Guantánamo detainee charged with murder

[atha]

Guantánamo detainee charged with murder

The United States charged a Canadian held at Guantánamo with murder, attempted murder, conspiracy and other terrorism charges.
BY CAROL ROSENBERG
crosenberg@MiamiHerald.com

AP
KHADR
On the Web | The Pentagon statement
Document | Khadr's handwritten protest
Document |Khadr's charge sheet

The Pentagon on Tuesday formally charged a Canadian captive at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, with murder in the death of a U.S. Army medic during fighting in Afghanistan, setting the stage for his trial by a military commission.

Omar Khadr, now 20, was 15 on July 27, 2002, when he allegedly threw a grenade at U.S. Special Forces who had assaulted a suspected al Qaeda compound near Khost, Afghanistan. The explosion killed Army Sgt. 1st Class Christopher Speer, 28, of Albuquerque, N.M., and partially blinded Khadr and another American soldier.

Khadr also is charged with attempted murder for helping al Qaeda convert mines into roadside bombs, conspiracy for plotting with al Qaeda to kill U.S. troops, providing material support to terrorism by undergoing al Qaeda weapons training, and spying by monitoring American military convoys to aid al Qaeda attacks.

Khadr's lawyers have argued he should never have been held or charged, and instead should have been treated under international law as a ''child soldier'' in a conflict zone.

In his nearly five years at Guantánamo, he has gone from a fresh-faced teenager, portrayed in photos released by the family, to a six-foot-tall man with a fuzzy beard.

SECOND CASE

The Pentagon said it would not seek the death penalty in the case, the second to be brought under legislation passed last year authorizing military commissions for prisoners held at Guantánamo. The first case ended with Australian David Hicks, 31, pleading guilty to providing material support for terrorism in exchange for a nine-month prison sentence, most of it to be served in his homeland.

Khadr's fate is less certain. While Hicks' five-year imprisonment at Guantánamo without trial became a cause célèbre in Australia, Khadr's detention has elicited little sympathy in Canada.

The Khadr family, which settled in Toronto in 1977, has been cast as radical Muslims who have moved between Canada, Pakistan and Afghanistan, and at times socialized with Osama bin Laden's family.

Khadr's father, Ahmed Said Khadr, was killed in a shootout with Pakistani authorities in 2003. His younger brother, Karim, was paralyzed in that shootout. And an older brother, Abdullah, 25, is under indictment in Boston on charges of supplying weapons to al Qaeda.

NO OPPOSITION

In Ottawa, a Canadian government spokesman declined to criticize the decision to try Khadr, the only Canadian being held at Guantánamo.

''The choice of mechanisms put in place to try Guantánamo detainees is a matter for U.S. authorities,'' said Foreign Office spokesman Alain Cacchione.

Canada has ''sought and received assurances'' of Khadr's humane treatment, he added, and Canadian officials have carried out ``several welfare visits with Mr. Khadr and will continue to do so.''

Khadr's five-member defense team, including three law professors from American University in Washington, D.C., and two military lawyers, expressed outrage at the charges.

''Omar Khadr was taken into U.S. custody at the age of 15 and has been detained at Guantánamo since he was 16, in conditions equal to or worse than those given to convicted adult criminals, such as prolonged solitary confinement and repeated instances of torture,'' they said in a statement.

They called the commission a ''kangaroo court'' and declared ''abhorrent'' the Bush administration's decision ``to designate this youth for trial by military commission.''

The statement called for Canada and the United States to reach a plea deal in the case. ''Otherwise, Omar, just barely 20 years of age and a minor at the time of the alleged crimes, is guaranteed to be convicted in one of the greatest show trials on earth,'' the statement said. ``This should not be the legacy of America or Canada.''

Source: http://www.miamiherald.com/884/story/85690.html

[King Solomon]

In US law you can be tried as an adult at the age of 15 if you commit a violent crime. If he didn't want to go to Gitmo he shouldn't have thrown the grenade. I have no sympathy for him

[MTAFFI]

the case will never be a legacy, this families legacy died with the father, his paralyzed brother and hopefully with this MAN getting the death penalty for his crimes. If he is man enough to kill another man, and engage himself in such violence then he is man enough to hang, get the lethal injection or be gased. Glad he is getting his trial hopefully the rest of the dogs in that prison will get tried as well, get them off my tax dollars and put them to sleep or let them go (if innocent)

[Khan-Ghalgha]

So much passion in here! I like it, keep it up.

