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Scotpak
05-18-2007, 06:24 PM
ASA.Has anyone else ever wondered why millions of Muslims are unwelcoming even hostile towards coreligionists who come from different backgrounds!?
I've often experienced Pakistanis traeting non-Pakistani Muslims as if they're inferior but its not restricted to one nationaity so how do we deal with this?
Sadly it does often have racist undertones even though such people wouldn't openly admit it for example Pak Muslims don't care about Indian Muslims and vice versa i assume!.Anyone who has visited the Middle East will tell you that Arabs don't think much of the Africans or anyone else as they consider themselves as chosen people!!!.I am not saying every Muslim has this attitude towards those from different backgrounds however lets not deny that there is a problem that needs proper discussion.
ReplyI've often experienced Pakistanis traeting non-Pakistani Muslims as if they're inferior but its not restricted to one nationaity so how do we deal with this?
Sadly it does often have racist undertones even though such people wouldn't openly admit it for example Pak Muslims don't care about Indian Muslims and vice versa i assume!.Anyone who has visited the Middle East will tell you that Arabs don't think much of the Africans or anyone else as they consider themselves as chosen people!!!.I am not saying every Muslim has this attitude towards those from different backgrounds however lets not deny that there is a problem that needs proper discussion.
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Muezzin
05-18-2007, 06:29 PM
This issue should be discussed. But crucially, it should be discussed respectfully.
Replychacha_jalebi
05-18-2007, 06:46 PM
i remem in saudi, there was a man and he shouted in english
"these foreignors should pick up the kaaba and take it with them"
and i was like woh blud, but after that statement that man had to answer to a lot of uncles :D
racism is stupid, muslim is a muslim simple! end off :D bye:p
Reply"these foreignors should pick up the kaaba and take it with them"
and i was like woh blud, but after that statement that man had to answer to a lot of uncles :D
racism is stupid, muslim is a muslim simple! end off :D bye:p
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Woodrow
05-18-2007, 06:54 PM
The reality is that just because we are Muslim, we do not automatically loose our bad habits and misconceptions. Prejudice is fear turned inside out. We tend to believe that those who do not look like us can not believe as we do.
The Arab Muslims had to watch the Arab race become the minority race in Islam. as Islam grows in different areas different races will become the majority. as Islam spreads into the Western World the face of Muslims will change, Remember as Islam spreads it not only grows into the people the people grow into it. Islam will be successfull in the West when it can be seen that the average Western Muslim is White Anglo-Saxon. I imagine there are non-white Muslims who have a hidden fear that this will corrupt Islam and this is the basis of some of the prejudice.
The cure for prejudice is knowledge and to truly understand that Islam does not have a preferred skin color.
ReplyThe Arab Muslims had to watch the Arab race become the minority race in Islam. as Islam grows in different areas different races will become the majority. as Islam spreads into the Western World the face of Muslims will change, Remember as Islam spreads it not only grows into the people the people grow into it. Islam will be successfull in the West when it can be seen that the average Western Muslim is White Anglo-Saxon. I imagine there are non-white Muslims who have a hidden fear that this will corrupt Islam and this is the basis of some of the prejudice.
The cure for prejudice is knowledge and to truly understand that Islam does not have a preferred skin color.
mohammed farah
05-18-2007, 06:59 PM
I found this article quite intresting
Prejudice & Racism Amongst Muslims
Muslims in the Mirror : Prejudice in the Muslim community
‘I never considered a non-Arab equal to me,’ a sister once remarked. ‘I know it’s wrong, but in the place I grew up in, that was how we grew up thinking.’ She had grown up in a country considered "Islamic".
Islam is the most anti-racist and anti-prejudicial way of life. Islamic history testifies to the openness Muslims have shown towards people of different cultures and religions. Within their own ranks, sincere and practicing Muslims have always kept their hearts and minds open to their brethren, no matter what their background.
Yet, there is a problem in the Ummah today. Prejudices are not the problems of others. They have become the very sad reality amongst a number of Muslims as well.
This is not just on the level of small minority Muslim communities in non-Muslim lands. It is also a problem in "Islamic" countries as well. Years of nationalism in theory and practice have diminished the powerful universality Muslims cherished in their societies.
