Sarkozy- new president of France !!

[Amadeus85]

France looks to new Sarkozy era

France is preparing to enter a new political era, one day after choosing right-wing Nicolas Sarkozy to be the country's next president.

Previously a divisive cabinet minister, Mr Sarkozy won a clear election victory over Socialist opponent Segolene Royal.

Mr Sarkozy has pledged to boost the economy by creating jobs, liberalise employment laws, be tough on crime and control immigration.

He officially takes over from Jacques Chirac on 16 May.

Before then, campaign aides say Mr Sarkozy, 52, will spend a few days resting at an undisclosed location to finalise his government line-up and policy priorities.

On Monday, Mr Sarkozy revealed that his choice of prime minister would be Francois Fillon, who is currently Mr Sarkozy's senior political adviser.

Mr Sarkozy's remarks came during a telephone conversation with British Prime Minister Tony Blair.

The size of Sunday's election victory - a resounding win by 53% to 47% in a two-horse race, with a turnout of 85% - gives the new president real authority, correspondents say.

"We have to act, the French people expect it. They have given him a real mandate," chief of staff Claude Gueant told French radio.


France has given me everything, and now it is my turn to give back to France what France has given me
Nicolas Sarkozy



Mr Sarkozy is expected to quickly name a 15-strong cabinet for the start of his five-year term in office.

The first key hurdle for the new president will be nationwide parliamentary elections in June.

Securing a workable majority in the National Assembly would greatly ease the passage of Mr Sarkozy's planned reforms.

Early polling for those elections puts Mr Sarkozy's UMP party ahead of the Socialists by about six percentage points, the Reuters news agency reported.

Ms Royal's defeat was the Socialists' third successive presidential election loss, and the party is now expected to face calls for internal change.

Reform pledge

Mr Sarkozy has promised to try to reform France to face the challenges of the 21st century, and creating jobs is at the top of his agenda.


SARKOZY: KEY POLICIES
Exempt overtime (above 35 hours) from taxes and social security charges
Minimum sentences for repeat offenders, tougher sentences for juveniles
Selective immigration that favours arrival of qualified workers
Increase taxes on polluters
Oppose Turkish EU membership

He has pledged to bring unemployment down from 8.3% to below 5% by 2012.

During his first 100 days in office he is also expected to propose tax cuts and table legislation to keep trains running during strikes.

While he has said he will not end France's 35-hour working week, Mr Sarkozy proposes allowing staff to work overtime, as well as cutting restrictions on hiring and firing staff.

Known as a divisive figure from his years as a strict interior minister, Mr Sarkozy appears intent on a tough approach to law and order, favouring minimum sentences for repeat offenders and tougher sentences for juveniles.

He struck a conciliatory tone in his victory speech on Sunday evening, telling crowds in Paris and those watching around the country that he would be president "of all the French".

Himself the son of a Hungarian immigrant, Mr Sarkozy said: "France has given me everything, and now it is my turn to give back to France what France has given me."




Nevertheless, there were minor clashes with protesters in Paris and some other cities after the result was announced.

Several hundred rioters in the Place de la Bastille threw bottles and stones at police, shouting "Sarko-fascist".

Two police officers were injured in Nantes, where 1,000 demonstrators turned to violence. Arrests were made in half-a-dozen cities, but the trouble soon subsided.

The election result was widely welcomed outside France, with the US, EU, China and Japan offering congratulations to Mr Sarkozy.

The Turkish prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, was more cautious, saying he hoped Mr Sarkozy would review his opposition to Turkey joining the EU.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6631813.stm

[Encolpius]

...in a 53/47 split against Socialist Party candidate Ségolene Royal.

What do people here think of this?

[Amadeus85]

I personally think that Sarkozy is the correct man in the correct place.
He is better in every aspect than Segolene Royal.
He will improve french economy,
decrease the social expensive,
improve french position in world politics,
improve relationship with USA,
solve the immigration problem (by decreasing the amount of immigrating people)
stop further projects and plans with european constitution.

[Encolpius]

With you on the economy bits Aaron.

Also, surely the best way to help integrate disaffected youth in the banlieue is surely to do something about the département of Seine-Saint-Denis and its 14% unemployment...?

Then again, I'm no political scientist...

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[Amadeus85]

Sarkozy isn't afraid of saying unpopular and politicly uncorrect statements about immigrants.
Thats why european left is so angry that Sarkozy won. Some even said that new french president is fascist.Which is nonsense to me.
Sarkozy is right that nowadays , France should let come only those immigrants who can be useful to this country, and not let those who dont even know french or dont want to work and integrate with the french society.

[Keltoi]

I was happy with his election primarily because it will improve relations with the United States. That relationship has been horrible for quite some time.

[Encolpius]

I don't think the French and the US really had many differences though, I do think the Americans were a bit irritated at the French lack of desire to roll over and be McDisneyfied.

[Amadeus85]

I was happy with his election primarily because it will improve relations with the United States. That relationship has been horrible for quite some time.

Yes i agree with you Keltoi. Chirac would do anything to make Uncle Sam angry.
And Sarkozy, along with Angela Merkel seem like much more reasonable politics.
Only in Spain they have the greatest comedian among european politics +o(

[Fishman]

:sl:
France was fascist enough before Sarkozy got in. Look outside the marble-clad fantasy world of the Parisian City Centre, and you will see another world, filled with the people who had to build those monuments. It looks more like India or Brazil than a developed Western nation. And now we have a new fascist on the block, one who wants to degrade people's right to diversity by forcing them to 'intergrate' with French culture. I prefer the British and American systems, where you can speak, dress and believe what you want as long as nobody is hurt in the process.
:w:

[Pygoscelis]

Is it just my warped mind, or is this guy a political cartoonists dream come true?

[Fishman]

:sl:
I hope he will stop pulling the secular state trick. Why did they ban the Hijab because it is a religious symbol, whilst allowing huge billboards by the side of the road that advertise Christianity? When I went to France, every few minutes I would see a poster trying to encourage people to come to Church.
:w:

[Amadeus85]

:sl:
I hope he will stop pulling the secular state trick. Why did they ban the Hijab because it is a religious symbol, whilst allowing huge billboards by the side of the road that advertise Christianity? When I went to France, every few minutes I would see a poster trying to encourage people to come to Church.
:w:

Maybe because still majority of French are christians.:) And your statement makes me fun.
You complain that in christian majority country you see many christian symbols.
So should i also complain in muslim country that there are so many minaretes and mosques? :?

