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Pk_#2
04-19-2007, 10:27 PM
Peace be upon those who follow guidance :)

'You decided to spill my blood'

James Sturcke
Thursday April 19, 2007
Guardian Unlimited



This image from NBC shows Virginia Tech gunman Cho Seung-hui in part of a package apparently mailed to the network on Monday, April 16 between Cho's first and second bursts of gunfire on the Virginia Tech campus. Photograph: NBC/AP

The Virginia campus killer, Cho Seung-Hui, sent a package, time stamped 9.01am at the post office, to NBC News in Manhattan, containing what the television channel called a "multimedia manifesto".It contained a DVD with 27 video clips, an audio clip and 43 still images, an NBC News correspondent said. There was also a 23-page printout, detailing his grievances.

Continue reading here...

The video :exhausted : http://www.guardian.co.uk/video/page/0,,2061074,00.html
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Muezzin
04-20-2007, 12:17 AM
What an utter nutter.
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FatimaAsSideqah
04-20-2007, 12:20 AM
:sl:

What a sick man..the police should have caught him before the massacre! :enough!:

:w:
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Keltoi
04-20-2007, 12:28 AM
I think the media made a mistake releasing this stuff right after the incident in question. I know its their job to feed info to the public, but it seemed a little too soon.
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Muezzin
04-20-2007, 12:46 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
I think the media made a mistake releasing this stuff right after the incident in question. I know its their job to feed info to the public, but it seemed a little too soon.
It's been doing the rounds on the Internet today anyway.

This guy had it all planned out... Why didn't he channel such intelligence into something constructive, like, say, his degree?
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Keltoi
04-20-2007, 12:56 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
It's been doing the rounds on the Internet today anyway.

This guy had it all planned out... Why didn't he channel such intelligence into something constructive, like, say, his degree?
Well, there was only one copy it was mailed to NBC news. They could have sit on the tape and allowed a grieving period for the parents and friends. You are right though, this seemed to be a fairly bright kid with mental problems. Too bad someone didn't help him in time to stop this.
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syilla
04-20-2007, 02:25 AM
Alhamdullillah the 5 malaysian students are safe...
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yigiter187
04-20-2007, 10:29 AM
ıt ıs a big scandal ı think...there were symptoms of this massacre a few days ago they say...ı mean this massacre could be hindered...
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ummAbdillah
04-20-2007, 10:50 AM
salaam
I wonder what drove him to do such an evil act?:?
wa salaam
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Umar001
04-20-2007, 10:51 AM
What? Look:

In further clips, Cho talked of dying "like Jesus Christ".

Well it would have been interesting if a Muslim told him before his death that Jesus didn't die according to Islam.

He looks very different to the other pic. I wanna see the videos man
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Muslim Knight
04-20-2007, 11:06 AM
From the pic I can see that this guy's been playing too much CounterStrike.

I remember reading the news several years back about a Korean teenager who died after having playing online game in a cybercafe. He went 48 hours straight, non-stop. The cybercafe owner went to his cubicle after suspecting that the kid dozed off at 4 am, only to discover a corpse instead of a customer.

Where did the Korean Cho obtain those guns, anyway? Is it fairly easy in the US for some guy to walk into a firearms shop and buy guns? Isn't there US law prohibiting foreigners without proper permit to buy or own firearms?
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Keltoi
04-20-2007, 12:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Knight
From the pic I can see that this guy's been playing too much CounterStrike.

I remember reading the news several years back about a Korean teenager who died after having playing online game in a cybercafe. He went 48 hours straight, non-stop. The cybercafe owner went to his cubicle after suspecting that the kid dozed off at 4 am, only to discover a corpse instead of a customer.

Where did the Korean Cho obtain those guns, anyway? Is it fairly easy in the US for some guy to walk into a firearms shop and buy guns? Isn't there US law prohibiting foreigners without proper permit to buy or own firearms?
Cho was a U.S. citizen without a felony conviction, so he could purchase a firearm.
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Muslim Knight
04-20-2007, 12:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
Cho was a U.S. citizen without a felony conviction, so he could purchase a firearm.
Sorry I didn't know that. I read that he grew up in South Korea and assumed he was a Korean and not US citizen.

