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Keltoi
05-22-2007, 07:04 PM
I found this interesting. Not really surprising, as I always assumed American Muslims were more comfortable than European Muslims, but still interesting.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070522/...slim_americans
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Amadeus85
05-23-2007, 10:03 PM
Council on American-Islamic Relations: "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth." -Omar Ahmad Addressing a youth session at the 1999 Islamic Association for Palestine's annual convention in Chicago, CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations) founder Omar Ahmad praised suicide bombers who "kill themselves for Islam"

And lets not foget that 80% of US mosques are controlled by Saudis.
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Keltoi
05-23-2007, 10:10 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
Council on American-Islamic Relations: "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth." -Omar Ahmad Addressing a youth session at the 1999 Islamic Association for Palestine's annual convention in Chicago, CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations) founder Omar Ahmad praised suicide bombers who "kill themselves for Islam"

And lets not foget that 80% of US mosques are controlled by Saudis.
The survey points out that the vast majority of American Muslims do not believe that suicide terrorism is justified by the Qu'ran. The only alarming statistic was the 10%(I believe) of American Muslim youth who seemed to believe that suicide terrorism was justified.
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Amadeus85
05-23-2007, 10:13 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
The survey points out that the vast majority of American Muslims do not believe that suicide terrorism is justified by the Qu'ran. The only alarming statistic was the 10%(I believe) of American Muslim youth who seemed to believe that suicide terrorism was justified.
Not 10 % but 25 %.
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Keltoi
05-23-2007, 10:34 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
Not 10 % but 25 %.
Was it 25%? Well, that is more alarming that the percentage I had in mind. Oh well, youth are youth and aren't usually thinking in realistic terms. As long as they only talk I won't worry about it.
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Erundur
05-24-2007, 12:17 AM
adults above 30 had a 82% negative reaction towards suicide bombings, I'm liking those numbers. Hopefully it will increase.
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wilberhum
05-24-2007, 01:18 AM
Originally Posted by Erundur
adults above 30 had a 82% negative reaction towards suicide bombings, I'm liking those numbers. Hopefully it will increase.
Now I think it is really scarry that 18% don't have a negative reaction. :raging:
I guess that would be about 450 thousand. :?
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Philosopher
05-24-2007, 01:26 AM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Now I think it is really scarry that 18% don't have a negative reaction. :raging:
I guess that would be about 450 thousand. :?
Well, that's also considering the fact that 40% of Americans are against Muslims living in America.
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wilberhum
05-24-2007, 01:28 AM
Originally Posted by Philosopher
Well, that's also considering the fact that 40% of Americans are against Muslims living in America.
Source of that information?

89.3% of all stats are made up on the moment. :skeleton:
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Philosopher
05-24-2007, 02:07 AM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Source of that information?

89.3% of all stats are made up on the moment. :skeleton:
It was a poll by Pew Research.
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Erundur
05-24-2007, 02:41 AM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Now I think it is really scarry that 18% don't have a negative reaction. :raging:
I guess that would be about 450 thousand. :?
That's why I'm hoping that it will increase, no to suicide.
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wilberhum
05-24-2007, 02:58 AM
Originally Posted by Philosopher
It was a poll by Pew Research.
Got a link? Not just to Pew in general, but to your 40%?
It could be true, but surly I would have met one.
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lilah
05-24-2007, 08:03 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
I found this interesting. Not really surprising, as I always assumed American Muslims were more comfortable than European Muslims, but still interesting.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070522/...slim_americans
this survey means absolutely nothing and is just anti islamic propaganda. i guess the article got more clicks for the headline 'Some US Muslims Say Suicide Attacks OK' as opposed to 'A majority of US Muslims oppose suicide attacks.' which just as truthful

i especially liked the little blurb at the end of the article

Telephone interviews were conducted with 1,050 Muslim adults from January through April, including in Arabic, Urdu and Farsi. Subjects were chosen at random, from a separate list of households including some with Muslim-sounding names, and from Muslim households that had answered previous surveys.
'hey bob, does salma hayek sound muslim to you?'
'uh, sure... why not...what about 'Paula Abdul'?...that sounds like a US muslim name...'

John Stewart....that sounds like a christian name! ;D

honestly...they didn't even go to a masjid!

surveys can be designed in a way to obtain a certain result... ie,

'how many times do you beat your dog? 1) rarely 2) sometimes 3)frequently'
all of those answers would have you saying that you beat your dog, even if you don't'

'fill in the blank
It's ok to beat the dog.... 1) only after a long day from work 2) to shut him up at night 3) when my favorite football team loses

but hey...it was in the news, i'm not shocked that most americans bought into it. we believe everything we read see and hear, without question...unless it's about global warning, and the need for conservation....then it's all a 'bunch of leftist fear mongering'...the things people want to believe...they will, and the things they don't...they don't
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lilah
05-24-2007, 08:13 PM
And it's such a small samplng of people, a thousand people? so out of roughly a thousand people only 100 justified it? what's the crime statistics in the US? at least 1 in ever 136 americans are in JAIL FOR CRIMES THEY ALREADY COMMITTED.... and 1 in every 32 americans are under correctional supervision.

it's funny how those statistics don't mention religon at all in the numbers....criminals are just that criminals

why don't we worry about our own problems before getting our underpants in a knot over what if senario
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lilah
05-24-2007, 08:18 PM
i mean, seriously, out of 1000 people rougly 900 oppose it, while supposedly 100 say ok...and the headline is 'some US Muslims say suicide bombing ok'.... now we've created anti islamic sentiment and headache for the 900 that opposed it... cuz you know the american joe is not going to remember the word 'SOME' they're going to remember US Muslims say suicide bombing ok...



ps, if i had the option to edit my post i would add these things....but i have to post things as a new reply..
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Keltoi
05-24-2007, 08:42 PM
All surveys and polls are done with a sample of the population. There is no such thing as a survey that talks to everybody. A similar survey in Britain found similar results.
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Ra`eesah
05-24-2007, 08:43 PM
This was all over CNN, I never took that Survey
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Keltoi
05-24-2007, 08:50 PM
Originally Posted by Ra`eesah
This was all over CNN, I never took that Survey
I've only been surveyed once for presidential election polls, but more times than not they are fairly accurate at predicting results...recent history aside.
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lilah
05-24-2007, 08:52 PM
Originally Posted by Ra`eesah
This was all over CNN, I never took that Survey
you know, i never got a phone call....nether did my husband...but i guess the name 'Anthony' doesn't sound to arabic...or muslim...so out the window that went
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Cognescenti
05-24-2007, 09:24 PM
Originally Posted by lilah
i mean, seriously, out of 1000 people rougly 900 oppose it, while supposedly 100 say ok...and the headline is 'some US Muslims say suicide bombing ok'.... now we've created anti islamic sentiment and headache for the 900 that opposed it... cuz you know the american joe is not going to remember the word 'SOME' they're going to remember US Muslims say suicide bombing ok...



ps, if i had the option to edit my post i would add these things....but i have to post things as a new reply..
Your suspicion of the wording of a poll is a valid point and I would agree that the selection criteria seem somewhat amateurish, but, on the other hand, the London bombers were home grown, so it also glib of you to dismiss it so lightly.

If they achieved a true random sample, 1000 is a good-sized number and would have quite a bit of statistical power, allowing one to generalize.

My guess is they may have achieved a random sample of people with listed telephone numbers and Arabic-soundig names. :) It does make me wonder, if they called everyone with "al" in their name, did they call Al Gore?
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Keltoi
05-24-2007, 09:26 PM
If I had to guess I would imagine that a large number of the sample population were those who had been contacted as Muslims before.
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lilah
05-24-2007, 09:41 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
I've only been surveyed once for presidential election polls, but more times than not they are fairly accurate at predicting results...recent history aside.
are you suggesting that CNN, ABC, and other polling institutions only call up about 1000 americans for presidential election polls? and then, do they just flip open a phone book and pick out names that 'sound like' they could be registered voters?

i'm willing to bet you that presidential election polls are a *tiny* bit more scientific
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lilah
05-24-2007, 09:42 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
If I had to guess I would imagine that a large number of the sample population were those who had been contacted as Muslims before.
well, now that just makes the survey that more accurate...your guesses
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lilah
05-24-2007, 09:45 PM
Originally Posted by Cognescenti
Your suspicion of the wording of a poll is a valid point and I would agree that the selection criteria seem somewhat amateurish, but, on the other hand, the London bombers were home grown, so it also glib of you to dismiss it so lightly.

If they achieved a true random sample, 1000 is a good-sized number and would have quite a bit of statistical power, allowing one to generalize.

My guess is they may have achieved a random sample of people with listed telephone numbers and Arabic-soundig names. :) It does make me wonder, if they called everyone with "al" in their name, did they call Al Gore?

the latest numbers i found of the crime rate in Britain

Violent crime rates (per 1,000 people)
London 22.2
West Midlands 17
Greater Manchester 15.4
Nottinghamshire 14.3
Leicestershire 12.2
Merseyside 10.5
Northumbria 9.4
these are actual statistics of the crime rate in britian...not a survey of how many britons would comit a crime if they could....
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lilah
05-24-2007, 09:53 PM
there are a little under 2 million muslims in the united states as of 2001...using that number, that means for this survey, .0005 or .05% of the possible muslim population (after all, they went after muslim/arabic sounding names) were polled for this survey....

i'm sure for a presidential election, only .05% of registered voters are polled.
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Cognescenti
05-24-2007, 10:20 PM
Originally Posted by lilah
there are a little under 2 million muslims in the united states as of 2001...using that number, that means for this survey, .0005 or .05% of the possible muslim population (after all, they went after muslim/arabic sounding names) were polled for this survey....

i'm sure for a presidential election, only .05% of registered voters are polled.
You are right, for most Presidential polls in the US the fraction of the target population polled is nowhere near .05%....it's more in the range of .001 %. (that is 50x less as a fraction of the population of interest)

For example, here is a poll from 2004 with 1500 respondents in a potential population of likely voters of >120,000,000

http://americanresearchgroup.com/presballot/

this size poll yields a 95% confidence interval of +/- 2.5%

Therefore, a truly random poll of 1000 respondents in a population of 2 M (your figure) would have a very narrow confidence interval. You can argue perhaps that the questions are stupid or that the sample was not random but you can't fault the poll for statistical power based on the poll size. Sorry.

