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taimur_9000
05-23-2007, 10:00 PM
:sl: Brother & Sisters. I have read some posts about people asking about the rulling about kissing the thumb. And some people said they find it weird and where shocked. Well i am a Sunni Muslim and have been told to do so and once asked a mufti if it is allowed and if its a good act he did say yeh but didn't tell me the reason behind it as he was in a hurry. But today i came apon this article which i found usefull to share to people who weren't sure if it is allowed or not. Please comment...



THE PERMISSIBILITY OF KISSING THE THUMBS

1. Some people say that at the time of Azaan, it is Haraam to kiss the nails of the thumbs when the name of the Holy
Prophet Muhammad (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) is uttered.

2. The Ahle Sunnah Wal Jama'at believes that it is permissible to read the Durood Shareef and kiss the thumbs upon
hearing the name of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) during the Azaan.

3. The Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) said, "Whosoever has touched the name Muhammad with his hands,
then kissed his hand with his lips and rubbed it on his eyes, then he sill see Allah Ta'ala just as the righteous ones see and
my intercession will be close to him even though he is a sinner." (An Nawafi ul Atri'aa)

4. In Jannat, when Hazrat Adam (alaihis salaam) desired to meet the Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam), then Allah
Ta'ala sent Wahi (revelation) to him, "From your generation, he will become apparent in the later years". Then Hazrat
Adam (alaihis salaam) desired from Allah Ta’ala to meet the Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam). Allah Ta’ala showed
him the Noor of the Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) on the Shahadat finger of his right hand. The Noor recited
the Tasbeeh of Allah Ta'ala. It is for this reason that this finger is known as the Kalima finger. Allah Ta'ala showed the
beauty of the Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) on both the thumbnails of Hazrat Adam (alaihis salaam) like a
mirror. Then, Hazrat Adam (alaihis salaam)
kissed both his thumbnails and turned them over his eyes.

5. Thus, this Sunnah of Hazrat Adam (alaihis salaam) became consistent in his descendants. When Hazrat Jibraeel Ameen
(alaihis salaam) informed Rasoolullah (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) of this, he said, "That person, who when hearing my
name in Azaan, kisses his thumb nails and turns it over his eyes, he shall never go blind." (Tafseer Roohul Bayaan)

6. Once, the Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) entered the Masjid and sat down near a pillar. Hazrat Abu Bakr
Siddique (radi Allahu anhu) was seated beside him. Hazrat Bilal (radi Allahu anhu) then stood up and commenced with the
Azaan. When he said: "Ash hadu Ana Muhammadur Rasoolullah", Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddique (radi Allahu anhu) placed
both the thumb nails on to his eyes and said "Qurratu Aini bika Ya Rasoolallah" (Ya Rasoolallah! You are the coolness of
my eyes). When Hazrat Bilal (radi Allahu anhu) completed the Azaan, the Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) said,
"O Abu Bakr! Whosoever does like you have done, Almighty Allah will forgive all his sins." (Tafseer Roohul Bayaan)

7. Sayyiduna Imam Hassan (radi Allahu anhu) said, "Whosoever hears the Mu'azzin say 'Ash Hadu Ana Muhammadur
Rasoolullah' and says, 'Marhaba bi Habibi' and 'Quratu Aini Muhammad bin Abdullah' and then kisses both thumbs and
keeps it on his eyes, then he will never become blind and his eyes will never be sore." (Maqaaside Husna)

8. It is desirable after (hearing) the first Shahaadah of Azaan, to say: "Sallal laahu alaika Ya Rasoolallah" and after hearing
the second Shahaadah, to say "Qur'ratu Aini bika Ya
Rasoolallah". You should then kiss the nails of your thumb and place them on the eyes and say: "Allahuma Mati'ni bis Sam'i
Wal Basari" then the Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) will take such persons behind him into Jannah. (Shaami
Shareef)

9. In another Kitaab it is stated that both the thumbs of the hands should be kissed and rubbed on the eyes and when the
Mu’azzin says: "Ash hadu Ana Muhammadur Rasoolulah" then say, "Ash Hadu Ana Muhammadan Abduhu wa Rasooluhu
Raditu billahi Rabban Wa bi Islami Deenan wa Muhammadin Nabbiyan". (Tahtaawi Shareef)

10. From these discussions it can be affirmed that kissing the thumbs and touching them with the eyes at the time of Azaan
is Mustahab. It is the practice (Sunnah) of Hazrat Adam (alaihis salaam), Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddiq (radi Allahu anhu) and
others. The scholars of the Shari’ah (Fuqaha), Ahadith (Muhaddiseen) and the Knowledge of the Quran (Mufassireen) all
are in agreement with this issue.

11. This practice carries multiple benefits, some of which are:
• 11.1 The man who acts upon this practices and maintains it as a regular habit shall not suffer any disease or pain in
his eyes.
• 11.2 Insha Allah, he shall not become blind at any stage of his life.
• 11.3 For a person who suffers from any ailment in his eyes, he should adopt this practice as a cure of his ailment. It
is hoped his eyes shall become normal and healthy once again.
11.4 The person who constantly adopts this act of goodness showing his deep regard and veneration for the Holy Prophet
(sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) shall be blessed and honoured with his Shafa’at on the Day of Judgment and he shall be
included in the rows of the followers of the Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam).

SOURCE

Masalama
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chacha_jalebi
05-23-2007, 10:56 PM
well well well

the sources you gave ive neva heard:p but that mite b due to my limited knowledge:shade:

now, ive alwys believd its a bidah, Abu Bakr (ra) kissed his thumbnail because he saw Prophet (saw) reflection in them. now we dont see his reflection so kissin them is stupid and wrong. :D
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-23-2007, 11:01 PM
assalamu alaikum :)

format_quote Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
well well well

the sources you gave ive neva heard:p but that mite b due to my limited knowledge:shade:
that maybe because it has been implanted in your logic that your sources are more correct over others and it may also be implanted in your logic that you dismiss what you dont know as weak because of the scholars you particularly make taqleed of :) (just a thought)

now, ive alwys believd its a bidah, Abu Bakr (ra) kissed his thumbnail because he saw Prophet (saw) reflection in them. now we dont see his reflection so kissin them is stupid and wrong. :D
i've always believed it to be an act of beauty, mashaAllah :) and great 'ulama have defined it to be a sunnah so dont call it stupid inshaAllah :)


may Allah soften our hearts to accept differences. Ameen
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-23-2007, 11:06 PM
subhanAllah how easily we call things wrong these days.... audhubillah...
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IbnAbdulHakim
05-23-2007, 11:09 PM
The Fiqh of Insistence & Deeming Necessary: Kissing & Thumbs and Eyes
Answered by Shaykh Muhammad ibn Adam al-Kawthari



In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful

Elevating the status of a specific act or deed from its actual position in Shariah is considered to be offensive (makruh) and a form of innovation (bid’a) according to the majority of classical Ulama and jurists (fuqaha). Considering something that is merely permissible (mubah) to be recommended (mandub) or necessary (wajib), something recommended to be Sunnah or necessary, or something Sunnah to be necessary are all forms of reprehensible innovation.

