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View Full Version : We worship GOD Almighty in His Grand Temple/House. We never worship the House itsel



tresbien
04-18-2007, 12:07 PM
A quick and brief answer:

We worship GOD Almighty in His Grand Temple/House. We never worship the House itself!

The Bible's Prophets in the Bible also had a "House of GOD Almighty" that they worshiped Him in.

Also, the Jews' wailing wall today is a similar example to the Muslims' Kaaba, where the Jews pray to GOD Almighty facing the wall.



Also:

"I will bow down toward your holy temple and will praise your name for your love and your faithfulness, for you have exalted above all things your name and your word. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 138:2)"

GOD Almighty's Holy Temple in Islam is the Kaaba in Mecca.



Q11- If Islam is so against any form of idol worship, why do they bow to the kaaba? Why do they call it God's House? Do they believe He lives there?

The sections of this article are:

1- The House/Temple of GOD Almighty in the Noble Quran and the Bible.

2- But aren't Muslims still physically bowing down to the Kaaba itself?
- See also how the Bible's Prophets (including Jesus) Prayed the Islamic way.
- The Kaaba also maximizes the Worship of GOD Almighty by unifying the Muslims.

3- What is the difference then between the hindu idols and the Kaba?
4- What about the black stone near the Kaaba? How sacred is it?
5- Is the Jews' wailing wall idol worship?
6- Conclusion.







1- The House/Temple of GOD Almighty in the Noble Quran and the Bible:

To help the Jewish and Christian reader understand the Islamic way of Worship better, I'd like to first present the following from the Bible:

Psalm 138:2
I will bow down toward your holy temple and will praise your name for your love and your faithfulness, for you have exalted above all things your name and your word.

GOD Almighty's Holy Temple in Islam is the Kaaba in Mecca.


Genesis 28:16-18
16 When Jacob awoke from his sleep, he thought, "Surely the LORD is in this place, and I was not aware of it."
17 He was afraid and said, "How awesome is this place! This is none other than the house of God; this is the gate of heaven."
18 Early the next morning Jacob took the stone he had placed under his head and set it up as a pillar and poured oil on top of it.

Judges 20:18
18 The Israelites went up to Bethel (the House of GOD in Hebrew) and inquired of God. They said, "Who of us shall go first to fight against the Benjamites?" The LORD replied, "Judah shall go first."

1 Chronicles 6:47-49
47 the son of Mahli, the son of Mushi, the son of Merari, the son of Levi.
48 Their fellow Levites were assigned to all the other duties of the tabernacle, the house of God.
49 But Aaron and his descendants were the ones who presented offerings on the altar of burnt offering and on the altar of incense in connection with all that was done in the Most Holy Place, making atonement for Israel, in accordance with all that Moses the servant of God had commanded.


"Behold! We gave the site, To Abraham, of the (Sacred) House (i.e., the Kaaba), (Saying): 'Associate not anything (In worship) with Me; And sanctify My House For those who compass it round, Or stand up, Or bow, or prostrate themselves (Therein in prayer). And proclaim the Pilgrimage among men: they will come to thee on foot and (mounted) on every kind of camel, lean on account of journeys through deep and distant mountain highways; (The Noble Quran, 22:26-27)"


As we clearly see, the "House of GOD"Almighty is mentioned in both the Bible and the Noble Quran. The Prostration to GOD Almighty in either His House or in the direction of His House (if you live far away) is the most proper way of Worship according to both the Bible and the Noble Quran.

As we also clearly see, the House of GOD Almighty was mentioned in the Bible first. The Kaba or Kaaba (the black cube building in Saudi Arabia) is basically the symbolic point on earth (His House) that GOD Almighty Chose to have all of His True Believers meet Him through bowing down their faces in humility down to the ground before Him.

The actual bricks and cement that make up the Kaaba are not holy.



They are no more holier than the bricks and cement that we see on regular basis in the towns that we live in.



While it is true that many ignorant and illiterate Muslims might incline toward idol worship and do consider the actual Kaaba as a very sacred thing to a point where they would go as far as rubbing their bodies against it to get "blessings", but these people are not representing the True picture of Islam. If a person worships the Kaaba itself, then he/she becomes an idol worshiper:

"Behold! We gave the site, To Abraham, of the (Sacred) House (i.e., the Kaaba), (Saying): 'Associate not anything (In worship) with Me; And sanctify My House For those who compass it round, Or stand up, Or bow, or prostrate themselves (Therein in prayer). And proclaim the Pilgrimage among men: they will come to thee on foot and (mounted) on every kind of camel, lean on account of journeys through deep and distant mountain highways; (The Noble Quran, 22:26-27)"

"Say: 'O People of the Book (i.e., Jews and Christians)! Come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah.' If then they turn back, say ye: 'Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).' (The Noble Quran, 3:64)"

"God forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with God is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed. (The Noble Quran, 4:48)"

"Who can be better in religion than one who submits his whole self to God, does good, and follows the way of Abraham the true in Faith? For God did take Abraham for a friend. (The Noble Quran, 4:125)"



The Kaaba is only the House of GOD Almighty and is the meeting place for us to meet the Almighty LORD by bowing down our faces in humility down to the ground before Him in that direction.



