For those who live in Iran

[doodlebug]

Assalam alaykum

I watched a documentary last night about Iran and although I can wrap my arms around the anti-American graffiti that I saw, two things shocked and saddened me:

1) It showed boys on their first day of school (don't know if it's the same with the girls or not) and the very first thing they did before entering their first school experience was to chant "death to America, death to America, death to America". Then they went into the school building.

Does this really happen or was it just for the tv's benefit? (this was a Discovery channel documentary)

2) It showed that in the mosques, after prayers are completed, the people chant this same "death to America" chant as they leave the mosque.

How is that Islamic? I am reading about the life of our Prophet, saw, and the things that I see in this Islamically ruled country called Iran are so off the wall I just can't understand it. Our prophet, saw, would never condone this type of behavior so I have to wonder how Islamic this country called Iran truly is.

[Keltoi]

I think you'll find that in most cases, these chants and protests against America are organized by the particular regime. It is useful to deflect attention from the real problems facing that country. It has been used repeatedly by countries like Syria, Iran, North Korea, etc. If you can lay all the problems at the doorstep of the big mean superpower, people will start to blame that big superpower for their lack of an economy, their decaying healthcare systems, their infant death rate, and on and on.

[Pygoscelis]

That is certainly part of it.

Then the US plays right into that assigned role, as the hostile bogeyman out to destroy the people of the given country. The threats ("axis of evil" etc) and attacks on other countries by the US certainly solidifies the out-to-get-you image in the minds of the populace.

[guyabano]

Assalam alaykum

I watched a documentary last night about Iran and although I can wrap my arms around the anti-American graffiti that I saw, two things shocked and saddened me:

1) It showed boys on their first day of school (don't know if it's the same with the girls or not) and the very first thing they did before entering their first school experience was to chant "death to America, death to America, death to America". Then they went into the school building.

Does this really happen or was it just for the tv's benefit? (this was a Discovery channel documentary)

2) It showed that in the mosques, after prayers are completed, the people chant this same "death to America" chant as they leave the mosque.

How is that Islamic? I am reading about the life of our Prophet, saw, and the things that I see in this Islamically ruled country called Iran are so off the wall I just can't understand it. Our prophet, saw, would never condone this type of behavior so I have to wonder how Islamic this country called Iran truly is.

Sad to say, that these kinds of threads are always barely discussed. Why? Because it is always hurtful to accept the truth and most look away.
I admire your courage as beeing a muslim and having the guts to denounce these facts. It is a step in the good direction.

But back to topic: Yes, I believe what you say about those graffities and paroles they teach kids already in their youngest age. I saw plenty of uncut videos how kids are raised to become suicide bombers, load weapons, trained to kill people. I still have the links but I will not post them because I guess, I will be banned for exposing that.

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[KAding]

Sad to say, that these kinds of threads are always barely discussed. Why? Because it is always hurtful to accept the truth and most look away.
I admire your courage as beeing a muslim and having the guts to denounce these facts. It is a step in the good direction.

But back to topic: Yes, I believe what you say about those graffities and paroles they teach kids already in their youngest age. I saw plenty of uncut videos how kids are raised to become suicide bombers, load weapons, trained to kill people. I still have the links but I will not post them because I guess, I will be banned for exposing that.

We must be careful. Most of it is no doubt propaganda. I seriously doubt kids go to school every day and chant "Death to America", let alone learn how to load weapons. Remember, it is also in the Iranians advantage to display themselves as determined, strong and prepared.

When I was there 10 years ago I saw frequent public displays and drawings condemning the US and Britain. Yet among the population it seemed everyone was talking about the movie 'Titanic' and about pop music.

[doodlebug]

We must be careful. Most of it is no doubt propaganda. I seriously doubt kids go to school every day and chant "Death to America", let alone learn how to load weapons. Remember, it is also in the Iranians advantage to display themselves as determined, strong and prepared.

When I was there 10 years ago I saw frequent public displays and drawings condemning the US and Britain. Yet among the population it seemed everyone was talking about the movie 'Titanic' and about pop music.

Did you not read Aziz's post? He is from Iran and just confirmed that what I saw on tv was true.

[doodlebug]

That is certainly part of it.

Then the US plays right into that assigned role, as the hostile bogeyman out to destroy the people of the given country. The threats ("axis of evil" etc) and attacks on other countries by the US certainly solidifies the out-to-get-you image in the minds of the populace.

