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Medina83
05-23-2007, 01:01 PM
Salam,
Now I am not agreeing with the author of this article in much that he says, ***however*** I do feel that we need to change the attitudes of our Ummah from the inside->out, particularly in respect to this kind of thing. Its shameful and disgraceful and a total lack of respect for human rights and for islam what some 'muslim' brothers are doing!

**I removed the article as there is truth mixed with fiction in it. Basically it comments on muslim men raping women and instances and attitudes reported in various countries.


BROTHERS! THIS KIND OF THING CANNOT CONTINUE!!

I am so embarrassed and appalled by these actions, and I do not want to get into an east/west debate! The point here is: Some Muslims are doing horrendous things in this world and the rest of us Muslims should be standing together in denouncing them!!

Mods - any east/west debate of womens rights etc is off topic for this thread so please delete as appropriate! A woman is a woman regardless of her faith and should not be raped whether she is walking around with a veil or a miniskirt!!!
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IbnAbdulHakim
05-23-2007, 01:02 PM
this made me sick :( audhubillah
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Medina83
05-23-2007, 01:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
this made me sick :( audhubillah
The article or what our so called muslim brothers are doing?!
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Snowflake
05-23-2007, 01:10 PM
This is horrifying and disgusting! Nowhere in Islam does it say that unveiled women are asking for rape, but that they are at more risk of being raped - which in no way justifies the act! :( :raging:
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00:00
05-23-2007, 01:20 PM
who recently sparked an international stir by pronouncing that women who do not veil themselves, and allow themselves to be “uncovered meat”, are at fault if they are raped.
Its true though, walking on the streets late at night, half naked.if they dressed properly you'll see less rapes. its common sense. So i don't know why the all getting angry over what the shaykh said, they know its true.

And when they catch the rapists, what do they give them, 2-3 yrs then they come out and do it again. they should kill dem, and dont say oh thats cruel we living in 21st century. cuz if happened to your daughter or wife you'd want them killed too.
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Medina83
05-23-2007, 01:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
:sl:
Umm...sister, you do realise that this is posted on a somewhat anti-Islamic site? Go to the main page and you will see a prominent link to Jihad-Watch.

The article itself is biased against Islam, it makes Islamic law to be unfair when that is not the case at all. Sure, people abuse it, but that doesn't mean it's Islam's fault.
As moderator I least expected you to start going off topic.

Whether the article or website or author is anti-islamic or not is irrelevant.
I said I dont agree with much the author wrote.
However no matter what kind of website its posted on or what kind of ignorant conclusion the writer makes about Islam based on these crimes, the fact remains,

Muslims are committing these horrendous acts.
It has to stop.
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Medina83
05-23-2007, 01:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by 00:00
Its true though, walking on the streets late at night, half naked.if they dressed properly you'll see less rapes. its common sense. So i don't know why the all getting angry over what the shaykh said, they know its true.
the part that I am angry over what the shaykh said is 'its their fault'.

It is purely the RAPER's fault that the woman got raped.

By walking around half-dressed she attracts attention of the wrong kind, as very few men can stop themselves from not looking. So why is it one man thinks a sleazy thing about her , another man RAPES her.

He chooses it , not her.
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Medina83
05-23-2007, 01:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslimah_Sis
This is horrifying and disgusting! Nowhere in Islam does it say that unveiled women are asking for rape, but that they are at more risk of being raped - which in no way justifies the act! :( :raging:
Well said sis elhamdulillah
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Snowflake
05-23-2007, 01:39 PM
Whether the article or website or author is anti-islamic or not is irrelevant.
I said I dont agree with much the author wrote.
However no matter what kind of website its posted on or what kind of ignorant conclusion the writer makes about Islam based on these crimes, the fact remains,

Muslims are committing these horrendous acts.
It has to stop.

^I agree

Sadly the fact remains that some people genuinely believe that women showing flesh are asking to be raped. No woman asks to be raped whatever she is wearing.