GOD Almighty Chose that spot on earth to be the meeting place with Him, because It is His Grand Temple.



We Worship Allah Almighty in His House/Temple. We never worship the Temple itself.



Since Allah Almighty ordered Abraham the father of Ishmael and Isaac peace be upon them to build the Kaaba, people called it the House of GOD Almighty, and it became the direction for us to bow down to Allah Almighty in worship:

"Behold! We gave the site, To Abraham, of the (Sacred) House (i.e., the Kaaba), (Saying): 'Associate not anything (In worship) with Me; And sanctify My House For those who compass it round, Or stand up, Or bow, or prostrate themselves (Therein in prayer). And proclaim the Pilgrimage among men: they will come to thee on foot and (mounted) on every kind of camel, lean on account of journeys through deep and distant mountain highways; (The Noble Quran, 22:26-27)"

So when Muslims prostrate to Allah Almighty, they prostrate in the direction that is as close as possible to Him. It was also prophesied in the Noble Quran that people from all over the world would come to the city of Mecca (where the Kaaba is located) for pilgrimage.

Please visit: The detailed story of how the Kaaba was built by Abraham and his son Ishmael peace be upon them.


During the early days of Islam, the Muslims were commanded to bow down to Allah Almighty in the direction of the Farthest Mosque (Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa) in Jerusalem, because it was the Holiest Mosque/Temple to worship Allah Almighty in back since it was not defiled with idols. Allah Almighty then commanded Prophet Muhammad to order the Muslims to prostrate to Allah Almighty in the direction of the Kaaba in Mecca, because it was the House of GOD Almighty which was built by Prophet Abraham peace be upon him (mentioned also in the Bible), and because after the Muslims liberated Mecca in a 10,000 men army (this event was prophesied in the Bible), they cleaned the Kaaba from all idols.





2- But aren't Muslims still physically bowing down to the Kaaba itself?

We've already seen the "House of GOD"Almighty in both the Bible and the Noble Quran above. We've seen how the Prostration to GOD Almighty in either His House or in the direction of His House (if you live far away) is the most proper way of Worship.

Again, to help the Jewish and Christian reader understand the Islamic point better, I'd like to present the following from the Bible:

Numbers 24:3-5
3 and he uttered his oracle: "The oracle of Balaam son of Beor, the oracle of one whose eye sees clearly,
4 the oracle of one who hears the words of God, who sees a vision from the Almighty, who falls prostrate, and whose eyes are opened:
5 "How beautiful are your tents, O Jacob, your dwelling places, O Israel!

Deuteronomy 9:17-19
17 So I took the two tablets and threw them out of my hands, breaking them to pieces before your eyes.
18 Then once again I fell prostrate before the LORD for forty days and forty nights; I ate no bread and drank no water, because of all the sin you had committed, doing what was evil in the LORD's sight and so provoking him to anger.
19 I feared the anger and wrath of the LORD, for he was angry enough with you to destroy you. But again the LORD listened to me.

Deuteronomy 9:25
25 I lay prostrate before the LORD those forty days and forty nights because the LORD had said he would destroy you.

1 Kings 18:39
39 When all the people saw this, they fell prostrate and cried, "The LORD -he is God! The LORD -he is God!"

Even Jesus, peace be upon him, bowed down to Allah Almighty the Islamic way:
"Going a little farther, he [Jesus] fell with his face to the ground and prayed, 'My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.' (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 26:39)"



When Muslims bow down to Allah Almighty in worship at their homes, they do not for instance bow down to the sofa, or to the pair of shoes, or to the table, or to the wall, or to the door, or to the TV, or to any object that is in front of them in their homes. They bow down to Allah Almighty only, regardless what's in front of them AS LONG AS THEY ARE NOT WORSHIPING THAT OBJECT. The Kaaba is the same thing. We do not bow down to it in worship in any shape or form. We bow down only to Allah Almighty in its direction because it is His Appointed House where He symbolically meets His Servants and True Believers.

The Kaaba makes the millions of Muslims all over the world Pray to Allah Almighty as one unified community.



The direction of the Kaaba not only unifies the Muslims, but it also maximizes the Glorification and Praising of GOD Almighty.

It maximizes the Glorification of GOD Almighty, because in the 5-daily Prayers, it is not only the individual who is Praising GOD, but also the millions of the Muslims world-wide (who are on the same time) are doing it almost simultaneously as if they were ONE CLOSE COMMUNITY.



