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michaelconvert
05-23-2007, 07:05 PM
So if someone is not a Muslim they will go to the hell fire. What about my family? I can place the most perfect argument for Islam to them but thats not gonna make them convert. They have all been so conditioned to believe Christianity that it seems like it is no use. Its not just my family it is also my close friends. Last week when i was leaving from my last day of school i saw that i had locked my keys in my car. So my friend Mike did a good deed by taking me home so i could get my extra keys. Then when we got back to the school i noticed that the keys in my car were turned on. So now my cars battery was dead........... So Michael took me back to his house where we got some cables and jumped my car. See he did these really good deeds. Had he not been there i would have been lost. I cant imagine my family in hell fire. A brother at the Masjid told me that putting up a great argument can pale in comparison to just acting different. He told me to just be a very polite and pious person. I feel like maybe it will be my fault if my family and friends go into the hell fire now because im not able to convert them.
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- Qatada -
05-23-2007, 07:13 PM
Asalaamu 'alykum (peace be upon you) brother.


Your main duty right now is to convey the message clearly.. then pray to Allaah for their guidance. We will also pray for them insha Allaah (God willing.)


Also, any good deeds a person does in this life, if they're not doing it to please Allaah or for the hereafter, then there reward would be in this life. i.e. if someone worked hard to do good to get popular for example, then Allaah may give them popularity in this world instead of the hereafter.

Also, if someone does an act of worship for Jesus son of Mary (peace be upon them) for example, then these people will be required to get their reward off them on the Day of Judgement. However the reward will be with no-one except Allaah on that day.



I also want to show you this narration since it's really sad.. and it occurred within the life of Allaah's Messenger, Muhammad (peace be upon him):


Abu Talib’s Death:
In Rajab, the tenth year of the Prophethood, Abu Talib fell ill and passed away, six months after leaving the confinement at Ash-Sh‘ib. In another version, Abu Talib breathed his last in Ramadan, three days prior to the death of Khadijah (RA). On the authority of Al-Musaiyab, when Abu Talib was on the death bed, the Prophet entered the room where he saw Abu Jahl and ‘Abdullah bin Abi Omaiyah. He requested his uncle: "My uncle, you just make a profession that there is no true god but Allâh, and I will bear testimony before Allâh (of your being a believer)".

Abu Jahl and ‘Abdullah bin Abi Omaiyah addressing him said: "Abu Talib, would you abandon the religion of ‘Abdul-Muttalib?" The Messenger of Allâh constantly requested him (to accept his offer), and (on the other hand) was repeated the same statement (of Abu Jahl and ‘Abdullah bin Abi Omaiyah) — till Abu Talib gave his final decision and he stuck to the religion of ‘Abdul-Muttalib and refused to profess that there is no true god but Allâh. Upon this the Messenger of Allâh remarked: "By Allâh, I will persistently beg pardon for you till I am forbidden to do so (by Allâh)".

It was then that Allâh, the Magnificent and Glorious revealed this verse:

"It is not (proper) for the Prophet and those who believe to ask Allâh’s forgiveness for the Mushrikûn (polytheists, idolaters, pagans, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allâh) even though they be of kin, after it has become clear to them that they are the dwellers of the Fire (because they died in a state of disbelief)." [9:113]


And it was said to the Messenger of Allâh : "Verily! You (O Muhammad ) guide not whom you like." [28:56]

It goes without saying that Abu Talib was very much attached to Muhammad . For forty years, Abu Talib had been the faithful friend — the prop of his childhood, the guardian of his youth and in later life a very tower of defense. The sacrifices to which Abu Talib exposed himself and his family for the sake of his nephew, while yet incredulous of his mission, stamp his character as singularly noble and unselfish. The Prophet did his best to persuade his octogenarian uncle to make profession of the true faith, but he remained obdurate and stuck to the paganism of his forefathers, and thus could not achieve complete success. Al-‘Abbas bin ‘Abdul-Muttalib narrated that he said to the Prophet "You have not been of any avail to your uncle (Abu Talib) (though) by Allâh, he used to protect you and get angry on your behalf." The Prophet said: "He is in a shallow fire, and had it not been for me, he would have been at the bottom of the (Hell) Fire."

Abu Sa‘id Al-Khudri narrated that he heard the Prophet say, when the mention of his uncle was made, "I hope that my intercession may avail him, and he be placed in a shallow fire that rises up only to his heels."

