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lilah
05-21-2007, 10:44 PM
Question: What's the fastest way to eliminate a group that speaks against you?

Answer: #1) Slip an 'al qaeda' operative into the group and the shut the entire group down because of terrorist related activity or just assasinate the leader w/out charge or trial.

Al Qaeda and terrorism are the new buzz words of the 21st century, and a really nice way for governments and countrys to silence freedom of speech.

This isn't just happening in the US... but even in 'muslim' countries. For example, in Imam Anwar Al Awlaki (lives of the prophets, the hereafter) was arrested in Yemen because of 'media reports that he had ties to 2 9/11 hijakers' http://www.saracen.nu/2006/11/06/bre...laki-detained/, yet no proof was ever given. Guilt by assumed association.

Isn't this a nice, sweet n' dandy way to silence your critics? You have a small muslim group that denounces a government for oppression and reminds us of the Laws Allah (swt) set on mankind..... a few months later, that group is shut down, leaders in custody because of 'suspicious' Al Qaeda related activity. Some ditzy blonde mentions it for 30 seconds on the evening news , hundreds of analysts affirm the threats al qaeda presents to the west, and average american joe believes every single word, after all we believe everything we read and everything we see on tv. Right?


You know what? I'll be the first to admit that I don't know 100% for sure what is going on in the world. Allah(SWT) only knows for sure what is happening to the world. I mean, there could be a handful of fanatics planning on blowing up the world somewhere. But i believe their numbers are less than what is made out to be.
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Keltoi
05-21-2007, 11:30 PM
Originally Posted by lilah
Question: What's the fastest way to eliminate a group that speaks against you?

Answer: #1) Slip an 'al qaeda' operative into the group and the shut the entire group down because of terrorist related activity or just assasinate the leader w/out charge or trial.

Al Qaeda and terrorism are the new buzz words of the 21st century, and a really nice way for governments and countrys to silence freedom of speech.

This isn't just happening in the US... but even in 'muslim' countries. For example, in Imam Anwar Al Awlaki (lives of the prophets, the hereafter) was arrested in Yemen because of 'media reports that he had ties to 2 9/11 hijakers' http://www.saracen.nu/2006/11/06/bre...laki-detained/, yet no proof was ever given. Guilt by assumed association.

Isn't this a nice, sweet n' dandy way to silence your critics? You have a small muslim group that denounces a government for oppression and reminds us of the Laws Allah (swt) set on mankind..... a few months later, that group is shut down, leaders in custody because of 'suspicious' Al Qaeda related activity. Some ditzy blonde mentions it for 30 seconds on the evening news , hundreds of analysts affirm the threats al qaeda presents to the west, and average american joe believes every single word, after all we believe everything we read and everything we see on tv. Right?


You know what? I'll be the first to admit that I don't know 100% for sure what is going on in the world. Allah(SWT) only knows for sure what is happening to the world. I mean, there could be a handful of fanatics planning on blowing up the world somewhere. But i believe their numbers are less than what is made out to be.
How many terrorists does it take to inflict serious damage on a civilian population? It took 19 Al-Qaeda terrorists to kill 3,000 people. Obviously the world has to take the threat seriously. There are instances, of course, where people use this very real threat to further their own agendas, but that doesn't mean the threat doesn't exist.
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Hawa
05-21-2007, 11:41 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
How many terrorists does it take to inflict serious damage on a civilian population? It took 19 Al-Qaeda terrorists to kill 3,000 people. Obviously the world has to take the threat seriously. There are instances, of course, where people use this very real threat to further their own agendas, but that doesn't mean the threat doesn't exist.

It took one to lead to the deaths of over 700,000 INNOCENT people. Which terrorist should you fear more?
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lilah
05-22-2007, 12:00 AM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
There are instances, of course, where people use this very real threat to further their own agendas, but that doesn't mean the threat doesn't exist.
Top Killer/Threat of Americans

#1 Cancer
#2 Obesity
#3 Heart Disease
#4 a Stroke
#5 Suicide
#6 Diabetes
#7 Aids
#8 Accidental Injuries (hit by car/ car accident/falls/slips)
#9 Old Age
#10 Natural Disaster

in other words you are more likely to die of cancer, obesity, heart attack, strock suicde, diabetes, aids, being hit by a car, being in a natural disaster, or plain or old age before you are likely to die from a terrorist attack. How many people died or were misplaced during hurricane katrina...and yet we are more worried about what a handfull of people might be doing 1/2 way across the world....

and yet, people still shiver in the corner in fear and see


additionally, the details of 9/11 are unknown including the govt's involvement/or knowlege of. yet we allow ourselves to form opinions on things we know little about.

sad, imo
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Keltoi
05-22-2007, 12:15 AM
Originally Posted by lilah
Top Killer/Threat of Americans

#1 Cancer
#2 Obesity
#3 Heart Disease
#4 a Stroke
#5 Suicide
#6 Diabetes
#7 Aids
#8 Accidental Injuries (hit by car/ car accident/falls/slips)
#9 Old Age
#10 Natural Disaster

in other words you are more likely to die of cancer, obesity, heart attack, strock suicde, diabetes, aids, being hit by a car, being in a natural disaster, or plain or old age before you are likely to die from a terrorist attack. How many people died or were misplaced during hurricane katrina...and yet we are more worried about what a handfull of people might be doing 1/2 way across the world....

and yet, people still shiver in the corner in fear and see


additionally, the details of 9/11 are unknown including the govt's involvement/or knowlege of. yet we allow ourselves to form opinions on things we know little about.

sad, imo
The expected 9-11 conspiracy drivel aside, I agree with your point about the actual threat to the average everyday citizen. However, the responsibility of a government is to provide stability and security for its citizens. The average everyday citizen isn't going to look at at event like 9-11 and say "Well, more people die of heart attacks, not a big deal". They will demand that their governments stop this kind of thing from ever happening again. That puts alot of pressure on a government to see results.

