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islamirama
05-15-2007, 12:56 AM
FRONTLINE
http://www.pbs.org/frontline/

- This Week: "Spying on the Home Front" (60 minutes),
Tuesday, May 15, 2007 at 10.00 pm (kvie channel 6) on PBS
- Live Discussion: Chat with correspondent Hedrick Smith, Wed., May 16, at 11 am ET

After 9/11 former Attorney General John Ashcroft says President Bush told him, "Never let this happen again." Ashcroft tells FRONTLINE how he interpreted the president's injunction, "Now not letting something happen is different from proving something happened. The old business of the Justice Department to be able to prosecute the criminal and declare victory is not good enough when you lose 3,000 people and the criminals purposefully extinguish themselves in the perpetration of the crime."

In "Spying on the Home Front" this Tuesday, correspondent Hedrick Smith and producer Rick Young investigate what the new 'prevention' paradigm means to civil liberties here at home. In one case, the FBI conducted a data sweep on 250,000 Las Vegas vacationers after receiving a non specific threat that Al Qaeda was interested in Vegas as a target.

In another case, a curious employee at AT&T in San Francisco learned that the whole flow of internet traffic in that office was being diverted to the National Security Agency which had installed a 'black box' in a super secret room. One expert says that it appears NASA set up these boxes in 10-15 AT&T sites across the country with the ability to intercept about 10 per cent of all internet traffic.

There's much more. The Government Accounting Office found 50 government agencies with nearly 200 data mining projects underway. In the age of the super computer, private companies are amassing vast amounts of data about all of us. From home mortgages to spending habits, virtual digital dossiers are being created every day. Correspondent Smith wonders what happens when the government does this kind of data mining, moving from our tradition of individualized suspicion, to checking out everybody to find who are the bad guys.

The former head of counter terrorism for the FBI, Larry Mefford, told FRONTLINE: "I can give you more security, but I've got to take away some rights. And so there's a balance." For a look at how the balance is being struck today, we hope you will be able to join us Tuesday, but if not, "Spying on the Home Front" will be up and streaming the day after broadcast on our Web site, where you'll also find more background on this story and the opportunity to express your opinion about the report at http://www.pbs.org/frontline/homefront/

Louis Wiley, Jr.
Executive Editor

This program will re-air at the following time(s):
Thursday, May. 17, 2007 at 2.30 am (kvie channel 6)
Thursday, May. 17, 2007 at 2.30 am (kvie channel 6)
Tuesday, May. 22, 2007 at 1.30 am (kvie channel 6)
Reply

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MTAFFI
05-17-2007, 02:05 PM
The way I see it, if you arent doing anything wrong, then what do you have to worry about. I am glad that our country is taking the threat of terrorism so seriously, maybe that why the fort dix guys were thwarted so easily, maybe it is why we havent had any other attacks on our soil since the war has been going on. I say keep spying, I dont care if the government know what my mortgage is or how much money I have in my bank or where I go on vacation, because once they see I am here for the good of my country and I love my country they wont waste their time with me or any other person who doesnt want to blow something up... Seems to me like the terrorists rights are being taken away
Reply

islamirama
05-17-2007, 02:29 PM
you're probably a certified and qualified domestic terrorist by law

Originally Posted by MTAFFI
The way I see it, if you arent doing anything wrong, then what do you have to worry about. I am glad that our country is taking the threat of terrorism so seriously, maybe that why the fort dix guys were thwarted so easily, maybe it is why we havent had any other attacks on our soil since the war has been going on. I say keep spying, I dont care if the government know what my mortgage is or how much money I have in my bank or where I go on vacation, because once they see I am here for the good of my country and I love my country they wont waste their time with me or any other person who doesnt want to blow something up... Seems to me like the terrorists rights are being taken away



You are the homegrown terrorist threat


By Michael Hampton

Posted: May 13, 2007 11:26 pm

Share this story: Digg del.icio.us reddit.com Newsvine
http://www.homelandstupidity.us/goog...se_script.html

If you’re an American reading this, then under expansive definitions being used by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and several states in their counterterrorism training, you just might be a domestic terrorist.

The FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force in Phoenix, Ariz., distributed a brochure (Images: 1, 2) to local law enforcement agencies a few years ago which defines terrorism as individuals or groups within the U.S. who engage in criminal activity to promote political or social changes. This is correct, as far as it goes, but the brochure then gives a listing of “suspicious” activities, telling law enforcement officers: “If you encounter any of the following, call the Joint Terrorism Task Force.”

Some of the things for which you should be reported as a suspected terrorist include the usual things, like weapons of mass destruction, and hate groups such as the Ku Klux Klan and Neo-Nazis, but also includes people who “Make numerous references to US Constitution,” “Claim driving is a right, not a privilege” and “Attempt to ‘police the police.’”

In addition, “People whose political motivation is usually Marxist/Leninist philosophy,” “‘defenders’ of the US Constitution against federal government and the UN,” computer hackers, and “Lone Individuals” should also be reported.

Do you fall under any of those categories? I certainly do; more than one, in fact. So I’m probably under suspicion somewhere as a domestic terrorist.

Last week, the state of Alabama Department of Homeland Security got scrutinized for an interactive terrorism awareness training section of its Web site, which said much the same things. The bureaucrats removed the entire training after it wound up on digg.com, a popular Web site where users can promote news to the site’s front page.

In Alabama, it seems, promoting gun rights can also get you branded a domestic terrorist.

Alabama’s site was based on a similar one from the state of Pennsylvania, which in addition to all of the above, says that promoting jury nullification, secession, or the belief that all governments must ultimately become corrupted by power also makes you a domestic terrorist worth watching.

But it gets worse.

But you see, I once read Unintended Consequences and was quite impressed with the book. Then one day I attended a FBI security briefing for technology security and was confronted with an image of the book — strongly implying those who own or read the book were terrorists.

But now I find I’m considered a terrorist by many other government agencies! Seriously, I wonder when I shall be arrested and “Detained.” . . .

The state of Virginia also says I’m a terrorist. (PDF) Why there? Because I’m a “property rights advocate.” Seriously, in Virginia, you’re a TERRORIST if you advocate for property rights. I think they’re going to need to build more jails to house us all. . . .

Incredibly, none of this is in jest. These various government agencies honestly believe *I* am a “domestic terrorist.” That is so sad. Indeed, this once-great country has nowhere to go but down. — Ogre’s Politics & Views
Ogre also put together a nice interactive quiz which you can use to determine if you are a domestic terrorist. I scored a 70, which apparently means there’s a cell with my name on it in Guantanamo Bay.

So in keeping with my mandate to make fun of government stupidity, I’m offering these web banners so you can identify yourself as a domestic terrorist on your own Myspace, blog or Web site. Just copy and paste the code for the one you want.

468×60 Banner



234×60 Half Banner



125×125



120×60



It’s clear that in every meaningful way, the government considers ordinary Americans the enemy; their actions speak it unmistakably. Proudly display your status as a Certified Domestic Terrorist!


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7 Trackbacks/Pingbacks


  1. LIBERTY: You are the homegrown terrorist threat « Reinke Faces Life
    May 14, 2007 12:05 pm

  2. Definition of a domestic terrorist | TechWag
    May 14, 2007 7:23 pm

  3. Too many topics, too little time. » You are the homegrown terrorist threat - Homeland Stupidity
    May 14, 2007 8:10 pm