SOURCE



We will continue praying for their guidance, and we pray you have the courage and strength to convey the message clearly to them and that they be rightly guided. ameen.
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IbnAbdulHakim
05-23-2007, 07:20 PM
assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu

i hope Allah bestows ample amount of sakeena and understanding into your heart bro :).


firstly bro i cant possible understand what it feels like, i wont pretend to understand but as a brother allow me to say a few things.

first : Never lose hope :)

second : Allah knows best, no matter what happens Allah knows whats happening for what reason, Allah says in the quran that you may dislike something but ALlah knows its good for you. subhanAlalh

thirdly: ALlah guides whom he wills in his infinite wisdom bro... and Allah is most just


shaytaans always trying to mess with us, DONT LET HIM!
Allah IS doing whats MOST JUST! Allah knows what is IN THE HEARTS so he will do whats best inshaAllah.


i will pray for you bro, right now inshaAllah

may Allah give us all guidance
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NoName55
05-23-2007, 07:25 PM
No-One is a kafar except those who hide the truth after they KNOW it

If real Christian and jewish people were kuffaar they would have not been called ahl al-kitaab and we would be prohibited their food as well as interfaith marriage
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Hashim_507
05-23-2007, 07:28 PM
Asalamualaikum,

Brother dont give up your dawah to your family and friends you love; its matter of time that this dunya will end soon. I understand your love for them; everybody love their family and does not want to lose them. Prophet Mohamed (P.B.U.H) experience his beloved uncle Abu Talib died as a non-muslim, it was great lose to him. Abu Talib defend the Prophet (P.B.U.H) from mushrakin, and protect him from enemy. Spread the dawah to your family, and tell them the truth about this dunya.
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Umar001
05-23-2007, 08:23 PM
My family are non Muslim, they dislike Islam.

But hey it's their descion, of course it is upsetting, specially when you know for example that your mother understands what you are saying but chooses to turn away.

I guess its another test in life.

Edit: Sometimes I do feel guilty, I think, if only i'd be more strong and firm and give more da'wah and so on. But in the end I know they will not go hell unless they deserve it and I will not unless I deserve it.
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michaelconvert
05-24-2007, 04:27 AM
thanks a lot
i hadnt even thought of the Prophets(pbuh) situation with his uncle. I knew the story but i hadnt considered how hard it must have been for him.

I know i cant lose hope
i will make dua
because anything is easy for Allah

Alhumdulilah
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-24-2007, 04:29 AM
^^InshaAllah everything will be alright. you'll be in our Du'as InshaAllah. May Allah(swt) guide ur family and friends InshaAllah, Ameen :)

:sl:
Reply

Yanal
05-24-2007, 04:30 AM
Originally Posted by michaelconvert
So if someone is not a Muslim they will go to the hell fire. What about my family? I can place the most perfect argument for Islam to them but thats not gonna make them convert. They have all been so conditioned to believe Christianity that it seems like it is no use. Its not just my family it is also my close friends. Last week when i was leaving from my last day of school i saw that i had locked my keys in my car. So my friend Mike did a good deed by taking me home so i could get my extra keys. Then when we got back to the school i noticed that the keys in my car were turned on. So now my cars battery was dead........... So Michael took me back to his house where we got some cables and jumped my car. See he did these really good deeds. Had he not been there i would have been lost. I cant imagine my family in hell fire. A brother at the Masjid told me that putting up a great argument can pale in comparison to just acting different. He told me to just be a very polite and pious person. I feel like maybe it will be my fault if my family and friends go into the hell fire now because im not able to convert them.
tell them to go on the forum akhiria (after dead) and tell them to read the death of a bad person and do u pray full namaaz
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Talibatul Ilm
05-24-2007, 04:49 AM
yea inshaAllah dont stop giving them da'wah. the best form of da'wah is also through your actions and showing a good change in character thanks to Islam being in your life. they will see how much in changed you and maybe take interest in it. Allah gives guidance and conceals guidance from whom he wills, so remember to make du'a for them inshaAllah and whatever Allah decides for them is His will and power.

i know it may seem hopeless and stressful at times but as someone mentioned before... this is another test from Allah and inshaAllah you'll prevail!
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Grace Seeker
05-24-2007, 05:25 AM
And Michael, remember that if your family is non-Muslim, especially if they are Christian, they may be feeling some of the same concerns with regard to you and your eternal destination that you are expressing that you feel for them. Understanding that you have these feelings and how you want to act on them, and see that they are living with the same thing in reverse, may help you to better understand some of the things you may experience in your home.