[Amadeus85]

Didn't he call the immigrants scumbags?

No. He called scumbags those who deserved this- hooligans who burned thousands of cars, building and schools.I would do the same.

[Encolpius]

Didn't he call the immigrants scumbags?

Not exactly. He referred to rioting youths in the banlieue of Paris as "racaille" or scumbags, for which he was reprimanded in the Council of Ministers. It was a pretty ill-thought out remark, I agree, and it was portrayed as a racist remark in certain sectors of the press because of the overwhelming majority of North Africans who lived in those areas.

It looks more like India or Brazil than a developed Western nation.

Yes, I have been to "le neuf trois." Yes, it's horrendous. But have you similarly been to the more deprived parts of London or New York? They're just as crumbling and ridden with unemployment and crime.

Also, the "Hijab ban" was, in fact, a ban on overt religious symbols in schools. It was seen as such though because the most publicised cases where it was invoked involved the Hijab. There's also no classes on religious studies in French lycées, but instead a compulsory philosophy class that students take in their final year of school.

There's no law prohibiting religious establishments from publicising themselves. I have seen posters for church groups, mosques, synagogues, all manner of places of worship.

Fishman, also, France is a secular state. It's been one for the entirety of the Fifth Republic as enshrined in the first article of the Constitution, and in previous Republics, since the Constitutional Law of 1905 after the Dreyfus affair. In France you are free to practice whatever belief you like and the State is prohibited from establishing a state religion. It respects all religions but establishes none.

[Amadeus85]

:sl:
And now we have a new fascist on the block, one who wants to degrade people's right to diversity by forcing them to 'intergrate' with French culture.
:w:

??????

LOL! When you come to one country, you must behave like guest, you must obey all the laws there and be grateful that you were embraced.Integrity to french culture isn't immigrants privelege.It's their duty.

If a immigrant doesnt like french culture, he can stay in his own country and practice his own religion and culture as he wants.
It's simple.
:D

[Muezzin]

Were the rumours I heard about this guy being a Fascist true or false?

[Amadeus85]

Were the rumours I heard about this guy being a Fascist true or false?

No Muezzin, Sarko is not a fascist. He is just conservative politicain that France needed from long time. And Sarkozy isnt afraid of using true and politicly uncorrect words. Thats why he was called a fascist by the eurpean Left. Leftists would call anybody a fascists who disagree with them, even me and you :) . Its their typical propaganda.

When i am against homosexual mirraiages and gay adoption- I am called a fascist
When i am against abortion and euthaniasia- I am called a fascist.
When i say that Europe is based on christian roots - I am called a fascist.
When i want an invocation to God in european constitution - i am called a fascist.

This is how it works dear Muezzin.

[Keltoi]

France just needed a reform candidate. What could be more reformist than electing a conservative candidate to lead a government that has been in a socialist malaise for too long. The economy is stagnant, falling way behind Germany. This could be the first step in a major overall of the French system, but that is probably too optimistic by the numbers of far-left socialists in France.

[Talha777]

I dont know why Turkey takes such exception to it not being wanted in the European Union. Our Holy Prophet Muhammad (Sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) said the Last Hour would not come until the Romans have formed the majority of mankind. This prophecy is being fulfilled right before our eyes as the European Union begins to grow and will possibly quite literally become a neo-Roman Empire, with a massive population and resources to dominate the world. Turkey as a nation is on the wrong path, and believes that Europeanization means progress, whereas it actually means moral death.

Regarding Sarkozy, he is on record for saying that Muslims need to "Assimilate" into French society, and he is extremely right wing and xenophobic, as well as staunchly pro-America. Europe is going through a new phase where it is becoming increasingly intolerant of Islam and Muslims. Increasingly, European countries are looking to immigration from Latin America and East Asia to fill in the vacuum that will be left by cutting down on Muslim immigration.

[Keltoi]

I dont know why Turkey takes such exception to it not being wanted in the European Union. Our Holy Prophet Muhammad (Sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) said the Last Hour would not come until the Romans have formed the majority of mankind. This prophecy is being fulfilled right before our eyes as the European Union begins to grow and will possibly quite literally become a neo-Roman Empire, with a massive population and resources to dominate the world. Turkey as a nation is on the wrong path, and believes that Europeanization means progress, whereas it actually means moral death.

Regarding Sarkozy, he is on record for saying that Muslims need to "Assimilate" into French society, and he is extremely right wing and xenophobic, as well as staunchly pro-America. Europe is going through a new phase where it is becoming increasingly intolerant of Islam and Muslims. Increasingly, European countries are looking to immigration from Latin America and East Asia to fill in the vacuum that will be left by cutting down on Muslim immigration.

I notice you state Sarkozy is "on the record" for saying Muslims need to assimilate into French society, but then you just follow through with the "right wing" and "xenophobic" accusations. Nothing about his statement about immigrants needing to assimilate is a "right wing" or "xenophobic" request. Sarkozy does find common ground with the United States in fighting terrorists and those that support them, but he is hardly "staunchly" pro-American either.

[Amadeus85]

[FONT="Arial

. Increasingly, European countries are looking to immigration from Latin America and East Asia to fill in the vacuum that will be left by cutting down on Muslim immigration.

Yes it is very good idea. This is what i call real multiculturalism. Sources of immigration must be much more divided than nowadays.
Europe shall let in only those immigrants who want to integrate.
The rest can stay in their homes.
By the way, Latinos and East Asians integrate quite well with western values.

[Hashim_507]

This man name Sarkozy will put France in jeapordy; he really should not be elected. Doesnt really effected muslim community in France; he will stand against hijab. All his promises is just another lying politician, their is no differances.

[Amadeus85]

This man name Sarkozy will put France in jeapordy; he really should not be elected. Doesnt really effected muslim community in France; he will stand against hijab. All his promises is just another lying politician, their is no differances.

No matter what, he was elected by the majority, so he should get his chance to show what he wants to improve.

[Lina]

:sl:

What a sad situation,

Immigrants got a raw deal in France.

I don't see any change in the banlieues, it's to great of a problem to tackle withing a few years.