Many acts and practices are recommended in Shariah and a means of gaining great reward; hence one will be rewarded for carrying them out. However, if one considers such acts to be necessary (wajib), or one gives them importance and significance to the point that those who choose not to practice them are looked down upon and considered to be in the wrong, then this would be blameworthy. The jurists (fuqaha) and other classical scholars term this practice as Israr (insistence) or Iltizam (considering something unnecessary to be necessary).

For example, writing a book for the benefit of other Muslims is a great act of merit and reward. However, if one considers writing a book to be necessary or restricts the duty of preaching (tabligh) to book-writing only, then instead of gaining a reward, one will be committing a sin by writing a book. Similarly, if one was to give a discourse (dars) every day after Maghrib prayer, and considered this specific method to be established through the Sunnah, then this would be wrong and a form of innovation.

Another example is the practice of group Dhikr. Making the Dhikr of Allah Most High, both individually or collectively, holds great merit and rewards, and is a means of strengthening one’s relationship with Allah Almighty. One may make this Dhikr of Allah in any way or form, for the command is general. However, if a particular method of Dhikr was considered to be necessary to the exclusion of others, then this would become a blameworthy practice.

Hence, there are many recommended and Sunnah practices that hold great virtues and rewards, and one should aspire to implement them in one’s life as much as possible. However, one should always refrain from considering these recommended acts to be necessary to the point that someone who does not carry them out is considered to be sinful.


Some evidences in this regard:

1) It was a regular practice of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) to fast on Fridays due to the auspiciousness of this day. It has been narrated that very rarely would the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) not fast on a Friday. (Sunan Tirmidhi, no: 742)

However, upon seeing the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) fasting regularly on Fridays, many companions also began fasting on this day to the point that fasting on Fridays became somewhat the norm, and people began to regard fasting on this day to hold some specific merit and reward. Due to this, the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) prevented the companions from fasting on Fridays alone.

Sayyiduna Abu Hurayra (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “None amongst you should observe fast on Friday, but only that he observes a fast before it or after it.” (Sahih Muslim, no: 1144)

Sayyiduna Abu Hurayra (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Do not single out the night (preceding) Friday among the nights for prayer, and do not single out Friday amongst the days for fasting but only when one of you is accustomed to fast (on dates) which coincides with this day (Friday).” (Sahih Muslim, no: 1144)

Imam al-Nawawi (Allah have mercy on him) mentions that one of the reasons for the prohibition of observing a fast only on Fridays was so that people do not consider fasting on Fridays to be necessary. (See: al-Minhaj sharh Sahih Muslim ibn al-Hajjaj, p: 858)

The fact is that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) himself observed a fast on Fridays due to the special merits attached to this day. However, when the Companions (Allah be pleased with them all) began to regularly fast on Fridays, he feared that people may begin to consider fasting on Fridays to be necessary, hence he prevented others from fasting on Friday alone.


2) The great Hadith master (hafidh), Imam Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani (Allah have mercy on him) states in his monumental commentary of Sahih al-Bukhari, Fath al-Bari, whilst commentating on the following Hadith:

Sayyiduna al-Aswad narrates that Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Mas’ud (Allah be pleased with him) said: “You should not give away a part of your prayer to Shaytan by thinking that it is necessary to turn (after finishing the prayer) towards one’s right side only. Indeed I have seen the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) often turning towards his left side.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, no: 814)

Imam Ibn Hajar (Allah have mercy on him) states:

“Ibn al-Munir said: This Hadith indicates that recommended acts may become disliked (makruh) if they are elevated from their position (of being recommended). Right-sidedness (tayamun) is recommended (mustahab) in all acts of worship, but when Abd Allah ibn Mas’ud feared that people will begin to consider this recommended act as necessary, he pointed out to its offensiveness.” (Fath al-Bari, 2/437, Dar al-Salam edition)


3) Similarly, we see the jurists (fuqaha) disliking the idea of fixing a particular Surah for recitation in prayer to the exclusion of other Surahs. It is stated in the renowned Hanafi Fiqh masterpiece, al-Hidaya:

“It is disliked (makruh) to fix a portion of the Qur’an for recitation in any of the prayers, for in doing so one will be deserting the other parts of the Qur’an, and it will also indicate that the portion fixed for recitation is preferred over other parts of the Qur’an.”

The commentator of al-Hidaya, Imam Kamal ibn al-Humam (Allah have mercy on him), whilst commentating on the above text, states that the recitation of Surah al-Sajdah and Surah al-Dahr in the Fajr prayer of Friday and the recitation of Surah al-Munafiqun in the Jumu’ah prayer is Sunnah. However, if one fixes these Surahs to the exclusion of others, it will be Makruh. He (Ibn al-Humam) then quotes Imam al-Tahtawi and al-Istijabi as saying that this is when one considers the recitation of these Surahs to be necessary, hence if one continuously recited them with the intention of gaining Barakah and following the Sunnah, there would be nothing wrong in doing so. However, one should occasionally recite other Surahs, so that an ignorant person does not regard their recitation to be necessary. (See: Fath al-Qadir with al-Hidaya, 1/337, Dar al-Fikr edition)


4) Imam Ibn Abidin (Allah have mercy on him) also gives the same message whilst discussing the Surahs whose recitation is considered Sunnah in Witr prayer. He says:

“(Imam al-Haskafi’s statement: “It is a Sunnah to recite the three Surahs”) meaning Surah al-A’la, al-Kafirun and al-Ikhlas (in Witr prayers). However, it is mentioned in al-Nihaya that fixing them and reciting them regularly may lead some people to regard their recitation to be necessary (wajib) which is not permissible, hence their inconstant recitation would be better.” (Radd al-Muhtar, 2/6, Bab al-Witr wa al-Nawafil)

5) Imam Abd al-Hay al-Lakhnawi (Allah have mercy on him) states:

“Many permitted acts and practices become disliked (makruh) due to regarding them necessary similar to other necessary actions, as has been mentioned by Mulla Ali al-Qari in his Sharh al-Mishkat (Mirqat al-Mafatih) and Imam al-Haskafi in his Durr al-Mukhtar.” (Sibahat al-Fikr fi al-Jahr bi al-Dhikr, P: 62)

The meaning of all of the foregoing is that if an act or practice is recommended in Shariah, then one must ensure that it remains on the level of recommendation and not be elevated to the level of necessity; otherwise it will become offensive and a form of innovation. Similarly, it is improper to firmly insist (israr) on others to practice or take part in this act of recommendation to the point that those who do not take part are considered to be sinful or in the wrong. However, if others are encouraged, even if seemingly in an insisted manner, but without them being considered sinful should they choose not to practice, then there would be nothing wrong with that.

