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north_malaysian
05-14-2007, 08:40 AM
NIK AZIZ: PREACHERS MUST NOT IMPOSE ON OTHERS


KOTA BHARU: Islamic missionaries and those propagating its teachings must not impose their religious beliefs on others, said Chief Minister and PAS (Parti Islam SeMalaysia - PAN MALAYSIA ISLAMIC PARTY) Spiritual Adviser Datuk Nik Aziz Nik Mat.

"Islam must be embraced voluntarily and sincerely, especially among converts who come to the religion because of sheer belief or those who adopt the faith because of marriage," Nik Aziz said when launching the state's month-long "Dakwah" (missionary activities) campaign at Balai Islam here.

"We cannot force people to enter Heaven. They must do it on their own will.

"We can guide them but we cannot force."


He said that, similarly, all political parties could not impose their ideologies on people.

Nik Aziz who is Chempaka assemblyman, said politicians must be ashamed if they impose their will and ideologies on the weak.

"It's not intellectual or rational to impose a value system of politics. Islam does not do it, so why must they?

"There is no capital to gain when Judgment Day befalls them in their spiritual life."

He also said that missionaries were being overwhelmed by the rise of social ills from incest, rape, corruption, snatch thefts and murder.

This campaign was launched to help missionaries and those propagating Islam to find new ways to counter the rise of evils in the society, Nik Aziz said.

SOURCE: THE STAR, 14.05.2007, page N6
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Umar001
05-14-2007, 08:47 AM
Maybe they should enforce the laws instead of the religion? What with rapes and murders going on.

or those who adopt the faith because of marriage,

Erm?
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north_malaysian
05-14-2007, 08:53 AM
The problem is that most of those crime mentioned are done by Muslims.

We have stricts laws (eventhough it's based on British Common Laws) and enforcement.
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Umar001
05-14-2007, 08:55 AM
So why they do it, I mean how come they getting away with it?
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north_malaysian
05-14-2007, 09:00 AM
Originally Posted by Al Habeshi
So why they do it, I mean how come they getting away with it?
As long as there are no police reports made against them..... of course they're getting away from it.

Actually, the social ills among Malaysian Muslims is ultimately worrying all of us. So, rather than islamising the Non Muslims, the lapsed Muslims should have being approached too... at least not to do those crimes. Especially incest and rape (maybe because too many porno DVDs available).
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Umar001
05-14-2007, 09:03 AM
So they have capital punishment for rapist and murderers?
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syilla
05-14-2007, 09:13 AM
May 10, 2007 20:27 PM

70 Years Jail And 34 Strokes Of The Rotan For Serial Rapist


KUALA LUMPUR, May 10 (Bernama) -- A serial rapist, currently serving a 50-year jail sentence and 24 strokes of the rotan for raping and sodomising women and children, was slapped with another 20 years jail and 10 strokes by the Ampang Sessions Court today for raping and performing unnatural sex with a 15-year-old girl.

Judge Noradidah Ahmad sentenced Ismail Shah Abdul Wahab to 20 years jail and six strokes of the rotan for rape and 10 years and four strokes for committing unnatural sex after he pleaded guilty to committing the offences on the girl in an undergrowth behind Sekolah Menengah Kebangsaan Hulu Kelang, Ampang Jaya, at 4.50pm on Aug 19, 2004.

She ordered the sentences to run concurrently and to be served after Ismail Shah had completed the current terms for his previous convictions.

In all, Ismail Shah Abdul Wahab, 24, will be in jailed for 70 years and given 34 strokes of the rotan.

Noradidah, when handing down the sentence, described Ismail Shah's action as inhuman and said that sending him to prison was most appropriate to keep him away from the society and prevent him from committing the heinous crime again.

Ismail Shah and did not show any emotion when Noradidah handed down the sentence.

On Jan 16, the Kuala Lumpur Sessions Court sentenced Ismail Shah to 50 years jail and 24 strokes of the rotan after he pleaded guilty to seven counts of raping, sodomising and performing unnatural sex on three victims, aged 24, 16 and 12.

The offences were committed at Ixora Apartment Jalan Tun Razak and the Bamvilla Condo, Taman Maluri, Cheras on Dec 9 2004, Feb 2 2005 and Aug 3 2006.

Three days ago, the Magistrate Court here sentenced Ismail Shah to five years jail and two strokes of the rotan for abducting and molesting two girls, aged 18 and 12, last July, which sentence is to begin from the date of his arrest on was Aug 9 last year.