Now in regards to whether Allah Almighty living there or not, no we do not believe that Allah Almighty lives there. Allah Almighty is unlimited and is every where.

By the way, the Orthodox Jews too bow down to GOD Almighty in worship. Below is a picture of how Jews worship Allah Almighty:







3- What is the difference then between the hindu idols and the Kaba?

The comparison is an unfair one because while the Muslims bow down to GOD Almighty and only to GOD Almighty in Worship, the hindus pray to and glorify their idols. They address them as "your divinity" and "your holiness". That's clearly idol worship! You must never confuse the House of GOD Almighty, where GOD and His Servants meet, with the man-made idols and statues. Allah Almighty Said:

"For ye do worship idols besides God, and ye invent falsehood. The things that ye worship besides God have no power to give you sustenance: then seek ye sustenance from God, serve Him, and be grateful to Him: to Him will be your return. (The Noble Quran, 29:17)"

"And he said: "For you, ye have taken (for worship) idols besides God, out of mutual love and regard between yourselves in this life; but on the Day of Judgment ye shall disown each other and curse each other: and your abode will be the Fire, and ye shall have none to help." (The Noble Quran, 29:25)"

"And they set up (idols) as equal to God, to mislead (men) from the Path! Say: "Enjoy (your brief power)! But verily ye are making straightway for Hell!" (The Noble Quran, 14:30)"

"Remember Abraham said: "O my Lord! make this city one of peace and security: and preserve me and my sons from worshipping idols. (The Noble Quran, 14:35)"



The Muslims on the hand are not idol worshipers. And neither were the Bible's Prophets (including Jesus), peace be upon them, who prostrated to GOD Almighty.



There is a difference between worshiping GOD Almighty in the direction of His House, and putting idols and praying to them.



Let's not forget also that the hindus' and the buddhists' idols are statues. The same also for those who worship the fire, sun, moon, stars, etc... Allah Almighty Said:

"Among His Sings are the Night and the Day, and the Sun and the Moon. Adore not the sun and the moon, but adore God, Who created them, if it is Him ye wish to serve. (The Noble Quran, 41:37)"

"They ask thee Concerning the New Moons. Say: They are but signs To mark fixed periods of time In (the affairs of) men, And for Pilgrimage. It is no virtue if ye enter the houses from the back: It is virtue if ye fear Allah. Enter houses Through the proper doors: And fear Allah: That ye may prosper. (The Noble Quran, 2:189)"





4- What about the black stone near the Kaaba? How sacred is it?

The black stone is like the bricks and cement that make up the Kaaba. It is not holy at all and is not worshiped in any shape or form. The black stone is nothing but a Heavenly object (an asteroid) that GOD Almighty descended on earth to determine the exact location of where His House was going to be built by Abraham and his son Ishmael, peace be upon them.

While Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him kissed the stone before, because it was chosen by Allah Almighty to descend on earth to determine the location of the Kaaba, but that still doesn't make it anything holy.

It certainly makes it a remarkable and noticeable object that is worth visiting and seeing, but anyone who worships it is an idol worshiper! And like I said above, those ignorant and illiterate from the Muslims who go as far as rubbing themselves against the Kaaba and/or the stone to get "blessings" are not representing Islam's True picture at all.

For more information, please visit: The black stone in Mecca is not worshiped by Muslims.



5- Is the Jews' wailing wall idol worship?

Are Jews idol worshipers for praying to GOD Almighty while directly facing the wailing wall in a very close distance?







6- Conclusion:

As I demonstrated and proved above, Islam and the Prophets are far from promoting any form of idol worship. You must never confuse or mix the Worship of GOD Almighty with the worship of man-made idols. The hindus' and buddhists' worship of idols is far from being even remotely compared to Islam.

It is clear that the Muslims today are the only ones who truly Glorify GOD Almighty in the Maximum way. Even Jesus, the polytheist trinitarian pagans' god, Worshiped GOD Almighty and Glorified Him the Islamic way. Even though it was done hypocritically because he only did it once during his most desperate times and he has never done it before, but he still nonetheless showed that the Islamic way is the BEST WAY to really Glorify GOD Almighty in. Of course the reader needs to know that the Jesus of the Bible is not the same as the Jesus of Islam. See the link.

Islam is truly the best Faith to Worship, Praise and Glorify GOD Almighty in. Therefore, embrace Islam and you will be saved.

taken from

http://www.answering-christianity.com/que11.htm
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Fr0mHim
04-19-2007, 06:58 PM
If I may add one thought the Temple = our body.our Body meaning my physical body or our body. we worship God in our body not in a building.
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AvarAllahNoor
04-19-2007, 07:35 PM
God is prevading everywhere, yes and in the toilet. Places of worship just helps us focus on him better as a congregation!
Reply

Woodrow
04-20-2007, 04:26 AM
I am moving this to Comparative Religion as there are interesting views from non-Muslims also posted. Since some of these views differ from Islamic beliefs, this is not a thread expressing just views of Islam, so it is misleading to be in "Discover Islam"
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- Qatada -
04-20-2007, 01:43 PM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
God is prevading everywhere, yes and in the toilet. Places of worship just helps us focus on him better as a congregation!