An example of what has been mentioned above is the issue of kissing one’s thumbs and placing them on one’s eyes upon hearing the name of our master and beloved Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him eternal peace) during the Adhan. The narrations mentioned in the recommendation of this act are considered by the scholars of Hadith to be weak (da’if), as pointed out by Imam Ibn Abidin in his Radd al-Muhtar.

Unfortunately, many people become quite extreme in their attitude towards this practice. They regrettably make a big deal out of something that is merely a secondary issue, thus overlooking many more important matters of faith.

Some consider the kissing and placing of thumbs on one’s eyes during the Adhan to be an outright innovation (bid’a) to the point that it has no basis whatsoever in Shariah, and that whoever practices this, regardless of the nature it was practiced in, is committing a major act of Bid’a.

This is something that really needs to be avoided. Kissing the thumbs and placing them on one’s eyes cannot be considered, in of itself, an outright act of innovation unless it entails something that makes it an act of Bid’a. If one practiced this act out of love for the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) and due to the narrations of Sayyiduna Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him), even if the narrations are considered weak, then there would be nothing wrong with that.


The great contemporary scholar Shaykh Taqi Usmani (Allah have mercy on him) also mentions the non-offensiveness of this act in his “Discourses of Islamic Way of Life” thus he states:

“Upon listening to the Adhan in the Masjid, you heard the words “Ashhadu Anna Muhammad al-Rasul Allah” you suddenly felt a deep sense of love for the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) and in this state of love and ecstasy you kissed your thumbs and placed them on your eyes. This action, in of itself, cannot be considered sinful or Bid’a. The reason being is that you did this out of love for the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace), and love and respect for the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) is a praiseworthy act and a sign of faith….” (Islahi Khutbat (Urdu), 1/231)

The above statement from one of the renowned scholars of the Deobandi School clearly shows that the act of kissing one’s thumbs and placing them upon the eyes during Adhan is not, in of itself, an act of innovation. Those who categorically condemn this practice altogether should realize that it is not a baseless act that was invented by some Muslims in the Indian Subcontinent. It is something that is practiced in other parts of the Muslim and Arab world also, such as in Syria and Yemen. If one was to visit the famous city of Syria Halab (Aleppo), one would see many Arab Muslims including scholars kissing their thumbs and placing them on their eyes upon hearing the name of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) during the Adhan.

However, the other side of the coin is what we are discussing in this article, which is to over-emphasise something that may be merely considered a recommended act. Unfortunately, the other extremism found in some of our brothers is that they consider this act to be firmly established through the Sunnah like it is mentioned in a Hadith of Sahih al-Bukhari, hence they consider it to be a sign of being a true Muslim, and the one who does not kiss his thumbs is committing a sin. Thus, Shaykh Mufti Taqi Usmani (may Allah preserve him) further states:

“However, if an individual begins to tell the whole world that whenever during the Adhan you hear “Ashhadu Anna Muhammad al-Rasul Allah” you must all kiss your thumbs because it is Sunnah or Mustahab to do so, and whoever fails to kiss his thumbs does not truly love the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace), then this act, which was otherwise completely permissible, will become an act of reprehensible innovation. This is a minute difference between the two situations, in that if this lawful act is done with a right attitude, then it is not an innovation. However, if it is considered binding or thought to be an established Sunnah to the point that the one who wishes not to practice it is condemned, then it will become an innovation.” (Islahi Khutbat, 1/231)

It is noteworthy here that Shaykh Taqi Usmani permits this act even if it is not classified as Mustahab, as we have seen in the extract of his provided earlier. Thus, even if this act was not considered to be Mustahab, it would be permitted to carry it out in of itself. If one does consider this act to be recommended based on the weak narrations, then there is nothing wrong with that also, but one must avoid regarding it to be binding or being decisively proven through the Sunnah.

Therefore, we need to really stop arguing and fighting over this issue. Those who practice this act should be left alone, whether one considers this act to be Mustahab or otherwise. One should presume that this person is practicing it out of genuine love for the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace). On the other hand, those who do practice this act should realize that this act is not something that is decisively established through the Sunnah. There are few extremely weak narrations in this regard; hence they should abstain from considering those who do not practice this to be in the wrong. It is definitely not a action that is a sign of being a true and genuine Muslim.

It should be noted here that I am not saying all those who practice this act always consider others to be in the wrong and consider this act to be a sign of being a true Muslim. What I am saying is that this kind of approach and attitude is blameworthy hence should be avoided, but it does not necessarily mean that everyone acts in this manner.

So in conclusion, the condition for recommended actions established by weak Hadiths is that one does not have the firm conviction that this is established from the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) himself. However, if one does it because there is a weak narration encouraging it and that some scholars have mentioned it to be a virtuous action, then there is nothing wrong with it. If one is firmly convinced that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) himself did this or encouraged it, which is not authentically established, then it would be an innovation.



Difference between continuous practicing and insisting:

Finally, one must remember that there are two separate things connected to our discussion and it is important to understand the difference between the two. One is to firmly insist on others to practice (or take part in) a recommended act to the point that one who wishes not to practice it is considered to be in the wrong. This is known as Israr (insistence). However, there is another thing, which is to continuously and regularly practice an act of recommendation, known as Mudawama or Muwazaba. This is permitted and not considered offensive in any way.

For example, a Shaykh regularly gives a discourse every day after Fajr prayers. Now, the giving of a discourse regularly every day after Fajr prayers does not make this practice offensive or Bid’a, for there is nothing wrong in regular practice (mudawama). However, if the giving and attending of this discourse is considered to be necessary to the point that those who wish to go home and not attend the discourse are rebuked, then this will become an act of innovation.

When we read some Fuqaha mentioning that it is better to leave out a Sunnah or Mustahab act occasionally, it is for this very reason, in that if a Sunnah or Mustahab act is practiced regularly, there is a fear that people may regard it to be necessary. However, if it is made clear to the people (or it is commonly known) that this act is not necessary as such, it will not be necessary to occasionally abstain from practicing it.