Its true though, walking on the streets late at night, half naked.if they dressed properly you'll see less rapes. its common sense. So i don't know why the all getting angry over what the shaykh said, they know its true.
So it's a woman's fault? That means men can go and rape women who aren't dressed right? It won't be his fault but hers? What an absurd way of thinking.
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00:00
05-23-2007, 01:47 PM
So it's a woman's fault? That means men can go and rape women who aren't dressed right? It won't be his fault but hers? What an absurd way of thinking.
NO.Its both of there fault, the women should dress modestly, and if she doesn't the man should control himself. and lower his gaze.

I'm just saying that there'll be less rapes if women dressed more modestly.
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islamirama
05-23-2007, 01:51 PM
It's a stupid article. And so are some of the remarks in here. I've seen that picture in several place so the web and now it ends up over here, on a anti-islam websites. Who can prove to me the validity of the statements made in there? I can take a picture of any women abused by domestic violence and put the same text on there. As for the shiekh guy, he's words are being taken way out of context by the aussie media and now these islamphobic kuffars on that site. If you want to know more about what the sheikh realy meant then ask the Muslims of his community. Here's a forum of australia, they'll be more than happy to clear the lies you like reading about your Muslim brothers from a kuffar site. http://www.idca.org.au/forum

Oh and Muslim is still a Muslim even if he commits rape, sinning does not put one side out of Islam. It just makes him a sinner, so lets stop the ignorant statements like "so called Muslim" shall we.
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Medina83
05-23-2007, 01:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by 00:00
NO.Its both of there fault, the women should dress modestly, and if she doesn't the man should control himself. and lower his gaze.

I'm just saying that there'll be less rapes if women dressed more modestly.
Really?!?!!

So very few women get raped in Pakistan or India or Saudi?
Don't be ridiculous!
Guys that rape dont do so on the spur of the moment because they are sparked by the sight of her! They go out and wait for a woman intentionally!

Its not her fault at all she got raped.
She can only be accused of dressing immodestly and attracting attention...not rape!
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IbnAbdulHakim
05-23-2007, 01:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Medina83
It is purely the RAPER's fault that the woman got raped..
i do NOT condone this behavious,a nd i wish every one of those rapists could be put to agonizing death, but i do NOT agree with your statement.

your telling me if that same woman was in full hijaab and guarded her modesty that she would still get raped?

:exhausted seriously...
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Medina83
05-23-2007, 01:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
What I object to, is the fact that you're forming ill conclusions about well respected sheikhs on the opinion of open haters of Islam.

Wrong again
What conclusion did i make exactly?


Islamirama, I dont care whether that picture is phony or real.
I've read enough reports of women muslim and non-muslim being raped to make me sick

For example:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21332543-2,00.html

The point I am making is nothing to do with whether the woman has the whole niqab or a bikini on, Muslim men must stop raping women, and we must call out together against it as a collective Ummah
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Umar001
05-23-2007, 02:00 PM
I think everyone here agrees that if a women was walking naked it does not mean she is asking for rape. What people are saying is that if she is walking naked then she should know that this world is not a perfect place thus people will take advantage.

I think my kids should be free to go to the park, play in the pools, but I also know that if there is a child molestor I would not let them, why? Not because they are asking to be molested if they go out alone, but because in the sick minds of some people that is a green light and gives them opportunity.

I think most people here agree with the above.

So let us work on how to stop it.

format_quote Originally Posted by Medina83
The point I am making is nothing to do with whether the woman has the whole niqab or a bikini on, Muslim men must stop raping women, and we must call out together against it as a collective Ummah
You know, some of us don't. I mean, it would be interesting to see the profile and percentage of these criminals. Don't you think, then we can come to know the reasons behind it. I have a feeling it is more cultural than islamic.
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islamirama
05-23-2007, 02:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Medina83
Wrong again
What conclusion did i make exactly?


Islamirama, I dont care whether that picture is phony or real.
I've read enough reports of women muslim and non-muslim being raped to make me sick

For example:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21332543-2,00.html

The point I am making is nothing to do with whether the woman has the whole niqab or a bikini on, Muslim men must stop raping women, and we must call out together against it as a collective Ummah
There's rapes in the world all the time. There's one every 2 minutes in the US alone. So you got issues with being women being raped, why are you here crying about it as if Muslim men are responsible for all of it? You are concerned about Muslim men raping but ok with non-Muslim men raping? that is what you are indicating from your posts. And just becuase someone is muslim doesn't mean they wer raised islamic. How many muslim (men and women) follow Islam today and how many you see at bars and fornicating and what not?

