's core consists of two parts. One is the 2,200 km thick liquid outer core, the other a 1,250 km thick solid inner core. The liquid outer core provides the Earth's magnetic field as the planet rotates.

The truth of this similarity between the sky and the layers of the Earth, only identified by 20th century technology, is without doubt another of the Qur'an's scientific miracles.

I have now written my last on this subject (honest!) but I will finish with a final request. Nay, a plea. PLEASE, muslim or not, look further for information on this stuff than Harun Yahya. The man is a charlatan, not a scholar. The 'truth', whatever it may be, cannot be found from less than one half of any story and there are far more sound analyses and intellectually honest views on such 'miracles', even from real muslim scholars (see above)who are convinced by at least some of them. Seek them out.

So be honest and don't answer me .. as you want.
but please don't traduce this man, If you think your self better than him.
" O ye who believe! Avoid suspicion as much (as possible): for suspicion in some cases is a sin: and spy not on each other, nor speak ill of each other behind their backs. Would any of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother? Nay, ye would abhor it...But fear Allah, for Allah is Oft- Returning, Most Merciful. "(49:12)

Look Trumble .. Harun yahya was born in Ankara in 1956, He studied arts at Istanbul's Mimar sinan university and philosophy at Istanbul university ...
I know he is not a scientist but what he said is consolidated with proof, If he make mistake that doesn't mean that All his writes are wrong .. he is just a human

every one of the moslems wants to serve his religion, to define it to the other .. we are able to make mistakes because we are ONLY human.
" He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established, clear meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are not entirely clear. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is not clear, seeking discord, and searching for hidden meanings in it, but no one knows its interpretation except Allah.
And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding. " (3:7)

take care

[Trumble]

You seem to have completely my missed the point that the whole seven heavens/seven earths thing was around long before the Prophet, and is well documented. That completely torpedoes any 'miracle' argument. It was just what everybody had being saying for centuries. How did those ancients come up with seven? Who knows.. maybe as simple five planets visible to the naked eye (Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Venus, Mercury) plus sun and moon. Seven. Allocate a bit of heaven to each, and bingo.

I'm not sure what you mean regarding the Arabic. The passage you reproduced was my own, not a quote. The sourced passage I quoted, was from an established Islamic site - I assume the author was perfectly familiar with the Arabic, although I'm not quite sure how I was supposed to know if that is not the case? I have read, and re-read those passages. There is nothing about the earth's atmosphere. Taken as a whole all the relevant verses actually form a beautiful and very impressive description of the extent of (God's) creation but Yahya's fumbling for a 'proof' just cheapens that. The inconsistency it introduces is obvious, however you translate it.

As to the science, the composition of both earth and atmosphere changes as you go in-out, but generally the changes are gradual. The simple fact is that scientists have NOT 'discovered' that the atmosphere 'consists of seven layers'. They have decided to analyse it that way for convenience, that is all. Or some of them have! It could be five. Or nine. Or fifteen. Or twenty one. Depending how they decide to split it up. It has seven/five/six layers purely arbitrarily. Same with the earth. Look at your picture. There is no magic divide between, say, the upper mantle and inner mantle. One merges into the other, and they could (and have) just as easily called the whole lot just 'mantle'. Or had an upper, middle and lower mantle. And so on.

Let's illustrate that.

FIVE layers and again, FIVE layers or how about SIX layers? Or if you add the boundary regions, 11 layers!

And so on, and so on. If the Qur'an had said 'five' (or six, or eleven) you would have seen just the same from Yahya with different 'sources' and a different number. I rest my case.

Time to go.

[mariam.]

The sourced passage I quoted, was from an established Islamic site - I assume the author was perfectly familiar with the Arabic.

when I wrote my unswer .. I was knowing that this quote from an established Islamic site.
and Now I want to apologize, maybe I was hasty to say that.
and I ask my Lord to forgive me .. in my Last reply I post you this verse:
" He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established, clear meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are not entirely clear. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is not clear, seeking discord, and searching for hidden meanings in it, but no one knows its interpretation except Allah.
And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding. " (3:7)

God doesn't inhibit us from trying to understand his book but, we can't assure that we are right or not ...
Quran was sent down to all humanity,so as to every human can understand it
even he is ignorant or scholar, even he was existed before 1400 years or in the modern age.

do you imagine that Quran should said to us Troposphere and atmosphere?
Quran is Holy book .. it's not a scientific One.

Trumble, If I hurt you .. Iam sorry

finally, I ask you to understand my last words ..
what you read it about miracles is just a way to understand Quran, you have a choice to believe it or not ...

"We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord"

peace