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Musaafirah
05-14-2007, 12:09 PM
:sl:
Didn't know where else to put this, but I was shocked when I found this out..
I can't have twix anymore! :(

Masterfoods' brands are household names
Some of the UK's best-selling chocolate bars, such as Mars and Twix, will no longer be suitable for vegetarians.
Also affecting brands such as Snickers and Maltesers, owner Masterfoods said it had started to use animal product rennet to make its chocolate products.

Masterfoods said the change was due to it switching the sourcing of its ingredients and the admission was a "principled decision" on its part.

The Vegetarian Society said the company's move was "incomprehensible".

'Extremely disappointed'

Masterfoods said it had started using rennet from 1 May and non-affected products had a "best before date" up to 1 October.

Masterfoods' decision to use non-vegetarian whey is a backward step

Vegetarian Society

Rennet, a chemical sourced from calves' stomachs, is used in the production of whey.

It will now also be found in Bounty, Minstrels and Milky Way products, and the ice cream versions of all Masterfoods' bars.

"If the customer is an extremely strict vegetarian, then we are sorry the products are no longer suitable, but a less strict vegetarian should enjoy our chocolate," said Paul Goalby, corporate affairs manager for Masterfoods.

The Vegetarian Society said it was "extremely disappointed".

"At a time when more and more consumers are concerned about the provenance of their food, Masterfoods' decision to use non-vegetarian whey is a backward step," it said in a statement.

"Mars products are very popular with young people and many will be shocked to discover that their manufacture now relies on the extraction of rennet from the stomach lining of young calves," it added.

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6653175.stm
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Re.TiReD
05-14-2007, 12:11 PM
yeh I got the text yesterday..dint know weather to beleive it or not tho :X lol not a big fan of chocolate anyway so itz kool :okay:
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-14-2007, 12:13 PM
Alhamdulillah, muslim children wil now have healthier teeth inshaAllah
Reply

Musaafirah
05-14-2007, 12:15 PM
Aww come on..that ain't fair..I loooooooooove chocolates, and Alhamdulillah my teeth are in 'mint' condition. I've never needed braces or fillings or anything, and I can still get away with having at least 2 bars of chocolate a day..so there :p
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Re.TiReD
05-14-2007, 12:17 PM
hmmm...can be quite confusing at times tho...I mean isnt it same with that ferrero Rocher or however you spelt it chocolate.?..half the time its halal and the next min we find out it isnt! maybe we all need to move to a Muslim country so we wont have any doubts
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-14-2007, 12:17 PM
^ on the other hand my nephew has 6 black teeth :offended:
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Musaafirah
05-14-2007, 12:22 PM
I think with milk teeth, it's easier for the teeth to rot quick..so it's best not to feed kids chocolate until the age of say 12, or until all of the baby teeth have fallen out..
and Umm Qalam, Fererro Roche is haraam? oh..
Well I've jus checked foodguide.org.uk
FERRERO ROCHER - HALAAL *
though: * These products contain calf whey syrup or cheese. Please refer to fatwa on this link:
http://www.gmwa.org.uk/foodguide2/vi...tID=1&compID=1

source: http://www.gmwa.org.uk/foodguide2/in...uestion&id=167

yup, maybe it's best to move to a Muslim country, but where?
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IbnAbdulHakim
05-14-2007, 12:23 PM
yeah i dont consider bangladesh an islamic country at all anymore.

i've pondered over this quite a bit actually and i've decided to just stay here, i cant think of any place where true islam is implemented
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Musaafirah
05-14-2007, 12:26 PM
Exactly, I feel that we are given enough freedom to practice our own religion here, besides I feel most comfortable here.
Also, the chocolates in Bangladesh taste naff..
Reply

Re.TiReD
05-14-2007, 12:26 PM
maybe we should nick abit of land somewhere and call it Islamicity and live there....hmmmm, that would be so kool, but abit of a farfetched dream unfortunately
Reply

mohammed farah
05-14-2007, 12:28 PM
ARRGGGGGGH...............I love mars mini.................what am i going to do now
Reply

Musaafirah
05-14-2007, 12:28 PM
Or we can all move to an uninhabited Island, and appoint a khalifa and ensure that the rules of Shariah are followed and have only halaal chocolates made there (Are we going off topic?)
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-14-2007, 12:28 PM
Originally Posted by *UmmQalam*
maybe we should nick abit of land somewhere and call it Islamicity and live there....hmmmm, that would be so kool, but abit of a farfetched dream unfortunately
didnt a brother post a thread on LI about buying an island before lol?

seriously im pretty sure ive seen it, he wanted a completely shariah implemented lil island, imagine us all living in tree houses!!!! that wud be :eek:
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Re.TiReD
05-14-2007, 12:29 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
didnt a brother post a thread on LI about buying an island before lol?

