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Salama
05-20-2007, 08:36 PM
:sl:

Is it allowed to ask help from an1 other then Allah azzawajal?

This has been on mind for sometime now.

Thanks in advance!
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- Qatada -
05-20-2007, 09:43 PM
:wasalamex


Theres different types of help, if you make dua to someone [call out to] someone for a glass of water for example, then that's permissible since this persons right infront of you.


However, if you're asking for divine help (i.e. a prayer/dua) to someone who isn't there, or to someone who's passed away. Then you can't do that to anyone besides Allaah. Since it's only Allaah who is the All-Hearing, All Seeing.


It's the way of the ignorant people to pray to others along with Allaah i.e. to stone idols, to graves etc. Infact, at the time of the Prophets of Allaah, their people believed that Allaah created them, sustained them etc. but they felt they weren't pious enough to pray to Allaah so they would say that we'll pray to these idols, or to the graves of these pious people - and (they thought) because they are loved by Allaah, these things will intercede on our behalf to God for us.

But that is in a way associating partners with Allaah in worship because the people started sacrificing for idols, praying to idols, bowing to idols/graves etc. Which all the Prophets of Allaah called against.



If we look in history, we'll see that Prophet Adam was the first man on earth along with his wife. For 10 generations these people followed the true religion of God, pure monotheism and they obeyed God without associating no partners with Him.

As time progresses, the people start lacking in their faith and feel that they need to remember the pious people before them in order to remember God. So what happens? Satan comes to them and says, shall i build you statues of these people so you may remember them?


After a while these people pass away and after a few generations - satan comes to them again and says, why don't you pray to these pious people? Your forefathers did the same, these pious people will pray on your behalf to God. The people agreed, and it went to the extent that they started doing all their acts of worship to the idols/graves instead of Allaah Alone - so they changed the original religion of Prophet Adam. This is why Allaah had to send His first Messenger, Prophet Nuh [Noah] - to bring them back to the original religion of Allaah for mankind.

Tafsir of Surah Nuh - Ibn Kathir.



This is the first occasion in history when shirk (associating partners with Allaah started.)



The problem is, some people say that dua/prayer isn't worship.


The Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) said:

Indeed the supplication is the worship. [Abu Dawud, Ibn Majah, Musnad Ahmad]

Then he recited,

And your Lord said: "Call upon Me, I will answer you. Verily, those who scorn My worship they will surely enter Hell in humiliation!''. [Qur'an Ghaafir 40:60]

Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Surah Ghaafir.



Now ask anyone who prays to anyone other than their own Creator, and they will say that we know this deity never created the whole universe, but we only serve worship them so they may intercede on our behalf to God.
“And they worship besides Allaah things that harm them not, nor profit them, and they say: ‘These are our intercessors with Allaah’”

[Yoonus 10:18]


“And those who take Awliyaa’ (protectors, helpers, lords, gods) besides Him (say): ‘We worship them only that they may bring us near to Allaah’”

[al-Zumar 39:3]

Even the pagan arabs fell into the same error, yet they believed in Allaah.


As Allaah says in the Qur'an:

And if you asked them, "Who created the heavens and the earth?" they would surely say, " Allah ." Say, "Then have you considered what you invoke besides Allah ? If Allah intended me harm, are they removers of His harm; or if He intended me mercy, are they withholders of His mercy?" Say, "Sufficient for me is Allah ; upon Him [alone] rely the [wise] reliers." [Qur'an Zumar 39:38]

So to testify to Laa illaaha illAllaah doesn't just mean that there is no God but Allaah, it means that there is none worthy of worship except Allaah. And dua'/supplication for divine help is worship. So we should direct it to Allaah Almighty Alone.


And your Lord said: "Call upon Me, I will answer you. Verily, those who scorn My worship they will surely enter Hell in humiliation!''. [Qur'an Ghaafir 40:60]


And Allaah Almighty knows best.
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Salama
05-21-2007, 08:38 AM
Jazakallah for the detailed answer. Its much more clearer now.
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Snowflake
05-21-2007, 08:54 AM
Fi Bro, can you help me refute or understand this please.

