Bismillahi Arrahmani Arraheem
(In the Name of Allah; the Most Beneficient; the Most Merciful)
Alhamdulillah, this is my 300th post, so by the grace of Allah, I hope to make it a worthy one. Satan is constantly trying to lead astray the Believers, he injects poisonous doctrines to confuse us about the most fundamental and essential belief of all - the absolutely Oneness and Unity of God Almighty. The Oneness of Allah is so important to understand and believe in, and any belief or practice which in the very least derails or degrades this unity is clear and manifest idolatry. Idolatry in turn is the root of sin, the root of man's transgression:
For ye do worship idols besides Allah, and ye invent falsehood. The things that ye worship besides Allah have no power to give you sustenance: then seek ye sustenance from Allah, serve Him, and be grateful to Him: to Him will be your return. (Al-Ankabut 29:17)
The trinity is another transgression against the absolute and perfect Oneness of Allah. Like all false and satanic doctrines, it makes no sense and is completely illogical. So compare what Allah teaches and makes clear with that which Satan tries to deceive man, and you will see that Truth prevails, but falsehood always suffers defeat and shatters to pieces. May Allah Taala grant victory to the Believers, and may He destroy Christianity. Ameen.
In response to GraceSeeker:
format_quote Originally Posted by GraceSeeker
Every time that the title "Son of God" (or "Son of Man" for that matter) is used it is being used metaphorically. But what is the metaphor? Someitmes it is simply to say that we are children of God, brothers and sisters in the family of God. But not every time. And when Jesus uses it in this case, the grammatical construction of the Greek that John tells the story in, indicates that Jesus was saying that he was the Son of God in exactly the sense that Muslims say that he never would have said. So your best argument is that Jesus never actually said those words. Either that this was an invention of another who didn't know -- except that it was written down by John, one who has among the closest companions of Jesus -- or you can claim that since Jesus probably spoke in Aramaic and John wrote in Greek that we can't know exactly what he said. But again, John is the one who wrote it down, and if Jesus had meant it to be understood differently could have chosen a different way to express what Jesus says. So, John wants us also to understand that Jesus was indeed claiming to be God's unique son. Not just one of many, like all other humans, but the unique one belonging to the Father, because he comes from the Father.
Argue that you don't believe it to be true all you want. Argue that someone later changed it after John wrote it. But that is THE Jesus that is presented to us in John's gospel over and over again. If you don't see it, don't say that it isn't there, just admit that you are blind.
Yes, it is true we Muslims don't care for the writings and postulations of this John. Not to speak of the rest of the New Testament, we don't even care for the four so called "Gospels". The Holy Quran says we believe in the real and true Gospel of Jesus Christ (alaihi salaam), not Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John. Furthermore, even the quotes and words of Jesus in these four "gospels" are not completely reliable, as you have correctly pointed out, they are Greek translations of his teachings in Aramaic, which adds further doubt and skepticism to their authenticity.
Nevertheless, my original challenge is very fair to you, in fact you have the advantage in it. I as a Muslim don't even believe in your New Testament, yet I have asked you to show me even one verse in your entire Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, which perspicuously states that Jesus is The God (capital G), and is one and the same as the "Father". This challenge still stands, and you have failed miserably to even address it. It seems you are reluctant to take on this challenge. No doubt, it is a very fair and honest challenge. You believe Jesus is God, that he is the same God as his "Father", the One and Only true God. You believe this to be your concept of the "trinity". Obviously such a strange and unique belief must be substantiated by the Bible which you believe in. Yet many of us Muslims are surprised that such a fundamental belief of your is not at all clearly spelled out in your scripture. In fact, I will clearly show you with many proofs and passages from your Bible that Jesus is a distinct and separate "deity" from "God the Father". I have already quoted many verses to this effect, which you completely ignored, nevertheless I will quote many new verses.