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[MTAFFI]

So much passion in here! I like it, keep it up.

no passion for those who kill soldiers of my country, no respect for them either. How much passion did he have when he killed those soldiers? Cant wait to hear when he gets what is coming to him

[aamirsaab]

:sl:

the case will never be a legacy, this families legacy died with the father, his paralyzed brother and hopefully with this MAN getting the death penalty for his crimes.

He was not a man when he commited the crime.

If he is man enough to kill another man, and engage himself in such violence then he is man enough to hang, get the lethal injection or be gased.

You cannot charge a 19 year old person for a crime he commited as a child, when he could not be convicted of it since he was too young. If you fail to understand this, you are indeed lost. Or in need of some tetley tea.

Glad he is getting his trial hopefully the rest of the dogs in that prison will get tried as well, get them off my tax dollars and put them to sleep or let them go (if innocent)

If gitmo is closed, your taxes won't contribute towards it :statisfie

no passion for those who kill soldiers of my country,

Perhaps you do not understand fully the concept of war: Soldiers die.

no respect for them either. How much passion did he have when he killed those soldiers?

The same amount of passion every other combatant has on the field.

Cant wait to hear when he gets what is coming to him

Sounds awfully right-winged, don't you think?

note: I do not condone any acts of violence that have been comitted by anyone involved in the present/past/future conflicts. But at the same time, do not expect me to stand there and accept blatant hypocrisy by states and those in power.

[MTAFFI]

:sl:
He was not a man when he commited the crime.

So what constitutes being a man to you? Did he not have his own mind? Could he not decipher that what he was doing would have a consequence? Yes he was indeed a man, what age would the Quran classify a woman to be a woman or a man to be a man?

You cannot charge a 19 year old person for a crime he commited as a child, when he could not be convicted of it since he was too young. If you fail to understand this, you are indeed lost. Or in need of some tetley tea.

He acted as a man on is own will, if you cant see this you are obviously kidding yourself

:
If gitmo is closed, you're taxes won't contribute towards it :statisfie

If they would try everyone and either imprison them, kill them or release them my taxes wouldnt contribute either would they?

:
Perhaps you do not understand fully the concept of war: Soldiers die.

I FULLY understand this, and I am OK with it... Perhaps it is you who doesnt understand, when soldiers die, those who killed them will be pursued and also killed, captured, or whatever the enemy decides

:
The same amount of passion every other combatant has on the field.

A combatant is a soldier, is a soldier not a man? If so then see paragraph 1 & 2

:
Sounds awfully right-winged, don't you think?

note: I do not condone any acts of violence that have been comitted by anyone involved in the present/past/future conflicts. but at the same time, do not expect me to stand there and accept blatant hypocrisy by states and those in power.

No it doesnt sound right winged to me at all, he killed our soldiers, now he must be punished and as far as I am concerned he should die. Plain and simple. I also dont condone acts of violence, but dont expect me to say to release a guy who would kill when he was 15 to go and kill another one of our soldiers at 19 so we can capture him again and try him as an adult. He fought, he was captured and now must face the consequences of his actions as an adult as he should

[Abdul Fattah]

Wait a second, he was arrested for fighting against American troops invading a foreign country in war. Wouldn't that make him a geurilla fighter instead of a terrorist? I geuss this is another one of America's "brainwashing" tactics to justify their actions: "see we' were only fighting terrorists" yeah right, nice try.

[afriend]

So what constitutes being a man to you? Did he not have his own mind?

Then what's with the 'you have to be 15 to be brought to trial'? Is it for celebrities? Or aliens?

Did he not have his own mind? Could he not decipher that what he was doing would have a consequence?

Yeah, I call it freedom fighting.

Yes he was indeed a man, what age would the Quran classify a woman to be a woman or a man to be a man?

At the age of puberty...Do you have proof that he was at the age of puberty when he commited the crime?

Listen buddy, it's easy just to talk. Try putting yourself in his shoes. A 'civilised' World Power comes to your country (in this instance, it's your beloved America [:cry:]) and blows it to bits, including the statue of liberty.

[MTAFFI]

Wait a second, he was arrested for fighting against American troops invading a foreign country in war. Wouldn't that make him a geurilla fighter instead of a terrorist? I geuss this is another one of America's "brainwashing" tactics to justify their actions: "see we' were only fighting terrorists" yeah right, nice try.