The above is a very fine line between something being recommended (mustahab) and being disliked (makruh), or something being Sunnah and Bid’a. If the above principle is clearly understood, then many of our arguments in matters of controversy would be solved, Insha Allah.

And Allah knows best

Muhammad ibn Adam al-Kawthari

Darul Iftaa, Leicester

www.daruliftaa.org
Reply

chacha_jalebi
05-23-2007, 11:12 PM
jazakhallah hakim bro lol

reason i said its stupid is because i believe its a bidah

i believe there no basis for us doin that, even if hadrat Abu Bakr (ra) did do it. bcos we unfortunately dont see RasoolAllah (saw) reflection, so why do it now? its baseless:D
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-23-2007, 11:14 PM
lol wa iyyakum ma akhee :)


format_quote Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
jazakhallah hakim bro lol

reason i said its stupid is because i believe its a bidah

i believe there no basis for us doin that, even if hadrat Abu Bakr (ra) did do it. bcos we unfortunately dont see RasoolAllah (saw) reflection, so why do it now? its baseless:D
lol :) u make me smile lol

It is noteworthy here that Shaykh Taqi Usmani permits this act even if it is not classified as Mustahab, as we have seen in the extract of his provided earlier. Thus, even if this act was not considered to be Mustahab, it would be permitted to carry it out in of itself. If one does consider this act to be recommended based on the weak narrations, then there is nothing wrong with that also, but one must avoid regarding it to be binding or being decisively proven through the Sunnah.
please keep this in mind inshaAllah :)
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-23-2007, 11:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
reason i said its stupid is because i believe its a bidah
become a mujtahid then call it stupid
Reply

chacha_jalebi
05-23-2007, 11:19 PM
you make me smile too bro :D

lol there no point in debating, because there is a difference of opinion.

but its sad to see so much differences, there is only one right way, and Allah swt knows what that is.

may we all be guided to the straight way and be united:shade:
Reply

chacha_jalebi
05-23-2007, 11:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
become a mujtahid then call it stupid
lol ur gunnin me eh:(

i hope i dint offend by sayin it stupid. dat werent moi intention

sho forgive:D
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-23-2007, 11:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
you make me smile too bro :D

lol there no point in debating, because there is a difference of opinion.

but its sad to see so much differences, there is only one right way, and Allah swt knows what that is.

may we all be guided to the straight way and be united:shade:
Ameen lol just dont be going around calling other peoples opinions stupid :D


yeah, may Allah guide us both and the ummah, Ameen :)
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-23-2007, 11:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
lol ur gunnin me eh:(

i hope i dint offend by sayin it stupid. dat werent moi intention

sho forgive:D
inshaAllah, its just when i think about all the scholars who attain such high levels and research and come out with an opinion and then we sit on our computers and call it stupid.

sorry bro that thought just got to me...
Reply

chacha_jalebi
05-23-2007, 11:35 PM
ya true

but there are scholars like imam as suyuti who say the evidence is forged, and its not permissible

and Allah hu alim:D
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-24-2007, 08:52 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
ya true

but there are scholars like imam as suyuti who say the evidence is forged, and its not permissible

and Allah hu alim:D
let the mujtahids be suspicious (in scrutinizing evidence), let us be humble

Allahu a'lam :)
Reply

HBot 5000
05-24-2007, 09:12 AM
:sl:

First : www.daruliftaa.org - this is a really weird website? Is it a joke?

Second : I used to kiss my nails before i went to suadi, but i never saw anyone of them doing such a thing so i stopped too.
:thumbs_up


:w:
Reply

Gangster No.1
05-24-2007, 09:29 AM
:sl:

Allah know's our intension, when you kiss your nails and do the rest, then your intension is for the love of the prophet, making a mockery out of it is totally wrong.

I personally do it, for the love of the prophet and believe it becuase Abu Bakr (ra) did it.

If it was wrong the prophet would have told Abu Bakr (ra) not do it.
People say it is bida, but even when the prophet was there when Abu Bakr did it, he didnt say that was wrong.

End of the day DO IT, if you truelly believe and if you dont believe it is true, then inshallah seek knowlege more, and inshallah you'll understand why it is permissmable.

:w: :thumbs_up
Reply

HBot 5000
05-24-2007, 09:35 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gangster No.1
:sl:

Allah know's our intension, when you kiss your nails and do the rest, then your intension is for the love of the prophet, making a mockery out of it is totally wrong.

I personally do it, for the love of the prophet and believe it becuase Abu Bakr (ra) did it.

If it was wrong the prophet would have told Abu Bakr (ra) not do it.
People say it is bida, but even when the prophet was there when Abu Bakr did it, he didnt say that was wrong.

End of the day DO IT, if you truelly believe and if you dont believe it is true, then inshallah seek knowlege more, and inshallah you'll understand why it is permissmable.

:w: :thumbs_up
:sl:

TBH you need to ask yourself - did the prophet carry out such an action? If no then why do you?

The above argument (for the love of the prophet) is also given when people say we should celebrate the prophets birthday, kissing the quran etc.

Did he do it?

:w:
Reply

Gangster No.1
05-24-2007, 09:45 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by HBot 5000
:sl:

TBH you need to ask yourself - did the prophet carry out such an action? If no then why do you?

The above argument (for the love of the prophet) is also given when people say we should celebrate the prophets birthday, kissing the quran etc.

Did he do it?

:w:
:sl:

Firstly the prophet did not need to kiss his own fingures upon hearing his own name, rationally speaking.

Hower when the Companion heard it:

6. Once, the Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) entered the Masjid and sat down near a pillar. Hazrat Abu Bakr
Siddique (radi Allahu anhu) was seated beside him. Hazrat Bilal (radi Allahu anhu) then stood up and commenced with the
Azaan. When he said: "Ash hadu Ana Muhammadur Rasoolullah", Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddique (radi Allahu anhu) placed
both the thumb nails on to his eyes and said "Qurratu Aini bika Ya Rasoolallah" (Ya Rasoolallah! You are the coolness of
my eyes). When Hazrat Bilal (radi Allahu anhu) completed the Azaan, the Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) said,
"O Abu Bakr! Whosoever does like you have done, Almighty Allah will forgive all his sins." (Tafseer Roohul Bayaan)

As you can see the companion did it infront of our rasool (saw).
So why does the prophet STILL need to prohibt it, when the prophet himself (pbuh) said so it is permissable, and it DOES show love of the prophet (pbuh).