No He isn't, please stop saying evil things about God man. That's well disrespectful. God is everywhere in knowledge, and He is established above His throne above the heavens, in a way which befits His Majesty.


By the way, may Allaah reward you uncle woodrow :) that was a good explanation. It's quite ironic since the christian arabs themselves call God - Allaah to this day. So there's not really any confusion at all.
Reply

Abdul Fattah
04-20-2007, 11:55 PM
MashaAllah for this article
I went on umrah recently, and I noticed first handed that the door to shirk is open since we look towards the ka'aba during prayer. And when I observed people's behavior around the ka'aba, I was afraid that some of our brothers have already stumbled for this test. May Allah subhana wa ta'ala guide us on the straight path.
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
04-21-2007, 12:10 AM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
God is prevading everywhere, yes and in the toilet. Places of worship just helps us focus on him better as a congregation!
Nice to know you pray to the toilet.
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AvarAllahNoor
04-21-2007, 10:15 AM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
No He isn't, please stop saying evil things about God man. That's well disrespectful. God is everywhere in knowledge, and He is established above His throne above the heavens, in a way which befits His Majesty.

.
Evil?? are you serious. Do you think God does not see everything?? That is what I meant. OR, do you think he shields his eyes when we go to the toilet like a child? :rollseyes

You forget like a mother looks ater her child so does God. He sees all you do and what you do and with whom you do it with. God is all present at all times, not EVER is he away from his creation.
:)
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AvarAllahNoor
04-21-2007, 10:21 AM
Originally Posted by Al Madani
Nice to know you pray to the toilet.
Who appointed those who lack in knowledge moderators....

Is Allah not everwhere? do you think he stands outside the door whilst you do a number one ot two.....? Lord give me strength. You really have no idea about his power do you. You've confined the master to just the heaven....
:rollseyes
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Muslim Knight
04-21-2007, 10:37 AM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Who appointed those who lack in knowledge moderators....

Is Allah not everwhere? do you think he stands outside the door whilst you do a number one ot two.....? Lord give me strength. You really have no idea about his power do you. You've confined the master to just the heaven....:rollseyes
Nor do you. We know that Allah's Power extends over all things, but we take care not to associate His Majesty with things like toilets, dung and all. Take example of the honest Jews who are careful of spelling His name as G-d for fear of putting a blemish on His Holy name, this is a good attitude.

Yes, it is He who created those things, and you and me, and all creations, but let's just not belittle Him to those things. It is better acknowledge by nodding and then let's move on to the next issue shall we?
Reply

MustafaMc
04-21-2007, 10:45 AM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
No He isn't, please stop saying evil things about God man. That's well disrespectful. God is everywhere in knowledge, and He is established above His throne above the heavens, in a way which befits His Majesty.
Thank you brother for correcting this error. I don't know what Sikhs believe, but we certainly don't believe that Allah is everywhere, including such detestable places. Correct me if I am wrong, but don't we believe that Allah has knowledge of everything without being "in them".

Quran 6:59 He Alone has the keys of the unseen treasures, of which no one knows except Him. He knows whatever is in the land and in the sea; there is not a single leaf that falls without His knowledge, there is neither a grain in the darkness of the earth nor anything fresh or dry which has not been recorded in a Clear Book.
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AvarAllahNoor
04-21-2007, 10:50 AM
Originally Posted by Muslim Knight
Nor do you. We know that Allah's Power extends over all things, but we take care not to associate His Majesty with things like toilets, dung and all. Take example of the honest Jews who are careful of spelling His name as G-d for fear of putting a blemish on His Holy name, this is a good attitude.

Yes, it is He who created those things, and you and me, and all creations, but let's just not belittle Him to those things. It is better acknowledge by nodding and then let's move on to the next issue shall we?
Indeed! As for spelling the name wrong. Well we should all be as pure as the snow from within. This to God means more than to show the world how good we are from the outside. Or this is what we're taught. I do agree tho we should not asscociate God with unclean things. But that is not to say he's not there. Some people choose not to say God in the toilet. lol I find this hysterical. Each to their own eh.

BTW - The ''cootchie Coo' made me laugh.
:)
Reply

Ghira
04-23-2007, 03:48 PM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Indeed! As for spelling the name wrong. Well we should all be as pure as the snow from within. This to God means more than to show the world how good we are from the outside. Or this is what we're taught. I do agree tho we should not asscociate God with unclean things. But that is not to say he's not there. Some people choose not to say God in the toilet. lol I find this hysterical. Each to their own eh.