You mention the axis of evil.

What do you think of the phrase "the Great Satan", that they developed in the late 70's?:?

[AzizMostafa]

> Do you realize there are muslims in America?

1. Rectifying the misunderstanding:
Death to America means Death to the wrong US policies not Americans"
2. We are not anti-American Muslims+non-Muslims who oppose the policy of occupation+aggression ,
but anti-American + non-American Muslims who love the white house more than the black-stone.
3. We are peace to the peace-loving people regardless of their faith, color+race but hell to the war-mongers no matter where they come from.
_____________
Peace+Flowers

[KAding]

Did you not read Aziz's post? He is from Iran and just confirmed that what I saw on tv was true.

Oh right. I found his post a bit hard to follow. My mistake then :).

[MTAFFI]

> Do you realize there are muslims in America?

1. Rectifying the misunderstanding:
Death to America means Death to the wrong US policies not Americans"
2. We are not anti-American Muslims+non-Muslims who oppose the policy of occupation+aggression ,
but anti-American + non-American Muslims who love the white house more than the black-stone.
3. We are peace to the peace-loving people regardless of their faith, color+race but hell to the war-mongers no matter where they come from.
_____________
Peace+Flowers

Do you realize how the chant "death to america" makes you look to the rest of the world? It does not make you look as though you are wishing for peace... I love the white house and everything my government and country stands for, I may not agree with everything the white house does but what it stands for gives me great pride to be a part of my country. America is not a nation of warmongers, it is those we fight who are warmongers

[doodlebug]

> Do you realize there are muslims in America?

1. Rectifying the misunderstanding:
Death to America means Death to the wrong US policies not Americans"
2. We are not anti-American Muslims+non-Muslims who oppose the policy of occupation+aggression ,
but anti-American + non-American Muslims who love the white house more than the black-stone.
3. We are peace to the peace-loving people regardless of their faith, color+race but hell to the war-mongers no matter where they come from.
_____________
Peace+Flowers

Ok....your posts are a little hard to follow but I'm starting to understand I think.

How do you differentiate between a muslim American who loves the white house more than Allah? I mean how would you know out of the millions of us who exist, which one loves anything over the One God? Does your country have a list of who's who and how we voted or something?

See that's my whole problem with generalizing. We are all individuals and currently we are headed by a leader who just could care less what we think. When a certain Democrat was asked what they will do when Bush vetos the bill that will lower funding and make the troops pull out of Iraq, this Democrat said that they will pass another bill, and another, and another. The point is that the majority of Americans want this to stop but we happen to have a leader that's just on a power trip.

Getting back to the OP though, how on earth are we ever to have a dialogue between our two countries when you teach your kids to shout "death to America"? :?

[doodlebug]

Do you realize how the chant "death to america" makes you look to the rest of the world? It does not make you look as though you are wishing for peace... I love the white house and everything my government and country stands for, I may not agree with everything the white house does but what it stands for gives me great pride to be a part of my country. America is not a nation of warmongers, it is those we fight who are warmongers

Well I have to disagree here......Bush is making our nation look like we're war mongers. And I"m almost positive that you don't love the white house and the USA over your love for God right? That is his point (I think..)

[MTAFFI]

Well I have to disagree here......Bush is making our nation look like we're war mongers. And I"m almost positive that you don't love the white house and the USA over your love for God right? That is his point (I think..)

You are correct, I love my God over my country. To some Bush may make us look like war mongers, but those that we are fighting against in Iraq (not just an average citizen, but an actual terrorist) are far worse than the US could ever attempt to be. To me people that shout "Death to America" seem like war mongers, I dont think I have ever seen a rally in the US with people shouting "Death to Iran" or any other country for that matter. It is very insulting and quite frankly it is very provoking.

(Was the show you watched called Iran: The Most Dangerous Nation)

[Cognescenti]

> Do you realize there are muslims in America?

1. Rectifying the misunderstanding:
Death to America means Death to the wrong US policies not Americans"
2. We are not anti-American Muslims+non-Muslims who oppose the policy of occupation+aggression ,
but anti-American + non-American Muslims who love the white house more than the black-stone.
3. We are peace to the peace-loving people regardless of their faith, color+race but hell to the war-mongers no matter where they come from.
_____________
Peace+Flowers

1. confusing+hard+to+understand

"Death to America means Death to the wrong US policies not Americans"

Aha! Must be another one of those Farsi to English translation uncertainties.

