The American shiek.

[imaad_udeen]

I found this to be a nice, funny story from Iraq and an example of how Americans and Arabs can work together for the better good.

This picture is too good not to post:

(caption)U.S. Army Staff Sgt. Dale Horn, right, of Fort Walton Beach, Fla., speaks with a villager and Mohammed Ismail Ahmed, left, a local sheik. Horn's assistance to locals prompted them to make him a sheik.

U.S. soldier's aid to Iraqis earns him title of sheik

By Antonio Castaneda
The Associated Press

Salt Lake Tribune
QAYYARAH, Iraq - Sheik Horn floats around the room in white robe and headdress, exchanging pleasantries with dozens of village leaders.
But he is the only sheik with blonde streaks in his mustache - and the only one who attended country music star Toby Keith's recent concert in Baghdad with fellow U.S. soldiers.
Officially, he is Army Staff Sgt. Dale L. Horn, but to residents of the 37 villages and towns that he patrols he is known as the American sheik.
Sheiks, or village elders, are known as the real power in rural Iraq. And the 5-foot-6-inch Floridian's ascension to the esteemed position came through humor and the military's need to clamp down on rocket attacks.
Late last year a full-blown battle between insurgents and U.S. and Iraqi forces had erupted, and U.S. commanders assigned a unit to stop rocket and mortar attacks that regularly hit their base. Horn, who had been trained to operate radar for a field artillery unit, was now thrust into a job that largely hinged on coaxing locals into divulging information about insurgents.
Horn, 25, a native of Fort Walton Beach, Fla., acknowledges he had little interest in the region before coming here. But a local sheik friendly to U.S. forces, Mohammed Ismail Ahmed, explained the inner workings of rural Iraqi society on one of Horn's first Humvee patrols.
Horn says he was intrigued, and started making a point of stopping by all the villages, all but one dominated by Sunni Arabs, to talk to people about their life and security problems.
Moreover, he pressed for development projects in the area: he now boasts that he helped funnel $136,000 worth of aid into the area. Part of that paid for delivery of clean water to 30 villages during the broiling summer months.
Mohammed, Horn's mentor, eventually suggested during a meeting of village leaders that Horn be named a sheik.
Some sheiks later gave him five sheep and a postage stamp of land, fulfilling some of the requirements for sheikdom. Others encouraged him to start looking for a second wife, which Horn's spouse back in Florida immediately vetoed.

[minaz]

Strange story

[minaz]

story as in news

[imaad_udeen]

:sl:

Yes we know what kind of local sheikh this is, who deals with the kuffaar, tell him to grow a beard before he thinks he is a sheik and before he calls kufaar who are waging war on islaam sheikh.

:w:

Is there some rule that Sheiks have to be Muslims?

Obviously there are some Muslims who do not agree with your opinions.

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[Ansar Al-'Adl]

:sl:

Is there some rule that Sheiks have to be Muslims?

yes.

:w:

[imaad_udeen]

:sl:

yes.

:w:

:sl:

okay. according to whom? Does it apply to Iraqi villages?

I have yet to find anything which says a Sheik has to be a Muslim.

Most say they are "older men, wise men, religious leaders, tribal or village leaders, man of respect, etc."

:w:

[Henry]

It's good to see some happyness once in a while :)

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

okay. according to whom? Does it apply to Iraqi villages?

I have yet to find anything which says a Sheik has to be a Muslim.

Most say they are "older men, wise men, religious leaders, tribal or village leaders, man of respect, etc."

:w:

:sl: Br. Imadudeen,
Okay, I assumed you were using 'Sheik' to refer to an Islamic scholar of certain qualifications, the first being that he is a Muslim. However, if you meant a tribal leader, wise man, older man, etc. as the word 'sheik' can be used for such meanings as well, then it is obvious that they need not be Muslim to be considered such.

:w:

[imaad_udeen]

:sl: Br. Imadudeen,
Okay, I assumed you were using 'Sheik' to refer to an Islamic scholar of certain qualifications, the first being that he is a Muslim. However, if you meant a tribal leader, wise man, older man, etc. as the word 'sheik' can be used for such meanings as well, then it is obvious that they need not be Muslim to be considered such.