Also, I don't think the average everyday citizen is huddled in fear about anything. They know they have enemies, and they expect their government and themselves to counter that enemy.
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Keltoi
05-22-2007, 12:15 AM
Originally Posted by Hawa
It took one to lead to the deaths of over 700,000 INNOCENT people. Which terrorist should you fear more?
What "one" are you talking about?
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Hawa
05-22-2007, 01:11 AM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
What "one" are you talking about?
According to you it took 19 terrorists with instructions from someone in a cave to kill 3,000 people. According to me the man I see on tv claiming to be doing God's work, otherwise known as the leader of the free world has (albeit not singlehandedly) led to the death of over 700,000 people.
Even if you look at it from your point of view (i.e. they are sub-human compared to the Americans) and you calculate it as 3 Iraqi deaths=1 American death......your terrorist Christian fundamentalist leader has killed more people than Whosama Bin Laden.
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Joe98
05-22-2007, 02:06 AM
The Americans have not killed 700,000 people. The great bulk were killed by the Sunni / Shiite civil war.

“But…” I hear you say, Sunni and Shiia kill each other because of the US occupation.

“But…” I hear you say, the occupation is a direct result of the 9/11 attack

“But…” I hear you say, the 9/11 attack and the London attack and the Madrid attack and the Bali attacks were all a direct result of the creation of Israel.

“But…” I hear you say, the creation of Israel was the direct result of the Jewish beliefs and their holy book.

“And so…” I say, the whole thing is based on religion and thank god I’m an atheist.
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north_malaysian
05-22-2007, 02:47 AM
Originally Posted by Joe98
“And so…” I say, the whole thing is based on religion and thank god I’m an atheist.
Atheists have a God too?:exhausted
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lilah
05-22-2007, 03:06 AM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
The expected 9-11 conspiracy drivel aside, I agree with your point about the actual threat to the average everyday citizen. However, the responsibility of a government is to provide stability and security for its citizens. The average everyday citizen isn't going to look at at event like 9-11 and say "Well, more people die of heart attacks, not a big deal". They will demand that their governments stop this kind of thing from ever happening again. That puts alot of pressure on a government to see results.

Also, I don't think the average everyday citizen is huddled in fear about anything. They know they have enemies, and they expect their government and themselves to counter that enemy.

besides, that wasn't the point of my article. my point was is the use of al qaeda as a way to shut up the people.

how many people have you known in your life? how would you like to be put in jail because one of your co workers may have been a relative of somebody that worked for al qaeda, just because you may have a certain political view point, may be pro choice, or just because you may be a religous person ?
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lilah
05-22-2007, 03:08 AM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Atheists have a God too?:exhausted

only when death approaches
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Keltoi
05-22-2007, 05:10 AM
Originally Posted by lilah
besides, that wasn't the point of my article. my point was is the use of al qaeda as a way to shut up the people.

how many people have you known in your life? how would you like to be put in jail because one of your co workers may have been a relative of somebody that worked for al qaeda, just because you may have a certain political view point, may be pro choice, or just because you may be a religous person ?
Here in the states there are religious extremists who say outlandish things all the time and aren't silenced. In fact they get more air time than the average moderate.
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lilah
05-22-2007, 05:48 AM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Here in the states there are religious extremists who say outlandish things all the time and aren't silenced. In fact they get more air time than the average moderate.
waco?
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beespreeteam
05-22-2007, 07:09 AM
In Australia they can detain you for like 3-6 weeks without evidence or charge if they feel you're a terrorist LoL. So much for human rights.. just get arrested with no justification except a 'feeling'.
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beespreeteam
05-22-2007, 07:10 AM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Here in the states there are religious extremists who say outlandish things all the time and aren't silenced. In fact they get more air time than the average moderate.
that would be because those people controlling 'air time' would definitely be looking for those crazies; it fairs so much better for ratings than some boring guy telling the world how Islam isn't trying to kill everyone.
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Gangster No.1
05-22-2007, 02:58 PM
jus messin:D
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Keltoi
05-22-2007, 03:13 PM
Originally Posted by lilah
waco?
Waco? Well, stockpiling weapons and taking adolescent girls as wives is a little more than free speech.
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Gangster No.1
05-22-2007, 03:25 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Waco? Well, stockpiling weapons and taking adolescent girls as wives is a little more than free speech.
what gives you that idea?
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IbnAbdulHakim
05-22-2007, 03:26 PM
Originally Posted by Gangster No.1
what gives you that idea
bro quran tells us to invite to the way of our lord with beautiful preaching and understanding inshaAllah :)
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Keltoi
05-22-2007, 03:28 PM
Originally Posted by Gangster No.1
what gives you that idea
What exactly are you on about?
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Gangster No.1
05-22-2007, 03:33 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Waco? Well, stockpiling weapons and taking adolescent girls as wives is a little more than free speech.
you said what you just said, right? right
so what gives you that idea
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Keltoi
05-22-2007, 03:34 PM
Originally Posted by Gangster No.1
you said what you just said, right? right
so what gives you that idea
In the U.S. it is against the law to stockpile weapons and it is against the law to have sexual intercourse with a minor....so the Branch Davidians were doing a little more than practicing free speech.
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MTAFFI
05-22-2007, 03:44 PM
First off I am going to disagree that this is only a small number of people around the globe. Here is a timeline for al Qaida

