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Chechen
05-23-2007, 10:58 AM
The press-service of organization CKNS for protection of human rights, has received news that the mass poisoning of Chechen children at schools of Shelkovsko district is a result of chemical weapons usage by the Russian special services.



98 % of cases have been "unknown" illness, which has struck women and girls. The features of illness include asthma, dizziness, hysterics, extreme excited conditions, inflammation of mucous membranes of eyes, dryness in mouth, increased blood pressure, loss of consciousness. More than 100 persons were admitted in regional hospitals. Symptoms for all were identical.



Later when the patients were being admitted in hospitals in mass numbers, a number of commissions were set up to investigate the reasons of the disease but it was ineffective.



However the invaders and Chechen munafiqs have declared that the disease « is a result of stress, and a post-war syndrome ». However none of the commissions have answered to the following questions:



1. Why the stresses started within a day and only at schools?



2. Why the stress has not extended onto other inhabitants of the district in form of psychosis or chain reaction, and continues with those who fell ill earlier?



3. Why 98 % of the illness can be seen with girls and women?



4. Why this stress cannot be seen at schools of those areas where active operations with massive destructions took place and where victims number a lot?



The press-service CKNS informs that during one of these days the organization received from its sources that invaders' special services were acting on territories of occupied CRI. They also reported of additional data on mass poisoning of children from schools of Shelkovsko district, which resulted in a number of victims due to the monstrous experiment.



The source was at loss to tell, which chemical element has been used during carrying out of experiments with children, but does not doubt that the component is an additive to chlorine which disinfect school bathrooms.



The source also has informed that this special action has been carried out with participation of so-called "chemists" from the Russian special services which are based in territory of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria. The poison was not reflected in any way in boys, and influenced only girls.



"Children can be sent to school, but it is necessary to know, when the next experiments will occur "- an employee of special services added at the end of conversation.



But who knows when these experiments will occur again?

http://kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/.../23/8300.shtml
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Keltoi
05-23-2007, 03:35 PM
This seems highly speculative. Not saying the Russians aren't capable of it, but without some solid evidence, besides the circumstantial kind, it is hard to accept as true at face value.
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Amadeus85
05-23-2007, 05:06 PM
Me and most people from my country,Poland, always supported Chechenya struggle against Russia's imperialism. We were in the same situation during many many years in past. It is really sad that Chechen's people had to suffer so much because Russia couldnt reject its imperialistic politics. I hope that one day Chechenya will be free and fully independent country, just like my country is now.
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Akil
05-23-2007, 06:16 PM
I donno if this is true, but I wouldn’t doubt it. Putin’s Russia is little different than Stalin’s Soviet Union.
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Cognescenti
05-23-2007, 11:27 PM
I am skeptical. A chemical agent that only affects women???? :?

What the heck is it..Love Potion Number Nine? A super-pheromone? A super-progestin?

Unless it was somehow selctively administered to women and has no effect on secondary contacts, or the women had some environmental exposure where the men would experinece no exposure, I find it hard to believe.

Other possible explanations....mythology...mass hysteria
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wilberhum
05-24-2007, 12:30 AM
Chechen children being tested with chemical weapons
98 % of cases have been "unknown" illness
They don't know what the illness is yet, with no evidence, they know what caused it.
Interesting. :skeleton:
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Philosopher
05-24-2007, 01:19 AM
I'm sure it was true. Putin is one sick mofo.
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wilberhum
05-24-2007, 04:40 AM
Originally Posted by Philosopher
I'm sure it was true. Putin is one sick mofo.
Where or not he is "one sick mofo" or not, does not make hem responsible for every made up situation. :? :?
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AHMED_GUREY
05-24-2007, 09:52 AM
Originally Posted by Cognescenti
I am skeptical. A chemical agent that only affects women???? :?

I find it hard to believe.
Kill the Queenbees and the bee threat is gone

Chechen men are a threat to Russian Hegemony in Caucasia and if they succeed in their quest for statehood many other oppressed groups will follow the same path, therefore there targeting the strong Chechen women who are the backbone of Chechen society and if this story is true there now trying to wipe them all out:cry:

(Insha-allah i'm wrong) but if this sinister plan is been put in motion then Putin and his henchmen are disgusting *bleeps* who should burn in hell
Reply

SATalha
05-24-2007, 10:53 AM
Can all these people be acting? get real! there is something going on in Chechnya and you know that the Russians love their poison!!!
Check this article out:

Poison in the air


When a sinister illness hit schoolchildren and their teachers in war-torn Chechnya in December, doctors were convinced it was a case of poisoning. Then the government came up with its own diagnosis - mass hysteria. Is there an official cover-up going on? Anna Politkovskaya reports

Wednesday March 1, 2006
The Guardian


A war has been raging in the north Caucasian Republic of Chechnya in the Russian Federation since November 1994. Over the years, officials in Moscow have given the war various names. Sometimes it is called "putting the region in order"; since the beginning of the international "anti-terrorist" era, it has become a "counter-terrorist operation". But it is never called a war, despite the fact that an estimated 70,000-200,000 Russian military personnel are conducting operations as if on enemy territory. The civilian population has taken the brunt of the military impact. For the past 12 years, those living and working in Chechnya have been aware that federal forces were testing new types of weapons. The story of what happened in the Shelkovsk district is simply the biggest such case.


Rest of the article can be found in: http://www.guardian.co.uk/chechnya/S...720522,00.html

(dont worry iam sure the Guardian is a credible source)
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Chechen
05-24-2007, 04:40 PM
Russians are trying to wipe out the Chechen nation but something the Russians don't like is that Chechens have a pretty quick birth rate. So what is the solution for their problem? Just make all Chechen women sick or better kill them so that they can't have Children anymore. That's why they test and use new weapons on Chechens.
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Cognescenti
05-24-2007, 06:02 PM
Originally Posted by Chechen
Russians are trying to wipe out the Chechen nation but something the Russians don't like is that Chechens have a pretty quick birth rate. So what is the solution for their problem? Just make all Chechen women sick or better kill them so that they can't have Children anymore. That's why they test and use new weapons on Chechens.
Look..I am not here to defend the Russians. They do like their poisons, but your claim of a selective chemical attack on women is a bit goofy. I can see a secret attack on the reproductive ability of a population of women (without other overt effects...assuming this is even possible) but the minute the target group is overtly sick it sort of destroys the secret part, don't you think? If every woman in Chechnya suddenly died don't you think the Russians would have some explaining to do? Besides, aren't there at least some women of Russian ethnicity within Chechnya? I suppose they are magically spared? If the Russians were wiiling to invite what would certainly be a massive worldwide condemnation by killing all the women and girls in Chechnya, why stop there? Why not kill the men too? They have the guns. After all, that is not science fiction...they have hundreds of tons of nerve agent just taking up warehouse space.
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Cognescenti
05-24-2007, 06:09 PM
Originally Posted by SATalha
Can all these people be acting? get real! there is something going on in Chechnya and you know that the Russians love their poison!!!
Check this article out:

Poison in the air


When a sinister illness hit schoolchildren and their teachers in war-torn Chechnya in December, doctors were convinced it was a case of poisoning. Then the government came up with its own diagnosis - mass hysteria. Is there an official cover-up going on? Anna Politkovskaya reports

Wednesday March 1, 2006
The Guardian


A war has been raging in the north Caucasian Republic of Chechnya in the Russian Federation since November 1994. Over the years, officials in Moscow have given the war various names. Sometimes it is called "putting the region in order"; since the beginning of the international "anti-terrorist" era, it has become a "counter-terrorist operation". But it is never called a war, despite the fact that an estimated 70,000-200,000 Russian military personnel are conducting operations as if on enemy territory. The civilian population has taken the brunt of the military impact. For the past 12 years, those living and working in Chechnya have been aware that federal forces were testing new types of weapons. The story of what happened in the Shelkovsk district is simply the biggest such case.


Rest of the article can be found in: http://www.guardian.co.uk/chechnya/S...720522,00.html

(dont worry iam sure the Guardian is a credible source)
Now THAT seems pretty bloody suspicious to me. Note this alleged incident meets a key criterion for environmental intoxication....geographic/spatial commonality among the victims.