BTW - The ''cootchie Coo' made me laugh.
:)
God is not everywhere and certaintly not in bathrooms. We always have to say his knowledge is everywhere and he is above his throne (Arsh) above the heavens.
Reply

tresbien
04-23-2007, 04:09 PM
It is proven in the Qur’aan and Sunnah and by the consensus (ijmaa’) of the salaf (early generations) of this ummah that Allaah is above His heavens on His Throne, and that He is the Exalted, Most High. He is Above all things, and there is nothing that is above Him. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Allaah it is He Who has created the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them in six Days. Then He rose over (Istawaa) the Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty). You (mankind) have none, besides Him, as a Wali (protector or helper) or an intercessor. Will you not then remember (or receive admonition)?”

[al-Sajdah 32:4]

“Surely, your Lord is Allaah Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days and then rose over (Istawaa) the Throne (really in a manner that suits His Majesty), disposing the affair of all things [Yoonus 10:3]

“To Him ascend (all) the goodly words, and the righteous deeds exalt it (i.e. the goodly words are not accepted by Allaah unless and until they are followed by good deeds) [Faatir 35:10]

“He is the First (nothing is before Him) and the Last (nothing is after Him), the Most High (nothing is above Him) and the Most Near (nothing is nearer than Him) [al-Hadeed 57:3]

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “You are the Most High and there is nothing above You…”

There are many similar ayaat and ahaadeeth. But at the same time, Allaah tells us that He is with His slaves wherever they are:

“Have you not seen that Allaah knows whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is on the earth? There is no Najwa (secret counsel) of three but He is their fourth (with His Knowledge, while He Himself is over the Throne, over the seventh heaven), — nor of five but He is their sixth (with His Knowledge), — nor of less than that or more but He is with them (with His Knowledge) wheresoever they may be” [al-Mujaadilah 58:7]

Allaah has combined mention of His being above His Throne with mention of His being with His slaves in one aayah, where He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days and then rose over (Istawaa) the Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty). He knows what goes into the earth and what comes forth from it, and what descends from the heaven and what ascends thereto. And He is with you (by His Knowledge) wheresoever you may be [al-Hadeed 57:4]

Saying that Allaah is with us does not mean that He is mixed with (or dwells in) His creation; rather He is with His slaves by His knowledge. He is above His Throne and nothing is hidden from Him of what they do. With regard to the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“And We are nearer to him than his jugular vein (by Our Knowledge)” [Qaaf 50:16]

- most of the mufassireen said that what is meant is that He is near by means of His angels whose task it is to record people’s deeds. And those who said that it means that He is near explained it as meaning that He is near by His knowledge, as is said concerning how He is with us.

This is the view of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah, who affirm that Allaah is above His creation and that He is also with His slaves, and they state that He is far above dwelling in His created beings. With regard to the denial of all Divine attributes as voiced by the Jahamiyyah and their followers, they deny that His Essence is above His creatures and that He rose above His Throne, and they say that He is present in His Essence everywhere. We ask Allaah to guide the Muslims.


Praise be to Allaah,

The people of Sunnah and Jamaa’ah (Ahl al-Sunnah) believe that Allaah is exalted above His creation because of the evidence of the Qur’aan, Sunnah, consensus of the scholars, common sense and man’s innate instinct (fitrah).

(1) The Qur’aan describes the "exaltedness" or "highness" of Allaah in different ways, as His being High and Above, and by describing how things come down from Him, and go up to Him, and by stating that He is above heaven. For example (interpretations of the meaning):

(Highness):
". . .and He is the Most High, the Most Great." [al-Baqarah 2:255]

"Glorify the Name of your Lord, the Most High." [al-A’la 87:1]

(Above):
"And He is the Irresistible, above His slaves . . ." [al-An’aam 6:18]

"They fear their Lord above them, and they do what they are commanded." [al-Nahl 16:50]

(Things coming down from Him):

"He arranges (every) affair from the heavens to the earth . . ." [al-Sajdah 32:5]

"Verily We: it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e., the Qur’aan). . ." [al-Hijr 15:9]

(Things going up to Him):

". . . To Him ascend (all) the goodly words, and the righteous deeds exalt it . . ." [Faatir 35:10]

"The angels and the Rooh (Jibreel) ascend to Him . . ." [al-Ma’aarij 70:4]

(Allaah is above heaven):

"Do you feel secure that He, Who is over the heaven, will not cause the earth to sink with you . . .?" [al-Mulk 67:16]

(2) The Sunnah: many reports were narrated "mutawaatir" (i.e. with a large number of narrators at every stage of the isnaad, such that it is impossible for them all to have agreed on a lie) from the Prophet (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him), describing his words and deeds and things of which he approved. For example, he used to say "Subhaana Rabbi al-A’laa (Glory be to my Lord Most High)" in sujood, and in some ahaadeeth he is reported to have said "By Allaah Who is above the Throne."