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4677978/

You will notice that these people have been claiming attacks around the world, not just in the US, since 1993 (and maybe before that). It is strange to me the different views that are out there, no more than 2 weeks ago I was reading a post on this forum about how, these werent just a few little groups of people and that it was actually an extensive network that is building and preparing for an all out war with non muslims around the globe.

Seeing this post, and seeing how contradictory it is to previous posts shows how the opinions and views of Muslims are incredibly disorganized and different from place to place. I think this is the main reason that it is so hard for the average american, european, australian or otherwise to figure out what is going on. On one hand you have groups and groups of people who say we just want peace, on the other you have groups and groups of people saying that there will never be peace. The only thing here that is shared between the two is that it is only on Muslim terms that we can have peace. So how is the average person supposed to know whether there is a wolf to cry about or if it is just an old beaten dog crawling out of the woods?

In regards to this thread, "The boy who cried Al-Qaeda", I must say the author is awful naive about threats in the world today. Every week you see more people busted for plots on public areas, if we were to say, "oh these people are half way around the world and they cant touch us" we would be in the same position as we were in the pre 9/11 era, that is what we thought then. The mistake will not be made again, they wanted to be taken serious and now they are, and it is at the expense and demise of those around them, whose fault is it? Should there be no reaction to the events that have come to pass since 9/11? Should there be no reaction to the events prior to 9/11? Truth is 9/11 was the breaking point, these people have been around and commiting atrocites for decades, something must be done to show that our country will not continue to allow these attacks. I dont think this is a "Boy who cried wolf" situation, I think it is a "Wolf dressed as a sheep" situation.
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lilah
05-22-2007, 03:53 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Waco? Well, stockpiling weapons and taking adolescent girls as wives is a little more than free speech.
so much for the words 'alleged' and 'innocent until proven guilty'... these allegations were never proven and justified the FBI's unconstitional assult on american citizens.

face it, if you are a strong, smart individual with great influence to change the status quo, you will be silenced or 'offed'. examples that come to my mind in America include the death of remarkable civil rights leaders such as MLK or Malcom X, recent examples in other parts of the world include the death of that Russian Spy Alexander Litvinenko and the deportation of Anwar Al Awlaki (and eventual arrest) despite the fact that he was a born american citzen.


But now with this Al Qaeda thing, it's easy for any government around the world to take anybody they want. It's a week before the election? Let's find a video of our star Osama to scare the people into voting our way, and then we'll tell them that if they don't vote for us, they are voting for the terrorist.
Some middle easternish people are speaking some arabish language on an airplane? Lets make an example of them by having them escorted in handcuffs to airport security.... There's a strong muslim community somewhere? let's set a few of the young men up by planting an FBI agent into manipulating them into committing a crime.
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vpb
05-22-2007, 04:09 PM
“And so…” I say, the whole thing is based on religion and thank god I’m an atheist.
lollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll, it reminds me Yusuf Estes, when he said that if you throw out an atheist from the airplane, he will scream "oh my Goddddddd" ...lolllllllllll
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Keltoi
05-22-2007, 04:10 PM
Originally Posted by lilah
so much for the words 'alleged' and 'innocent until proven guilty'... these allegations were never proven and justified the FBI's unconstitional assult on american citizens.

face it, if you are a strong, smart individual with great influence to change the status quo, you will be silenced or 'offed'. examples that come to my mind in America include the death of remarkable civil rights leaders such as MLK or Malcom X, recent examples in other parts of the world include the death of that Russian Spy Alexander Litvinenko and the deportation of Anwar Al Awlaki (and eventual arrest) despite the fact that he was a born american citzen.


But now with this Al Qaeda thing, it's easy for any government around the world to take anybody they want. It's a week before the election? Let's find a video of our star Osama to scare the people into voting our way, and then we'll tell them that if they don't vote for us, they are voting for the terrorist.
Some middle easternish people are speaking some arabish language on an airplane? Lets make an example of them by having them escorted in handcuffs to airport security.... There's a strong muslim community somewhere? let's set a few of the young men up by planting an FBI agent into manipulating them into committing a crime.
Actually, the allegations against the Branch Davidians were proven. Before the assault by the ATF.
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islamirama
05-22-2007, 04:20 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
How many terrorists does it take to inflict serious damage on a civilian population? It took 19 Al-Qaeda terrorists to kill 3,000 people. Obviously the world has to take the threat seriously. There are instances, of course, where people use this very real threat to further their own agendas, but that doesn't mean the threat doesn't exist.
the verdict is still out at who is the real culprit. Ii find it intrigueing that Bush and his cronies denied any further investigations into 9-11 and ran to war right away, and also how they failed to provide proof when demanded by talebans for the crime. I"ll show you the real 19 terrorists tonight.


