PDA

View Full Version : why sacrifise of Jesus (p) is unique & others sacrifises went unnoticed ???



Muslim Woman
05-11-2007, 12:45 AM





I seek refuge in Allah (The One God) from the Satan (devil) the cursed, the rejected

Assalamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh (May the peace, mercy and blessings of Allah be upon you)

&&


Many Christians believe death (!) of Jesus (p) is unique & no one ever sacrificed life for the sake of the world , God , religion etc , etc.


In the history, so many people sacrificed lives & wealth for Islam……..not even Muslims bother to know about them…..what a pity.


I don't want to hurt Christians' feelings....just want to tell them & us that many people sacrifised so much for the sake of God.......we must at least know about them.

short intro :



Sumayyah, herself, was the seventh person to embrace Islam, thus, one of the very first believers.


The Al-Mughirah clan used to torture her in the attempt to force her leave Islam and return to idolworship.


When Abu Jahl heard of her Islam and her husband Yasir and her son Ammar, he whipped them all and beat them. She was aged, and weak too.


People used to pass by and witness her being tortured by the side of her son and husband in the hot sands of Makkah.



Only the passing shadow of the Prophet (salAllahu alayhi wasalam) could relieve such heat and torture. Muhammad heard the dying groans of Yasir and called to Heaven.



He turned to the suffering Muslims to console and comfort them,

"I have brought good tidings for you, Be patient, O family of Yasir. God has promised you a special place in Paradise".


…………Subhan'Allah, if we took time to familiarise ourselves with the details of their experiences, then the difficulties we face in our societies will seem insignificant by comparison.




As Abu Jahl beat and tortured Sumayyah one day, she refused to recant her Deen, something that enraged Abu Jahl. The patriarch came later to inspect the results of his harsh sentence, and dear Sumayyah roused her last energy.




When he approached, she spat the bitter dust in her mouth at him.

He was so overcome by blind anger that he savagely took a spear as she lay on the hot burning sand, looking up to the sky, and he speared her through her midsection.


She was the first of her family and the entire Ummah to meet Allah as a Martyr. :statisfie


{ Masha Allah }



Read in details:

Sumayyah bint Khabat r.a was one of the first seven people to be enlightened by Islam and swear allegiance to the prophet saw.



She is among the foremost of the greatest women companion. Islam is unique in the sense that a persons value does not deoend on colour, race, language sex or nationality.



The norms are purity of heart and goodwill towards all. As Allah says “ Verily the most honourable of you with allah is that (believer) who is most pious”. (49:13)


Thus a person who wishes for his fellow human beings what he wishes for himself, who is kind to his fellow human beings for the sake of Allah S.W.T. , is the onewho fulfils the conditions of the test set by him

The seven people who first accepted islam were the following:




Abu Baker siddique, Ali bin Talib, Khadijah, zain bin Harith, Sumayyah bint Khabat, ‘Ammar bin Yasir, Bilal bin Abi Rabiah ( not set in order)



The Quraish of mekkah could not harm the prophet saw because of the power and position of his uncle abu Talib. Abu bakkar siddique was also a very powerful man because of the wealth of his tribe and his own personal influence. But the common muslim whether man or womanwas not spared any imaginable torture or torment.

Sumayyah bint khabat r.a , her husband and her son amaar were very often the targets for the cruelty of the qureish.




On one occasion as the prophet saw was passing by the market place he saw all three members of the family being put through the worst form of torture possibler. But he prophet saw was so helpless that there was no way he could rescue them. He could only console them and said, “be patient o family of Yasir! For your final destination is Paradise”

Uthman ra also narrated that the prophetsaw used to say these words to comfort the family. One ‘Ammer managed to escape and reach the prophet saw. He then asked when this persecution of the innocent muslims would end, and when they would be able to breathe peacefully.



He said things were going beyond all limits. The prophet saw then comforted him with a prayer to Allah to prtect and save the family of Yasir from the hell fire.




Abu jalh gave sumeyya bint khabat the worst kind of punishment, but she did not waver even for a second and remained as steady as a rock. He tried to pressure, cajole with and threaten her to recant, but she bluntly refused. He could not accept the fact that she could resist him so stubbornly and in out of rage he thrust his spear into her. This proved to be a fatal blow, and she died.