Among his deeds is the gesture of pointing up with his finger, when addressing the people in the greatest gathering, on the Day of ‘Arafaah during his Farewell Pilgrimage. He asked the people, "Have I not conveyed the message?" and they said, "Yes!" He asked again, "Have I not conveyed the message?" and they said, "yes!". He asked a third time, have I not conveyed the message?" and they said "Yes!" Each time, he said: "O Allaah, bear witness!" - pointing up to the sky and then at the people. He also used to raise his hands towards heaven when he made du’aa’, as it reported in tens of ahaadeeth. This is proof via his actions that Allaah is exalted and high.

An example of an approval of the Prophet (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) which indicates that Allaah is exalted and high is the hadeeth concerning the young slave girl, to whom the Prophet (Peace & Blessings of Allaah be upon Him) said: "Where is Allaah?" She said: "In heaven" He asked, "Who am I?" She said, "The Messenger of Allaah." So he said to her master: "Set her free, for she is a believer."

This young girl was uneducated, as many are, and she was a slave, but she knew that her Lord is above heaven. Some misguided people deny that Allaah is above heaven, and say, "He is neither above nor below; neither to the right nor to the left. He is everywhere!"

(3) The consensus of the scholars: the salaf agreed that Allaah is above heaven, as is reported by scholars such as al-Dhahabi, may Allaah have mercy on him, in his book Al-‘Aluw li’l-‘Aliy al-Ghaffaar.

(4) Common sense: highness is a quality which is associated in people’s minds with perfection. If this is the case, then it should be attributed to Allaah because every absolute perfection should be attributed to Him.

(5) The innate instinct of man (fitrah). There should be no dispute that man instinctively knows that Allaah is above heaven. Whenever something overwhelming befalls a person, and he turns to Allaah for help, he looks towards heaven, not in any other direction. But it is strange that those who deny that Allaah is above His creation still raise their hands in supplication to no other direction than towards heaven.

Even Pharaoh, the enemy of Allaah who disputed with Moosaa about his Lord, told his minister Haamaan (interpretation of the meaning): "O Haamaan! Build me a tower that I may arrive at the ways, - the ways of the heavens, and I may look upon the god of Moosaa . . ." [Ghaafir 40:36-37]

He knew in his heart of hearts that Allaah is real, as He says (interpretation of the meaning): "And they belied them (those aayaat) wrongfully and arrogantly, though their own selves were convinced thereof . . ." [al-Naml 27:14]

These are a few of the indications that Allaah is above the heavens; this proof comes from the Qur’aan, the Sunnah, the consensus of the scholars, common sense, man’s own instincts and even the words of the kuffaar.

We ask Allaah to guide us towards the Truth.




Islam Q&A
Reply

Fr0mHim
04-23-2007, 04:51 PM
Originally Posted by Ghira
God is not everywhere and certaintly not in bathrooms. We always have to say his knowledge is everywhere and he is above his throne (Arsh) above the heavens.
Question Ghira - do you have tribulations... or as David puts it do you ever go down into the pit?
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
04-23-2007, 06:46 PM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Who appointed those who lack in knowledge moderators....

Is Allah not everwhere? do you think he stands outside the door whilst you do a number one ot two.....? Lord give me strength. You really have no idea about his power do you. You've confined the master to just the heaven....
:rollseyes
Oh, so He really is in bathrooms physically, in the toilet? He is in the food you eat? He is in the water you drink? Inside people's skulls? Inside the earth? We're walking on Him? Please, make some sense.
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Fr0mHim
04-23-2007, 07:28 PM
what he means is... unlike humans who can only be at one place at one time.... God is omnipresent meaning he is everywhere... and that is physically and emotionally... what I mean by physically I mean... lets say your sitting down on a couch... well God is right there where you are... and then if you get up to go to another room he is right there... and if you leave that room.. he is still there in that room you left as well as he being on that couch you were sitting on... God is defined as not having limits... though God can perfectly limit himself, which he does for reasons.... ultimately God is everywhere
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
04-23-2007, 07:33 PM
Dont say he IS there. I understand what yall mean but its better to say He can see all from His Domain.
Reply

Fr0mHim
04-23-2007, 07:40 PM
Originally Posted by Jazzy
Dont say he IS there. I understand what yall mean but its better to say He can see all from His Domain.

well do you believe in a personal or a non personal God? not that God is only personal with one person... but he is personal with is creation I mean...
Reply

- Qatada -
04-23-2007, 07:53 PM
God only does what befits His Majesty :) therefore He doesn't need to be with His creation physically. Otherwise people can say really evil things about God which don't befit His Majesty.