  4. Ogre's Politics & Views
    May 14, 2007 8:46 pm

  5. Tony Yarusso’s Blog » Blog Archive » Apparently I’m a terrorist
    May 15, 2007 1:00 am

  6. Geek Bazaar » terrorizm quiz!
    May 15, 2007 11:02 am

  7. DJ Arkady Dot Com » Blog Archive » You are the homegrown terrorist threat
    May 15, 2007 12:25 pm
Reply

MTAFFI
05-17-2007, 02:34 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
you're probably a certified and qualified domestic terrorist by law
...
You can quote that garbage to me all day, and it could be right, either way I dont care. I love my country, I would never do anything to defame or harm it, anyone investigating me would know that. To be honest I dont know if I really fall under any of those categories anyways. So I say investigate away weed out the bad and leave the good peaceful people, I am not worried about it, are you?
Reply

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islamirama
05-17-2007, 03:08 PM
Originally Posted by MTAFFI
You can quote that garbage to me all day, and it could be right, either way I dont care. I love my country, I would never do anything to defame or harm it, anyone investigating me would know that. To be honest I dont know if I really fall under any of those categories anyways. So I say investigate away weed out the bad and leave the good peaceful people, I am not worried about it, are you?
Some of the things for which you should be reported as a suspected terrorist includes people who “Make numerous references to US Constitution,” “Claim driving is a right, not a privilege” and “Attempt to ‘police the police.’”

In addition, “People whose political motivation is usually Marxist/Leninist philosophy,” “‘defenders’ of the US Constitution against federal government and the UN,” computer hackers, and “Lone Individuals” should also be reported.


In Alabama, it seems, promoting gun rights can also get you branded a domestic terrorist.

Do you fall under any of those categories?

They can do all the investigations and harassing you all they want and will eventually let you go if you clean and got nothing to hide. But is all that worth it? How much of your civil liberties and rights will you give up for a false sense of "security", what a great way to turn a "democractic" society into a police state as some would say.

Why don't you take this quiz and see if you are a terrorists, as you said you got nothing to hide.

http://www.quizilla.com/score/displa...tem_id=4833864
Reply

MTAFFI
05-17-2007, 03:47 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
They can do all the investigations and harassing you all they want and will eventually let you go if you clean and got nothing to hide. But is all that worth it? How much of your civil liberties and rights will you give up for a false sense of "security", what a great way to turn a "democractic" society into a police state as some would say.

Why don't you take this quiz and see if you are a terrorists, as you said you got nothing to hide.

http://www.quizilla.com/score/displa...tem_id=4833864
What "rights" am I giving up? If civil liberties are a way of hiding a plot to attack a US then I dont need them, and about this false sense of security, lol, who ever said I had one? I feel as safe as anyone in the world today, there is no real safety, but I can say that I would rather have the government beef up it surveilence and methods of obtaining information than to just say "well I wouldnt want to watch anyone to close, because that would violate civil liberties". As for your quiz, I took it and I was 20%, and I am not a terrorist, however I guess I scared the creator of that quiz. The thing is most of those questions are not directed at Joe Blow walking down the street, it is directed at those who exhibit suspicious behaviour and it well should be. It isnt like the US government goes down that list and actually says "Well he plays paintball so he could be a terrorist", that is ridiculous, a certain type of person who exhibits certain behaviors would be questioned in this manner and be determined from there.

The thing is, a terrorist attack could happen again, there must be actions taken to prevent it, doing something is better than nothing. The only real protection the US has against an attack is information and the right to bear arms, both of which I love to use.
Reply

KAding
05-17-2007, 04:07 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
FRONTLINE
http://www.pbs.org/frontline/

- This Week: "Spying on the Home Front" (60 minutes),
Tuesday, May 15, 2007 at 10.00 pm (kvie channel 6) on PBS
- Live Discussion: Chat with correspondent Hedrick Smith, Wed., May 16, at 11 am ET

After 9/11 former Attorney General John Ashcroft says President Bush told him, "Never let this happen again." Ashcroft tells FRONTLINE how he interpreted the president's injunction, "Now not letting something happen is different from proving something happened. The old business of the Justice Department to be able to prosecute the criminal and declare victory is not good enough when you lose 3,000 people and the criminals purposefully extinguish themselves in the perpetration of the crime."