As for the news link of saudi women, what happend to her was sad but its' her fault in this as well like the judge said. What business did she have getting in a car with a non-mahram, there's even another news article that states she was meeting her bf or something. Normaly it's not the victim's fault but sometimes it is, don't set yourself up with your stupidity and you won't have to worry about it. Don't put you hand in boiling water and cry laterwards.

Do you have some personal issues on this topic that you started this thread?
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Medina83
05-23-2007, 02:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Al Habeshi

So let us work on how to stop it.



You know, some of us don't. I mean, it would be interesting to see the profile and percentage of these criminals. Don't you think, then we can come to know the reasons behind it. I have a feeling it is more cultural than islamic.
This is exactly my point.

Muslims should know better, we know the law and the truth from Allah subhana wa ta'ala.

Its equally unacceptable from non-Muslim men , I just expect more from Muslims.
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Umar001
05-23-2007, 02:42 PM
Yes, we are a family, one body, so we should be concerned about each other.

I think the main problem sister is the lack of knowledge and obedience.

It is simple for anyone to justify anything.

A bad person can use his sorroundings to justify his acts, I think the statements which are misquoted from people who preach are thus taken on by people who had the intentio in the first place to rape.

So we should look beyond this, what is it that rape provides? Satisfaction, Enpowerment? If those are the outcomes then we should look at why these people feel they need that type of satisfaction that type of empowerment, look at how they view women, look at their past, have they loved someone and been played around by them which in turn made them feel helpless thus they look for empowerment.
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Medina83
05-23-2007, 02:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama
There's rapes in the world all the time. There's one every 2 minutes in the US alone. So you got issues with being women being raped, why are you here crying about it as if Muslim men are responsible for all of it? You are concerned about Muslim men raping but ok with non-Muslim men raping? ?
Here comes the east/west debate I knew would happen.
Its unacceptable from any man , but especially from a Muslim man.


format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama
. How many muslim (men and women) follow Islam today and how many you see at bars and fornicating and what not? ?
You validated my point with your own comments. The point is if you are practising Islam you wouldnt be doing this, so these Muslim men should quit raping and start fearing Allah subhana wa ta'ala !!

format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama
. As for the news link of saudi women, what happend to her was sad but its' her fault in this as well like the judge said. What business did she have getting in a car with a non-mahram, there's even another news article that states she was meeting her bf or something. Normaly it's not the victim's fault but sometimes it is, don't set yourself up with your stupidity and you won't have to worry about it.
Again, point is muslims are raping women who are covered and who are not covered!!!!! Get this into your head :skeleton: or do you just want it to be the way you are describing so that men have free rein to rape uncovered women ?

format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama
. Don't put you hand in boiling water and cry laterwards. ?
Don't you realise that it will be the unrepentant rapists who might end up in boiling fire :statisfie and who will ultimately be the ones to cry. Allah subhana wa ta'ala is Just. :statisfie
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Medina83
05-23-2007, 03:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
Rape is rape. A rapist should be punished for his crimes, no matter what. Nobody can contest that. Even if the rapist uses something like "she wasn't covered" as his defence, that doesn't make the magnitude of his crime any less.

Your main point is to stop and bring to justice muslim people who rape and attempt to justify it by saying that what the women did made it lawful for them. I understand that, but I honestly think you could have done that better without linking that anti-Islamic article.
You're right, as Habeshi said, we are one body and we should be concerned about each other. We need to denounce rapists who use Islam to back-up their actions. It's just their intentional, malicious abuse of Islam for their own perverted reasons. Women should not be raped, nevermind their faith and whether they are dressed modestly or not. That is what you are trying to say.
Elhamdulillah, and barakaAllahu fiqh to you and Habeshi that is exactly what im saying.
I get so frustrated to see so little done within our worldwide community to stop these. I want to do something about this, but dont know where to start.