It's a long term deal if you're trying to handle this.
Sarkozy is only making matters worse, i'm afraid.

He resembles P.Fortuyn.

Allahu A'lam.

[Lina]

I don’t think it’s a reasonable presumption to claim that ”immigrants got a raw deal in France.”

I’ll qualify that a bit by saying that if you’re an immigrant who insists on flouting the laws of France by presuming that you can torch cars on the streets, burn down buildings, create mayhem and destroy property without consequence then I would hope that those immigrants do get a raw deal.

I’ll put myself in the role of the victims of those crimes noted above who work for a living, pay taxes, value their life and property and are struggling to deal with the challenges of making a living.

It’s not all about you.

They do and did.
What happened in Clichy-sous-Bois was an explosion of all the hatred against immigrants. They had enough.
Police brutality during identity checks against immigrants is a fact.
In fact; In April 2005, Amnesty international referred to this in their annual report.

Don't you think that it won't backfire on you when you use violence instead of lending a hand and actually getting these people out of the horrible situation they are in, get them of the streets without using violence, create a healthy environment, being a part of the society.
Banlieues are the product of discrimination in many fields of social and economic life.
They're islolated from the main cities, that's enough proof that they have been forgotten a long time ago.
They are being pushed further outside the society.

Don't take on the victim role, you have and will always pay taxes no matter what the situation is. Please, as if you offered, it's your obligation.

If they got a chance to work for a living, they would.
Try finding a job as an immigrant.
Youth unemployment in the banlieus is more than 40 percent, three times the national average.
Do you really think that they enjoy vandalism, unemployment?
They are protesting against oppression and racism.

Insurance will cover, right?

[Hashim_507]

This is the end of France relations with the muslim nations. This man would not be friendly to muslim nations. His another Bush in europe, and does not want diversity in France.

[Goku]

No Muezzin, Sarko is not a fascist. He is just conservative politicain that France needed from long time. And Sarkozy isnt afraid of using true and politicly uncorrect words. Thats why he was called a fascist by the eurpean Left. Leftists would call anybody a fascists who disagree with them, even me and you :) . Its their typical propaganda.

When i am against homosexual mirraiages and gay adoption- I am called a fascist
When i am against abortion and euthaniasia- I am called a fascist.
When i say that Europe is based on christian roots - I am called a fascist.
When i want an invocation to God in european constitution - i am called a fascist.

This is how it works dear Muezzin.

I tend to find the right wing to be more intolerant and racist than the left. The left at least promotes human rights, diversity and multiculturalism, the left also get their share of insults from the right. I am neither right or left wing. :)

[Goku]

I heard Sarkozy brought 3 French Muslim groups together to form one of the biggest French Muslim organisations in France, but he was responsible for the indiscriminate sacking of some Muslims from airports though, hopefully things will work out for all the different cultural and religious groups in France. Though i do think Segolene Royal was more tolerant than Sarkozy.

[August]

Sarkozy will be fantastic for the immigrant and non-French minorities. Why? He will change the economic policies that make those people very hard to employ. By increasing economic opportunity and cutting down on the crippling regulations on business, they will provide many new jobs. I believe that many of the poor immigrant communities have unemployment rates near 40%. Of interest to this board should be his proposal for the government to help build new mosques, so that Muslims can be more fully integrated into French life. Sarkozy is hardly a right-winger, in the U.S. he would be considered very centrist. France needs a change, Sarko is it.

[Amadeus85]

This is the end of France relations with the muslim nations. This man would not be friendly to muslim nations. His another Bush in europe, and does not want diversity in France.

At last France would stop being so pro-arabic, and so hostile to Israel.

And who said that multiculturalism is good? :?

What good multiculturalism brought to Europe? :?

I think that multiculturalism died in Europe when Theo van Gogh , dutch director, was killed by algerian fanatic. And after that in Holland there was almost a civil war between muslims immigrants and natives. Mosques and churches were burned by both sides.

After immigrant riots in France, and suicide attacks in Madrit and London, european politics( at least some, but still too few) finally understood that multiculturalism promoted by Leftist organizations and parties was a big failure.

Multiculturalism brought only tensions in Europe.

[Amadeus85]

I tend to find the right wing to be more intolerant and racist than the left. The left at least promotes human rights, diversity and multiculturalism, the left also get their share of insults from the right. I am neither right or left wing. :)

You maybe don't notice that Left's attitudes are completely against islamic teachings-

Left promotes:
- homosexual marriages and adoption "laws" for gays and lesbians
-radical feminism
-euthanasia
-abortion
-radical separation of state and religion
-secularism and atheism.

I sometimes really wonder why most muslims In Europe vote for Left :?

[Chuck]

You maybe don't notice that Left's attitudes are completely against islamic teachings-

Left promotes:
- homosexual marriages and adoption "laws" for gays and lesbians
-radical feminism
-euthanasia
-abortion
-radical separation of state and religion
-secularism and atheism.[emphasis mine]

I sometimes really wonder why most muslims In Europe vote for Left :?

I wonder why secular people vote for the right.

[vpb]

I personally think that Sarkozy is the correct man in the correct place.
He is better in every aspect than Segolene Royal.
He will improve french economy,
decrease the social expensive,
improve french position in world politics,
improve relationship with USA,
solve the immigration problem (by decreasing the amount of immigrating people)
stop further projects and plans with european constitution.

lolllllll...i bet you have traveled to the future? recently watched Back To the Future?

[north_malaysian]

I've heard that Sarkozy is a pro-religious man, perhaps he'll give a little chance for Muslims to wear hijabs, Jews to wear kippahs and Sikhs to wear turbans at school.

[Muezzin]

Rather than listening to rumors and speculation, I actually did the remarkable chore of doing a search, finding the particulars on Sarkozy and coming to my own conclusion.

I don't appreciate sarcasm, dude.

[Amadeus85]

I've heard that Sarkozy is a pro-religious man, perhaps he'll give a little chance for Muslims to wear hijabs, Jews to wear kippahs and Sikhs to wear turbans at school.

Who knows , maybe you are right. I know that Sarkozy wants to fund building new mosques in France from state money.