"Death to America" is too concrete. Try "We wish to express our strong dissatisfaction with the foreign policy intitiatives of the government of the United States going back at least to the Eishenhower admsinistration, but we offer peace and flowers to the American people. XOXO"

[doodlebug]

"Death to America" is too concrete. Try "We wish to express our strong dissatisfaction with the foreign policy intitiatives of the government of the United States going back at least to the Eishenhower admsinistration, but we offer peace and flowers to the American people. XOXO"

Now THAT's an opening to dialogue!!!!!!

See how much easier and so not full of hatred that is???:D

I really don't recall our beloved Prophet, saw, ordering his companions to chant "death to the Quraish", "death to the Quraish".........

[Chechnya]

well im no fan of iran but their "death to america" is mainly a vocal chant - whereas it is america and its allies who provides death, torture and kidnap right across the world

i know i prefer someone chanting death rather than someone providing it :thumbs_up

[doodlebug]

You are correct, I love my God over my country. To some Bush may make us look like war mongers, but those that we are fighting against in Iraq (not just an average citizen, but an actual terrorist) are far worse than the US could ever attempt to be. To me people that shout "Death to America" seem like war mongers, I dont think I have ever seen a rally in the US with people shouting "Death to Iran" or any other country for that matter. It is very insulting and quite frankly it is very provoking.

(Was the show you watched called Iran: The Most Dangerous Nation)

I honestly don't know what shows I watched. I have "on demand" with Comcast and when I clicked on "top picks" they had an entire section on Iran and I watched about 5 or 6 Discovery specials dealing with the topic. I think 3 covered before, during and after the hostages were taken in 1979 and then one covered the Canadian journalist who was beaten to death for filming the outside of a prison while a demonstration was going on (very sad and they refused to send the body back to Canada and even forced her mother who stated as much on the documentary to sign something saying that she wanted her body to remain in Iran) and then the last one where Ted Koppel interviewed many of the citizens there. That last one is the one where they showed the school children being taught how to shout out "death to America" and where they showed the people inside the masjid shouting the same.

It was very interesting and I definitely can see how the people wanted a revolution in the late 70's but I still can't justify them kidnapping innocent people in the name of Islam. I mean they overthrew the government so they got their wish supposedly, though a few of the hostage takers were videotaped saying that the type of government that is in power now is not what they were aiming for. But even if they absolutely hated the US for what they did in putting the Shah in power, which I totally agree was very wrong to do, wouldn't it have been more "islamic" to pursue diplomatic measures to deal with the things they disagree on? Our prophet, saw, has given us many many examples of diplomacy and fairness in dealing with tribes that he disagreed with and who even were opressing him.......aren't we supposed to follow his example, per the Quran?


I also can totally understand the graffitti and the anger towards the US gov't but I cannot justify the religious leaders telling the people to shout out hatred in the masjids or in the Islamic schools. Grafitti is a form of expression from a person, in my opinion, who feels very strongly about a subject. But that person should come to his/her conclusions after careful contemplation looking at all sides of the picture. These poor kids don't even have a chance to make their mind up because they're so brainwashed from day 1!! And the most powerful people in their life, the religious leaders...people we should be looking up to for guidance, are telling them the same thing!!!

It's like a no win situation for any dialogue and without dialogue what is the other option? Sanctions? Obviously that's not working since other countries are giving them what we were giving them for 1/2 the price. The only other option, unfortunately is war.

[doodlebug]

well im no fan of iran but their "death to america" is mainly a vocal chant - whereas it is america and its allies who provides death, torture and kidnap right across the world

i know i prefer someone chanting death rather than someone providing it :thumbs_up

Well so would I. That's not the point. The point is that this is supposedly an Islamic state and the leaders of this state are telling the people to shout hatred. How is that Islam?

[Keltoi]

The only other option, unfortunately is war.

