/* */

PDA

View Full Version : new fatwa from al ahzar?



doodlebug
05-20-2007, 03:33 AM
assalam alaykum

I'm confused. I read this on an egyptian forum but I can't obviously read the original article because I cannot read arabic. Can anyone who reads arabic tell me in a nutshell what this article says? People are saying that Al-Ahzar is putting out a new fatwa saying that if a man and a woman want to work in the same room together all they have to do is have the man suck from the woman's breast and thereby become her foster son and then they would be ok to be in the same room together.

Is this for real????? Stuff like this makes it so hard to stand up for our religion. What the heck are they thinking?????:?

Here is the link to the article:

http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/20...34518.html#007
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
Malaikah
05-20-2007, 03:44 AM
:sl:

:uuh:

I really doubt that a university as great as Al-Ahzar would give such a fatwa... the person has to be less than two years old to become like a son.

Breast-feeding a child over two years old will not have the effect of making him a relative (mahram). It is permitted to breast-feed one’s own child beyond two years, but two years is enough, as Allah says:

"The mothers shall give suck to their children for two whole years, (that is) for those (parents) who desire to complete the term of suckling . . ."
[al-Baqarah 2:233]
http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=721&ln=eng

It is haram for the woman to expose her self is such a way in the first place.

Even if it were possible (theoretically) it would cause so much corruption amongst the people... astagfurillah...
Reply

doodlebug
05-20-2007, 03:45 AM
So is this magazine publishing an untruth? Someone should do something about this. Already people are using it to attack our religion. :(
Reply

Malaikah
05-20-2007, 03:49 AM
:sl:

Allahu a'lam, but I really REALLY doubt any shaykh would give such a fatwa!

Maybe the person who translated it for you misunderstood, or left out some important details?
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
islamirama
05-20-2007, 03:51 AM
wa'alaikum as'salaam,

There's a thing called common sense, not many these days have it sadly. It tells us how something can be so ridiculous that we know its not true. I would not take islamic knowledge or fatwas or anything being posted on forums and being passed around in emails or any other modem that cannot be verified otherwise.

Muslims have worked side by side with non-muslims, and gender by gender together for centuries. Islam does not forbid all interaction between the genders, but it does put conditions and limits on it as well as rules to be followed in such an environment.

When Islam was new, then arabs used to do that. They wife would often breastfeed either a young lad(guy or girl) or a slave to make him/her part of the family. Then it was later one not allowed. So there was this Muslim who used to have relationship with his slave and one time he went out, and his wife had the slave drink from her to make her mahram. Then she told the husband what she did and he is not allowed to courtship her. He told the prophet (saws) about that and the prophet (saws) said it no longer applied (the rule) and that he can go to his slave. I'm not sure if there was a punishment prescirbed for the wife or not for doing this on purpose. Perhaps someone can correct me on it.

Anyways, i very highly doubt the validity of that "fatwa". Just think about it, would a 18yr old girl let a 50yr old man do that to her so he can be her 'foster son'? One of the rules of taking knowledge is to verify the source of it before taking it.

just my two cents :)
Reply

Malaikah
05-20-2007, 03:53 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama
When Islam was new, then arabs used to do that. They wife would often breastfeed either a young lad(guy or girl) or a slave to make him/her part of the family.
:sl:

Huh? Do you mean all types of breastfeeding children that are you not your own aren't allowed? Because that is contrary to what I know...

Can you clarify please. Sorry if I misunderstood.
Reply

Woodrow
05-20-2007, 03:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by doodlebug
assalam alaykum

I'm confused. I read this on an egyptian forum but I can't obviously read the original article because I cannot read arabic. Can anyone who reads arabic tell me in a nutshell what this article says? People are saying that Al-Ahzar is putting out a new fatwa saying that if a man and a woman want to work in the same room together all they have to do is have the man suck from the woman's breast and thereby become her foster son and then they would be ok to be in the same room together.

Is this for real????? Stuff like this makes it so hard to stand up for our religion. What the heck are they thinking?????:?

Here is the link to the article:

http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/20...34518.html#007
I can not find any such article in that link. The link appears to be a news line up for a News Channal out of Dubai. A broadcast Schedule, not a Fatwa.
Reply

Makky
05-20-2007, 04:09 AM
:sl:

There is No Fatwa like That absolutly...

To understand more about this issue read the following Fatwa

What is the ruling on drinking one’s wife’s milk?

Question:
My wife is currently feeding our newborn child.
During sex, I drank her milk.
Is her milk halal for me?