[Lina]

I’ll leave it to you to make excuses for the lawlessness that afflicts these gangs. Let’s be honest though, there was a certain politico-religious attribute that was attributed to a majority of the rioters. Please discuss for us the numbers of Christian/Jewish/Buddhist rioters. Unless you’re going to continue to play the victim card and offer apologetics for rioting, you really do need to understand the resentment felt by people who have to work for a living and won’t offer excuses for those who explicitly reject any contact with their host country and seek to exploit the advantages of Western nations while displaying utter contempt for it.

Insurance will cover? Perhaps. But understand that when you so flippantly disregard the rights of others because you’re not given the special, preferential treatment you think you deserve, that’s not anyone’s fault but your own.

Why is that? That when these 'rioters' are from a certain religious background, we all pinpoint it as the main ingredient for these outbreaks. Religion had nothing to do with this. In fact The union of Islamic organisations in France issued a fatwa:

"It is strictly forbidden for any Muslim... to take part in any action that strikes blindly at private or public property or that could threaten the lives of others"

They are protesting to gain their rights like any other french civilian.
I am not making excuses, i'm trying to explain that this didn't just fall out of the sky and that they aren't the problem; action calls for reaction.
They are the product of discrimination and estrangement by the government.
Advantages? really? like what? unemployment? discrimination? racism? hatred? poverty?
These banlieues look like something you would see in a third world country.
Ghettos are created by isolation from the society.

And yes, they should get a special treatment for being left aside in the first place. The government should get them of the streets by creating employment, creating housing in the main white cities etc. Intergrate them by making them a part of society.

In Holland the dutch government took immediate action and created new housing in different 'white' areas so that the immigrants will be a part of society vis à vis creating their own ghettos.
How could this have escalated so much? You tell me.
Are you really denying any part of the government in this mess?
What's a polician, now the president calling humanbeings scum? Is that the person you want representing you and your country?
Again; You tell me?

At last France would stop being so pro-arabic, and so hostile to Israel.

And who said that multiculturalism is good? :?

What good multiculturalism brought to Europe? :?

I think that multiculturalism died in Europe when Theo van Gogh , dutch director, was killed by algerian fanatic. And after that in Holland there was almost a civil war between muslims immigrants and natives. Mosques and churches were burned by both sides.

After immigrant riots in France, and suicide attacks in Madrit and London, european politics( at least some, but still too few) finally understood that multiculturalism promoted by Leftist organizations and parties was a big failure.

Multiculturalism brought only tensions in Europe.

Van Gogh was murdered by a moroccan brother.
Was there? A civil war? Nothing of that kind.
Churches haven't been burned, one Islamic school got burned by some racists.

[Amadeus85]

Van Gogh was murdered by a moroccan brother.
Was there? A civil war? Nothing of that kind.
Churches haven't been burned, one Islamic school got burned by some racists.

Yes, you are right the one who killed van Gogh was Moroccan.

[Hashim_507]

At last France would stop being so pro-arabic, and so hostile to Israel.

And who said that multiculturalism is good? :?

What good multiculturalism brought to Europe? :?

I think that multiculturalism died in Europe when Theo van Gogh , dutch director, was killed by algerian fanatic. And after that in Holland there was almost a civil war between muslims immigrants and natives. Mosques and churches were burned by both sides.

After immigrant riots in France, and suicide attacks in Madrit and London, european politics( at least some, but still too few) finally understood that multiculturalism promoted by Leftist organizations and parties was a big failure.

Multiculturalism brought only tensions in Europe.

Your not very open minded person, do have fear for diverse world?
Dont take my words as a insult.

[August]

Your not very open minded person, do have fear for diverse world?
Dont take my words as a insult.

I can't speak for him, but here is how I view multiculturalism. Diversity is a good thing, I'm not arguing against that. However, we run into huge problems when a large part of the country's population does not view themselves as belonging in society. When people move to a new country, such as France, they can keep many of their native customs and their religious beliefs. But they do have a responsibility to accept and adopt the core principles of their new nation. To use my country as an example, I don't care who you are or where you come from, there is a place for you in the USA as long as you respect the Constitution and our democratic traditions.

[Hashim_507]

I can't speak for him, but here is how I view multiculturalism. Diversity is a good thing, I'm not arguing against that. However, we run into huge problems when a large part of the country's population does not view themselves as belonging in society. When people move to a new country, such as France, they can keep many of their native customs and their religious beliefs. But they do have a responsibility to accept and adopt the core principles of their new nation. To use my country as an example, I don't care who you are or where you come from, there is a place for you in the USA as long as you respect the Constitution and our democratic traditions.

Yes all immigrants must respect the constitution and its tredition. But the host country must respect the immigrants rights that includes there human rights.

[Goku]

You maybe don't notice that Left's attitudes are completely against islamic teachings-

Left promotes:
- homosexual marriages and adoption "laws" for gays and lesbians
-radical feminism
-euthanasia
-abortion
-radical separation of state and religion
-secularism and atheism.

I sometimes really wonder why most muslims In Europe vote for Left :?

Thats true but on average the left is more tolerant of others than the right, not all of the right wing is intolerant of course, but some of the far right are very racist and anti Muslim. E.g in UK one of the most racist and anti Muslim party is a far right wing party called BNP, but the majority of Brits oppose them. In contrast, some of the biggest supporters of Islam and Muslims are on the left and far left, e.g Ken Livingston (Leftist Mayor of London), George Galloway (far left leader of the Respect party in UK).

That might be a few reasons why Muslims tend to vote for the left, if they do, i didnt even know there was a statistic showing this.

[Philosopher]

This guy is good news for Muslims as well. He wants to use France's money to fund mosques.

[Goku]

This guy is good news for Muslims as well. He wants to use France's money to fund mosques.

Really? I thought there was propoganda that he's anti-Islam, or something.

[Pygoscelis]

Who knows , maybe you are right. I know that Sarkozy wants to fund building new mosques in France from state money.

And are you aware of the intent behind that move? He wishes to do it with state money so that the state has control over them.

[north_malaysian]

Really? I thought there was propoganda that he's anti-Islam, or something.

I think he's pro-religious..... which should be good news for Muslims then. But we should just wait and see..