Even worse...wasn't Anna Politkovskaya the Russian journalist who was murdered?
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SATalha
05-25-2007, 12:08 AM
Originally Posted by Cognescenti
Now THAT seems pretty bloody suspicious to me. Note this alleged incident meets a key criterion for environmental intoxication....geographic/spatial commonality among the victims.

Even worse...wasn't Anna Politkovskaya the Russian journalist who was murdered?

Yep she was the journalist that was bruetly murdered by the Russian guvernment, for being outspoken about the human rights violation that takes place in Chechnya. You see its a very very dangerous game that a journalist must play, if they are to report about Chechnya.

Anyway I think that without question there is something more sinister going on in Chechnya that meets the eye. The world is to busy with other matters to remember Chechnya. Tell me how often do you hear about it in your news? barely!

Anyway hears another article you can read about the human rights abuse and dangers of reporting about chechnya......dont worry once again from a credible source...i know some you guys think that Islamic related sources are not credible (only joking):

Fear and loathing in an uncertain world


Saturday May 5, 2007
The Guardian


"Reading these two books, it becomes easier to understand why Anna Politkovskaya was murdered," wrote Anne Applebaum in the Spectator, reviewing A Russian Diary and A Small Corner of Hell. "It was not, after all, just the Kremlin who might have been upset by her truth-telling. It was the army, the security services, the Chechen collaborators, the Chechen terrorists ... Even her most ardent fans did sometimes find her gloom overbearing. But now, after her death, it is impossible to read her books and not feel the same sense of foreboding. Her life, and her murder, were so much like one of the stories she would have told herself." "This volume could be described as her testament," said Mary Dejevsky in the Independent of A Russian Diary. "She completed it shortly before her death. But there is no sense at all, in content or style, that it is her last work. The afterword headed 'Am I Afraid?' might seem prophetic. In fact, it tells of her fear for Russia, not for herself."

Rest of the article can be found in http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/s...072438,00.html
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Cognescenti
05-25-2007, 05:45 AM
Putin actually laughed when asked about her murder. I wouldn't trust that guy to park my car. The guy has the eyes and smirk of a sociopath.
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SATalha
05-25-2007, 02:29 PM
So can you understand now that this man is capable of anything. People tend to forget that this natio still has excellent science and can produce things that we aint even heard of!!!!
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Chechen
05-25-2007, 04:38 PM
Originally Posted by Cognescenti
Look..I am not here to defend the Russians. They do like their poisons, but your claim of a selective chemical attack on women is a bit goofy. I can see a secret attack on the reproductive ability of a population of women (without other overt effects...assuming this is even possible) but the minute the target group is overtly sick it sort of destroys the secret part, don't you think? If every woman in Chechnya suddenly died don't you think the Russians would have some explaining to do? Besides, aren't there at least some women of Russian ethnicity within Chechnya? I suppose they are magically spared? If the Russians were wiiling to invite what would certainly be a massive worldwide condemnation by killing all the women and girls in Chechnya, why stop there? Why not kill the men too? They have the guns. After all, that is not science fiction...they have hundreds of tons of nerve agent just taking up warehouse space.

If every Chechen women sudenly died right now I don't think many people would care. You wouldn't probably even hear about it on the news. I mean you have women and children in Chechnya dying, being tortured and raped everyday but you don't hear much about Chechnya. And you ask why they don't kill the men who have the weapons? Because men with weapons can actually fight back but the Russians don't want all that trouble so they just rather kill all the defensless civilians.
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Keltoi
05-25-2007, 09:50 PM
If there was a chemical agent involved, wouldn't an autopsy or blood test find evidence of a chemical toxin in the body? Has this been attempted yet?
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Chechen
05-25-2007, 10:28 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
If there was a chemical agent involved, wouldn't an autopsy or blood test find evidence of a chemical toxin in the body? Has this been attempted yet?

Well for most of the people, they just got unknown sicknesses and doctors tested them but couldn't find the reason. As for autopsy, it is not permitted.
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SATalha
05-25-2007, 11:51 PM
Think back to the Litvanyeko case...how long did it take for the drs to find out what the guy was suffering from. This is a place where they do not have the same facilities? So maybe they jus can tell?
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Cognescenti
05-26-2007, 01:16 AM
Originally Posted by SATalha
So can you understand now that this man is capable of anything. People tend to forget that this natio still has excellent science and can produce things that we aint even heard of!!!!
I would say Putin would have no moral check on anything that might become available to him, but that doesn't mean the Russians are supermen.

They used an utterly amazing Fentanyl aerosol at the Ballet "rescue" but the screwed up the dose and the their planning was incredibly poor.

I am still very skeptical of an immediate-acting selective agent for women only because I am having a hard time imagining how that could be done.
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Joe98
05-26-2007, 01:42 AM
Originally Posted by Chechen

As for autopsy, it is not permitted.

Why is that?

-\
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Chechen
05-26-2007, 01:12 PM
Originally Posted by Joe98
Why is that?

-\
It's islamically not permitted, Chechens never do autopsies.
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vpb
05-26-2007, 01:16 PM
:sl:

Br Abdul Raheem Green explains in this video about the situation in Chechenya, already 1/4 of the population are dead from the Russians.

250, 000 chechens = dead

Media Tags are no longer supported
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SATalha
05-27-2007, 10:23 AM
Bro could you sort out the link. I would really like to see it.
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vpb
05-27-2007, 10:24 AM
:sl:

Bro could you sort out the link. I would really like to see it.
can't u see the video??
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SATalha
05-27-2007, 10:26 AM
No. when it doesnt give the option to go to youtube....you know in usual links it has that point finger thing?
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vpb
05-27-2007, 10:29 AM
:sl:

sorry bro

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z4tpoiByv8

is this what you're looking for?
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SATalha
05-27-2007, 10:34 AM
Jazakallah Khair.
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SATalha
05-27-2007, 10:39 AM
I completly missed this last year. Thanks bro.
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Joe98
05-27-2007, 11:54 PM
Originally Posted by Chechen
It's islamically not permitted, Chechens never do autopsies.

Then the cause of death is speculation.

The cause of death could also be called "conspiricay theory".

Conspiracy theories are not allowed.
-
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جوري
05-28-2007, 12:12 AM
Originally Posted by Cognescenti
I am skeptical. A chemical agent that only affects women???? :?
lots of things should not be taken or handled by women the drug Finasteride, as an example, and that is a fairly common med no "conspiracy theories" involved... why is it so difficult to fathom that there are chemical agents that affect women only? or is it because it has to do with Muslims, and anything to do with them is oh so far out and inconceivable??
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wilberhum
05-28-2007, 12:41 AM
Surly there is no one here who thinks Russia has been nice to Chechnya. There is no shortage of facts to support atrocities.

But who questions that this is anything but a “Conspiracy Theory”.

After 4 days, no one, I mean I can find no other news source has reported on this.
Early on I posted:
They don't know what the illness is yet, with no evidence, they know what caused it.
While searching the subject today I found this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kavkaz_Center
Kavkaz Center
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Kavkaz Center (KC) is an Internet publication that claims to be "a Chechen independent international Islamic internet agency".
The KC was founded in March 1999 in the city of Grozny, by the National Center for Strategic Research and Political Technologies, headed by Movladi Udugov, former Minister of Information of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria and current leader of a "national information service". [1] The self-proclaimed mission of the site is to provide news and commentary of interest to Muslims. Critics say that it serves largely to spread Chechen rebel propaganda and disinformation, and to promote Udugov's personal political aims.


I have no desire to defend Russia nor do I have any desire to minimize the atrocities committed against the Chechens.

I don’t have any desire to support lies and “Conspiracy Theories” either.
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Cognescenti
05-28-2007, 05:18 AM
Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
lots of things should not be taken or handled by women the drug Finasteride, as an example, and that is a fairly common med no "conspiracy theories" involved... why is it so difficult to fathom that there are chemical agents that affect women only? or is it because it has to do with Muslims, and anything to do with them is oh so far out and inconceivable??
Oh...I can completely believe that one could design a chemical agent that was hormonally active (an estrogen agonist or antagonist for eg.). It might even be possible to develop some type of aerosol or put it in the village water supply...but to have it affect 95+% of all the women and prepubertal girls in one place at the same time with an abrupt onset seems a bit of a stretch to me.