:w:

:sl:

No, I using the term as it refers to this article. Obviously this American soldiers is not a Muslim. But the title was conferred on him by some tribal and village leaders/elders for all the hard work he did to help the area become more stable.

It appears sheik has many meanings and since the title is older than Islam and the Prophet(pbuh) himself, I would assume it has more meaning than just a Muslim Holy man.

:w:

[TEH]

Im a sheikh, youre a sheikh, hes a sheikh, everyones a sheikh...

*bobs head up and down*

ahem, astaghfirullah, how can you make a non muslim a sheikh???

:D

[imaad_udeen]

Im a sheikh, youre a sheikh, hes a sheikh, everyones a sheikh...

*bobs head up and down*

ahem, astaghfirullah, how can you make a non muslim a sheikh???

:D

I don't know, but there were Sheik's before there were Muslims....

It's an Arabic word which is not only a Muslim term. 99.9% of Sheiks probably are Muslims, but I have yet to hear anyone say that only Muslims can be Sheiks,

Also, different regions and cultures have different traditions.

Obviously this area of Iraq can give out honorary Sheikdom's to those who are worthy and they obviously found this man worthy.

Just because he is American does not make him evil. He is obviously a good man no matter his nationality, skin color or religion and that is all that matters.

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

:sl:
As I mentioned before, its clear that the article is using the term as an honorary title, which is, within the scope of Islam, essentially meaningless. If they wish to consider him a respected leader, so be it.

:w:

[sonofadam]

Either way I hope insha'Allah he is killed by a road side bomb.

[Muezzin]

Either way I hope insha'Allah he is killed by a road side bomb.

I can't decide if that's the funniest or the scariest thing I've read today.

Also, can we lay off the knee-jerk America-bashing please? As Ansar clarified, 'sheikh' can mean things other than the Islamic definition. I personally found this story kind of amusing.

[Uthman]

:sl:

I personally found this story kind of amusing.

Me too. :)

:w:

[imaad_udeen]

Either way I hope insha'Allah he is killed by a road side bomb.

:sl:

That would be a shame since the man is obviously committed to helping Muslims.

:w:

[minaz]

Either way I hope insha'Allah he is killed by a road side bomb

Same to you

[imaad_udeen]

If this was true then he will get out of the country immeditly and speak against the illegal occupation of islamic land.

:w:

:sl:

I don't think so. An American withdrawal will do nothing but spark civil war and death on a scale far greater than what has happened thus far.

It is also a completely legal 'occupation' since the current Iraqi government has requested the continued presence of allied forces.

Allow me to preempt your rebuttal, the current Iraqi government is democratic and represented in the United Nations.

If the invasion was illegal, then how come the government formed on the invasion is viewed as being legal by the worlds governing body?

:sl:

[minaz]

lol i'm looking forward to Hashim's answer :p

[imaad_udeen]

:sl:

The answer is simple my brothers. The war was illegal, was it not? The invasion is ilegal and they went against UN, it was of course illegal. This government point, they do not reprresent iraqi's. they are US imposed puppet regime, and its no wonder they are being gunned down every day in Iraq.

:w:

UN Security Council Resolution 1441 was all that the US needed to justify it's invasion.

Besides, the US never surrendered it's right to self-defense to the UN. Hence, whenever the US feels its security is threatened it is free to act in defense of itself.

I thought Saddam's government was also a 'US imposed puppet regime.' How come they were not being gunned down every day?

The invasion was perfectly legal.

[Muezzin]

The invasion was perfectly legal.

Maybe. Still doesn't make it morally right in my eyes.

Akhee is this the way to speak to your fellow muslim brother?

Is 'I hope you are killed by a roadside bomb' the way to speak to a fellow human being?

[minaz]

lol he's gonna give us a list of ppl who it's right to do so to! :p

[Muezzin]

Tsk, tsk, Minaz, now you're just being rude. :p

[minaz]

lol Hashim doesn't mind :)

[imaad_udeen]

Maybe. Still doesn't make it morally right in my eyes.

That is a reasonable viewpoint.

I also think it reasonable to say it is morally wrong to leave a dictator and murder like Saddam Hussein in power when you have the ability to topple him.

Is 'I hope you are killed by a roadside bomb' the way to speak to a fellow human being?