First the bad news
Laws and Customs
There are a number of countries in the Muslim world, in which racism and prejudice are in full swing and justified by laws or social customs. These seek to exclude and shun on the basis of ethnicity and in some cases, race.
For instance, in certain countries, it is not permissible for children to study at a post-secondary level, even if their parents have been living or working in the country for a number of years. This is usually because of their national origin.
In other countries, discrimination is used to exclude those who are not the original inhabitants of the land from citizenship.
Discrimination extends to the field of employment as well. In some "Islamic" countries, workers of one national origin are paid less than others although they may excel in their skills, education, and experience. It has been noted that a white or black person carrying an American passport gets better pay than a person of Asian origin carrying the same passport.
Written and unwritten laws in some Arab countries prohibit Arab women from marrying a non-Arab.
Attitudes and Words
The discrimination is not reserved to laws though. It’s not difficult to hear an uncommon racial epithet used among some Muslims, ignorant or negligent of the Quran and Sunnah’s condemnation of backbiting, slander and mockery.
Marriage
We know the Prophet married women across ethnic lines, and therefore, in Islam, there is no ethnic bar to marriage. He also made it very clear, in his last Khutba, that superiority in Islam is not based on blackness, whiteness, Arabness or the lack of it.
Contrast this with, for instance, the Hindu caste system, under which inter-caste marriage is prohibited.
Sadly, such Hindu notions still influence a number of ignorant Muslims in South Asia who will not, for instance, marry outside if they are Syed (claim lineage to the Prophet), Shaikh (a business community) or across tribal lines if they come from the "Khans," "Moghuls" or "Jats".
While some Muslims may justify this as simply a measure to ensure compatibility between husband and wife, it is Islamically incorrect to discriminate upright Muslims on this basis.
The Masjid or Islamic Center
There have been some isolated cases in which Muslims who have felt so excluded at specific mosques called anti-discrimination hotlines to complain.
Alhamdulillah, all Masjids are open to all people and no Masjid has racial policies. However, racially divided neighborhoods result in an ethnically dominant Masjid type. Usually, negative attitudes of some and language specific Masjid programs cause miscommunication. This is because some people want to make sure their mother tongue survives in America.
...and the good news
The Prayer: A Lesson in Muslim Unity
Five times a day, every day, Muslims of every cultural and ethnic background stand shoulder to shoulder. There is no issue of who stands where based on their color or ethnicity.
On a larger level, to remember that millions of Muslims, everywhere of all shapes, colors, sizes, countries, etc. all face the same place to pray, five times a day, is incredible. Yet this lesson not just in Muslim unity, but in ethno-national harmony, is usually overlooked.
The Mosque: Open To All Despite Problems
Alhamdulillah, one problem Muslims do not have is membership-exclusive mosques. Any Muslim can pray in any mosque. While those individual Muslims with racism and prejudice in their hearts and minds may not treat them well, they will not exclude them physically from attending or praying in any mosque, anywhere.
A brother from the United Kingdom who converted to Islam once mentioned how on a trip to apartheid-era South Africa, while he found black and white churches, he did not encounter black and non-black mosques. That made him start thinking about this curious phenomenon, and he eventually accepted Islam.
Muslims United In Pain
With the latest headlines focused on Chechnya, Muslims in America and abroad have generously donated to help their oppressed brothers and sisters there.
There is a keen understanding amongst many Muslims that when it comes to oppression, it doesn’t matter if you’re a black Muslim, a white Muslim, a Kosovar Muslim, a Chechen Muslim, a Kashmiri Muslim or a Somali Muslim, you are suffering.
Imams often make Dua for oppressed Muslims they have never met, no matter what their skin color. Muslims pray along in sympathy and support.
Here is another clear example of Muslim unity. All we need to do is now pray and help all human beings who are suffering whether Muslim or not.
Muslim American Leaders are Diverse
Can you name the top four speakers and leaders amongst Muslims in America today?
If you can, you’ll realize that all four are of different racial and linguistic backgrounds. They are invited to Muslim gatherings regularly, no matter what the ethnic background of the audience.