The only thing that seems plausible if there was some cultural practice that allowed the selective contamination of the women with some more general agent (like a nerve agent) when the men weren't around (like a religous service, for eg.)
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vpb
05-28-2007, 11:06 AM
I have no desire to defend Russia nor do I have any desire to minimize the atrocities committed against the Chechens.

I don’t have any desire to support lies and “Conspiracy Theories” either.

do you support this conspiracy theory?
(i've put the link through google so it is translated from russian to english)
http://translate.google.com/translat...language_tools
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Trumble
05-28-2007, 11:25 AM
Originally Posted by Chechen
It's islamically not permitted, Chechens never do autopsies.
There's a thread in 'comparative religion' where Woodrow and Purest Ambrosia seem to think differently. Surely the circumstances here would fall well within the areas they describe, which seem perfectly sensible?
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Chechen
05-28-2007, 01:29 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Surly there is no one here who thinks Russia has been nice to Chechnya. There is no shortage of facts to support atrocities.

But who questions that this is anything but a “Conspiracy Theory”.

After 4 days, no one, I mean I can find no other news source has reported on this.
Early on I posted:

While searching the subject today I found this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kavkaz_Center
Kavkaz Center
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Kavkaz Center (KC) is an Internet publication that claims to be "a Chechen independent international Islamic internet agency".
The KC was founded in March 1999 in the city of Grozny, by the National Center for Strategic Research and Political Technologies, headed by Movladi Udugov, former Minister of Information of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria and current leader of a "national information service". [1] The self-proclaimed mission of the site is to provide news and commentary of interest to Muslims. Critics say that it serves largely to spread Chechen rebel propaganda and disinformation, and to promote Udugov's personal political aims.


I have no desire to defend Russia nor do I have any desire to minimize the atrocities committed against the Chechens.

I don’t have any desire to support lies and “Conspiracy Theories” either.

Of course you won't hear about it anywhere else because nobody wants to talk about Chechnya or tell about the truth of what's happening in Chechnya the only place you'll hear about Chechnya is from Chechen sources and if you don't trust them and don't want to read what they have to say then you will never hear anything about Chechnya. As for Kavkazcenter it is the official website of the Chechen rebels and they are the first ones who get information about new attacks on Russian forces, they get the interviews of Chechen commanders and you might not agree with me but they are the only source which you can trust. Or you can just listen to the western sources who talk about Chechnya about once a year and when they do it's just to call us terrorists, islamists and all that.
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Chechen
05-28-2007, 01:36 PM
Originally Posted by Trumble
There's a thread in 'comparative religion' where Woodrow and Purest Ambrosia seem to think differently. Surely the circumstances here would fall well within the areas they describe, which seem perfectly sensible?

Yeah I heard that in some cases you're allowed to do autopsies but in Chechnya they never did it and still refuse to do it, it's considered bad and useless in our country. And the women that are sick right now they haven't died they just have unexplainable sicknesses and many tests have been made but nobody can even tell what the sicknesses are. The Russians say that it is a result of stress and post war syndrome but they didn't manage to answer these questions:

1. Why the stresses started within a day and only at schools?

2. Why the stress has not extended onto other inhabitants of the district in form of psychosis or chain reaction, and continues with those who fell ill earlier?

3. Why 98 % of the illness can be seen with girls and women?

4. Why this stress cannot be seen at schools of those areas where active operations with massive destructions took place and where victims number a lot?
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Cognescenti
05-28-2007, 03:25 PM
Originally Posted by Chechen
3. Why 98 % of the illness can be seen with girls and women?

?
I just thought of something. Are Chechen classrooms segregated by sex?

I do have a general question for you Chechen? What, exactly do you want the US to do about Chechnya? The US single-handedly (almost) defeated the Soviet Union. You think Putin is hard on Muslims? Putin is a piker compared to Stalin.

Do you want us to nuke the Kremiln? The US saves the Bosnian Muslims (finally..because nobody else would do it)....snoresville. The US saves the Muslims in Kosovo...zzzzzzzzzzz. The US Navy leads the rescue effort in Aceh......yaaawwwn. 3000 Americans are incincerated or crushed or fling themseleves out of 100 story high windows in Manhattan......there is jubilation in the streets of Jordan and the West Bank.


Do you notice a pattern here?
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vpb
05-28-2007, 03:33 PM
I just thought of something. Are Chechen classrooms segregated by sex?

I do have a general question for you Chechen? What, exactly do you want the US to do about Chechnya? The US single-handedly (almost) defeated the Soviet Union. You think Putin is hard on Muslims? Putin is a piker compared to Stalin.

Do you want us to nuke the Kremiln? The US saves the Bosnian Muslims (finally..because nobody else would do it)....snoresville. The US saves the Muslims in Kosovo...zzzzzzzzzzz. The US Navy leads the rescue effort in Aceh......yaaawwwn. 3000 Americans are incincerated or crushed or fling themseleves out of 100 story high windows in Manhattan......there is jubilation in the streets of Jordan and the West Bank.


Do you notice a pattern here?
it's not about helping military, but your countries and all other countries call the chechen freedom fighters as terrorists, you see where the point is? the only thing that they help chechenyans is with propaganda against them. and please do not talk about Bosnia or Kosova, cuz you know nothing. Have you been there?. The life in both places is even worse than before apart from no killings, cuz everything else is messed up. Even a soldier who fought against serbians , now is saying "it was better with serbians than now". can you imagine? Smart people are being pushed, and the corrupted and dumb ones are being put on high positions. so plz don't make comments on thing which you have no knowledge.
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جوري
05-28-2007, 03:48 PM
Originally Posted by Cognescenti
Oh...I can completely believe that one could design a chemical agent that was hormonally active (an estrogen agonist or antagonist for eg.). It might even be possible to develop some type of aerosol or put it in the village water supply...but to have it affect 95+% of all the women and prepubertal girls in one place at the same time with an abrupt onset seems a bit of a stretch to me.

The only thing that seems plausible if there was some cultural practice that allowed the selective contamination of the women with some more general agent (like a nerve agent) when the men weren't around (like a religous service, for eg.)
With all due respect, it seems like the only thing plausible, because you don't know enough about science, biological or chemical warfare!-- Reading a wikipdea article or doing a quick search on a medication I have posted doesn't qualify you as scientist or provide you with enough information to understand the Pharmacokinetics, further we are not talking about pharmaceutical agents here, we are not talking about things having gone through 4 phases of trials with testing of LD, or ED and FDA scrutiny, we are talking about chemical ware fare!
No one gains anything from your beliefs or what you deem plausible-- I don't take you as the type who would march into the United Nations and demand that such atrocities be halted anyway or writing to your local congressman to shed light on this, so your skepticism or this is a stretch but phony empathy, is really not going to help anyone.

You can sit here and speculate, about the probability, the impossibility oh what could those agents be, it challenges your mind, So you look for the first satisfactory simple answer. That is how the human mind works when something is beyond conception, and we all know you are a concrete thinker !
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جوري
05-28-2007, 04:12 PM
p.s.. I love that bit about U.S saving Bosnian Muslims... that is why entire villages were torched down.. where was the U.S at the massacre at Srebrenica?http://www.haverford.edu/relg/sells/...rebrenica.html

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L10474756.htm
Reuters
Fri, 10 September 2004

More Srebrenica victims found in Bosnia mass grave

By Maja Zuvela

BLJECEVO, Bosnia, Sep 10 (Reuters) -- Forensic experts say they
have found the remains of dozens of Muslims massacred at Srebrenica
during Bosnia's ethnic war in a mass grave near the eastern town.

Team member Ismet Music said 103 complete or incomplete bodies
had so far been exhumed from the grave on a hill above the village
of Bljecevo, with clothes and other belongings of the victims
scattered on the surface. Documents found at the site showed
they were from Srebrenica.

He is a member of the missing persons commission of the
Muslim-Croat federation, one of two autonomous Bosnian regions
to emerge from the 1992-95 conflict.

"We have found a lot of clothes ... that indicate these were
civilians of different ages who tried to escape through the woods
after the fall of Srebrenica," he said standing by the grave.