God forbid

[Chechnya]

Well so would I. That's not the point. The point is that this is supposedly an Islamic state and the leaders of this state are telling the people to shout hatred. How is that Islam?

well its not an islamic state so the question doesnt really stand

as for shouting hatred, the leaders dont need to encourage anyone to shout hatred against the US - the US does a good job at creating that hatred itself

[MTAFFI]

the US does a good job at creating that hatred itself

as do many muslims, the door swings both ways. It is so easy to condemn america on an islamic site, take a look at other sites where people like america, there are many of them. I dont know who is hated more the US and western society or the middle east and muslims

[Sami Zaatari]

free speech folks right? countless of americans say death to Islam!!!!!!! and i have saved text of them doing so, so ya know if they can say death to Islam iran can say death to america :), why not? free speech right?

[snakelegs]

free speech folks right? countless of americans say death to Islam!!!!!!! and i have saved text of them doing so, so ya know if they can say death to Islam iran can say death to america :), why not? free speech right?

yep.
but i think the OP's concern was, how islamic is it to teach children to hate and what would the prophet think about it.

[doodlebug]

well its not an islamic state so the question doesnt really stand

as for shouting hatred, the leaders dont need to encourage anyone to shout hatred against the US - the US does a good job at creating that hatred itself

It calls itself an Islamic state so I guess therein lied my confusion.

My problem with it isn't so much people expressing their hatred...I'm cool with that :) I grew up in the 70's and have been in my share of demonstrations. :D

What I'm not cool with though is how a country can call itself Islamic and then have its leaders insist that their people shout hatred at the masjids and in schools.

The people who have no clue about Islam see this and automatically say, "see????? THAT is what your crazy religion teaches!!!!".

Like I don't have enough roadblocks in my way and so these so called Islamic countries have to put up more for me??? UUUUUUGH.

Again....I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with freedom of speech. I think it's great when I see people in other countries with picket signs against this or that. Just because I was born and raised here doesn't mean I'm a robot who gets dissed each time I see a "i hate Bush" or "i hate america" sign. What I hate though is people hijacking my religion to support their cause, whatever it may be.

[doodlebug]

free speech folks right? countless of americans say death to Islam!!!!!!! and i have saved text of them doing so, so ya know if they can say death to Islam iran can say death to america :), why not? free speech right?

Not so free when they're being ordered to do it.

Not so free if that phrase has been drilled into their heads since preschool.

Freedom of speech does not exist in Iran. I'd say go ask the Candadian who tried to cover the demonstration that happened outside of a prison, but she was beaten to death for trying to express her freedom of speech.

VERY big difference between Americans who do not get arrested for burning the American flag, and Iranians who are ordered from age 5 to shout "death to America, death to Israel". Try putting a few college kids in a group saying "death to Iran, death to the Ayatolla" and see if they're still comin' down for breakfast the next morning. :rollseyes

[Eric H]

Blessings and peace be with you doodlebug;

Although there is a real sense of conflict between Iran and America, I admire your determination to search for a more peaceful and Islamic solution. The bottom line is we are all created by the same God, and we need to acknowledge this.

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric

[AzizMostafa]

Taking advantage of this space.
Would like to acknowledge US grace,
On Nations of different faith, color + race
in overcoming what they face.

US did+does, phase by phase,
Place Kings and replace.
Chase rootless from occupied place,
the Removers of tracks with erase.
Send homeless in their place,
by proving that which has no trace.

To keep the Cone on its base
Go ahead and setup US base,
east+west, in every space,
To stay in defense, just in case.
Make enemy taste shameful Disgrace!
______________________________
Sorry for not finding better phrase

[Link]

Al-Mawt Al-Mawt Al-Mawt Al-Israel. al-mawt al-mawt al-mawt al-America.

The chants heard in southern lebanon aswell. :)

You keep being all "akhlaqy" grow your beards, go to your halaqas, do whatever you do and o yeah keep saying "we follow the Rasool" (btw wasn't the Rasool (pbuh) the one who destroyed idols in society and freed people from it, wasn't the Rasool (pbuh) who struggled, suffered, and fought?) and die on whatever you believe is the right religion.

We gonna fight the dajal till it's expelled from the world forever. We don't need ne you guys to preach to us with "did the Rasool (pbuh) do that?". Please.

The Rasool (pbuh) message is in found in the blood of Hussain (as). The sooner you realize that, the better it is for all the oppressed.

[Muezzin]

Notice: A certain post was deleted for being inappropriate. I also deleted the four or five posts replying to it.

That is certainly part of it.

Then the US plays right into that assigned role, as the hostile bogeyman out to destroy the people of the given country. The threats ("axis of evil" etc) and attacks on other countries by the US certainly solidifies the out-to-get-you image in the minds of the populace.