-- BERNAMA
source

24 year old guy who got caught... urghh...
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Pk_#2
05-14-2007, 09:47 AM
Astaghfirullah! :( :'(

JazakAllah sis and bro for articles

Hmm...

AsalamuAlaykum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh Wa Maghfiratuh
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Muslim Knight
05-14-2007, 10:47 AM
Originally Posted by Al Habeshi

or those who adopt the faith because of marriage,

Erm?
Malaysian Sharia courts do not permit a Muslim to marry a non-Muslim. So what happens is that many non-Muslims convert to Islam in order to marry, then apostisize upon dissolution of marriage (i.e. when divorce occurs).
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Mawaddah
05-14-2007, 01:36 PM
:sl:

You know, My mother told me that she read on the Malay news (must be some PAS website I guess) that when some non-Muslims come to the Pejabat Agama in order to take the Shahadah and register themselves as Muslims, the people there tell them " Are you really sure you want to become Muslim? Why dont you go home and think about it first "

I was shocked! I mean someone comes and wants to become Muslim, and you tell him to go home and think about it first, does that make sense?

But then, first of all, Is what my mother read true? lol
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north_malaysian
05-15-2007, 07:35 AM
Originally Posted by Mawaddah
:sl:

You know, My mother told me that she read on the Malay news (must be some PAS website I guess) that when some non-Muslims come to the Pejabat Agama in order to take the Shahadah and register themselves as Muslims, the people there tell them " Are you really sure you want to become Muslim? Why dont you go home and think about it first "

I was shocked! I mean someone comes and wants to become Muslim, and you tell him to go home and think about it first, does that make sense?

But then, first of all, Is what my mother read true? lol
I dont know.... but my family managed to islamise a Chinese man years ago. And there is no such thing that they (the people from Religious Dept.) asked him to go home and rethink. But after he converted to Islam, he was disowned by his family. So we have to support him living as a Muslim. He loves Islam so much and went to Sekolah Pondok (Traditional Madrasa) in Kelantan. Now he's a very religious person and his non-Muslim family started accepting him again when he got his first son (He's married to my father's cousin). He also managed to Islamise his younger brother.
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Mawaddah
05-16-2007, 01:46 AM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
I dont know.... but my family managed to islamise a Chinese man years ago. And there is no such thing that they (the people from Religious Dept.) asked him to go home and rethink. But after he converted to Islam, he was disowned by his family. So we have to support him living as a Muslim. He loves Islam so much and went to Sekolah Pondok (Traditional Madrasa) in Kelantan. Now he's a very religious person and his non-Muslim family started accepting him again when he got his first son (He's married to my father's cousin). He also managed to Islamise his younger brother.
Masha'allah that's so wonderful to hear.May Allah always keep him and his brother guided on the straight path Ameen.
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syilla
05-16-2007, 01:47 AM
Originally Posted by Mawaddah
:sl:

You know, My mother told me that she read on the Malay news (must be some PAS website I guess) that when some non-Muslims come to the Pejabat Agama in order to take the Shahadah and register themselves as Muslims, the people there tell them " Are you really sure you want to become Muslim? Why dont you go home and think about it first "

I was shocked! I mean someone comes and wants to become Muslim, and you tell him to go home and think about it first, does that make sense?

But then, first of all, Is what my mother read true? lol
I watched the television the other day, showing that in Thailand...they have to learn Islam (classes are provided for them) for one year before they can convert to Islam.

And most of them love Islam so much...that they say shahadah nonformally and even wear hijab before they are registered as muslim.

In my opinion, you don't really need the authority to convert to islam...
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Muslim Knight
05-16-2007, 02:00 AM
Originally Posted by syilla
I watched the television the other day, showing that in Thailand...they have to learn Islam (classes are provided for them) for one year before they can convert to Islam.

And most of them love Islam so much...that they say shahadah nonformally and even wear hijab before they are registered as muslim.

In my opinion, you don't really need the authority to convert to islam...