Up to 8,000 Muslim men and boys were killed in three days after
Bosnian Serb forces overran the town in July 1995, Europe's worst
massacre since World War II.

The UN war crimes tribunal in The Hague has indicted wartime
Bosnian Serb leader Radovan Karadzic and his military commander
Ratko Mladic for genocide in Srebrenica.

Two of the world's most wanted men both remain at large.

Nine years after the war, mass graves holding victims of ethnic
cleansing and other atrocities are still found regularly.

More than 16,000 people remain unaccounted for.

Music said the bodies unearthed in Bljecevo had been moved from
another site in an attempt to cover up the killings.

A separate grave some 20 metres away yielded 366 complete or incomplete
remains of Muslims killed in the Srebrenica area when it was exhumed
last month.

The two sites were found near a cemetery officially opened by
former U.S. President Bill Clinton last year, where 1,327 identified
Srebrenica victims have been buried so far.

Another Muslim-led forensics team said on Friday they had recovered
109 bodies from a site in north-western Bosnia, believed to be Muslims
killed in Serb detention camps in 1992.
__________________________________________________ __________________
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...xae10109021510


[PHOTO]: Bosnian Muslim woman, Zumreta Sehomerovic, covers her face
as she looks at human remains in an attempt to identify her husband Omer
who has been missing since July 1995, at a mass-grave site in the village
of Bljecevo, near the Eastern-Bosnian town of Bratunac, 50 kms north of
Sarajevo, Bosnia, on Thursday, Sept. 2, 2004. Forensics experts believed
that this mass grave contains the remains of over 200 people. Most of
the remains are believed to be those of Muslims from Srebrenica killed
in July 1995 during the fall of Srebrenica. The site is a so-called
secondary grave, where bodies initially buried elsewhere were dumped.
(AP Photo/Amel Emric)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...xae10409021531

[PHOTO]: Bosnian Muslim Sabaheta Fejzic looks on while a Bosnian forensic
expert Murat Hertic inspects clothes in an attempt to identify remains of
her husband Saban and son Rijad, missing since July 1995, at a mass grave
site in the village of Bljecevo, near the eastern Bosnian town of
Bratunac, 50 kms north of Sarajevo, Bosnia, on Thursday, Sept. 2, 2004.
Forensics experts believe this mass grave contains over 200 body remains
and it is considered to be a secondary mass grave. Most of the remains
are believed to be those of Muslims from Srebrenica killed in July 1995
during the fall of Srebrenica. A so-called secondary grave is where
bodies initially buried elsewhere were dumped. (AP Photo/Amel Emric)

so please save me the phony bologna, of how you have come to save the day
Reply

vpb
05-28-2007, 04:16 PM
PurestAmbrosia, sis do you know what they do? they leave in war till you have no power even to say "help", and then they come and help you , so after they kick the occupator, they become an occupator themselves, and if you tell them "can you please go, i want to have my country and governm it myself" they say to you "shhhh, we saved you. do you want to get back where you were" , and you just have to shush and do whatever they say. when a masaccre happened in kosovo, the head of OSCE , mr.Walker cried when he was present at the scene where the masacree happened, and guess what after a short period, they took him off the position. so these are just lies, which people are pretty much fooled by that we help we help.
Reply

جوري
05-28-2007, 04:39 PM
Originally Posted by vpb
PurestAmbrosia, sis do you know what they do? they leave in war till you have no power even to say "help", and then they come and help you , so after they kick the occupator, they become an occupator themselves, and if you tell them "can you please go, i want to have my country and governm it myself" they say to you "shhhh, we saved you. do you want to get back where you were" , and you just have to shush and do whatever they say. when a masaccre happened in kosovo, the head of OSCE , mr.Walker cried when he was present at the scene where the masacree happened, and guess what after a short period, they took him off the position. so these are just lies, which people are pretty much fooled by that we help we help.
I know exactly what they do akhi...I am not unfamiliar with war torn regions. All I can say is La 7wla wla qiwta ila billah. Allah Akbar min kol kabeer....
I detest visiting this section, just because it makes my blood boil. You don't need the validation of these pompous froufrous.. sitting in their home mandating who deserves to be saved and who deserves to be killed.

رَبَّنَا وَلاَ تُحَمِّلْنَا مَا لاَ طَاقَةَ لَنَا بِهِ وَاعْفُ عَنَّا وَاغْفِرْ لَنَا وَارْحَمْنَا أَنتَ مَوْلاَنَا فَانصُرْنَا عَلَى الْقَوْمِ الْكَافِرِينَ {286}

Don't worry akhi... I know it will get worst before it gets better.. but there is still worst according to the prophecies of the end, We'll lose Constantinople, Iraq and Syria...

Abu Nadhrah (R.A.) narrates:

"We were sitting in the company of Jabir bin Abdullah (R.A.) when he said: 'Soon the people of Iraq will neither receive any food (grain) nor any money.'" We asked, "Why would such a thing happen?" He replied, "Because of the non-Arabs." (i.e they will prevent food from going into Iraq, in the form of "sanctions" - to this day.) He then said: "Soon the people of Shaam (Syria) will neither receive any money nor grain." We asked as to why this would happen. He replied: "Because of the Romans." -
Revealed 1400 years ago; source:Sahih Muslim, Book 40, Number 6961
source

if you see this is happening-- then rest assured as Allah wills, the rest too shall happen. we'll rise again by G-D's will-- So hang to tough, we will get through this... I don't have hope it will happen in my generation, but it will insha'Allah!
:w:
Reply

vpb
05-28-2007, 04:42 PM
I know exactly what they do akhi...I am not unfamiliar with war torn regions. All I can say is La 7wla wla qiwta ila billah. Allah Akbar min kol kabeer....
I detest visiting this section, just because it makes my blood boil. You don't need the validation of these pompous froufrous.. sitting in their home mandating who deserves to be saved and who deserves to be killed.

رَبَّنَا وَلاَ تُحَمِّلْنَا مَا لاَ طَاقَةَ لَنَا بِهِ وَاعْفُ عَنَّا وَاغْفِرْ لَنَا وَارْحَمْنَا أَنتَ مَوْلاَنَا فَانصُرْنَا عَلَى الْقَوْمِ الْكَافِرِينَ {286}

Don't worry akhi... I know it will get worst before it gets better.. but there is still worst according to the prophecies of the end, We'll lose Constantinople, Iraq and Syria...

Abu Nadhrah (R.A.) narrates:

"We were sitting in the company of Jabir bin Abdullah (R.A.) when he said: 'Soon the people of Iraq will neither receive any food (grain) nor any money.'" We asked, "Why would such a thing happen?" He replied, "Because of the non-Arabs." (i.e they will prevent food from going into Iraq, in the form of "sanctions" - to this day.) He then said: "Soon the people of Shaam (Syria) will neither receive any money nor grain." We asked as to why this would happen. He replied: "Because of the Romans." -
Revealed 1400 years ago; source:Sahih Muslim, Book 40, Number 6961
source

if you see this is happening-- then rest assured as Allah wills, the rest too shall happen. we'll rise again by G-D's will-- So hang to tough, we will get through this... I don't have hope it will happen in my generation, but it will insha'Allah!
yeah, exactly, and someone comes and starts philosofying about something which they have no knowledge.
recently UNMIK - United Nations Mission in Kosova, burned 5 people , and also during the protests they used plastic bullets inside with metal which are forbidded to be used anymore in world, but they used in kosova, and guess what two people got killed. What's the difference between UN and former genocide of serbian police?? they behave the same.
Reply

جوري
05-28-2007, 04:51 PM
Originally Posted by vpb
yeah, exactly, and someone comes and starts philosofying about something which they have no knowledge.
recently UNMIK - United Nations Mission in Kosova, burned 5 people , and also during the protests they used plastic bullets inside with metal which are forbidded to be used anymore in world, but they used in kosova, and guess what two people got killed. What's the difference between UN and former genocide of serbian police?? they behave the same.
I don't know what the use of the UN is really? I find the organization sort of laughable.. You have any idea how many laws Israel has broken or is in defiance of? yet so quick to enforce them when it comes to anyone else .. It is a funny little organization meant to stroke Israel's ********.. read this page, by a united Nations diplomat, he is actually a Christian (Arab)-- they threatened him, called him a Muslim as if an insult lol, he picked the right moment to reveal that he isn't Muslim, he and his kid keep receiving death threats, it is most amusing.
http://www.users.cloud9.net/~recross/israel-watch/
Reply

vpb
05-28-2007, 05:15 PM
UN

Media Tags are no longer supported



Serbian policemen




any difference on their behaviour?
Reply

جوري
05-28-2007, 05:23 PM
Only G-D knows what other awful things go on, that aren't caught on film....
:w:
Reply

vpb
05-28-2007, 05:25 PM
Only G-D knows what other awful things go on, that aren't caught on film....
they have used bullets which are forbidded in the whole world. but they try them in kosova. this is the UN. law-following organization.
Reply

barney
05-28-2007, 05:33 PM
Ivan is definatly capable of it. They poisioned a guy with radiation in a london resteraunt in a very obvious , horrible and open way, remember?