seriously im pretty sure ive seen it, he wanted a completely shariah implemented lil island, imagine us all living in tree houses!!!! that wud be :eek:
haha! wasnt it YOU? lol
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IbnAbdulHakim
05-14-2007, 12:29 PM
Originally Posted by mohammed farah
ARRGGGGGGH...............I love mars mini.................what am i going to do now
have porridge :D
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-14-2007, 12:29 PM
Originally Posted by *UmmQalam*
haha! wasnt it YOU? lol
WAS IT ME :uuh:
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Re.TiReD
05-14-2007, 12:32 PM
lol am sure you did post a really nice pic of a lil island somewhere? or am I just gettin amnesia? :? hehe
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Nyomi
05-14-2007, 12:32 PM
No more Malteasers??? Nooooooooo :( :(
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-14-2007, 12:33 PM
Originally Posted by *UmmQalam*
lol am sure you did post a really nice pic of a lil island somewhere? or am I just gettin amnesia? :? hehe
yeah but that was about living in an island lol, another bro posted a propa topic about everyone pitching in and purchasing an island.


btw do we need to even purchase one? im sure theres an uninhabited one out there somewhere! we just have to go and tame the wild beasts
Reply

Musaafirah
05-14-2007, 12:34 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
yeah but that was about living in an island lol, another bro posted a propa topic about everyone pitching in and purchasing an island.


btw do we need to even purchase one? im sure theres an uninhabited one out there somewhere! we just have to go and tame the wild beasts
I've already said that :p
But we can get rid of all the beasts instead..
Or employ them to make chocolate..
Reply

Re.TiReD
05-14-2007, 12:36 PM
lol this is gettin so of topic...the mods are so gonna shoot me :X (us) lol :w:
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-14-2007, 12:38 PM
Originally Posted by Musaafir
Or employ them to make chocolate..
ok now your just thinking disney ;D


but i guess its halal to kill wild animals anyway.
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mohammed farah
05-14-2007, 12:40 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
have porridge :D
:-\
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Re.TiReD
05-14-2007, 12:43 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
ok now your just thinking disney ;D


but i guess its halal to kill wild animals anyway.
from chocolate, to disney, from islands to wild animals.....yeh YOU'RE IN FOR IT TOO! lol
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Umu 'Isa
05-15-2007, 06:43 AM
This is HORRIBLE :'(

I just bought a whole packet of mini twix too :cry:
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vpb
05-15-2007, 06:47 AM
:sl:

inshaAllah 'Ulker' will start exporting more products in the world. so we stay on the safe side.
Reply

vpb
05-15-2007, 06:49 AM
:sl:

btw, Musaafir you could have put 'twix' on the thread title too, cuz it looks like the thread has something to do with planet MARS :p
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Musaafirah
05-15-2007, 09:43 AM
LOL..I'm sorry, but that was the title given to it by the BBC..
But I guess you know what the thread is about now right? :p
Well, you know coz it says anything that expires before October is edible right? I already bought packets of Mars and Maltesers before I knew of this and unfortunately they expire in december..:muddlehea
The new ingredient that's being added is whey powder and I went on GMWA foodguide and this was the answer to my search:
Question
Date: 31/08/2003

Could you please tell me if Whey is derived from animal? Is is Haram? I have noticed that any products with Whey does not say "suitable for Vegetarians". What about cheeses? I have heard that most cheeses are from Rennet. Could you please explain what that is and tell me which cheeses I should avoid? Especially French cheeses like camembert, goat cheese...


Answer

Answered: 31/08/2003
Last Updated: 31/08/2003

A.
Checked and authorised as correct by Hadhrat Maulana Mufti Abdullah Sahib on:16 June 2003

Assalamooalaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh
Respected SisterBrother

We would like to thank you for the great confidence you place in us, and we implore Allah Almighty to help us all to serve His cause and render our work for His Sake. Hereunder is the response to your query subject to disclaimer:

Read the following article carefully taken from the Muslim Food Guide by Mufti Yusuf Sacha and Please be advised that this is the view according to the Hanaafi Madh-hab:

Rennet is an enzyme used in the food industry for the preparation of cheese by curdling milk. Rennet extracted from the stomach of a calf or animal whose meat is Halaal (lawful) after slaughtering in accordance with Islamic Thabh is unanimously Halaal (permissible) for consumption. If the above mentioned animals were not slaughtered in accordance with Islamic law then the Honourable Saahibayn of the Hanafi Legal School, Imam Abu Yusuf and Imam Muhammad, hold the view that the rennet itself is Halaal but its consumption would be Haraam (unlawful) because of its contamination with impure moisture etc. found in the stomach of the animal. According to them, rennet is fluid or viscous [running] and because of the penetration and saturation of impure moisture it would be impossible to purify it, therefore such rennet would remain Haraam.

However, Imaam Abu Hanifah does not regard the moisture found in the stomach of the above mentioned animals to be impure. Therefore the rennet obtained from them is Halaal, according to him.

The permissibility of rennet, therefore, is not really dependent on the slaughterer being Muslim or non-Muslim but upon whether there is life in rennet or not, and whether it absorbs the impurities found in the stomach of a newly born slaughtered calf. This is the outcome of the difference between Imaam Abu Hanifah and his two students, the Saahibayn,

Because of this difference in the opinion of the school, the Fatwa (legal opinion) allows a person to consume rennet (in the form of cheese etc.). Whilst Taqwa (piety) desires abstinence.

Allah Knows Best.

Further clarification and authentification.

1) In a commentary of the hadith text, Mishqatul Masaabeeh, by the famous Hanafi, scholar, Ali Qaari, Mirqaat, volume 8, page 193, is mentioned in the Kitaabul A’timah, Fasl Thaani.

