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Mohsin
08-02-2005, 05:48 PM
Assalamualaikum!

Does anbody here have any tips as to how to give da'wah to a sikh?
Or is anyone here a revert from Sikhism?
Or does anyone know of any such contradictions or scientific errors in the Sikh teachings?
Is there any good site for these questions if none of you know the answer?

Basically i have a sikh friend who recently has taken a real disliking towards Islam when he found out according to Islam, only Muslims go to heaven and all other followers of other religions go to hell. He thinks all religions are right and basically they are all a different form of discipline, for example some people pray 5 times a day to discipline themselves and be good people, some people go to church, some people grow their hair long like sikhs. But basically all are different paths to God

The basic argument i have agaisnt HIS views are, that Sikhism is contradicting itself big time. How can all religions be right, seeing as religions like Christianity Judaism and Islam all believe the whole purpose of their life revolves round the fact we will e going to heaven/hell, whilst religions like Sikhsim n Hinduism believe in reincarnation
Christianity believes Jesus is Son of God, whilst Islam emphatically says the oppisite, saing it is blasphemous to say this
Hinduism says there are lots of Gods and for example Judaism says theres one God. How can all these religions be right, its as if your saying God said one thing to one set of epople, and said something totall different to another set, ie saying he is lieing and that just can't be

Anyway these are my views regarding his views, but i'm not too sure if these are the correct Sikh beliefs
Please can someone comment or help me on this topic, or provide a decent site about this
Reply

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Muezzin
08-02-2005, 06:21 PM
:sl:

I'm not in the best position to give specific advice because I'm not a scholar and I've never been in that position. However, Muslims are taught to be tolerant of other faiths.

In my humble view, people are free to follow whatever they choose. I'm fortunate to be Muslim and man do I know it. :brother:

:w:
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
08-02-2005, 09:15 PM
:sl: Moss,
In your Dawah you should focus on explaining Islam rather than attacking other religions via contradictions, errors is scriptures etc. You should focus on the beauty of Islam.

However, there is the following link with some info:
http://www.irf.net/irf/comparativere...wahtosikhs.htm

Originally Posted by Moss
Basically i have a sikh friend who recently has taken a real disliking towards Islam when he found out according to Islam, only Muslims go to heaven and all other followers of other religions go to hell. He thinks all religions are right and basically they are all a different form of discipline, for example some people pray 5 times a day to discipline themselves and be good people, some people go to church, some people grow their hair long like sikhs. But basically all are different paths to God
This is illogical, only one path can be correct, as I explained here:
http://www.islamicboard.com/showpost...4&postcount=49

How can all these religions be right, its as if your saying God said one thing to one set of epople, and said something totall different to another set, ie saying he is lieing and that just can't be
you're absoloutely correct.

To learn about sikhism, I suggest looking up Sikhism at Wikipedia.

:w:
Reply

Abu Zakariya
08-02-2005, 10:08 PM
There is a good lecture about this by Bilal Philips on www.lightuponlight.com called "The way is one"
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Khattab
08-03-2005, 12:05 AM
:sl: No need to insult his religion just explain to him the beleifs in Islam and the purpose of them.

Sûrah al An'am 6:109
"Revile not those unto whom they pray besides Allah lest they wrongfully revile Allah through ignorance. Thus unto every nation have We made their deeds seem fair. Then unto their Lord is their return, and He will tell them what they used to do."

Some followers of Guru Nanak after his death claimed him to be muslim, others claimed him to be a hindu and a new religion of Sikhism was founded through his teachings, inshallah the following two articles below will give you some insight into it:

Article 1 Click Here

Article 2 Click Here

:w:
Reply

Khoza
05-16-2006, 05:30 PM
Originally Posted by Moss
Basically i have a sikh friend who recently has taken a real disliking towards Islam when he found out according to Islam, only Muslims go to heaven and all other followers of other religions go to hell. He thinks all religions are right and basically they are all a different form of discipline, for example some people pray 5 times a day to discipline themselves and be good people, some people go to church, some people grow their hair long like sikhs. But basically all are different paths to God
This is true; Sikhism accepts the facts that there are many paths to God and it regards itself as a simple path. This is shown when Guru Nanak went to Mecca and the Qazis and the Mullas crowded around the Guru and asked "Who is the superior of the two, the Hindu or the Muslim?" The Guru replied,"Without good deeds, both will repent. The superiority lies in deeds and not in mere creeds." This shows that a good Hindu or a good Muslim would be rewarded in the court of God.
Reply

Khoza
05-16-2006, 05:55 PM
Originally Posted by Moss
Or does anyone know of any such contradictions or scientific errors in the Sikh teachings?
Actually the Guru Granth Sahib Ji is surprisingly coherant with scientific facts.
Sikhs believe that God created the whole universe. Earth while being in the universe is a creation of God and all the life on earth is a creation of God. It does not matter to a Sikh whether earth was created in seven days or it evolved in 4 billion years. If the earth was created then God created the earth and if the earth was evolved then God created the evolution of the earth. In addition, Guru Granth Sahib (The Holy Scripture of Sikhs) states remarkable information about the universe, galaxies, stars, planets and the moons. None of the information written in the scripture contradicts with the scientific facts. Furthermore, nothing in Guru Granth Sahib can be disproved with the help of science. However, scientific facts support the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Guru Nanak debated alot with his Muslim companions and in Nanak's time, Baghdad was a centre of Muslim culture - it was home to pirs and sufi fakirs. Guru Nanak stayed in Baghdad for four months and interacted with the holy men there, one of whom was Bahlol. Guru Nanak sang of the infinity of God and His infinite creation. Bahlol said that the Qur'an had mentioned seven earths and seven heavens only. Guru Nanak urged that the universe was not confined to seven earths and seven heavens but had millions and millions of planets and worlds, these facts were scientifically supported many hundreds of years later by western scientists.
Reply

jss
05-16-2006, 05:56 PM
Originally Posted by Moss
Assalamualaikum!