Instead of painting it as some kind of propaganda weapon, you might ask yourself where in the heck did some 40% of the respondents get the idea that "Arab men" were not responsible for the 9-11 destruction (one of the poll questions).
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Cognescenti
05-24-2007, 10:30 PM
Originally Posted by lilah
the latest numbers i found of the crime rate in Britain


these are actual statistics of the crime rate in britian...not a survey of how many britons would comit a crime if they could....
Ah, thanks for that clarification. Not to be pedantic, but that is not the actual crime rate. That is an estimate of the rate based on crimes reported to law enforcement agencies and passed along to some other body for record-keeping. It includes many potential biases.

While we are at it, the Dow Jones Industrial Average is a sample. The weather report on the news is a sample. When you go to the doctor and they take a hematocrit...that is a sample. It is possible, of course, to withdraw most of the blood and measure the hematocrit in a 5 gallon water bottle, but it is not a very popular option.
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lilah
05-24-2007, 10:39 PM
Originally Posted by Cognescenti
You are right, for most Presidential polls in the US the fraction of the target population polled is nowhere near .05%....it's more in the range of .001 %. (that is 50x less as a fraction of the population of interest)

For example, here is a poll from 2004 with 1500 respondents in a potential population of likely voters of >120,000,000

http://americanresearchgroup.com/presballot/

this size poll yields a 95% confidence interval of +/- 2.5%

Therefore, a truly random poll of 1000 respondents in a population of 2 M (your figure) would have a very narrow confidence interval. You can argue perhaps that the questions are stupid or that the sample was not random but you can't fault the poll for statistical power based on the poll size. Sorry.

Instead of painting it as some kind of propaganda weapon, you might ask yourself where in the heck did some 40% of the respondents get the idea that "Arab men" were not responsible for the 9-11 destruction (one of the poll questions).
a majority of those men were allegedly saudi...why haven't we invaded??? it's because we already own saudi arabia.. the minute the oil supply is cut, the invasion will begin.. as i recall, this whole thing with iraq began when sadam threatened our oil supply...er, i mean when he invaded kwuait....before then, we didn't give a hoot about what he did to his people. protect americna interest! save the oil! save the oil! .....er that is, stop terrorism!

but there are many issues surrounding the 9-11 attack that have left legit questions in many americans AND arabs minds...but if you ask, then your a conspiracy theorist...you're not supposed to ask quesions on what you've already been told by the federal government what happened.

but this isn't what the topic is about, so won't go there...
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Cognescenti
05-24-2007, 11:04 PM
Originally Posted by lilah
a majority of those men were allegedly saudi...why haven't we invaded??? it's because we already own saudi arabia..
"allegedly saudi"????? :? Where do you think they were from Lichtenstein? Good thing you weren't one of those questioned or the number of 9-11 deniers among the sample might have been higher.


.. as i recall, this whole thing with iraq began when sadam threatened our oil supply...er, i mean when he invaded kwuait....before then, we didn't give a hoot about what he did to his people...
I think you mean the "free flow of oil at market prices" :)


but there are many issues surrounding the 9-11 attack that have left legit questions in many americans AND arabs minds...but if you ask, then your a conspiracy theorist...you're not supposed to ask quesions on what you've already been told by the federal government what happened.

but this isn't what the topic is about, so won't go there...
:omg:
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lilah
05-24-2007, 11:09 PM
Originally Posted by Cognescenti
"allegedly saudi"????? :? Where do you think they were from Lichtenstein? Good thing you weren't one of those questioned or the number of 9-11 deniers among the sample might have been higher.
i am willing to admit that there are facts about 9/11 i am not aware and ignorant about, hence the word 'allegedly' because that is what i was told by honest bushie, do feel sure and confident in what the government tells you? especially when they are using said events to justify an illegal war?

also, since there was never really a serious trial, when somebody commits a crime and wasn't tried, the term used is 'alleged' and 'suspected'...right?

but, i have many reasons to be skeptical after the 7 or so years of the bush administration

but once again, that's getting off topic, which was the anti islamic slant of the survey posted.... i say a more accurate headline is 'Majority of muslims say suicide bombing is not ok!' but the later just sells more papers or gets more clicks.

we could get a real survey going on this board, but i'm afraid trolls and islamophobes would ruin the results....
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Joe98
05-24-2007, 11:51 PM
Originally Posted by lilah
there are a little under 2 million muslims in the united states ......

I am curious to know whether the men play baseball and gridiron and the women play softball and basket ball.

And then attend any after game team functions.

-
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Cognescenti
05-24-2007, 11:58 PM
Originally Posted by lilah
..but, i have many reasons to be skeptical after the 7 or so years of the bush administration
I'm not sure "skepticism" is the right word. After all, there are pictures of the happy trio getting through airport screeing at Logan International.

but once again, that's getting off topic, which was the anti islamic slant of the survey posted.... i say a more accurate headline is 'Majority of muslims say suicide bombing is not ok!' but the later just sells more papers or gets more clicks.

we could get a real survey going on this board, but i'm afraid trolls and islamophobes would ruin the results....
Are you saying the whole survey was anti-Islamic or just the headline? Neither one can reasonably be seen to be defaming Islam. I suppose you could say that, from your perspective, the headline portrays Islamic Americans in a poor light, but is the headline really intentionally biased or does it incisively highlight the salient finding of the study...because, after all, that is what a headline is supposed to do.

When Kim Philby, the famous Russian spy, was uncovered with his little cabal of former Cambridge students (I think it was) the headline wouldn't read...."99.999% of Cambridge graduates found to not be Russian spies"
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lilah
05-25-2007, 12:22 AM
Originally Posted by Cognescenti
Are you saying the whole survey was anti-Islamic or just the headline? Neither one can reasonably be seen to be defaming Islam. I suppose you could say that, from your perspective, the headline portrays Islamic Americans in a poor light, but is the headline really intentionally biased or does it incisively highlight the salient finding of the study...because, after all, that is what a headline is supposed to do.

When Kim Philby, the famous Russian spy, was uncovered with his little cabal of former Cambridge students (I think it was) the headline wouldn't read...."99.999% of Cambridge graduates found to not be Russian spies"
Instead it would have read "Some Cambridge graduates are Russian Spies"
I'm saying the survey could have been flawed based on how they found the participants, and the headline is defaming Muslims as a group... afterall, if the majority of muslim americans disaprove of suicide bombing, there would be no story....
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Keltoi
05-25-2007, 01:22 AM
Originally Posted by lilah
Instead it would have read "Some Cambridge graduates are Russian Spies"
I'm saying the survey could have been flawed based on how they found the participants, and the headline is defaming Muslims as a group... afterall, if the majority of muslim americans disaprove of suicide bombing, there would be no story....
The headline was a product of the media, who chose to highlight that particular part of the survey for obvious reasons.
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lilah
05-25-2007, 01:45 AM
well, this muslim...as fanatic and extremist in her religon as they come, believe suicide bombing is a crime with no religous basis and goes against anything Islam teaches

a majority of muslims believe me, and i believe the ones that don't...don't know their religon as well as they should....

but that won't make headlines

jmo
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lilah
05-25-2007, 02:21 AM
Originally Posted by lilah
as fanatic and extremist in her religon

let me rephrase that before somebody runsaway with that... 'as extremely orthodox in my religon'....
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Keltoi
05-25-2007, 03:19 AM
Originally Posted by lilah
let me rephrase that before somebody runsaway with that... 'as extremely orthodox in my religon'....
It's too late...I've already contacted my local FBI office. :)
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Cognescenti
05-25-2007, 04:57 AM
Originally Posted by lilah
well, this muslim...as fanatic and extremist in her religon as they come, believe suicide bombing is a crime with no religous basis and goes against anything Islam teaches

a majority of muslims believe me, and i believe the ones that don't...don't know their religon as well as they should....

but that won't make headlines

jmo

That is good to hear. Good luck with your baby.
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islamirama
05-25-2007, 05:13 AM
Originally Posted by Cognescenti
"allegedly saudi"????? :? Where do you think they were from Lichtenstein? Good thing you weren't one of those questioned or the number of 9-11 deniers among the sample might have been higher.


Survey of 25 Muslim countries showed majority do not believe Muslims did 9-11, when asked who did? some sayd they don't know, some said inside job, and some said israel was involved.


What do i say?.....











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wilberhum
05-25-2007, 05:29 AM
islamirama,
Denial looks good on you. You must ware it all the time. :D
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Cognescenti
05-25-2007, 05:30 AM
Originally Posted by islamirama
Survey of 25 Muslim countries showed majority do not believe Muslims did 9-11, when asked who did? some sayd they don't know, some said inside job, and some said israel was involved.


[B]What do i say?.....

]
I suppose someone got to Fallwell because he was going to talk, then?

"Commence Operation Freemason on my mark.........mark!"
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Muezzin
05-25-2007, 08:52 AM
Originally Posted by Joe98
I am curious to know whether the men play baseball and gridiron and the women play softball and basket ball.

And then attend any after game team functions.

-
Right, because if they don't, they must be failing to integrate.