Originally Posted by Hawa
It took one to lead to the deaths of over 700,000 INNOCENT people. Which terrorist should you fear more?
That is in iraq alone, what about pakistan border bombing of villagers and afghan, a nation rained with bombs day and night?




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Talha777
05-22-2007, 04:28 PM
America is the greatest terrorist on the face of the Earth. The war on terror would in reality be a war against America.

America has killed many more Muslims than compared to what Muslims (or undercover CIA) have killed Americans.
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Cognescenti
05-22-2007, 04:55 PM
Originally Posted by Hawa
It took one to lead to the deaths of over 700,000 INNOCENT people. Which terrorist should you fear more?
If you are going to make up a number...why not go long...1 million has much more impact.

Based on your more "cautious" figure, that is 470 every single day for 1500 days????? :?
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MTAFFI
05-22-2007, 05:00 PM
Originally Posted by Cognescenti
If you are going to make up a number...why not go long...1 million has much more impact.

Based on your more "cautious" figure, that is 470 every single day for 1500 days????? :?
They also include the number of people that starved to death under Saddams reign on the US too. Apparently we should still trade with people and give aid to people who threaten our country with WMD... It is our fault that no one, including the foreign terrorist (al-Qaeda and so on) didnt bother to step in and stop Saddams genocides, dictatorship and stealing of oil money. They could have saved their people then and looked good, but no they wait until the US comes in and removes the guy and then blame everything on everyone else as if they are holy warriors sent from God to blow up the marketplace and teach those big bad Kuffar of the west a lesson.
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islamirama
05-22-2007, 05:19 PM
Originally Posted by Cognescenti
If you are going to make up a number...why not go long...1 million has much more impact.

Based on your more "cautious" figure, that is 470 every single day for 1500 days????? :?
If you read the news more often it was 655,000 last time it aired on tv. you can bet it's 700,000 by now considering how generous the invaders are showering the bullets indiscriminately.
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Cognescenti
05-22-2007, 05:37 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
If you read the news more often it was 655,000 last time it aired on tv. you can bet it's 700,000 by now considering how generous the invaders are showering the bullets indiscriminately.
What news is that, sir? Have you ever heard of the old American television show, Mr. Ed? It chronicled the amazing adventures of a wise-cracking, talking horse. Only recently has it come to light that the talking horse was a fake! They would feed the beast oats and when he was chewing, a human actor would do the voice-over. This revelation has caused me to be a bit more circumspect about television.


Here is an anti-American website that attempts to record casualties from any source or cause based on published news stories.

On the low end they estimate 64,000 on the high end 70,000 :omg:

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/


Remember, the figure you advance means nearly 500 every day of the war. Instead of regurgitating something that has been fed you, engage your brain..,the thinking part I mean.


PS. Here is a picture of Mr. Ed (the one on the left). I am not sure, but I have my suspicions about hsi ability to play chess either.

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islamirama
05-22-2007, 05:57 PM
Originally Posted by Cognescenti
What news is that, sir? Have you ever heard of the old American television show, Mr. Ed? It chronicled the amazing adventures of a wise-cracking, talking horse. Only recently has it come to light that the talking horse was a fake! They would feed the beast oats and when he was chewing, a human actor would do the voice-over. This revelation has caused me to be a bit more circumspect about television.


Here is an anti-American website that attempts to record casualties from any source or cause based on published news stories.

On the low end they estimate 64,000 on the high end 70,000 :omg:

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/


Remember, the figure you advance means nearly 500 every day of the war. Instead of regurgitating something that has been fed you, engage your brain..,the thinking part I mean.


PS. Here is a picture of Mr. Ed (the one on the left). I am not sure, but I have my suspicions about hsi ability to play chess either.
I couldn't help but wonder if you were talking about yourself or "mr ed" while falling half asleep reading your speal. Since your source of information seems to be the white house or your limited friends and their limited intelligence, so lets see if we can help you see a bit clear...


'655000 Iraqis killed since invasion' | Iraq | Guardian Unlimited


Study: War blamed for 655000 Iraqi deaths - CNN.com


BBC NEWS | Middle East | 'Huge rise' in Iraqi death tolls


655000 reasons to get out of Iraq now|21Oct06|Socialist Worker


ZNet |Iraq | '655000 Iraqis killed since invasion'


Why is the American press silent on the report of 655000 Iraqi deaths?


I stand by the figure that a lot of innocent people have lost their life... and that troubles me, and it grieves me.
(but it won't stop him from killing more, btw saddam allegedly killed 250,000 in 20yrs compared to what this moron did in 3yrs)
President George W Bush

and lets see what the polls say...

Poll results on Impeach Bush
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MTAFFI
05-22-2007, 06:39 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
I couldn't help but wonder if you were talking about yourself or "mr ed" while falling half asleep reading your speal. Since your source of information seems to be the white house or your limited friends and their limited intelligence, so lets see if we can help you see a bit clear...