Does anbody here have any tips as to how to give da'wah to a sikh?
Or is anyone here a revert from Sikhism?
Or does anyone know of any such contradictions or scientific errors in the Sikh teachings?
Is there any good site for these questions if none of you know the answer?

Basically i have a sikh friend who recently has taken a real disliking towards Islam when he found out according to Islam, only Muslims go to heaven and all other followers of other religions go to hell. He thinks all religions are right and basically they are all a different form of discipline, for example some people pray 5 times a day to discipline themselves and be good people, some people go to church, some people grow their hair long like sikhs. But basically all are different paths to God

The basic argument i have agaisnt HIS views are, that Sikhism is contradicting itself big time. How can all religions be right, seeing as religions like Christianity Judaism and Islam all believe the whole purpose of their life revolves round the fact we will e going to heaven/hell, whilst religions like Sikhsim n Hinduism believe in reincarnation
Christianity believes Jesus is Son of God, whilst Islam emphatically says the oppisite, saing it is blasphemous to say this
Hinduism says there are lots of Gods and for example Judaism says theres one God. How can all these religions be right, its as if your saying God said one thing to one set of epople, and said something totall different to another set, ie saying he is lieing and that just can't be

Anyway these are my views regarding his views, but i'm not too sure if these are the correct Sikh beliefs
Please can someone comment or help me on this topic, or provide a decent site about this
Why are you attacking our faith?? Would you like it if Sikhs done the same?? Suppose not. Research Sikhi before you start making falsifying claims of contradiction.

peace
Reply

jss
05-16-2006, 05:57 PM
As for a site/s-

www.sikhnet.com

www.allaboutsikhs.com
Reply

chacha_jalebi
05-16-2006, 06:07 PM
salaam

in 6 form Allah (swt) showed d lite 2 1 of me sikh mateys n she converted :)

bcos she sed dat guru nanak sed islamic tins lik such as Allah has no father, son or bros, also in a book var majh, guru nanak tlks bout d islamic prayers & how dey r d rite 1s, n she dint agree wit certain stuf in d religion, but neway lol she converted 2 islam :)

i tink 1 can ask a sikh d position of guru nanak, cos he did "apparently" go 4 hajj, n he sed quite a lot of islamic stuff, anyway Allah (swt) knows best
Reply

ISDhillon
05-16-2006, 06:12 PM
Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
salaam

in 6 form Allah (swt) showed d lite 2 1 of me sikh mateys n she converted :)

bcos she sed dat guru nanak sed islamic tins lik such as Allah has no father, son or bros, also in a book var majh, guru nanak tlks bout d islamic prayers & how dey r d rite 1s, n she dint agree wit certain stuf in d religion, but neway lol she converted 2 islam :)

i tink 1 can ask a sikh d position of guru nanak, cos he did "apparently" go 4 hajj, n he sed quite a lot of islamic stuff, anyway Allah (swt) knows best

Many people convert from different faiths canada is quite a poular destination where many muslim girls get hitched to sikhs and they become sikhs too, there an actual discussion on the internet I think its called asiapacific.net and anyways it was basically pakistanis who had gone abroad and become sikhs cos after partition they were forced to embrace islam but the sikh roots were too strong so with gurus kirpa they found their way back to their true home, i suppose thats the way it goes in life,

anyways enjoy your jalibees,:giggling:

ISDhillon
Reply

Mohsin
05-16-2006, 06:14 PM
Hey guys that post by me was a looong loong time ago. I apologise if it caused offence, but the bro's corrected me above and advised me to focus on islam rather than sikhism, which is what i chose to do

Again apologies if it came accross wrong
Reply

chacha_jalebi
05-16-2006, 06:16 PM
lol u enjoy em aswell :p

yee i know matey ppl convert 2diff religions n so on, lik in d uk, ders loads of ppl convertin frm islam - sikhism, sikhism 2 islam, it happens ye
Reply

ISDhillon
05-16-2006, 06:17 PM
Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
lol u enjoy em aswell :p

yee i know matey ppl convert 2diff religions n so on, lik in d uk, ders loads of ppl convertin frm islam - sikhism, sikhism 2 islam, it happens ye

i like gulaab jamans and raasmalaaii mmmmmmmmh!:)
Reply

jss
05-16-2006, 06:19 PM
Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
salaam

in 6 form Allah (swt) showed d lite 2 1 of me sikh mateys n she converted :)

bcos she sed dat guru nanak sed islamic tins lik such as Allah has no father, son or bros, also in a book var majh, guru nanak tlks bout d islamic prayers & how dey r d rite 1s, n she dint agree wit certain stuf in d religion, but neway lol she converted 2 islam :)

i tink 1 can ask a sikh d position of guru nanak, cos he did "apparently" go 4 hajj, n he sed quite a lot of islamic stuff, anyway Allah (swt) knows best

Your friend obviously had very little gian (knowledge) on Sikhi

You mean in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang.141

सलोकु मः १ ॥
salok mehlaa 1.
Shalok, First Mehl:


ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵਣੁ ਮੁਸਕਲੁ ਜਾ ਹੋਇ ਤਾ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥
मुसलमाणु कहावणु मुसकलु जा होइ ता मुसलमाणु कहावै ॥
musalmaan kahaavan muskal jaa ho-ay taa musalmaan kahaavai.
It is difficult to be called a Muslim; if one is truly a Muslim, then he may be called one.


ਅਵਲਿ ਅਉਲਿ ਦੀਨੁ ਕਰਿ ਮਿਠਾ ਮਸਕਲ ਮਾਨਾ ਮਾਲੁ ਮੁਸਾਵੈ ॥
अवलि अउलि दीनु करि मिठा मसकल माना मालु मुसावै ॥
aval a-ul deen kar mithaa maskal maanaa maal musaavai.
First, let him savor the religion of the Prophet as sweet; then, let his pride of his possessions be scraped away.