Let's kick out all the geeks by that logic.
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lilah
05-25-2007, 09:18 AM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
It's too late...I've already contacted my local FBI office. :)
:-[ :-[ :-[

i'm hearing strange clicking on my phone now :omg: :omg:

lol
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wafa islam
05-25-2007, 09:35 AM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
Council on American-Islamic Relations: "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth." -Omar Ahmad Addressing a youth session at the 1999 Islamic Association for Palestine's annual convention in Chicago, CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations) founder Omar Ahmad praised suicide bombers who "kill themselves for Islam"

And lets not foget that 80% of US mosques are controlled by Saudis.
Peace,

The religion of Islam says this:

"There is no compulsion in religion". (2:256)

Another thing, suicide is NOT accepted in islam, and it can never be justified. And to kill yourself in order to defend your religion is simply not right, because suicide is not righteous in the sight of God.

Secondly, please visit this site

www.cair.com

And you will see their anti-terrorism campaign.

Thirdly, you cannot quote someone without a proper source. It is very unlikely that a man with such kind of background would say something like that. No rational person would say something like that.

And finally, note that most extremist people are not even practising the religion. They just say things without having any knowledge about the religion whatsoever.

Regards
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wafa islam
05-25-2007, 09:41 AM
Originally Posted by lilah
i mean, seriously, out of 1000 people rougly 900 oppose it, while supposedly 100 say ok...and the headline is 'some US Muslims say suicide bombing ok'.... now we've created anti islamic sentiment and headache for the 900 that opposed it... cuz you know the american joe is not going to remember the word 'SOME' they're going to remember US Muslims say suicide bombing ok...



ps, if i had the option to edit my post i would add these things....but i have to post things as a new reply..
Good point !
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islamirama
05-25-2007, 01:12 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
islamirama,
Denial looks good on you. You must ware it all the time. :D
Denial looks better on you, what was that you were rambling about "whole Truth" vs "one sided", how long will your gov't push for it's one sided story? not all of us will fall for such lies as you fell for "conclulsive evidence" found on iraq WMD; oh wait, we're stupid and made a booboo and the evidence is faulty... lol what incompetent fools!
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Amadeus85
05-25-2007, 04:34 PM
Originally Posted by wafa islam
Peace,


Secondly, please visit this site

www.cair.com

And you will see their anti-terrorism campaign.



Regards


Omar Ahmad
Co-Founder of the Council on American-Islamic Relations
President and CEO of Silicon Expert Technologies.
Former Islamic Association for Palestine (IAP) Officer.

Omar Ahmad was captured on FBI surveillance tapes at Hamas meetings in the United States
during 1993 explaining that the IAP could not, for political reasons, admit its support for
Hamas, and then discussing how the Hamas agenda could be cloaked and advanced.

Nihad Awad
Executive Director
Former Public Relations Director for the Islamic Association for Palestine (IAP)
A Palestinian born in Jordan and now a U.S. citizen.

"I am in support of the Hamas movement."

"The Palestinians are using legitimate means of resistance.
We should not be shy about it, and we should not be
apologetic about it."


Randall "Ismail" Royer
CAIR-National Civil Rights Coordinator
& Communications Specialist
*CONVICTED*
Committed Terrorist Crimes while working for CAIR


Ghassan Elashi
Founder Of CAIR-Texas
*CONVICTED*
Committed Terrorist Crimes while working for CAIR
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islamirama
05-25-2007, 05:03 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
Omar Ahmad
Co-Founder of the Council on American-Islamic Relations
President and CEO of Silicon Expert Technologies.
Former Islamic Association for Palestine (IAP) Officer.

Omar Ahmad was captured on FBI surveillance tapes at Hamas meetings in the United States
during 1993 explaining that the IAP could not, for political reasons, admit its support for
Hamas, and then discussing how the Hamas agenda could be cloaked and advanced.

Nihad Awad
Executive Director
Former Public Relations Director for the Islamic Association for Palestine (IAP)
A Palestinian born in Jordan and now a U.S. citizen.

"I am in support of the Hamas movement."

"The Palestinians are using legitimate means of resistance.
We should not be shy about it, and we should not be
apologetic about it."


Randall "Ismail" Royer
CAIR-National Civil Rights Coordinator
& Communications Specialist
*CONVICTED*
Committed Terrorist Crimes while working for CAIR


Ghassan Elashi
Founder Of CAIR-Texas
*CONVICTED*
Committed Terrorist Crimes while working for CAIR
yea yea, lot of charities were attacked and shut down also becuase they were "funding terrorism", what a load of crap. Anyone the gov't doesn't like is labeled terrorists these days. you'll have to go share that with your poor sap friends cuz we don't buy that crap around here.
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Hashim_507
05-25-2007, 05:09 PM
The survay are false and missleading..
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wilberhum
05-25-2007, 05:46 PM
More and more denial of the obvious. Really sad.
Time for some more pre-teen remarks.
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Keltoi
05-25-2007, 07:10 PM
This may sound completely crazy....but there is something in the U.S. called a judicial system. If those individuals wilberhum pointed out were convicted on terrorist related charges it was because there was enough evidence to do so. I know it is popular to be cynical about everything these days, but there are those "rare" cases where people are actually charged and convicted because they were in fact guilty.
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wilberhum
05-25-2007, 07:21 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
This may sound completely crazy....but there is something in the U.S. called a judicial system. If those individuals wilberhum pointed out were convicted on terrorist related charges it was because there was enough evidence to do so. I know it is popular to be cynical about everything these days, but there are those "rare" cases where people are actually charged and convicted because they were in fact guilty.
I pointed out? :raging:
You got the wrong man. :? I was addressing those who deney/dodge facts. :skeleton:
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Keltoi
05-25-2007, 07:28 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
I pointed out? :raging:
You got the wrong man. :? I was addressing those who deney/dodge facts. :skeleton:
Oops, sorry, should have said Aaron.
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جوري
05-25-2007, 08:09 PM
better to funnel your "charity" money to the colonial settler Zionist state of Israel, than to refuge Palestinians because they are of course terrorists.


enough said.....
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Amadeus85
05-25-2007, 09:21 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
yea yea, lot of charities were attacked and shut down also becuase they were "funding terrorism", what a load of crap. Anyone the gov't doesn't like is labeled terrorists these days. you'll have to go share that with your poor sap friends cuz we don't buy that crap around here.
Someone is called a terrorist when he support terrorist. And yes for most of us, westerners, Hamas is terrorist group. I know that you are shocked now.
Reply

Keltoi
05-25-2007, 09:27 PM
Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
better to funnel your "charity" money to the colonial settler Zionist state of Israel, than to refuge Palestinians because they are of course terrorists.


enough said.....

Duh...Hamas is a recognized terrorist organization. Honest charities directed to the Palestinian people are not the issue here.
Reply

جوري
05-25-2007, 09:33 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Duh...Hamas is a recognized terrorist organization. Honest charities directed to the Palestinian people are not the issue here.
I don't care who recognizes Hamas as what-- I can easily turn this around and say we recognize the IDF as terrorists, and we'd be very justified. duhhh :rollseyes
Reply

Muezzin
05-25-2007, 09:35 PM
Duhht's got nuthin da dooo widda topic
Reply

Keltoi
05-25-2007, 09:36 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
Duhht's got nuthin da dooo widda topic
Duhhh..you're right. Apologies.
Reply

جوري
05-25-2007, 09:36 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
Duhht's got nuthin da dooo widda topic
it is a form of cheesy catharsis and members should be free to duh or counter duh away :omg:
Reply

Amadeus85
05-25-2007, 10:00 PM
Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
I don't care who recognizes Hamas as what-- I can easily turn this around and say we recognize the IDF as terrorists, and we'd be very justified. duhhh :rollseyes
Terrorism is deliberetaly attacking civilians to gain political goals. Hamas is terroristic organization.

And i thought that you condemn terrorism... How can you condemn terrorism and in the same time support terroristic groups?

Its like saying - i condemn racism, but Ku Klux Klan is ok, they have their rights to do what they do..

Do you see what i mean?
Reply

جوري
05-25-2007, 10:34 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
Terrorism is deliberetaly attacking civilians to gain political goals. Hamas is terroristic organization.

And i thought that you condemn terrorism... How can you condemn terrorism and in the same time support terroristic groups?

Its like saying - i condemn racism, but Ku Klux Klan is ok, they have their rights to do what they do..

Do you see what i mean?
I don't so pls spare me the sophomoric commentaries--simply since your analogy is incongruous and that is actually an understatement--if a faction of you united to expel illegal, colonial settlers, that have taken over your land by force and expelled the rest of you to refuge camps, your government so weakened by the occupation--you'd be declared as the few who could stand up to oppose tyranny, you'd be considered heroes even celebrated as freedom fighters. Some people in a land far away could possibly see you as terrorist, funnel some money into the settlers, brain wash the world into how awful you and your faction are, but fact remains, you know it in your heart, it doesn't matter the labels, or various blogs of fools and their mercenaries---you'll die for your freedom!...
Reply

جوري
05-25-2007, 10:39 PM
Media Tags are no longer supported
Reply

islamirama
05-26-2007, 04:12 AM
Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
I don't so pls spare me the sophomoric commentaries--simply since your analogy is incongruous and that is actually an understatement--if a faction of you united to expel illegal, colonial settlers, that have taken over your land by force and expelled the rest of you to refuge camps, your government so weakened by the occupation--you'd be declared as the few who could stand up to oppose tyranny, you'd be considered heroes even celebrated as freedom fighters. Some people in a land far away could possibly see you as terrorist, funnel some money into the settlers, brain wash the world into how awful you and your faction are, but fact remains, you know it in your heart, it doesn't matter the labels, or various blogs of fools and their mercenaries---you'll die for your freedom!...
Indeed the terrorists calling the oppressed terrorists for fighting back and the world going with it, what blind nations of people we have these days!


Very sad video, how many more daily incidents like those not allowed to be reported by outsid reporters and shelfed cuz they are not showing the kuffars in good light by their own reporters. may Allah helpt he Muslims and humiliate, defeat and destory the zionists. Ameen.
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E'jaazi
05-26-2007, 05:13 AM
Why all the discussion when suicide is haram! Period!
Reply

Grace Seeker
05-26-2007, 06:48 AM
Getting back to the actual survey.... did we ever decide if the survey was a legitimate scientifically valid survey or a piece of poorly formed opinion and crap?