Thus aumeyya bint khabat had the distinction of being the first woman martyr of islam. This incdent took place seven years before the hijrah. Then her husband also fell victim to the tirture of the Quraish and he also died. After the martyrdom of both the parents, ‘Ammar took a special place in the affections of the prophet saw. He used to address him lovingle as ibn Sumeyyah. He proohet saw often spoke of the family of yasir in the highest terms of praise.

Abdullah bin Mas’ood r.a. says the prophet saw once said that when dissensions and disputes appeared among the people Ibn Sumeyyah would always stand by the right and just.



This family sacrificrd their lives, all in order to nourish the truth and also to earn rewards for the hereafter. It is about people like these that Allah says:

“ Verily, Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties for (the price) that theirs shall be the paradise. They fight in Allahs cause so they kill (others) and are killed. It is promise in truth which is binding on him in the taurat and the injeel and the quran.


And who is truer to his covenant than Allah? Then rejoice in the bargain that you have concluded. Hat is the supreme success” ( 9:111

http://www.***************/forum/arc...hp?t-1293.html
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
Grace Seeker
05-18-2007, 06:17 AM
Christians know that many people have laid down their lives on behalf of other people, on behalf of their country, on behalf of their religion. What Christians mean by saying that Jesus' death is unique in dying for the sake of the world is that his death actually brought about a change in the order of things in the world in which we live. It is put this way in our scriptures:
But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away [from God] have been brought near through the blood of Christ. (Ephesians 2:13)
Jesus did this for "whosoever believes in him", any one in the entire world.

As a Muslim you think of Muhammad (pbuh) receiving a message from God for the entire world. That was God's gift to all of mankind through Muhammad -- his message -- and it was accomplished by Muhammad remembering and reciting the word God reveal to him.


We Christians also think of God giving all of mankind a gift through Jesus, in our minds that gift is eternal life with God, and it was accomplished by Jesus dying on the cross. As Muslims you don't recognize that Jesus or anyone else has ever really died in such a way that it made a difference in even one person's eternal life with God. So if the Christian claim were true that this is what Jesus did do, not for just one person, but the entire world, then that would be very unique indeed.
Reply

Keltoi
05-18-2007, 02:02 PM
Not to mention that there were literally thousands upon thousands of Christians who died for their faith whose names were forgotten or never known. The point is not that Jesus's sacrifice was unique, but the reason for His sacrifice was unique.
Reply

Muslim Woman
05-19-2007, 12:34 PM



Salaam/peace

like Trinity , purpose of sacrifise of Jesus (p) is very complicated to understand ( at least for me ).



I was told in other thread that Jews don't need to believe in Jesus (p) to get a ticket to heaven. Also , many non-Catholics believe Catholic will go to hell.

Just think about Mother Teresa ---she sacrifised her whole life for Jesus (p) ; still many Christians believe she deserves hell. If any Muslims says this , other will scold him/ her that hey , u r mean minded.

Many Christians also believe that babies who die before baptism (! ) will go to hell........i really don't understadnd these things.

If so many Christians are going to hell forever, then why Jesus (p) died ?



Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
Keltoi
05-19-2007, 03:54 PM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman



Salaam/peace

like Trinity , purpose of sacrifise of Jesus (p) is very complicated to understand ( at least for me ).



I was told in other thread that Jews don't need to believe in Jesus (p) to get a ticket to heaven. Also , many non-Catholics believe Catholic will go to hell.

Just think about Mother Teresa ---she sacrifised her whole life for Jesus (p) ; still many Christians believe she deserves hell. If any Muslims says this , other will scold him/ her that hey , u r mean minded.

Many Christians also believe that babies who die before baptism (! ) will go to hell........i really don't understadnd these things.

If so many Christians are going to hell forever, then why Jesus (p) died ?


I'm not Catholic and I've never heard any Protestant minister state that Catholics are going to Hell. Not saying it doesn't happen, just haven't experienced it myself. Individuals say alot of things, but the fact remains that God will be the ultimate judge of salvation.
Reply

Muslim Woman
05-20-2007, 09:52 AM




Salaam/peace ,


Originally Posted by Keltoi
...... but the fact remains that God will be the ultimate judge of salvation.
then why Jesus (p) died ?

