white wine vinegar

[Woodrow]

I am serious about this. Since reverting to Islam I have stopped using vinegar, as it is produced from Alcohol. My son-in-law says that only wine-vinegar is haram as it is produced from wine. Yet, except for the synthetic vinegars, which are made from acetyline gas all vinegars are made from alcohol be it from fermented fruits (wine) or from vermented grains (Beer) it is still from alcohol.

Am I corrrect?


It won't hurt my feelings to be told I'm wrong, I miss dill pickles.

[Nawal89]

vinegar made from alchohol? I never knew that.

I know that the prophet peace be upon him used to eat vinegar. One time when he came home and there was nothing to dip his bread with except vinegar he said "The best of dip is vinegar"

My dad uses this thing they call it apple vinegar..maybe you should try that.

[akulion]

Yup vinegars made from wine are Haram...:

Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) was asked about the use of Khamr(wine) from which vinegar is prepared. He said: No (it is prohibited).
Sahih Muslim HadithHadith 4891 Narrated byAnas ibn Malik


BUT other types of vinegar are halal so enjoy :D

Infact the Prophet said about vinegar:

Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) asked his family for condiment. They (the members of his household) said: We have nothing with us but vinegar. He asked for it, he began to eat it, and then said: Vinegar is a good condiment, vinegar is a good condiment.
Sahih Muslim Hadith Hadith 5093 Narrated byJabir ibn Abdullah

------------------------------------

The Prophet (peace be upon him) came in to visit me and asked whether I had anything. When I replied that I had nothing but some dry bread and vinegar he said, "Produce it; a house in which there is vinegar is not devoid of condiments."
Tirmidhi transmitted it, saying this is a hasan gharib tradition.
Al-Tirmidhi Hadith Hadith 4222 Narrated byUmm Hani

--------------------------------

Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) said: The best of condiments or condiment is vinegar.
Sahih Muslim HadithHadith 5091 Narrated byAisha

[Nawal89]

Yup vinegars made from wine are Haram...:

Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) was asked about the use of Khamr(wine) from which vinegar is prepared. He said: No (it is prohibited).
Sahih Muslim HadithHadith 4891 Narrated byAnas ibn Malik


BUT other types of vinegar are halal so enjoy :D

Infact the Prophet said about vinegar:

Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) asked his family for condiment. They (the members of his household) said: We have nothing with us but vinegar. He asked for it, he began to eat it, and then said: Vinegar is a good condiment, vinegar is a good condiment.
Sahih Muslim Hadith Hadith 5093 Narrated byJabir ibn Abdullah

------------------------------------

The Prophet (peace be upon him) came in to visit me and asked whether I had anything. When I replied that I had nothing but some dry bread and vinegar he said, "Produce it; a house in which there is vinegar is not devoid of condiments."
Tirmidhi transmitted it, saying this is a hasan gharib tradition.
Al-Tirmidhi Hadith Hadith 4222 Narrated byUmm Hani

--------------------------------

Allah's Apostle (peace be upon him) said: The best of condiments or condiment is vinegar.
Sahih Muslim HadithHadith 5091 Narrated byAisha

thnx bro for posting up those hadiths. :happy:

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[Malaikah]

:sl:

but how do you know which vinegar is made from wine? :?

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

It should say what type it is on label.:p

:wasalamex

[Daffodil]

this is a complicated issue because it goes into alot more detail then that. i.e if wine was left for ages n turned to vinegar by itself without any one purposely doing it then its ok, but if some one deliberatly uses wine to make vinegar then its not allowed, i read up on it on islam q and a, try that theres loadsssss of info on it.

[Woodrow]

this is a complicated issue because it goes into alot more detail then that. i.e if wine was left for ages n turned to vinegar by itself without any one purposely doing it then its ok, but if some one deliberatly uses wine to make vinegar then its not allowed, i read up on it on islam q and a, try that theres loadsssss of info on it.

Actually you do not have to do anything to wine to keep it from turning into vinegar, just the opposite, you have to kill the yeast to prevent it from turning into vinegar.

Although since their are specific hadiths that do mention the use of vinegar. I will abide by that. It is not necessary for me to understand specificaly why something is Halal , I only need to know if it is. Allah(swt) knows best.

[Andaraawus]

Salam

Whats forbidden in the Quran is khamr. the word khamr denotes anything that takes over your mind and knocks your senses, whether it be wine, weed or even a cigarette. Khamr can be found in the Qur'an 5:90.
With vinegar it doesnt knock your senses nor sends you in a drunken state (sukaraa). Vinegar is fine. wasalams

[learningislam]

:salamext:

The vinegar i use is made from acetic acid---synthetic vinegar.
I dont know about the wine-turned-vinegar ......never heard of it.

To be on the safer end, i think, its better to use...synthetic ones, as one is sure that they are not made from wine.

And Allah swt knows best.

There are many ahadiths related to vinegar....(some mentioned by bro akulion too.........JAzakAllah for that).