Ibn Umar, radhiallahu anhu, narrates that our Rasul, sallallahu alayhi wasallam, was given a piece of Jubnah [Cheese] in Tabuk; he called for a knife, praying the tasmiyya he cut it [and ate it] narrated by Abu Dawud.

In the commentary, is mentioned; in this is proof of the purity of anfahah, because if it was impure then the cheese itself would be impure for it cannot be made without it [anfahah].

Again In this commentary in volume 2, page 79/80 is mentioned, in Bab Mash alal Khufayn, Fasl Awwal.

Tabraani narrates with a good sanad, although Ghareeb, that in one of the ghazawah, cheese was brought to Nabi sallallahu alayhi wasallam; He asked where it was made? Someone replied in Persia or in the lands of the Majus. Place the knife on it [cut it] and eat it. Someone said; O Rasulullah, we fear it may be carrion [Maitah]. He replied pray the tasmiyyah and eat it. Tirmidhi has mentioned a hadith wherein the Prophet was given a pair of leather socks and he wore them, without knowing whether they were pure or not. In the hadith of Salmaan, our Rasul was questioned regarding Jubn [cheese], Simn [clarifed butter] and Faraa’e [leather] together with the fact that it was taken from the lands of the Majus. It was mentioned to Umar regarding Jubn [cheese] and said to him that the rennet of dead animals are put in it [cheese]. He replied pray the tasmiyyah and eat it. Imam Ahmad mentions that this is the most sound hadith regarding cheese manufactured by Majus.

From the above commentaries it is evident that if rennet is derived from an animal that is permissible to eat, despite how it is slaughtered, it is Halaal to eat such cheese, despite the method used in the making of cheese.The rennet formed by the milk drunk by a newly born calf, which is then slaughtered and taken from its stomach is somewhat solid and has the effect of solidifying liquid milk and transforming it into cheese. Its permissibility though seemingly irrational because what is within the womb and stomach is under the law of impurity but the permissibility of cheese is established by Nass [Sharii proof] and agreed, therefore rennet is pure and permissible Fatwa Mazahir Ulum Volume 1 page 110.

2) Mufti Taqi’ Uthmaani, mentions that the ruling of Hadhraat Saahibayn is more cautious whilst that of Imaam Abu Hanifah is extensive or accommodating. If a pious person refrains it is better, whilst if a person is consuming cheese do not stop him. However, the rennet derived from the stomach of a pig is Haraam and Impure, provided its original property and chemical makeup does not undergo any drastic change.

Vegetarian or synthetic rennet, if nothing impure has been added to it will be Halaal. The cheese sold in supermarkets and shops, if it is vegetarian or derived from animals slaughtered Islamically is permissible to consume. On the other hand if it is pig rennet used in the cheese, without transformation then this is not permissible. Lastly, the rennet in cheese from animals other than pig is permissible, but abstention is desirable.

Bahr al-Raa’iq Volume 1 page 112/3

Register of the Fatawa Darul Ulum Karachi Number 175 23A Dated 11/3/ 1415

We quoted the actual Fatwa (legal verdict) regarding rennet used in cheese, by Mufti Nizamuddin Sahab in the MFG, and the following points from it are noteworthy.

3) 3.1) According to Imaam Abu Hanifah the rennet of Halaal (permissible) animals which have not been slaughtered according to Islamic law is Ja’iz (permissible for consumption). Thus the animal which has been slaughtered by a non-Muslim is also one which has not been slaughtered according to Islamic law and therefore the rennet extracted from such an animal is Ja’iz.

The reason being that the lawfulness of rennet does not depend upon the slaughterer being a Muslim or non-Muslim, in fact it depends upon whether there is life in it or not. If there is no life in rennet then death cannot occur because life and death are opposites. The circulation of blood in an organ is the cause of life. No blood flows through rennet therefore rennet is not a living organism. To consume and use rennet is permissible. The Honourable Saahibayn’s difference in opinion in this is connected to the fact that rennet is situated in close proximity to impure substances contained in the stomach of the animal irrespective of whether the rennet from the animal was extracted and slaughtered by a Muslim or a non-Muslim.

3.2) If it is known with certainty that rennet is obtained from liquid substance extracted from pigs then such rennet is absolutely Haraam.

3.3) The rennet obtained from an animal slaughtered by a non-Muslim or Muslim in accordance with Islamic law or contrary to it, is in all cases Ja’iz as long as the animal in question is not a pig. This is the opinion of Imaam Abu Hanifah. According to the Saahibayn it is Impure.

3.4) Rennet extracted from plants is Halaal.

What is Whey?

During cheese making, a coagulum is formed by clotting milk with rennet. When the coagulum is cut, a watery liquid known as whey is released and drained off leaving the curd to be salted and further processed into cheese. Whey contains water, fat, protein, lactose, minerals and lactic acid. Cream, butter, cheese, drinks, syrups and powder are some of the products made from whey. Whey will come under the same rule as rennet because it is a by-product which appears during the process of cheese making.

Hmm..:?
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Sister_6038
05-15-2007, 10:04 AM
there go the Mr T ads...*flushes and watches as a small gold drenched figure disappears down the bowl*
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IbnAbdulHakim
05-15-2007, 01:00 PM
hey sis, whats that article trying to say? :eek: ?