Could also be a leak from a Chemical plant and theyre covering it up? They cover up pretty much everything.
Reply

جوري
05-28-2007, 05:35 PM
Originally Posted by vpb
they have used bullets which are forbidded in the whole world. but they try them in kosova. this is the UN. law-following organization.
Don't you know the laws of the Geneva convention and honoring international human rights laws don't apply to Muslims?... you need to Roll over a shaded area to read that section in with fine print. it will let you know all is permitted when it comes to extinguishing Muslim life.. Time for the Arab world, and the rest of the Muslim world to wake up. These people aren't our friends.. The "New middle east" that they have in mind excludes Muslims, I.e. all 1.86 billion of us-- so they snip here and snip there, and do it by all means, chemical, psychological, media, financial, sanctions. Sometimes I wish I can go give a Friday sermon and wake this slumbering umma up....:raging:
Reply

vpb
05-28-2007, 05:42 PM
Don't you know the laws of the Geneva convention and honoring international human rights laws don't apply to Muslims?... you need to Roll over a shaded area to read that section in with fine print. it will let you know all is permitted when it comes to extinguishing Muslim life.. Time for the Arab world, and the rest of the Muslim world to wake up. These people aren't our friends.. The "New middle east" that they have in mind excludes Muslims, I.e. all 1.86 billion of us-- so they snip here and snip there, and do it by all means, chemical, psychological, media, financial, sanctions. Sometimes I wish I can go give a Friday sermon and wake this slumbering umma up....
who do u want to talk to? to born-muslims who don't approve the permission for a mosque to be built? but they approve for a cethedral to be built? we are in this position not bc of the kafiroon, but bc of the munafiqoon. The munafiqs are what are causing all this problem today.
Reply

جوري
05-28-2007, 05:47 PM
Originally Posted by vpb
who do u want to talk to? to born-muslims who don't approve the permission for a mosque to be built? but they approve for a cethedral to be built? we are in this position not bc of the kafiroon, but bc of the munafiqoon. The munafiqs are what are causing all this problem today.
I don't know, anyone who will listen.. Sometimes I am shocked at the Lebanese programming I see on the LBC, it is as if they are completely oblivious to the world around them... it is really no wonder we are in this predicament globally. Do you think this would have been the case if we had at least Khalid ibn Ilwaleed in our midst.
It is disheartening the affairs of the Muslims. I am terribly saddened by it. All I can offer is volunteer my time and help only in my area of expertise or give charity-- I really don't know what else is in my hand to do. I wish every Muslim would change.. but change has to come from within if we are to improve. I can't evoke this same sentiment in me to others who would rather dance and play and lead a secular life!
Reply

vpb
05-28-2007, 05:52 PM
I don't know, anyone who will listen.. Sometimes I am shocked at the Lebanese programming I see on the LBC, it is as if they are completely oblivious to the world around them... it is really no wonder we are in this predicament globally. Do you think this would have been the case if we had at least Khalid ibn Ilwaleed in our midst.
It is disheartening the affairs of the Muslims. I am terribly saddened by it. All I can offer is volunteer my time and help only in my area of expertise or give charity-- I really don't know what else is in my hand to do. I wish every Muslim would change.. but change has to come from within if we are to improve. I can't evoke this same sentiment in me to others who would rather dance and play and lead a secular life!
you need some one like Omer ibn Khattab r.a . :)
Reply

Cognescenti
05-28-2007, 06:13 PM
Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
With all due respect...
Guy, why do you bother with the feigned civility then proceed to make inferences about me on very little information, insult my intelligence (literally), accuse me of insincerity and cowardice and...let's see, did I leave anything out?


As it happens, I am a medical doctor, and I have attended several conferences given by the CDC to train physicians on chemical and biological warfare agents. I have also done quite a bit of reading on the subject. I was recently revaccinated with smallpox vaccine as a designated first responder for a large Children's Hosptial (this is before the CDC stopped doing it because of severe side effects :phew . I know more about pharmacology and epidemiology and toxicology than it seems you are willing to ascribe to me. By the way, the reason finasteride is dangerous to women is not because it will cause them to fall to the ground incapacitated, but because of the quiet effect it may have on a male fetus (not to be discovered until many months later). Perhps you should try Google.

we are talking about chemical ware fare!
Maybe we are, maybe we aren't.
Are the Russians ruthless at times? Yes.
Do the Chechens have a legitimate complaint about Russian colonialism and oppression? Yes
Do the Russians have genocidal plans against the Chechens? Perhaps.
Do they have mystical powers? Not since Rasputin. They still have to obey the laws of physics and chemisty.

If you have an explanation that doesn't involve the supernatural, I am listening. I admit they are a clever bunch of poisoners but this particualr claim seems to have more than a little propaganda feel.

No one gains anything from your beliefs or what you deem plausible-- I don't take you as the type who would march into the United Nations and demand that such atrocities be halted anyway or writing to your local congressman to shed light on this, so your skepticism or this is a stretch but phony empathy, is really not going to help anyone.

You can sit here and speculate, about the probability, the impossibility oh what could those agents be, it challenges your mind, So you look for the first satisfactory simple answer. That is how the human mind works when something is beyond conception, and we all know you are a concrete thinker !
Thanks pal. You are a gentleman and a scholar. Sorry to have rained on this crime against humanity. At your suggestion, I started to write my Congressman but then I remembered he isn't in the Russian Parliament. Perhaps you have other suggestions. What are you doing about Chechnya, for example? Can I borrow the signs you made for your protest in front of the Russian Embassy?
Reply

جوري
05-28-2007, 06:31 PM
Originally Posted by Cognescenti
Guy, why do you bother with the feigned civility then proceed to make inferences about me on very little information, insult my intelligence (literally), accuse me of insincerity and cowardice and...let's see, did I leave anything out??
I am not a guy for starters... yes-- perhaps we can add blindness to the list? as for the rest I do believe it to be an adequate assessment of self -- yes!

Originally Posted by Cognescenti
As it happens, I am a medical doctor, and I have attended several conferences given by the CDC to train physicians on chemical and biological warfare agents. I have also done quite a bit of reading on the subject. I was recently revaccinated with smallpox vaccine as a designated first responder for a large Children's Hosptial (this is before the CDC stopped doing it because of severe side effects :phew . I know more about pharmacology and epidemiology and toxicology than it seems you are willing to ascribe to me. By the way, the reason finasteride is dangerous to women is not because it will cause them to fall to the ground incapacitated, but because of the quiet effect it may have on a male fetus (not to be discovered until many months later). Perhps you should try Google.
Google?Doctor of feel good? lol seems like a dangerous place to do your research for a so-called pyhsician. I am not sure where I have mentioned finasteride leading women to fall to the ground incapacitated? perhaps you can point it out for me? other than that, I can do without your impressive list of accolades.



Originally Posted by Cognescenti
Maybe we are, maybe we aren't.
Are the Russians ruthless at times? Yes.
Do the Chechens have a legitimate complaint about Russian colonialism and oppression? Yes
Do the Russians have genocidal plans against the Chechens? Perhaps.
Do they have mystical powers? Not since Rasputin. They still have to obey the laws of physics and chemisty.

If you have an explanation that doesn't involve the supernatural, I am listening. I admit they are a clever bunch of poisoners but this particualr claim seems to have more than a little propaganda feel.