The companion did so, YES, so whats the BIG DEAL, saying now that is bid'a?


what is TBH?
:w:
Reply

Gangster No.1
05-24-2007, 09:52 AM
Als the prophets(pbuh) b'day is a reminder to all muslims, the day when the beloved prophet (pbuh) was born.

Like i said it reminds you of the prophet, your not exactly celebrating in the terms of 21st celebration, party, etc,etc.

Instead your demonstating the acknowledgement this was the day our beloved prophet was born, and because of the prophet (saw) and the message he brings WE ARE MUSLIMS!

Your just looking at it from a angle, that aint seeing the whole picture.

And for kissing of the quran, that is the words of allah, that allah himself spoke of, and nothing is more valuable then allah's words, in a book, that is totally PURE.

Kissing the quran is between yourself and allah, loving the fact of its orignallity and purity sent from Allah (swt).

:w:
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-24-2007, 10:04 AM
respecting gangster :) reps ur way brO


oh... gotta spread it around lol, but still respectin

and ma article covers it properly bro, if someone still considers it bid;a then may Allah guide us all!
Reply

HBot 5000
05-24-2007, 10:06 AM
:sl:

TBH = to be honest

Thanks for the explanation gangster but i have yet to be convinced. I am not saying its bid'ah but i will not do it until i have definitive proof.

With regards to the prophets birthday i disagree.

:w:
Reply

------
05-24-2007, 10:12 AM
:salamext:

Hmm...yeh...if the Prophet (SAW) did it...thats the main argument of people. Did u ever think that they didn't have half the things in the Prophet SAW(s) time?! Computers....telephone....TV....mobile....DONT USE THEM!!! The Prophet SAW didnt use it..... :-\

I am not contradicting any of the views brother, but i am just saying that the scholars put their reasons forward based on the Quraan and Sunnah, they dont merely do that out of their own interest.

So please, everyone, have respect for other peoples opinions, even if you dont agree with them.

Btw,
6. Once, the Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) entered the Masjid and sat down near a pillar. Hazrat Abu Bakr
Siddique (radi Allahu anhu) was seated beside him. Hazrat Bilal (radi Allahu anhu) then stood up and commenced with the
Azaan. When he said: "Ash hadu Ana Muhammadur Rasoolullah", Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddique (radi Allahu anhu) placed
both the thumb nails on to his eyes and said "Qurratu Aini bika Ya Rasoolallah" (Ya Rasoolallah! You are the coolness of
my eyes). When Hazrat Bilal (radi Allahu anhu) completed the Azaan, the Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) said,
"O Abu Bakr! Whosoever does like you have done, Almighty Allah will forgive all his sins." (Tafseer Roohul Bayaan)
Jazaak Allaah Khayr for this hadith akhee :)
Reply

Gangster No.1
05-24-2007, 10:17 AM
i have noticed that people here say akhee, what is that, lol, dont get wot that means.
:w:
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-24-2007, 10:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gangster No.1
i have noticed that people here say akhee, what is that, lol, dont get wot that means.
:w:
:salamext:

wallahi i love ur innocense :D


akhee = brother, get me akhee :p
Reply

HBot 5000
05-24-2007, 10:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muj4h1d4
:salamext:

Hmm...yeh...if the Prophet (SAW) did it...thats the main argument of people. Did u ever think that they didn't have half the things in the Prophet SAW(s) time?! Computers....telephone....TV....mobile....DONT USE THEM!!! The Prophet SAW didnt use it..... :-\

I am not contradicting any of the views brother, but i am just saying that the scholars put their reasons forward based on the Quraan and Sunnah, they dont merely do that out of their own interest.

So please, everyone, have respect for other peoples opinions, even if you dont agree with them.

Btw,


Jazaak Allaah Khayr for this hadith akhee :)
:sl:

Jazakhllah Khair sister.

What we want to stop is bid'ah (innovation) into our beloved Islamic religion. Using computers, tv etc does not constitute bid'ah because they have nothing to do with the religion of Islam.

However when somebody says celebrate the prophets birthday, kiss the nails, kiss the quran etc this has religious significance and we need to make sure its acceptable practice. We turn to the prophet for guidance as he warned us against bid'ah as bid'ah destoyes the sunnah hence why some people coin the phrase 'did the prophet do it?'.

If we start doing things 'willy nilly' then were going to end up like the christians, jews, hindu's etc - deaf dumb and blind.

:w:
Reply

Gangster No.1
05-24-2007, 10:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
:salamext:

wallahi i love ur innocense :D


akhee = brother, get me akhee :p
respect akhee
:thumbs_up lol
Reply

HBot 5000
05-24-2007, 10:29 AM
:sl:

Brothers and sisters please read the following thread:

http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...novations.html

Masalamt yakki


:w:
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-24-2007, 10:33 AM
assalamu alaikum

brothers and sisters please read this:

http://www.daruliftaa.com/question.a...nID=q-22355054


:)
Reply

HBot 5000
05-24-2007, 10:39 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
assalamu alaikum

brothers and sisters please read this:

http://www.daruliftaa.com/question.a...nID=q-22355054


:)
:sl:

Jazakhllah Khair, this is a good article.

However returning to the original topic of kissing the nails i am still to be convinced. :X


:w:
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-24-2007, 10:43 AM
^ lol :) may Allah grant us all hidaaya
Reply

chacha_jalebi
05-24-2007, 10:48 AM
lol

i agree we should alwys weigh up the evidence and follow which eva view has best evidence:D

brothers and sistas read this aswell lol

http://www.allaahuakbar.net/barelwiy..._in_adhaan.htm

lets not argue debate in a nice way:D

*group hug*:p
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-24-2007, 10:52 AM
subhanAllah

that link doesnt work for me, surely every atom hidden or exposed moves by the will of Allah...

what does the link say bro?

lol :) ({) :p
Reply

HBot 5000
05-24-2007, 10:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
subhanAllah

that link doesnt work for me, surely every atom hidden or exposed moves by the will of Allah...

what does the link say bro?

lol :) ({) :p

:sl:

Does not work for me too, perhaps Allah :arabic4: does not want us to read the article!?

:w:
Reply

chacha_jalebi
05-24-2007, 11:09 AM
^ lol i think i mis typed link neway the article says

by Aboo Uthmaan al-Kaashmiree Source :TROID Publications

There is not a single example from the Prophet’s (saw) life that by passed the Muslim Ummah. The act of worship such as the adhaan (call to Prayer) is done five times a day which was legislated ten years after the Hijrah (migration) and it was done in front of the Prophet (saw) in al-Madeenah, and in the books of ahaadeeth we have its history and the Mu‘adhdhin. But it is not in a single narration that one should kiss his thumbs on hearing the adhaan, if we do want to kiss something then we might as well as kiss the Mu‘adhdhin lips who utters the adhaan five times a day. This action of kissing the thumbs on hearing the adhaan was never practiced during the time of the Salafus-Saalih.