[north_malaysian]

[PIE]L'Expresse has recently launch a fierce attack on Nicolas Sarkozy for his objecting to the introduction of legislation banning hijab in schools. Sarkozy, the magazine holds, does not stop saying in public that hijab is a right of option that should be respected. The magazine adds that he also worked hard this year to promote the French Council for the Islamic Faith, the majority of whose seats were seized by fundementalists in its 2003 elections.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...re%2FACELayout

[/PIE]

[north_malaysian]

Reactions of Sarkozy winning the election:

* "We hope that the French President will have the vision for a more influential role through being more balanced in his policies".. - Nawaf Moussawi, Head of International Relations, Hezbollah

* "President Bashar Assad of Syria in a telegram expressed hopes that relations between Syria and France, which had been marred for the past two years, "would develop for the two countries' interests,"..

* Saad Hariri sent a message of congratulations to Sarkozy, expressing confidence that historic ties will continue to develop.

http://yalibnan.com/site/archives/20..._lebanon_l.php

[Goku]

Well thats good to hear, if all this is true, it shows that there are people even on the right wing who are as tolerant of Islam and Muslims as the left wing. Hopefully France will improve its relations with Muslim countries.

[Amadeus85]

Your not very open minded person, do have fear for diverse world?
Dont take my words as a insult.

No offense bro :D

You know, i am just quite conservative man, with patriotic attitude for my own country and also for Europe.
And actually in Europe we dont have multicultural society. We have rather duo-cultural society, westerners and muslims. It brings much tensions because nowadays this immigration turned into colonisation. Some european cities may soon have muslim majority of citizens. For example Marseille in France. Birmingham in England.Brussells in Belgium etc .
For me , as a conservative and patriotic european it is not a reason to hapinnes :) . I just want Europe to stay european.
I am sure that you would feel the same about your own country.

[Amadeus85]

And are you aware of the intent behind that move? He wishes to do it with state money so that the state has control over them.

Yes of course, Sarko doesn't want to let extremists there.

[Amadeus85]

Thats true but on average the left is more tolerant of others than the right, not all of the right wing is intolerant of course, but some of the far right are very racist and anti Muslim. E.g in UK one of the most racist and anti Muslim party is a far right wing party called BNP, but the majority of Brits oppose them. In contrast, some of the biggest supporters of Islam and Muslims are on the left and far left, e.g Ken Livingston (Leftist Mayor of London), George Galloway (far left leader of the Respect party in UK).

That might be a few reasons why Muslims tend to vote for the left, if they do, i didnt even know there was a statistic showing this.

You know Goku, for many true europeans Ken Livingstone and George Galloway are seen just as Ayaan Hirsi Ali or Salman Rushdie are seen by many muslims.
Lets say that word useful idiot would be the least offensive.

[Fishman]

You know Goku, for many true europeans Ken Livingstone and George Galloway are seen just as Ayaan Hirsi Ali or Salman Rushdie are seen by many muslims.
Lets say that word useful idiot would be the least offensive.

:sl:
So, to be a true European you have to be right-wing? I heard that you can be European by simply being born in the continent. I'm European (British), and I am a proud left-wing Islamist. I was born here, along with my parents, grandparents, great grandparents and so on.

BTW, whilst communists and the harder socialists may promote things like state secularism and atheism, they are not a necessary part of the left. I promote racial equality, rights for workers and the poor, and multiculturalism. Multiculturalism has worked fine in my country ever since it was first invented, and it has only recently began to be challenged, mostly by the anti-niqaab crew.
:w:

[Fishman]

And actually in Europe we dont have multicultural society. We have rather duo-cultural society, westerners and muslims. It brings much tensions because nowadays this immigration turned into colonisation. Some european cities may soon have muslim majority of citizens. For example Marseille in France. Birmingham in England.Brussells in Belgium etc .

:sl:
:rollseyes
Birmingham is not nearly Muslim-majority. It does not even have a non-white majority. And you cannot compare immigration to colonialism, unless, God forbid, you think of different races as being nations that can conquer eachother. Colonialism is when one country decides to take over another for economic reasons, typically to produce raw materials at low prices. Immigration is when people move into another country, for reasons such as escaping persecution, poverty, a bad climate etc. At the moment, because there are many bad conditions in the third world, immigrants come here because they are fed up with these bad conditions, and want a good life in the west. They don't want to force everybody into their culture, they just want to have a good life.
:w:

[north_malaysian]

Islamisation among the Europeans is not a new thing, for hundreds of years there are Muslim Europeans especially in the Balkan, Russia and Mediterranean area.

[Muezzin]

No offense bro :D

You know, i am just quite conservative man, with patriotic attitude for my own country and also for Europe.
And actually in Europe we dont have multicultural society. We have rather duo-cultural society, westerners and muslims. It brings much tensions because nowadays this immigration turned into colonisation. Some european cities may soon have muslim majority of citizens. For example Marseille in France. Birmingham in England.Brussells in Belgium etc .
For me , as a conservative and patriotic european it is not a reason to hapinnes :) . I just want Europe to stay european.
I am sure that you would feel the same about your own country.

News flash! I'm a Muslim European because, hey, I was born here. I also speak the language (well, English, but I'm British and we're arrogant like that), but because I disagree with you, I must be a threat. It's not enough that I live in peace, want to help people and am generally not a bother to anyone (except to annoying people who think peaceful coexistence is an imposssiblity, thus initiating a self-fulfiling prophecy and rendering it impossible)

If that's not good enough, I guess you'll have to drag my 'impure' butt to the gas chambers, and how very European that would be. Not.

Anyway. If this Sarkozy is not 'right wing' in the stereotypical sense of a narrow-minded bigot (but that describes every politician really), maybe some of these tensions will ease. Personally, I think we could just be nice to each other, but hey, what do I know? Let's just get rid of Muslims. They're not true Europeans. Their culture is different. And Jews. Europe is Christian. And black people too. Europeans are white, and black people, Asians and all them other mudpeople have their own continents. And fat people while you're at it. Europeans are beautiful. Hell, let's just genetically engineer a race of perfect Europeans. Maybe something amazing will happen, like the UK winning Eurovision.

[Amadeus85]

News flash! I'm a Muslim European because, hey, I was born here. I also speak the language (well, English, but I'm British and we're arrogant like that), but because I disagree with you, I must be a threat. It's not enough that I live in peace, want to help people and am generally not a bother to anyone (except to annoying people who think peaceful coexistence is an imposssiblity, thus initiating a self-fulfiling prophecy and rendering it impossible)

If that's not good enough, I guess you'll have to drag my 'impure' butt to the gas chambers, and how very European that would be. Not.