Now you are saying something that the Greek grammatical construct of John's writings prove that Jesus is God, in an altogether different sense than what Psalm 82 says about the Israelites: Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods' (John 10:34)
Please explain who these "gods" are, and why Jesus quoted this Psalm to justify his claim that he and the father are one (John 10:30). Upon hearing this claim of Jesus, his enemies began to stone him, accusing him of blasphemy. Now if Jesus really is God, the One and Only, he wouldn't have tried to justify himself or clarify what he meant, he would have simply said: "Yes I'm God, live with it" or something to that effect. Instead, we clearly see that Jesus clarified the nature of his claim by quoting Pslam 82. Until and unless you address this, you cannot use John 10:30 as proof that Jesus is God, one and the same with the "Father". You are talking about Greek grammatical construct, but you have yet to explain this grammar, so please do so.
But since we are on the subject of Greek grammar and John, let me point you and my Muslim brothers to the infamous John 1:1:
εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογος
Here is the literal English rendering: In beginning) was the word, and the word was with the God, and a god was the word
Notice two different Greek words are used, one for "the God", and the other for the "Word", which is called as "a god". It will also interest you and my Muslim brothers that John 1:1 is a plagiarization on the ideas of the ancient Jewish philosopher Philo, who predated both Jesus and John, who came up with the concept of logos (word).
try 1 John 5:20 -- "We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He [which refers to Jesus as the immediate antecedent for the pronoun] is the true God and eternal life."
Again you will have to explain it in Greek grammar, because the English grammar of the translation you are giving is pretty ambiguous. He can refer to God or the "son of God" (Jesus). If you examine the verse, however, it is yet another proof that Jesus is clearly distinct from the "Father", and the two are completely separate gods (if he is referring to Jesus, which is debatable).
"And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ"
His is the pronoun referring to God, another clear proof that the Son is not the same as God (or Father), because "his" is possessive, and the "son" is the possession.
And no matter how many verses in the New Testament you come up with which you think shows that God is one, you cannot overlook the fact that Jesus is never called as God (The God) in the Bible. On the contrary, the New Testament makes a clear distinction between Jesus as "Lord" and the Father as the only one "God":
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him (1 Corinthians 8:6)
The concept of trinity is the each person (Father, son, holy spirit) is God, but this verse clearly refutes such a falsehood by unequivocally proclaiming that only the “Father” is God.
Finally, I had suggested to you two verses from the New Testament that you might want to use to prove your case that Jesus is the same God as the Father, that they are one and the same. For some reason, however, you did not take my suggestion, but nevertheless I would like to talk about those verses, because the Muslims might become curious about them:
No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known (John 1:18)
This wording of this verse does indeed prove that Jesus, who is mentioned as being at the Father's side, is "God the One and Only". However, this verse seems to be an interpolation/fabrication. Different manuscripts have an alternative wording to the phrase "God the One and Only", which is the "only Son" and not one and only God. The fact that a formula of Christology in the New Testament seems to have been interpolated, and that different manuscripts have different wordings which completely alter the meaning, having completely different implications for Christian belief tells me that the Holy Spirit did not inspire the New Testament.
The other verse says: I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one. (John 17:11)
Jesus says that he and is father are one, but compares that unity to the unity of different individual disciples, which again shows that this is a metaphorical unity Jesus is talking about, as he was evidently talking about in John 10:30. Furthermore, if you read the rest of John chapter 17, you will see how Jesus compares his relationship with God with the relationship amongst the disciples:
They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified. My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world. "Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them." (John 17:16-26)
This whole passage, which is ironically authored by John (or attributed to him), basically proves that whenever Jesus has been speaking about his Father as being one with him, or that he is in the father and the father is in him, he was saying it in a metaphorical sense. Similarly, Jesus compares him being sent by the Father to him personally sending out his disciples. And what did Jesus send his disciples to do? To share the good news of his gospel, his teachings and revelations from God. Similarly, God sent Jesus to share the message which He revealed to him. And regarding Jesus being the "Son of God", you claim this is a literal description of him, that he was truly "begotten" by the Father, and for others it is a metaphorical description but they are not begotten or born of the Father like Jesus. However, as usual, the Bible proves you wrong:
Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God. Children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God. (John 1:12-13)
So in the end I pray that may Allah Taala help the misguided to see the Light and the Truth, to identify the Seal of Prophets whom He has sent as a Giver of Glad Tidings and a Warner, Hazrat Muhammad Mustafa (Sallallahu alaihi wa salaam). May they accept him, and may they believe in the Final Testament the Holy Quran, wherein Allah Taala says:
They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them. (Al-Maidah 5:73)