However, Imaam Abu Hanifah does not regard the moisture found in the stomach of the above mentioned animals to be impure. Therefore the rennet obtained from them is Halaal, according to him.
i didnt read the whole article but is it halal? :D
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Musaafirah
05-15-2007, 01:52 PM
Well, according to Imam Abu hanifah it is, regardless of origin..but according to other scholars it's only halaal according to the origin..and whether or not the animal was sacrificed according to the Shariah method..
As I follow the Hanafi Madhab I guess it's Halaal for me, but am not sure if this is the case of whether or not it's better to stay away from doubtful things?
Hope I haven't confused you..nah actually I've jus gone and confuzzled myself instead..
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IbnAbdulHakim
05-15-2007, 01:54 PM
^ im going to avoid it :heated:
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abu abdurrahman
05-15-2007, 02:08 PM
:enough!:

This is not good man,

If it is indeed true, then brothers and sisters need to be informed.

JazakaAllah khair for the bro who posted it.


Better go down to the Cash & Carry and stock up the pre-haram dated ones if you are gonna be THAT affected....


But if you could, which one would you have??!!:?
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seeker_of_ilm
05-16-2007, 09:29 AM
:sl:

When I found out about this, I went to the shop, and stocked up on a shedload of chocolates....dated before October. I'm now running a black market....

But seriously, its all the good chocolates going.
Reply

Musaafirah
05-17-2007, 11:42 AM
Originally Posted by seeker_of_ilm
:sl:

When I found out about this, I went to the shop, and stocked up on a shedload of chocolates....dated before October. I'm now running a black market....

But seriously, its all the good chocolates going.
Tell me about it..Galaxy is made from calf rennet! :'( What am I to do?
Maybe I shoyld jus quite my degree and go into making chocolates..that are HALAAL!
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Woodrow
05-17-2007, 11:54 AM
There is plenty of room for genuine Halal businesses to start in the Western World. This is an area where Muslim entrepreneurs need to concentrate. There is plenty of Muslim investors, putting their money into high profit haraam products and ignoring that they can provide a needed service and make a fair halal profit.

We can not expect non-Muslim investors to take the initiative to gain on the Islamic Market, but it seems that our own Brothers and Sisters should see that it is time to put their money where their moth is and stop complaining about the haraam food in the West, when they do have the power to do something about it.
Reply

...
05-17-2007, 11:55 AM
But is the rennet taken from the calf while its alive or dead? because if the calf is alive then i think its ok...

And some time ago we were checking and we found that the choccies made for the UK are halal, but those made to be exported are not..
Reply

Musaafirah
05-17-2007, 11:56 AM
Bro, I'm no entrerprenaur, am merely a student, and addicted to chocolate..
what can I do about the matter? On some other websites, people are doing petitions for the banning of animal products in chocolate, but then the majority of them are students..what is it that we can do?
and sis^^ I've checked on foodguide.org.uk, it says that the chocs are halaal even though they contain calf rennet. But it says it's praiseworthy to keep away from them
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vpb
05-17-2007, 12:01 PM
:sl:

Bro, I'm no entrerprenaur, am merely a student, and addicted to chocolate..
what can I do about the matter? On some other websites, people are doing petitions for the banning of animal products in chocolate, but then the majority of them are students..what is it that we can do?
and sis^^ I've checked on foodguide.org.uk, it says that the chocs are halaal even though they contain calf rennet. But it says it's praiseworthy to keep away from them
get choocolate cake, that should be safe I think.
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-17-2007, 12:03 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
There is plenty of room for genuine Halal businesses to start in the Western World. This is an area where Muslim entrepreneurs need to concentrate. There is plenty of Muslim investors, putting their money into high profit haraam products and ignoring that they can provide a needed service and make a fair halal profit..
hmm... halaal chocolate... theres 6 brothers in our family all intelligent earning well... hmm... al-rashid chocolate... :exhausted
Reply

Woodrow
05-17-2007, 12:07 PM
Originally Posted by Rose_Ice
But is the rennet taken from the calf while its alive or dead? because if the calf is alive then i think its ok...

And some time ago we were checking and we found that the choccies made for the UK are halal, but those made to be exported are not..
:w:

You must be a city girl. Rennet is taken from the stomach lining of a dead calf.

Production of natural calf rennet

Natural rennet is produced in the inner mucosa of the fourth stomach chamber (the abomasum) of young ruminants. These stomachs are a by-product of veal production.

[edit] Traditional method

Today this method is only used by traditional cheese-makers in central Europe, e.g. in Switzerland, Jura in France, or Alp-Sennereien in Austria.

Dried and cleaned stomachs of young calves are sliced into small pieces and then put into saltwater, together with some vinegar or wine to get a lower pH. After some time – overnight or several days - this solution has to be filtered. This crude rennet can then be used for coagulation of the milk. 1 gram of this solution should then coagulate 2000 to 4000 grams of milk.

[edit] Modern method

Deep-frozen stomachs are milled and put into an extracting solution – in this solution the enzymes are extracted. The crude rennet extract is then activated by adding acid – the enzymes in the stomach are produced in an inactive pre-form and are activated by the stomach acid. After neutralisation of the acid, the rennet extract is filtered in several stages and concentrated until reaching the required potency - e.g. 1:15,000 (1 kg of rennet would have the ability to coagulate 15,000 litres of milk).