Perhaps you failed to read the article, he might be a guerilla fighter if he actually was a citizen of that country, how about he was from Canada, who is the one who is "brainwashed" now.... Seems you are only trained to read what suits you

Then what's with the 'you have to be 15 to be brought to trial'? Is it for celebrities? Or aliens?

Yeah, I call it freedom fighting.

At the age of puberty...Do you have proof that he was at the age of puberty when he commited the crime?

Listen buddy, it's easy just to talk. Try putting yourself in his shoes. A 'civilised' World Power comes to your country (in this instance, it's your beloved America [:cry:]) and blows it to bits, including the statue of liberty. I don't know about you, but I'd throw a grenade or two to show express my feelings.

Who says you have to be 15 to be brought to trial in military court?

He had all the freedom a man can get in Canada

Do you know that he wasnt yet in puberty? In any case if he wasnt then I would think he could be classified as a freak of nature at 15, and not only that but what was he doing fighting in another country?

This is war my friend, and if he didnt want to be treated in this manner he should have stayed in Canada and helped his brother get around.
As for your fourth paragraph see above, no one came to his country, he went to the troops. Also please note that Afghanistan was invaded for good reason, the civilians there arent even fighting the Americans, the former ruling party is fighting the US, and losing I might add.

[Cognescenti]

...
Listen buddy, it's easy just to talk. Try putting yourself in his shoes. A 'civilised' World Power comes to your country (in this instance, it's your beloved America [:cry:]) and blows it to bits, including the statue of liberty. I don't know about you, but I'd throw a grenade or two to show express my feelings.

A number of observations:

1) He wasn't defending his country..unless I am mistaken and Khost is somewhere in Canada.

2) I would have some sympathy if he were out plowing a poppy field, never read a newspaper or held a political thought and the Americans came in and shot up his Grandma's house.

3) If he went half way around the world to join Al Quaeda how can you pretend he was simply swept up in the action?

4) Al Quaeda were not lawful combatants in this affair. He was not acting on behalf of the "government" or people of Afghanistan.

5) He was apparently mature enough that his cynnical Al Quaeda buds let him handle land mines and IED's.

6) The government of Canada, which has vigorously intervened in representing other Canadian citizens seems to be handling this chap with a ten foot pole. That should give you pause.

Now..all that being said, I don't think a 15 year old can really have a mature political perspective, so I have do have some sympathy re his age and judgement at the time, but this also brings up the point of wheter AQ should ask for birth certificates when boys show up for martyrdom classes. I think I know why they dont. It isn't all that easy to find martyrs, plus the 30 somethings have to stay alive so they can give the orders and shoot the propaganda videos.

[Muezzin]

Dunno about American law (which the guy was tried under), but British law regards people older than the age of 10 as responsible for their own actions. If he was like nine or something when he allegedly threw the grenade, then I'd be able to understand all the 'he's just a kid' stuff.

I'm not agreeing with anything, I'm just stating the reality of the situation.

[MTAFFI]

Dunno about American law (which the guy was tried under), but British law regards people older than the age of 10 as responsible for their own actions. If he was like nine or something when he allegedly threw the grenade, then I'd be able to understand all the 'he's just a kid' stuff.

I'm not agreeing with anything, I'm just stating the reality of the situation.

If he were 9 I would change my stance as well, but at the same time, he probably wouldnt have done this at 9

[Abdul Fattah]

Perhaps you failed to read the article, he might be a guerilla fighter if he actually was a citizen of that country, how about he was from Canada, who is the one who is "brainwashed" now.... Seems you are only trained to read what suits you

I fail to see what nationality has to do with this. My point was that the actions he undertake, regardless of his nationality, were actions that any dictionary would classify as guerrilla fighting, not as terrorism.

[Cognescenti]

I fail to see what nationality has to do with this. My point was that the actions he undertake, regardless of his nationality, were actions that any dictionary would classify as guerrilla fighting, not as terrorism.

Nope. You need to understand why he was in Afghanistan in the first place. Was he fighting the Russians? Nope..they're gone. Gengis Khan?

He was training in an Al Quaeda camp for a future terror action. We simply declined to allow him to pick the time or place.

[Bittersteel]

how the hell did he get there?I am kind of worried if Muslim males the young ones are recruited by al-Qaida;it will harm interests across the Islamic world.
this needs to be stopped somehow.
I don't know whether this was wrong.US forces are in Afghanistan for a really good reason,unlike in Iraq.

[Talha777]

So he threw a grenade in self-defense of the Muslim resistance and he gets charged with murder? He is not a murderer, he is a brave warrior, may Allah Taala help him in his distress. Ameen.