And as far as headlines go, here is the one that I found when I looked for it online-- "Muslim Americans: Middle Class and Mostly Mainstream". Hardly seems like the sort of headline that would excite anybody one way or another.
Reply

Cognescenti
05-26-2007, 02:18 PM
Purest;

What I saw in that video was unmistakable racism on the part of the Israeli soldier and very poor judgement on the part of the officer in charge in not getting help for the woman sooner and perhaps in using explosives to knock down the door. Also, the soldiers as a whole failed to show sufficient consideration during the search. Perhaps the whole unit are racist, but I can't tell that from the video.

After years of fighting, postions are hardened on both sides. I have also seen many, many overt antisemitic remarks made on this forum. I think it is fair to say
the racism goes both ways.

What I did not see was terrorism.
Reply

جوري
05-26-2007, 02:58 PM
Semite
2 entries found for Semite.
To select an entry, click on it.
Semiteanti-Semitism

Main Entry: Sem·ite
Pronunciation: 'se-"mIt, especially British 'sE-"mIt
Function: noun
Etymology: French sémite, from Semitic Shem, from Late Latin, from Greek SEm, from Hebrew ShEm
1 a : a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs b : a descendant of these peoples
2 : a member of a modern people speaking a Semitic language

I am a semite, it would be purpose defeating to be an anti-Semite.. I am so sick of that term, I am not sure who coined it, but find it laughable when people use it-- 20% of Muslims are Semites, as in those who live in the middle east-- as in the ones affected by all of this....

easy for all of us to sit and judge, but we don't know what is going on there. A friend of mine was killed going to the market place by an IDF solider.. the ******* killed him with a smile on his face-- need I say more? The Labels America and Israel readily slap on people, rarely make a difference... If Americans don't know why there is so much embitterment, then Israeli's do, as do the Palestinians---

peace!
Reply

جوري
05-26-2007, 03:14 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
Very sad video, how many more daily incidents like those not allowed to be reported by outsid reporters and shelfed cuz they are not showing the kuffars in good light by their own reporters. may Allah helpt he Muslims and humiliate, defeat and destory the zionists. Ameen.
أَمْ حَسِبْتُمْ أَن تَدْخُلُواْ الْجَنَّةَ وَلَمَّا يَأْتِكُم مَّثَلُ الَّذِينَ خَلَوْاْ مِن قَبْلِكُم مَّسَّتْهُمُ الْبَأْسَاء وَالضَّرَّاء وَزُلْزِلُواْ حَتَّى يَقُولَ الرَّسُولُ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ مَعَهُ مَتَى نَصْرُ اللّهِ أَلا إِنَّ نَصْرَ اللّهِ قَرِيبٌ {2,214

:w:
Reply

Cognescenti
05-26-2007, 03:36 PM
Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
Semite
2 entries found for Semite.
To select an entry, click on it.
Semiteanti-Semitism

Main Entry: Sem·ite
Pronunciation: 'se-"mIt, especially British 'sE-"mIt
Function: noun
Etymology: French sémite, from Semitic Shem, from Late Latin, from Greek SEm, from Hebrew ShEm
1 a : a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs b : a descendant of these peoples
2 : a member of a modern people speaking a Semitic language

I am a semite, it would be purpose defeating to be an anti-Semite.. I am so sick of that term, I am not sure who coined it, but find it laughable when people use it-- 20% of Muslims are Semites, as in those who live in the middle east-- as in the ones affected by all of this....
Yes, yes. I know all about the original meaning of "Semitic". Here some other another etymological quirks...Gypsies aren't Egyptian, American Indians aren't from India and very few Americans are actually descendants of Amerigo Vespucci, either.

You nominate an accpetable term for, irrational, group-based, sterotypical hatred of all Jews among other Semitic peoples and I will use it.

Hebrewaphobe? Jew Hater? There needs to be a term because it is, undeniably a real phenomenon.

...easy for all of us to sit and judge, but we don't know what is going on there. A friend of mine was killed going to the market place by an IDF solider.. the ******* killed him with a smile on his face-- need I say more? The Labels America and Israel readily slap on people, rarely make a difference... If Americans don't know why there is so much embitterment, then Israeli's do, as do the Palestinians---

peace!
Very sorry to hear about your friend. I can well understand embitterment among the Palestinians...they lose in every war someone starts with Israel, their own leaders have cynically stolen from them, regional Arab states cynically use them as political pawns. Even when the Israelis leave an area, the Palestinian factions fight over the bread crumbs. It is a mess, but blowing up girls and old women on a civilian bus has not achieved anything of value.
Reply

جوري
05-26-2007, 03:50 PM
Originally Posted by Cognescenti
Yes, yes. I know all about the original meaning of "Semitic". Here some other another etymological quirks...Gypsies aren't Egyptian, American Indians aren't from India and very few Americans are actually descendants of Amerigo Vespucci, either.

You nominate an accpetable term for, irrational, group-based, sterotypical hatred of all Jews among other Semitic peoples and I will use it.

Hebrewaphobe? Jew Hater? There needs to be a term because it is, undeniably a real phenomenon..
Contrary to what you might think, I don't hate Jews.. I hate Zionism, there is a profound difference -- you or some other on this forum pointed out that Hamas are terrorists and I pointed out that the IDF are terrorists, is it ok to be a terrorist in uniform, appointed by the states?-- how much more frightening is that? At least Hamas don't go from door to door killing people's mother's and saying it is some sort of ethnic cleansing, it is appropriate. This is just a coincidental video, only G-D knows what is hidden!
If you are familiar with the term, then don't be using it blindly please especially that most Jews today aren't of Hebrew origin but of Ashkenazic origin!
quick lesson in hx. the land of Palestine was "supposedly" promised to the seed of
Abraham. If one researches the Ancient Hebrew laws, the right of decent or
inheritance is based on the eldest son, no matter whom the mother is. If
this is the case, then the land was promised to Ishamel (for he was the
eldest of Abraham's sons) and the Father of Palestinian Arabs. In addition,
modern day Jews from Russia, Poland and most parts of Eastern Europe have NO
genetic link to the ancient Hebrews - they for the most part are decendents
of Khazars, who converted to Judaism in the 7th century (this has been
documented by Jewish scholars, not Arabs). The modern day Palestinians can
claim a more direct link to the Hebrew tribes than the founders of modern day
"Israel." What the Western Press purposely avoids mentioning is the fact
that at the start of the 20th century, less than 5% of the land of Palestine
was Jewish. The modern State of Israel was built on lands illegally taken and
assimilated from Palestinian Christians and Muslims. Also, the Hebrews only
ruled the land of Palestine for a combined 411 years - the Muslims have ruled
the land for 1,500 years. In addition, the land of Canaan (Palestine) had a
history long before the Jewish tribes immigrated to the area.

I hope this helps?



Originally Posted by Cognescenti
Very sorry to hear about your friend. I can well understand embitterment among the Palestinians...they lose in every war someone starts with Israel, their own leaders have cynically stolen from them, regional Arab states cynically use them as political pawns. Even when the Israelis leave an area, the Palestinian factions fight over the bread crumbs. It is a mess, but blowing up girls and old women on a civilian bus has not achieved anything of value.
Neither is demolishing people's houses, and killing their mothers... this conversation is futile. You are not teaching me anything, not instilling any sort of value into this conversation. You can't show objectivity, since you don't live there. Israel seems really cool and democratic to you, and why wouldn't it be after 91 billion dollars in aid from the U.S. alone, let alone what it received from Germany and Europe. They can afford to make a holocaust movie every year -- and to mass manipulate people like you to mouth off their agenda.... blow up what they need and make minuscule what they deem negligible of human life.
It doesn't matter-- in the beginning and the end, is G-D on his throne. And G-D is lover of justice, and keeper of his promise
وَقُلْنَا مِن بَعْدِهِ لِبَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ اسْكُنُواْ الأَرْضَ فَإِذَا جَاء وَعْدُ الآخِرَةِ جِئْنَا بِكُمْ لَفِيفًا


peace!
Reply

Cognescenti
05-26-2007, 04:32 PM
Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
Contrary to what you might think, I don't hate Jews.. I hate Zionism, there is a profound difference -- you or some other on this forum pointed out that Hamas are terrorists and I pointed out that the IDF are terrorists, is it ok to be a terrorist in uniform, appointed by the states?-- how much more frightening is that? At least Hamas don't go from door to door killing people's mother's and saying it is some sort of ethnic cleansing, it is appropriate. This is just a coincidental video, only G-D knows what is hidden!
If you are familiar with the term, then don't be using it blindly please especially that most Jews today aren't of Hebrew origin but of Ashkenazic origin!
quick lesson in hx. the land of Palestine was "supposedly" promised to the seed of
Abraham. If one researches the Ancient Hebrew laws, the right of decent or
inheritance is based on the eldest son, no matter whom the mother is. If
this is the case, then the land was promised to Ishamel (for he was the
eldest of Abraham's sons) and the Father of Palestinian Arabs. In addition,
modern day Jews from Russia, Poland and most parts of Eastern Europe have NO
genetic link to the ancient Hebrews - they for the most part are decendents
of Khazars, who converted to Judaism in the 7th century (this has been
documented by Jewish scholars, not Arabs). The modern day Palestinians can
claim a more direct link to the Hebrew tribes than the founders of modern day
"Israel." What the Western Press purposely avoids mentioning is the fact
that at the start of the 20th century, less than 5% of the land of Palestine
was Jewish. The modern State of Israel was built on lands illegally taken and
assimilated from Palestinian Christians and Muslims. Also, the Hebrews only
ruled the land of Palestine for a combined 411 years - the Muslims have ruled
the land for 1,500 years. In addition, the land of Canaan (Palestine) had a
history long before the Jewish tribes immigrated to the area.