'655000 Iraqis killed since invasion' | Iraq | Guardian Unlimited


Study: War blamed for 655000 Iraqi deaths - CNN.com


BBC NEWS | Middle East | 'Huge rise' in Iraqi death tolls


655000 reasons to get out of Iraq now|21Oct06|Socialist Worker


ZNet |Iraq | '655000 Iraqis killed since invasion'


Why is the American press silent on the report of 655000 Iraqi deaths?


I stand by the figure that a lot of innocent people have lost their life... and that troubles me, and it grieves me.
(but it won't stop him from killing more, btw saddam allegedly killed 250,000 in 20yrs compared to what this moron did in 3yrs)
President George W Bush

and lets see what the polls say...

Poll results on Impeach Bush

Each of those links is a report on the same exact survey, all from the same study. There have been many many many other studies that have found a far lower figure. Also lets not forget that the insurgents kill far more civilians per day than US soldiers. You are making it out to be Bush's fault that the insurgents cant quit blowing up markets and schools. Perhaps this figure is true, perhaps it is not, there is certainly enough other studies to debunk this one, however either way it is not Bush's fault the insurgents act as they do and for you to claim that he has taken each of these lives is preposterous and misleading. Again you show how you only look with one eye, one survey, one set of opinions
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islamirama
05-22-2007, 06:43 PM
Originally Posted by MTAFFI
Each of those links is a report on the same exact survey, all from the same study. There have been many many many other studies that have found a far lower figure. Also lets not forget that the insurgents kill far more civilians per day than US soldiers. You are making it out to be Bush's fault that the insurgents cant quit blowing up markets and schools. Perhaps this figure is true, perhaps it is not, there is certainly enough other studies to debunk this one, however either way it is not Bush's fault the insurgents act as they do and for you to claim that he has taken each of these lives is preposterous and misleading. Again you show how you only look with one eye, one survey, one set of opinions
Each of those reports reported by different outlet shows the validity of it, and of course you may be able to find some trash by DC to debunk it even when the sites given there are quite reputable.

The "insurgents" are freedom fighters, who are fighting an army that invaded that land and is occupying it. By international law they have every right to fight an occupying force and also the statements of UK General also stated they have the right to fight. It is you and your arrogrant gov't that think you are right and anyone who does not agree is labled a "terrorist". I think we all know the real world leader terrorist here.
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MTAFFI
05-22-2007, 06:53 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
Each of those reports reported by different outlet shows the validity of it, and of course you may be able to find some trash by DC to debunk it even when the sites given there are quite reputable.
OK so by that logic if multiple big news agencies report it, it must be true....lol.. you just ruined yourself, how about these same sources, calling your beloved conspiracy theories trash, and the people making them up "crack pots", not to mention the fact that these same sources have also posted the figures that cogenscenti gave you. How about the daily news they publish on Insurgents killing civilians? That all also must be true, since they all report it right?? Or is that only the case when it suits you? LOL
http://icasualties.org/oif/ <-- Search around this page, you will find plenty of info on Iraq here

Originally Posted by islamirama
The "insurgents" are freedom fighters, who are fighting an army that invaded that land and is occupying it. By international law they have every right to fight an occupying force and also the statements of UK General also stated they have the right to fight. It is you and your arrogrant gov't that think you are right and anyone who does not agree is labled a "terrorist". I think we all know the real world leader terrorist here.
The insurgents arent freedom fighters, the thought is laughable.. If they are such freedom fighters, then where were they when Saddam was ruling, mercilessly for decades? Where were they then? They came not to free anyone, they came because they see an opening to take over a country and its assests. If they cared about the Iraqi people, they wouldnt have killed a single woman, child or Iraqi citizen. It is pretty easy to identify an american soldier in Iraq, it isnt near as easy to identify an insurgent in Iraq, but yet the Americans have stilled killed far less civilians... Why is that do you think? Not because the insurgents are fighting for the Iraqis, I can tell you that.

I think that the IRAQIS have the right to fight the Americans if they do not want them in their land, I also think they should have the right to vote without the worry of a suicide bomb blowing them up, or go to the market without the fear of death. You act as if these problems and the chaos are caused by the US, if it werent for these power hungry, war mongering groups, the US would already be long gone.
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Philosopher
05-22-2007, 06:59 PM
"I can imagine no greater misfortune for a cultured people than to see in the hands of the rulers not only the civil, but also the religious power. --Caius

To fill a world with ... religions of the Abrahamic kind, is like littering the streets with loaded guns. Do not be surprised if they are used.
- Richard Dawkins
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vpb
05-22-2007, 07:01 PM
Al Qur'an, Surah Al-Baqara (The Cow), Verse 11

"And when it is said unto them: Make not mischief in the earth, they say: We are peacemakers only."

Subhanallah, this is what Allah swt tells us to be careful from people who pretend to be peacemakers, and actually they are the real terrorists.

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islamirama
05-22-2007, 07:03 PM
Originally Posted by MTAFFI
The insurgents arent freedom fighters, the thought is laughable.. If they are such freedom fighters, then where were they when Saddam was ruling, mercilessly for decades? Where were they then? They came not to free anyone, they came because they see an opening to take over a country and its assests. If they cared about the Iraqi people, they wouldnt have killed a single woman, child or Iraqi citizen. It is pretty easy to identify an american soldier in Iraq, it isnt near as easy to identify an insurgent in Iraq, but yet the Americans have stilled killed far less civilians... Why is that do you think? Not because the insurgents are fighting for the Iraqis, I can tell you that.