Yes - He is everywhere in knowledge, but He doesn't need to be with us physically. Infact if that was the case - then the ones who claim to be more 'pious' than others would say that there is more 'god' inside of me, therefore worship me etc.


This is what happened with christians who raised the status of Jesus son of Mary (peace be upon them) to the status of God, because of the fact that they said he was 'god' in the flesh. So they started worshipping him and his mother. And this is also the misunderstanding people have when they raise the status of 'saints.' This then leads to them worshipping these people along with God, and therefore associating partners with Him - which is Shirk - which is the sin which Allaah does not forgive if the person dies in that state. However, He is prepared to forgive them if they disassociate from these false deities and worship God Alone.


Our statement of belief - Laa ilaaha illAllaah doesn't mean that theres no God besides Allaah, but it means there is none worthy of worship except Allaah.



Regards.
Reply

FatimaAsSideqah
04-23-2007, 08:11 PM
"Do you feel secure that He, Who is fis-sama (above the heavens), will not cause the earth to sink…Or do you feel secure that He, Who is fis-sama (above the heavens) will not send against you a violent whirlwind?" [67:16-17]

It is important to point out here that the literal translation of 'fis-sama' is 'in' the heavens. The scholars of tafseer have explained it according to the Arabic language for 'fi' in this context to have the meaning of above as it is not possible for Allah to be surrounded by His creation i.e. the heavens.

Abdullah ibn Amr ibn Al-As related that the Messenger said, "Allah grants mercy to the merciful. Be merciful to those who are on the earth, (then) He Who is fis-Sama (above the heavens) will be merciful to you." [Abu Dawood & At-Tirmidhi]

And the Muslims of today have the audacity to say that Allah is everywhere when their own Messenger pointed nowhere except to the sky above him in this clear hadith. I ask you, O Muslims, if you were to sit in front of me and I were to refer to you, would not I point directly to you and NOT the ground or to the sky to do so? So, why is it then when the Prophet points to the sky above him to refer to Allah we do not understand from this that Allah was above him, is above you and all his creations? Why do we wonder any more?

Muawiyah bin Al-Hakam As-Salmi said:

"I had a slave-girl who used to herd sheep for me. One day I discovered that a wolf had killed one of her sheep, and I'm a man from the children of Adam, I get upset like they get upset, and I slapped her in the face. Then I went to the Prophet who impressed upon me the seriousness of my act. I said, 'O Messenger of Allah, should I not set her free?' He said, 'Bring her to me.' He asked her, 'Where is Allah', She said, 'He is above the heavens.' He said, 'Who am I?' She said, 'You are the Messenger of Allah.' He said, 'Free her, for she is a believer.' (Muslim and Abu Dawud)

"Whoever does not affirm that Allah is above His heavens, upon His Throne and that He is distinct from His creation; must be forced to repent. If he does not repent, then he must be beheaded and then thrown into a garbage dump, so that the Muslims and the Ahl-Dhimma (the Christians and the Jew) will not suffer from his stinking smell." [Al-Hakim in Al-Marifah].

These verses merely point to the fact that Allah is everywhere but only by His Knowledge, His Seeing, His Hearing and His Power. Only this explanation will allow one to be in compliance with all the other proofs from the Quran, the Sunnah and the Ijma of the companions.

Peace..
Reply

Fr0mHim
04-24-2007, 04:23 PM
Originally Posted by RighteousLady
"Do you feel secure that He, Who is fis-sama (above the heavens), will not cause the earth to sink…Or do you feel secure that He, Who is fis-sama (above the heavens) will not send against you a violent whirlwind?" [67:16-17]

It is important to point out here that the literal translation of 'fis-sama' is 'in' the heavens. The scholars of tafseer have explained it according to the Arabic language for 'fi' in this context to have the meaning of above as it is not possible for Allah to be surrounded by His creation i.e. the heavens.

Abdullah ibn Amr ibn Al-As related that the Messenger said, "Allah grants mercy to the merciful. Be merciful to those who are on the earth, (then) He Who is fis-Sama (above the heavens) will be merciful to you." [Abu Dawood & At-Tirmidhi]

And the Muslims of today have the audacity to say that Allah is everywhere when their own Messenger pointed nowhere except to the sky above him in this clear hadith. I ask you, O Muslims, if you were to sit in front of me and I were to refer to you, would not I point directly to you and NOT the ground or to the sky to do so? So, why is it then when the Prophet points to the sky above him to refer to Allah we do not understand from this that Allah was above him, is above you and all his creations? Why do we wonder any more?