I hope this helps?
Ah, thanks for the condescension, my friend. You will note I did not accuse you of irrational hatred of Jews. Also note, I did not ask for a history of the Middle East..just an appropriate, poltically correct, alternative term for "antisemitism" as you upbraded me for its use.

Since you didn't like Hebrewaphobe...I take it then you would prefer "Jew Hater" because "Anti-Zionism" is not really the same thing, as I think you would agree.

As for the term "Ashkenazi", it now has genetic, cultural, linguistic and religious practice implications. There is no title insurance company with deeds going back 3000 years so this type of analysis isn't going to work.




...... You are not teaching me anything, not instilling any sort of value into this conversation. You can't show objectivity, since you don't live there. Israel seems really cool and democratic to you, and why wouldn't it be after 91 billion dollars in aid from the U.S. alone, let alone what it received from Germany and Europe.............


peace!
You know, bud, you really have quite a pedantic streak. Let me get this straight...I am the one who can't show objectivity? You are making some major assumptions there, my friend. I am equally tired of the idiotic Jewish historic claims on the land. The only reasonable resolution involves Israel relinquishing much of the West Bank but you are dreaming if you think Israel is going to disappear.
Reply

Amadeus85
05-26-2007, 04:53 PM
Jews survived egyptian slavery.
They survived babilon slavery.
They survived 2 000 years of living without their homeland.
They survived Holocaust.
They won wars with all arab neighbours.

Jews are God's chosen nation.

In Bible is written that God will support Jews and curse those who curse Jews.

Half of Arabs are illiterate people.

Israel alone produces more scientific works and books than all arab countries together.

Israel alone has more Noble winners than all muslim countries together.

6 millions Jews are surrounded by nearly 100 millions enemies who hate them, but Israel still exists.

I dont need more evidences.
Reply

جوري
05-26-2007, 05:27 PM
lol at "noble"-- by this I take it, you have a few under your belt yourself? given that you can't even spell it?
indeed they have escaped Egypt with Egypt's gold only to build themselves a golden calf to worship-- ha - Amusing! I am not sure what their survival has to do with anything?
Nuclear Weapons
Israel has not confirmed that it has nuclear weapons and officially maintains that it will not be the first country to introduce nuclear weapons into the Middle East. Yet the existence of Israeli nuclear weapons is a "public secret" by now due to the declassification of large numbers of formerly highly classified US government documents which show that the United States by 1975 was convinced that Israel had nuclear weapons.
source
All of it from money funneled from the U.S and other European countries-- Arabs could possibly annihilate the Jews too, if America and the "powers that be" weren't imposing sanctions as they are now with Iran... how disproportionate to give weapons to that tiny little colonial settler state and then claim they won all the wars against their neighbors, and almost in the same breath scream Anti-jews and haters-- are you for real?

I found this article rather interesting--
I received an e-mail from a friend yesterday, which noted that there are 1.2 billion Muslims making up 19.6 percent of the world’s population. Out of this large group, only eight Nobel prizes have been awarded, two each in literature, peace, chemistry and medicine. By contrast, this same e-mail pointed out that with a population of only 14.1 million people, Jews are 0.2 percent of the world’s population, yet they have produced 127 Nobel Prize winners in literature, peace, chemistry, medicine, physics and economics.

“OK,” I thought to myself. “What am I supposed to infer from this e-mail?” Let’s unpack the facts from the inferences. Jews win far more Nobel prizes. This is factually true, if this e-mail is to be believed (and don’t believe everything you read on the Internet — or in your morning newspaper either). Based on the larger number of Nobel prizes and the much smaller population, one could infer that therefore Jews are smarter than adherents of Islam. Taking it a step further, one could infer that because they are smarter, their claims to land are more righteous, and other smart people should support them in the current conflict that rages in the Holy Land.

Another way to look at this email is to say, why are we even looking at Nobel prizes as a measure of anything? Alfred Nobel invented dynamite and left a lot of money to set up some prizes, and the prizes do honor people of varying faiths and nationalities. But is there any bias in the awarding of prizes that favors those in Europe over Asia and Africa, where many Muslims live? Is there bias toward those who speak European languages, as many of the Jewish Nobel winners did, while important discoveries might be described in Arabic or other non-European language journals that cannot be read by Nobel Prize judges?

Throughout what the Europeans call the Middle Ages or the Dark Ages, the lamp of learning for Europe was kept aflame by scholars who spoke Hebrew, Arabic and other non-Latinate languages. Arabic-speaking adherents of Islam made many advances in mathematics, astronomy, medicine and other fields. Can you imagine trying to do calculus using Roman numerals?
Source

(side note)--Quite a few people have turned down noble prizes Proust, as well as Bernard Shaw for what this organization stands for! (do a google search to confirm)

The reason there are so few "Muslim" Noble prize winners, is the same reason there are so few Chinese Nobel prize winners-- no more no less...
There are 6 Chinese Nobel Laureates, almost the same number as Arab Nobel Laureates. Let me explain how they are related. But first, some background.

I get the most amount of emails regarding my article The Arab Contribution to Civilization: Nothing Lately. In the article I note that there have been very, very few Arab Contributions to the modern world in the past 1,000 years. I get a few dozen emails a month in rebuttal. Since many of the writers have problems with English I suspect they are hesitant to make their remarks in the comment section for fear someone will criticise them for their poor language skills. I don't know about other sites but I would not knowingly permit anyone to make fun of someone's grammar. I think it exemplary that people whose first language is not English are trying to communicate with the rest of us. I certainly would not ask my readers to learn how to speak English before making a comment. Of course, I am opposed to any other language being spoken in our country in terms of drivings tests or schools, but as far as comments are concerned I would discourage my readers from making fun of someone's English when they are trying to give us their point of view.

That said, I did get a comment (not an email this time) that covers most of objections in the emails I receive (excluding the occasional "May the sword of Mohammed deal swift justice to the Jews"). I would like to answer his comment in more detail than I could by simply replying in the comment section.

I wrote: "... under Islam, Arabs have not advanced for the past one thousand years. See my previous article on the paucity of Nobel Prize winners in a world filled with 1.5 billion Muslims ( of which over 300 million are Arabs).

Here is the comment in its entirety:

First, it is false to state that the Arab world has not progressed in the past 1000 years since Islam (see below).
Second, blaming Islam for why the Arab world is now technologically underdeveloped is as logical as saying that western scientific advancement is due to Christian values. Such selective interpretation of history is not confined to politics but widespread, e.g., the rush of business books in the early 90s arguing for the supremacy of a consensus-building management style characteristic of the Japanese (back then), just because the Japanese economy in the 80s looked unbeatable.

The paucity of Arabic Nobel laureates is also not evidence for any apparent fault of Islam, even if it has short-comings (and what religion or culture doesn't). If it were, perhaps one could argue that the Chinese are stupid, given that they too have won so few Nobel prizes (around 6) compared with their population (1 billion). Or Indians. Or the Spanish(!) There have been notable Arabic Nobel prize winners, one of the more recent (1999, in Chemistry) being Ahmed Hassan Zewail, who received his first degree from University of Alexandria, Egypt.

The Islamic world is also striving to improve its record and achieving in science. Theocratic Iran is rapidly expanding its scientific activities (see editorial and letters to the premier international science magazine "Nature": volume 443 page 906 (26 October 2006), and volume 442 pages 719–720 (www.nature.com/nature)) Iranian scientists working in Iran has been contributing to important 20th century discoveries, e.g. discovering glycosylated hemoglobin, and performing the first cornea transplant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_in_Iran)

This is not an apologist's letter for the Islamic world. Muslims themselves realize that the Arab world is a "market for consumption of technology, not manufacturers" (Sheikh Saber Taalab, former head of the Islamic Research Center, frontpage, October 18, 2006, The Daily Star, Egypt http://www.dailystaregypt.com/articl...ArticleID=3523) But before blaming everything on Islam, we should remind ourselves that:
1. contrary to widespread belief, there have been significant achievements in recent times by Muslims working in their native countries (in science, see above, or in the arts, e.g. Iranian director Abbas Kiarostami, who won the grand prix (1997) at Cannes, the premier international film festival);
2. we are outsiders and we don't talk with, read or know a whole lot about the region, except through CNN or some western source, who report mostly about the West;
3. societies rise and fall for a whole range of reasons;
4. scientific progress is also correlated with a whole range of things, most notably wealth, which the west has the most of, at the moment.



There are so many points, I will answer them in short, otherwise this post will become unbearably long.

Ahmed Hassan Zewail - True, but his scientific work was done in AMERICA. Under Islam he would have created nothing.

"Theocratic Iran is rapidly expanding its scientific activities." - False. Iranian scientists are writing bogus scientific papers. Nothing noteworthy is being created. I covered this in a previous post.

"The paucity of Arabic Nobel laureates is also not evidence for any apparent fault of Islam, even if it has short-comings (and what religion or culture doesn't). If it were, perhaps one could argue that the Chinese are stupid, given that they too have won so few Nobel prizes (around 6) compared with their population (1 billion). "

What holds Muslims back in creativity by Islam is the same mechanism that keeps native Chinese from winning Nobel Prizes as well.