Thanks pal. You are a gentleman and a scholar. Sorry to have rained on this crime against humanity. At your suggestion, I started to write my Congressman but then I remembered he isn't in the Russian Parliament. Perhaps you have other suggestions. What are you doing about Chechnya, for example? Can I borrow the signs you made for your protest in front of the Russian Embassy?
I ain't your pal.. and I am a lady!.. what you do or don't do, isn't really my concern for starters you can start by butting out, not every post needs your flaccid input! If you have something of substance to impart then do so, if not spare me insolent replies!
Reply

barney
05-28-2007, 06:37 PM
Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
Don't you know the laws of the Geneva convention and honoring international human rights laws don't apply to Muslims?... :
Signatorys to the convention agree to abide by its terms and it applies to their conduct in war against non-signatorys. So thats just a kneejerk "oppressed muslim" response, rather than anything factual.

Again.
Reply

جوري
05-28-2007, 06:42 PM
Originally Posted by barney
Signatorys to the convention agree to abide by its terms and it applies to their conduct in war against non-signatorys. So thats just a kneejerk "oppressed muslim" response, rather than anything factual.

Again.
Really? the ever handy "google" can generate a thousand article over where the U.S fails to abide by the laws of the Geneva Convention, here is the first one to pop up for starters... At this rate, I am not sure what your definition is of a fact? Maybe you live in lala land?

US flouts world opinion and Geneva Convention in treatment of Afghan war prisoners
By Shannon Jones and Patrick Martin
23 January 2002
Use this version to print | Send this link by email | Email the author

The brutal treatment by the United States of Taliban and al Qaeda prisoners in its custody, who are being held in open-air cages at the Guantanamo naval base in Cuba, is provoking growing worldwide condemnation as a violation of international law.

The International Committee of the Red Cross said January 21 that those being held by American forces must be classified as prisoners of war under the Geneva Convention and were entitled to all the protections offered by it. The ICRC is the international body entrusted with enforcement of the Geneva Convention, and its decision is a political blow to the Bush administration.

Red Cross officials added that some of the terms used by the US government to describe the Afghan prisoners, such as “battlefield detainees,” have no legal meaning. The Red Cross has further charged that the US is abusing prisoners in Afghanistan, where it is holding 360 captured fighters in Kandahar in an unsheltered stockade, exposed to the bitter winter cold.

Amnesty International joined the Red Cross and other groups in asking the US government to define the prisoners as POWs. “It is not the prerogative of the Secretary of Defense or any other U.S. administration official to determine whether those held in Guantanamo are POWs,” the group said in a statement. “An independent US court, following due process, is the appropriate organ.”

The Bush administration and the Pentagon have employed makeshift and invented terms like “illegal combatant” to describe the prisoners, in order to disguise the fact that it is the US government, not the POWs, which is engaged in illegal activity.

Recognizing the POW status of the captured men would defeat the entire purpose of their removal from Afghanistan, which is aimed at facilitating intensive interrogation, drumhead trials before military tribunals, and prolonged imprisonment. Under the Geneva Convention, prisoners cannot be forced to reveal more than their name, rank, serial number and date of birth. Unless they are formally tried for war crimes, POWs must be returned to their home countries at the end of “active hostilities,” which could be very soon given the collapse of Taliban resistance in Afghanistan.

An earlier statement by Amnesty International suggested that the mistreatment of Afghan prisoners may itself constitute a war crime: “Any detainee who is suspected of a crime, whether or not they are POWs, must be charged with a criminal offense and tried fairly or released. Denying POWs or other people protected by the Geneva Conventions a fair trial is a war crime.”

Donald Rumsfeld, the US secretary of defense, dismissed the mounting criticism of US treatment of prisoners: “I do not feel even the slightest concern about their treatment. They are being treated vastly better than they treated anybody else.” This characterization is not only arrogant but concedes that the Bush administration’s policy is not based on any objective legal norms.

So weak is the US government’s legal position that the Washington Post published an editorial January 17 under the headline, “Follow the Geneva Convention.” It is remarkable that the principal newspaper in the US capital should find it necessary to advise the US government not to commit war crimes, even if that caution is couched in the most mealy-mouthed terms.

The Post admitted that Rumsfeld does not have a leg to stand on with his argument that the US is “for the most part” observing the Geneva Convention even though the detainees “do not have any rights under the Geneva Convention.”

“That is not the case,” the newspaper said. “The Geneva Convention and other international treaties ratified by the United States give the detainees specific rights, rights that the Bush administration should respect.

“The first right most of the prisoners have is for a hearing by a tribunal to determine whether or not they are prisoners of war. Despite Mr. Rumsfeld’s declaration, detainees cannot as a group be designated unlawful combatants by the secretary of defense; according to most interpretations of the Geneva Convention, in the case of a dispute about status, prisoners must have a hearing before a tribunal.”


Outrage in Europe

In Europe the position of the US government has provoked widespread outrage. British newspapers published photographs of the prisoners at Guantanamo, released by the US Navy, under captions labeling their treatment as “torture.” A columnist for the conservative British newspaper the Daily Mail wrote, “this is a bewildering and shocking experience. Even the SS were treated better than this.” The security chief of the European Union, Javier Solana, called for the detainees to be treated as POWs entitled to the protection of international law.

A US federal judge in Los Angeles agreed to hear a petition filed by the Committee of Clergy, Lawyers and Professors demanding that the US government bring the prisoners before a US court and spell out the charges against them. University of Southern California law professor Erwin Chemerinsky, a leader of the group, said, “These individuals were brought out of their country in shackles, drugged, gagged and blindfolded, and are being held in open-air cages in Cuba. Someone should be asserting their rights under international law.”

There was one significant public defense of the brutal treatment of the prisoners: from Senator Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut, the Democratic candidate for vice president in 2000. After a briefing at Central Command headquarters at MacDill Air Force Base in Florida, he told reporters, “I think our military is doing just the right thing in the way they are handling them at Guantanamo. These are violent killers. They are already threatening the American personnel who are there to guard them.”

The US treatment of the Afghan prisoners violates international law in many respects. The US says that it will carry out “intense interrogation” of captured fighters. But Article 17 of the Geneva Convention states, “No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted, or exposed to unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind.”

As a columnist for the Toronto Star wrote, “Those detainees, brought shacked, shaved and blindfolded to Cuba, are kept in chain link pens under the constant glare, night and day, of halogen lamps (The blindfolding, deliberate disorientation, discomfort and constant light are staples of police states all over the world. The idea is to break down the inmate, weaken him from lack of sleep and thereby make him more pliable when the interrogators begin their work.)”


POWs and the Geneva Convention

The Bush administration plan to use secret military tribunals to try captured al Qaeda and Taliban is a further violation of international law. Article 84 of the Geneva Convention stipulates: “In no circumstances whatever shall a prisoner of war be tried by a court of any kind which does not offer the essential guarantees of independence and impartiality as generally recognized, and in particular, the procedure of which does not afford the accused the rights and means of defense provided for in Article 105.”(Right to choose own counsel, right to call witnesses)

Article 102 further enumerates the rights of prisoners of war to a fair trial: “A prisoner of war can be validly sentenced only if the sentence has been pronounced by the same courts according to the same procedures as in the case of members of the armed forces of the Detaining Power.”

And article 107 the Geneva Convention stipulates: “Every prisoner of war shall have, in the same manner as the members of the armed forces of the Detaining Power, the right of appeal or petition from any sentence pronounced upon him, with a view to the quashing or revising of the sentence or the reopening of the trial.”

Under terms of Article 130 grave breaches of international law include “willfully depriving a prisoner of war of the rights of fair and regular trial presented in this convention.”

The housing of prisoners in open-air, chain-link cages six feet by eight feet with concrete floors is both inhuman and a violation of minimum standards set by the Geneva Convention. Article 25 stipulates: “Prisoners of war shall be quartered under conditions as favorable as those for the forces of the Detaining Power who are billeted in the same area....

“The foregoing provisions shall apply in particular to the dormitories of prisoners of war as regards both total surface and minimum cubic space, and the general installations, bedding and blankets.