These four leaders are: Imam Siraj Wahhaj, an African American Muslim; Dr. Jamal Badawi, an Egyptian Muslim; Dr. Abdalla Idris Ali, a Sudanese Muslim, and Imam Hamza Yusuf, a Caucasian American Muslim.
This shows that a Muslim leader is respected for his knowledge and commitment to the Deen by most Muslims, not his background.
Marriage: The Litmus Test
All that said though, the real test of openness to other cultures is marriage. Islam and a growing number of Muslims pass there with flying colors.
As mentioned above, we know the Prophet married women across ethnic lines. Muslims, whether in the Muslim world or in North America, are following his example more often today.
So you’ll find an African or Caucasian-American convert married to an Arab, Indo-Pakistani or Malaysian; you’ll find an Indian married to a Palestinian; you’ll find a Kashmiri married to an Arab-American, and on and on.
There is a keen and growing understanding amongst a number of Muslims, in line with Islam, that what unites hearts and people is Islam, not skin color, ethnicity or territory.
Sincerity, Knowledge, Forgiveness Are The Cure
Curing the disease of racism takes time. It also takes humility, sincerity and requires seeking out the right guidance. It means admitting we were or are wrong, sincerely repenting and making a concrete effort to change.
While the planet's approximately 1.2 billion Muslims do have their share of problems with each other, Alhamdulillah, we still have the tools to eradicate the cancer of racism and prejudice in our midst. Let’s begin the process with ourselves, and then help them Ummah do the same.
Source: Sound Vision
http://www.soundvision.com/racism/amongmuslims.shtml
ReplyPrejudice & Racism Amongst Muslims
Muslims in the Mirror : Prejudice in the Muslim community
‘I never considered a non-Arab equal to me,’ a sister once remarked. ‘I know it’s wrong, but in the place I grew up in, that was how we grew up thinking.’ She had grown up in a country considered "Islamic".
Islam is the most anti-racist and anti-prejudicial way of life. Islamic history testifies to the openness Muslims have shown towards people of different cultures and religions. Within their own ranks, sincere and practicing Muslims have always kept their hearts and minds open to their brethren, no matter what their background.
Yet, there is a problem in the Ummah today. Prejudices are not the problems of others. They have become the very sad reality amongst a number of Muslims as well.
This is not just on the level of small minority Muslim communities in non-Muslim lands. It is also a problem in "Islamic" countries as well. Years of nationalism in theory and practice have diminished the powerful universality Muslims cherished in their societies.
First the bad news
Laws and Customs
There are a number of countries in the Muslim world, in which racism and prejudice are in full swing and justified by laws or social customs. These seek to exclude and shun on the basis of ethnicity and in some cases, race.
For instance, in certain countries, it is not permissible for children to study at a post-secondary level, even if their parents have been living or working in the country for a number of years. This is usually because of their national origin.
In other countries, discrimination is used to exclude those who are not the original inhabitants of the land from citizenship.
Discrimination extends to the field of employment as well. In some "Islamic" countries, workers of one national origin are paid less than others although they may excel in their skills, education, and experience. It has been noted that a white or black person carrying an American passport gets better pay than a person of Asian origin carrying the same passport.
Written and unwritten laws in some Arab countries prohibit Arab women from marrying a non-Arab.
Attitudes and Words
The discrimination is not reserved to laws though. It’s not difficult to hear an uncommon racial epithet used among some Muslims, ignorant or negligent of the Quran and Sunnah’s condemnation of backbiting, slander and mockery.
Marriage
We know the Prophet married women across ethnic lines, and therefore, in Islam, there is no ethnic bar to marriage. He also made it very clear, in his last Khutba, that superiority in Islam is not based on blackness, whiteness, Arabness or the lack of it.
Contrast this with, for instance, the Hindu caste system, under which inter-caste marriage is prohibited.
Sadly, such Hindu notions still influence a number of ignorant Muslims in South Asia who will not, for instance, marry outside if they are Syed (claim lineage to the Prophet), Shaikh (a business community) or across tribal lines if they come from the "Khans," "Moghuls" or "Jats".
While some Muslims may justify this as simply a measure to ensure compatibility between husband and wife, it is Islamically incorrect to discriminate upright Muslims on this basis.