I can agree to this. Needing to register as a Muslim makes things more complicated than it should be. Testimonial of relatives and close friends should be enough at the event of death. Sad when a piece of document determines whether you die as a kaffir or a Muslim.
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Woodrow
05-16-2007, 02:09 AM
The thought that comes to mind is legal recognition=Taxation

I'm not too certain what will be taxed but I see the Government making money off of this. Perhaps a license fee to be able to "Legaly" call yourself a Muslim?
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north_malaysian
05-16-2007, 07:06 AM
Muslims must be registered... to avoid any confusions when the reverts died.
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syilla
05-16-2007, 07:47 AM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
The thought that comes to mind is legal recognition=Taxation

I'm not too certain what will be taxed but I see the Government making money off of this. Perhaps a license fee to be able to "Legaly" call yourself a Muslim?
nah...not really...every one non-muslims and muslims will be taxed. We have zakat too for the muslims...and they don't have to pay tax if they pay zakat.

The only problem is the shariaah law...cause the shariah law is only for the muslims. Especially when comes to marriage and divorce. :blind:
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north_malaysian
05-16-2007, 08:15 AM
Some Anti-IRC (Inter-Faith Commission) people claims that IRC wants Non-Muslims to have their shares in Zakat money too. Is it true? Because I asked my friends who supporting IRC, and they claimed that those allegations are baseless.

P/S: Most of my friends support IRC.
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Muslim Knight
05-16-2007, 08:46 AM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Some Anti-IRC (Inter-Faith Commission) people claims that IRC wants Non-Muslims to have their shares in Zakat money too. Is it true? Because I asked my friends who supporting IRC, and they claimed that those allegations are baseless.

P/S: Most of my friends support IRC.
IRC is all bulls. Non-Muslim organizations ganging up on Islam and the rights of Muslims in Malaysia.
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iqbal_soofi
05-16-2007, 08:48 PM
Originally Posted by Al Habeshi
Maybe they should enforce the laws instead of the religion? What with rapes and murders going on.

or those who adopt the faith because of marriage,

Erm?
They should make the laws according to sharia and get the approval from the majority (Muslims) first about whatever laws they make. Simply claiming any kind of law to be Islamic and imposing on the Muslims in the name of Islam is not good.

We should study all the rape cases that were registered under the Hudood ordinance in different Muslim countries. We should try to see how many rapists were punished by these laws and also see how many victims had to go through a long ordeal after registering the case instead of getting any relief.
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iqbal_soofi
05-16-2007, 08:52 PM
Originally Posted by Muslim Knight
IRC is all bulls. Non-Muslim organizations ganging up on Islam and the rights of Muslims in Malaysia.
What do you mean by rights of Muslims by the way?

Are they any different from the rights of other humans?

As far as I understand that in Malaysia every human has a right to practice his/her own religion. Muslims are not discriminated from others. However, they're not allowed to impose their religion on others, just like others are not allowed to impose theirs on Muslims.
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Muslim Knight
05-17-2007, 12:58 AM
Originally Posted by iqbal_soofi
What do you mean by rights of Muslims by the way?

Are they any different from the rights of other humans?

As far as I understand that in Malaysia every human has a right to practice his/her own religion. Muslims are not discriminated from others. However, they're not allowed to impose their religion on others, just like others are not allowed to impose theirs on Muslims.
Of course in Malaysia the freedom of religion is enshrined within the Federal Constitution. Furthermore, the Constitution provides protection so that Islam continues to be the official state religion and that while the followers of other religion are free to teach others about their religions, they are not allowed to proselytize to Muslims.

The IRC seeks to abolish this. It also aims at having the offspring of Muslims free to choose their own religion when they reach 21, in other words, to give the right of Muslims to become apostates. This, as Muslims, we have duty to oppose.

The IRC is not a forum for interfaith dialogue. It is a forum dominated by Sikhis and Christians seeking to undermine the sovereignty of Islam by telling Muslims what to do about Islam. To this date 41 Muslim NGOs in Malaysia have united to oppose the formation of IRC.
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iqbal_soofi
05-17-2007, 01:29 AM
Originally Posted by Muslim Knight
Of course in Malaysia the freedom of religion is enshrined within the Federal Constitution. Furthermore, the Constitution provides protection so that Islam continues to be the official state religion and that while the followers of other religion are free to teach others about their religions, they are not allowed to proselytize to Muslims.

The IRC seeks to abolish this. It also aims at having the offspring of Muslims free to choose their own religion when they reach 21, in other words, to give the right of Muslims to become apostates. This, as Muslims, we have duty to oppose.

