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Chiteng
05-18-2007, 05:59 PM
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1076.cfm

This will allow over 200 million LEGAL immigrants over the next 18 years.

Just read that link.


Of course almost all of them will be Catholic, but *shrug*
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Keltoi
05-18-2007, 06:28 PM
It isn't a perfect bill, but it is probably the only way to deal with the situation. We have way too many illegal immigrants living in the U.S., and it isn't realistic to consider deporting them. Better to make them legal and at least have a better idea of who these people are and where they are.
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vpb
05-18-2007, 06:34 PM
It isn't a perfect bill, but it is probably the only way to deal with the situation. We have way too many illegal immigrants living in the U.S., and it isn't realistic to consider deporting them. Better to make them legal and at least have a better idea of who these people are and where they are.
It is hard for US to handle all ilegal immigrants , bc US has a very high population, and also is a mosaic of cultures, people meet there, so I don't blame the government if they can't handle completely the situation. It's just hard.
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Chiteng
05-18-2007, 07:49 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
It isn't a perfect bill, but it is probably the only way to deal with the situation. We have way too many illegal immigrants living in the U.S., and it isn't realistic to consider deporting them. Better to make them legal and at least have a better idea of who these people are and where they are.
And give away the country to a culture that was decadent 600 years ago.
Let alone now. Yes I can see why you would favor that.
But as I said, at least it will be Catholic. Roman Catholic.
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Keltoi
05-18-2007, 08:39 PM
Originally Posted by Chiteng
And give away the country to a culture that was decadent 600 years ago.
Let alone now. Yes I can see why you would favor that.
But as I said, at least it will be Catholic. Roman Catholic.
Are you talking about Mexican culture as being decadent? In any case its too late to worry about illegal immigrants getting here, as they are already millions and millions of them. At the very least we should know who and where they are.
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Woodrow
05-18-2007, 08:56 PM
Originally Posted by Chiteng
And give away the country to a culture that was decadent 600 years ago.
Let alone now. Yes I can see why you would favor that.
But as I said, at least it will be Catholic. Roman Catholic.
Interesting 600 years ago would be 1407, still pre-Colombian and before any European influence. I doubt enough of the early Amer-Ind History remains to determine if it was decadent or not.

We do know that the Algonquin tribes of the North East had established a stable form of government and lived in peace. The plainsmen were primarily hunters and Nomads, the North Pacific coast tribes may have established some trade with Muslim voyageurs.
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Keltoi
05-18-2007, 09:18 PM
Just for the sake of argument,(I'm not defending Chiteng's comments), if he is referring to pre-European Mexico he would be talking about the Aztec and the Maya, who did practice ritual sacrifice.
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Chiteng
05-18-2007, 09:21 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Are you talking about Mexican culture as being decadent? In any case its too late to worry about illegal immigrants getting here, as they are already millions and millions of them. At the very least we should know who and where they are.
No I am speaking of Spanish Culture.

And no, we could deport them all.
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Keltoi
05-18-2007, 10:39 PM
Originally Posted by Chiteng
No I am speaking of Spanish Culture.

And no, we could deport them all.
I'm afraid I don't understand the thing about Spanish culture being decadent, but that is opinion anyway.

Yes, theoretically we could deport every illegal alien found within the borders of the U.S, but realistically that isn't going to happen.
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Chiteng
05-18-2007, 10:45 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
I'm afraid I don't understand the thing about Spanish culture being decadent, but that is opinion anyway.

Yes, theoretically we could deport every illegal alien found within the borders of the U.S, but realistically that isn't going to happen.
It certainly wont if US citizens refuse to consider the option.

But yes it COULD be done, and easily.
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tomtomsmom
05-18-2007, 10:56 PM
But it won't get done. I know in my area there is a large hispanic population. And if it weren't for them, nothing would get done!!!!!!! On every constuction site you see, 90% of the workers are hispanic. Many americans have become to lazy to do manual labor.
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Chiteng
05-18-2007, 11:04 PM
Originally Posted by tomtomsmom
But it won't get done. I know in my area there is a large hispanic population. And if it weren't for them, nothing would get done!!!!!!! On every constuction site you see, 90% of the workers are hispanic. Many americans have become to lazy to do manual labor.
Thats a nice canard. Pay the 20$/hour and they will get unlazy.

I dont care about claims of labor shortage. You cant find the labor?
DONT BUILD or PAY THEM MORE.

There is plenty of native USA labor, they just cant survive on uncompensated
wages.

I dont care about agricultural collapse, I dont care about economic blackmail.
If we cant control our own country, we wont have one.