Muawiyah bin Al-Hakam As-Salmi said:

"I had a slave-girl who used to herd sheep for me. One day I discovered that a wolf had killed one of her sheep, and I'm a man from the children of Adam, I get upset like they get upset, and I slapped her in the face. Then I went to the Prophet who impressed upon me the seriousness of my act. I said, 'O Messenger of Allah, should I not set her free?' He said, 'Bring her to me.' He asked her, 'Where is Allah', She said, 'He is above the heavens.' He said, 'Who am I?' She said, 'You are the Messenger of Allah.' He said, 'Free her, for she is a believer.' (Muslim and Abu Dawud)

"Whoever does not affirm that Allah is above His heavens, upon His Throne and that He is distinct from His creation; must be forced to repent. If he does not repent, then he must be beheaded and then thrown into a garbage dump, so that the Muslims and the Ahl-Dhimma (the Christians and the Jew) will not suffer from his stinking smell." [Al-Hakim in Al-Marifah].

These verses merely point to the fact that Allah is everywhere but only by His Knowledge, His Seeing, His Hearing and His Power. Only this explanation will allow one to be in compliance with all the other proofs from the Quran, the Sunnah and the Ijma of the companions.

Peace..
I think what those verses are saying is that Allah is distinct.... He is bigger than his creation in the means of.... unlike humans who want people to pay for the wrongs that they commit Allah is merciful and grace giving.... I kind of got that from the verse that says allah is above the heavens.... His acts go far beyond what I can think or imagine... He can do only what I cannot do... and he can do what I can do... but that goes to his acts...
as a verse says in the Bible.... Isaiah 55:7 - 9
7 Let the wicked forsake his way
and the evil man his thoughts.
Let him turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on him,
and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,"
declares the LORD.

9 "As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

but it is not speaking about him being in a particular place....
Reply

One Man Army
04-24-2007, 04:55 PM
and just to fink, it was Guru Nanak jee that proved this to the world when he went to mecca n turned the whole of the kabah..

Guru Sahib slept with his feet toward the kabah, an angry qazi named Jivan kikd Guru sahib and told him 2 move his feet, Guru Sahib humbly askd him to move his feet in a direction where God wasnt, where ever he moved them, there stood the kabah facing Guru Sahibs feet. God resides in all directions, its Gods power-light-noor-jyot that gives life to all existance. with out that jyot-light, it will sees to exist. its like the battries of creation. from the primal void before creation, God remained in constant form and meditation within himself, God then created the light, from which he created the universe. the light prevades in all and in everthing. the light is God. it is the energy that cannot be destroyed, or cannot be created.

wheres my source of evidence on he mecca story?? Bhai Gurdas jees vaars, one of the greatest scholors of the time, whose scriptures where authenticised by the Gurus
Reply

جوري
04-24-2007, 05:01 PM
We have already covered this point here before... putting his feet toward the Kaaba would be equivalent of you putting your feet up on someone's coffee table. In a nutshell it is disrespectful... your Guru didn't make a prolific point of G-D being every where, he was being rude... putting your feet up toward the bathroom isn't as disrespectful as putting your feet up on someone's coffee table... though the ownership of the house belongs to the same person.

peace!
Reply

One Man Army
04-24-2007, 08:31 PM
funny that, all the Qazis, hajjis and maulvis at the time bowed before Guru Nanak and asked for spiritual guidence, they askd for Guru Sahib to leave them with one artifact that they could remember him by...

when Guru Nanak jee moved his feet toward the kabah, the first Qazi came and kicked him, Guru Sahib then said, i have a mouth, and so do you, so stand there and tell me what mistake i have made and i will gladly correct myself, as to Sant Hari Singh jees Katha suggests..

I guess you would have a more accurate account of history then someone who was one of the greatest scholors of that time.
lol yeh i gues Guru Nanak jee had nothing better to do then to visit mecca just to be rude to the muslims there....
Reply

- Qatada -
04-24-2007, 08:45 PM
Originally Posted by ultimate truth
funny that, all the Qazis, hajjis and maulvis at the time bowed before Guru Nanak and asked for spiritual guidence, they askd for Guru Sahib to leave them with one artifact that they could remember him by...

I think all muslims know that we don't bow to no-one but Allaah alone. :) Since it is an act of worship.


when Guru Nanak jee moved his feet toward the kabah, the first Qazi came and kicked him, Guru Sahib then said, i have a mouth, and so do you, so stand there and tell me what mistake i have made and i will gladly correct myself, as to Sant Hari Singh jees Katha suggests..

I wonder why this 'qazi' would kick him for facing his feet to the Ka'abah, yet he doesn't mind bowing to him which is something much more serios?


I guess you would have a more accurate account of history then someone who was one of the greatest scholors of that time.
lol yeh i gues Guru Nanak jee had nothing better to do then to visit mecca just to be rude to the muslims there....

I think the guardians of the Haram in Makkah would be the first to stop this act, and something so shocking as this would be recorded in our history. Much more shocking stuff has been recorded so i don't think something as surprising as this wouldn't be either.
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