Holy moley, I agree with you on something! :D Rogue states label superpowers as bogeymen as well as provoking them, then superpowers start fulfilling the role for whatever reason whilst calling rogue states evil and provoking them in so doing, thus perpetuating the cycle.

I don't know about Americans (if we're working on the somewhat faulty assumption that all Americans are automatically non-Muslim) saying 'death to Islam', but doodlebug is right, it's not very Islamic to chant 'Death to' such and such country. It's also not very Islamic to justify wrongdoings because another party is also committing a wrong - it's like me saying 'I refuse to do my homework because none of my classmates do theirs! Why should I?!'

[Link]

Not very ISlamic. The Quran tells Mohammad (pbuh) and the believers to anounce to the disbelievers that they will be defeated and destroyed.

With addition to that, it's been promised in the Quran. So if we hope out loud what has already been promised in the Quran, it's anti-Islamic??

LOL. Your wussy attitude is what is anti-Islamic.

US is the mother of all taghoots, and Quran says to reject and abolish the taghoot. Remember message was not only for some arab tribes but whole mankind and jinn.

[Muezzin]

Not very ISlamic. The Quran tells Mohammad (pbuh) and the believers to anounce to the disbelievers that they will be defeated and destroyed.

With addition to that, it's been promised in the Quran. So if we hope out loud what has already been promised in the Quran, it's anti-Islamic??

LOL. Your wussy attitude is what is anti-Islamic.

US is the mother of all taghoots, and Quran says to reject and abolish the taghoot. Remember message was not only for some arab tribes but whole mankind and jinn.

Somebody needs a time out, and is lucky he has not received a warning and/or a smack upside the head for, ahem, 'disrespecting an LI official'.

Carry on.

[Allah-creation]

i agree Muslims shouldn't act cowardly.

[Chuck]

The Quran tells Mohammad (pbuh) and the believers to anounce to the disbelievers that they will be defeated and destroyed.

Well it is not same as Death to Makkans. In war armies announce to each other that they will be defeated and destroyed, however, announcement in Quran is different. In Quran it was giving a prophecy and moral support to muslims that Allah is on their side and victory will be theirs as it is planned by Allah.

However, muslims were commanded to not say bad names to the gods of the pagans even though makkan pagans insulted the beliefs of muslims, and there were also guidelines on the conduct in confrontations. This is not wussy attitude, it is just being muslims and the difference between strong believer and non-believer. Being macho doesn't mean victory.

[Darkseid]

Iran has yet to realize that it too is an Empire. But it is mainly upset at America for siding with Saddam during much of the fighting between Saddam and Iran.

Well it is not same as Death to Makkans. In war armies announce to each other that they will be defeated and destroyed, however, announcement in Quran is different. In Quran it was giving a prophecy and moral support to muslims that Allah is on their side and victory will be theirs as it is planned by Allah.

However, muslims were commanded to not say bad names to the gods of the pagans even though makkan pagans insulted the beliefs of muslims, and there were also guidelines on the conduct in confrontations. This is not wussy attitude, it is just being muslims and the difference between strong believer and non-believer. Being macho doesn't mean victory.

Yes but as long as they remain true muslims that Allah will remain on their side.

One can always call one's self a muslim under false pretenses and it doesn't mean that he or she is a muslim.

[Pygoscelis]

Holy moley, I agree with you on something!

I'm pretty sure you are not allowed to agree with me on anything. Its a sure sign of the apocalypse or something. I'm sure there is a sunnah or something that says thou shalt not agree with Pygoscelis. :D

:D Rogue states label superpowers as bogeymen as well as provoking them, then superpowers start fulfilling the role for whatever reason whilst calling rogue states evil and provoking them in so doing, thus perpetuating the cycle.

Exactly. Axis of Evil and Great Satan are two sides of the same coin.

[Pygoscelis]

Not very ISlamic. The Quran tells Mohammad (pbuh) and the believers to anounce to the disbelievers that they will be defeated and destroyed.

So um, you really ARE out to destroy us? That kind of makes George Bush and his cronnies with their "fight them there or they will come kill us here" propaganda sound reasonable.

[Darkseid]

So um, you really ARE out to destroy us? That kind of makes George Bush and his cronnies with their "fight them there or they will come kill us here" propaganda sound reasonable.