Anyway. If this Sarkozy is not 'right wing' in the stereotypical sense of a narrow-minded bigot (but that describes every politician really), maybe some of these tensions will ease. Personally, I think we could just be nice to each other, but hey, what do I know? Let's just get rid of Muslims. They're not true Europeans. Their culture is different. And Jews. Europe is Christian. And black people too. Europeans are white, and black people, Asians and all them other mudpeople have their own continents. And fat people while you're at it. Europeans are beautiful. Hell, let's just genetically engineer a race of perfect Europeans. Maybe something amazing will happen, like the UK winning Eurovision.

Now you are making a racist and a fascist from me, which i am definitely not. You tell me about gas chambers and fascists, but you probably dont know that German nazis killed 5 millions of citizens of my country.
And my own family also suffered from them. So i am as far from racism and fascism as one can be. But it is ok, you just could havent known about this.

I have never said anything about getting rid of immigrants, also members of my own family are immigrants in USA and England. I have never said anything about deporting asians, blacks, nor jews. And i have never said that in Europe can live only native europeans.

I will try to express my thoughts more clearly, so you won't conect me with gas chambers and fascism anymore.
Genarally immigration is ok. Europe in the second half of 20th century needed many workers from asian and african countries. So european countries embraced thousands and millions of immigrants (mainly muslims).
But now i have to say that Europe is full. For example in France immigrants make up about 10 % of citizens.It is very large number.When immigrants make up more than 10 % of people, they just dont integrate.They rather create own closed communities.
I don't know from what country your family came to Europe, but lets say that from Egypt.So now imagine that 15 millions of africans from Kenya,Congo,Cameroon, and Ethiopia came to your country. Majority of them dont know arabic language.They are from totally different culture.Majority of them are christians.They dont want to integrate with egyptian , arabic society, but they create their own communities, suburbs, where arabic people dont feel safe, where violence and crime is rather higher than in the rest of country. Those immigrants want to bring their families to their new homeland. They often dont work , but just wait for social help from the state.
And imagine also riots in your country , similar to those that hapenned in France in suburbs. Imagine that those immigrants are stronger with every year group of voters and using political correctness they want to bring their own cultural basics and traditions in the districts where they live in majority. Imagine that symbols of your religion are removed not to make angry the immigrants.
Imagine that many of them hates your state and they influence to change international politicy of your country to this that they prefer.
Then imagine suicide attacks like those in Madrit and London. Imagine that one of them trying to shout the freedom of speech killed a famous director in your country.
And imagine that everyone who dares to say that this immigration should be decreased, is called a rascist and fascist.
For you its just doesnt matter if major language in France would become arabic, and in Germany a turkish language.For you it doesnt matter which religion is taught in european schools and what symbols can be seen in public places.
But for me it does matter. I remember that power and strength of this continent was build by europeans and based on our values and traditions.
It is not popular to say this but i think that western, judeo- christian civilization is superior to any other that appeared on Earth. We actually invented the modern world and everything that you are using now is invented by westerners. Computer, phone cell, plane, car, mp3 player,modern medicine and cures, electricity and tv etc etc.
Thats why i feel that i have to stand up for this cvilization and this tradition. I am european and i want my civilization to survive. And this out of control immigration
and political correctness along with falsely understood human rights are threats for existence of my civilization. It is just clear demography- without native europeans in Europe you won't have european tradition and culture. Instead of this, we would have immigrants culture and civilization.


Regards.

[aamirsaab]

:sl:

It is just clear demography- without native europeans in Europe you won't have european tradition and culture.

Culture changes throughout time - it is not the fault of immigrants. Tradition has similar treatment. In anycase, you're making it sound like the native europeans are being pushed out of their country which is so not true.

Instead of this, we would have immigrants culture and civilization.

Like the US.


Personally, as long as Sarkozy does his job, I've no beef/quarrel with him.

[Muezzin]

Now you are making a racist and a fascist from me, which i am definitely not. You tell me about gas chambers and fascists, but you probably dont know that German nazis killed 5 millions of citizens of my country.
And my own family also suffered from them. So i am as far from racism and fascism as one can be. But it is ok, you just could havent known about this.

I'm very sorry to hear that.

I have never said anything about getting rid of immigrants, also members of my own family are immigrants in USA and England. I have never said anything about deporting asians, blacks, nor jews. And i have never said that in Europe can live only native europeans.

Okay.

I will try to express my thoughts more clearly, so you won't conect me with gas chambers and fascism anymore.
Genarally immigration is ok. Europe in the second half of 20th century needed many workers from asian and african countries. So european countries embraced thousands and millions of immigrants (mainly muslims).
But now i have to say that Europe is full. For example in France immigrants make up about 10 % of citizens.It is very large number.When immigrants make up more than 10 % of people, they just dont integrate.They rather create own closed communities.

This is quite normal human behaviour. Birds of a feather flock together as they say. Different communities can and do coexist peacefully though.

I don't know from what country your family came to Europe, but lets say that from Egypt.So now imagine that 15 millions of africans from Kenya,Congo,Cameroon, and Ethiopia came to your country. Majority of them dont know arabic language.They are from totally different culture.Majority of them are christians.They dont want to integrate with egyptian , arabic society, but they create their own communities, suburbs, where arabic people dont feel safe, where violence and crime is rather higher than in the rest of country. Those immigrants want to bring their families to their new homeland. They often dont work , but just wait for social help from the state.

Yeah, those particular ones are sponges, but not every immigrant or every Christian.

And imagine also riots in your country , similar to those that hapenned in France in suburbs. Imagine that those immigrants are stronger with every year group of voters and using political correctness they want to bring their own cultural basics and traditions in the districts where they live in majority.

Why not? That would be democratic would it not? People of different constituency should be able to vote and obtain what they want and need for their community through legitimate political channels.

Imagine that symbols of your religion are removed not to make angry the immigrants.

Religious symbols in France were not banned so as to avoid offending immigrants.

Imagine that many of them hates your state and they influence to change international politicy of your country to this that they prefer.