[Cognescenti]

The US is simultaneously criticized for not closing Gi'tmo and for trying the inmates. That hardly seems consistent.

What do you who make both criticisms expect us to do? Don't just say.."let them go" because there are major nutters among them. Many have been repatriated, some will be found to have unprovable cases during their tribunal and will be repatriated (if their own country will take them) and a few will face even more unpleasant consequences when they get home to governments who aren't too happy with Al Quaeda. Many of them are going to have to be incarcerated for very long periods of time.

[MTAFFI]

I fail to see what nationality has to do with this. My point was that the actions he undertake, regardless of his nationality, were actions that any dictionary would classify as guerrilla fighting, not as terrorism.

guer·ril·la or gue·ril·la (gə-rĭl'ə) Pronunciation Key
n. A member of an irregular, usually indigenous military or paramilitary unit operating in small bands in occupied territory to harass and undermine the enemy, as by surprise raids.

now I realize that this says usually, but actually it doesnt matter what type of fighter he is, he fought against our troops, so he is the enemy, now he is caught and now he must die. he was fighting with the terrorist so therefore he is the terrorist.

[MTAFFI]

So he threw a grenade in self-defense of the Muslim resistance and he gets charged with murder? He is not a murderer, he is a brave warrior, may Allah Taala help him in his distress. Ameen.

isnt it fortunate that you dont make the rules? Really I dont even see the need for a trial or the need to have held him for this long, they should have just executed him on the battlefield

[MTAFFI]

how the hell did he get there?I am kind of worried if Muslim males the young ones are recruited by al-Qaida;it will harm interests across the Islamic world.
this needs to be stopped somehow.
I don't know whether this was wrong.US forces are in Afghanistan for a really good reason,unlike in Iraq.

I think he came from a family that made this their purpose in life, his brother is paralyzed, his dad is dead, etc. sad really that he didnt even get a chance to see the other side of things, too late now though I am afraid

[Cognescenti]

I think he came from a family that made this their purpose in life, his brother is paralyzed, his dad is dead, etc. sad really that he didnt even get a chance to see the other side of things, too late now though I am afraid

Where is his story? I am interested to see how a 15 yr old ends up in this kind of situation. His poor decisions had to have been enabled by adults who should have kept his interests in mind.

[MTAFFI]

Where is his story? I am interested to see how a 15 yr old ends up in this kind of situation. His poor decisions had to have been enabled by adults who should have kept his interests in mind.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/khadr/
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...o_a_gitmo_cell

if you google him you can find out all sorts of things about his crazy family

[snakelegs]

hopefully the rest of the dogs in that prison will get tried as well, get them off my tax dollars and put them to sleep or let them go (if innocent)

dogs? put them to sleep?
if you have let your enemy do this to your heart, your enemy has won.
condolences.

[Tania]

Glad he is getting his trial hopefully ..get them off my tax dollars and put them to sleep or let them go (if innocent)

I think everything can be said with a proper vocabulary. At least if you are pretending to be a christian. I salute your gesture to wonder how many civilians are daily basis killed from your tax money. May be in future you will take some measures to save lifes too.

[MTAFFI]

dogs? put them to sleep?
if you have let your enemy do this to your heart, your enemy has won.
condolences.

as is repeatedly said over and over to me on this forum, this is a war, there is no peace in war, why should I feel sorry for this guy? He is the enemy, I hope he and is family realize their fight has been lost and he will pay for what he did. War is Hell, if this were a US citizen (nick Berg), who isnt EVEN A SOLDIER, there would be people all over this forum telling me how it is war and should be expected, just my way of giving back

[MTAFFI]

I think everything can be said with a proper vocabulary. At least if you are pretending to be a christian. I salute your gesture to wonder how many civilians are daily basis killed from your tax money. May be in future you will take some measures to save lifes too.

I am not a traditional christian and maybe you shouldnt look at everyones religion to classify what type of person they are (do you ever think that could be the problem with what is going on in the world today?) As far as civilians killed on my tax dollars I assume you speak of Iraq or Afghan, to this I respond, it is your people who are killing the civilians, not my tax dollars, and afghan is a legitimate war in my mind and I am glad we are there, and to my knowledge the US has killed far less civilians than the people they fight there as well. Maybe if I shout God is Great when he is executed that would make things better, would that suit your proper vocab?

[Tania]

I am not a traditional christian and maybe you shouldnt look at everyones religion to classify what type of person they are (do you ever think that could be the problem with what is going on in the world today?) ...Maybe if I shout God is Great when he is executed that would make things better, would that suit your proper vocab?