'Aayeshah Radiyallahu 'Anha says: "Rasulullah Sallallahu 'Alayhi Wasallam once said: 'What a nice curry vinegar is'".
Chapter 025, Hadith Number 001 (143).Tirmidhi

Hazrat Umme Haani radiyallahu anha (a cousin of Sayyidina Rasoolullah sallallahu alaihe wasallam) says, Rasoolullah sallallahu alaihe wasallam came to me (to my house at the time when Makkah was conquered) and asked if there was something to eat. I replied, ‘Nothing besides dry bread and vinegar.’

Rasoolullah sallallahu alaihe wasallam said, ‘Bring it. That house is not without a curry which has vinegar in it.
Chapter 025, Hadith Number 022 (164). Tirmidhi

I remember, i read a hadith,(if somebody finds it plz share) that the prophet (peace be upon him) ordered to throw away the pots/containers of alcohol.(when it was forbidden) ......and even the utensils which were used for alcohol were discarded......so i was wondering.......wine-turned-vinegar....can it be acceptable?( i think not)
I am not giving a fatwa or something, but if one is not sure about it then its better to avoid........

:wasalamex

[Sanobar]

:salamext:

The vinegar i use is made from acetic acid---synthetic vinegar.:wasalamex

:sl:

same here sis... i use the same.. i neav heard of the wine vinegar...:? i dont think we even get it here in the stores here!

jazakAllah for the hadiths ! :)

[Daffodil]

Actually you do not have to do anything to wine to keep it from turning into vinegar, just the opposite, you have to kill the yeast to prevent it from turning into vinegar.

Although since their are specific hadiths that do mention the use of vinegar. I will abide by that. It is not necessary for me to understand specificaly why something is Halal , I only need to know if it is. Allah(swt) knows best.

thats exactly what i sed, i sed if u leave wine on its own for a while it turns into vinegar by itself, however if wine is left purposely to make vinegar then it is not allowed.

yes u are correct, u dnt need to question what Allah swt and the prophet saw have ruled however sometimes there are more then one hadith and some explain the other better and some proove that the other thing which seemed permissible is infact not due to the way it was made etc....

we are not scholars so its pretty dangerous to seek halal/haram advice from random ppl who copy n paste any random fatwah that they see as relavant...

like i sed there is hords of info on islam qa regarding this which u shud check out, because its not plain n simple like the brothers n sisters on this thread have made out...

such as this....

Question:
Are wine and spirit vinegar halal? Considering all vinegar is made from oxidising a form of alcohol and that normal vinegar is supposed to be halal?

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

Vinegar is a well known basic foodstuff, made from wine of which the composition has changed so that it is no longer sweet but is acidic or sour.

Jaabir (may Allaah be pleased with him) reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “What a good food is vinegar.” (Reported by Muslim, 3/1623)

When wine turns to vinegar by itself, without any deliberate treatment needed for it to be changed, it is permissible to eat, drink and handle it, according to the consensus of the scholars, because of the hadeeth quoted above.

But if the wine has become vinegar because of deliberate treatment, by adding vinegar, onions, salt etc., or by any other process, in this case the scholars (may Allaah have mercy on them) differ as to whether it is permissible.

The Shafi’is, Hanbalis and some of the Maalikis say that it is not permissible to deliberately change wine to vinegar because then it is not pure. The evidence (daleel) for this is the hadeeth of Anas ibn Maalik (may Allaah be pleased with him) who said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was asked whether wine could be changed to be used as vinegar. He said, ‘No.’” (Reported by Muslim).

Abu Talhah (may Allaah be pleased with him) reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was asked about some orphans who had inherited some wine. He said, “Pour it away.” He was asked, “Could they not make it into vinegar?” He said, “No.” (Reported by Muslim).

The reason for this is:

Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted, has commanded us to avoid wine. Keeping it and treating it until it turns into vinegar means handling it and being involved with it by storing it and benefitting from it, and this is not permitted.

It is permitted for a Muslim to buy vinegar from someone who is selling it, unless he realizes or comes to know that it was produced by means of a deliberate process. ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “… There is nothing wrong with a man buying vinegar from the people of the Book, if they sell it, so long as he knows that they did not deliberately process it from wine.” (Al-Mughni, 8/330)

And Allaah knows best.

so as u see bro woodrow, not everything is as black and white.

hope that helped inshallah

[Woodrow]

Shuukrahn Sister Daffodil,

That does help. It also helps to know of all the ahadith that pertain to it. Those are sufficient, so I don't need to know more.

[Rabi'ya]

:sl:

good job i searched - was about to make a smilliar thread.

I thank DAffodil for her post, mashAllah was helpful, but ym question is a little deeper. inshallah someone can answer.

My sis in law said, that a scholar she asked sed, that its permissible only to use vinegar. not malt vinegar or spirit vinegar. The reason the scholar gave was that these types of vinegar are topped up with alcohol.

Now ive done my own research and to be honest on al the websites ive visited i can find no mention of this.

here it says....

Malt vinegar, made by the two-fold fermentation of barley malt or other cereals where starch has been converted to maltose.