I saw on another forum (also claiming to be ahle wal sunnah) that pious people and prophets are alive in their grave. And as the Quran tells muslims to make duaa for one another it's ok to visit the graves of pious people and ask them to make duaa on their behalf - since they are not dead??
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- Qatada -
05-21-2007, 10:43 AM
Originally Posted by Muslimah_Sis
Fi Bro, can you help me refute or understand this please.

I saw on another forum (also claiming to be ahle wal sunnah) that pious people and prophets are alive in their grave. And as the Quran tells muslims to make duaa for one another it's ok to visit the graves of pious people and ask them to make duaa on their behalf - since they are not dead??

:salamext:


This is a common misconception i think.


First of all, i think we've already discussed it in an earlier thread that Allaah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said:

The best of my nation is my generation then those who follow them and then those who follow them." Saheeh Bukhari


So the best 3 generations we should follow are the Salaf [the pious predecessors.] The Salaf are the Sahabah, the Tabi'een [their students and that generation], and the Tab Tabi'een [i.e. the 4 imams were from the tab tabi'een, and Imam Bukhari etc.]. And we should use them as a Criterion to judge on whether what we are doing is right.

Most of the people who claim to be Ahlus Sunnah don't usually compare their actions to the salaf, rather they quote people from later times and we know that after the best 3 generations, bid'a had become widespread within the Ummah.


Let's see what Allaah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said about people praying at graves:

Al-Bukhari and Muslim report that `Aa`ishah said: "When the Messenger of Allah (sal Allaahu alayhi waSalam) was close to death, he covered his face with a cloth, and then when it became difficult for him to breathe, he uncovered his face and said:
"May Allah (subhana wa ta'aala) curse the Jews and Christians who took the graves of their Prophets as places of worship - do not imitate them."

And, (added `Aa`ishah,) "if it had not been for this, his grave might have been raised above ground, but it was feared that it would be taken as a place of worship."

`Aa`ishah informs us in this narration that when the Prophet (sal Allaahu alayhi waSalam) was near to death and in a state of delirium, he invoked Allah's curse on the Jews and Christians because they built places of worship over the graves of their Prophets. Then `Aa`ishah explains that the Prophet (sal Allaahu alayhi waSalam) intended by this to warn his Ummah against doing what the Jews and Christians had done; and she made clear that the reason for his forbidding the Companions from burying him outside his house was to prevent them from taking his grave as a place of worship.


It is authentically reported (in Bukhari) on the authority of `Aa`ishah that Um Salamah (May Allah be pleased with them both) told the Messenger of Allah (saas ) about a church she had seen in Abyssinia in which there were pictures. The Prophet (saas ) said: "Those people, when a righteous member of their group or a pious slave (of Allah swt ) dies, they build a mosque over his grave and make images therein; by so doing, they combine two evils: (i) The evil of the graves and (ii) the evil of images."


You can look at the commentary on these ahadith from here insha Allaah:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamen...hap-18.html#f1


Like you said, some people say that the righteous people are alive so we could pray to them since they're just 'alive' anyway, right?


But again, let's see how the companions of Allaah's Messenger (peace be upon him) understood, because the people use the verse:

And do not regard those who have been killed in the cause of Allah as dead, rather are they alive with their Lord, being provided for (Quran Surah Aal Imraan 3 Verse 169).

They say that if the righteous people are pious, and so are the shuhadah - then why can't we pray to them?


The misconception is cleared by Abdullah ibn Mas'ood (a famous companion himself) who uses a hadith to explain this:

On the authority of Masruq, who said:

We asked Abdullah (i.e. Ibn Masud) about this verse: And do not regard those who have been killed in the cause of Allah as dead, rather are they alive with their Lord, being provided for (Quran Chapter 3 Verse 169).