I think that the IRAQIS have the right to fight the Americans if they do not want them in their land, I also think they should have the right to vote without the worry of a suicide bomb blowing them up, or go to the market without the fear of death. You act as if these problems and the chaos are caused by the US, if it werent for these power hungry, war mongering groups, the US would already be long gone.
Al-qaeda was a hero and so was OBL when they fought the russians and drove them out of afghan. He was US friend but a terrorist insurgent for the russians. But now he is fighting another occupation (YOURS), he is a terrorist insurgent. How stupid do you think we are, all of you are invaders who invade and occupy muslim lands. We don't want your demon-cracy and captialism and we will fight you for our freedom. Call yourself what you want but the the nation you occupy, you are thier oppressor and the terrorist, not the liberator your leaders claim. So you can take your neo-con thoughts and share them with your blind neo-con friends else where cuz we're not buying it here.
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islamirama
05-22-2007, 07:06 PM
Originally Posted by vpb
Al Qur'an, Surah Al-Baqara (The Cow), Verse 11

"And when it is said unto them: Make not mischief in the earth, they say: We are peacemakers only."

Subhanallah, this is what Allah swt tells us to be careful from people who pretend to be peacemakers, and actually they are the real terrorists.

got that right, we know exactly what these kuffars are upto. They can fool the world or so they think but inshallah not us and we will fight to the end to expel them from our lands. They are getting vietnam style whopping but i guess they need "hawk down" style the way our somali brothers did to their pilot. :thumbs_up
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Cognescenti
05-22-2007, 07:09 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
I couldn't help but wonder if you were talking about yourself or "mr ed" while falling half asleep reading your speal. ....
I don't really expect you to be well versed in Yiddish :) ...but since you brought it up, it is generally spelled "spiel" (sometimes "schpiel")

I imagine your links refer to the Lancet study, which was a political document and has been so admitted to be by its lead author. This is a rather curious admission considering it was published under the pretense of being an unbiased scientific inquiry.

I would ask you again, where are the reports of the 500 people a day for every single day of the war? I don't really expect an answer, that would take chutzpah, but you could try a schlocky misdirection effort by schmearing Bush and calling him a schlub or a schmo.
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MTAFFI
05-22-2007, 07:09 PM
Originally Posted by Philosopher

To fill a world with ... religions of the Abrahamic kind, is like littering the streets with loaded guns. Do not be surprised if they are used.
- Richard Dawkins
Is Abraham not mentioned in the Quran as well???
Reply

Cognescenti
05-22-2007, 07:13 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
got that right, we know exactly what these kuffars are upto. They can fool the world or so they think but inshallah not us and we will fight to the end to expel them from our lands. They are getting vietnam style whopping but i guess they need "hawk down" style the way our somali brothers did to their pilot. :thumbs_up

We? Very courageous of you to be posting such machismo from the den of your parent's home. Why don't you run upstairs and see if there are any Dove bars in the freezer?
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Philosopher
05-22-2007, 07:15 PM
Originally Posted by MTAFFI
Is Abraham not mentioned in the Quran as well???
A very barbaric man indeed. He would be a criminal why today's standards.
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MTAFFI
05-22-2007, 07:16 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
Al-qaeda was a hero and so was OBL when they fought the russians and drove them out of afghan. He was US friend but a terrorist insurgent for the russians. But now he is fighting another occupation (YOURS), he is a terrorist insurgent. How stupid do you think we are, all of you are invaders who invade and occupy muslim lands. We don't want your demon-cracy and captialism and we will fight you for our freedom. Call yourself what you want but the the nation you occupy, you are thier oppressor and the terrorist, not the liberator your leaders claim. So you can take your neo-con thoughts and share them with your blind neo-con friends else where cuz we're not buying it here.
yeah whatever, did you answer or say anything about my post? I didnt think so just a typical diversion from an even more typical moron. Tell me, do you know why OBL attacked the US? I will tell you, because an Arab government requested US assistance and the US obliged, OBL was expelled from his land and hated the US ever since. He helped to defend Afghan from the Russians, he wasnt an enemy to the US then since the US also disliked the Russians. What is your point? I am sure he didnt call the US an enemy then either did he? I didnt think so since he gladly accepted our weapons and intelligence. Again I will say the insurgents are responsible for the deaths in Iraq (or at least the majority) Again I will ask you where was OBL when Saddam was reigning? Where was Al-Qaeda in Iraq then? Or the Islamic state of Iraq? Or any other power hungry war mongering, ethnocentric, hide under a rock peice of garbage? No answer, huh, well I can understand that since you are just a little runt who has now clue what he is talking about and only spews what his extremist, conspiracy believing parents probably have to say.
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islamirama
05-22-2007, 07:16 PM
Originally Posted by Cognescenti
We? Very courageous of you to be posting such machismo from the den of your parent's home. Why don't you run upstairs and see if there are any Dove bars in the freezer?
very smart of you to know so accuratey my private life. Now go upstair from your mommy's basement for some cookies then come tell us why you resorted to attack me rather then admit your ignorance after i disapproved your lies of how many died.
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islamirama
05-22-2007, 07:24 PM
Originally Posted by MTAFFI
yeah whatever, did you answer or say anything about my post? I didnt think so just a typical diversion from an even more typical moron. Tell me, do you know why OBL attacked the US? I will tell you, because an Arab government requested US assistance and the US obliged, OBL was expelled from his land and hated the US ever since. He helped to defend Afghan from the Russians, he wasnt an enemy to the US then since the US also disliked the Russians. What is your point? I am sure he didnt call the US an enemy then either did he? I didnt think so since he gladly accepted our weapons and intelligence. Again I will say the insurgents are responsible for the deaths in Iraq (or at least the majority) Again I will ask you where was OBL when Saddam was reigning? Where was Al-Qaeda in Iraq then? Or the Islamic state of Iraq? Or any other power hungry war mongering, ethnocentric, hide under a rock peice of garbage? No answer, huh, well I can understand that since you are just a little runt who has now clue what he is talking about and only spews what his extremist, conspiracy believing parents probably have to say.
US has military base in OBL lands, he wants them out and that is why he started a war with you cuz wont' get out of his land. As for the kings, they are either US puppets or greedy tyrants being protected by US in exchange for the resources they give the greedy US.