Spirit or distilled vinegar, made by the acetic fermentation of dilute distilled alcohol

this shows no sign that extra alcohol is added and indeed just seems to be a different method or different ingredients used.

.............

if someone could clarify,

i understand that it starts life as alcohol, but is then turned into something that is perferctly non-alcoholic...surely this would be permissible?
its like saying that because grapes can be turned into wine, then grapes are not permissible....Maybe im missing the point :?

i checkd out wiki too, but doesnt seem to show anything impermissible there either

i look forward to ur answers :)

:w:

RAbi'ya:rose:

[Yasmine018]

You Can Use VegetaL Vineager

[Daffodil]

rabiyah, sis i wish i cud help u but thats just over complicated for me! im confusedddd.

does any one know much about white wine vinegar n wine vinegar n spirit vinegar? i know there are differences of opinion but that makes it even more confusing, at the moment im just trying to avoid that which is doubtful, ill do some more research wen i have time n will post if there are any new findings!

[meme1]

salam

i wanna know if white wine vinegar is halal or haram? i have noticed white wine vinegar in some sandwiches, and i wish to confirm this fromanyone else. i can also tell all my friends if this is halal or haram. thanks a lot

w/salam

[NoName55]

All vinegar is wine gone sour

[meme1]

so is it halal then?

w/salam

[Woodrow]

salam

i wanna know if white wine vinegar is halal or haram? i have noticed white wine vinegar in some sandwiches, and i wish to confirm this fromanyone else. i can also tell all my friends if this is halal or haram. thanks a lot

w/salam

This is a frequent area of discussion. All vinegars with the exception of artificial vinegars made with acetic acid derived from acetylene are wine vinegars. If properly made they will be no remnants of alcohol in them. This would be vinegars made in the same manner of the vinegars used in the days of the Prophet(PBUH) .

In todays world what is usually called wine vinegar has traces of wine in them, making them haram. About the only easily found halal vinegars will be the distilled vinegars with no flavorings.

[meme1]

so its haram then?

[NoName55]

http://www.vinegarman.com/VinegarMaking.shtml

non-brewed condiment is a cheap alternative to vinegar - essentially, it's a solution of 4% to 8% acetic acid with caramel colouring to turn it brown. Lovely. But at least it explains the taste (or rather, its lack thereof). Proper vinegar is brewed, the acetic acid being produced as a natural byproduct of Acetobacter and beer, wine and cider. This process lets all sorts of interesting flavours creep into the eventual vinegar, and tickling our tongues into tastebud heaven.

:w:

one found at English chippy is definitely not halal.

[NoName55]

BTW. there is no such thing as a halal cheese and tomatoe sandwich where the man is selling ham salad too. just as there is no halal veggie buger at McDonalds

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:

Ruling on vinegar made from wine

Question:

Are wine and spirit vinegar halal? Considering all vinegar is made from oxidising a form of alcohol and that normal vinegar is supposed to be halal?


Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

Vinegar is a well known basic foodstuff, made from wine of which the composition has changed so that it is no longer sweet but is acidic or sour.


Jaabir (may Allaah be pleased with him) reported that the Prophet

(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “What a good food is vinegar.” (Reported by Muslim, 3/1623)

When wine turns to vinegar by itself, without any deliberate treatment needed for it to be changed, it is permissible to eat, drink and handle it, according to the consensus of the scholars, because of the hadeeth quoted above.

But if the wine has become vinegar because of deliberate treatment, by adding vinegar, onions, salt etc., or by any other process, in this case the scholars (may Allaah have mercy on them) differ as to whether it is permissible.



The Shafi’is, Hanbalis and some of the Maalikis say that it is not permissible to deliberately change wine to vinegar because then it is not pure. The evidence (daleel) for this is the hadeeth of Anas ibn Maalik (may Allaah be pleased with him) who said: “The Messenger of Allaah

(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was asked whether wine could be changed to be used as vinegar. He said, ‘No.’” (Reported by Muslim).



Abu Talhah (may Allaah be pleased with him) reported that the Prophet

(peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was asked about some orphans who had inherited some wine. He said, “Pour it away.” He was asked, “Could they not make it into vinegar?” He said, “No.” (Reported by Muslim).


The reason for this is:

Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted, has commanded us to avoid wine. Keeping it and treating it until it turns into vinegar means handling it and being involved with it by storing it and benefitting from it, and this is not permitted.

It is permitted for a Muslim to buy vinegar from someone who is selling it, unless he realizes or comes to know that it was produced by means of a deliberate process. ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “… There is nothing wrong with a man buying vinegar from the people of the Book, if they sell it, so long as he knows that they did not deliberately process it from wine.” (Al-Mughni, 8/330)



And Allaah knows best.


(Bidaayat al-Mujtahid li Ibn Rushd, 1/461; Kashshaaf al-Qinaa’ li’l-Bahwati, 1/187; Fath al-Qadeer li Ibn al-Hammaam, 8/166; al-Majmoo’ li’l-Nawawi, 1/225; al-Mughni li Ibn Qudaamah, 8/319).

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