In "Spying on the Home Front" this Tuesday, correspondent Hedrick Smith and producer Rick Young investigate what the new 'prevention' paradigm means to civil liberties here at home. In one case, the FBI conducted a data sweep on 250,000 Las Vegas vacationers after receiving a non specific threat that Al Qaeda was interested in Vegas as a target.

In another case, a curious employee at AT&T in San Francisco learned that the whole flow of internet traffic in that office was being diverted to the National Security Agency which had installed a 'black box' in a super secret room. One expert says that it appears NASA set up these boxes in 10-15 AT&T sites across the country with the ability to intercept about 10 per cent of all internet traffic.

There's much more. The Government Accounting Office found 50 government agencies with nearly 200 data mining projects underway. In the age of the super computer, private companies are amassing vast amounts of data about all of us. From home mortgages to spending habits, virtual digital dossiers are being created every day. Correspondent Smith wonders what happens when the government does this kind of data mining, moving from our tradition of individualized suspicion, to checking out everybody to find who are the bad guys.

The former head of counter terrorism for the FBI, Larry Mefford, told FRONTLINE: "I can give you more security, but I've got to take away some rights. And so there's a balance." For a look at how the balance is being struck today, we hope you will be able to join us Tuesday, but if not, "Spying on the Home Front" will be up and streaming the day after broadcast on our Web site, where you'll also find more background on this story and the opportunity to express your opinion about the report at http://www.pbs.org/frontline/homefront/

Louis Wiley, Jr.
Executive Editor

This program will re-air at the following time(s):
Thursday, May. 17, 2007 at 2.30 am (kvie channel 6)
Thursday, May. 17, 2007 at 2.30 am (kvie channel 6)
Tuesday, May. 22, 2007 at 1.30 am (kvie channel 6)
I have to say I am hardly impressed. "Data sweeps" and "data mining" techniques are indeed impersonal, but I am not convinced they are much different from more 'traditional' law enforcement monitoring activities like police patrols or traffic speed checks. These are no different in that everyone is monitored and the suspicious activities are investigated. In fact, they are less dangerous especially because the monitoring is done by computers and not humans. Human law enforcement officers only come in at a later stage, when computers detect suspect patterns. The data sweeps merely indicate when to initiate an investigation, they are not in itself investigations.

Thats not to say that I believe this to be a desirable evolution, but it will be hard to keep it from happening. Law enforcement is weak on the internet, it is something they will want to try get a foothold on. While there should always be legal supervision IMHO, there are bigger civil liberties issues in the US even, let alone the rest of the world.
Reply

islamirama
05-17-2007, 04:10 PM
Seeing events turn in US and UK brings one movie to mind..

V for Vendetta


Makes one wonder, are things really what they seem at the surface?
Reply

MTAFFI
05-17-2007, 04:40 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
Seeing events turn in US and UK brings one movie to mind..

V for Vendetta


Makes one wonder, are things really what they seem at the surface?
^^ LOL LOL LOL Yes the events in the world around us seem somehow related to a hollywood tragedy that was "V for Vendetta"..LOL Yes you have quite a good grip on what goes on around you ..... lol .... If I were to pick a movie I think I would say maybe Shrek...lol.. no not really
Reply

Keltoi
05-18-2007, 01:51 PM
It is a fine line to walk between civil liberities and effective law enforcement. Of course the founding fathers never imagined the age we live in today, but it is the job of government to find a way to deal with this age of technology and unconventional threats while still remaining true to the intent of the Constitution.
Reply

Cognescenti
05-20-2007, 06:21 AM
Of course there has to be a "prevention pardigm". The ex post facto "criminal justice paradigm" didn't work on 9-11. I think it is fair to say none of the 19 mass murderers were too worried about paying their legal bills.

Notice also how Ashcraoft is the Boogeyman. I could be wrong, but I think he is gone from government.
Reply

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