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

Before answering this question, we must explain some important points about the rulings (ahkaam) concerning breastfeeding (al-radaa’).

1. Breastfeeding is proven in the Qur’aan and Sunnah, and by ijmaa’ (scholarly consensus).

Qur’aan: Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “… your foster mothers who gave you suck, your foster milk suckling sisters…” [al-Nisa’ 4:23].

Sunnah: Ibn ‘Abbaas reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “What is forbidden by radaa’ (suckling or breastfeeding) is the same as what is forbidden by nasab (lineage).” (Agreed upon; al-Bukhaari, Muslim, 1444).

Ijmaa’: The scholars agree that the effect of radaa’ (breastfeeding) prohibits marriage and creates the relationship of mahram, and permits seeing and being alone (with the people to whom one is related through radaa’).

2. For breastfeeding to have the effect of transmitting its benefits from the nursing woman to the child suckled, it must meet certain conditions, which are:

The breastfeeding must happen within the first two years of the child’s life, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “The mothers shall give suck to their children for two whole years, (that is) for those (parents) who desire to complete the term of suckling…” [al-Baqarah 2:233].

The number of breastfeedings must total the known five feeds, in which the child eats his fill as if eating and drinking. If the child leaves the breast for a reason, such as to take a breath or to switch from one breast to the other, this (i.e., each separate time the child latches on) is not counted as one breastfeeding. This is the opinion of al-Shaafa’i, and the opinion favoured by Ibn al-Qayyim. The definition of rad’ah (one breastfeeding) is when the child sucks at the breast and drinks until the milk enters his stomach, then he leaves the breast of his own accord. The evidence for the number five (number of breastfeedings) is the report from ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) who said: “There was in the Qur’aan [an aayah which stipulated that] ten [was the number of] breastfeedings which created the relationship of mahram, then this was abrogated [by another aayah which stipulated] five. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) died and [the aayah which stipulated five] was still being recited as part of the Qur’aan.” (Reported by Muslim, 1452). In other words, the abrogation came so late that when the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) died, some people had not yet heard that this aayah had been abrogated, but when they heard that it had been abrogated, they stopped reciting it, and agreed that it should not be recited, although the ruling mentioned in the aayah remained in effect. This is an abrogation of the recitation without abrogation of the ruling, which is one type of abrogation. Having understood this, breastfeeding after the first two years does not create any relationship of mahram. This is the opinion of the majority of scholars, and among the references which they quote is the aayah cited above, along with the hadeeth of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “Nothing of breastfeeding creates the relationship of mahram except what fills the stomach to bursting point, before (the age of) weaning.” Reported by al-Tirmidhi. (No. 1152), who said: This is a hasan saheeh hadeeth. The application of this according to the scholars among the Companions of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and others is that breastfeeding does not create the relationship of mahram except when it is within the first two years, and anything after the first two whole years does not create any such relationship.”

There are some other reports from the Sahaabah, such as that narrated from Abu ‘Atiyah al-Waadi’i, who said: “A man came to Ibn Mas’ood and said: ‘My wife was with me and her breasts were full of milk (she was engorged). I began to suck it and spit it out. Then I came to Abu Moosa.’ He (Ibn Mas’ood) said, ‘What did you tell him?’ So he (Abu Moosa) told him what he had told him. Then Ibn Mas’ood stood up, took the man’s hand (and said), ‘Do you think this is an infant? Breastfeeding is what produces the growth of flesh and blood.’ Abu Moosa said: ‘Do not ask me anything when this scholar is among you.’” (Reported by ‘Abd al-Razzaaq in al-Musannaf, 7/463, no. 13895).

In al-Muwatta’ (2/603), Maalik reported that Ibn ‘Umar said: “There is no breastfeeding except for the one who is breastfed in infancy; there is no breastfeeding for one who is grown up.” Its isnaad is saheeh.

Maalik also reported in al-Muwatta’ that ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Dinar said: “A man came to ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Umar when I was with him in the court-house, asking him about breastfeeding one who is grown up. ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Umar said: ‘A man came to ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab and said, “I have a slave-girl with whom I used to have sexual relations, and my wife went to her and gave her her milk, then when I went to her, she said, ‘Stop, by Allaah I have given her my milk.’” ‘Umar said, “Punish her (your wife), and (continue to) go to your slave-girl, for (the ruling on) breastfeeding only applies to breastfeeding of infants.”’” Its isnaad is saheeh.