What shocked me is how lenient US firearms laws that a university undergraduate could make such purchase.

In my country, God help us if the police finds something so much as a longknife in the boot of a car. That's enough to invoke Dangerous Weapons Act.
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Keltoi
04-20-2007, 01:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Knight
Sorry I didn't know that. I read that he grew up in South Korea and assumed he was a Korean and not US citizen.

What shocked me is how lenient US firearms laws that a university undergraduate could make such purchase.

In my country, God help us if the police finds something so much as a longknife in the boot of a car. That's enough to invoke Dangerous Weapons Act.
The U.S. is very different on the issue of firearms. It is a constitutional right. As long as you don't have a felony conviction, are a U.S. citizen, and over the age of 18, you can purchase a firearm. This incident might lead to a mental evaluation before a firearm purchase, but I doubt it, it would take too much money and would probably be deemed unconstitutional.
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Pygoscelis
04-20-2007, 06:36 PM
What was his past? Was he just a random nutter or did he have some sort of agenda and terrorist like cause. Check out this quote.

"Do you know what it feels to be spit on your face and to have trash shoved down your throat? Do you know what it feels like to dig your own grave? Do you know what it feels like to have throat slashed from ear to ear? Do you know what it feels like to be torched alive?"

He is speaking of people who've been through this? Had he?

His likening of himself to Jesus Christ is also interesting.

I'm no fan of Jesus and what he represents, as most here know, but I don't recall Jesus ever going on an insane homocidal shooting spree. In fact didn't Jesus preach about turning the other cheek? How did this guy think he was in anyway like Jesus?
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smile
04-20-2007, 06:48 PM
I felt sorry for the ppl who died but when I watched the tape, I thought maybe the students at VT might have been racist towards him because he was troubled. either that or he has mental problems.

I don't know why Korea is going to all that trouble to have so much sympathy
because its not like they did it.
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Keltoi
04-20-2007, 07:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by smile
I felt sorry for the ppl who died but when I watched the tape, I thought maybe the students at VT might have been racist towards him because he was troubled. either that or he has mental problems.

I don't know why Korea is going to all that trouble to have so much sympathy
because its not like they did it.
The South Korean community in the U.S. was afraid of a backlash, which I don't believe they had any reason to be concerned about. As for VT being racist, that is completely ridiculous. It is a very diverse campus.
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Keltoi
04-20-2007, 07:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
What was his past? Was he just a random nutter or did he have some sort of agenda and terrorist like cause. Check out this quote.

"Do you know what it feels to be spit on your face and to have trash shoved down your throat? Do you know what it feels like to dig your own grave? Do you know what it feels like to have throat slashed from ear to ear? Do you know what it feels like to be torched alive?"

He is speaking of people who've been through this? Had he?

His likening of himself to Jesus Christ is also interesting.

I'm no fan of Jesus and what he represents, as most here know, but I don't recall Jesus ever going on an insane homocidal shooting spree. In fact didn't Jesus preach about turning the other cheek? How did this guy think he was in anyway like Jesus?
He was just taking on the role of the victim and martyr.
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faisalsaeed
04-20-2007, 07:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
The U.S. is very different on the issue of firearms. It is a constitutional right. As long as you don't have a felony conviction, are a U.S. citizen, and over the age of 18, you can purchase a firearm.
Isn't it a bit late for them to take such action. how many times has it already happened in US (schools shooting)? and they still don't have a law?
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Keltoi
04-20-2007, 07:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by faisalsaeed
Isn't it a bit late for them to take such action. how many times has it already happened in US (schools shooting)? and they still don't have a law?
What law are you proposing? A gun ban is unconstitutional.
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Chechnya
04-20-2007, 08:58 PM
A gun ban is unconstitutional.
lets get ready for some more school shootings then
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Pk_#2
04-20-2007, 09:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Chechnya
lets get ready for some more school shootings then
I don't feel guns can make situations any better, but ^^ :-\
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Keltoi
04-20-2007, 09:14 PM
A gun ban would only make sure criminals had firearms with victims who don't have the right to own them. Gun violence has decreased in the U.S., but school violence has increased. That points to a problem in society that goes far beyond gun availability.
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Pk_#2
04-20-2007, 11:13 PM
*sigh* :laugh:
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جوري
04-20-2007, 11:19 PM
http://www.islamicboard.com/general-chat/41078-z.html
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Pk_#2
04-20-2007, 11:22 PM
barakAllah fiki (May Allah bless you)