Reply

Keltoi
05-20-2007, 10:19 AM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman




Salaam/peace ,




then why Jesus (p) died ?
Christ died so that all mankind might have a way to achieve salvation and forgiveness for their sins. This doesn't mean by calling one's self a Christian they are automatically saved. However, those who live by Christ's Message and accept Christ as their Savior will indeed be forgiven and granted eternal salvation.
Reply

Muslim Woman
05-20-2007, 04:49 PM




Salaam/peace ,


Originally Posted by Keltoi
...... those who live by Christ's Message and accept Christ as their Savior will indeed be forgiven and granted eternal salvation.
I told u ....many non-Catholic Christians believe God/ Jesus (p) will burn Mother Teresa in hell fire. It means many Christians don' t believe that '' those who live by Christ's Message and accept Christ as their Savior will indeed be forgiven and granted eternal salvation ''



Reply

Keltoi
05-20-2007, 07:00 PM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman




Salaam/peace ,




I told u ....many non-Catholic Christians believe God/ Jesus (p) will burn Mother Teresa in hell fire. It means many Christians don' t believe that '' those who live by Christ's Message and accept Christ as their Savior will indeed be forgiven and granted eternal salvation ''


Well, I don't know where you get this belief about non-Catholics believing Mother Teresa is in hell fire. I've never heard that before, so I don't think that is a common belief.
Reply

extinction
05-20-2007, 07:06 PM
The Christian( said it on purpose) who shot up VT asked the same question as the title of this thread in his manifesto that he wrote to NBC
Reply

Keltoi
05-20-2007, 07:09 PM
Originally Posted by hafizmo
The Christian( said it on purpose) who shot up VT asked the same question as the title of this thread in his manifesto that he wrote to NBC
Firstly, the VT shooter wasn't a Christian, at least not actively or practicing. He compared himself to Christ and compared his suffering to Christ...never heard anything about him asking a specific question about why Jesus's sacrifice was unique.
Reply

Muslim Woman
05-21-2007, 12:17 AM


Salaam/peace ,


Originally Posted by Keltoi
Well, I don't know where you get this belief about non-Catholics believing Mother Teresa is in hell fire. I've never heard that before, so I don't think that is a common belief.
In this forum , a Catholic told us that his family members are non-Catholics & he always heard that Catholics will go to hell. Insha Allah , i will try to find that post....so many threads are here.....it will take time.

i just browsed & found these.

Is Mother Theresa A Christian?


Mother Theresa is not a Christian. She is an idolater that worships bread, wine, statues, and men.


God commands His people to stay away from people like this. Don't use her as an example in Sunday School classes. Don't use her as an example anywhere

Blasphemy from the Lips of Mother Theresa

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/mothther.htm

Reply

Keltoi
05-21-2007, 12:54 AM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman

Salaam/peace ,




In this forum , a Catholic told us that his family members are non-Catholics & he always heard that Catholics will go to hell. Insha Allah , i will try to find that post....so many threads are here.....it will take time.

i just browsed & found these.

Is Mother Theresa A Christian?


Mother Theresa is not a Christian. She is an idolater that worships bread, wine, statues, and men.


God commands His people to stay away from people like this. Don't use her as an example in Sunday School classes. Don't use her as an example anywhere

Blasphemy from the Lips of Mother Theresa

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/mothther.htm
Well, that is a personal opinion and not recognized Protestant doctrine.
Reply

Muslim Woman
05-21-2007, 03:18 AM




Salaam/peace ,


Originally Posted by Keltoi
Well, that is a personal opinion and not recognized Protestant doctrine.
ok , pl. tell me about recognized Protestant doctrine. All Jews & All Christians will go to heaven ?

If not , then who are those unfortunate Jews & Christians who will be roasted in fire ?

I know , God knows well . But , can u give me an idea/ do u have any criteria to say , who could be that poor Christian who after declaring that Jesus (p) is my Saviour will not be saved ?



Reply

Abdul-Raouf
05-21-2007, 03:27 AM
why death (he didnt die yet is the truth) of Jesus (AS) was unique....