My Muslim daughter and I get along very well, but it does take some mutual sensitivity on both our parts.
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NoName55
05-24-2007, 07:29 AM
^^ I was thinking that same thought! wa salaam

BTW If real Christian and jewish people were kuffaar they would have not been called ahl al-kitaab and we would be prohibited their food as well as interfaith marriage
Reply

glo
05-24-2007, 07:44 AM
Greetings, Michael

I have been in this forum for a year. I have heard and read many 'perfect arguments for Islam' - and yet it has not 'converted me'.
It has given me an appreciation of what Muslims believe and a respect for some elements of Islam, but it has not convinced me that Islam is the one true religion.

Believe me, I have heard the arguments and I have pondered them in my heart. I have sought God about them. ... And I have come away even stronger in my Christian faith than I was before.

What I am trying to say is that whatever convinced you that Islam is the right path, may not convince your family at all.
By the end of the day, we all believe what we believe for our own reasons. Without that inner conviction our beliefs would be just hollow words rather than a true expression of our faith. And only God can give us that inner conviction ...

Feeling you need to do or say the right thing to convert your loved ones can be a terrible burden. Believe me, I know ...
Try to trust God with your family and yourself. Trust him to make his presence felt amongst you all and to lead you all in his ways.

May God be with you.
Reply

HBot 5000
05-24-2007, 07:52 AM
Originally Posted by michaelconvert
So if someone is not a Muslim they will go to the hell fire. What about my family? I can place the most perfect argument for Islam to them but thats not gonna make them convert. They have all been so conditioned to believe Christianity that it seems like it is no use. Its not just my family it is also my close friends. Last week when i was leaving from my last day of school i saw that i had locked my keys in my car. So my friend Mike did a good deed by taking me home so i could get my extra keys. Then when we got back to the school i noticed that the keys in my car were turned on. So now my cars battery was dead........... So Michael took me back to his house where we got some cables and jumped my car. See he did these really good deeds. Had he not been there i would have been lost. I cant imagine my family in hell fire. A brother at the Masjid told me that putting up a great argument can pale in comparison to just acting different. He told me to just be a very polite and pious person. I feel like maybe it will be my fault if my family and friends go into the hell fire now because im not able to convert them.
:sl:

Michael i believe you have done your job. The message may fall on deaf ears but keep speaking to them. :thumbs_up

:w:
Reply

ummzayd
05-24-2007, 08:01 AM
Originally Posted by michaelconvert
So if someone is not a Muslim they will go to the hell fire. What about my family? I can place the most perfect argument for Islam to them but thats not gonna make them convert. They have all been so conditioned to believe Christianity that it seems like it is no use. Its not just my family it is also my close friends. Last week when i was leaving from my last day of school i saw that i had locked my keys in my car. So my friend Mike did a good deed by taking me home so i could get my extra keys. Then when we got back to the school i noticed that the keys in my car were turned on. So now my cars battery was dead........... So Michael took me back to his house where we got some cables and jumped my car. See he did these really good deeds. Had he not been there i would have been lost. I cant imagine my family in hell fire. A brother at the Masjid told me that putting up a great argument can pale in comparison to just acting different. He told me to just be a very polite and pious person. I feel like maybe it will be my fault if my family and friends go into the hell fire now because im not able to convert them.
:sl:

It's not up to you to 'convert' people, you just need to be the best Muslim you can. If you are a recent convert then it's more important at this stage to study the basics of Islam, perfect your prayers and read qur'an with a good tafsir.

I would say your responsibility to others is to behave towards them as a good Muslim should, with respect and kindness and mildness, and if the opportunity arises to discuss Islam then do so in a good way, not becoming annoyed or insulting their beliefs. If you can manage that then there will be no blame on you if they don't convert, and Allah ta'ala knows best.

I have been Muslim for about 9 years, alhamdulillah, and my family are a mixture of practising Christian and I suppose agnostic. Unfortunately, in the beginning I did have a lot of 'heated debates' with the Christian ones, may Allah forgive me it was from ignorance of how to debate Islamically, and a naiive desire to share what I was learning with them - which they took as an attack on their beliefs.

I know it is difficult to imagine any of our loved ones in the hellfire, but I would urge you to put all your trust in Allah ta'ala, He is The Just, and he is the One who knows our hearts. On the day of judgement no-one will get a punishment that they do not deserve.