From this is it clear that drinking one’s wife’s milk has no effect and does not create the relationship of mahram. Ibn Qudaamah said in al-Mughni (9/201): “One of the conditions of breastfeeding creating the relationship of mahram is that it should be within the first two years. This is the opinion of most of the scholars. Something like this was narrated from ‘Umar, ‘Ali, Ibn ‘Umar, Ibn Mas’ood, Ibn ‘Abbaas, Abu Hurayrah and the wives of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), apart from ‘Aa’ishah. It was also the opinion of al-Shi’bi, Ibn Shubrumah, al-Oozaa’i, al-Shaafa’i, Ishaaq, Abu Yoosuf, Muhammad, and Abu Thawr, and was narrated in one report from Maalik.

On the basis of the above, drinking one’s wife’s milk has no effect, but it is better to avoid it.

Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen was asked about this matter, and he replied: Breastfeeding a grown-up has no effect, because the breastfeeding which has an effect (of creating the relationship of mahram) is that which consists of five feedings or more within the first two years, before weaning. On this basis, if it happened that someone breastfed from his wife or drank her milk, he does not become her son. Fataawa Islamiyah, 3/338. And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid
source:
http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ref=2864&ln=eng

jazakum allah khair
Reply

doodlebug
05-20-2007, 04:17 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
I can not find any such article in that link. The link appears to be a news line up for a News Channal out of Dubai. A broadcast Schedule, not a Fatwa.
Ok but if you scroll down you can read some of the english comments made and they are all talking about this.
Reply

doodlebug
05-20-2007, 04:18 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Makky
:sl:

There is No Fatwa like That absolutly...

To understand more about this issue read the following Fatwa



source:
http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ref=2864&ln=eng

jazakum allah khair

Thank you. That is what I understood too but then why would this place publish such a thing?:?
Reply

islamirama
05-20-2007, 04:19 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Malaikah
:sl:

Huh? Do you mean all types of breastfeeding children that are you not your own aren't allowed? Because that is contrary to what I know...

Can you clarify please. Sorry if I misunderstood.
\

:w:

By lad i meant youngsters, from 5-15 maybe. Anyone who is under 2yrs of age and is breastfed with 5 full fillings then islamically they become part of the family like blood kin. sorry if i wasn't clear.
Reply

Woodrow
05-20-2007, 04:26 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by doodlebug
Thank you. That is what I understood too but then why would this place publish such a thing?:?
Apparantly we are missing part of the story and seeing things out of context. My Arabic does leave a lot to be desired, but with my limited Arabic I can find no reference to such a Fatwa in the Arabic script. I can not say for certain that there is nothing there, but I sure can't find it.
Reply

Makky
05-20-2007, 04:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by doodlebug
Thank you. That is what I understood too but then why would this place publish such a thing?:?
Many of Monafeqeen (hypocrites and doubledealers) use to Talk about shari3a and islamic fatawa in a sarcastic way , its clear from the Title they used .
Reply

doodlebug
05-20-2007, 08:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Makky
Many of Monafeqeen (hypocrites and doubledealers) use to Talk about shari3a and islamic fatawa in a sarcastic way , its clear from the Title they used .
Thank you. That's what I needed to find out since I don't read arabic.
Reply

glo
05-30-2007, 05:37 AM
This story has now made it into the BBC site.
Seems that Dr Atiya, the cleric in question, has now retracted the fatwa, saying it had been the result of a "bad interpretation of a particular case" during the time of the Prophet Muhammad.

(I don't seem to be able to post links to BBC sites, so here's the article copied and pasted ... it's not too long ...):
Breastfeeding fatwa causes stir

One of Sunni Islam's most prestigious institutions is to discipline a cleric after he issued a decree allowing women to breastfeed their male colleagues.
Dr Izzat Atiya of Egypt's al-Azhar University said it offered a way around segregation of the sexes at work.


His fatwa stated the act would make the man symbolically related to the woman and preclude any sexual relations.

The president of al-Azhar denounced the fatwa, which Dr Atiya has since retracted, as defamatory to Islam.

According to Islamic tradition, or Hadith, breast-feeding establishes a degree of maternal relation, even if a woman nurses a child who is not biologically hers.

'Family bond'

In his fatwa, Dr Atiya, the head of al-Azhar's Department of Hadith, said such teachings could equally apply to adults.

He said that if a woman fed a male colleague "directly from her breast" at least five times they would establish a family bond and thus be allowed to be alone together at work.

"Breast feeding an adult puts an end to the problem of the private meeting, and does not ban marriage," he ruled.

"A woman at work can take off the veil or reveal her hair in front of someone whom she breastfed."

The legal ruling sparked outrage throughout Egypt and the Arab world.