Tsung-Dao Lee, Physics, 1957 - Chinese American
Edmond H. Fischer, Physiology or Medicine, 1992 - Swiss-American (born in China)
Daniel C. Tsui*, Physics, 1998 - Chinese American
Gao Xingjian, Literature, 2000 - French Emigre
Chen Ning Yang, Physics, 1957 - Chinese American - See Photo Above
Samuel C.C. Ting, Physics, 1976 - Michigan-born Chinese American
As you can see, they are all Chinese American, or American born in China, or Chinese born in America, and one lives in France. In the case of the 5 Arabs who have won Scientific Nobel Prizes (omitting Peace Prizes), 3 are Christian and the other two, though Muslim, Are Arab-Americans. Just as in the case of Chinese, Arabs, unless they are Arab-Americans or non-Muslim, do not win Nobel Prizes.
source

here is some history on Islamic contributions to science--

And lastly.. I believe we'd excel as well as the Jews if we had 91 billion dollars funneled to us from the united states alone, let alone the rest of the world in Aid.. we can then afford a self-aggrandizing fest where we pat each other on back and pass prizes, and hold self-congratulatory parties....
Calculating Total U.S. Aid
Unquestionably, Israel is the largest cumulative recipient of U.S. aid since World War II. Estimates for total U.S. aid to Israel vary, however, because of the uncertainties and ambiguities described above. An Oct. 27, 2000 Congressional Research Service (CRS) report, using available and verifiable numbers, gives cumulative aid to Israel from 1949 through FY 2000 (which ended Sept. 30, 2000) at $81.38 billion. On the other hand, last year the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs estimated total aid to Israel through FY 2000 at $91.82 billion.
source

I understand Christianity seems so deficient by comparison to Judaism-- maybe you can convert to Judaism and be proud of being a Jew instead of being proud by proxy? You just come across as pathetic!

peace!
Reply

Amadeus85
05-26-2007, 05:51 PM
And God supports those who support Israel. And who is the biggest Israel's fried? USA. And whats the most powerful country in the world?.. USA.
Reply

جوري
05-26-2007, 05:53 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
And God supports those who support Israel. And who is the biggest Israel's fried? USA. And whats the most powerful country in the world?.. USA.
lol.. are you 5? what a joke!
Reply

Cognescenti
05-26-2007, 05:57 PM
Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
....
And lastly.. I believe we'd excel as well as the Jews if we had 91 billion dollars funneled to us from the united states alone, let alone the rest of the world in Aid.. we can then afford a self-aggrandizing fest where we pat each other on back and pass prizes, and hold self-congratulatory parties.... !

According to the Congressional Research Service the totality of US Government aid to Israel (including the value of subsidized loan guarantees) from 1949 to 2000 was about 81 B$, roughly 1.6 B$ annually

According to the UN, official foreign aid to the Palestinians (mostly to the PA) was about 1.2 B$

Prior to the recent Hamas victory, the PA was the highest per capita recipient of US foreign aid...anywhere, reaching over 240 M per year in 2006.

Of course, the Hamas victory has changed things a bit. Now the PA has to rely more on Arab nations....sometimes they dont pay their bills, it seems.

It seems to me there is something else wrong. Part of the problem is the economic unviability of the PA...along with cronyism, factional fighting, graft, nepostism, entitlement thinking...economic consequences of occupation, foreign meddling...etc etc etc
Reply

جوري
05-26-2007, 06:04 PM
what B.S-- I have done quite a bit of work with Médecins Sans Frontières, and I know exactly how mismanaged "Aid money" gets spent when it comes to aid to palis or Africans.. but that is besides... seems like you spent quite a bit of time with the thesaurus here.. so we'll leave things as such, I can think of at least three better ways of spending my Saturday.

peace

oh before I go parting words from your friend Ariel Sharon:
"We control America"
"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it."
- Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001.
Reply

Amadeus85
05-26-2007, 06:07 PM
Interesting Facts about Israel
» US-Israel two-way trade exceeded $18 billion in 2000.
» Israel is one of the most highly educated countries in the world with the highest number of engineers, scientists and Ph.D's per capita (135 per 10,000).
» Israel has the largest number of startup companies, in absolute terms, than any other country in the world, save the US (3,500 companies mostly in hi-tech).
» Israel is the only country in the world to have simultaneous free trade agreements with the US, Mexico and Canada; European Union and European Free Trade Association.
» More Israeli companies are on the US stock exchanges (123) after the US and Canada, with market capitalization of over $33 billion, with two companies included in the S&P 500.
» Israel is ranked #2 in the world for VC funds right behind the US. There is over $4 billion available for investments.
» The per capita income in 2000 is over $17,500, exceeding that of the UK.
» Israel's $100 billion economy is larger than all of its immediate neighbors combined.
» Israel is one of the most secure countries in the world with which to do business. English is the official business language.
» The cell phone was developed in Israel by Motorola-Israel. Motorola built its largest development center worldwide in Israel.
» Windows NT software was developed by Microsoft-Israel.
» The Pentium MMX Chip technology was designed in Israel at Intel.
» Voice mail technology was developed in Israel.
» The first PC anti-virus was developed in Israel in 1979 by the same company that developed the Melissa anti-virus program.
» The world's most predominant company in internet firewall safety systems is Check Point, an Israeli company that controls 40% of the world's market.
» AOL's instant message program was designed by an Israeli software company.
» Both Microsoft and Cisco built their only R&D facilities outside the US in Israel.
» Foreign entities invested more than $3 billion in the Tel Aviv Stock Exchange, over 5% of the total market value of stocks traded on the TASE.
» The credit rating assigned by Moody's for 2000 is A, and its short-term credit rating is P1, their highest rating available for short-term credit.
Reply

Amadeus85
05-26-2007, 06:08 PM
The world's attention has been focused on the Middle East. We are confronted daily with scenes of carnage and destruction. Can we understand such violence? Yes, but only if we come to the situation with a solid grounding in the facts of the matter-facts that too often are forgotten, if ever they were learned. Below are twenty facts that we think are useful in understanding the current situation, how we arrived here, and how we might eventually arrive at a solution.
Roots of the Conflict

1. When the United Nations proposed the establishment of two states in the region--one Jewish, one Arab -- the Jews accepted the proposal and declared their independence in 1948. The Jewish state constituted only 1/6 of one percent of what was known as "the Arab world." The Arab states, however, rejected the UN plan and since then have waged war against Israel repeatedly, both all-out wars and wars of terrorism and attrition. In 1948, five Arab armies invaded Israel in an effort to eradicate it. Jamal Husseini of the Arab Higher Committee spoke for many in vowing to soak "the soil of our beloved country with the last drop of our blood."

2. The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was founded in 1964 -- three years before Israel controlled the West Bank and Gaza. The PLO's declared purpose was to eliminate the State of Israel by means of armed struggle. To this day, the Web site of Yasir Arafat's Palestinian Authority (PA) claims that the entirety of Israel is "occupied" territory. It is impossible to square this with the PLO and PA assertions to Western audiences that the root of the conflict is Israel's occupation of the West Bank and Gaza.

3. The West Bank and Gaza (controlled by Jordan and Egypt from 1948 to 1967) came under Israeli control during the Six Day War of 1967 that started when Egypt closed the Straits of Tiran and Arab armies amassed on Israel's borders to invade and liquidate the state. It is important to note that during their 19-year rule, neither Jordan nor Egypt had made any effort to establish a Palestinian state on those lands. Just before the Arab nations launched their war of aggression against the State of Israel in 1967, Syrian Defense Minister (later President) Hafez Assad stated, "Our forces are now entirely ready . . . to initiate the act of liberation itself, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland . . . the time has come to enter into a battle of annihilation." On the brink of the 1967 war, Egyptian President Gamal Nassar declared, "Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel."

4. Because of their animus against Jews, many leaders of the Palestinian cause have long supported our enemies. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem allied himself with Adolf Hitler during WWII. Yasir Arafat, chairman of the PLO and president of the PA, has repeatedly targeted and killed Americans. In 1973, Arafat ordered the execution of Cleo Noel, the American ambassador to the Sudan. Arafat was very closely aligned with the Soviet Union and other enemies of the United States throughout the Cold War. In 1991, during the Gulf War, Arafat aligned himself with Saddam Hussein, whom he praised as "the defender of the Arab nation, of Muslims, and of free men everywhere."

5. Israel has, in fact, returned most of the land that it captured during the 1967 war and right after that war offered to return all of it in exchange for peace and normal relations; the offer was rejected. As a result of the 1978 Camp David accords -- in which Egypt recognized the right of Israel to exist and normal relations were established between the two countries -- Israel returned the Sinai desert, a territory three times the size of Israel and 91 percent of the territory Israel took control of in the 1967 war.

6. In 2000, as part of negotiations for a comprehensive and durable peace, Israel offered to turn over all but the smallest portion of the remaining territories to Yasir Arafat. But Israel was rebuffed when Arafat walked out of Camp David and launched the current round of violence .

7. Yasir Arafat has never been less than clear about his goals -- at least not in Arabic. On the very day that he signed the Oslo accords in 1993 -- in which he promised to renounce terrorism and recognize Israel -- he addressed the Palestinian people on Jordanian television and declared that he had taken the first step "in the 1974 plan." This was a thinly veiled reference to the "phased plan," according to which any territorial gain was acceptable as a means toward the ultimate goal of Israel's destruction.

8. The recently deceased Faisal al-Husseini, a leading Palestinian spokesman, made the same point in 2001 when he declared that the West Bank and Gaza represented only "22 percent of Palestine" and that the Oslo process was a "Trojan horse." He explained, "When we are asking all the Palestinian forces and factions to look at the Oslo Agreement and at other agreements as 'temporary' procedures, or phased goals, this means that we are ambushing the Israelis and cheating them." The goal, he continued, was "the liberation of Palestine from the river to the sea," i.e., the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea -- all of Israel.

9. To this day, the Fatah wing of the PLO (the "moderate" wing that was founded and is controlled by Arafat himself) has as its official emblem the entire state of Israel covered by two rifles and a hand grenade -- another fact that belies the claim that Arafat desires nothing more than the West Bank and Gaza.