Deport them, deport them all.
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tomtomsmom
05-18-2007, 11:06 PM
Sorry dude but digging a ditch isn't worth $20 an hour. Maybe people should stop thinking they are entitled to more than they are. And on that note, perhaps spewing nothing but hate should stop as well.
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Chiteng
05-18-2007, 11:11 PM
Originally Posted by tomtomsmom
Sorry dude but digging a ditch isn't worth $20 an hour. Maybe people should stop thinking they are entitled to more than they are. And on that note, perhaps spewing nothing but hate should stop as well.
I am advocating enforcing the law.
You advocate giving the country away.

If the ditch isnt worth 20$/hour, then YOU dig it, or do without it.

The only one talking about hate is you.
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Keltoi
05-18-2007, 11:15 PM
Personally I find the whole "they do work Americans won't do" argument to be a red herring. It is about labor costs. Companies will hire illegals because the cost of their labor is so low. Americans have no problem with manual labor if they are paid at least minimum wage.
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tomtomsmom
05-18-2007, 11:16 PM
In no way am I advocating giving the country away. That is stupidity. And for your information I HAVE DUG THE DITCH! And I have picked the cotton. I have worked side by side with some of the hardest working people I have ever met. And I can tell you one thing for sure. None of them were white. And sorry to tell ya bro, but in reading your posts I never see anything but hate. Why don't you try reading some of mine before you jump to whatever conclusion you think you can make about me.
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Chiteng
05-18-2007, 11:20 PM
Originally Posted by tomtomsmom
In no way am I advocating giving the country away. That is stupidity. And for your information I HAVE DUG THE DITCH! And I have picked the cotton. I have worked side by side with some of the hardest working people I have ever met. And I can tell you one thing for sure. None of them were white. And sorry to tell ya bro, but in reading your posts I never see anything but hate. Why don't you try reading some of mine before you jump to whatever conclusion you think you can make about me.
I can conclude that you dont feel the US laws need to be obeyed.
That much is obvious. What else do I need to know?

All I advocate is enforcement of the law. If that is hate, then I am far from alone.
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tomtomsmom
05-18-2007, 11:20 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Personally I find the whole "they do work Americans won't do" argument to be a red herring. It is about labor costs. Companies will hire illegals because the cost of their labor is so low. Americans have no problem with manual labor if they are paid at least minimum wage.
Minumum wage is WAY less than what the hispanics get paid in my area. General labor here starts out at $10 an hour. That is nearly twice our minimum wage. I know alot of guys that would rather work for 5.75 an hour at Burger King in the AC than get out and work in the sun. But then there is the big money. Selling dope on the street corner turns a much higher profit.


I am not saying that they should be here illegally. But if they are already here, give them a chance to become legal. If they don't take it, then you can kick them out. But it isn't going to stop. They will keep coming.
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Chiteng
05-18-2007, 11:21 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Personally I find the whole "they do work Americans won't do" argument to be a red herring. It is about labor costs. Companies will hire illegals because the cost of their labor is so low. Americans have no problem with manual labor if they are paid at least minimum wage.
You are correct Keltoi, and I apologize for baiting you.
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tomtomsmom
05-18-2007, 11:23 PM
Originally Posted by Chiteng
I can conclude that you dont feel the US laws need to be obeyed.
That much is obvious. What else do I need to know?

All I advocate is enforcement of the law. If that is hate, then I am far from alone.
Some laws do need to be followed. And some laws need to be changed. Your posts seem to not be aimed at law enforcement. More like burn them all at the stake.
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Chiteng
05-18-2007, 11:23 PM
Originally Posted by tomtomsmom
Minumum wage is WAY less than what the hispanics get paid in my area. General labor here starts out at $10 an hour. That is nearly twice our minimum wage. I know alot of guys that would rather work for 5.75 an hour at Burger King in the AC than get out and work in the sun. But then there is the big money. Selling dope on the street corner turns a much higher profit.


I am not saying that they should be here illegally. But if they are already here, give them a chance to become legal. If they don't take it, then you can kick them out. But it isn't going to stop. They will keep coming.
I agree with the last statement,
the only solution that will actually work, is force.
The laws need to be enforced.

NOTHING else will solve the problem.
And I dont agree that rewarding people who break the law is a good idea.
They should be the first deported.
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Chiteng
05-18-2007, 11:24 PM
Originally Posted by tomtomsmom
Some laws do need to be followed. And some laws need to be changed. Your posts seem to not be aimed at law enforcement. More like burn them all at the stake.

Deportations kill no one.
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Keltoi
05-18-2007, 11:27 PM
I was raised doing farm labor. It isn't about what race works harder. The U.S. didn't get where it is today by being lazy. I agree that there needs to be a system established to document these people and give them some path to citizenship. From what I understand, illegals will be forced to return to their home country in order to apply for legal citizenship. That sounds reasonable to me. However, I don't buy into the myth that Mexicans are somehow doing work that white people or other Americans won't do, because that is completely false.
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tomtomsmom
05-18-2007, 11:31 PM
Deportations kill no one.