On Sunday, Dr Atiya retracted it, saying it had been the result of a "bad interpretation of a particular case" during the time of the Prophet Muhammad.

Egypt's minister of religious affairs, Mahmoud Zaqzouq, has called for future fatwas to "be compatible with logic and human nature".
Peace
Reply

beespreeteam
05-30-2007, 09:35 AM
http://beespree.com/story.php?title=...eeding_fatwa-1

had this a few days ago.

i think the fact that he was suspended and ripped into by all the other scholars might mean something...
Reply

glo
05-30-2007, 09:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by beespreeteam
http://beespree.com/story.php?title=...eeding_fatwa-1

had this a few days ago.

i think the fact that he was suspended and ripped into by all the other scholars might mean something...
Thank you for the confirmation, beespreeteam.

I am glad that the scholar in question was suspended.
It raises questions about how people are deemed qualified to interpret the messages of our holy books, and how important it is for those interpretations to be scrutinised by a wider audience, or even the whole world.

Peace
Reply

Gangster No.1
05-30-2007, 10:14 AM
that is totaly outrages, that man should be hanged!
I think.lol.

seriously that is an innovation in Islam, may allah guide us all!
Reply

doodlebug
06-16-2007, 12:46 AM
Here is an article that I found on another forum. Islam definitely needs a system of controlling who gives the fatwas. I mean we have these ridiculous ones from the so called esteemed Al Ahzar and not to mention the plethura of fatwas coming from various websites that may or may not be legit.

Mufti Ali Gomaa calls for restrictions on issuing fatwas
By Yasmine Saleh
First Published: May 27, 2007
CAIRO: Ali Gomaa, Egypt's top Mufti, requested that all Islamic institutions put a unified standard to which all sheikhs in the world should adhere, when it comes to issuing fatwas, reported Al-Ahram Daily newspaper.

Gomaa made the request three days ago during a conference that brought together members of Dar El Ift (house of fatwa, religious edicts) yesterday in Kuwait.

The conference, titled "Issuing Fatwas in the Open World," is expected to run for three days, said Al-Ahram.

Gomaa himself is the author of a controversial book which claimed that Prophet Mohammed’s (PBUH) companions used to drink his urine, considering it a blessed act, as reported by Al-Masry Al-Youm newspaper.

Gomaa stuck to his position despite criticism, claiming that everything which emanated from the Prophet is pure and sacred.

“We hope that we will no longer have to see another fake and incorrect fatwa similar to those that have been released recently about breastfeeding adult men and the Prophet's Mohammed’s (PBUH) urine,” Sheikh Mohmoud Ashour, former deputy of Al Azhar and member of the Islamic Research Center, told The Daily Star Egypt.

"If implemented properly [Gomaa’s recommendation] will prevent fatwas from becoming a business not a science as it should be," Ashour said pointing to the sheikhs who appear on TV and profit from making controversial and incorrect fatwas.

"A person who issues a fatwa should be qualified to do so. He should be honest and careful with every fatwa he releases," Ashour said.

Gomaa's request came a week after Sheikh Ezzat Atiya, president of the Hadith (Prophet Mohamed’s (PBUH) Sayings) department at Al-Azhar University, issued the breastfeeding fatwa in which he had drawn on Islamic traditions which forbid sexual relations between a men and a women who had breastfed him, to suggest that symbolic breastfeeding could be a way round the strict segregation of males and females.

The resultant controversy led to an apology and withdrawal from Atiya that was followed by Al-Azhar’s decision to suspend him and refer him to a disciplinary committee.

The storm of criticism, fed by wide coverage on Arab media channels, reached all the way up to the People’s Assembly (PA) where around 50 members discussed submitting an investigative questioning, as reported by Al-Arabiya website.

The PA decided instead to give Al-Azhar a chance to retract the fatwa itself, in hopes it would divert the media attention from the issue because they felt it was detrimental to Al-Azhar and Islam’s image.
Reply

BlissfullyJaded
06-16-2007, 01:46 AM
:sl:

La hawla wa la quwatta illa billah...imsad

So called ulama who come up with such rulings wouldn't care about any boundaries that are put on giving fatwas. Real sheikhs fear Allah anyway and think very carefully before they pass fatwas.
Reply

Umu 'Isa
06-16-2007, 03:13 AM
:sl:
subhan Allaah imsad. May Allaah guide him and us alll ameen.
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-05-2007, 10:29 PM
  2. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-31-2006, 11:28 AM
  3. Replies: 26
    Last Post: 02-07-2006, 07:17 PM
British Wholesales - Certified Wholesale Linen & Towels | Holiday in the Maldives

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!