It's okay, though, he's not human, he's American.

I guess there is a difference.

[Muezzin]

That is a reasonable viewpoint.

I also think it reasonable to say it is morally wrong to leave a dictator and murder like Saddam Hussein in power when you have the ability to topple him.

Very true. Thing is, they (the British Government at least) weren't going on about Saddam and altruistic ways to topple him; they were talking about WMD. As we know now, the notion that Iraw had WMD is patently false. Sure, they may have had plans, but there are plenty of other countries out there who have fully fledged warheads.

It's okay, though, he's not human, he's American.

I guess there is a difference.

Oooh, you're gonna get flamed for that bro ;)

[Takumi]

:sl:

This title of sheikh can not just be thrown around like it is a joke. Of course only a muslim can be called a shrei=kh, not only that but a muslim who is a mu'min or a muwaheed beliver, and has reached that level of knowledge, so he deserves the title of sheikh. So if that muslim has studied deen for a number of years, and he has relevant knowledge of islaam he can be sheikh. Look at imaam Malik (rahimulaah), he only accepted the title of sheikh after 80 top scholars told him he was pious and worthy of rank of sheikh title, and look at this story, some infidel invadr, ememy of islaam, and he is called sheikh! Riducolous! We need to be careful akhee imaad uddin, we must not over praise ANYONE over the top, even Muhammad (sallallhualayi'wa'salaam) himself!

:w:

:p

No shaykh in this world can save us from the hell fire or grant us jannah.

On the day of judgement these shuyookh will have to defend THEMSELVES from the hellfire. Only their deeds can save them and only by the Mercy of Allah that they will be granted jannah.

Title does not bring one closer to Allah.

If one shaykh has a problem when people don't call him shaykh just because he's knowledgable, then sadly, he's been deceived by this worldly affairs.

These titles are given by their students as a show of respect.

It's very interesting to note that some of us would call our scholars this shaykh and that shaykh and revere them more than the prophet, but when it comes to the ones really deserving of that title, we tend to say, "Ibn Abbas or Abu Hurairah or Ibn Mas'ood". These sahabah are greater than all the shuyookh combined and Allah had proclaimed that He's is pleased with them and they're with Him.

These proclamation does not include Qardawi, al baani or even Ibn Taimiyyah.

so, if the american soldier is called sheikh or whatever, let it be. I've never heard any fatawa that it's HARAAM or even makrooh to call anyone shaykh.

People call me shaykh all the time and trust me, I'm FAR from deserving that title. :p

So, let's be cool about it and focus on the things that are more important: How to make ourselves more sheikhic than before. In other words, implementing the verse from soorah al hujuraat,

"indeed the ones most noble among you in the sight of Allah is the one most mindful of Him" (inna akramakum 'indAllahi atqaakum)

:)

[Muezzin]

Great post Takumi.

[imaad_udeen]

Very true. Thing is, they (the British Government at least) weren't going on about Saddam and altruistic ways to topple him; they were talking about WMD. As we know now, the notion that Iraw had WMD is patently false. Sure, they may have had plans, but there are plenty of other countries out there who have fully fledged warheads.

:sl:

Yes, but I dont think the fact that he did not have WMD is the issue. The fact that he consistently refused to let anyone know he did not have them was the problem. The terms of his cease fire agreement with UN coalition after the first gulf war said that he had to be forthcoming with inspectors and he constantly failed to do so. There was a reasonable belief that Saddam was hiding WMD. Saddam wanted everyone to believe he had them since it gave him a stronger hand in the region, especially after his army had been completely routed on the battlefield in '91.

Saddam should have realized the changing tide after 911 and began to cooperate.

Oooh, you're gonna get flamed for that bro ;)

Comes with the territory.

:)

:w:

[imaad_udeen]

:sl:

Immad Uddin if you think this barbaruc invasion of islamic land is legal,

:sl:

Hey Bro, I will try my best to discuss this with you in a more civil manner than I have discussed these issue with you in the past. You are my Brother even though I feel you are on the wrong path.

Anyways, I would hardly call that war barbaric, especially when viewed against history.

Saddam's treatment of Kurds and Shi'a was barbaric. Saddams invasion of Kuwait and Iran was barbaric. The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was barbaric.