If they hate the state rather than the way it is being run, they should move. If they dislike the way it is being run, then trying to influence international policy to what they prefer through legitimate political channels is their democratic right.

Then imagine suicide attacks like those in Madrit and London.

Again, that's just a minority among a minority.

Imagine that one of them trying to shout the freedom of speech killed a famous director in your country.

I'm not quite sure which event you're referring to here. If it's Theo Van Gogh, then his murderer deserved to be punished. On the other hand, Mr Van Gogh perhaps was unwise in making such provactive films in today's political climate. Not justifying it, like I said, his murderer deserved to be punished for taking another's life.

And imagine that everyone who dares to say that this immigration should be decreased, is called a rascist and fascist.

Well, that depends on if you're distinguishing between the troublemaking immigrants and the law-abiding ones. You don't seem to be making any distinction, rather you seem to be lumping them all together.

I mean, heck, we get new members on this forum all the time, and some of them are just here to cause trouble, but we don't stop every potential new member from signing up because of that.

For you its just doesnt matter if major language in France would become arabic, and in Germany a turkish language.

No problems, as long as French and German don’t disappear in the process.

For you it doesnt matter which religion is taught in european schools and what symbols can be seen in public places.

Kids should learn about all religions, and all religious symbols should be allowed in public places. Hiding matters about religion from children is counterproductive.

But for me it does matter. I remember that power and strength of this continent was build by europeans and based on our values and traditions.

And nobody is destroying your values and traditions. Sure, they might disagree, but in a democracy, they’re allowed to.

It is not popular to say this but i think that western, judeo- christian civilization is superior to any other that appeared on Earth.

Well, you’re biased, but that’s your prerogative. I must say that such superiority complexes are dangerous. Being proud of who you are and where you're from? Great. Thinking you're better than others because of it? Um, that tends to cause violence. You're putting yourself on a superior pedestal and painting everyone who does not conform to your ideal as savages. That is actually a form of racism if you think about it.

We actually invented the modern world and everything that you are using now is invented by westerners. Computer, phone cell, plane, car, mp3 player,modern medicine and cures, electricity and tv etc etc.

You're kind of missing out the contributions that, say, the Japanese (who are in the East and have very different traditions to the West) have made to electronics, robotics etc. Downside of superiority complexes.

Thats why i feel that i have to stand up for this cvilization and this tradition. I am european and i want my civilization to survive. And this out of control immigration
and political correctness along with falsely understood human rights are threats for existence of my civilization. It is just clear demography- without native europeans in Europe you won't have european tradition and culture. Instead of this, we would have immigrants culture and civilization.


Regards.

You’re assuming that immigrants destroy their host culture. I am not advocating such behaviour, and I honestly think no such destruction of native culture is taking place. I’m just advocating acceptance of other cultures, and peaceful coexistence. You don’t have to stop practicing your culture just because someone else disagrees. Once you start assuming you do, you get problems.

[Keltoi]

What is going on in France isn't completely the fault of unemployed immigrants, although they are the ones burning cars every night. The real problem is the failing economic and social system in France. If Sarkozy can do something about the stagnant economy and make some real reforms to social programs, this will do wonders to improve the nation and the immigrant issue.

[Amadeus85]

I still think that wrongly understood political correctness used both by immigrants and leftist politics is bad for european culture.
Nowadays from most european schools in West crosses are being removed not to make angry muslim kids. The same is hapenning in hospitals.
Adel Smith, the head of islamic organization in Italy threw away a cross through the window from a room in hospital where his daughter was laying.
Its because of immigrants from other cultures we christians in Europe can't show in public places that Christmas is connected with Christ's born, because it will be seen intolerant for immigrants.
So now Christmas in West are often called a Winter Holidays. Its a paranoia.

[Muezzin]

I still think that wrongly understood political correctness used both by immigrants and leftist politics is bad for european culture.
Nowadays from most european schools in West crosses are being removed not to make angry muslim kids. The same is hapenning in hospitals.

Please post proof.

Adel Smith, the head of islamic organization in Italy threw away a cross through the window from a room in hospital where his daughter was laying.

Then he's being stupid. Muslims are supposed to respect other religions. It's not an excuse to kick out the foreigners.

Its because of immigrants from other cultures we christians in Europe can't show in public places that Christmas is connected with Christ's born, because it will be seen intolerant for immigrants.
So now Christmas in West are often called a Winter Holidays. Its a paranoia.

Please post proof. It seems that you are the paranoid one. I mean if what you were saying was true, then we wouldn't even call it Christmas, we'd call it, officially, 'Xmas', and it wouldn't be a national holiday etc... I think you're grasping at straws. The immigrants (which in the context you're using I suspect is synonymous with 'Muslims') don't even complain about Christmas in the first place, just a bunch of beauracrats who think they're doing the right thing but are actually making things worse.

[Amadeus85]

. The immigrants (which in the context you're using I suspect is synonymous with 'Muslims') don't even complain about Christmas in the first place, just a bunch of beauracrats who think they're doing the right thing but are actually making things worse.

Yes here i agree with you, i know that for most muslims,( as they are the majority of immigrants) Christmas is no problem, but for the radical secularists and leftists in West it is just a good excuse to ban symbols connected with Christ.
You are right that for this banning christian symbols in West stand behind our own politics. They just hate their own tradition and culture.

[Muezzin]

Yes here i agree with you, i know that for most muslims,( as they are the majority of immigrants) Christmas is no problem, but for the radical secularists and leftists in West it is just a good excuse to ban symbols connected with Christ.
You are right that for this banning christian symbols in West stand behind our own politics. They just hate their own tradition and culture.

Yeah. I can understand loathing those who hate their own culture. I apologise if I've been overly harsh to you. I misunderstood where you were coming from. Now I know that it's not immigrants you dislike so much as the destruction of European culture. I don't want European culture to disappear either. I don't want anyone's culture and heritage to be destroyed. But I truly believe it is possible for different cultures to coexist without one stamping out the other, mostly because that is the way it is where I live.

Where does Mr Sarkozy stand on issues such as this?

[Zman]

:sl: /Peace To All

Sarko is the French version of America's Zionist-Neocon.

He was bad, specifically for Muslims, before becoming president. Now, his xenophobic views will be augmented with the power of the presidency.

I read last night that he Just posted an Israeli to be in charge of immigration & national identity.