The IRC is not a forum for interfaith dialogue. It is a forum dominated by Sikhis and Christians seeking to undermine the sovereignty of Islam by telling Muslims what to do about Islam. To this date 41 Muslim NGOs in Malaysia have united to oppose the formation of IRC.
So where is the rights of Muslims hurt in this way. Muslims are give more opportunity to convert others to Muslims when they reach 21. If they can prove that Islam is a better religion than others, then obviously other people would convert to Islam.
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syilla
05-17-2007, 02:01 AM
A little bit of information on Malaysia Islamic Law

Despite the ‘sensitivity' involved in all these cases, we still need to tackle the various related issues raised with great wisdom. Discussion of this sort requires a high degree of open mindedness between all affected parties. Concerns of numerous parties in cases of this nature are real, and NOBODY should underestimate its social, economic, political and religious consequences.

None, particularly the authorities, should be dismissive, simply sweeping things under the rug pretending as if a conflict and its ensuing repercussions do not exist or that nothing is wrong with our legal system. We do not want this whole issue to develop into a kind of ticking time bomb armed to blow apart our national solidarity so carefully nurtured by our forefathers and tirelessly emulated by the Government for decades.

People normally think and behave within the framework of certain legal precedents, be they divine or mundane. In the Malaysian context, this attitude has been shaped primarily by our Federal Constitution, the supreme law of the land. With regard to the problematic relationship between Syariah vis-à-vis civil laws, one may argue that perhaps the root cause is attributable to our esteemed Constitution.

The Ninth Schedule of the Constitution prescribes the legislative division of the federal and state governments. While the Federal List (List I) enumerates areas that come under the legislative powers of the Central Government, the State List (List II) put Malay customs, Islamic law and its administration under the responsibility of the State assemblies. It clearly states that the State legislatures are to preserve Islamic law as well as the constitution, organization and procedure of the Syariah courts which, in both situations, shall have jurisdiction only over persons professing the religion of Islam.
The State legislatures have accordingly consolidated these provisions in the various State Enactments/Acts. For example, section 46(2)(b) of the Administration of Islamic Law (Federal Territories) Act 1993, states that "A Syariah High court shall in its civil jurisdiction, hear and determine all actions and proceedings in which all the parties are Muslims...".


The same constitutional restrictive spirit is embedded in certain other civil statutory laws, such as in the Law Reform (Marriage and Divorce) Act, 1976. Section 3 clearly mentions that the Act shall not apply to a Muslim while section 51(1) states that if one party to a marriage has converted to Islam, the other party who has not so converted may petition for divorce. Meaning, the converting party is not given any opportunity to apply for dissolution of marriage under civil law.

Why all these limitations? It is these limitations that have partially-if not significantly-contributed to the worsening jurisdictional conflict and has triggered misunderstanding and friction in the pluralistic Malaysian society.
I believe that the learned framers of the Constitution, as well as the draftsmen at both national and state levels, were mistaken in putting such a limitation. It is unfortunate if the inclusion sprung out from their limited knowledge of Islam, thinking that Islamic courts are exclusively for Muslims. One may submit that these framers and draftsmen were unwitting factors responsible for opening ‘Pandora's box' which has subsequently created the confusion blanketing the nation today!

This fact is possibly what many are not aware of. From the early days of Islam, history shows that non-Muslims sought remedies to settle their disputes with Muslims in Islamic courts. One striking classic example is the dispute between the fourth rightly guided Caliph, Ali, then the head executive of the Islamic state, and a Jew. Both went to the court over ownership of a saddle. Based on the evidence presented before the court, the judgment meted out by the presiding Muslim judge was in favour of the Jew. One may conclude that even though the case involved the sovereign and a layman, both from two different religious backgrounds, there was no element of bias or suppression of justice.
Full article
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north_malaysian
05-17-2007, 06:23 AM
Originally Posted by Muslim Knight

The IRC seeks to abolish this. It also aims at having the offspring of Muslims free to choose their own religion when they reach 21, in other words, to give the right of Muslims to become apostates
Do you have any sources from Pro-IRC regarding to the above-mentioned aims?:?
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Muslim Knight
05-17-2007, 10:00 AM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Do you have any sources from Pro-IRC regarding to the above-mentioned aims?:?
If they seriously wants an interfaith dialogue, they shouldn't have used Interfaith Comission. A commission does something. For example it investigate claims and based on that, initiate actions. Secondly, the proposal entails that the commission should have policies and statutory powers. Statutory powers? To do what?

Of course they wouldn't admit it in the first place. They can't afford it to be rejected outright.

http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/33475
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north_malaysian
05-18-2007, 02:10 AM
Originally Posted by Muslim Knight
Statutory powers? To do what?
Yeah... to do what?:?
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