The US invasion was amazingly precise considering they were invading a large country. If it were to be barbaric then the American forces would have killed many many more people.

than i think you have to ask yourself wether you are american or muslim,

I don't think that I have to agree with you to be a Muslim.

because the nantionalism in you is blindly you friom reality.

I think your anti-Americanism is blinding you, Brother. But that is only my opinion. Allah knows which of us, if any of us, is right.

The american terrorists waged this war on false pretenses, and even you and your bush can not say otherwise. If you were fighting in self defence, then why did you attack them!

The premise of self-defense was based on the fear that Saddam Hussein would eventually give WMD capability to terrorists who would use them to attack the US.

They (the iraqi fighters) are righting in self defence now and you and your people still call them terrorists!

Due to their methods of murdering indescriminatly. My opinion, of course, but I stand by it. I believe in the right to rebel, but you must fight like a soldier and fight other soldiers. The Prophet (pbuh) and the Qu'ran strictly forbids attacking non-combatants yet these "Muslims" do just that.

Akhee imaad uddin forgive me if i offend you, but your people will be humilated and defeated even more in iraq and they will be kicked out like the cowards they are. They can not face the mujahideen and they are the paying the price in this life, and they will pay in the akhiraah for their actions too. And Allaah knows best.

:w:

No offense take, Bro, I expect that from you. I just think that you are wrong.

Peace, Brother.

:w:

[Muezzin]

:sl:

Yes, but I dont think the fact that he did not have WMD is the issue. The fact that he consistently refused to let anyone know he did not have them was the problem. The terms of his cease fire agreement with UN coalition after the first gulf war said that he had to be forthcoming with inspectors and he constantly failed to do so. There was a reasonable belief that Saddam was hiding WMD. Saddam wanted everyone to believe he had them since it gave him a stronger hand in the region, especially after his army had been completely routed on the battlefield in '91.

Saddam should have realized the changing tide after 911 and began to cooperate.

Fair enough. Still, you gotta admit they must have been pretty embarassed when they didn't find anything there. 'The Emperor's new Warheads' :p

[imaad_udeen]

Fair enough. Still, you gotta admit they must have been pretty embarassed when they didn't find anything there. 'The Emperor's new Warheads' :p

:sl:

Certainly. But the thing is, I think EVERYONE assumed Saddam had them, because he wanted people to think he had them. All of this could have been avoided had he just abided by the ceasefire agreements his government signed after their brutal invasion and subsequent rout in Kuwait.

:w:

[bronumba1]

Fair enough. Still, you gotta admit they must have been pretty embarassed when they didn't find anything there. 'The Emperor's new Warheads' :p

huh?

[Muezzin]

huh?

Like 'The Emperor's New Clothes'

...you do know that story, right?

[Ummu Amatullah]

Saddam's treatment of Kurds and Shi'a was barbaric. Saddams invasion of Kuwait and Iran was barbaric. The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was barbaric....

Asallama Alaikum brother no one ever said that Saddam Hussein was innocent.In fact he was playing in the pockets of the U.S.The U.s aided him in many attacks.Then when he misused the power they gave him so, they decided to turn around on him.If any one was going to get blamed for any of this it would be the U.S and the U.N seeing how they brought him to power.

The US invasion was amazingly precise considering they were invading a large country. If it were to be barbaric then the American forces would have killed many many more people...

Exactly what's your deffinition of "barbaric"?I beleive killing more then half the population is barbaric wouldn't you?

Due to their methods of murdering indescriminatly. My opinion, of course, but I stand by it. I believe in the right to rebel, but you must fight like a soldier and fight other soldiers. The Prophet (pbuh) and the Qu'ran strictly forbids attacking non-combatants yet these "Muslims" do just that.

Non-combatants.What are the non-combatants you're referring to?Surely I don't know anything about them killing non-combatants, but I do know that children and women are considered to be non-combatants aren't they?Can you tell me what Isreal's,America's,and the Uk's army does.Well let me do the honors.They gun down children http://alsaher.com/boycott/images/childvictim.jpg use them as sheilds
http://alsaher.com/boycott/images/boyshelter.jpg and just how splendid they even accuse little children of being terrorists http://alsaher.com/boycott/images/new/hold.jpg
now you tell me who's the real terrorist :mad: sorry if offended just getting fed up with these allegations.