ਹੋਇ ਮੁਸਲਿਮੁ ਦੀਨ ਮੁਹਾਣੈ ਮਰਣ ਜੀਵਣ ਕਾ ਭਰਮੁ ਚੁਕਾਵੈ ॥
होइ मुसलिमु दीन मुहाणै मरण जीवण का भरमु चुकावै ॥
ho-ay muslim deen muhaanai maran jeevan kaa bharam chukhaavai.
Becoming a true Muslim, a disciple of the faith of Mohammed, let him put aside the delusion of death and life.


ਰਬ ਕੀ ਰਜਾਇ ਮੰਨੇ ਸਿਰ ਉਪਰਿ ਕਰਤਾ ਮੰਨੇ ਆਪੁ ਗਵਾਵੈ ॥
रब की रजाइ मंने सिर उपरि करता मंने आपु गवावै ॥
rab kee rajaa-ay mannay sir upar kartaa mannay aap gavaavai.
As he submits to God's Will, and surrenders to the Creator, he is rid of selfishness and conceit.


ਤਉ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਰਬ ਜੀਆ ਮਿਹਰੰਮਤਿ ਹੋਇ ਤ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥੧॥
तउ नानक सरब जीआ मिहरमति होइ त मुसलमाणु कहावै ॥१॥
ta-o naanak sarab jee-aa mihramat ho-ay ta musalmaan kahaavai. ||1||
And when, O Nanak, he is merciful to all beings, only then shall he be called a Muslim. ||1||

As for any suggestion of Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj being Muslim or performing Hajj or even Hindu.

Bhai Gurdas Ji, Var on Pannaa 1


puCn gl eImwn dI kwzI mulW iekTy hoeI]
vfw sWg vrqwieAw lK n sky kudriq koeI]
puCx Kol ikqwb nUM vfw ihMdU kI muslmwnoeI]
bwbw AwKy hwzIAW SuB AmlW bwJo dovyN roeI]
ihMdU muslmwn doie drgih AMdr lYx n FoeI]
kcw rMg kusuMB kw pwxI DoqY iQr n rhoeI]
krn bKIlI Awp ivc rwm rhIm kuQwie KloeI]
rwh SYqwnI dunIAw goeI ]óó]


pushhan gal eemaan dhee kaazee mulaa(n) eikat(h)ae hoee||
vaddaa saa(n)g varathaaeiaa lakh n sakae kudharath koee||
pushhan khol kithaab noo(n) vaddaa hi(n)dhoo kee musalamaanoee||
baabaa aakhae haazeeaaa(n) shubh amalaa(n) baajho dhovae(n) roee||
hi(n)dhoo musalamaan dhoe dharagehi a(n)dhar lain n dtoee||
kachaa ra(n)g kusu(n)bh kaa paanee dhhothai thhir n rehoee||
karan bakheelee aap vich raam reheem kuthhaae khaloee||
raah shaithaanee dhuneeaa goee ||aa||


Qazi and maulvis got together and began discussing religion.
A great fantasy has been created and no one could understood its mystery.
They asked Baba Nanak to open and search in his book whether Hindu is great or the Muslim.
Baba replied to the pilgrim hajis, that, without good deeds both will have to weep and wail.
Only by being a Hindu or a Muslim one can not get accepted in the court of the Lord.
As the colour of safflower is impermanent and is washed away in water, likewise the colours of religiosity are also temporary.
(Followers of both the religions) In their expositions, denounce Ram and Rahim.
The whole of the world is following the ways of Satan.
Reply

Khoza
05-16-2006, 06:23 PM
Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
i tink 1 can ask a sikh d position of guru nanak, cos he did "apparently" go 4 hajj, n he sed quite a lot of islamic stuff, anyway Allah (swt) knows best
But Guru Nanak was not a Muslim, at Mecca the Qazis and the Mullas crowded around the Guru and asked whether he was a Muslim or a Hindu? The Guru replied that he was neither of the two. Plus he also made many visits to important Hindu places of worship to spread his message.

Ps. Im in sixth form now too
Reply

Khoza
05-16-2006, 06:28 PM
Originally Posted by Moss
Hey guys that post by me was a looong loong time ago. I apologise if it caused offence, but the bro's corrected me above and advised me to focus on islam rather than sikhism, which is what i chose to do
Only focus on Islam eh??
Whys that??
Anyway i enjoy reading about all religions so that i find them easier to accept in an ever increasing diverse society, when im older i plan on reading the Koran
Reply

ISDhillon
05-16-2006, 06:30 PM
Originally Posted by Khoza
But Guru Nanak was not a Muslim, at Mecca the Qazis and the Mullas crowded around the Guru and asked whether he was a Muslim or a Hindu? The Guru replied that he was neither of the two. Plus he also made many visits to important Hindu places of worship to spread his message.

Ps. Im in sixth form now too

And buddhist places :http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php?t...Nanak_in_Tibet

:)
Reply

jss
05-16-2006, 06:32 PM
And to mention Hindu places:)

GURU NANAK AT HARDWAR

Hardwar is one of the Hindu pilgrimage places on the bank of river Ganges. It was a Baisakhi day and the pilgrims got up early in the morning and bathed in the river. As the sun came out, they started throwing water towards the sun. When Guru Nanak asked them as to what they were doing, one priest replied,"We are offering water to our dead ancestors in the region of Sun to quench their thirst."

Upon this the Guru started throwing water towards the west. The pilgrims laughed and asked what he was doing. The Guru replied,"I am watering my fields in my village in the Punjab." The priest asked,"How can your water reach such a distance?" The Guru retorted,"How far your ancestors are from here?" One of them replied,"in the other world."