Peace be upon those who follow guidance.

*sleepy*!
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Al_Imaan
04-20-2007, 11:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by |)431)M1
I don't feel guns can make situations any better, but ^^ :-\
word...wish every new that.....
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جوري
04-20-2007, 11:29 PM
I think he wouldn't have been as effective walking around with a knife as he was with a gun... seems only outlaws carry guns...

"The law " to carry guns was made to protect you should the king of England come invading your quarters, not to gun down random civilians..
People should in the very least be given a psyche consult before getting one of those....
What an ugly frightening world we live in!
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Abdul Fattah
04-20-2007, 11:32 PM
I'm a little bit saddend by society approach on this.
Did this guy have mental problems? Most likely yes.
But it's very cheap and easy to just wrap it up as just that. I think there's more to it then that. Mental problems alone don't make a guy do this. This guy had a motivation. It might not be clear to us, but that doesn't mean he didn't have one. It's like people use mental problems as a sort of magical wand that solves the equation. No, mental problem causes instability, and would explain why he was motivated by stuff that would not fail to motivate ordinary people. The question on our minds should not be, can we establish that he was a nutter, and wrap it all up? The question we should ask is, what was his motivation? What drives a person to this point, where he thinks that this is his only way out?
Oh btw, I'm not commenting on anyone here specific, I didn't even read the replies here. I'm just ranting about what the media and the peopel in my environment make of it.
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*charisma*
04-20-2007, 11:52 PM
Assalamu Alaikum

An article said he was diagnosed with autism. The man that sold him the gun said that since he was a cut, clean, educated-looking college kid, he didn't have any suspicions of him attempting to do something wrong. They had his scripts up, I read one of them and half of the other one. Disturbing.

I think he may have been molested or something as a kid and that scarred him badly amongst other issues. However this is just my own theory from reading his work. Allahu A'lem. May Allah protect us from such people ameen.

fi aman Allah
w'salaam
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جوري
04-20-2007, 11:55 PM
There is no way he could have suffered from Autism... I can go for Asperger's syndrome but autistic people, are severely mentally challenged and unable to make it to college.. who ever said this is probably making an excuse for him...
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Keltoi
04-21-2007, 12:10 AM
It was his great-aunt who stated he was diagnosed with autism before he left South Korea, I have no way of knowing the validity of the claim. I'm not sure what it has to do with anything, but his great-aunt described him as an "idiot".
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جوري
04-21-2007, 12:14 AM
I can understand, that it is difficult for his family... I am pretty sure people want to crucify them while looking for someone to blame for this senseless tragedy... but autistic he wasn't! their IQ is usually around (IQs from 20-35), that isn't even fit for some basic vocational training let alone a 4 year college!
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Keltoi
04-21-2007, 12:15 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
I can understand, that it is difficult for his family... I am pretty sure people want to crucify them while looking for someone to blame for this senseless tragedy... but autistic he wasn't! their IQ is usually around (IQs from 20-35), that isn't even fit for some basic vocational training let alone a 4 year college!
Yes, the only the thing I noticed from the videos was a slight speech impediment. Otherwise he seemed as intelligent as any average college student.
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جوري
04-21-2007, 12:19 AM
he has classic Anti-social behavior -- probably most people think of this as someone who is shy an (avoidant type) a watered down version--but they are criminals, if he were younger it would be equivlant of Oppositional Defiant Disorder... just the sort that likes to hurt people and animals... a sick individual, but shouldn't be used as an excuse to justify his criminal behavior... Too late now though.. he broke so many families-- hope he rots in hell!
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SirZubair
04-21-2007, 12:30 AM
Another one bites the dust.