1 kg of rennet extract contains about 0.7 grams of active enzymes and no other organic material – the rest is water and salt and sometimes some sodium benzoate, E211, 0.5% - 1% for preservation. 1 kg of cheese contains about 0.0003 grams of rennet enzymes.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rennet



Sadly there are plenty of vegetable alternatives that will serve the same purpose. All it will take is for some investor that desires to help his Brother's and Sister's faster than lining his own pockets.
Reply

NobleMuslimUK
05-17-2007, 04:24 PM
:sl:
Matserfoods should be ashamed of themselves, they will see sense when their business is in decline InshAllah.
Does the same apply to mars and snickers bought from Saudi and UAE?
Reply

Woodrow
05-17-2007, 04:46 PM
Originally Posted by NobleMuslimUK
:sl:
Matserfoods should be ashamed of themselves, they will see sense when their business is in decline InshAllah.
Does the same apply to mars and snickers bought from Saudi and UAE?
I would believe that the chocolate from those countries would be halal as neither country allows haraam food within them and as they are produced in those countries, local ingredients would be used.

the beauty of international companies you can not tell much about and individual product until you know what country it was made in.
Reply

mohammed farah
05-17-2007, 05:05 PM
you guys i think its only affecting uk chocolate
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mohammed farah
05-17-2007, 05:08 PM
read this....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twix

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snickers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Bar
Reply

Abu yahya
05-17-2007, 06:56 PM
:sl:

when I told the bro's from college bout this a riot almost broke out, lol.

btw i read in guardian that if you go on the official site of vegetarian society they've got masterfoods customer complaint number on there and theyre trying to get loads of ppl to ring in and complain, dunno if it'll make a diference but if your bored....

It's a sad day for us all......
Reply

NobleMuslimUK
05-17-2007, 10:19 PM
:sl:
I have good news, the ulama have released a fatwa that its ok to eat these products.
Reply

Talibatul Ilm
05-18-2007, 05:24 AM
Originally Posted by NobleMuslimUK
:sl:
I have good news, the ulama have released a fatwa that its ok to eat these products.
can we see the fatwa? or can u explain why they said that
Reply

NobleMuslimUK
05-18-2007, 11:37 AM
:sl:
Here is the fatwa, Inshallah I hope this helps...
Animal rennet Halaal?
Views: 122618 Last Updated: 31/08/2003

Question
Date: 31/08/2003

Could you please tell me if Whey is derived from animal? Is is Haram? I have noticed that any products with Whey does not say "suitable for Vegetarians". What about cheeses? I have heard that most cheeses are from Rennet. Could you please explain what that is and tell me which cheeses I should avoid? Especially French cheeses like camembert, goat cheese...

Answer
Answered: 31/08/2003
Last Updated: 31/08/2003

A.
Checked and authorised as correct by Hadhrat Maulana Mufti Abdullah Sahib on:16 June 2003

Assalamooalaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh
Respected SisterBrother

We would like to thank you for the great confidence you place in us, and we implore Allah Almighty to help us all to serve His cause and render our work for His Sake. Hereunder is the response to your query subject to disclaimer:

Read the following article carefully taken from the Muslim Food Guide by Mufti Yusuf Sacha and Please be advised that this is the view according to the Hanaafi Madh-hab:

Rennet is an enzyme used in the food industry for the preparation of cheese by curdling milk. Rennet extracted from the stomach of a calf or animal whose meat is Halaal (lawful) after slaughtering in accordance with Islamic Thabh is unanimously Halaal (permissible) for consumption. If the above mentioned animals were not slaughtered in accordance with Islamic law then the Honourable Saahibayn of the Hanafi Legal School, Imam Abu Yusuf and Imam Muhammad, hold the view that the rennet itself is Halaal but its consumption would be Haraam (unlawful) because of its contamination with impure moisture etc. found in the stomach of the animal. According to them, rennet is fluid or viscous [running] and because of the penetration and saturation of impure moisture it would be impossible to purify it, therefore such rennet would remain Haraam.

However, Imaam Abu Hanifah does not regard the moisture found in the stomach of the above mentioned animals to be impure. Therefore the rennet obtained from them is Halaal, according to him.

The permissibility of rennet, therefore, is not really dependent on the slaughterer being Muslim or non-Muslim but upon whether there is life in rennet or not, and whether it absorbs the impurities found in the stomach of a newly born slaughtered calf. This is the outcome of the difference between Imaam Abu Hanifah and his two students, the Saahibayn,

Because of this difference in the opinion of the school, the Fatwa (legal opinion) allows a person to consume rennet (in the form of cheese etc.). Whilst Taqwa (piety) desires abstinence.

Allah Knows Best.

Further clarification and authentification.

1) In a commentary of the hadith text, Mishqatul Masaabeeh, by the famous Hanafi, scholar, Ali Qaari, Mirqaat, volume 8, page 193, is mentioned in the Kitaabul A’timah, Fasl Thaani.

Ibn Umar, radhiallahu anhu, narrates that our Rasul, sallallahu alayhi wasallam, was given a piece of Jubnah [Cheese] in Tabuk; he called for a knife, praying the tasmiyya he cut it [and ate it] narrated by Abu Dawud.