The Guru stated,"If the water cannot reach my fields which are about four hundred miles away from here, how can your water reach your ancestors who are not even on this earth?" The crowd stood in dumb realization. The Guru preached against superstitions and false rituals, worship of gods and goddesses, penances and renunciation. He stressed that only One God, the Formless, was to be glorified. In this way he showed the path of truth and enlightenment. There is a Gurdwara called Nanakwara in Hardwar on the bank of the river Ganges where the Guru had stayed.

from
http://allaboutsikhs.com/gurus/gurunanak3.htm
Reply

chacha_jalebi
05-16-2006, 06:35 PM
Originally Posted by Khoza

Ps. Im in sixth form now too
so lol
Reply

jss
05-16-2006, 06:37 PM
Originally Posted by Khoza
Only focus on Islam eh??
Whys that??
Anyway i enjoy reading about all religions so that i find them easier to accept in an ever increasing diverse society, when im older i plan on reading the Koran


name rings a bell
akhoza??
Reply

Khoza
05-16-2006, 06:43 PM
Originally Posted by jss
name rings a bell
akhoza??
yes and you are
Reply

Khoza
05-16-2006, 06:45 PM
Originally Posted by ISDhillon
wow i havent read alot about Guru Nanaks interactions with Buddhism. Hmmm interesting
Reply

Trumble
05-16-2006, 06:45 PM
Originally Posted by Khoza
Anyway i enjoy reading about all religions so that i find them easier to accept in an ever increasing diverse society, when im older i plan on reading the Koran

I'd read it now... it's a wonderful piece of literature even in the English translation, although its far more than that to muslims, of course. Learning Arabic just to read it as it should be read is high on my "if I ever get time to do it" list.
Reply

Khoza
05-16-2006, 06:47 PM
Originally Posted by Trumble
I'd read it now... it's a wonderful piece of literature even in the English translation, although its far more than that to muslims, of course. Learning Arabic just to read it as it should be read is high on my "if I ever get time to do it" list.
I want to try and learn it in arabic aswell since translations just change the meanings
Reply

jss
05-16-2006, 07:04 PM
Originally Posted by Khoza
yes and you are

:) someone
Reply

Khoza
05-16-2006, 07:12 PM
Originally Posted by jss
:) someone
LOL your from ss??
Reply

jss
05-16-2006, 07:24 PM
Originally Posted by Khoza
LOL your from ss??

lol
Gur rakha
Reply

KAding
05-17-2006, 08:19 AM
Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
salaam

in 6 form Allah (swt) showed d lite 2 1 of me sikh mateys n she converted :)

bcos she sed dat guru nanak sed islamic tins lik such as Allah has no father, son or bros, also in a book var majh, guru nanak tlks bout d islamic prayers & how dey r d rite 1s, n she dint agree wit certain stuf in d religion, but neway lol she converted 2 islam :)

i tink 1 can ask a sikh d position of guru nanak, cos he did "apparently" go 4 hajj, n he sed quite a lot of islamic stuff, anyway Allah (swt) knows best
This is very hard to read for me, perhaps because English is not my first language. Could you perhaps type out words in the future.

Thanks :).
Reply

ISDhillon
05-17-2006, 08:39 AM
Originally Posted by KAding
This is very hard to read for me, perhaps because English is not my first language. Could you perhaps type out words in the future.

Thanks :).

I agree:) , a discussion forum is one thing and a chatroom is quite another.

ISDhillon
Reply

ISDhillon
05-17-2006, 08:56 AM
Originally Posted by Inshallah
Sikh people are hard to convert since they hate muslims to start off with but of course it's possible. I have some really good sikh friends but they are sticked solid to there religion just how we are to islam.
Its got nothing to do with hating Islam, muslims however have alot to answer for when it comes to hatred themselves, the reason why we are solid in our faith is because for us its more than a faith, your prophet left this earth right? so now you have to proove that Islam is the best way, for us it is different our guru never left so when people ask us for proof, it would be like your prophet saying to angel gabrielle "where is the proof this revelation is coming from god?"

Do you get me?

Have a nice day:)

ISDhillon:thankyou:
Reply

Inshallah
05-17-2006, 09:00 AM
If your guru never left you than where is he????? -----
Reply

IceQueen~
05-17-2006, 09:03 AM
i know sikhs who have become muslims alhamdu lillah-i think i'll ask them what was it that attracted them to do so insha allah.
Reply

Inshallah
05-17-2006, 09:04 AM
Did you know that sikh people are banned from eating halal meat??? Yes it's true.
Reply

Inshallah
05-17-2006, 09:09 AM
No it's true some of my friends told me that alcohol is incorporated in there religion why are you backing off from what your own people are saying. I know a lot of muslim people who do bad things they'll be punished for it you don't have to worry about that.
Reply

IceQueen~
05-17-2006, 09:18 AM
what about what dr zakir naik has to say about da'wah to sikhs?
he's done lectures on this matter...
Reply

ISDhillon
05-17-2006, 09:21 AM
Originally Posted by marge1
what about what dr zakir naik has to say about da'wah to sikhs?
he's done lectures on this matter...
he doesnt say much just explains the essentials but also missed out the essential part of sikhism when defining the basic creed, that god can only be revealed by the guru instead his translation read "god is great and compassionate" none of which features in the script. Marge I am a sikh and you dont have to trust me when i say this but Dr ZN is only good for recalling from his long-term memory he knows nothing about comparitive religion.

No offence,

ISDhillon:)
Reply

Mohsin
05-17-2006, 09:26 AM
Originally Posted by ISDhillon
he doesnt say much just explains the essentials but also missed out the essential part of sikhism when defining the basic creed, that god can only be revealed by the guru instead his translation read "god is great and compassionate" none of which features in the script. Marge I am a sikh and you dont have to trust me when i say this but Dr ZN is only good for recalling from his long-term memory he knows nothing about comparitive religion.