:w:
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Gangster No.1
05-24-2007, 08:18 AM
:sl:

Allah is all knowing, and inshallah your familly will understand more clearly of what Islam is.

personally my advice is perhaps to give a book regarding islam (a basic book-for learners).

Be patient, dont stop trying,
and inshallah allah we send his blessings upon your familly.
ameen.
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Snowflake
05-24-2007, 08:38 AM
I understand your sadness Br. Michael. Like all the brothers and sisters said, don't give up trying and above all making duaa. Duaa is the weapon of the believer. It can be difficult conveying a message verbally, so perhaps you'd like to give them some videos of Ahmad Deedat, May Allah grant him jannah. Ameen. He made many Christians rethink and re-examine their faith, especially those aspects of the Bible and Quran that deal with the divine mission of our beloved Prophet (PBUH) and Jesus alaihi islam.

He was also the founder of IPCI where you can obtain free dawah material which will aid you in your goal inshaAllah. There's book and DVD's on offer too. I also advise you to look into Dr Zakir Naik's brilliant works (available from the site too). I'm sure that by arming yourself with the right tools, you will provide enough evidence to your family to sit up and take note and hopefully to accept Islam.


May Allah's help and guidence be with you. Ameen.

here's the link to IPCI inshaAllah.

http://www.ahmed-deedat.co.za/homepage.asp
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Rafeeq
05-26-2007, 09:49 AM
AOA
Brother, Keep telling and inviting to the truth. but u need not to worry. Every one has to be answered his own deeds.
Allah knows the best
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AvarAllahNoor
05-26-2007, 11:25 AM
''He told me to just be a very polite and pious person'' THis is the best thing he/she could have said.

Nobody goes to hellfire, Allah alone decides. If a person has shown good intentions towards another then that ALONE will count. not what religion you followed.
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vpb
05-26-2007, 11:36 AM
Nobody goes to hellfire, Allah alone decides. If a person has shown good intentions towards another then that ALONE will count. not what religion you followed.
we don't point with a finger to a person wether he will go to hellfire or not, but Allah swt tells us, that if you associate partners to Allah and you die in that state, that sin is not forgiven. But all other sins are forgiven, except Shirk/Kufr.

Surely Allah does not forgive that anything should be associated with Him, and forgives what is besides that to whomsoever He pleases; and whoever associates anything with Allah, he devises indeed a great sin. (AN-NISA 4:48)
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vpb
05-26-2007, 11:42 AM
So if someone is not a Muslim they will go to the hell fire. What about my family? I can place the most perfect argument for Islam to them but thats not gonna make them convert. They have all been so conditioned to believe Christianity that it seems like it is no use. Its not just my family it is also my close friends. Last week when i was leaving from my last day of school i saw that i had locked my keys in my car. So my friend Mike did a good deed by taking me home so i could get my extra keys. Then when we got back to the school i noticed that the keys in my car were turned on. So now my cars battery was dead........... So Michael took me back to his house where we got some cables and jumped my car. See he did these really good deeds. Had he not been there i would have been lost. I cant imagine my family in hell fire. A brother at the Masjid told me that putting up a great argument can pale in comparison to just acting different. He told me to just be a very polite and pious person. I feel like maybe it will be my fault if my family and friends go into the hell fire now because im not able to convert them.
as the brother advised u to be polite, it's true. just try to avoid debates with them, don't make yourself as a reason for them to get angry and make them say kufr with their mouths. stay out of debates, and improve your self, show them that Islam makes u a better person, also you can make dawa with speaking, but the most important one for you know is making dawa with your behaviour. and remember if you argue with them, you are able to understand them, but they are not able to understand you, so just be patient and Allah will guide them inshaAllah. only if Allah swt wants to. Don't lose your hope.
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AvarAllahNoor
05-26-2007, 11:52 AM
Originally Posted by vpb
We don't point with a finger to a person wether he will go to hellfire or not, but Allah swt tells us, that if you associate partners to Allah and you die in that state, that sin is not forgiven. But all other sins are forgiven, except Shirk/Kufr.

Surely Allah does not forgive that anything should be associated with Him, and forgives what is besides that to whomsoever He pleases; and whoever associates anything with Allah, he devises indeed a great sin. (AN-NISA 4:48)
Of course I agree with this. Allah alone is supreme, and no other has a right to be placed beside him. :statisfie
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- Qatada -
05-26-2007, 11:53 AM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Of course I agree with this. Allah alone is supreme, and no other has a right to be placed beside him. :statisfie

Including saints. :) you direct all of your acts of worship, including prayers [which is worship] to Allaah ALONE.