So says you.


I was raised doing farm labor. It isn't about what race works harder. The U.S. didn't get where it is today by being lazy. I agree that there needs to be a system established to document these people and give them some path to citizenship. From what I understand, illegals will be forced to return to their home country in order to apply for legal citizenship. That sounds reasonable to me. However, I don't buy into the myth that Mexicans are somehow doing work that white people or other Americans won't do, because that is completely false.

No we did ge to where we are by being lazy. Granted it is a new thing here but, look at the youth today. Overwieght lazy kids who go outside for 15 minutes and complain about it being too hot. You may not but the "myth" but I can assure you, it is a reality where I come from.
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Chiteng
05-18-2007, 11:32 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
I was raised doing farm labor. It isn't about what race works harder. The U.S. didn't get where it is today by being lazy. I agree that there needs to be a system established to document these people and give them some path to citizenship. From what I understand, illegals will be forced to return to their home country in order to apply for legal citizenship. That sounds reasonable to me. However, I don't buy into the myth that Mexicans are somehow doing work that white people or other Americans won't do, because that is completely false.
And your check is in the mail.

They're blowing smoke. These are the same people telling you there's "10 to 12 million" illegal immigrants in the United States. Anyone with a functioning brain cell knows that's bull. There are 10 to 12 million illegals in California alone. There's more than a million in North Carolina, a state with a total population of < eight million.

There's not going to be any fence, or fines, or visas based on work skills. It's all bull. The minute that bill is signed, every immigrant in the country is legal. All the rest of the bull is based on "triggers", which aint going to happen. The bill grants legal status immediately, with the so called "residency requirements" to be implemented later on when the "trigger" requirments are met. Those "triggers" are never going to be pulled. It's all a bunch of smoke and mirrors to hide the fact that it makes every wetback in the country a legal resident the moment the ink dries on the bill. Anybody buying into this load is as stupid as the government thinks they are.

The instant that bill is signed, the game is OVER.
They will be legal residents with VOTES.


The ONLY good thing about it, will be the GOP will die.
It will be a one party country.
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tomtomsmom
05-18-2007, 11:34 PM
wetback


Yeah sure.....no hate there.............whatever
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Keltoi
05-18-2007, 11:35 PM
Originally Posted by Chiteng
And your check is in the mail.

They're blowing smoke. These are the same people telling you there's "10 to 12 million" illegal immigrants in the United States. Anyone with a functioning brain cell knows that's bull. There are 10 to 12 million illegals in California alone. There's more than a million in North Carolina, a state with a total population of < eight million.

There's not going to be any fence, or fines, or visas based on work skills. It's all bull. The minute that bill is signed, every immigrant in the country is legal. All the rest of the bull is based on "triggers", which aint going to happen. The bill grants legal status immediately, with the so called "residency requirements" to be implemented later on when the "trigger" requirments are met. Those "triggers" are never going to be pulled. It's all a bunch of smoke and mirrors to hide the fact that it makes every wetback in the country a legal resident the moment the ink dries on the bill. Anybody buying into this load is as stupid as the government thinks they are.

The instant that bill is signed, the game is OVER.
They will be legal residents with VOTES.


The ONLY good thing about it, will be the GOP will die.
It will be a one party country.
The reason the Republican Party has been so weak on this issue is because they get a larger number of Hispanic votes than they do black votes. What Republican Party chairman is going to endorse alienating this potential voting base? I don't want amnesty either. The first act should be total border lockdown. Then we can deal with the obvious problem of millions of illegals already here.
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Chiteng
05-18-2007, 11:40 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
The reason the Republican Party has been so weak on this issue is because they get a larger number of Hispanic votes than they do black votes. What Republican Party chairman is going to endorse alienating this potential voting base? I don't want amnesty either. The first act should be total border lockdown. Then we can deal with the obvious problem of millions of illegals already here.
Agreed, anything is better than this
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Chiteng
05-18-2007, 11:42 PM
Originally Posted by tomtomsmom

Yeah sure.....no hate there.............whatever
Well you certainly dont seem to understand the word 'Criminal'
or 'Illegal'

They ARE criminals, and they all KNOW it. If you get a speeding ticket
do you pay the fine?

There are consequences for breaking the LAW
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tomtomsmom
05-18-2007, 11:44 PM
And yet again, you get called on the hate falling out of your brain and then try to change it into something else. How surprising......................

I am done arguing with you, it is a waste of time.
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Muezzin
05-19-2007, 01:19 PM
This thread has turned very ugly indeed. I'm closing it.
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