The Masjid or Islamic Center
There have been some isolated cases in which Muslims who have felt so excluded at specific mosques called anti-discrimination hotlines to complain.
Alhamdulillah, all Masjids are open to all people and no Masjid has racial policies. However, racially divided neighborhoods result in an ethnically dominant Masjid type. Usually, negative attitudes of some and language specific Masjid programs cause miscommunication. This is because some people want to make sure their mother tongue survives in America.
...and the good news
The Prayer: A Lesson in Muslim Unity
Five times a day, every day, Muslims of every cultural and ethnic background stand shoulder to shoulder. There is no issue of who stands where based on their color or ethnicity.
On a larger level, to remember that millions of Muslims, everywhere of all shapes, colors, sizes, countries, etc. all face the same place to pray, five times a day, is incredible. Yet this lesson not just in Muslim unity, but in ethno-national harmony, is usually overlooked.
The Mosque: Open To All Despite Problems
Alhamdulillah, one problem Muslims do not have is membership-exclusive mosques. Any Muslim can pray in any mosque. While those individual Muslims with racism and prejudice in their hearts and minds may not treat them well, they will not exclude them physically from attending or praying in any mosque, anywhere.
A brother from the United Kingdom who converted to Islam once mentioned how on a trip to apartheid-era South Africa, while he found black and white churches, he did not encounter black and non-black mosques. That made him start thinking about this curious phenomenon, and he eventually accepted Islam.
Muslims United In Pain
With the latest headlines focused on Chechnya, Muslims in America and abroad have generously donated to help their oppressed brothers and sisters there.
There is a keen understanding amongst many Muslims that when it comes to oppression, it doesn’t matter if you’re a black Muslim, a white Muslim, a Kosovar Muslim, a Chechen Muslim, a Kashmiri Muslim or a Somali Muslim, you are suffering.
Imams often make Dua for oppressed Muslims they have never met, no matter what their skin color. Muslims pray along in sympathy and support.
Here is another clear example of Muslim unity. All we need to do is now pray and help all human beings who are suffering whether Muslim or not.
Muslim American Leaders are Diverse
Can you name the top four speakers and leaders amongst Muslims in America today?
If you can, you’ll realize that all four are of different racial and linguistic backgrounds. They are invited to Muslim gatherings regularly, no matter what the ethnic background of the audience.
These four leaders are: Imam Siraj Wahhaj, an African American Muslim; Dr. Jamal Badawi, an Egyptian Muslim; Dr. Abdalla Idris Ali, a Sudanese Muslim, and Imam Hamza Yusuf, a Caucasian American Muslim.
This shows that a Muslim leader is respected for his knowledge and commitment to the Deen by most Muslims, not his background.
Marriage: The Litmus Test
All that said though, the real test of openness to other cultures is marriage. Islam and a growing number of Muslims pass there with flying colors.
As mentioned above, we know the Prophet married women across ethnic lines. Muslims, whether in the Muslim world or in North America, are following his example more often today.
So you’ll find an African or Caucasian-American convert married to an Arab, Indo-Pakistani or Malaysian; you’ll find an Indian married to a Palestinian; you’ll find a Kashmiri married to an Arab-American, and on and on.
There is a keen and growing understanding amongst a number of Muslims, in line with Islam, that what unites hearts and people is Islam, not skin color, ethnicity or territory.
Sincerity, Knowledge, Forgiveness Are The Cure
Curing the disease of racism takes time. It also takes humility, sincerity and requires seeking out the right guidance. It means admitting we were or are wrong, sincerely repenting and making a concrete effort to change.
While the planet's approximately 1.2 billion Muslims do have their share of problems with each other, Alhamdulillah, we still have the tools to eradicate the cancer of racism and prejudice in our midst. Let’s begin the process with ourselves, and then help them Ummah do the same.
Source: Sound Vision
http://www.soundvision.com/racism/amongmuslims.shtml
Scotpak
05-18-2007, 10:12 PM
Nice copy and paste!!:D Only that there are rouglhy 1.8 billion Muslims according to islamicpopulation.com not 1.2 billion as mentioned above!:thumbs_up
Replytomtomsmom
05-18-2007, 10:15 PM
Ok random question that may be off topic but I hope not. Would you say that converts are more tolerant than born muslims when it comes to different colors??