He said: We asked about that and the Prophet (peace be upon him) said:

Their souls are in the insides of green birds having lanterns suspended from the Throne, roaming freely in Paradise where they please, then taking shelter in those lanterns. So their Lord cast a glance at them (1) and said: Do you wish for anything? They said: What shall we wish for when we roam freely in Paradise where we please? And thus did He do to them three times. When they say that they would not be spared from being asked [again], they said: O Lord, we would like for You to put back our souls into our bodies so that we might fight for Your sake once again. And when He saw that they were not in need of anything they were let be.

(1) i.e. at those who had been killed in the cause of Allah.

It was related by Muslim (also by at-Tirmidhi, an-Nasa'i and Ibn Majah).
That doesn't mean they are alive in this world, rather the shuhadah (those killed in the way of Allaah) are in the hearts of green birds in Paradise. So the term 'alive' doesn't mean they're sitting in their grave listening to all that we say, since the companions and even Allaah's Messenger explained it otherwise.


Some people say that ok, we won't pray to the pious people in the graves. But they use a hadith which states that the Prophets are worshipping Allaah in their graves, i think it's from a hadith when Allaah's Messenger (peace be upon him) went in the Night of Israa' wal Mi'raaj, and he saw Prophet Moses praying inside his own grave. (Obviously this is all of the unseen.)

So some people might use that as evidence that the Prophets are in their graves, so we can pray to them. But again, we would quote them the hadith which Allaah's Messenger himself said, when he cursed the jews and christians for taking their Prophets graves as places of worship. And we know that the Messenger of Allaah told us to stay away from their evils in every way possible. Since he spoke the truth when he said:

"Truly, you shall follow the ways of those who were before you, span by span, and cubit by cubit, until, if they were to enter a lizards lair, you would follow them." We said, "O Messenger of Allah, the Jews and Christians?" And he said, "Who else?" (Sahih al-Bukhari. 9 vols. Cairo 1313/1895. Reprint (9 vols. in 3). Beirut: Dar al-Jil, n.d., 9.126: 7320).



Anyway let's see what Allaah says in the Qur'an:





If you invoke (or call upon) them, they hear not your call, and if (in case) they were to hear, they could not grant it (your request) to you. And on the Day of Resurrection, they will disown your worshipping them. And none can inform you (O Muhammad SAW) like Him Who is the AllKnower (of each and everything). [Qur'an Al Faatir 35: 14]


So they cannot hear your call if you pray to them, but even if they could! they wouldn't be able to grant you your request. And then right after that Allaah calls it an act of worship.

But we know that sometimes people can say that you're just using a '******' translation. So i asked sister Mawaddah and she gave me a word by word translation for it alhamdulillah. You can see it here:

http://www.islamicboard.com/736007-post13.html


Just to summarise all that up, we recite a minimum of 17 times a day in Surah Fatihah (1):

Iyaa ka na'budu wa iyaa ka nasta'een. [You alone we worship, You alone we ask for help.]



And Allaah knows best.
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Snowflake
05-21-2007, 11:20 AM
JazakAllah khair bro. That was helpful.
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- Qatada -
05-21-2007, 11:41 AM
:salamext:


Also sister, if someone brings forward the argument on why the Messenger of Allaah's grave has a room around it and why its 'higher than ground level.' When this shouldn't be done for other peoples graves. We can explain it using the following points insha Allaah:


1)
We know that the Prophets are buried in the place where they pass away. He (peace be upon him) passed away in Aa'isha's room.

2)
Allaah's Messengers house was near the Masjid, and when Masjid un-Nabawi was being extended, the room of Aa'isha (may Allaah be pleased with her) was in the way.

They couldn't take the room down since 1) Aa'isha may have lived there still. or 2) People were afraid that if they take the room down, then the grave will become apparent, and it may be more harmful that way since people may come to the grave and worship it since its clearly infront of them.

So they extended the Masjid without taking the room down, and i think this is what we see today. It is the room of Aa'isha (may Allaah be pleased with her.) Which includes the graves of Allaah's Messenger (peace be upon him), Abu Bakr, and Umar (may Allaah be pleased with them.)



And Allaah knows best.
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Snowflake
05-21-2007, 11:53 AM
Nice one! Tnx bro.
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