THE PROOFS THEY USE TO PERMIT IT

The narration is that which is attributed to Aboo Bakr as- Siddeeq that when he heard the Mu‘adhdhin say “anna muhammadur rasoolah” he would kiss his thumbs and fingers (index) and then touch his eyes and the prophet said “Whoever does this like my beloved has done, then my intercession will be compulsory for him.” [1]

It has been narrated in al-Musnadul-Firdaws by ad-Daylamee by the way of:

a) Tadhkiratul-Mawdoo’aat (p. 36)

b) al-Mawdoo’aatul-Kabeer (p. 75)

c) Ahmad Yaar Khaan al-Bareilwi in Jaa‘ul-Haqq (p. 378) from al-Maqaasidul-Hasanah

d) Muhammad ’Umar in Maqyaas Khaafiyat (p. 603)

ANSWER:

1. Al-’Allaamah Muhammad Taahir writes “Wa laa yasahh” - not Saheeh - in Tadhkiratul- Mawdoo’aat (p. 36)

2. Mullaa ’Alee al-Qaaree from al-’Allaamah as-Sakhaawee that this narration is not Saheeh in al-Mawdoo’aatul-Kabeer (p. 75).

If the hadeeth is not Saheeh, then how can you act upon it? Ahmad Yaar Khaan Bareilwi quotes as-Sakhaawee that he said “Wa lam yasahh” and translates it as “Its level of authenticity does not reach a high level.” What Muhammad ’Umar did was even more strange, he mentions the hadeeth from Tadhkiratul-Mawdoo’aat and al-Mawdoo’aatul-Kabeer and doesn’t mention “Laa yasahh” deliberately.

AHMAD YAAR KHAAN BAREILWI’S MISTAKE:

He writes “Not reaching the level of Saheeh does not necessarily mean that it is Da’eef because the rating of Hasan is after Saheeh, and if this is Hasan then it is enough.” [2]

But he should know that when the Muhadditheen say “laa yasahh” mutlaq (absolutely) it means nothing else except that it is Da’eef. If it was Hasan they would have explained and said, ‘Laysa bis-saheeh, bal-hasanun’ (It is not Saheeh, rather it is Hasan.)

REMOVAL OF A DOUBT:

Mullaa ’Alee al-Qaaree says, “If this hadeeth is Saheeh up to Aboo Bakr (radiyallaahu ’anhu) then it is enough to act upon it because the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said, “My Sunnah and the Sunnah of my rightly guided Caliphs is obligatory upon you.” [3] [4]. Ahmad Yaar Khaan [5] and Muhammad ’Umar [6] also use the same reasoning.

But this is Mullaa ’Alee al-Qaaree’s conscious, because if this hadeeth was mawqoof (stopped) up to Aboo Bakr (radiyallaahu ’anhu) then it would have been a proof but the narration that is attributed to Aboo Bakr (radiyallaahu ’anhu) is marfoo’ (raised) and its isnaad is not Saheeh all the way so then to say that the marfoo’ hadeeth is not Saheeh and the mawqoof is Saheeh then how is it enough to say that this is sufficient.

ACTING UPON WEAK AHAADEETH

Ahmad Yaar Khaan writes “If it is accepted that this hadeeth is Da’eef, then in virtuous actions Da’eef hadeeth are enough.” [7]. This is also his incorrect understanding, that every Da’eef ahaadeeth is accepted in actions of virtue, this is totally wrong.

Imaam Qaadee Ibnul-’Arabee al-Maalikee (d.543H) – rahimahullaah - and others have said regarding Da’eef ahaadeeth “Laa ya’mal bihi mutlaqan.” - it is absolutely incorrect to act upon them.” [8] And those who act upon it have conditions so Imaam Ibn Daqeeq al-’Eed (d.702H) – rahimahullaah – writes “Acting upon Da’eef ahaadeeth is conditioned.” [9] What are those conditions, Imaam as-Sakhaawee (d.902H) writes by quoting his Shaykh, al-Haafidh Ibn Hajar, “Acting upon Da’eef ahaadeeth has three conditions,

1. That all the Muhadditheen agree that the hadeeth is not extremely Da’eef, ie the hadeeth in which the narrators are not liars, who may be suspected or accused liars, or any such narrator who is munfarid (alone), who made a lot of mistakes then his Da’eef hadeeth will not be a normal Da’eef ahaadeeth.

2. That the hadeeth is not present under baseless principles.

3. While acting one has the belief that the hadeeth is not proven from the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) so that something is not attributed to him that he did not say.” [10]

So we find that if anyone of the criteria above are missing, then in any circumstances the hadeeth does not need to be acted upon. Especially the third condition because that which is not proven from the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) and if one tries to attribute it to him and then to accept it as proven from him is a major crime indeed because it totally opposes the mutawaatir (concurrent) narration stating: “He who intentionally attributes a lie to me, then let him take his seat in the Fire of Hell” [11]

’Abdul-Hayy al-Laknaawee writes, “The claim that acting upon Da’eef ahaadeeth in the issue of virtue without difference is false; yes this is the opinion of the majority but the condition is that the hadeeth is not severely Da’eef otherwise it will also not be accepted in the issues of virtues actions.” [12]

It’s a pity the innovators put heels on end to prove such ahaadeeth. What beautiful words said a Bareilwi (Which is extremely rare) who said “To accept ahaadeeth and attributing it to the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) needs proof, an attribution without proof is not permissible.” [13]

As a result acting on Da’eef ahaadeeth pertaining to virtues actions must comply with the three conditions and acting upon them is mustahabb (recommended) on the condition that it is not mawdoo’ (fabricated). If the narration is mawdoo’ then there is no action upon it.

Al-Haafidh Ibn Daqeeq writes, “If the hadeeth is Da’eef with the condition that it is not mawdoo’, then acting upon it is permissible. But if by it a new custom arises or is born in the Religion as a result then it also forbade from.” [14]

So here another point has been resolved and that is that the Da’eef ahaadeeth is only acted upon when it is not mawdoo’ (fabricated) or forged bearing in mind that any Da’eef hadeeth which leads to a custom in the Religion, will be stopped. The Ahlul Bid’ah try to make such actions as the Sunnah.