No offence,

ISDhillon:)

I dont think he knows much about Sikhism but he knows loads about Christianity Buddhism Hinduism and Judaism
Reply

ISDhillon
05-17-2006, 09:34 AM
Originally Posted by Moss
I dont think he knows much about Sikhism but he knows loads about Christianity Buddhism Hinduism and Judaism
lol moss i though you were ignoring me cos i'm rude:giggling: , well yes its true i think 1430 pages is alot to memorise , so is youre freind still doing his hair like jay sean next time you see him ask him whats wrong with juggy d?:okay:
Reply

Muhammad
05-17-2006, 09:36 AM
Greetings,

Let's try to keep the discussion civil and respectful, please. Some unnecessary posts have been deleted. If anyone wants to find out about Sikhism or discuss the religion, please visit http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...4-sikhism.html

I think I will answer an off-topic remark:
muslims however have alot to answer for when it comes to hatred themselves,
Please don't confuse the people with a religion; while there may be poorly practising people, it does not mean the religion is flawed, as Islam does not teach hatred nor violence.

the reason why we are solid in our faith is because for us its more than a faith, your prophet left this earth right? so now you have to proove that Islam is the best way, for us it is different our guru never left so when people ask us for proof, it would be like your prophet saying to angel gabrielle "where is the proof this revelation is coming from god?"
If your religion is "more than a faith", I assume you mean that you have contact with your guru and can show him to others to provide proof? I'm not quite sure what you mean about the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), but his leaving the world does not affect Islam in any way since he left behind his Sunnah and the Qur'an - which actually informs of his death.

Peace.
Reply

ISDhillon
05-17-2006, 09:44 AM
Please don't confuse the people with a religion; while there may be poorly practising people, it does not mean the religion is flawed, as Islam does not teach hatred nor violence.
this is why i said muslims not islam, and also thats why Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji said "na koi hindu na Koi Mussalman" meaning there is not hindu or muslim left on this earth, i know i have contradicted myself their anybody would think i was god lol

If your religion is "more than a faith", I assume you mean that you have contact with your guru and can show him to others to provide proof?
again here we go again, the guru is the word it was always the word the vehicle for the word was once flesh today its paper it has othing to do with a body, and the second error is the asking for proof?, the word is the proof cos thats all the guru was in the first place, if you want proof that the word is god then you have to listen to gurbani and see the effects it has on your soul the power of naam is amazing look:

http://www.ektaone.com/sikhism_060218.php

It seems more and more people from different backgrounds of race and religion are becoming more and more influenced by the teachings of Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Jee with the realisation of naam. Sikh societies around the UK are becoming more and more proactive to help spread the teachings and help people, regardless of their social background, to come and join in with sangat and learn about the Sikh faith. Derby University Sikh Society is at the forefront of this mission. It has to be stressed, that its not about converting people or forcing them. The aim is to show people the path and leave them the choice whether they want to walk it, or not. So we caught up with Ambreen Raza, a female Muslim student, who talks about her experience and enlightenment thanks to the Sikh Society.

What were you views on Waheguru before learning about Naam and why?

I had a general view, pretty much like everyone else. I've been brought up being told that there is a God and He makes everything happen. I didn't really believe in this much but it was always in the back of my mind.

I guess the main reason why I didn't believe in God that much was from personal experiences i.e. doing good but bad always happening to me. I believed that you make things happen for yourself, for example if you smoke and you have a heart attack, how can that be a sign from God, when its obvious the smoking caused it?

What was your view of religion before learning about parts of Sikhism and Naam?

I didn't really have a view on religion. I respect all faiths but didn't feel strongly about any of them. The main reasons being because whenever I asked questions about religions I was always given ‘blind faith answers' i.e. “it's just the way it is” or “it says so in the Quran (or any other ‘Holy book').” The answers were never fully explained and backed up with proof. They left me feeling unsure and dissatisfied. I felt like there must be more to it than what they were saying.

However, I didn't believe that it was necessary to follow a faith to be good to people and have manners. That's common courtesy. It depends on the type of person you are, not which religion you follow.

From not being bothered about God and religion what got you interested in Sikhism?

I had seen Amarjit (head of Sikh society at uni) around uni a few times and he never seemed upset, angry or stressed out, even on deadline days! It got me wondering about why he never had these negative emotions. I mean if I had 4 assignments to hand in on that same day and I hadn't done any of them I would be stressing, but Amarjit always had a smile on his face and managed to get his work done on time.

I approached him one day and asked him what his secret was and he said Sikhi. So I started asking him questions like, ‘what is the point of life?', ‘is there a God? And how do you know?', ‘why do bad things happen?', ‘what happens when you die?' … he answered all of my questions.

From learning about Naam, what have you learnt? What is your view on Waheguru and religion now?

I've learnt about death; 8,400,000,000 births and deaths, staying in the human karma and actual hell if there is no Naam in your life. It has helped me realise why things happen to people, for example why people are born with disabilities etc.

Learning about Nam has made me realise the importance of Waheguru and the purpose of life. There's so much more to life than I thought.

Prior to Sikhism all the religion heads filled their own egos by diverting the attention of the follower away from God and onto themselves. The effects of Gurbani and Naam have made me realise the power of God.

Do Muslims at uni know you are learning about Sikhism?

Yes they do. I was on the Sikh Society stall during freshers' week.

How have Muslims reacted to you and the person who is teaching you? Any hostility towards you or him?

No one has come directly to me, however there have been notes left at Amarjit's desk, we're not sure if whether it was left by a Muslim. There have been some people from the Islamic society approach my sister and tell her that they feel they need to speak to me, but to this day no one has actually approached me.

How have you been taught? And do you get bored?

I've been taught on a one to one basis, we've had sessions last up to 3 hours. They weren't intended to be that long but once we get talking it's really makes you think and we get carried away.

Are you interested in learning more?

Yes. There is so much I haven't covered yet, I've only been taught the basics and there is so much more to learn. I've been taught everything in so much depth that I just want to keep learning about it.

Many thanks to Derby University Sikh Society and Ambreen Raza.

I'm not quite sure what you mean about the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), but his leaving the world does not affect Islam in any way since he left behind his Sunnah and the Qur'an - which actually informs of his death.

this is fine by me i dont know how it ties into all of this though.