OBL is a milliionaire if not a billionaire, he didn't need your money then and sure doesn't need them now. Insuregents are your former sodliers of saddam, local citizens and muslims from other lands who have come to help get rid the land of this oppressive regime that occupies it.

So only power hungry ethnocentric filthy trash around here is the US that leeches off of other lands and wages illegal wars when this parasite can't have it its way.

And as for your personal attacks against me, you have been reported for your bigotary. I could take my gloves off too but i rather prefer that in the person so i can skin you alive and see if you have a spine or as you pretend to show one on here.
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Zman
05-22-2007, 07:28 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
How many terrorists does it take to inflict serious damage on a civilian population? It took 19 Al-Qaeda terrorists to kill 3,000 people.

How many cruise missiles does it take out a city block?

Two nuclear bombs, took out 2 Japanese cities.

One cluster bomb can damage an area the size of a football field (American/NFL)

One nuclear missile armed with 6 warheads, can take out a large portion of 6 cities.

1 B-52 plane, can level an area that's 3 miles long, by 1/2 mile wide.

How many Iraqi civilians did we kill in our Shock & Awe?

Obviously the world has to take the threat seriously.

Obviously, the world must concentrate more on state-sponsored terrorism. It has more resources at it's disposal. It's more deadly & destructive.

Terrorism is the tactic of the weak and oppressed masses.

War is terrorism by the strong and powerful.

It's amazing how some people attempt to make a car bomb or suicide vest to be more deadly than the WMD's that have been used by some Western powers & Russia...
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islamirama
05-22-2007, 07:29 PM
Liars Inc.
by Frank Scott
(Tuesday, May 22, 2007)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"It isn’t just the blood lusting loonies in our government, or the crackpot Israeli supremacists who must concern us. Our major problem is that we’re being fed this steady diet of indigestible mind food, much of it poisonous, with little scrutiny of the items offered on our news menu, or the sanity and motivation of its preparers. When leaders of the opposition party carefully mince their words on foreign policy so that they will allow the president to obliterate Iran only after he gets their approval, we are looking at a pending disaster. And one that has drawn deafening silence from those who would be expected to oppose such madness."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The atrocity in Iraq began on the basis of lies, and continues with even bigger lies. We were supposed to have invaded because it had WMDs, or its leader was a threat to the world, or it harbored the 911 attackers, or simply because the only decent thing to do for our friends in Israel was to war their enemies. But the near total destruction of that nation has not satisfied the fanatic lust that motivates our policy, and so newer and bigger lies are being perpetrated about how we need to keep killing people until such time as they are able to control their own state, which we destroyed. As if this assault on collective consciousness was not enough, even more malevolent lies are being spread about another supposed threat.

Along with daily items alleging that Iran is rushing toward nuclear weaponry, none of them having any foundation in the material world, came this recent quote from the Mother Theresa of the Holocaust Industry, speaking about the Iranian president:

"When he says he wants nuclear weapons to destroy the state of Israel, I must believe him... How is it possible for the leader of a nation to say that and not to be isolated by the civilized world?''

Given the outrageous attack on logic and truth in that incredible remark, how is it possible for anyone to believe anything that Elie Weisel has ever said? This writer offers a cash reward to anyone who can find such words ever being uttered by Ahmadinejad. A further award will be made for clearly defining what The Weisel refers to as “the civilized world”. Is that the one, which invaded Iraq, or is it the one resisting that invasion? Cash amount will depend on the reliability of sources and consistency of reasoning applied, in conformity with what passes for reliability and reason, in the civilized world.

The Weisel’s gift for selling fiction as fact has made him more famous than Paris Hilton. But though this particularly flagrant lie may seem beyond the usual excess in his pursuit of profit by peddling his endless suffering, it merely serves as an example of everyday product in what passes for news reporting. And when no less a renowned fabricator than Eli Weisel can add his lies to the encyclopedic number going around about Iran, and encounter hardly any criticism for telling them, we may be getting closer to another international disaster.

It isn’t just the blood lusting loonies in our government, or the crackpot Israeli supremacists who must concern us. Our major problem is that we’re being fed this steady diet of indigestible mind food, much of it poisonous, with little scrutiny of the items offered on our news menu, or the sanity and motivation of its preparers. When leaders of the opposition party carefully mince their words on foreign policy so that they will allow the president to obliterate Iran only after he gets their approval, we are looking at a pending disaster. And one that has drawn deafening silence from those who would be expected to oppose such madness.