In the commentary, is mentioned; in this is proof of the purity of anfahah, because if it was impure then the cheese itself would be impure for it cannot be made without it [anfahah].

Again In this commentary in volume 2, page 79/80 is mentioned, in Bab Mash alal Khufayn, Fasl Awwal.

Tabraani narrates with a good sanad, although Ghareeb, that in one of the ghazawah, cheese was brought to Nabi sallallahu alayhi wasallam; He asked where it was made? Someone replied in Persia or in the lands of the Majus. Place the knife on it [cut it] and eat it. Someone said; O Rasulullah, we fear it may be carrion [Maitah]. He replied pray the tasmiyyah and eat it. Tirmidhi has mentioned a hadith wherein the Prophet was given a pair of leather socks and he wore them, without knowing whether they were pure or not. In the hadith of Salmaan, our Rasul was questioned regarding Jubn [cheese], Simn [clarifed butter] and Faraa’e [leather] together with the fact that it was taken from the lands of the Majus. It was mentioned to Umar regarding Jubn [cheese] and said to him that the rennet of dead animals are put in it [cheese]. He replied pray the tasmiyyah and eat it. Imam Ahmad mentions that this is the most sound hadith regarding cheese manufactured by Majus.

From the above commentaries it is evident that if rennet is derived from an animal that is permissible to eat, despite how it is slaughtered, it is Halaal to eat such cheese, despite the method used in the making of cheese.The rennet formed by the milk drunk by a newly born calf, which is then slaughtered and taken from its stomach is somewhat solid and has the effect of solidifying liquid milk and transforming it into cheese. Its permissibility though seemingly irrational because what is within the womb and stomach is under the law of impurity but the permissibility of cheese is established by Nass [Sharii proof] and agreed, therefore rennet is pure and permissible Fatwa Mazahir Ulum Volume 1 page 110.

2) Mufti Taqi’ Uthmaani, mentions that the ruling of Hadhraat Saahibayn is more cautious whilst that of Imaam Abu Hanifah is extensive or accommodating. If a pious person refrains it is better, whilst if a person is consuming cheese do not stop him. However, the rennet derived from the stomach of a pig is Haraam and Impure, provided its original property and chemical makeup does not undergo any drastic change.

Vegetarian or synthetic rennet, if nothing impure has been added to it will be Halaal. The cheese sold in supermarkets and shops, if it is vegetarian or derived from animals slaughtered Islamically is permissible to consume. On the other hand if it is pig rennet used in the cheese, without transformation then this is not permissible. Lastly, the rennet in cheese from animals other than pig is permissible, but abstention is desirable.

Bahr al-Raa’iq Volume 1 page 112/3

Register of the Fatawa Darul Ulum Karachi Number 175 23A Dated 11/3/ 1415

We quoted the actual Fatwa (legal verdict) regarding rennet used in cheese, by Mufti Nizamuddin Sahab in the MFG, and the following points from it are noteworthy.

3) 3.1) According to Imaam Abu Hanifah the rennet of Halaal (permissible) animals which have not been slaughtered according to Islamic law is Ja’iz (permissible for consumption). Thus the animal which has been slaughtered by a non-Muslim is also one which has not been slaughtered according to Islamic law and therefore the rennet extracted from such an animal is Ja’iz.

The reason being that the lawfulness of rennet does not depend upon the slaughterer being a Muslim or non-Muslim, in fact it depends upon whether there is life in it or not. If there is no life in rennet then death cannot occur because life and death are opposites. The circulation of blood in an organ is the cause of life. No blood flows through rennet therefore rennet is not a living organism. To consume and use rennet is permissible. The Honourable Saahibayn’s difference in opinion in this is connected to the fact that rennet is situated in close proximity to impure substances contained in the stomach of the animal irrespective of whether the rennet from the animal was extracted and slaughtered by a Muslim or a non-Muslim.

3.2) If it is known with certainty that rennet is obtained from liquid substance extracted from pigs then such rennet is absolutely Haraam.

3.3) The rennet obtained from an animal slaughtered by a non-Muslim or Muslim in accordance with Islamic law or contrary to it, is in all cases Ja’iz as long as the animal in question is not a pig. This is the opinion of Imaam Abu Hanifah. According to the Saahibayn it is Impure.

3.4) Rennet extracted from plants is Halaal.

What is Whey?

During cheese making, a coagulum is formed by clotting milk with rennet. When the coagulum is cut, a watery liquid known as whey is released and drained off leaving the curd to be salted and further processed into cheese. Whey contains water, fat, protein, lactose, minerals and lactic acid. Cream, butter, cheese, drinks, syrups and powder are some of the products made from whey. Whey will come under the same rule as rennet because it is a by-product which appears during the process of cheese making.
Reply

Sister_6038
05-18-2007, 11:39 AM
how about if we all grow our cocoa...and just like make our own chocolate...
Reply

mohammed farah
05-18-2007, 11:41 AM
Originally Posted by Hatshepsut
how about if we all grow our cocoa...and just like make our own chocolate...

Your hired........now start making some chocolate for us...........please:)
Reply

Musaafirah
05-21-2007, 09:56 AM
Good news folks!
Mars bars get veggie status back

The move affected Masterfoods' chocolate and ice cream bars
Mars has abandoned plans to use animal products in its chocolate, and has apologised to "upset" vegetarians.
The firm had said it would change the whey used in some of its products from a vegetarian source to one with traces of the animal enzyme, rennet.

