Status of Old Testament in Islam

[Talha777]

Bismillahi Arrahmani Arraheem

My dear brothers, after watching a video clip of the famous Dr. Israr Ahmad on youtube, and I shall provide the link to it as well, as well as the relevant quote, I would like to open this thread for discussing the status of the Old Testament, specifically the Torah, vis-a-vis Islam. Are those laws from the Torah which have not been specifically abrogated in the Holy Quran and Sunnat still applicable today? Dr. Israr Ahmad says yes while explaining that the punishment for apostasy is not found in Holy Quran, it is in the Torah.

(Warning, this video is an example of Qadiani propoganda)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NgRsVyozlo

Regarding apostasy, Dr. Israr Ahmad says: "To me, this is a continuation of the Law (Shariah) of Moses. Any particular teaching of Torah which has not been specifically altered (by the Holy Quran) automatically becomes a part of the Islamic law. Stoning to death for the crime of adultery is one such example. Similarly, there is no verse in Holy Quran requiring capital punishment for apostates, but it is in hadith. And the source of both of these is the Torah...And for this, one has to consult the Torah."

Essentially, I have no problem with what Dr. Israr Ahmad is saying, because there is no doubt that the Torah is the revelation from Allah to Prophet Moses (alaihi salaam). My only confusion is that has the Holy Quran abrogated the entire Torah or only specific parts of it as Dr. Israr Ahmad is saying. And also, wasn't the Torah only for Bani Israeel?

Jazak Allah khair

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


Allaah knows best akhi, i think the torah was specifically for bani isra'eel and the people Moses was sent to.


Does the doctor quote any evidence [from Qur'an or Sunnah] to prove that claim?


Because we as muslims know that we neither reject or accept the ideas in the torah unless it is in accordance with Qur'an or Sunnah. For instance - we know that Prophet Moses came to call people to the worship of Allaah Alone - we know this because it agrees with Qur'an.

We know that Prophet Sulaiman for example had many wives, since that is mentioned within authentic Sunnah.


There are some aspects which are neither proven nor rejected, and an example of that is the names of the one son of adam who killed the other. [i.e. Habil and Qabil as mentioned in the older scriptures.] There is no mention of that within our Qur'an and Authentic Sunnah, therefore we can use that as a basis, but it isn't rejected, nor is it totally accepted. It's just a basic idea since there is nothing to reject that either from our sources.


If we don't totally accept something which isn't in accordance with Qur'an and Sunnah, how are we to say that their laws apply to us without a doubt? When we don't even 100% accept that the names of the two sons is Habil and Qabil?


I think the Qur'an and Sunnah is sufficient for us. And Allaah knows best.

[Umar001]

Bismillahi Arrahmani Arraheem

My dear brothers, after watching a video clip of the famous Dr. Israr Ahmad on youtube, and I shall provide the link to it as well, as well as the relevant quote, I would like to open this thread for discussing the status of the Old Testament, specifically the Torah, vis-a-vis Islam. Are those laws from the Torah which have not been specifically abrogated in the Holy Quran and Sunnat still applicable today? Dr. Israr Ahmad says yes while explaining that the punishment for apostasy is not found in Holy Quran, it is in the Torah.

(Warning, this video is an example of Qadiani propoganda)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NgRsVyozlo

Regarding apostasy, Dr. Israr Ahmad says: "To me, this is a continuation of the Law (Shariah) of Moses. Any particular teaching of Torah which has not been specifically altered (by the Holy Quran) automatically becomes a part of the Islamic law. Stoning to death for the crime of adultery is one such example. Similarly, there is no verse in Holy Quran requiring capital punishment for apostates, but it is in hadith. And the source of both of these is the Torah...And for this, one has to consult the Torah."

Essentially, I have no problem with what Dr. Israr Ahmad is saying, because there is no doubt that the Torah is the revelation from Allah to Prophet Moses (alaihi salaam). My only confusion is that has the Holy Quran abrogated the entire Torah or only specific parts of it as Dr. Israr Ahmad is saying. And also, wasn't the Torah only for Bani Israeel?

Jazak Allah khair

I have one question for you brother, does this Dr accept Ahadith?

Furthermore, since he seems to think that a similarity means copying then this guy would also believe that the Quran came from the Torah, I mean, both order Worship of One God dont they?

[Talha777]

Jazak Allah for good replies.

Yes, Dr. Israr Ahmad does indeed believe in ahadeeth. I dont know, however, where he got the idea that Torah is a source of Islamic law.

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[Malaikah]

:sl:

I think that is impossible since the Quran is what we use to check the validity of statements in the OT in the first place.

If is confirms Islam, then we take it as truth.
If it denies Islam, then we take it as fabrication.
If it neither confirms nor denies Islam, then we stay silent about it.

I believe what he is trying to do is a contradiction of the part in bold, since he may very well be deriving a law from something that was fabricated.

Allah knows best.

[Umar001]

Jazak Allah for good replies.

Yes, Dr. Israr Ahmad does indeed believe in ahadeeth. I dont know, however, where he got the idea that Torah is a source of Islamic law.

Does he? Wow.

[Talha777]

Does he? Wow.

Why are you so surprised brother?

[Umar001]

Why are you so surprised brother?

Is that the brother who says 'Its not in the Quran, but its in the hadith' ?

It just seems like he doesnt believe in the Hadith. My bad, Alhamdulillah that he does.

[Talha777]

Yes, if you see the video he's the one with the black jinnah hat and white beard. I recommend you search for other Dr. Israr Ahmad videos on youtube, especially his dars-e-Quran clips.

[Umar001]

Is he Ahmediyya.

You know that video is made or whoever uploaded it, they are either unaware in that case they should not have put it up or lying in that case they shouldnt be trusted, let me quote what is written on the side:

As far as hadith is concerned; hadith were compiled over a period of 200 years after the death of the Holy Prophet SAW.

And furthermore he gives meanings without giving reasons.

[Talha777]

Is he Qadiani?

By all means, NO! Alhamdolillah, he is a Muslim. He is one of the most virulent and passionate enemies of Qadianism. Qadianis hate him, and they make youtube videos against him.

[Umar001]

He says jins dont have spirits?

I dont know, seems he has some relovutionary ideas.

Allah knows best