ReplyWoodrow
05-19-2007, 12:32 AM
Todays convert from the Western World is Most likely to be White. As a result they are entering into a religion that is majority non-White. I would say that to be a convert requires that the person has already shed the barrier of prejudice. It is difficult to imagine a person would convert if they had any racist attitudes.
But to be fair I have not personaly met any non-white Muslims that I would say were racist.
ReplyBut to be fair I have not personaly met any non-white Muslims that I would say were racist.
NobleMuslimUK
05-19-2007, 12:34 AM
:sl:
I think its more to do with language barriers and culture differences, as a lot of muslims do tend to hold on to their culture. Although I find these articles are generalising muslims due to some isolated voices. If anything we have become more tolerant of other races or non-believers in general, the proof for that is Islam's rapid growth around the world.
ReplyI think its more to do with language barriers and culture differences, as a lot of muslims do tend to hold on to their culture. Although I find these articles are generalising muslims due to some isolated voices. If anything we have become more tolerant of other races or non-believers in general, the proof for that is Islam's rapid growth around the world.
Umar001
05-19-2007, 12:42 AM
I dont defend racism, so please noone think that.
I will say that sometimes we can feel someone has been racist toward us, whilst inreality they have been more thoughtful than we thought.
An example is that of a black brother asking an asian man for his daughter, alot of the time I hear and I have felt too that 'argh why are people so racist, they should just let things be' at the same time, people are assuming that it is only the colour that makes one think twice, for example, there are many cultural differences which in some cases cause divorce, not in all, but enough to make a father hesistate and not want to take a risk, another thing would be that within your own cultural background you tend to have a common system, i.e. a great tribe leader who people would turn to for rulings, when people then marry outside, the father feels that this reliable safety net is gone thus again making him hesitant.
And so sometimes the father is actually thinking he is doing a favour to the black brother, I guess someone is thinking 'Well not all the time' and I agree maybe not all the time, but we dont know who is so lets give them all the benefit of doubt.
Plus brothers we all know we gonna be protective over our daughters, lol.
Anyhow thats my discovery in my 1.86 years as a Muslim man.
ReplyI will say that sometimes we can feel someone has been racist toward us, whilst inreality they have been more thoughtful than we thought.
An example is that of a black brother asking an asian man for his daughter, alot of the time I hear and I have felt too that 'argh why are people so racist, they should just let things be' at the same time, people are assuming that it is only the colour that makes one think twice, for example, there are many cultural differences which in some cases cause divorce, not in all, but enough to make a father hesistate and not want to take a risk, another thing would be that within your own cultural background you tend to have a common system, i.e. a great tribe leader who people would turn to for rulings, when people then marry outside, the father feels that this reliable safety net is gone thus again making him hesitant.
And so sometimes the father is actually thinking he is doing a favour to the black brother, I guess someone is thinking 'Well not all the time' and I agree maybe not all the time, but we dont know who is so lets give them all the benefit of doubt.
Plus brothers we all know we gonna be protective over our daughters, lol.
Anyhow thats my discovery in my 1.86 years as a Muslim man.
beespreeteam
05-19-2007, 06:58 AM
Good article on Racism in Islam:
http://beespree.com/story.php?title=...ism_in_Islam-1
Replyhttp://beespree.com/story.php?title=...ism_in_Islam-1
E'jaazi
05-19-2007, 07:29 AM
I have had this problem plenty of times. I go to a Masjid run by brothers from another country and some of them will not even speak! Although I dress according to the Sunnah and wear the beard, they will look past me to someone in the back who is clean shaven, wearing jeans that hang down and a tight shirt, and ask them to call the Adhan or Iqaama instead of me. And when we stand for prayer, they move away from me. I know some people do not believe in foot to foot and shoulder to shoulder, but we should close the gaps. These brother move away as though they don't want any contact with you. It is truly a sad thing to see muslims acting this way.