“The premises provided for the use of prisoners of war individually or collectively shall be entirely protected from dampness and adequately heated and lighted, in particular between dusk and lights out....

The US is violating both terms of the Geneva Convention and the Vienna Convention on Consular Access in holding captives incommunicado and refusing to release their names. Article 70 of the Geneva convention states: “Immediately upon capture, or not more than one week after arrival in camp, even if it is a transit camp ... every prisoner of war shall be enabled to write direct to his family, on the one hand, and to the Central Prisoner of War Agency, on the other hand ... informing his relatives of his capture, address and state of health.”

The Geneva Convention stipulates that all prisoners, regardless of their exact status, be treated humanely.

Article 4 outlines broad terms under which captured belligerents must be considered prisoners of war. These include irregular forces such as “Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps” and “Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or authority not recognized by the detaining powers.”

Article 5 stipulates that disputes over the status of prisoners cannot be unilaterally decided by the Detaining Power but must be arbitrated by third parties: “Should any doubt arise as to whether persons, having committed a belligerent act and having fallen into the hands of the enemy, belong to any categories enumerated in Article 4, such persons shall enjoy the protection of the present Convention until such time as their status has been determined by a competent tribunal.”

Further, prisoners may not be indefinitely detained following the end of hostilities. Under terms of the Geneva Convention those held must be either repatriated or charged with specific crimes.

The Bush administration actions violate even official US military policy. According to Army regulations, “Leaders and soldiers must be knowledgeable of the Geneva and Hague conventions, applicable protocols, AR (Army Regulations) and US laws.”

“The US policy demands that all persons who are captured, detained, or held by US forces during conflict be treated humanely. This policy applies from the moment captives are taken until they are released, repatriated or transferred.”

A 1994 Department of Defense document on the treatment of prisoner of war states: “It is DoD policy that: 1 The U.S. Military Services shall comply with the principles, spirit, and intent of the international law of war, both customary and codified, to include the Geneva Conventions.”


Source
Reply

Cognescenti
05-28-2007, 06:46 PM
Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
I am not a guy for starters...
Sorry. I refuse to take any responsibility for that. Good luck to you.


I can do without your impressive list of accolades. ...
You are the one who assailed my knowledge on the subject.



... If you have something of substance to impart then do so, if not spare me insolent replies!
Insolent ? :rollseyes You aren't Queen of something, are you?

Don't you mean "something of substance that agrees with me"? I wish they would just label a thread as "echo chamber only" if divergent opinion is not permitted.
Reply

Cognescenti
05-28-2007, 07:02 PM
Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
p.s.. I love that bit about U.S saving Bosnian Muslims... that is why entire villages were torched down.. where was the U.S at the massacre at Srebrenica......
so please save me the phony bologna, of how you have come to save the day
The US wasn't at Srebenica. That is my point. That was a typically naive and weak UN mission. The Dutch troops just working under UN rules just handed over the Bosnian Muslims to be slaughtered by the Serbs.

It took the US to finally do something definitive. That the situation there is not perfect only shows the difficulty of unraveling a genocidal war half way through. Where were the great Muslim Armies to save the Bosnian Muslims? There weren't any. It fell to the US.

This kind of BS is why there will be no US military intervention in Darfur. There will be no US intervention in Chechnya either. There will be diplomatic pressure, new nations admitted to NATO, but that is it. The Europeans won't do anything vigorous either because they need Russian natural gas.
Reply

جوري
05-28-2007, 07:03 PM
I have no idea what to make of the above, but, I am not going to sit here and validate your delusions of adequacy! We can get back to the original thread, or if it has reached the end of its value, then it should be a

Reply

vpb
05-28-2007, 07:06 PM
It took the US to finally do something definitive. That the situation there is not perfect only shows the difficulty of unraveling a genocidal war half way through. Where were the great Muslim Armies to save the Bosnian Muslims? There weren't any. It fell to the US.
there were already some, also foriegn mujahideen, but how can you resist an army which is backed by Russia????
and of course US leaves itself till the end, so it can come and say "he're coming the papa to save you" .

US government and UN are the same thing. there are different as much as the color of my hands.
Reply

vpb
05-28-2007, 07:07 PM
I have no idea what to make of the above, but, I am not going to sit here and validate your delusions of adequacy! We can get back to the original thread, or if it has reached the end of its value, then it should be a
yeah, it's like trying to argue with the wall, and telling it that you are painted in white.
Reply

جوري
05-28-2007, 07:08 PM
[QUOTE=Cognescenti;750316]The US wasn't at Srebenica. That is my point. That was a typically naive and weak UN mission. The Dutch troops just working under UN rules just handed over the Bosnian Muslims to be slaughtered by the Serbs.

It took the US to finally do something definitive. That the situation there is not perfect only shows the difficulty of unraveling a genocidal war half way through. Where were the great Muslim Armies to save the Bosnian Muslims? There weren't any. It fell to the US.
[QUOTE]

They were dismantled, I thought that whole point was to have a secular Muslim empire?... well here it is in all its glory. and that is the outcome. Spare me the BS about U.S. or British beneficence. Just get out.. take your boys out before they lose their head and buzz off! Things would actually be a little less bad without further foreign meddling. You really need to get over the delusions that you are the good guys!
Reply

vpb
05-28-2007, 07:15 PM
the pictures of the dissapeard bodies are whitened from the sun, staying for years, where is US and UN on this?
ohhh, yes bc they don't profit anythng from finding the dissepeared bodies that were executed...
or maybe US army takes land of hectars from people, and kick them out to establish their base, one of the biggest bases in Balkan??? probably use them for transfering secret prisoners?? who knows.
or maybe a CIA secret angent becoming the president of a factory which has hugeee amount of minerals???
etc...

there is no "going to help", but there is "going to profit"
Reply

barney
05-28-2007, 07:16 PM
You forgot that the recreation room at gitmo diddnt provide bouncy enough balls. (One of the complaints of a inmate).

Fact is the Geneva convention as it is applied, dosnt allow for its members to break it against non-signatorys. Which was what you posted.
Does the US break it? Undoubtably. Badly break it? Mayby.
Are the Gitmo incarcerates POW's? Well they certainly acted for a state, yet they wore no uniform, to help them hide away from a open battle.

What code of conduct does Sudan follow? Afganistan under the taliban? Iran?

Its farcical to use the Geneva Convention to beat your happiest target,(apparently the great big bad satan the USA), when a whole slew of muslim nations have no code of behaviour at all.

I recognise that you get confused by my posts. Its a sure sign of people not being able to argue effectively with what I write, and feeling uncomfortable with that.
Take some time out and study it some more.
Reply

جوري
05-28-2007, 07:17 PM
Originally Posted by vpb

there is no "going to help", but there is "going to profit"
Agreed, this is globalization at its peak, and its best!
Reply

barney
05-28-2007, 07:20 PM
I served in Kosovo. Lots of KLA and Muslim civilians thanked us Brits for defending them.

I've never heard of a muslim from outside there since say a single word of thanks. It's too big a pill to swallow that we would kill christians to defend them.

As a British major said to the Mayor of Gorazde. " Imagine Liverpool was surrounded by muslims and being shelled. Would you help us ? Would you?"
Reply

vpb
05-28-2007, 07:20 PM
when a whole slew of muslim nations have no code of behaviour at all.
because we are experiencing lack of oxygen due to your propaganda and opression.
Reply

جوري
05-28-2007, 07:23 PM
Originally Posted by barney
You forgot that the recreation room at gitmo diddnt provide bouncy enough balls. (One of the complaints of a inmate).

Fact is the Geneva convention as it is applied, dosnt allow for its members to break it against non-signatorys. Which was what you posted.
Does the US break it? Undoubtably. Badly break it? Mayby.
Are the Gitmo incarcerates POW's? Well they certainly acted for a state, yet they wore no uniform, to help them hide away from a open battle.

What code of conduct does Sudan follow? Afganistan under the taliban? Iran?

Its farcical to use the Geneva Convention to beat your happiest target,(apparently the great big bad satan the USA), when a whole slew of muslim nations have no code of behaviour at all.