Al-’Allaamah as-Sakhaawee writes, “It is permissible and mustahabb to act upon Da’eef ahaadeeth which command virtues actions and encouragement, but the condition is that the ahaadeeth are not mawdoo’ or forged.” [15]

And he also says, “However, as for the forged hadeeth, then it is not permissible to act upon them in any circumstances” [16]

The summary is that it permissible to act upon Da’eef ahaadeeth in actions of virtue and this has some conditions set by the muhadditheen and the ahaadeeth which are mawdoo’ or forged then there is no action upon them neither in the issue of virtues or encouragement.

NOW PAY ATTENTION: Not only are the ahaadeeth concerning the kissing of the thumbs da’eef, but mawdoo’ and forged.

Imaam Jalaalud-Deen as-Suyootee writes,

“Those ahaadeeth which mention the kissing of the fingers and then placing them on the eyes when the Mu‘adhdhin mentions the name of the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam), all of them are mawdoo’ and forged.” [17]

There is another narration from Khidr (’alayis-salaatu wa salaam) which mentions the thumbs in, Tadhkiratul-Mawdoo’aat (p. 36), al-Mawdoo’aatul-Kabeer (p. 75), Ahmad Yaar Khaan Bareilwi in Jaa‘ul-Haqq (p. 378) from Maqaasidul-Hasanah, Muhammad ’Umar in Maqyaas Khaafiyat (p. 601).

Al-’Allaamah Muhammad Taahir and Mullaa ’Alee al-Qaaree writes,

“There are a lot of majhool (unknown) narrators in the isnaad and it is also munqati’ (disconnected)” [18]

Then how can we insert this narration in the Religion, Imaam al-Bayhaqee writes in one place, “In this isnaad there are a number of majhool narrators, and Allaah the Glorified and Exalted has not made us responsible that we take our Religion from unknown narrators.”[19]

Footnotes:

[1] Shaykh Muhammad Naasirud-Deen al-Albaanee (rahimahullaah) says, “This hadeeth is not Saheeh and has been attributed to Aboo Bakr Siddeeq (marfoo’an) by ad-Daylamee in Musnadul-Firdaws. However, Ibn Taahir says in at-Tadhkirah that it is not Saheeh and Imaam ash-Shawkaanee also says the same in al-Hadeethul-Mawdoo’ah (p. 9), and Imaam as-Sakhaawee has also said that it is not Saheeh in al-Maqaasid.

[2] Jaa‘ul-Haqq (p. 382)

[3] Saheeh: Related by Aboo Daawood (no. 4607) and by at-Tirmidhee (no. 2676). It was authenticated by Shaykh al-Albaanee in Irwaa‘ul-Ghaleel (no. 2455).

[4] al-Mawdoo’aatul-Kabeer (p. 65)

[5] Jaa‘ul-Haqq (p. 382)

[6] Maqyaas Khaafiyat (p. 602)

[7] Jaa‘ul-Haqq (p. 383)

[8] al-Qawlul-Badee’ah (p. 165)

[9] Imaam (2/171)

[10] Refer to al-Qawlul-Badee’ah (p. 195), Tadreebur-Raawee (1/298-299), Fathul-Mugeeth (1/268).

[11] Related by Muslim (1/8)

[12] al-Aathaarul-Marfoo’ah fil-Akhbaaril-Mawdooa’ah (p. 310)

[13] ’Arfaanush-Sharee’ah (3/27)

[14] Ahkaamul-Ahkaam (1/51)

[15] al-Qawlul-Badee’ah (p. 195)

[16] al-Qawlul-Badee’ah (p. 196)

[17] Tayseerul-Maqaal lis-Suyootee from ’Imaadud-Deen (p. 123)

[18] Refer to Tadhkiratul-Mawdoo’aat (p. 36), and al-Mawdoo’aatul-Kabeer (p. 75).

[19] Kitaabul-Qurraa‘ (p. 127)

now this article shows its wrong, so what is a normal chap like moi posed to do, i wana follow the sunnah 100% every one does, and there should be sufficient evidence that a certain thin is a sunnah, personally i havent seen any sufficient evidence, because the one i have seen has deemed to be dhaef, so obviously manz is gona be doubted, so i not gona do to be on safe side, hence my view on it :D

lol and in reply to the statements :p

HAQ IS ALWAYS REVEALED LOL :D

na lol i aint sayin this view is haq and the others aint, i dont know, Allah (swt) knows, but i doubt it, so me gona leave :shade:
Reply

Gangster No.1
05-24-2007, 11:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by HBot 5000
:sl:

Does not work for me too, perhaps Allah :arabic4: does not want us to read the article!?

:w:
That is VERY STUPID 2 say. it dosent work, for what ever reason
cant say allah dosnt want us 2 see, you dont even no what it is.
:w:
Reply

chacha_jalebi
05-24-2007, 11:12 AM
^ lool innit :p psssssh anyway its up and livin :D read it :D

and any views please in a sensible mannerism :p
Reply

HBot 5000
05-24-2007, 11:13 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gangster No.1
That is VERY STUPID 2 say. it dosent work, for what ever reason
cant say allah dosnt want us 2 see, you dont even no what it is.
:w:
:sl:

I forgive you for insulting me gangster. :astagfiru

:w:
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-24-2007, 11:13 AM
laa iqra haafidheen akhee

make istikhaara innit

i still think its permissable.

may Allah reward our good intentions. Ameen
Reply

taimur_9000
05-24-2007, 11:14 AM
At the end of the day i think everyone has there own opinions. I personally think its ok as its not like your doing a sin or shirk.

format_quote Originally Posted by HBot 5000
:sl:

First : www.daruliftaa.org - this is a really weird website? Is it a joke?

Second : I used to kiss my nails before i went to suadi, but i never saw anyone of them doing such a thing so i stopped too.
:thumbs_up


:w:
Mind you that quite a majority and the government of saudi arabia are ******* so they wouldn't do such thing. i am sorry i have recently started to become to my best a true muslim so i cant remember the names or so. But when i went to umra the guide was telling me they were blocking all the wells and the soil that's ment to have shiffa in it the government washes it away every year so people dont collect it. i am sorry if i am wrong...