In this case, another one bit the bullet.
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Abdul Fattah
04-21-2007, 12:30 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
There is no way he could have suffered from Autism... I can go for Asperger's syndrome but autistic people, are severely mentally challenged and unable to make it to college.. who ever said this is probably making an excuse for him...
Selam aleykum
please don't judge all authistic people alike. Authism is a broad spectrum
Also I wouldn't say they are mentally challanged.
Authistic people are mentally different, the "challenge" lies in trying to fit in with the rest of the world, not in their own minds.

This double standard is very frustrating:
"Oh look, he just solved this mathematical equation with ease, must be because he's smart."

"Oh look, he behaves differently and has a different approach on how he interacts with people, must be because he's mentally challenged.
"

As for the shooter...
Allah subhana wa ta'ala knows it and we do not, so we shouldn't speculate.
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جوري
04-21-2007, 12:37 AM
I am not judging akhi.. I am speaking from my studies... people who appear Autistic but have "normal intelligence" are diagnosed with Aperger syndrome not austism!
http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/aswhatisit.html

People with Austism might have one truly genuis trait , and the term applied to them is autistic savant (historically described as idiot savant).. I didn't make up those terms.. and you can do any web search to validate the veracity of that... But they are not capable of making it to college... otherwise they wouldn't be named Autistic but something else... This by no mean is meant as an Insult... they are special people, if the term "challenged" seems callous-- my humble apologies!
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*charisma*
04-21-2007, 12:51 AM
Assalamu Alaikum

It said in the article:

Autism is a neurodevelopmental disorder that encompasses a broad range of symptoms frequently including impaired social interaction and communication, as well as obsessive interests and behavior. Autism remains a topic of heated debate in the scientific community, where little is understood about its cause.
I googled it and google said:

Autism is a form of pervasive developmental disorder with an unknown origin. It can range from high functioning to severe in nature. Symptoms are a marked lack of awareness of the feelings of others and little or no social interaction or communications with others. Children with autism are often described as "within themselves" and may seem to avoid affection and love. Many children with autism will not talk, are self-isolating and self-stimulating.
Autism is a disorder of brain function that appears early in life, generally before the age of three. Children with autism have problems with social interaction, communication, imagination and behavior. Autistic traits persist into adulthood, but vary in severity. Some adults with autism function well, earning college degrees and living independently. Others never develop the skills of daily living, and may be incorrectly diagnosed with a variety of psychiatric illnesses. The cause is unknown.
Asperger's syndrom is similar to that, I think, isn't it?

I think he may have had some form of one of those two. Allahu a'lem.

fi aman allah
w'salaam
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Abdul Fattah
04-21-2007, 12:54 AM
Thanks for your reply, isn't aspergers syndrome seen as a form of authism? Anyway, I care little for the defenitions western psychologists come up with, I know who I am and what I can and can't do, and that is sufficient to me. And the truth is, little of this is certain at this point and it's mostly speculation and assumptions.
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جوري
04-21-2007, 12:57 AM
Asperger is much like Autism except they have "normal intelligence" an Autisic that earns a college degree has Asperger's synd. not austism at that rate....but the social aspects aren't well developed-- they tend to have flat affect, be socially withdrawn, and everything else noted in the articles... Most people with Autism have low IQ... some can excel in one particular field... for instance be really good with numbers, or dates, or music etc.. thus they are named ( Autistic Savant)!
:w:
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جوري
04-21-2007, 01:00 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Fattah
Thanks for your reply, isn't aspergers syndrome seen as a form of authism? Anyway, I care little for the defenitions western psychologists come up with, I know who I am and what I can and can't do, and that is sufficient to me. And the truth is, little of this is certain at this point and it's mostly speculation and assumptions.
Why are you speaking of this in terms of you and your capabilities?? if someone has dx'd you with either syndrome... then I suggest you change doctors in a heart beat... since you are neither socially withdrawn nor intellectually "special"--- let's put it this way... a true autistic wouldn't have feelings toward any of the above written!
:w:
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Abdul Fattah
04-21-2007, 01:15 AM
Well like I said, I don't care much for the definitions western psychology comes up with. And I don't care whether or not they apply to me. At least not enough to go trough the trouble of testing.
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*charisma*
04-21-2007, 01:21 AM
Assalamu Alaikum