[Muezzin]

This is all very interesting, but I'd like to hear more about people's reactions to the American Sheikh :p

[minaz]

why? No-one here seems to see him in a good light

[Muezzin]

Look at the picture man! Baking desert sun seems like good enough light to me :p

[Ummu Amatullah]

Who ever heard of an American sheik? ;D ;D

[Muezzin]

'Whoever heard of an American Sheikh'?

Everyone reading this thread actually. :)

[minaz]

yes and they don't like him

[Ummu Amatullah]

What I meant is that it's funny.ha...ha...ha.... get it.

[Muezzin]

And why exactly don't 'they' like him, minaz? Because he doesn't have as much melanin running through that skin of his? Or because of the country he's from, the accent he has?

And here I was thinking Muslims abhor racism.

I know what you meant, sis, I'm just being pedantic.

[minaz]

i'm a brother, 9 years of knowing you and you still forget, I even had pizza hut with you today!

[Muezzin]

i'm a brother, 9 years of knowing you and you still forget, I even had pizza hut with you today!

Just shut up about the pizza hut okay? :p

And I wasn't attacking you, I was attacking certain individuals who have this gravely mistaken belief that everything American or, let's face it, non-Arab, is 'Evil'.

[Ummu Amatullah]

Just shut up about the pizza hut okay? :p

And I wasn't attacking you, I was attacking certain individuals who have this gravely mistaken belief that everything American or, let's face it, non-Arab, is 'Evil'.

Bro most of it is.

[Muezzin]

Sis, you're proving my point.

Don't be narrow-minded.

[Ummu Amatullah]

narrow-minded eh..and to think this is coming from someone all the way in the U.K ummm....interesting.

[Muezzin]

:sl:

To quote bronumba1, 'huh?'

What does my living in the UK have to do with being open or narrow minded? :p

:w:

[minaz]

Oi leave the Uk alone

[Ummu Amatullah]

:sl:

To quote bronumba1, 'huh?'

What does my living in the UK have to do with being open or narrow minded? :p

:w:

What I intended by that is you don't really know what goes on in this hostile area.Sorry if I offended you.I'll just :zip: :zip: before this gets out of hand.

[minaz]

Please don't :zip: , i like to see someone argue with big head hot shot wanna be "Atticus Finch" :p

[Ummu Amatullah]

You just hate this guy for some weird reason don't you?

[Muezzin]

You just hate this guy for some weird reason don't you?

Same could be said for the American Sheikh of the topic title :)

[Ummu Amatullah]

Not really :brother:

[minaz]

lol the "wierd" reason is - surprise surprise (Chandler Bling voice) because he's American

[imaad_udeen]

Some will be stunned to learn that there might be *gasp* a couple good American soldiers....

One of those guys serving in Tikrit is one of my best friends. Went to high school with him, have known him since 10th grade, Good friend, good man. Not a monster.

*shocking*

[Muezzin]

:sl:

Good and evil are a point of view, Hashim. We must endeavour to see both sides of the argument before making a decision.

That said, I still think on balance it was wrong to invade Iraq, but now the situation is such that it would simply be impractical to leave.

:w:

[minaz]

yes if these non "good hearted person " leave, then they'll leave the place in the hands of those who blow themselves up taking scores of civilians with them. Sure US and Uk started all of it via the invasion, but 2 wrongs don't make a right - the latter wrong being leaving

[aamirsaab]

:sl:
I knew something like this was gonna happen: they invade iraq. Bust it so badly that they have to ''stay and help''. Yeah, my foot. They just want the oil. hehe, when they go to hell fire, they will want to get out.

[Muezzin]

:sl:

Look, Hashim, I did not support the war in Iraq, and it was a bad move in my opinion. However, now the situation is so screwed up thanks to the UK and US forces that they must stay there until they fix it.

I'm not anti-mujahid or anything like that - I'm just telling it like it is.

:w:

[minaz]

Posted by Hashim

urge you to speak with commonsense and not ignorance

Posted by Hashim

When they leave i can not see no sectarian civl way or anything like this

And i'm the one accused of spekaing with no "commonsense and ignorance" ;D