ReplyMusalmaan
05-19-2007, 08:18 AM
:sl: i think its mainly because we lack beneficial knowledge and therefore, righteous action. Once we know the true intention of shariah and what Allah and His messenger likes and dislikes, i dont think a sincere one do the opposite thing to earn the wrath of God. racism is tooo bad.
Allah, Most High says in the Holy Quran (interpretation of the meaning):
ReplyAllah, Most High says in the Holy Quran (interpretation of the meaning):
O You who believe! Indeed We have created you from a single male and female and We have made you into nations and tribes so that you know each other, Verily the noblest among you in the sight of Allah is the one who is most deeply conscious of Him. Behold Allah is all knowing, all aware (49:13).
"O you who believe! Let not a group scoff at another group, it may be that the latter are better than the former; nor let (some) women scoff at other women, it may be that the latter are better than the former, nor defame one another, nor insult one another by nicknames. How bad is it, to insult ones brother after having Faith. And whosoever does not repent, then such are indeed wrong doers" (Quran 49:11).
O You who believe! Avoid most suspicion; for suspicion in some cases is a sin; and spy not on each other, nor speak ill of each other behind their backs (49:12)
"O you who believe! Let not a group scoff at another group, it may be that the latter are better than the former; nor let (some) women scoff at other women, it may be that the latter are better than the former, nor defame one another, nor insult one another by nicknames. How bad is it, to insult ones brother after having Faith. And whosoever does not repent, then such are indeed wrong doers" (Quran 49:11).
O You who believe! Avoid most suspicion; for suspicion in some cases is a sin; and spy not on each other, nor speak ill of each other behind their backs (49:12)
AmarFaisal
05-19-2007, 08:51 AM
Assalamoalaikum
I deal with racism nearly everyday in Kuwait. SOme ppl say they r the most racist in the middle east, the Kuwaitis. Ofcourse it's not true for all.
My husband has a negative image of Indians, Americans n British. I always tell him that I have met Indians,British,Americans who r wonderful (hindu, christians, sikhs, muslims) But he doesnt change his view. Mayb if he meets someone nice he'd beleive.
Same with others, truely racists r those who remain blind to even the good they see in other races.
Other racists r those who r waiting to see some good in other races so they can beleive in them.
ReplyI deal with racism nearly everyday in Kuwait. SOme ppl say they r the most racist in the middle east, the Kuwaitis. Ofcourse it's not true for all.
My husband has a negative image of Indians, Americans n British. I always tell him that I have met Indians,British,Americans who r wonderful (hindu, christians, sikhs, muslims) But he doesnt change his view. Mayb if he meets someone nice he'd beleive.
Same with others, truely racists r those who remain blind to even the good they see in other races.
Other racists r those who r waiting to see some good in other races so they can beleive in them.
Hashim_507
05-19-2007, 09:01 AM
I've experience racism a lot in my community; Its a daily problem for me. I pray for Allah to end all this injustice among muslims.
Reply- Qatada -
05-19-2007, 01:24 PM
:salamext:
The Prophet of Allaah, Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: 'There is no superiority for an Arab over a non-Arab, nor for a non-Arab over an Arab, nor for a fair-skinned person over a person with dark skin, nor for a dark-skinned person over a person with fair skin. Whoever is more pious and God-fearing is more deserving of honour.' (Musnad Ahmad)
more:
http://www.islamicboard.com/userpage-user49.html
ReplyThe Prophet of Allaah, Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: 'There is no superiority for an Arab over a non-Arab, nor for a non-Arab over an Arab, nor for a fair-skinned person over a person with dark skin, nor for a dark-skinned person over a person with fair skin. Whoever is more pious and God-fearing is more deserving of honour.' (Musnad Ahmad)
more:
http://www.islamicboard.com/userpage-user49.html
Darkseid
05-19-2007, 03:43 PM
I think the racism comes from the lines of being part Arab or not part Arab.
For instance, Kurds and Arabs cannot stand each other and must Kurds are Sunnis.
So why can they not stand each other?
Because the Arabs want to dominate the entire muslim world or what they preceive to be the Arab World.
That is one of the extents some Arabs want .
Most of them are fixed on conquering all of this.