It is funny that he said the Quran tells Muhammad.

Muhammad was dead when the Quran was invented. Muhammad didn't write the Quran, Muhammad wouldn't even recognize the Quran if he had saw it, and he definitely didn't read the Quran.

If you asked Muhammad about the Quran, he would say, "WHAT?!"

[doodlebug]

It is funny that he said the Quran tells Muhammad.

Muhammad was dead when the Quran was invented. Muhammad didn't write the Quran, Muhammad wouldn't even recognize the Quran if he had saw it, and he definitely didn't read the Quran.

If you asked Muhammad about the Quran, he would say, "WHAT?!"

I don't agree with him but I have to say I knew what he meant by the phrase. Sure he didn't write the Quran but he most certainly would immediately recognize the verses if they were read to him since they were written down verbatim by many who had memorized it and agreed on it word for word.

[England]

Iran is a threat, no doubt about it. Teaching kids the chants of "death to America" is just going to breed terrorism. Some would say that the Iranian president is also a joke to his religion

[lilah]

Assalam alaykum

I watched a documentary last night about Iran and although I can wrap my arms around the anti-American graffiti that I saw, two things shocked and saddened me:

1) It showed boys on their first day of school (don't know if it's the same with the girls or not) and the very first thing they did before entering their first school experience was to chant "death to America, death to America, death to America". Then they went into the school building.

Does this really happen or was it just for the tv's benefit? (this was a Discovery channel documentary)

2) It showed that in the mosques, after prayers are completed, the people chant this same "death to America" chant as they leave the mosque.

How is that Islamic? I am reading about the life of our Prophet, saw, and the things that I see in this Islamically ruled country called Iran are so off the wall I just can't understand it. Our prophet, saw, would never condone this type of behavior so I have to wonder how Islamic this country called Iran truly is.

i have a hard time believing that you are falling for US media propaganda. if you want to know the condition of the iranian children, maybe you should take a visit to iran and see for yourself what's going on instead basing your opininion from a 1 hour tv show?

and you know what? maybe some good would come from the death of america as it exists today. look at what america has become in the last 10 years... historically, america has been a greater threat to the world. how can we, in our hearts not wish for our country to change, after what the government has done for it.

All around the world, people's lives are being turned upside down because of this country, and all we do sit in our fancy air conditioned homes and shake our heads in judgement based on what we see on a TV show or the news. It's so easy for the media to perpetuate the image that arabs/muslims/iranians are radical extremists....all they have to is show some dark skin man holding an AK47...and the average jo american believes it. there is no 'terrorism threat' there are no major al quadea cells anywhere. this is government propaganda that has emerged post 9/11 to be used as a fear tactic to control the masses.

I suggest my fellow muslim brothers and sisters to read surah Al Nas (114) on a daily basis...insha allah, reading this will help you see through the lies deception that the media and the government makes you believe.

Now THAT's an opening to dialogue!!!!!!

See how much easier and so not full of hatred that is???

I really don't recall our beloved Prophet, saw, ordering his companions to chant "death to the Quraish", "death to the Quraish".........

Our beloved prophet (pbuh) may not have chanted 'death to quraish' but he did ask Allah (swt) to send punishment on them

Holy Hadith (Sahih Bukhari)
Volume 1, Book 9, Number 499
Narrated 'Amr bin Maimuin:
'Abdullah bin Mas'ud said, "While Allah's Apostle was praying beside the Ka'ba, there were some Quraish people sitting in a gathering. One of them said, 'Don't you see this (who does deeds just to show off)? Who amongst you can go and bring the dung, blood and the abdominal contents (intestines, etc). of the slaughtered camels of the family of so and so and then wait till he prostrates and put that in between his shoulders?' The most unfortunate amongst them ('Uqba bin Abi Mu'ait) went (and brought them) and when Allah's Apostle prostrated, he put them between his shoulders. The Prophet remained in prostration and they laughed so much so that they fell on each other. A passerby went to Fatima, who was a young girl in those days. She came running and the Prophet was still in prostration. She removed them and cursed upon the Quraish on their faces. When Allah's Apostle completed his prayer, he said, 'O Allah! Take revenge on Quraish.' He said so thrice and added, 'O Allah! take revenge on 'Amr bin Hisham, 'Utba bin Rabia, Shaiba bin Rabi'a, Al-Walid bin'Utba, Umaiya bin Khalaf, 'Uqba bin Abi Mu'ait and 'Umar a bin Al-Walid." Abdullah added, "By Allah! I saw all of them dead in the battle field on the day of Badr and they were dragged and thrown in the Qalib (a well) at Badr: Allah's Apostle then said, 'Allah's curse has descended upon the people of the Qalib (well).