Prophet Jesus (AS) asked dua to Allah that he want to be in the Ummah of Prophet Mohammed(SAS)..... his dua was accepted by Allah... and thus Allah raised him to heaven ..thus Jesus(AS) is yet to die...

Allah will send Jesus (AS) bck to earth... in the future... and make him part of our Ummah...... only after that Jesus(AS) will taste death.....


Reply

Grace Seeker
05-21-2007, 09:12 PM
Originally Posted by hafizmo
The Christian( said it on purpose) who shot up VT asked the same question as the title of this thread in his manifesto that he wrote to NBC

Originally Posted by Keltoi
Firstly, the VT shooter wasn't a Christian, at least not actively or practicing. He compared himself to Christ and compared his suffering to Christ...never heard anything about him asking a specific question about why Jesus's sacrifice was unique.
Secondly, the VT shooter was also suspected by some to be a Mulsim because of some of the other things he did. And others suspected him to be a Buddhist, simply because of his country of origin. I've never heard any definitive answer to his beliefs (or lack of them) except to say that they were confused.
Reply

Grace Seeker
05-21-2007, 09:24 PM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman

Salaam/peace ,




In this forum , a Catholic told us that his family members are non-Catholics & he always heard that Catholics will go to hell. Insha Allah , i will try to find that post....so many threads are here.....it will take time.

i just browsed & found these.

Is Mother Theresa A Christian?


Mother Theresa is not a Christian. She is an idolater that worships bread, wine, statues, and men.


God commands His people to stay away from people like this. Don't use her as an example in Sunday School classes. Don't use her as an example anywhere

Blasphemy from the Lips of Mother Theresa

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/mothther.htm

Muslim Woman, you can find many people who spout hate and still take on the name of Christian. You could also find many people who spout hate and still take on the name of Islam. In my opinion, hate-mongering "Christians" are about as Christian as hate-mongering "Muslims" are Muslim.
Reply

Grace Seeker
05-21-2007, 09:28 PM
Originally Posted by Muzammil
why death (he didnt die yet is the truth) of Jesus (AS) was unique....

Prophet Jesus (AS) asked dua to Allah that he want to be in the Ummah of Prophet Mohammed(SAS)..... his dua was accepted by Allah... and thus Allah raised him to heaven ..thus Jesus(AS) is yet to die...

Allah will send Jesus (AS) bck to earth... in the future... and make him part of our Ummah...... only after that Jesus(AS) will taste death.....


Yes, Musammil, Keltoi and I understand that these are your beliefs as a good Muslim, and also the teachings of the Muhammad (pbuh). However, we are trying to answer Muslim Woman's questions about the teachings of Christianity and therefore we have to turn to something other than the Qur'an and Hadith for an answer.
Reply

Muslim Woman
05-22-2007, 04:48 PM




Salaam/peace ,


Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
we are trying to answer Muslim Woman's questions about the teachings of Christianity ...

I read somewhere that among Christians 80 % are Catholics . i noticed in few sites words like that Christians & Catholics ( as if Catholics are not Christians ) . And as i mentioned earlier , many Christians believe Mother Teresa won't be saved.

So , if minority Chrisitans think majority Chiritians are NOT going to be saved , does not it sound very strange & made the death of Jesus (p) totally meaningless ???????




Reply

glo
05-22-2007, 05:06 PM
Greetings, Muslim Woman

Keltoi has mentioned twice that he has never heard of any such claim that Mother Teresa will go to hell:
Originally Posted by Keltoi
I'm not Catholic and I've never heard any Protestant minister state that Catholics are going to Hell. Not saying it doesn't happen, just haven't experienced it myself. Individuals say alot of things, but the fact remains that God will be the ultimate judge of salvation.
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Well, I don't know where you get this belief about non-Catholics believing Mother Teresa is in hell fire. I've never heard that before, so I don't think that is a common belief.
I have to agree with Keltoi.
I have never come across any such claim amongst any Christian denomination.

Now, that's not to say that there are not some Christians who make such claims ... but I think we can speak for the mainstream denominations.

Perhaps it would be helpful if you could speficy a little just how many Christians you think have that belief, and how you come to that conclusion.