Have a nice day amigos:)

ISDhillon
Reply

Muhammad
05-17-2006, 10:36 AM
Greetings,

Originally Posted by ISDhillon
this is fine by me i dont know how it ties into all of this though.
It ties into the part where you said:

your prophet left this earth right? so now you have to proove that Islam is the best way,
Anyway, I am glad that you agree with my point.

Also, posting a reversion story to show the effect that Sikhism has on one's soul isn't much help, since I could just as well read the hundreds of Islamic stories describing how Islam entered into people's hearts.

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...ours-here.html

Peace.
Reply

ISDhillon
05-17-2006, 12:06 PM
Also, posting a reversion story to show the effect that Sikhism has on one's soul isn't much help, since I could just as well read the hundreds of Islamic stories describing how Islam entered into people's hearts.
Its not a reversion story cos she's still a muslim i dont think yo understood, its the proof of the power of gurshabad which is why you make the same error again here:

It ties into the part where you said:
basically you believe you can reason to the truth because koran is logical right?, i am saying you find the truth within when you practice naam and listen to gurbani, you see now how your scripture and mine both have entirely different functions?


this has nothing to do with my comments i hope you see now,

ISDhillon
Reply

Muhammad
05-17-2006, 04:38 PM
Greetings,

Oh I see, sorry if I misunderstood.

basically you believe you can reason to the truth because koran is logical right?, i am saying you find the truth within when you practice naam and listen to gurbani, you see now how your scripture and mine both have entirely different functions?
I don't really want to start a debate about logic, since I believe there is already one taking place elsewhere; but putting logic aside, is not the function of both scriptures to guide mankind?

Peace.
Reply

anis_z24
05-17-2006, 05:41 PM
Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
:sl: Moss,


To learn about sikhism, I suggest looking up Sikhism at Wikipedia.

:w:
Salam,
Yes, but be carful as Wikipedia is not always that accurate.
Reply

ISDhillon
05-17-2006, 06:28 PM
I don't really want to start a debate about logic, since I believe there is already one taking place elsewhere; but putting logic aside, is not the function of both scriptures to guide mankind?

The SGGS is for spiritual enlightenment of mankind, the rehat maryada (http://www.sgpc.net/sikhism/sikh-dharma-manual.asp) is the code of conduct for mankind but only if youre baptised if youre not baptised then you opted not to live as god intended. When you become spiritually enlightened you automatically live a righteous life cos you have found something greater in gods creation to satisfy your hunger. The rehat helps man get disciplined and steers him/her away from manmat (path of the mind), also it is the gurus roop and we say their will never be another father like Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji so his roop which is khalsa is the best.

ISDhillon:)
Reply

Muhammad
05-17-2006, 11:19 PM
Greetings,

Thank you for the explanation :).

This [revelation, then,] is a means of insight for mankind, and a guidance and grace unto people who are endowed with inner certainty. [Qur'an 45:20]

VERILY, this Qur'an shows the way to all that is most upright, and gives the believers who do good deeds the glad tiding that theirs will be a great reward; [Qur'an 17:9]

Peace.
Reply

ISDhillon
05-17-2006, 11:26 PM
Thank you for the explanation :).

Good night:thankyou:
Reply

jsc
05-19-2006, 11:20 PM
what does Da'wah mean?

i seen this sign on our mates house that said "duah when entering home" :-s is dat the same thing???
Reply

ISDhillon
05-19-2006, 11:23 PM
to bring the deen to others
Reply

jsc
05-19-2006, 11:26 PM
acha, my pm dont work cuz i aint got 50posts... pm me ur msn dhillon...
Reply

ISDhillon
05-19-2006, 11:26 PM
duah is like ardas ,its not the same as dawaah which is parchar
Reply

Pukandi baba
05-29-2006, 11:59 AM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
:sl:

I'm not in the best position to give specific advice because I'm not a scholar and I've never been in that position. However, Muslims are taught to be tolerant of other faiths.

In my humble view, people are free to follow whatever they choose. I'm fortunate to be Muslim and man do I know it. :brother:

:w:

Now this is a true musslman :)
Reply

Pukandi baba
05-29-2006, 12:18 PM
Originally Posted by ISDhillon
duah is like ardas ,its not the same as dawaah which is parchar
I thought the doctor provided that?
Reply

ISDhillon
05-29-2006, 02:55 PM
Originally Posted by Pukandi baba
I thought the doctor provided that?
lollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll:giggling:
Reply

max314
05-29-2006, 10:55 PM
Originally Posted by Moss
Assalamualaikum!

Does anbody here have any tips as to how to give da'wah to a sikh?
Or is anyone here a revert from Sikhism?
Or does anyone know of any such contradictions or scientific errors in the Sikh teachings?
Is there any good site for these questions if none of you know the answer?

Basically i have a sikh friend who recently has taken a real disliking towards Islam when he found out according to Islam, only Muslims go to heaven and all other followers of other religions go to hell. He thinks all religions are right and basically they are all a different form of discipline, for example some people pray 5 times a day to discipline themselves and be good people, some people go to church, some people grow their hair long like sikhs. But basically all are different paths to God

The basic argument i have agaisnt HIS views are, that Sikhism is contradicting itself big time. How can all religions be right, seeing as religions like Christianity Judaism and Islam all believe the whole purpose of their life revolves round the fact we will e going to heaven/hell, whilst religions like Sikhsim n Hinduism believe in reincarnation
Christianity believes Jesus is Son of God, whilst Islam emphatically says the oppisite, saing it is blasphemous to say this
Hinduism says there are lots of Gods and for example Judaism says theres one God. How can all these religions be right, its as if your saying God said one thing to one set of epople, and said something totall different to another set, ie saying he is lieing and that just can't be

Anyway these are my views regarding his views, but i'm not too sure if these are the correct Sikh beliefs
Please can someone comment or help me on this topic, or provide a decent site about this
You make a very valid enquiry.

The thing about Nanakian philosophy is that there is no requirement for religion when it comes to 'reaching' God.