Please, lets spend less time judging our brothers and sisters, and more time defending them...

[England]

It doesn't matter what the Quran or Surah or whatever it is says. The most important thing is the actions of people.

[lilah]

It is funny that he said the Quran tells Muhammad.

Muhammad was dead when the Quran was invented. Muhammad didn't write the Quran, Muhammad wouldn't even recognize the Quran if he had saw it, and he definitely didn't read the Quran.

If you asked Muhammad about the Quran, he would say, "WHAT?!"

your ignorance will destroy you if you're not carefull. i suggest you keep keep a tight lip over things you know nothing about, so that words spoken out of ignorance/jest/hatred don't come back to haunt you in the future.

a better suggestion is to open your heart and mind by getting better educated on Islam, but i know you'll just laugh and ignore me....and try to respond in a 'clever' way.....in that case, my first suggestion is better for you, keep in mind your words does nothing to hurt islam...but hurts you instead.

[doodlebug]

i have a hard time believing that you are falling for US media propaganda. if you want to know the condition of the iranian children, maybe you should take a visit to iran and see for yourself what's going on instead basing your opininion from a 1 hour tv show?

Um................that would be a wee bit difficult since Ted Koppel was the last US citizen who was given a visa to Iran. Might want to get a little refresher course on your current events before posting on them.

and you know what? maybe some good would come from the death of america as it exists today. look at what america has become in the last 10 years... historically, america has been a greater threat to the world. how can we, in our hearts not wish for our country to change, after what the government has done for it.

Wishing in my heart for the gov't to change is a nice butterfly and rainbow thought but in actuality the only thing a US Citizen can do to make change is to protest, vote and pray. I have done all three. In order for Iran to invoke change they can enter into dialogue. Insha Allah they will be doing this very thing soon but they really need to open up the diplomatic channels a heck of a lot more before any good can come of this. Kidnapping and torturing US Embassy employees is not the way to open up the gates of compromise.

All around the world, people's lives are being turned upside down because of this country, and all we do sit in our fancy air conditioned homes and shake our heads in judgement based on what we see on a TV show or the news.

I don't have a fancy air conditioned home. :X

It's so easy for the media to perpetuate the image that arabs/muslims/iranians are radical extremists....all they have to is show some dark skin man holding an AK47...and the average jo american believes it.

This documentary was not perpetuating any image about arabs/muslims. They were simply showing how life in Iran is. Iranians are not Arabs, they are Persians.:rollseyes

there is no 'terrorism threat' there are no major al quadea cells anywhere. this is government propaganda that has emerged post 9/11 to be used as a fear tactic to control the masses.

Tell that to the families in London, etc. that incurred casualties from these nonexistant terrorists post 9/11.

[lilah]

Um................that would be a wee bit difficult since Ted Koppel was the last US citizen who was given a visa to Iran. Might want to get a little refresher course on your current events before posting on them.

tell me, did the documentary show these little children learning math and science in schools? maybe the documentary showed these children learning 5 pillars of islam in the masajids? maybe the chant 'death to america' draws more sponser $$$. How many american advertisers would sponser a show that shows a democraticly stable iran? has Ted Koppel done a docmentary on the 'tolerance' that exists in isreal?

i am current on my world events...but i don't get it from TV. I don't trust the major evening news/anchors shows just as i don't trust the news from the 700 club. I remember a few years back, the 700 club had a little piece on the 'radical' afgans breeding terrorist children in dirty rooms that were supposed to be schools....and the expose showed children reciting quran in a trance like state.

Wishing in my heart for the gov't to change is a nice butterfly and rainbow thought but in actuality the only thing a US Citizen can do to make change is to protest, vote and pray. I have done all three. In order for Iran to invoke change they can enter into dialogue. Insha Allah they will be doing this very thing soon but they really need to open up the diplomatic channels a heck of a lot more before any good can come of this. Kidnapping and torturing US Embassy employees is not the way to open up the gates of compromise.

just like kidnapping our brothers and sending them to cuba? the US has no intention in talking to iran....sadly, i think they will attack iran regardless of what happens. They attacked iraq, the will attack iran, and after iran, they will try to attack syria. in my heart, i hope it won't happen...but i think it will

and just for arguements sake, can you send me reuters or ap sources verifying US Embassy employees have recently (in the last 2-3 years) have been kidnapped/tortured in Iran?