:w:
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-24-2007, 11:15 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gangster No.1
That is VERY STUPID 2 say. it dosent work, for what ever reason
cant say allah dosnt want us 2 see, you dont even no what it is.
:w:
:uuh:


bro did u kno that even if a bullet misses you by the slightest fraction its Allahs will and had been written that you dont get hit by that bullet.
so why do you call it stupid that he says what he said?
Reply

taimur_9000
05-24-2007, 11:16 AM
y does it censor? i din't swear...
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-24-2007, 11:19 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by taimur_9000
y does it censor? i din't swear...
the term is deemed offensive bro lol :)

i kno u didnt mean to offend

and im aware of saudi's state.... i read a lot about it and was distressed :(
Reply

chacha_jalebi
05-24-2007, 11:20 AM
what taimur bro?

please dont go round callin people W A H H A BI :p (thats the way to type it :shade:)

because wahhab is one of the names of Allah (swt) so if your callin sum1 dat its not offensive, cos its the name of Allah (swt) and the person Imam ibn abdul wahab, never told people to follow him, he only showed the true Islam and told people to follow that!

and sects and stuff in islam is again in my view wrong, we are one, may Allah (swt) get that in our heads and guide us:D
Reply

HBot 5000
05-24-2007, 11:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
:uuh:


bro did u kno that even if a bullet misses you by the slightest fraction its Allahs will and had been written that you dont get hit by that bullet.
so why do you call it stupid that he says what he said?
:amin:
Reply

chacha_jalebi
05-24-2007, 11:22 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by taimur_9000
But when i went to umra the guide was telling me they were blocking all the wells and the soil that's ment to have shiffa in it the government washes it away every year so people dont collect it. i am sorry if i am wrong...

:w:
i think the saudi govt have their views and obviosly gona apply them in their country, but this is beyond me, how can you get shifaa from a well? lol
Reply

Gangster No.1
05-24-2007, 11:23 AM
:sl:

:? Forgive me, if i did insult.
I was making an point thats all.:thumbs_up

:w:
Reply

taimur_9000
05-24-2007, 11:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by HBot 5000
:sl:

Does not work for me too, perhaps Allah :arabic4: does not want us to read the article!?

:w:
Its not even a registered domain...
Reply

chacha_jalebi
05-24-2007, 11:25 AM
lol if the link had caused so much probs its here

http://www.allaahuakbar.net/barelwiy..._in_adhaan.htm

and i posted the article

now back on topic eh:D
Reply

Gangster No.1
05-24-2007, 11:31 AM
I hardly get that artcle,

summarise it please

Jazakalh
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-24-2007, 11:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gangster No.1
I hardly get that artcle,

summarise it please

Jazakalh

loool u make me laugh a LOT :D
Reply

------
05-24-2007, 11:34 AM
:salamext:

LOL leave the bro alone man....hes probably new to this Islamic stuff n that...
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-24-2007, 11:35 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muj4h1d4
:salamext:

LOL leave the bro alone man....hes probably new to this Islamic stuff n that...
leave him alone :uuh:

you making me sound like some fat bully lol

naa i like it, lol, i want it summarized too :D
Reply

IceQueen~
05-24-2007, 11:44 AM
Why are you all bringing up issues of disagreement lately?

I thought this was against the forum rules?

And there isn't much point anyway since whoever believes in whatever still believes in the same thing so why bother going through a very delicate area which can easily bubble into arguements and ill-feelings between eachother?

We're Muslims and we're all part of ONE UMMAH- we believe in the same God and the same Prophet (saw)

We should never concentrate on little issues because there are much more bigger things going on in the world to bother with teensy weensy details

and besides Allah will judge everyone according to how He sees fit because only He knows their true intentions and feelings

How do we know Allah might accept things from some and some other things from others?

The thing is, the shaytaan is busying us in little details when there are much more important things that need seeing to like the worldwide disunity of this Ummah, and the Muslims who are losing their lives- isn't this much more major?!


And lastly I don't mean to offend anyone about anything, and if I have please forgive me- it wasn't my intention
But please can we not discuss these topics on the forum?

Maybe if someone wants to post something they can ask the mods to close the thread after they've posted so no discussion can start...(because that opens the doors to ill-feelings between members..)

May Allah Guide us all and Unite us as One Ummah amiin

:w:
Reply

Gangster No.1
05-24-2007, 11:55 AM
I agree on the part where you say we should discuss on world issues, around muslims especially because that what evrythng boils down 2, muslims!

However we should still discuss topics relating to issues of out imaan, and to supply knowledge to brothers and sisters in this forum, as sum are here to arue, and sum are here to learn.

Inshallah we all see each other in paradise.
:thumbs_up

:w:
Reply

taimur_9000
05-24-2007, 11:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by IceQueen~
Why are you all bringing up issues of disagreement lately?

I thought this was against the forum rules?

And there isn't much point anyway since whoever believes in whatever still believes in the same thing so why bother going through a very delicate area which can easily bubble into arguements and ill-feelings between eachother?

We're Muslims and we're all part of ONE UMMAH- we believe in the same God and the same Prophet (saw)

We should never concentrate on little issues because there are much more bigger things going on in the world to bother with teensy weensy details

and besides Allah will judge everyone according to how He sees fit because only He knows their true intentions and feelings

How do we know Allah might accept things from some and some other things from others?

The thing is, the shaytaan is busying us in little details when there are much more important things that need seeing to like the worldwide disunity of this Ummah, and the Muslims who are losing their lives- isn't this much more major?!


And lastly I don't mean to offend anyone about anything, and if I have please forgive me- it wasn't my intention
But please can we not discuss these topics on the forum?

Maybe if someone wants to post something they can ask the mods to close the thread after they've posted so no discussion can start...(because that opens the doors to ill-feelings between members..)

May Allah Guide us all and Unite us as One Ummah amiin

:w:
I totally 120% agree with you sister. Thread should be closed. I am sorry for posting it i shouldnt have posted it. Sorry to anyone if i caused haraam or upset someone. May allah forgive me for my wrong doings ameen. Take care.


:w:
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
05-24-2007, 01:30 PM
icequeen i dont really care about the disagreement, its much more the disregard for other opinions.

but point taken Alhamdulillah
Reply

------
05-24-2007, 01:49 PM
Originally Posted by Gangster No.1
However we should still discuss topics relating to issues of out imaan, and to supply knowledge to brothers and sisters in this forum, as sum are here to arue, and sum are here to learn.
:salamext:

Exactly brother, ur right.
Reply

HBot 5000
05-24-2007, 01:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gangster No.1
I agree on the part where you say we should discuss on world issues, around muslims especially because that what evrythng boils down 2, muslims!

However we should still discuss topics relating to issues of out imaan, and to supply knowledge to brothers and sisters in this forum, as sum are here to arue, and sum are here to learn.

Inshallah we all see each other in paradise.
:thumbs_up

:w:
:sl:

No-one is here to argue. We are hear to learn. Through debates we learn more and increase our faith.


:w:
Reply

Ibn Abi Ahmed
05-24-2007, 01:58 PM
:sl:

Thread has gone on long enough. Both sides are shown, let the reader decide which is closer to the truth Insha'Allaah.

:threadclo
Reply

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