May it not apply to you ekhi.

May Allah grant shifaa to any brothers and sisters w/ an abnormality and protect us from developing one ameen!

fi aman allah
w'salaam
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Abdul Fattah
04-21-2007, 01:24 AM
You know, there's actually a broad community of people who consider aspergersyndrome a gift instead of a disease :)
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جوري
04-21-2007, 01:24 AM
only a psychiatrist not a psychologist can diagnose someone with either Autism or Asperger syndrome... a licensed MD... not a PhD... I realize that might sound harsh, but that is the reality of it... someone with a PhD in Anatomy can teach you pre-clinical anatomy... an "anatomist" with an MD would be considered a surgeon, thus able to operate and diagnose a pt.

I don't know you personally... but from your interactions on the forum, I can tell you suffer from neither syndrome!

a post has upset you already indicates that your emotions are in tact.. you don't have flat affect or are socially withdrawn to Qualify for Asperger and certainly not a more severe syndrome like Autism which would hinder you from most human interactions that you are capable of on this level ...
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جوري
04-21-2007, 01:31 AM
I sincerely don't believe you to be suffering from either syndrome... most people with any sort of "special" problems are actually very happy people ( incapable of displaying what you just have with us here)... it is only people around them that are unhappy dealing or seeing their challenges or are afraid of how others judge them!...

the ones with the affliction are usually in their own world, and don't understand life from our stand point or are capable of that sort of abstraction... On a mental level I give you a clean bill of health--- unless someone else is writing this on your behalf? Which would still mean you are clever enough to manipulate someone to articulate your feelings on a forum...

I don't know who diagnosed you with what-- but it ain't Austism or Asperger ... by the way many believe that Bill gates has Asperger syndrome... I just thought I'd throw that in there!
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*charisma*
04-21-2007, 01:33 AM
Assalamu Alaikum

You know, there's actually a broad community of people who consider aspergersyndrome a gift instead of a disease
anything and everything from Allah subhana wa ta'ala to His obedient slave is a gift. It enriches us with qualities we may have not had before that may help us increase our iman and learn more about our strengths and weaknesses in life.

Inshallah no one has any illness that to which point it would conflict between him and his duties to Allah.

fi aman Allah
w'salaam
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جوري
04-21-2007, 01:36 AM
indeed I agree with you sis....
I have always considered the special people the lucky ones... Allah knows best.. they are happy in their world, and they are not accountable on the day of judgement...
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جوري
04-21-2007, 01:46 AM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7899821/
thought I'd throw this in here.. Also add that Issac Newton and Einstein supposedly suffered from Asperger... however we are not sure.... speculations at this point considering they are deceased!

:w:
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Abdul Fattah
04-21-2007, 02:03 AM
Thanks for all the information sister
But like I said, I disagree with western psychology and hence don't care enough to see whether or not I actually fall under whatever definition they have come up with. I know what I am capable of and what my limitations are, and I probably know that a lot better then any psychiatrist or psychologist would be able to tell me anyday a week or twice on Sunday.
So thanks but, quite frankly I don,'t care.

Maybe we should get back on topic now inshaAllah
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Pk_#2
04-21-2007, 01:05 PM
*back on topic*
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Muezzin
04-21-2007, 01:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by |)431)M1
*back on topic*
Quite. This isn't a psychiatrist's office.

Unfortunately.
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