The link was not a good idea I admit, but the fact remains that we are leaving ourselves open as targets for hatred and ridicule by not taking a hardline with hard actions on our muslim brothers who rape. And we are letting the wrong view of Islam be propogated. Thats kinda why I put the link in.

When all these bigoted Kuffar make stupid hateful claims about Islam, people look at us to see what our response is? I dont ever see a response , a protest march in a Western country such as UK against Islamic goverments who are unjustly changing Shariah law and victimizing the girls who are raped.
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islamirama
05-23-2007, 03:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Medina83
Here comes the east/west debate I knew would happen.
Its unacceptable from any man , but especially from a Muslim man.
well you so wonderfully showed your resentment towards east and Muslim men as if they are the scum of the earth, thought i show you the there's worst men out there who love raping your muslim sisters in iraq, palestine, somalia and other such places, often 10 men to one poor girl. And you find the time to share your thoughts on these "so called Muslim men" while i haven't seen a thread from you concerning those at the mercy of the kuffar occupiers.




You validated my point with your own comments. The point is if you are practising Islam you wouldnt be doing this, so these Muslim men should quit raping and start fearing Allah subhana wa ta'ala !!
Yes, they should quite the haraam and join the fleet of the righteous. But guess what, the world isn't perfect. Allah gave us free will and some of them choose to use it to do evil. If they feared Allah they wouldn't have done it in the first place. But if you want to blame them then blame yourself as women of the society. No one has more influence on how a child grows up to be a man than the mother. When the Muslim women of our societies stop wasting their times in watching soaps and movies and gossiping and other haram stuff and actually study islam and live islam and teach islam, then will we see mujahids being raised. Yes, these Muslim men are bad but they are not the majority, but unpracticing women are though. Perhaps you shoudl focus your time and attention at them.



Again, point is muslims are raping women who are covered and who are not covered!!!!! Get this into your head :skeleton: or do you just want it to be the way you are describing so that men have free rein to rape uncovered women ?
"muslims are raping women" you speak as if its a widespread plague that no one is safe from. Has something personal happend to you that you went all gun ho on muslims all of a sudden?

A hindu captain came with his men to one kashmiri house, he call the man outside and had his soldiers hold the muslima man outside. He went inside and raped the wife, then he went upstair and raped a 10yr old girl who lost all sensation in her private area. How much do you know about rape victims in kashmir?

Ethopia invaded somalia recently with help from US. Soldiers were snatching veils of muslim women heads. 10 soldiers stoped a 18yr somali women and took turns raping her as she went blacking in and out. How much do you know about rape victims of somalia?

Iraqi women prison in iraq is used to toture and rape women everyday. Sometimes 20 times a day. They rape you, burn cigrettes on your breasts, torture your chest and private parts and physcially beat the hell out of you. They have women from 13yr to 50yr that are being raped. These women are hitting their heads against prison walls to kill themselves and the *******s in their stomachs from the kuffars. They have sent out plea letters asking the prison to be bombed and end their misery. How much do you know about these victims?

Zionists pigs have over 130,000 palestinian women and children in prisons. They rape the women and take pictures of the rape. then they show the pictures to the victim and tell her to keep her dam mouth shut and stay out of politics and protests and anything having to do with anti-israelism. These are their fav. tactics they have taught the hindus to use in kashmir and US forces to use in iraq. How much do you know about these palestinian rape victims?

I can go on and on, but you get the drift. right? So before you go whining about muslim men this and muslim men that, focus your attentions on more pressing matters and see what you can do for your sisters in those areas, who are in need of your voice.



Don't you realise that it will be the unrepentant rapists who might end up in boiling fire :statisfie and who will ultimately be the ones to cry. Allah subhana wa ta'ala is Just. :statisfie
Many will end up in hellfire, not just rapists. But yea rapists go to hellfire if they don't repent and what not, so let go of the topic unless you have personal vendetta to continue going?
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Umar001
05-23-2007, 03:30 PM
Am confused, I see it alot, someone says something about Muslims and another person says 'What about the Kuffar look at them'

This is exactly what my mum and I did, she would say 'try to be like such and such' and I would say 'Oh what about when that person smokes and so on' little did I realise that everyone has a fault and there is a time a place for everything.