But aside of how many people do or do not make such claims, you also have to remember that people can sometimes be very judgmental and like to 'play God' by judging others.
I have seen both Christians and Muslims being very quick to pass judgment on their fellow believers and branding them as 'good' or 'bad' believers.
You know,and I know that it is wrong of us to do so.

The final judgment will be God's and God's alone. He knows Mother Teresa's heart as well as any of our hearts.
After all God knows best! :statisfie

Peace be with you.
Reply

Muslim Woman
05-22-2007, 05:14 PM




Salaam/peace ,


Originally Posted by glo
Greetings, Muslim Woman
welcome back , enjoyed a holiday ? :)

about Mother Teresa's going to hell .....i first read about it in a revert story . A Christian was shocked when s/he first heard this from the Pastor ( ! ).

I've to look for it ....don't know how long it will take as i regularly read revert stories .....it may take time to find out a specific one .

Ok , tell me , why in Christian sites , i noticed ' Christians & Catholics ??? What's the meaning of it ????


Another question came in to mind : Vatican City will soon declare Mother Teresa as a Saint . Then many Catholics will pray to her directly instead of praying to God. ......will not it be considered as blasphemy ?????

Let's agree that Mother Teresa will go to heaven but what will happen to them who will commit blashphemy ? just because they believed in death of Jesus (p) , after committing a major sin regarding Bible , they will still manage to go to heaven ?

Reply

Grace Seeker
05-22-2007, 06:19 PM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman




Salaam/peace ,




welcome back , enjoyed a holiday ? :)

about Mother Teresa's going to hell .....i first read about it in a revert story . A Christian was shocked when s/he first heard this from the Pastor ( ! ).

I've to look for it ....don't know how long it will take as i regularly read revert stories .....it may take time to find out a specific one .

Ok , tell me , why in Christian sites , i noticed ' Christians & Catholics ??? What's the meaning of it ????

Honestly, I have no idea what the meaning of such a heading or title would be. It seems rather strange and nonsensical to me.


Now, as far as non-Catholic Christians who do not like Catholicism, yes, I have heard of some of them. My grandmother for one. Even with her I never understood it. It seemed like this was just an area of prejuidice in her life. In other words, I would think that such a hateful approach to others, who are in fact our brothers and sisters in Christ, would be sinful. But that is something they are each going to have to individually discuss with Christ when they get to heaven.

You seem intent on seeing this dark side, that again I say is itself not a Christian attitude (even it is Christians who have it), so I am going to give you a link to one of the most dispicable supposedly "Christian" websites I can imagine: Jack Chick Publications. If you go there you will find all sorts of anti-Catholic rhetoric. But be warned, you will also find anti-everything but Jack Chick's own personal view of Christianity. Some of the things he believes are believed by many other Christians, but not nearly everything. So, do NOT think that if you find it on this website that other Christians are going to be able to explain to you why Christians think such-and-such. Instead, those of us who you meet here might tell you that Christians do not think those things, because the is also much on this website that Christians do not believe, though Jack Chick tries to convince Christians that we should. So, if you read his stuff, be discerning. Don't believe it all; don't reject it all. There are both truths and lies as to what Christians do and do not believe on this Jack Chick Publications website.







Another question came in to mind : Vatican City will soon declare Mother Teresa as a Saint . Then many Catholics will pray to her directly instead of praying to God. ......will not it be considered as blasphemy ?????

Let's agree that Mother Teresa will go to heaven but what will happen to them who will commit blashphemy ? just because they believed in death of Jesus (p) , after committing a major sin regarding Bible , they will still manage to go to heaven ?
If you think of prayer as conversation, which is in essence what prayer is when boiled down to its bare essentials, then praying to God becomes a conversation wtih God. But is God the only person that one can or even should have a conversation with? So, since the saints are not dead (oh I know we don't see them on earth, but they are still alive) but are alive with Jesus, then prayer to them is just an attempt to be in conversation with them. Now, personally, I don't see the point -- one can have a one-sided conversation with a human being who is already in heaven, or one can have a two-way conversation with God himself. The second makes immienantly more sense to me, but some prefer for their own personal reasons to do the former. They think that God is more likely to hear the prayers of someone who is already in heaven than their own. So, they pray to these "saints" like Mother Theresa and ask them to pray to God on their behalf.