I don't have a fancy air conditioned home. :X

it was just an expression to say how most of us are lucky to be living the goodlife here at home while our brothers and sisters suffer in other countries. I avoid judging what i might here or see because only Allah knows best what is really happening.

This documentary was not perpetuating any image about arabs/muslims. They were simply showing how life in Iran is. Iranians are not Arabs, they are Persians.:rollseyes

i c... so just because they are Persians, it makes it ok....who cares if they are our brothers and sisters, right?

Tell that to the families in London, etc. that incurred casualties from these nonexistant terrorists post 9/11.

That was a criminal act perpetrated by criminals, just as is murder, bank roberies, and so on. but when it comes to crimes commited by middle easternish muslim looking men, then that is an act of terrorism.

Christian fanatic Eric Rudolph pleaded guilty in deadly bombings at the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta and a Birmingham abortion clinic. He justified the bombings by saying that Jesus would condone "militant action in defense of the innocent." And yet, to this day, nobody calls this man a 'terrorist' or a 'christian terrorist'. Theodore Kaczyinski is given the flashy label 'The Unabomber" sounds like some sort of superhero film you'd see in theaters.

Crime exists in all walks of life, and i'm not saying we live in a dream wonderland with sugar coated trees and pink bunnies that poop silver dollars.... there is some diabolical group out there hell bent on taking out the world, but there numbers are fewer than what is made out to be.

[doodlebug]

i'm not saying we live in a dream wonderland with sugar coated trees and pink bunnies that poop silver dollars.

:D :D :D :D


After this I don't want to argue with you, sister! I love that sentence!!!

peace

:statisfie

[Agnostic]

and i'm not saying we live in a dream wonderland with sugar coated trees and pink bunnies that poop silver dollars....

I have a word doc. that I copy and paste good quotes into, that one definitely makes the list. :)

Peace

[lilah]

:D :D :D :D


After this I don't want to argue with you, sister! I love that sentence!!!

peace

:statisfie

:statisfie

[Akil]

Iran has been and continues to be highly Nationalistic; the tactic the “Revolution” is trying now is the same one that Hitler’s Nazi party cowed all of Post WW1 Germany with. Instead of Iranians focusing on their economy, the money they each give to Hamas and Hezbollah, the increasing intolerance the Farsi Shia are showing the other 40% of Iran, the bloggers revolution, the talk of open rebellion from Arab’s on the frontier and the way Iran hides the fact that the Ayatollah is out of step with the growing middle class, the “Revolution” is attempting to unite Iran under a banner of fear, intolerance and hatred. It will fail.

[lilah]

Iran has been and continues to be highly Nationalistic; the tactic the “Revolution” is trying now is the same one that Hitler’s Nazi party cowed all of Post WW1 Germany with. Instead of Iranians focusing on their economy, the money they each give to Hamas and Hezbollah, the increasing intolerance the Farsi Shia are showing the other 40% of Iran, the bloggers revolution, the talk of open rebellion from Arab’s on the frontier and the way Iran hides the fact that the Ayatollah is out of step with the growing middle class, the “Revolution” is attempting to unite Iran under a banner of fear, intolerance and hatred. It will fail.

Heyyyy....sounds just like what's going on in America....

[QUOTE]America has been and continues to be highly Nationalistic; the tactic the "Republicans" is trying is the same as one that Hitler's Nazi party cowed all of Post WW1 Germany with. Instead of Americans focusing on their economy, the money they each give to Isreal and to Funding the War in Iraq, the increasing intolerance the neocons are showng to the other 90% of America, the internet revolution, the talk of rebellion from the Americans in the polls, and the way America hides the fact that King George is out of step with the entire country, the "Republicans" is attempting to unite Americans under a banner of fear, intolerance and hatred. It will fail.[QUOTE]

[Akil]

Ah semantical arguments with no facts or merit. Sweet. Also, way to go off topic >.<

BUSH R TEH EVIL!!!!!!!!oneoneoneone