God is attainable by all and everyone regardless of which path they choose.

So why was 'Sikkhism' forged into a religion?

The fact of the matter is that Sikkhism never became a 'religion' until Guru Gobind Singh Ji made it so. He did it in order to solidify Nanakian philosophy inside a more concrete form because he realised that men are oh-so dependent on routine and form and other such physical manifestations in order to assist them to focus.

The truth remains that God is attainable to anyone and everyone. But by forging Sikkhism into a religion with a set of routines, this would at the very least keep the more barbaric traits of society out of touch with those who chose to follow the system set in place by Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

Therefore, religion is not a necessity to 'reach' God (God sees no man by religion: "na koi Hindu, na koi Musalmaan" in the eyes of God, says Nanak). But Sikkhism was created in an effort to stop people from worshipping stones and acting in a barbaric manner (to deviate from the idol worshipping of Hindus and the Kafir-hating Muslims).

Guru Gobind Singh ji discussed this with Muslim emperor Mohammad Azam (third son of Aurangzeb), he told him there may be three gods. Emperor replied in anger "What three gods!"

Guru ji smiled and said " Your father hindered the Hindus from worshipping Rama and instead asked them to utter the name of another God, Allah Pak or Khuda. He proclaimed that heaven is made for Muslims and hell for Hindus. Hindus on the other hand do not worship Khuda and claim that the Muslims will go to hell. I believe in a God whom neither of these acknowledge. He is the merciful father of all, and loves the Hindus and Muslims alike, and sends them to heaven or hell on the basis of their actions".

My hope is that this now makes good sense.
Reply

max314
05-29-2006, 11:03 PM
Originally Posted by ISDhillon
...if youre not baptised then you opted not to live as god intended.
No matter which religion you are from - Islam, Sikkhism, Christianity, etc - the idea that somehow there is a form that God intends is ridiculous...moreso in Sikkhism than perhaps in any other religion I am aware of.

Why?

Because this assumes that every soul that has lived before the time that religion X was initiated is somehow un-Godly.

This makes no sense...especially not in Sikkhism.

The fact that God has "intent" has no correlation with the Mool Mantra (the first passage of the Granth that outlines God's nature as being as further removed from human constructs than one could possibly imagine).

God sees no man by his religion. God sees no man by the mortal words he uses to say his name. We all exist within God, and God exists within us.

We are all one.

Hence the opening line in the Granth being dedicated to one fundamental line from which everything else in the Granth (much like the universe itself) is spawned:

Ek Onkar

"There Is One"
Reply

max314
05-29-2006, 11:12 PM
Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
salaam

in 6 form Allah (swt) showed d lite 2 1 of me sikh mateys n she converted :)

bcos she sed dat guru nanak sed islamic tins lik such as Allah has no father, son or bros, also in a book var majh, guru nanak tlks bout d islamic prayers & how dey r d rite 1s, n she dint agree wit certain stuf in d religion, but neway lol she converted 2 islam :)

i tink 1 can ask a sikh d position of guru nanak, cos he did "apparently" go 4 hajj, n he sed quite a lot of islamic stuff, anyway Allah (swt) knows best

Hey there.

You talk of conversion (as do some Sikkh members here), but Guru Nanak clearly stated that religions do not exist. They are delusions. Fabrications of mankind.

So whether you 'are a Muslim' or 'are a Sikkh', it really does not matter.

Essentially, when we 'defend' what we perceive to be 'our religion', it is merely a matter of pride...something that God has no use for.

Everything must have some kind of a name to be identified. It just so happens that Guru Nanak's philosophy of secularism, democracy, acceptance, tolerance, humility and virtue has been labelled 'Sikkhism'...but those principles have no name. You might as well call is 'humanism' or something. Whatever float your boat :okay:
Reply

ISDhillon
05-29-2006, 11:13 PM
[
QUOTE=max314;333037]No matter which religion you are from - Islam, Sikkhism, Christianity, etc - the idea that somehow there is a form that God intends is ridiculous...moreso in Sikkhism than perhaps in any other religion I am aware of.
i disagree it is gods hukum that sikhs live according to the baptismal ceremony, this does not mean that god requires non-sikhs to be baptised, but for a sikh baptism is indeed a godly requirement but it must start as an ideal it must not be rigidly imposed - that i would agree with.

Thanks,

ISDhillon:)
Reply

Pukandi baba
05-30-2006, 07:30 AM
Originally Posted by max314
You make a very valid enquiry.

The thing about Nanakian philosophy is that there is no requirement for religion when it comes to 'reaching' God.

God is attainable by all and everyone regardless of which path they choose.
I agree with this, as it's the whole concept of Sikhism.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji did the Amrit sanchar as advised by Waheguru/Allah/Ram, it matters not by what name one refers to God in, as in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji these names come-up over and over again.

Guru Nanak Ji only did as was the hukam of the Almighty, nothing different.
Reply

Pukandi baba
05-30-2006, 07:37 AM
Originally Posted by max314
Hence the opening line in the Granth being dedicated to one fundamental line from which everything else in the Granth (much like the universe itself) is spawned:

Ek Onkar

"There Is One"
There was an article titled ''Russians getting hooked to Sikhism''

Russians stated that they had been greatly impressed by the teachings of Sikhism and had invited Baba Virsa Singh, a Sikh Saint settled in Delhi, to visit Moscow this year to spread the message of the great religion.

Valentin Sidorov has spent some days at the dera of Baba Virsa Singh, who has already translated Jaap Sahib into Russian. Two Russian scholars are now working at the dera translating the holy Guru Granth Sahib into Russian.

Now correct me if i'm wrong but these russians are finding so much peace from reading the Shabad. Not to mention the numerous converts of caucasians in America who have embraced Sikhi! It is the religion of the future.
Reply

max314
06-21-2006, 03:53 PM
Originally Posted by ISDhillon
[

i disagree it is gods hukum that sikhs live according to the baptismal ceremony, this does not mean that god requires non-sikhs to be baptised, but for a sikh baptism is indeed a godly requirement but it must start as an ideal it must not be rigidly imposed - that i would agree with.