It isn't blasphemy, because they don't think of these saints as anything other than righteous individuals that are already in heaven. They know these are people not God, and they aren't praying to them as a form of worship, but as a request for aid in their prayers to God. But, I think it is unnecessary, as Jesus makes it possible for us to go directly to God with our needs and concerns ourselves. We don't need any one else doing for us what Christ has enabled us to do for ourselves.


Your idea of major and minor sins is not one that I accept as valid. All sins are sins. Even the tiniest one is enough to keep us from heaven if we had to get their on our on merit by being perfect. Even the largest one is not bigger than God's love for us nor bigger than the atonement Christ made for us on the cross.
Reply

glo
05-22-2007, 06:20 PM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
[
Salaam/peace ,

welcome back , enjoyed a holiday ? :)
I did, thank you. :)
I feel very rested and relaxed ... :D

about Mother Teresa's going to hell .....i first read about it in a revert story . A Christian was shocked when s/he first heard this from the Pastor ( ! ).

I've to look for it ....don't know how long it will take as i regularly read revert stories .....it may take time to find out a specific one .
That's interesting.
Not wanting to belittle this story, but I tend to take converts' stories (from and to any religion) with a large pinch of salt. In my experience they often have their own agenda ... and very often that agenda is to discredit the religion the person in question has converted from... :-[

Ok , tell me , why in Christian sites , i noticed ' Christians & Catholics ??? What's the meaning of it ????
Different denominations, different interpretations ...
I suppose really one should say 'Catholics and Protestants, Methodists, Baptists, Anglicans, non-denominational churches etc, etc.'
But regardless of the differences between these groups, the core beliefs remain the same.

And, as I said before, nobody can pass judgment on how 'holy', 'good' or 'godly' the next person is ... that's for God alone to judge.

Don't forget that there are differences within Islam too.
Not for no reason does LI discourage sectarian discussions. It would be confusing for non-Muslims to get caught up in sectarian debates between Sunni and Shia - just as you find it confusing on Christian sites.

Another question came in to mind : Vatican City will soon declare Mother Teresa as a Saint . Then many Catholics will pray to her directly instead of praying to God. ......will not it be considered as blasphemy ?????
Catholics have many saints. Catholics I have spoken to have explained that they do not pray to the saints, but pray to God through the saints.
Personally, I pray to God directly.
But again ... who am I to pass judgment?

Peace, sister
Reply

Muslim Woman
05-23-2007, 12:21 AM




Salaam/peace ,

Originally Posted by Grace Seeker


I would think that such a hateful approach to others, who are in fact our brothers and sisters in Christ, would be sinful..
I don't think ,it's a hateful approach....surely they don't have any personal hatred towards Catholics. What they are thinking , that is based on their sincere religious belief.

I guess , they just sincerely believe that by making statues of Jesus (p) & Mother Mary (p) & put them inside the Churches & bowing infront of statues ....as all these are prohibited regarding Bible ....... Catholics are sinners / doing blashphemy .

Make statue for worship worship.......i m 100 % sure that Catholics won't be able to show any Biblical verse that supports it.



But that is something they are each going to have to individually discuss with Christ when they get to heaven.

by violating God's command that is also in 10th commandments -- ( not the exact words ) don't make statue ........idol makers / worshippers will go to heaven ?

Do u believe Hindus who also believe in Trinity concept & make idols for worshipping will also go to heaven ?


You seem intent on seeing this dark side,
--why it's dark side ? I m trying to understand why Jesus (p) died & why his death is so unique to Christians ?


If so many Chrisitans believe majority Christians are going to hell , then the purpose of his death became useless ( sorry if this sounds negative criticism or hurts anyone's feelings ) . But i really want to understand.


since the saints are not dead (oh I know we don't see them on earth, but they are still alive) but are alive with Jesus, then prayer to them is just an attempt to be in conversation with them.
do they also believe Saints have power to accept the prayer ? If not , then why not pray DIRECTLY TO GOD ? Is it prohibited for Christians to pray directly to father ?'



one can have a two-way conversation with God himself.

can u explain it ? If u talk to God directly , u can feel God is talking to u or u feel peace & tha't the response from God ?