Of course we dont want anyone raping our sisters, but this thread is nto about that.

Just because someone highlighted the problem about Muslim men raping doesnt mean that non Muslims dont rape. For goodness sake, let us be real, if we carry one like this then we never gona get anywhere.


At the same time, people should be careful of course others are sensitive to the fact that Muslims aint done all bad, and I took offence to it to, how do people think a Muslim man feels when they see, Muslim Men rape! So please becareful and good in speech!
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Medina83
05-23-2007, 03:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama
well you so wonderfully showed your resentment towards east and Muslim men as if they are the scum of the earth, thought i show you the there's worst men out there who love raping your muslim sisters in iraq, palestine, somalia and other such places, often 10 men to one poor girl. And you find the time to share your thoughts on these "so called Muslim men" while i haven't seen a thread from you concerning those at the mercy of the kuffar occupiers. ?
We should be better than them, thats all I have to say.
Of course Im well aware of the horrendous acts that Kuffar are doing to Muslim women and children!!
Point is Muslims are doing this aswell, so how are we differentiating ourselves from them???

And the outcry against the Kuffar is happening, look at all the outcry against Guantanemo for example. But what are we doing within our own camp?


format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama
No one has more influence on how a child grows up to be a man than the mother. When the Muslim women of our societies stop wasting their times in watching soaps and movies and gossiping and other haram stuff and actually study islam and live islam and teach islam, then will we see mujahids being raised. Yes, these Muslim men are bad but they are not the majority, but unpracticing women are though. Perhaps you shoudl focus your time and attention at them.
hmmmmm :rollseyes :? :omg:


The world is not perfect that doesnt mean we should sit back and say 'well thats what the world is coming to'. You sound like a NIMBY.


format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama
"muslims are raping women" you speak as if its a widespread plague that no one is safe from. Has something personal happend to you that you went all gun ho on muslims all of a sudden? .
It is a widespread plague !
Elhamdulillah there are more righteous muslim men than these disgusting beings.

And NO i've no personal reason just an innate sense of injustice, disappointment and feeling let down by these guys. Its like being stabbed in the back by your best friend and salt in the wound is brothers like you who just prefer to shift attention to whats being done to us instead of whats going on inside our own camp because it obviously makes you uncomfortable to examine our own ranks.

format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama
"So before you go whining about muslim men this and muslim men that, focus your attentions on more pressing matters and see what you can do for your sisters in those areas, who are in need of your voice. .
Any sister or woman who is raped by a Kuffar or a Muslim is deserving of our attention!. You want me to close my eyes to the actions of people I should call brothers? You are still not getting the point! We are rightly complaining about our treatment at the hands of these Kuffar, but not about our treatment at the hands of other Muslims!!! Why is this?!?!
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------
05-23-2007, 03:46 PM
:salamext:

This type of behaviour is disgusting.
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Muezzin
05-24-2007, 06:32 PM
People, please stick to the topic. I deleted some posts which were to do with slavery. While disproving misconceptions or outright lies about Islam is welcome, this thread is about a different topic.

Also, a general notice: disagreeing is fine, but insulting is not.
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islamirama
05-24-2007, 07:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Medina83
edited.................
Our friend muzzy boy here deleted my post since i had such a great reply to your last lame reply. I won't bother WASTING my time again typing all that up. It's worthless to even type anything on this forum knowing how it will be deleted anyways, quite point less to have a debate or share your thoughts. So you go ahead enjoy your pathetic thread, i'm out of here!
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Medina83
05-24-2007, 11:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamirama
Our friend muzzy boy here deleted my post since i had such a great reply to your last lame reply. I won't bother WASTING my time again typing all that up. It's worthless to even type anything on this forum knowing how it will be deleted anyways, quite point less to have a debate or share your thoughts. So you go ahead enjoy your pathetic thread, i'm out of here!
SubhanAllah
Salam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa baraktouh
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