Thanks,

ISDhillon:)
I love being told by mortal human beings about what "God's Will" apparently is :happy:
Reply

max314
06-21-2006, 03:56 PM
Originally Posted by Pukandi baba
I agree with this, as it's the whole concept of Sikhism.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji did the Amrit sanchar as advised by Waheguru/Allah/Ram, it matters not by what name one refers to God in, as in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji these names come-up over and over again.

Guru Nanak Ji only did as was the hukam of the Almighty, nothing different.
Every man, woman and child can do naught but "the hukam of the almighty". It is impossible to defy the Lord's Will. We are each living the Lord's Will right now. Just don't assume that Divine Will and Human Will are driven by the same thing. Because they're not.
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
06-21-2006, 04:00 PM
Originally Posted by max314
Every man, woman and child can do naught but "the hukam of the almighty". It is impossible to defy the Lord's Will. We are each living the Lord's Will right now. Just don't assume that Divine Will and Human Will are driven by the same thing. Because they're not.
Who's claiming it is? Unless you're saying Guru Nanak/Guru Gobind singh ji were mere humans!?
Reply

max314
06-21-2006, 04:11 PM
Originally Posted by Pukandi baba
There was an article titled ''Russians getting hooked to Sikhism''

Russians stated that they had been greatly impressed by the teachings of Sikhism and had invited Baba Virsa Singh, a Sikh Saint settled in Delhi, to visit Moscow this year to spread the message of the great religion.

Valentin Sidorov has spent some days at the dera of Baba Virsa Singh, who has already translated Jaap Sahib into Russian. Two Russian scholars are now working at the dera translating the holy Guru Granth Sahib into Russian.

Now correct me if i'm wrong but these russians are finding so much peace from reading the Shabad. Not to mention the numerous converts of caucasians in America who have embraced Sikhi! It is the religion of the future.
Why do people get so excited when someone 'converts' to their belief system?

It's because each time someone converts, we feel just that bit more validated than before. No-one likes being told that they are wrong. But everyone likes being told that they are right. When we 'convert' someone, it feels like a re-affirmation that our view is the correct one. It's due to two of the 'Five Thieves': attachment (m'öh), and pride (hankär).

There is no definitive 'proof' of any of the religions. If there was, none of these debates would even be happening. There are only beliefs. And as such, none of them require evidential back-up; it's all argument-by-assertion.

"It's like this!"

"No, it's like this!"

Totally useless. You may as well construct a floating citadel in the clouds and live out the rest of your days in it.
Reply

max314
06-21-2006, 04:14 PM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Who's claiming it is? Unless you're saying Guru Nanak/Guru Gobind singh ji were mere humans!?
I said that we are all living out the Will of God right now.

And let's see: two arms, two legs, two eyes, two ears, walks like a man, talks like a man, looks like a man...holy smokes! I think they were men! :okay:
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
06-21-2006, 06:11 PM
Originally Posted by max314
I said that we are all living out the Will of God right now.

And let's see: two arms, two legs, two eyes, two ears, walks like a man, talks like a man, looks like a man...holy smokes! I think they were men! :okay:
Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit!

Anyway here's a quote dissect, this and feed it to me Max!

Pragat Sagal Her Bhavan Mein Jan Nanak Gur Parbrahm". "Aap Narain Kala Dhaar Jag Mein Parvaraio"

P.S Who claimed we weren't living within his will? I most certainly didn't!
Reply

max314
06-21-2006, 08:24 PM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit!
And I am the lowest form of life, so it suits me fine ;)

Oh, and I hope you know just how sarcastic Guru Nanak was...

"I'm watering my fields!" :giggling: That's why I like him...he never takes anything too seriously and just has a great time...we should learn from him! ;)

Anyway here's a quote dissect, this and feed it to me Max!

Pragat Sagal Her Bhavan Mein Jan Nanak Gur Parbrahm". "Aap Narain Kala Dhaar Jag Mein Parvaraio"
Might I be so bold as to ask for a translation? I get some of it, but not enough to make a comment. Thanks in advance ;)

P.S Who claimed we weren't living within his will? I most certainly didn't!
If you read my posts back, I never actually accused anyone of saying that :okay:
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
06-21-2006, 08:43 PM
Originally Posted by max314
And I am the lowest form of life, so it suits me fine ;)

Oh, and I hope you know just how sarcastic Guru Nanak was...

"I'm watering my fields!" :giggling: That's why I like him...he never takes anything too seriously and just has a great time...we should learn from him! ;)


:
It is only best suited to Guruji :)


Aap Narain Kala Dhaar Jag Meh Parwario
Nirankar Akaar Jot Jag Mandal Kario

Sri Guru Granth Sahib (1395)

The Formless God having assumed the Sacred Form of Sri Guru Amar Das Ji has illuminated the World.


No i do not worship the Guru's as they forbid this, but you say all they were just humans, nothing more nothing less, this Shabad would say you're wrong! :)

Gur Fateh!
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
06-22-2006, 09:43 AM
Originally Posted by truthseeker666
<<The Formless God having assumed the Sacred Form of Sri Guru Amar Das Ji has illuminated the World. >>

i donot read thhe translation as such.

Where is reference to Guru Amar Das ji ?
this is from the bani of Bhatt saints.

please explain how you deduce that they said this to be Guru Amar Das ji ?
http://www.srigurugranthsahib.org/gu...e-by-bards.htm
Reply

Khoza
06-22-2006, 07:09 PM
Originally Posted by max314
And I am the lowest form of life, so it suits me fine ;)

Oh, and I hope you know just how sarcastic Guru Nanak was...

"I'm watering my fields!" :giggling: That's why I like him...he never takes anything too seriously and just has a great time...we should learn from him! ;)
hahah good one
Reply

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