The Vegetarian Society organised a campaign against the move, asking members to voice their concerns to parent company Masterfoods.

Mars said it became "very clear, very quickly" that it had made a mistake.

In just one week, more than 6,000 people bombarded the company, which produces the Mars, Snickers, Maltesers and Galaxy brands, with phone and e-mail complaints.

Forty MPs also signed a petition to voice their opposition.

Fiona Dawson, managing director of Mars UK, said the company had listened to customers and decided to reverse its decision.


"The consumer is our boss and we had lots of feedback from consumers who were unhappy about the change," Ms Dawson said.

"It became very clear, very quickly that we had made a mistake, for which I am sorry.

"There are three million vegetarians in the UK and not only did we disappoint them, but we upset a lot of the consumers."

'Principled decision'

The Vegetarian Society had called the move by Mars "incomprehensible" and "a backward step" at a time when consumers were increasingly concerned about "the provenance of their food".



Mars replied that, by admitting its products were no longer suitable for "extremely strict vegetarians", it was making a "principled decision".

Now it insists it will begin changing its recipes back immediately.

Dr Annette Pinner, chief executive of the Vegetarian Society, said she was pleased Mars had been "honest enough" to admit it had "made a mistake".

"A Masterfoods representative has made contact with us and we are very pleased that they now recognise the importance of integrity to all their customers, especially vegetarians," she added.

Rennet is extracted from calves' stomachs and was to have been used in the ice cream versions of all Masterfoods' bars too.
Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6673549.stm

Oh, you can't believe how happy I am! :D
(by the way, how do I type source, where you guys can jus click it, instead of seeing the separate URL? :?)
Reply

Abu yahya
05-21-2007, 10:05 AM
Phew...that's good news.
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-21-2007, 01:02 PM
yes but theres doubt as to wether they will hide the animal stuff used or not.


they'd beter not hide it!
Reply

Musaafirah
05-21-2007, 09:50 PM
What about trading standards and the like? Surely, they can't lie to the consumers can they?
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-21-2007, 09:54 PM
Originally Posted by Musaafir
What about trading standards and the like? Surely, they can't lie to the consumers can they?
zanina, although im sure its been done in the past
Reply

Musaafirah
05-21-2007, 10:28 PM
Accha theek ase...but surely, if something is amiss, they'll have HELL to pay...(well, alot)
Reply

Re.TiReD
05-23-2007, 01:27 PM
:sl: we should still all be careful ppz...coz the old (haram) stock is still gonna be on the shelves for some time so we gonna hafta wait abit...SABR!...as a certain bro mustve said to me bout 10 times on the forums :D hehe
Reply

Re.TiReD
05-23-2007, 01:28 PM
Originally Posted by Musaafir
Accha theek ase...
yeah sis....hey you speak better bengali than me!! muahaha! :okay: kiddin
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-23-2007, 04:05 PM
Originally Posted by *UmmQalam*
yeah sis....hey you speak better bengali than me!! muahaha! :okay: kiddin
she said "theek ase" which sounds like, his kinda THICK (as in stupid)

teek ase sounds better lol
Reply

Musaafirah
05-24-2007, 05:28 AM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
she said "theek ase" which sounds like, his kinda THICK (as in stupid)

teek ase sounds better lol
Whatever..I like writing it theek ase, coz of the ways I've diffrentiated the 't' letters in Bengali , But then bro if you wanna think that you're thick then that's your business..:p
Sis Umm Qalam..I AM a Bengali lol!
Yeah, I will try to be as patient as possible..Do you know I think it's been nearly a WEEK since I last had a chocolate bar..now I call that self discipline!
I bet you guys are all proud of me now :statisfie ( < seriously that emoticon jus looks so odd..:muddlehea, I like this one better)
Reply

Re.TiReD
05-24-2007, 11:50 AM
Originally Posted by Musaafir
Whatever..I like writing it theek ase, coz of the ways I've diffrentiated the 't' letters in Bengali , But then bro if you wanna think that you're thick then that's your business..:p
Sis Umm Qalam..I AM a Bengali lol!
)
lol yeh I kow you're bengali :D and yeh..I'd spell it theek aswell so hehe :okay:
Reply

IceQueen~
05-24-2007, 11:52 AM
hey has anyone heard the latest? that Mars have changed their minds now since too many people complained? so they're going to stick to vegetarian...?
Reply

Re.TiReD
05-24-2007, 11:54 AM
yup sis :D they shuda known it wasnt the cleverest thing to do...lol :D
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-24-2007, 01:25 PM
Originally Posted by *UmmQalam*
lol yeh I kow you're bengali :D and yeh..I'd spell it theek aswell so hehe :okay:
see this goes to show its not the proper bengali way to spell it loll
Reply

Re.TiReD
05-24-2007, 01:30 PM
naaaaaa! it just goes to show some ppz dunno how to spell propa.....
hmmm............You..lol

its not...Teek....the 'T' has abit of stress on it to make it 'theek' does it not? hehe
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-24-2007, 01:32 PM
i normally pronounce it with a strong T :D and im sure sis musaafir does to lol
Reply