France is about to embark on an new era. And it won't be the "enlightened" France of old.

I believe a dark cloud will descend on this "new France."

[Amadeus85]

Yeah. I can understand loathing those who hate their own culture. I apologise if I've been overly harsh to you. I misunderstood where you were coming from. Now I know that it's not immigrants you dislike so much as the destruction of European culture. I don't want European culture to disappear either. I don't want anyone's culture and heritage to be destroyed. But I truly believe it is possible for different cultures to coexist without one stamping out the other, mostly because that is the way it is where I live.

Where does Mr Sarkozy stand on issues such as this?

Christian- muslim front against abortion, same sex marriages, euthanasia, drugs legalizing, radical secularization,pornography, would be very good idea, as our both faiths agree with on those issues. In Europe christians and muslims should co -opperate just like do christians and conservative jews in USA.

[Amadeus85]

Yeah. I can understand loathing those who hate their own culture. I apologise if I've been overly harsh to you. I misunderstood where you were coming from. Now I know that it's not immigrants you dislike so much as the destruction of European culture. I don't want European culture to disappear either. I don't want anyone's culture and heritage to be destroyed. But I truly believe it is possible for different cultures to coexist without one stamping out the other, mostly because that is the way it is where I live.

Where does Mr Sarkozy stand on issues such as this?

In my opinion all muslims who really feel that Europe is their homeland should rather prefer rather politics like Sarkozy than leftist radicals like Zapatero.

But dont forget all people here that all politics LIE :rollseyes

[Zman]

:sl:/Peace To All

The Great Illusion: Sarkozy and The "Decline" Of France

By JEAN BRICMONT
Weekend Edition
May 12 / 13, 2007
CounterPunch

Two thirds of French people think their country is in decline. That is without doubt the principal reason why Nicolas Sarkozy was elected President of the Republic. Moreover, the main way the media contributed to his triumph was by years of constant propaganda on the theme of "the decline of France", along with the related theme of "security".

There are various ways to counter that notion. One is to show that the selection and interpretation of the statistics used to "prove" France's decline are extremely biased. (For example, on the subject of youth unemployment, see Mark Weisbrot, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, in Washington, D.C., "An Economist View of the French Election".)

Another approach is to ask what solutions are proposed by the heralds of "decline".

The declinists cleverly mix up two problems. One is the decline of France in relation to the emerging countries, especially in Asia. The other is the supposed decline of France in relation to other industrialized countries, especially the United States and Britain. The first form of "decline" is merely the reflection of a very positive development: the fact that large parts of the Third World are catching up with the industrialized West.

But, since it would make no sense to propose imitating China and India, the declinists propose imitating the Anglo-American model, which is supposed to avoid decline by a series of measures: flexible work conditions, destruction of hard-won social protections and public services, tough security enforcement and moral rearmament.

But let's take a closer look at their favorite model, the United States. The Americans have spent hundreds of billions of dollars to invade Iraq. Thousands of their soldiers have been killed, tens of thousands wounded, and they are completely stuck.

They can't win, because they have succeeded in turning the immense majority of Iraqis against them, and they can't leave, because it would mean the end of their empire. And so they are going to be bogged down in Iraq for many years, losing still more men, money and prestige, while causing unspeakable and useless suffering to the Iraqi people. And why are they in Iraq?

Among other things, thanks to manipulation of public opinion concerning weapons of mass destruction. The Americans have intelligence services that spy on the whole world, a free press with immense resources, universities packed with specialists on every conflict and problem on earth.

And yet, they have not been able to understand the most elementary realities, that even a child traveling to the Middle East could understand, that is, that they are hated primarily because of their support to Israel, and that their intervention in the region is bound to provoke massive rejection.

If that blend of incapacity, ignorance and arrogance is not symptomatic of a society in decline, then it's hard to imagine what "decline" is all about. Slight gaps in GNP and unemployment rates are minor technicalities in comparison. France, in contrast, which in 2003 still had an elite described as "aging, outdated, behind the times"--but still able to think--did not go along with that madness.

But that's not all. The rest of the world, and especially France, is constantly called upon to do as the United States does. Now, let us imagine that by the wave of a magic wand, the rest of the world really starts to imitate the United States. Where will they get all the petroleum and other raw materials that the United States imports in vast quantities, on which its society is totally dependent to preserve its way of life?

Where will they get the immigrant workers, often undocumented, that is, without rights, or the floods of cheap imported goods which are not even really paid for, since they are financed by ever-expanding trade deficits, but which enable workers who have lost their industrial jobs to continue to consume the things they need?

And finally, where will they get the brains that the United States drains from the rest of the world; because it is cheaper to offer high salaries to lure people who are already well educated than to finance a genuine system of mass education?

The fact is that the American model is impossible to imitate, because its very survival depends on the existence of a world outside the United States which is quite different. It is true that the situation of Europe is fairly similar, but it is precisely our degree of proximity to the "American model" that is the proper gauge of our decline.

Moreover, without the military power of the United States, neither France nor Europe can even try to prolong a situation that is untenable in the long term.

It is rather amusing to see Sarkozy, who is supposed to embody "the France that works hard and wins", score his greatest electoral hit among retired voters.

His program, like that of George W. Bush, is not turned toward the future in a realistic way, but on the contrary attracts people who long for the good old days when Europe and the United States were far more powerful than they are today. The fantasy of power is another sign of decadence.

Sarkozy's election is an undeniable victory for the United States and for Israel. But it runs the very real risk of being a pyrrhic victory, because the decisive battles of our times are taking place outside of Europe: in Asia, in Latin America and in the Middle East. And there, the United States is losing on all fronts.

We are living in a world that we no longer dominate and to which we shall have to adapt, and not by nostalgia for the past.

Jean Bricmont teaches physics in Belgium. His new book, Humanitarian Imperialism, will be published by Monthly Review Press.

He can be reached at bricmont@fyma.ucl.ac.be.

Translated by Diana Johnstone.

Source:
http://counterpunch.org/bricmont05122007.html

[north_malaysian]

Yes here i agree with you, i know that for most muslims,( as they are the majority of immigrants) Christmas is no problem.

Yes... Christmas is not a problem.... it's a public holiday here... regardless that the Malaysian Christians are less than 10% of the population.:D