The strange thing is that Egyptians and Beber States (North African States) have none or little Arab descendents. Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria, Mauritania, and Libya are all Beber states. Egypt is full of people that are descendets of ancient Egyptians.
Sudan is full of Ku****e people.
Somalia is full of Somalian people.
Iraq is full of Kurds, Assyrians, Turmen, and Arab-Babylonians.
Syria is full of Arab-Syrians.
Palestine is full of Arab-Philistinians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palesti...e_Palestinians
The true language of the Palestinians is Aramaic, not Arabic. Arabic came into that area as the Arabs try to Arabify everything since they believe they were to sole rulers of the Earth just like the Jews before them.
In fact, Muhammad shall be quite furious of how the people after him show no justification for what they did. The Koran can be translated into any other language. If Muhammad was still alive, he might even be prefering to use English rather than Arabic, since English is much more liberal than Arabic. And Muhammad was a liberal Arab. Everything he did in Arabia was considerably liberal during that time. For all you know, he might have even choose to make his own language since that would have been the best idea.
And look.
Palestinians (which often identify themselves as Arabs or use the Arabic language) are more closer related to the true Israelis (non-european Jews) than they are to Arabs.
Therefore Palestinians should stop calling themselves Arabs and start calling themselves Levantines. The same can be said about the Israelis. They should look at themselves as Levantines before Israelis.
And even Jordan has something about it that isn't Arabic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Jordan
From 45% to 55% of all Jordanians are Palestinian Levantines.
Only the Royal Family and probably the Noble Families are true Arabs.
So seriously there need to be an understanding of the people of what they are and what they aren't.
They are muslims (mostly), but they aren't all Arabs. In fact probably only 10% of all of the muslims throughout the Middle East are Arabs.
And that is something muslims should take a quite deal of interest in.
Arabic doesn't have to be the language of the Koran. If you can speak English as good as you can speak Arabic, then you should be able to say everything in the Koran in English in the exact same meaning as it is in Arabic. And those two languages are entirely different. English is an Indo-European Language like Farsi (Persian). Arabic is a Semetic Language like Hebrew.
ReplyFor instance, Kurds and Arabs cannot stand each other and must Kurds are Sunnis.
So why can they not stand each other?
Because the Arabs want to dominate the entire muslim world or what they preceive to be the Arab World.
That is one of the extents some Arabs want .
Most of them are fixed on conquering all of this.
The strange thing is that Egyptians and Beber States (North African States) have none or little Arab descendents. Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria, Mauritania, and Libya are all Beber states. Egypt is full of people that are descendets of ancient Egyptians.
Sudan is full of Ku****e people.
Somalia is full of Somalian people.
Iraq is full of Kurds, Assyrians, Turmen, and Arab-Babylonians.
Syria is full of Arab-Syrians.
Ethnic Syrians are an overall Semitic Levantine people. While modern-day Syrians are commonly described as Arabs by virtue of their modern-day language and bonds to Arab culture and history — they are in fact a blend of the various ancient Semitic groups indigenous to the region who in turn admixed with Arab settlers and immigrants who arrived following the Arab expansion. There is also a smaller degree of admixture from non-Semitic peoples that have occupied the region over time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palesti...e_Palestinians
The true language of the Palestinians is Aramaic, not Arabic. Arabic came into that area as the Arabs try to Arabify everything since they believe they were to sole rulers of the Earth just like the Jews before them.
In fact, Muhammad shall be quite furious of how the people after him show no justification for what they did. The Koran can be translated into any other language. If Muhammad was still alive, he might even be prefering to use English rather than Arabic, since English is much more liberal than Arabic. And Muhammad was a liberal Arab. Everything he did in Arabia was considerably liberal during that time. For all you know, he might have even choose to make his own language since that would have been the best idea.
As genetic techniques have advanced, it has become possible to look directly into the question of the ancestry of the Palestinians. In recent years, many genetic surveys have suggested that, at least paternally, most of the various Jewish ethnic divisions and the Palestinians — and in some cases other Levantines — are genetically closer to each other than the Palestinians to the original Arabs of Arabia or [European] Jews to non-Jewish Europeans.