Jesus makes it possible for us to go directly to God with our needs and concerns ourselves. We don't need any one else doing for us what Christ has enabled us to do for ourselves.
so non-Catholics do pray dircetly to God & NOT via Jesus (p) ?



.....Even the tiniest one is enough to keep us from heaven .

umm..like calling someone Foolish ? This sin & killing hundreds innocent lives.....these 2 sins are same to u ?

I guess , i will never understand Christianity.....i m tooooooooooooooo dumb for this relilgion :-[

Reply

Muslim Woman
05-23-2007, 12:32 AM




Salaam/peace ,


Originally Posted by glo
I feel very rested and relaxed ... :D

glad to know that :statisfie , BTW we missed u , Christians sisters are so few in this forum ...anyone's absence/leaving forum is a bad news






Don't forget that there are differences within Islam too.
.

fortunately :statisfie , Sunni & Shia do believe that God is one ----that's the most imp matter in Islam.




Personally, I pray to God directly.
that's wonderful :)

to my knowledge , Jesus (p) also prayed to God directly without the help of Saints or via himself.



But again ... who am I to pass judgment?
if u think , others are violating God's commands , then i think , u must warn him/her.


Peace, sister

and peace to u , too :D

Reply

Grace Seeker
05-23-2007, 02:40 AM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
by violating God's command that is also in 10th commandments -- ( not the exact words ) don't make statue ........idol makers / worshippers will go to heaven ?
Not sure what you are asking here. Obviously, people don't go diirectly to heaven BECAUSE they violate God's commands. It is possible for people who viiolate God's commands to still go to heaven, inspite of doing so, BECAUSE he grants them grace and forgiveness. Catholics would not consider themselves to be idol worshippers. Why, because they don't worship idols. Yes, they may have statutes of people in their churches, but the idea that this is forbidden by the 10 Commandments is an interpretation of the scripture:
Exodus 20
4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.
It says don't make any idols. To understand what that means I have to ask some questions:
1) Are all statutes idols? In my understanding of what and idol is, not all statutes are automatically also idols.
2) Or are idols a particular type of statute? Yes, idols are a particular type of statute. A statue that one would create and then claim was one's god or worship as a god or would consider to have divine power like God would be an idol.
3) Can things that are not statutes also be idols? I believe the answer to this is also yes. Any created thing that we substitute for God would be an idol, be it money or a family relationship or even God's own book, the Bible. None of these things should be worshipped, only God.


Do u believe Hindus who also believe in Trinity concept & make idols for worshipping will also go to heaven ?
Whether or not Hindus will also go to heaven is something I can't answer. They like Muslims need to depend entirely on the grace of God. There is a guarantee only for those who have already committed their lives into a trust relationship with God that they will indeed be recipients of his grace.



--why it's dark side ? I m trying to understand why Jesus (p) died & why his death is so unique to Christians ?
I am not saying that trying to understand this question is looking at the dark side. I am saying that if one reads the Jack Chick Publication stuff, then you will (in my personal opinion) be looking at the dark side of Christianity. And the reason I feel that way about Jack Chick is not because I think he is insincere. I do think he is sincere, but I think he is also sincerely wrong, and expresses himself in ways that are not loving. Though I do believe he sincerely intends them to be loving; they don't come across that way to others.


If so many Chrisitans believe majority Christians are going to hell , then the purpose of his death became useless ( sorry if this sounds negative criticism or hurts anyone's feelings ) . But i really want to understand.
Well, while there are a few who call themselves Christians who believe that there are others who also happen to call themselves Christian that are going to hell. That does not mean that Christians believe that other Christians will be going to hell. Sadly, what I see happening is best examplified by someone like Jack Chick. He is a Christian, and he thinks that Catholics are going to hell. But he also doesn't think that Catholics are really Christians. The only people he thinks are Christian are those who believe exactly as he does, and none of them are going to hell. In Jack Chick's mind, Jesus' died for the sins of those who believe in him, and he does not think that Catholic really believe in Jesus but in something that the Catholic Church has invented that isn't the real Jesus.

As I have said, I don't agree with Jack Chick on this. Nor do most other Christian that I know. So, the truth is that while there are a few Christians that might think as Jack Chick does, the situation you asked about (many Chrisitans believe majority Christians are going to hell) does not actually exist.