I don't know what kind of christian are you and what is this traditional christian either.:X
You shall not take
the name of the LORD your God in vain. - TEN COMMANDMENTS

"In times past, cruel practices were commonly used by legitimate governments to maintain law and order, often without protest from the Pastors of the Church, who themselves adopted in their own tribunals the prescriptions of Roman law concerning torture. Regrettable as these facts are, the Church always taught the duty of clemency and mercy. She forbade clerics to shed blood. In recent times it has become evident that these cruel practices were neither necessary for public order, nor in conformity with the legitimate rights of the human person. On the contrary, these practices led to ones even more degrading. It is necessary to work for their abolition. We must pray for the victims and their tormentors." -2298

[Cognescenti]

I actually do have some sympathy for this young man after reading what his idiotic father did to him in his jihadi zeal. He has likely had his mind poisoned by his father, radical imams in Toronto who put these kind of ideas in his head and the shockingly cynnical use of him by Al Quaeda and the Taliban.

Imagine the tables were turned. Had he been captured by the Taliban he would have had a quick bullet to the head. With Al Queda, they might have entertained themselves for a bit with electric drills to his kneecaps then finished him off on videotape. Instead he was saved by a US medic.

The question is what do you do with him now? He is damaged goods. People that should have acted in his best interest have instead created a monster. How long does it take for a monster to not be a monster? Do you think his old neighbors in Toronto want him back? How about the current Afghan government? He is not Afghani and would likely be the next "volunteer" to blow up some aid workers or some NATO troops. Would you get on a commercial airliner with this guy?

Let's get real. You guys want Gi'tmo closed? Fine, let's have some suggestions.

[MTAFFI]

I don't know what kind of christian are you and what is this traditional christian either.:X
You shall not take
the name of the LORD your God in vain. - TEN COMMANDMENTS

"In times past, cruel practices were commonly used by legitimate governments to maintain law and order, often without protest from the Pastors of the Church, who themselves adopted in their own tribunals the prescriptions of Roman law concerning torture. Regrettable as these facts are, the Church always taught the duty of clemency and mercy. She forbade clerics to shed blood. In recent times it has become evident that these cruel practices were neither necessary for public order, nor in conformity with the legitimate rights of the human person. On the contrary, these practices led to ones even more degrading. It is necessary to work for their abolition. We must pray for the victims and their tormentors." -2298

If you are interested in my beliefs or otherwise you are welcome to PM me to discuss it, I dont want to throw this thread off topic. Also as far as your quote, it is really kind of pointless since our society is a separation of church and state. Also how is saying "God is Great" taking the lords name in vain?

[snakelegs]

as is repeatedly said over and over to me on this forum, this is a war, there is no peace in war, why should I feel sorry for this guy? He is the enemy, I hope he and is family realize their fight has been lost and he will pay for what he did. War is Hell, if this were a US citizen (nick Berg), who isnt EVEN A SOLDIER, there would be people all over this forum telling me how it is war and should be expected, just my way of giving back

i was not talking about this guy or your need to feel sorry for him.
i was talking about you can think of other human beings as "dogs" that should "be put to sleep" - which is why i say again, if you have let your enemy do this to your heart - your enemy has won.
of course, once you can think of people as dogs, it doesn't matter that much if they die.

[Tania]

Also how is saying "God is Great" taking the lords name in vain?

I shout God is Great when he is executed that would make things better
Read your sentence!

[MTAFFI]

i was not talking about this guy or your need to feel sorry for him.
i was talking about you can think of other human beings as "dogs" that should "be put to sleep" - which is why i say again, if you have let your enemy do this to your heart - your enemy has won.
of course, once you can think of people as dogs, it doesn't matter that much if they die.

Snakelegs,

Honestly I cant argue with you much on this, I find you to be in most threads very respectful are caring for human life. However some people look at others differently and I suppose that is where we differ, over the past few weeks I have seen some things that have, to me at least, shown some of the people to be less than human, less than dog even. The idea of another one of these guys being put to death, quite frankly, puts a smile on my face, because it is one less psychopath that I have to worry about in this world. This is a war, people will die in war, it does not make me happy to see war or death, but when someone recieve just punishment for their deeds that makes me happy because it reassures me that evil does not go unpunished.

[Muezzin]

Stay on topic please everyone. Just deleted a bunch of spam which has nothing to do with the topic.