10. While criticism of Israel is not necessarily the same as "anti-Semitism," it must be remembered that the Middle East press is, in fact, rife with anti-Semitism. More than fifteen years ago the eminent scholar Bernard Lewis could point out that "The demonization of Jews [in Arabic literature] goes further than it had ever done in Western literature, with the exception of Germany during the period of Nazi rule." Since then, and through all the years of the "peace process," things have become much worse. Depictions of Jews in Arab and Muslim media are akin to those of Nazi Germany, and medieval blood libels -- including claims that Jews use Christian and Muslim blood in preparing their holiday foods--have become prominent and routine. One example is a sermon broadcast on PA television where Sheik Ahmad Halabaya stated, "They [the Jews] must be butchered and killed, as Allah the Almighty said: 'Fight them: Allah will torture them at your hands.' Have no mercy on the Jews, no matter where they are, in any country. Fight them, wherever you are. Wherever you meet them, kill them."

11. Over three-quarters of Palestinians approve of suicide bombings -- an appalling statistic but in light of the above facts, an unsurprising one.

The State of Israel

12. There are 21 Arab countries in the Middle East and only one Jewish state: Israel, which is also the only democracy in the region.

13. Israel is the only country in the region that permits citizens of all faiths to worship freely and openly. Twenty percent of Israeli citizens are not Jewish.

14. While Jews are not permitted to live in many Arab countries, Arabs are granted full citizenship and have the right to vote in Israel. Arabs are also free to become members of the Israeli parliament (the Knesset). In fact, several Arabs have been democratically elected to the Knesset and have been serving there for years. Arabs living in Israel have more rights and are freer than most Arabs living in Arab countries.

15. Israel is smaller than the state of New Hampshire and is surrounded by nations hostile to her existence. Some peace proposals -- including the recent Saudi proposal--demand withdrawal from the entire West Bank, which would leave Israel 9 miles wide at its most vulnerable point.

16. The oft-cited UN Resolution 242 (passed in the wake of the 1967 war) does not, in fact, require a complete withdrawal from the West Bank. As legal scholar Eugene Rostow put it, "Resolution 242, which as undersecretary of state for political affairs between 1966 and 1969 I helped produce, calls on the parties to make peace and allows Israel to administer the territories it occupied in 1967 until 'a just and lasting peace in the Middle East' is achieved. When such a peace is made, Israel is required to withdraw its armed forces 'from territories' it occupied during the Six-Day War -- not from 'the' territories nor from 'all' the territories, but from some of the territories."

17. Israel has, of course, conceded that the Palestinians have legitimate claims to the disputed territories and is willing to engage in negotiations on the matter. As noted above, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered almost all of the territories to Arafat at Camp David in 2000.

18. Despite claims that the Israeli settlements in the West Bank are the obstacle to peace, Jews lived there for centuries before being massacred or driven out by invading Arab armies in 1948-49. And contrary to common misperceptions, Israeli settlements -- which constitute less than two percent of the territories -- almost never displace Palestinians.

19. The area of the West Bank includes some of the most important sites in Jewish history, among them Hebron, Bethlehem, and Jericho. East Jerusalem, often cited as an "Arab city" or "occupied territory," is the site of Judaism's holiest monument. While under Arab rule (1948-67), this area was entirely closed to Jews. Since Israel took control, it has been open to people of all faiths.

20. Finally, let us consider the demand that certain territories in the Muslim world must be off-limits to Jews. This demand is of a piece with Hitler's proclamation that German land had to be "Judenrein" (empty of Jews). Arabs can live freely throughout Israel, and as full citizens. Why should Jews be forbidden to live or to own land in an area like the West Bank simply because the majority of people is Arab?

In sum, a fair and balanced portrayal of the Middle East will reveal that one nation stands far above the others in its commitment to human rights and democracy as well as in its commitment to peace and mutual security. That nation is Israel.


http://www.aish.com/jewishissues/mid...iddle_East.asp
Reply

Amadeus85
05-26-2007, 06:12 PM
Out of 270 million Arab people, some 67 million stepped into the twenty-first century without being able to read or write. More political will and public debate on the region's efforts to abolish literacy are needed.
Today 40 per cent of adults in the Arab region are illiterate. And projections show that if current efforts continue, 28 per cent of the region's population will still be illiterate in 2015.


But the situation varies significantly between countries. The greatest numbers of illiterates are in five countries: Egypt, Sudan, Algeria, Morocco, and Yemen where roughly 49 of the 67 million illiterate adults live. This constitutes 73 per cent of all illiterates in the twenty-two Arab countries. Ten Arab countries, namely Jordan, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Djibouti, Oman, Qatar, Kuwait, Lebanon, the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya and Mauritania account for only 3.6 million illiterates.

What is more alarming is that the rates of illiteracy among women, youth, and the underprivileged sectors of society are even higher, particularly in rural regions. In Yemen, for example, 54 per cent of the country’s 9 million people are illiterate and the figure increases to about 90 per cent among women and 76 per cent among men in rural areas, according to the National Committee for Literacy.

http://portal.unesco.org/education/e...CTION=201.html
Reply

جوري
05-26-2007, 06:12 PM
lol-- thanks for quoting me the not so biased "Jewish issues site"... does double blinded hypocrisy nullify itself?
at least I had the decency to quote from non Islamic sites, so you wouldn't go screaming agenda and bias. I can paint quite a disparaging picture of your friends from multitudes of Islamic websites --I really do have to maintain, you must be 5 and have wasted enough of my time!
Reply

Amadeus85
05-26-2007, 06:17 PM
Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
lol-- thanks for quoting me the not so biased "Jewish issues site"... does double blinded hypocrisy nullify itself?
at least I had the decency to quote from non Islamic sites, so you wouldn't go screaming agenda and bias. I can paint quite a disparaging picture of your friends from multitudes of Islamic websites --I really do have to maintain, you must be 5 and have wasted enough of my time!

You should rather consider those facts that i showed, and yes actually i have just turned 5 :)
Reply

جوري
05-26-2007, 06:18 PM
What does illiteracy have to do with this topic? You don't have illiteracy here in America as well as poverty? Japan is actually more advanced than America, they have eliminated the last of the illiterates. How many youths here drop out and get into gangs and violence? Try to compose yourself before you write little boy, unless you are hoping this thread gets closed while displaying the all too familiar vulgar display of how much you hate Muslims-- and btw, since you do, there is a million blog site out there to foster your views, and deficient grammar.
Reply

جوري
05-26-2007, 06:22 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
You should rather consider those facts that i showed, and yes actually i have just turned 5 :)
you haven't given me "facts", you have given me the subjective veiws of Jews a la mode of a Jewish website-- again a simple google search can undo all of it. It all depends on your bias and point of view!

happy bday
Reply

Amadeus85
05-26-2007, 06:24 PM
[QUOTE=PurestAmbrosia;748715]What does illiteracy have to do with this topic? You don't have illiteracy here in America as well as poverty? Japan is actually more advanced than America, they have eliminated the last of the illiterates. How many youths here drop out and get into gangs and violence? Try to compose yourself before you write little boy, unless you are hoping this thread gets closed while displaying the all too familiar vulgar display of how much you hate Muslims-- and btw, since you do, there is a million blog site out there to foster your views, and deficient grammar.[/QUOT

Chill out a bit. I haven't offended anyone. And i am not going to do that.

When you criticize and bash Israel, everything is all right, but when i gave some contrarguements, you get mad. :rollseyes


So you think that defending Israel's right to exist means hating muslims? LOL !

I have more muslim close friends than you think, and although we disagree we respect each other.

You must accept that not all people in world wants Israel to be destroyed and all jews there killed.
Reply

Amadeus85
05-26-2007, 06:26 PM
Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
you haven't given me "facts", you have given me the subjective veiws of Jews a la mode of a Jewish website-- again a simple google search can undo all of it. It all depends on your bias and point of view!

happy bday
My birthday is in July, but thank You :D .
Reply

جوري
05-26-2007, 06:28 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85

Chill out a bit. I haven't offended anyone. And i am not going to do that.

When you criticize and bash Israel, everything is all right, but when i gave some contrarguements, you get mad. :rollseyes


So you think that defending Israel's right to exist means hating muslims? LOL !

I have more muslim close friends than you think, and although we disagree we respect each other.

You must accept that not all people in world wants Israel to be destroyed and all jews there killed.
I am not, nor have I EVER advocated the killing of civilians---I think you have missed the entire point.. but that is alright...

peace!
Reply

Amadeus85
05-26-2007, 06:35 PM
Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
I am not, nor have I EVER advocated the killing of civilians---I think you have missed the entire point.. but that is alright...

peace!
What about Hamas and Al-Aksa Brigades, do they do the right thing in your opinion? Are they true freedom fighters or terrorists in your opinion?
Reply

islamirama
05-26-2007, 06:45 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
What about Hamas and Al-Aksa Brigades, do they do the right thing in your opinion? Are they true freedom fighters or terrorists in your opinion?

Hamas is a resistance grouop against occupation of thei country. IF they were terrorists why would the public elect them as leaders of their country, it is the coward west that lables "terrorist" to any resistance groupo that stands up for it's freedome and fights injustice and oppression of the west and their allies.
Reply

Amadeus85
05-26-2007, 06:56 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
Hamas is a resistance grouop against occupation of thei country. IF they were terrorists why would the public elect them as leaders of their country, it is the coward west that lables "terrorist" to any resistance groupo that stands up for it's freedome and fights injustice and oppression of the west and their allies.
I am sorry but i wasnt asking you. I was asking Purest Ambrosia. I guess that for you even Al Qaeda is a resistance group.
Reply

Cognescenti
05-26-2007, 06:56 PM
Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
what B.S-- I have done quite a bit of work with Médecins Sans Frontières, and I know exactly how mismanaged "Aid money" gets spent when it comes to aid to palis or Africans.. but that is besides... seems like you spent quite a bit of time with the thesaurus here.. so we'll leave things as such, I can think of at least three better ways of spending my Saturday.

peace

oh before I go parting words from your friend Ariel Sharon:
Mismanaged foreign aid? Yes..that is sort of the point, isn't it? Funny how aid to the PA is "mismanaged" but aid to Israel explains every Israeli success. Hmmm?

Thesaurus?? ***** you :)

Sharon? Did it occur to you he may have been speaking to a domestic audience? Besides, I wonder how often you cite Sharon as an expert opinion on other matters?