I recognise that you get confused by my posts. Its a sure sign of people not being able to argue effectively with what I write, and feeling uncomfortable with that.
Take some time out and study it some more.
lol... nothing quite like a self-aggrandizing fest.. perhaps you should take your posts else where, where they would be better understood, and agreed with. in the immortal words of Abraham Lincoln "He can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any man I know."
Reply

vpb
05-28-2007, 07:23 PM
Originally Posted by barney
I served in Kosovo. Lots of KLA and Muslim civilians thanked us Brits for defending them.

I've never heard of a muslim from outside there since say a single word of thanks. It's too big a pill to swallow that we would kill christians to defend them.

As a British major said to the Mayor of Gorazde. " Imagine Liverpool was surrounded by muslims and being shelled. Would you help us ? Would you?"
very true, what you said, you still have case where they name their kids "tonyblair" ;D which I laugh when I hear, but people at that time didn't know what was going on, but if you go now and ask a prominent architect who doesn't have enough money to pay electricity bills, he will tell you what this liberation meant to him, people thought that you were taking a occupator out, but you became occupator yourself.
Reply

barney
05-28-2007, 07:32 PM
We have no troops there.

What a Muslim led government makes of its own country after we rescued it isnt our affair. Sort it out whithout blaming the people who saved you.
The EU gave billions to Kosovo for reconstruction. and they still messed it up.
Reply

SATalha
05-28-2007, 07:33 PM
You know it would be easy to be appreciative to western nations if they went in to these lands with the right intentions. Looking at these incidents from an objective view point, we can see that that many private companies and individuals benefit greatly from war. In capitilsm war has become another money-making system and not a means for liberation, justice or independance. Clinton himself in his memoirs said that the thought of an islamic republic in the heart of Europe (Bosnia) was unthinkable.

As for the legitimacy of Kavkaz, say what you want. But at the end of the day the sources are very strong with first hand accounts of everyday life. Plus the Russains report their losses as well. And you can see that every week some form of battle takes place, when their is a loss amongst the Mujahideens they report it becuase they are happy for him. The individual that is killed in action is a martyr and will be amongst the people of the highest Jannah Inshallah.
Reply

جوري
05-28-2007, 07:36 PM
I happen to come from a country, that is very familiar with the sort of S***, that your England did in the name of benevolence. You can sell your crap else where, HERE we are not buying. Not all people are as small-minded as you'd hope or have a grip on political history a la mode of fox news...
here is a book you can read for starters. Don't come and tell me what morals you uphold during wars, I know the atrocities first hand from the mouths of the soliders of port saiid. My grand father happened to have been one fighting against your folk during your occupation. Your thievery, your immorality, your lack of ethics isn't forgotten!

Atrocities of justice under British rule in Egypt
by Wilfrid Scawen Blunt
Language: English Type: Book : Microform
Publisher: London : T.F. Unwin, 1906. | Other Editions ...
OCLC: 32790315 | Cite this Item
Subjects: Egypt -- Politics and government -- 1882-1952. | Egypt -- History -- British occupation, 1882-1936.
Review this Item

purchase book
Reply

barney
05-28-2007, 07:36 PM
Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
lol... nothing quite like a self-aggrandizing fest.. perhaps you should take your posts else where, where they would be better understood, and agreed with. in the immortal words of Abraham Lincoln "He can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any man I know."

Still not able to answer? Never mind!

And mods , if you delete this, can you delete purests posts of personal attacks as well. Theyre not really moving the debate along.
Reply

جوري
05-28-2007, 07:39 PM
Originally Posted by barney
Still not able to answer? Never mind!

And mods , if you delete this, can you delete purests posts of personal attacks as well. Theyre not really moving the debate along.
What is the matter little man? scared people would purchase a history book for a change over believing your grand delusions?
Reply

vpb
05-28-2007, 07:44 PM
We have no troops there.

What a Muslim led government makes of its own country after we rescued it isnt our affair. Sort it out whithout blaming the people who saved you.
The EU gave billions to Kosovo for reconstruction. and they still messed it up.
what government are you talking about??? a puppet government of EU and US??? a government where the prime minister goes at night in his office and finds his resign-paper already made???? a government were voting to take off the president of the parlament bc he said "UNMIK has to go home now", where the voters to take him off are constantly recieving SMS-s from US ambassy to vote to take him off??? a government where the UN policemen that killed the 2 guys in the protests go home without being charged for crime? whereas the organizator of the protests is still in jail?? a government where UN puts big walls in the centre of the city, looking like it some kind of secret place??? a government where we are told what to do with our cities and who should control them? a muslim government where they don't give permission to build a mosque? even to restaurate the oldest mosque which the wall paint is falling down at the head where imam prays?? a government which puts on position anti-islamic people???? ......etc etc....

The EU gave billions to Kosovo for reconstruction. and they still messed it up.
gave billions and recieved trillions, the mobile company is ripping off people in Kosova, and where with those money they pay their debts in monacco, they give billions and then you have the german caught on stealing 400,000 euros from the thermo central???? or soon getting minerals from the factory of trepca??? etc. etc..

you think, people think, they they invest, but they take more than what they invest. only ignorant and dumb people in my country and elsewhere would accept this BIG LIE.
Reply

SATalha
05-28-2007, 07:48 PM
Lets get back to the main point about Chechnya. It clear as daylight that the Russian Guv is trying to make sure that this fierce nation doesnt get back to its feet. But will they wipe out a whole nation? Proberbly not, as long as they have people like Kadyrov in power. But this man will not last long in power.
Reply

barney
05-28-2007, 07:51 PM
Right:
Our current debate is, You are saying that the geneva convetion dosnt apply to muslims.
You have no proof of that.
Read the Geneva Convention. It backs what I have stated about it.

I assume that your comment was just a rant about how muslims were oppressed. It's not based in any fact.

Copy and paste the Link that proves the Geneva Convention does not apply against Muslim nations.

Or alternatively just post some crud about my physical size. Because that shows what a great debater you are.
Reply

SATalha
05-28-2007, 07:53 PM
Hey who cares about the Geneva convention......no country.
Reply

barney
05-28-2007, 07:54 PM
Originally Posted by vpb
what government are you talking about??? a puppet government of EU and US??? a government where the prime minister goes at night in his office and finds his resign-paper already made???? a government were voting to take off the president of the parlament bc he said "UNMIK has to go home now", where the voters to take him off are constantly recieving SMS-s from US ambassy to vote to take him off??? a government where the UN policemen that killed the 2 guys in the protests go home without being charged for crime? whereas the organizator of the protests is still in jail?? a government where UN puts big walls in the centre of the city, looking like it some kind of secret place??? a government where we are told what to do with our cities and who should control them? a muslim government where they don't give permission to build a mosque? even to restaurate the oldest mosque which the wall paint is falling down at the head where imam prays?? a government which puts on position anti-islamic people???? ......etc etc....



gave billions and recieved trillions, the mobile company is ripping off people in Kosova, and where with those money they pay their debts in monacco, they give billions and then you have the german caught on stealing 400,000 euros from the thermo central???? or soon getting minerals from the factory of trepca??? etc. etc..

you think, people think, they they invest, but they take more than what they invest. only ignorant and dumb people in my country and elsewhere would accept this BIG LIE.
Your post came up blank, I took the precaution of wearing tinfoil around my head.
Reply

SATalha
05-28-2007, 07:58 PM
????????
Where is this thread leading to?
Reply

جوري
05-28-2007, 08:02 PM
I have posted tons of links and books, not even written by Muslims, but account of your own soldiers a thousands articles are a click away on google, perhaps it is falling on your blind spot? In which case there is really nothing I can do to remedy that. I can't blame you really, coming to grip with the fact that your home land is the devil's spawn your country men put Satan himself to shame. Anecdotes about my ability to debate or not, going into another one of your self-congratulatory fests and your cute little drive by shootings with your BB gun, is really not going to disprove the facts of the matter. You don't even need a Muslim account of your evil little empire, my Sikh friend could write chronicles on atrocities committed in India. I have no reason to believe that you are after anything but self-interest. Not then and certainly not now! Why would you have a sudden change of heart after monopolizing and dividing half the world?
Reply

جوري
05-28-2007, 08:04 PM
Originally Posted by barney
I took the precaution of wearing tinfoil around my head.
You go do that and while at it, wear an inflatable duck around your waist and salute your royal navy!
Reply

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