Palestinian Jews are Jewish inhabitants of Palestine throughout certain periods of Middle Eastern history. After the modern State of Israel was born, nearly all native Palestinian Jews became citizens of Israel, and the term "Palestinian Jews" largely fell into disuse.
Therefore Palestinians should stop calling themselves Arabs and start calling themselves Levantines. The same can be said about the Israelis. They should look at themselves as Levantines before Israelis.
And even Jordan has something about it that isn't Arabic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Jordan
From 45% to 55% of all Jordanians are Palestinian Levantines.
Jordan's ruling class is made up of people of Bedouin Arab descent
So seriously there need to be an understanding of the people of what they are and what they aren't.
They are muslims (mostly), but they aren't all Arabs. In fact probably only 10% of all of the muslims throughout the Middle East are Arabs.
And that is something muslims should take a quite deal of interest in.
Arabic doesn't have to be the language of the Koran. If you can speak English as good as you can speak Arabic, then you should be able to say everything in the Koran in English in the exact same meaning as it is in Arabic. And those two languages are entirely different. English is an Indo-European Language like Farsi (Persian). Arabic is a Semetic Language like Hebrew.
AHMED_GUREY
05-19-2007, 07:13 PM
Darkseid your claim of Arabs and Kurds hating eachother i think is based on hearsay and ad populum, there ''is'' resentment in the ruling classes of these two groups but this resentment originates from colonialism. Kuwaiti ''Arab'' and Iraqi ''Arab'' ruling classes had the same feelings towards each other in the early nineties but the ordinary Kuwaiti and Iraqi muslims do not have ill feelings towards each other as is evident when looking at the support kuwaiti families are given Iraqi families who are fleeing the instability in Iraq, Turkish ruling classes and the Kurdish ruling classes both ''non-arabic'' speaking groups have ill feelings towards each other based on land
The Arab league is just an organization seeking to create stronger ties between various states in the ''Greater middle east'' you don't have to be a ''Arab speaking'' country to join it case in point; Somalia and it has nothing to do with Empire building. Cuba was not a Russian speaking country when it joined the Soviet Union, it did so because it was in it's best interest to do so.
Arabic was spearheaded by Prophet muhammad Pbuh as a unifying language in the muslim world. Translating the sacred text into a different language will not have the same meaning as it's original as the Q'uran was revealed in classical Arabic
After the collapse of the Arab Caliphates the Persians, The Turks, The Mongol-Tartars, Asians, The Berber moors, West Africans and East Africans and various other muslim groups all masters in their own right spread this language across the muslim world because they believed in it not because they were forced to do so..
What your promoting is dis-unity cause every muslim group will want it's language to become the lingua franca of the muslim world and this is counter-productive
ReplyThe Arab league is just an organization seeking to create stronger ties between various states in the ''Greater middle east'' you don't have to be a ''Arab speaking'' country to join it case in point; Somalia and it has nothing to do with Empire building. Cuba was not a Russian speaking country when it joined the Soviet Union, it did so because it was in it's best interest to do so.
Arabic was spearheaded by Prophet muhammad Pbuh as a unifying language in the muslim world. Translating the sacred text into a different language will not have the same meaning as it's original as the Q'uran was revealed in classical Arabic
After the collapse of the Arab Caliphates the Persians, The Turks, The Mongol-Tartars, Asians, The Berber moors, West Africans and East Africans and various other muslim groups all masters in their own right spread this language across the muslim world because they believed in it not because they were forced to do so..
What your promoting is dis-unity cause every muslim group will want it's language to become the lingua franca of the muslim world and this is counter-productive
Talibatul Ilm
05-19-2007, 07:50 PM
yea its sad how racist muslims can be. when i got married people were outrages that i married someone outside of my culture. the weird thing is, all the people in my community are of a different background than i am anyway! all these ppl that didnt even know me or took interest in me or my life were suddenly showing up at my house and calling me and telling me how much of a mistake i was making and how incompatible we are because we're of different nationalities! subhanAllah, thats why all of their children are struggling to get married and end up falling into evil acts because of their parents strictness in finding someone not only from the same country as them, but sometimes the same city their parents are from! and only a doctor or engineer would do! subhanAllah, deen ranks best over all of these things.
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