Saturday? You do have a good point there. I am off to saw up a bunch of Escallonia shrubs I forgot to water for a year.

As you say,

Peace!
Reply

Cognescenti
05-26-2007, 07:01 PM
BTW..is there any way to turn off the "subscribe" option on this website?

Permanently, as a default, I mean. I am getting spammed :)
Reply

جوري
05-26-2007, 07:07 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
I am sorry but i wasnt asking you. I was asking Purest Ambrosia. I guess that for you even Al Qaeda is a resistance group.
let's put it this way-- if I were living in Palestine and my life touched by tragedy daily as such-- and that was my home bombed or my mother murdered G-D forbid, I can't imagine what that family's grief is like, then I'd not grow up to be anything but a suicide bomber or a member of a resistance party-- there is a psychology to this.. you can't understand or relate to it, simply because you are not living it... I'd make it my business to snipe an IDF solider per day, until I am dead, I can't imagine a tomorrow with those conditions, and I'd be too filled with grief and anger to ever forgive or resolve it---I know of several Americans, and I am not talking Rachel cori, I am talking people I actually know, who have gone there for peace rallies, one of them a lawyer, and was shot in the head by IDF just for marching where they didn't want him-- these people are ruthless.. all who have gone have suffered indignation, and it much worst for the natives.. Anyhow this isn't a topic about Israeli/ Arab conflict.. I have no interest in entertaining this topic beyond this point-- the issues will remain unresolved and you have no hope in hell of swaying my opinion one way or the other, and I concede the same of mine to you. So let's call it a day!

peace!
Reply

جوري
05-26-2007, 07:10 PM
Originally Posted by Cognescenti
Mismanaged foreign aid? Yes..that is sort of the point, isn't it? Funny how aid to the PA is "mismanaged" but aid to Israel explains every Israeli success. Hmmm?

Thesaurus?? ***** you :)

Sharon? Did it occur to you he may have been speaking to a domestic audience? Besides, I wonder how often you cite Sharon as an expert opinion on other matters?

Saturday? You do have a good point there. I am off to saw up a bunch of Escallonia shrubs I forgot to water for a year.

As you say,

Peace!
you should really question at which check points it is confiscated to understand how it is being mismanaged! Why don't you go water your bush -pity it is neglected for a whole year!-
Reply

جوري
05-26-2007, 07:15 PM
Originally Posted by Cognescenti
BTW..is there any way to turn off the "subscribe" option on this website?

Permanently, as a default, I mean. I am getting spammed :)
Indeed-- after watering your bush-- eh maybe even before... if it is been a while? Go to your LI "subscriptions" and check them all at once, (click delete) and then you are home free!:threadclo
Reply

Cognescenti
05-26-2007, 07:31 PM
Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
Indeed-- after watering your bush-- eh maybe even before... if it is been a while? Go to your LI "subscriptions" and check them all at once, (click delete) and then you are home free!:threadclo
Thanks for that and for the horticultural advice, but I mean is there anyway to permanently make "no subscrition" the default for any future posts?

My apologies in advance to the mods :)
Reply

جوري
05-26-2007, 07:38 PM
Why not ask the mods that your account be disabled?-- or do you wish to have a thunderous exit?

Anything to do with your actual email, can be easily managed by your Internet provider-- type in the name of the addresses from which you don't wish to receive emails.. it is really so simple oh learned one!
Reply

Keltoi
05-26-2007, 09:32 PM
Originally Posted by Cognescenti
Thanks for that and for the horticultural advice, but I mean is there anyway to permanently make "no subscrition" the default for any future posts?

My apologies in advance to the mods :)
You do it with the control panel(User CP). Go to options, and the rest should be self explanatory.
Reply

Grace Seeker
05-27-2007, 12:03 AM
I don't see the revelance of Israel or Palestians to a survey of American Muslims, other than that of course they will have opinions about them both. But as far as the value of the survey, and what we might learn from it, that has to do with the science and integrity of the survey process itself, not events outside the USA.
Reply

Cognescenti
05-27-2007, 12:19 AM
Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
I don't see the revelance of Israel or Palestians to a survey of American Muslims, other than that of course they will have opinions about them both. But as far as the value of the survey, and what we might learn from it, that has to do with the science and integrity of the survey process itself, not events outside the USA.
Except perhaps that the Iraeli-Pelstinian conflict seems to shape every discussion about the realtionsihsip of Islam vis a vis the "West" or, more specifically, of the raltionship of the US with the Islamic world. It seems to trump Iraq, Afghanistan, Al Quaeda, 9-11..you name it.
Reply

جوري
05-27-2007, 12:41 AM
^^ you are on to something.. one more bottle of this stuff you are drinking and by golly you've almost got it!
Reply

KAding
05-27-2007, 01:39 PM
I thought this thread was about US Muslims?
Reply

Keltoi
05-27-2007, 04:15 PM
Originally Posted by Cognescenti
Mismanaged foreign aid? Yes..that is sort of the point, isn't it? Funny how aid to the PA is "mismanaged" but aid to Israel explains every Israeli success. Hmmm?

Thesaurus?? ***** you :)

Sharon? Did it occur to you he may have been speaking to a domestic audience? Besides, I wonder how often you cite Sharon as an expert opinion on other matters?

Saturday? You do have a good point there. I am off to saw up a bunch of Escallonia shrubs I forgot to water for a year.

As you say,

Peace!
By the way, I don't even bother responding to the supposed Ariel Sharon "quote" anymore, as it has been debunked as a hoax.
Reply

wafa islam
05-28-2007, 10:35 AM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
Out of 270 million Arab people, some 67 million stepped into the twenty-first century without being able to read or write. More political will and public debate on the region's efforts to abolish literacy are needed.
Today 40 per cent of adults in the Arab region are illiterate. And projections show that if current efforts continue, 28 per cent of the region's population will still be illiterate in 2015.


But the situation varies significantly between countries. The greatest numbers of illiterates are in five countries: Egypt, Sudan, Algeria, Morocco, and Yemen where roughly 49 of the 67 million illiterate adults live. This constitutes 73 per cent of all illiterates in the twenty-two Arab countries. Ten Arab countries, namely Jordan, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Djibouti, Oman, Qatar, Kuwait, Lebanon, the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya and Mauritania account for only 3.6 million illiterates.

What is more alarming is that the rates of illiteracy among women, youth, and the underprivileged sectors of society are even higher, particularly in rural regions. In Yemen, for example, 54 per cent of the country’s 9 million people are illiterate and the figure increases to about 90 per cent among women and 76 per cent among men in rural areas, according to the National Committee for Literacy.

http://portal.unesco.org/education/e...CTION=201.html
Peace,

None of us are jew-haters, anti-semitic or whatever the word is. I have a jewish cousin, and I find no problem being with her.

Our noble prophet Muhammad, was married to a Jewish woman. And all Muslims respect her. He defended her when some Arabs said bad things about her.

I am a non Arabic muslim. Don't think that all Muslims are arabs. A very small percentage of Muslims live in Arabic countries. In fact, there are more muslims in Indoneasia than in Saudi Arabia. And if you want to see Islam and true Muslims you don't necessarily look into the Middle-East, because Muslims are everywhere.

Islam denies extremism, racism, anti-semitism, radicalism. You should not judge Islam, by those people you see in the media. These are not muslims.

And the fact that many Arab countries are illiterate, has noting to do with the religion of Islam. Come on, these two things are not even connected !!

And never call Islam a anti-semitic religion. Some few muslims might be anti-semitic, but don't draw Islam into this.


Finally I think it is nice that you discuss with Muslims. Although you off-topic a little bit. (The part where you say that Israel has many engineers and is highly educated, and that Arabs are illiterate, has nothing to do with the title of this thread.)

I like discussing things with my Christian friends, but never do I say hostile things about their religion. Don't attack any religion my dear friend.

Why all the discussion when suicide is haram! Period!
Very true brother.
Reply

Cognescenti
05-28-2007, 02:53 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
Out of 270 million Arab people, some 67 million stepped into the twenty-first century without being able to read or write. More political will and public debate on the region's efforts to abolish literacy are needed.
Today 40 per cent of adults in the Arab region are illiterate. And projections show that if current efforts continue, 28 per cent of the region's population will still be illiterate in 2015.


But the situation varies significantly between countries. The greatest numbers of illiterates are in five countries: Egypt, Sudan, Algeria, Morocco, and Yemen where roughly 49 of the 67 million illiterate adults live. This constitutes 73 per cent of all illiterates in the twenty-two Arab countries. Ten Arab countries, namely Jordan, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Djibouti, Oman, Qatar, Kuwait, Lebanon, the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya and Mauritania account for only 3.6 million illiterates.

What is more alarming is that the rates of illiteracy among women, youth, and the underprivileged sectors of society are even higher, particularly in rural regions. In Yemen, for example, 54 per cent of the country’s 9 million people are illiterate and the figure increases to about 90 per cent among women and 76 per cent among men in rural areas, according to the National Committee for Literacy.
Aj caramba! That does explain a few things.
Reply

wilberhum
05-28-2007, 07:35 PM
Originally Posted by wafa islam
Peace,

None of us are jew-haters, anti-semitic or whatever the word is.
Please define US. Is US, you and your brother?
Reply

islamirama
05-28-2007, 07:45 PM
I think this thread is waaaaay off topic. can't believe this thread even went as long as it is going. What a waste of time....
Reply

Muezzin
05-29-2007, 09:17 PM
Originally Posted by KAding
I thought this thread was about US Muslims?
So did I.

Originally Posted by islamirama
I think this thread is waaaaay off topic.
So do I.

Originally Posted by Luke Skywalker
I'm here with Ben Kenobi!
So am I.

Actually, no I'm not.

But the fact remains this thread has been driven off-topic and there is little to add to it. Therefore, I'm closing it.
Reply

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