Regards.
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AvarAllahNoor
05-26-2007, 11:58 AM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Including saints. :) you direct all of your acts of worship, including prayers [which is worship] to Allaah ALONE.



Regards.
LOL - Now, call me paranoid , but your reference to saints continually has me wondering. Do you think Sikhs regard Saints to be God like?
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vpb
05-26-2007, 01:05 PM
LOL - Now, call me paranoid , but your reference to saints continually has me wondering. Do you think Sikhs regard Saints to be God like?
loll, let's clear this up, basically what Islam requires is not to joing anything in partnership with Allah swt, which
for ex. if you go to graves and pray there, basiclly you are comitting shirk, bc you are thinking that the person on the grave is beloved to Allah and thorugh him you get closer to Allah swt, so this is a shirk,
or some people put blue marbles at the top of the door, bc they say it brings luck, or looking at the horoscope, or let's take an exmaple (it's a stupid one lol) sacrificing a fly thinking that if you do that you will get closer to Allah through that. or some magazines that print stuff and say that if you keep this with you will save u from accidents etc.
all this are types of shirk. bc we have the saying
"la hawle we la quatta illah billah" which means that "There is no power except in Allah", "La illahe ilallah" "There is no diety of worship but Allah" etc. ,and basically if you seek somehwere help or assign power to someone else besides Allah swt than you are in big trouble. When I mean by help i don't mean "can you buy me a pizza", but help , proper help i hope you know what i mean.

:)
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- Qatada -
05-26-2007, 01:08 PM
:salamext:


Yup, i don't wna hijack the thread but i'll link to this insha Allaah:

http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-i...hen-allah.html


It's referring to the disbelievers, aswell as some believers who have fallen into the same trap.
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vpb
05-26-2007, 01:14 PM
Yup, i don't wna hijack the thread but i'll link to this insha Allaah:
no no , don't hijack please :p we want no hijacking :p
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Eric H
05-26-2007, 07:28 PM
Greetings and peace be with you all;

Above all else there is one God and each and every one of us is created by the same God. God chooses whom he wills and he knows the beliefs that he has planted in each one of us, Islam to some, Christianity to some, Sikhism to some; and Hinduism to others.

A Muslim believes that he is striving to do the will of God, so why should I a Christian strive to change something that you believe comes from God?

By the same token I believe beyond a doubt that I am striving to do the will of God through Christianity.

I believe that if either of us is to change it will be more by what God decrees. Truthfully I struggle to understand why the same God has seemingly confused us all by giving us faiths that apparently bring us into conflict with each other.

I feel that the greatest path that God has left us to follow is that we should strive to love one another as we love ourselves. We are left with the option of praying for all our family, friends and neighbours, in the hope that they will find salvation through any other belief to our own.

Rightly or wrongly the path I seem drawn towards is striving for greater interfaith relations and friendships despite all our differences.

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric
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vpb
05-26-2007, 07:34 PM
I believe that if either of us is to change it will be more by what God decrees. Truthfully I struggle to understand why the same God has seemingly confused us all by giving us faiths that apparently bring us into conflict with each other.
:)God did not confuse us, we confused ourselves :) the faith was always the same, same teachings , sent through Prophets pbut, but when people altered those teachings, then of course there is a conflict between. but God always said to worship God alone and join no partners with him. And that's the core of the faith. so of course we differ.
and as for trying to do the best , we have to do our best in the way God told us. If someone told you to try to build a house from wood as strong as possible, it's not a correct choice if you try to build the house as strong as possible using brick, bc the guide has already been given and you can't use anything else but woods. :)
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AvarAllahNoor
05-27-2007, 09:47 AM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
:salamext:


Yup, i don't wna hijack the thread but i'll link to this insha Allaah:

http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-i...hen-allah.html


It's referring to the disbelievers, aswell as some believers who have fallen into the same trap.
Is this in response to my question? - If so, I'm not sure what it is you're getting at. Create a thread (or use a previous Sikh one) and we can try to see what drives you to this point of view. :)
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AvarAllahNoor
05-30-2007, 12:24 PM
Fi_Sabilillah ?
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- Qatada -
05-30-2007, 12:25 PM
Sure OK! :D thanks for the invitation.


Where shall we discuss it? :)
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AvarAllahNoor
05-30-2007, 12:29 PM
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...highlight=sikh

Perhaps you can give it a sub-title. Then we don't get confused. Thanks :)
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