Musaafirah
05-24-2007, 01:34 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
i normally pronounce it with a strong T :D and im sure sis musaafir does to lol
Indeed, I jus like writing it that way..
(I still haven't had any chocolate..not even hot chocolate! :muddlehea)
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-24-2007, 01:35 PM
whats wrong with hot chocolate? :eek:
Reply

Re.TiReD
05-24-2007, 01:35 PM
So? Jus got I got a different accent dont make me any less bengali ya know! :D its prob just the North n South difference we have....am bettin Musaafir's from down souf too! lol OT...sorry! maaf! :X
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-24-2007, 01:36 PM
Edit

(whos from america then :S)
Reply

Re.TiReD
05-24-2007, 01:36 PM
Originally Posted by Musaafir
Indeed, I jus like writing it that way..
(I still haven't had any chocolate..not even hot chocolate! :muddlehea)
ahhhh! A white Choccochino........sheer bliss! :D just had one with lunch! hehehe
Reply

Musaafirah
05-24-2007, 01:37 PM
Lol..am from south of England, as for place in BD it's Nabiganj..dunno whether its south lol!
I'm jus saying that I haven't had choc in any form!
Reply

Re.TiReD
05-24-2007, 01:38 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
musaafirs from america, so your completely wrong again lol

;D
oh man! shoot me now! lol well anyway...erm....yeah....chocolate, they bad for ya teeth dint ya know :blind: hehe

ima just go participate in the BANGALI thread! :w: :D
Reply

Musaafirah
05-24-2007, 01:38 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
musaafirs from america, so your completely wrong again lol

;D
Amreeka? Since when? :?
and Umm Qalam..stop rubbin it in..:raging: It's SELF DISCIPLINE I TELL THEE!
Reply

Re.TiReD
05-24-2007, 01:40 PM
Originally Posted by Musaafir
Lol..am from south of England, as for place in BD it's Nabiganj..dunno whether its south lol!
I'm jus saying that I haven't had choc in any form!
oh so I WAS right! :rollseyes lol good on ya sis :) but why? its good for ya once in a while dint ya know? :okay:
Reply

Musaafirah
05-24-2007, 01:41 PM
Of course I know..I have at least 3 a day....but am trying to cut down!
Reply

Re.TiReD
05-24-2007, 01:41 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
Edit

(whos from america then :S)
George Bush

Originally Posted by Musaafir
Amreeka? Since when? :?
and Umm Qalam..stop rubbin it in..:raging: It's SELF DISCIPLINE I TELL THEE!
stop rubbing what in?????????????? :offended:
Reply

Re.TiReD
05-24-2007, 01:42 PM
Originally Posted by Musaafir
Of course I know..I have at least 3 a day....but am trying to cut down!
ahhh .... teek, good luck then :D I have one a week, lol
Reply

Musaafirah
05-24-2007, 01:43 PM
Originally Posted by *UmmQalam*
George Bush



stop rubbing what in?????????????? :offended:
The fact that you had a choco watever..it's still chocolate :(
Reply

al-hasan
05-24-2007, 01:44 PM
:sl:
Didn't Mars apologised and said they will not use it anymore?
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-24-2007, 01:45 PM
Originally Posted by al-hasan
:sl:
Didn't Mars apologised and said they will not use it anymore?
yeah lol but it could be a big fat lie :D
Reply

Musaafirah
05-24-2007, 01:45 PM
Originally Posted by al-hasan
:sl:
Didn't Mars apologised and said they will not use it anymore?
Yes, I've put that post in..
Maybe a mod can change the title? Sowwie for the confusion!
Reply

Re.TiReD
05-24-2007, 01:46 PM
The fact that you had a choco watever..it's still chocolate
lol yeah it was a white hot chocolate...usin white choc, and before that I had another chocolate thing but dunno what it was called, and did you know....in a fundraiser a few weeks ago I arranged to have a choclate fountain? all that delicious, creamy chocolate cascading down, dipped in rich, red stawberries and halal marshamallows....! MMMMMMM!

Woops! sorry, am I rubbing it in?? hehe :D :okay:
Reply

Re.TiReD
05-24-2007, 01:48 PM
Originally Posted by al-hasan
:sl:
Didn't Mars apologised and said they will not use it anymore?
yeah..mars dint apologise..masterfoods did...no reason why we shouldnt believe it, just be wary in future...am still up for the island tho :D
Reply

Gangster No.1
05-24-2007, 01:52 PM
this thread should be closed now...........

the matter is resolved now, thats why!

dont bother start posting more and more, this topic is Out!:D

:w:
Reply

Re.TiReD
05-24-2007, 01:55 PM
lol bro...you should be a mod....respekt! :w:
Reply

Gangster No.1
05-24-2007, 02:08 PM
Originally Posted by *UmmQalam*
lol bro...you should be a mod....respekt! :w:
How do i become a mod.lol

are you allowed to become a mod?:D
Reply

Re.TiReD
05-24-2007, 02:10 PM
How do i become a mod.lol
ask a mod :D

are you allowed to become a mod?
nah I'M not....I'm nowhere near sensible enough, hehe
Reply

Gangster No.1
05-24-2007, 02:42 PM
nah i know i wont be alllowed,

they'll probally say no terrorists allowed.

lol, joke
Reply

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