On the other part, the purpose of Jesus' death, I am in the midst of writing another of my long responses. But I have been too busy to complete it yet. I'll be sure to let you know when I am done. However, give me another week, at least.



do they also believe Saints have power to accept the prayer ? If not , then why not pray DIRECTLY TO GOD ? Is it prohibited for Christians to pray directly to father ?'
Remember, I am not a Catholic, so I could be mis-stating some of their views. But as best I understand it, yes, they believe that Saints have the power to receive the prayer, but then the saints would pass on those prayers to God on behalf of those who originally prayed to them.

Your next question is one that I ask myself of the whole aspect of praying to saints. The best response I have heard (which doesn't quite cut it for me) is that the prayers of these saints, viewed (mistakenly in my mind) as "super" Christians, might have a better chance of being heard than those of the average Christian.

No, it is not prohibited anywhere for a Christian to pray directly to the Father. Indeed, Jesus taught his disciples to pray in that pattern. All Christians do this. But whether one is praying to God the Father, God the Son, or God the Holy Spirit it is all the same because you are still praying to the one and the same God which ever way you pray.



can u explain it ? If u talk to God directly , u can feel God is talking to u or u feel peace & tha't the response from God ?
Sometimes yes to the first, sometimes yes to the second, sometimes yes to both.




so non-Catholics do pray dircetly to God & NOT via Jesus (p) ?
I sort of explained this above. Non-Catholic Christians do pray directly to God. Sometimes that prayer is to God the Father and is directly to him. Someitmes that prayer is to God the Son and is directly to him. Sometimes (though probably rarer) that prayer is to God the Holy Spirit and is directly to him. All of these prayers would be the very same prayer offered to the very same being. All are prayers prayed directly to the one and the same God. They wouldn't be three different sets of prayers. And they certainly wouldn't be understood as prayed to three different beings. We just don't understand there to be more than one God, so all the prayers would in effect be to the same being, to the one and only God and none other than him.

Now, just to confuse you more: we might pray to God the Father through God the Son (i.e. Jesus), that would be like asking God to speak himself on on our behalf. Yes, sometimes we can get very close to schizophrenic in our prayer life. And I've even done it myself, but the whole concept is sort of redundant, if you've prayed to Jesus you have prayed to the Father at the same time, you don't really have to ask Jesus to take these prayers to the Father for you. Remember, they are one and the same being, it isn't like there is a second God or anything, so the whole idea of praying to God via Jesus is rather redundant.





umm..like calling someone Foolish ? This sin & killing hundreds innocent lives.....these 2 sins are same to u ?
A sin is a sin is a sin in my opinion. If the way to paradise consisted of jumping a huge canyon 1000 meters across with hell at the bottom, and you jumped 999.99 meters and only fell .01 meter short, would you be more likely to end up in paradise than the person who only jumped 1 meter and fell 999 meters short? Or would you both end up in hell just the same? Sin is any falling short, it doesn't matter by how little or how much. The cross of Jesus fills that canyon and becomes a bridge that we can cross rather than having to jump it for ourselves.

Faith in Christ is trusting the bridge to be able to support us and that he will help us cross safely to the other side. Non-Christians are invited to cross the bridge too, but in doing so, they are in essence trusting Christ, even though they may not realize that this is what they have done.


I guess , i will never understand Christianity.....i m tooooooooooooooo dumb for this relilgion :-[
We are each preconditioned to have certain expectations about even our basic concepts about God that may not be those shared by other religions. So, we have to learn not just the words, but what those words mean for other people. That is like learning a new language, only in this case you are trying not just to learn the language but to think like a native while still living in a different culture. You aren't too dumb, but it does take time. On the whole I would say that you are learning a great deal rather quickly. But it is a life long process for all of us, we are never fully there until we are there with Christ.
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 09-21-2010, 05:52 PM
  2. Replies: 29
    Last Post: 02-06-2009, 04:29 PM
  3. Replies: 17
    Last Post: 12-21-2008, 09:17 PM
  4. Replies: 13
    Last Post: 08-05-2007, 09:15 PM
  5. Replies: 26
    Last Post: 01-28-2006, 01:27 PM

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!