What passes for the progressive wing of the opposition makes only the most cautious criticism of the Israeli lobby, which has for years been beating the drums for obliterating what it sees as a menace from Iran. The menace is for Israel, not the USA, which was also the case with Iraq. But the consumers of this junk food diet of fiction have been led to believe that it is actually the USA that needs protection. How many more poisonous lies do we have to swallow before we become violently ill?

Separating truth from lies is not the job of our mass media. It is joined at the hip to our government, which is locked in a passionate embrace with corporate capital, in a perverse menage a trois that threatens to bring forth ever more mentally disabled offspring. What this unholy alliance does to our social and natural environments is matched by its endless attack on our internal system, especially our capacity to think.

The officially sanctioned opposition party uses polls and focus groups to measure the extent of public disgust with present policy in Iraq, then boldly strides forward with promises to change things, slightly, in a little while, like, after the next election. It’s general staff manipulates mass consciousness more than it has already been twisted, so that it will seem as though things will be better with a different set of gangsters directing the crime syndicate.

The only hope is that more of the citizenry is questioning not only our mass murdering regime, but also its running dog opposition. Even in its rush to maintain mind control of the masses, our ruling caste encounters more difficulty every day, because there are so many anti-establishment channels of information now available. While still a minority, more people are not accepting or even consulting the menu of fantasy and irrationality provided by the forces that feed us so much indigestible nonsense.

The lies will not soon stop, but critical views of the material world are available, and even with access to them still falling to only a minority, the days of getting away with the kind of murderous deceit embodied in the quote from Weisel should be numbered. Given the speed with which we seem to be poisoning our food supply and attacking the rest of our natural environment, coming to grips with the vicious distortions and lies that fill our minds may be a more urgent task than ever. Gaining control of what goes into our heads will be necessary before we can assume any kind of democratic nation, or world.


http://world.mediamonitors.net/
Reply

Zman
05-22-2007, 07:31 PM
Originally Posted by north_malaysian
Atheists have a God too?:exhausted
:sl:
LOL...Good catch, brother...
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Philosopher
05-22-2007, 07:38 PM
You idiots. Stop this useless argument inspired by intolerance from pre-Medieval dogmas.

Humanity needs to live in peace and the only way they can do that is by being rational.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-22-2007, 07:44 PM
^^Who you talking too? No name calling needed.
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MTAFFI
05-22-2007, 07:50 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
US has military base in OBL lands, he wants them out and that is why he started a war with you cuz wont' get out of his land. As for the kings, they are either US puppets or greedy tyrants being protected by US in exchange for the resources they give the greedy US.
Funny I didnt know the OBL was Saudi Arabias spokeman, oh yeah that is right HE ISNT. In fact his citizenship has been revoked there...lol. Again you are wrong, again you are ignorant, again you are redundant, I am starting to think you are an automated anti western propoganda machine....101001110101010...beep

Originally Posted by islamirama
OBL is a milliionaire if not a billionaire, he didn't need your money then and sure doesn't need them now. Insuregents are your former sodliers of saddam, local citizens and muslims from other lands who have come to help get rid the land of this oppressive regime that occupies it.
So you believe the former soldiers of Saddam are looking out for the Iraqis and their best interest? lol 1101101010101.. beep

Originally Posted by islamirama
So only power hungry ethnocentric filthy trash around here is the US that leeches off of other lands and wages illegal wars when this parasite can't have it its way.
What have we leeched off in the middle east? Gas is higher than it has ever been, oil prices, higher than ever, what have we benefited, other than removing a tyrant? Nothing
Originally Posted by islamirama
And as for your personal attacks against me, you have been reported for your bigotary. I could take my gloves off too but i rather prefer that in the person so i can skin you alive and see if you have a spine or as you pretend to show one on here.
You wont find bigotry in my post, perhaps you are looking at your own, many of your post exhibit the bigotry you speak of, so go ahead report away. By the way please do come to skin me, you will find a long gravel road with plenty of security and long barrels at the end of it :) PLEASE BE MY GUEST
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Cognescenti
05-22-2007, 08:01 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
very smart of you to know so accuratey my private life. Now go upstair from your mommy's basement for some cookies then come tell us why you resorted to attack me rather then admit your ignorance after i disapproved your lies of how many died.
I think you mean "disproved".

Friend, if you care to debate the statistical and methodological shortcomings, (or even the possible professional malpractice of the author) of the 2004 Lancet study, I will be happy to do that, but you will have to be able to understand statistics and the concept of forming a cohesive argument on your own and not simply relying on the "I'm right because <insert 18 links to websites here>" technique.
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Cognescenti
05-22-2007, 08:06 PM
Originally Posted by Jazzy
^^Who you talking too? No name calling needed.
Name calling isn't 1/10th of the problem, here. I would say the blind, irremediable hatred is the biggest hurdle (not referring to you, of course).
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aamirsaab
05-22-2007, 10:02 PM
:sl:
Breathing exercise number 3: Chillaxing

Method: Stop posting on this thread.

Expected result: No migraines. Healthier children. Removal of strange odours.
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