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NobleMuslimUK
05-26-2007, 11:14 PM
:sl:
I will give my two cents on the free will concept. I would welcome people to share their views.
Free will is directly related to how we think. If we think of something then we make an intention, whether we will put that thought into action or not, so this is our free will.
Not everything we can think can be put into practice. When I was studying martial arts, I would see or think of a move then I could either do the move or I couldnt, in my mind I was able to do that move but when it was time to put it into practise it was a whole different story. I got many injuries trying to do moves I thought I was able to but no matter how hard I tried it didnt work.

When I was studying science my teachers unanimously agreed that the human mind has a limit to what we can even think of, both in terms of what is possible and what is impossible. For example no matter how hard we try to depict the unseen, we can never put a precise picture to it.

In the Holy Quran we are told by Allah swt that we can only do what Allah has allowed us to do, or what Allah has willed us to do. The freedom here is of the thought but Allah swt has given us limited mental capacity to comprehend.
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Woodrow
05-26-2007, 11:19 PM
Originally Posted by NobleMuslimUK
:sl:
I will give my two cents on the free will concept. I would welcome people to share their views.
Free will is directly related to how we think. If we think of something then we make an intention, whether we will put that thought into action or not, so this is our free will.
Not everything we can think can be put into practice. When I was studying martial arts, I would see or think of a move then I could either do the move or I couldnt, in my mind I was able to do that move but when it was time to put it into practise it was a whole different story. I got many injuries trying to do moves I thought I was able to but no matter how hard I tried it didnt work.

When I was studying science my teachers unanimously agreed that the human mind has a limit to what we can even think of, both in terms of what is possible and what is impossible. For example no matter how hard we try to depict the unseen, we can never put a precise picture to it.

In the Holy Quran we are told by Allah swt that we can only do what Allah has allowed us to do, or what Allah has willed us to do. The freedom here is of the thought but Allah swt has given us limited mental capacity to comprehend.
all I know is Allah(swt) is just and merciful. He would not ask us to do what is byond our abilities. So since we will be held accountable for what we do and/or fail to do it can only mean he has given the ability for us to choose as we desire.
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NobleMuslimUK
05-26-2007, 11:32 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
all I know is Allah(swt) is just and merciful. He would not ask us to do what is byond our abilities. So since we will be held accountable for what we do and/or fail to do it can only mean he has given the ability for us to choose as we desire.
Bro I think alot of people get this part wrong that they can freely do whatever they wish whether good or bad. Allah swt indeed is most merciful and most just, also He has absolute knowledge. Allah swt will not hold us accountable for our intentions since the intention cannot be materialised without the will of Allah swt. But when the intention becomes action its the ACTION we have taken, even though Allah swt has allowed it.

If a person is committing a sin without knowing its a sin or how grave a sin it is then, maybe Allah swt will guide that person since they dont have proper understanding of what they are doing.

If a person is committing a sin knowingly, then that person faces severe punishment, maybe Allah swt will allow the person to carry on committing sins and thus the person is blinded to the truth.
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Woodrow
05-26-2007, 11:58 PM
Originally Posted by NobleMuslimUK
Bro I think alot of people get this part wrong that they can freely do whatever they wish whether good or bad. Allah swt indeed is most merciful and most just, also He has absolute knowledge. Allah swt will not hold us accountable for our intentions since the intention cannot be materialised without the will of Allah swt. But when the intention becomes action its the ACTION we have taken, even though Allah swt has allowed it.

If a person is committing a sin without knowing its a sin or how grave a sin it is then, maybe Allah swt will guide that person since they dont have proper understanding of what they are doing.

If a person is committing a sin knowingly, then that person faces severe punishment, maybe Allah swt will allow the person to carry on committing sins and thus the person is blinded to the truth.
A very important part is we will be held accountable for all we do or do not do. This being held accountable means that there are rewards and/or punishments for our choices. We are free to do as we please, but we will be required to pay the price of what we choose. To have free will carries with it a great responsibility as our decisions in this life will be our choice for hellfire or jannah in our eternal life that is yet to come.
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Philosopher
05-26-2007, 11:59 PM
There is no such thing as free will, scientifically speaking.
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Woodrow
05-27-2007, 12:08 AM
Originally Posted by Philosopher
There is no such thing as free will, scientifically speaking.
As with many of your statements, you are scientifically correct. Fortunately the universe consists of much more than that which we can quantify and qualify.
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NobleMuslimUK
05-27-2007, 12:13 AM
Originally Posted by Philosopher
There is no such thing as free will, scientifically speaking.
Scientific math classifies or categorises it all into chance or probability.
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Medina83
05-27-2007, 12:15 AM
Originally Posted by NobleMuslimUK
Allah swt will not hold us accountable for our intentions since the intention cannot be materialised without the will of Allah swt. But when the intention becomes action its the ACTION we have taken, even though Allah swt has allowed it.
salam
i read Hadith today or yesterday ( im starting to get confused cos its late) where Rasulullah sallallahu alaihi wa salam said along the lines of:
If we have intention to do good thing and we dont do it, Allah write us one good deed
If we have intention to do good thing and we do it, Allah write us between 10 and 700 good deeds
If we have intention to do bad thing and we stop ourselves, Allah swt grant us one good deed for this
If we have intention to do bad thing and we do it, Allah write one bad deed for this.

Also in another Hadith, Rasulullah sallallahu alaihi wa selam said something along lines of :
If Allah swt rewards for good, then He also punishes for bad.

Allah please forgive me if i made a mistake
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Philosopher
05-27-2007, 01:42 AM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
As with many of your statements, you are scientifically correct. Fortunately the universe consists of much more than that which we can quantify and qualify.
Such as??
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Philosopher
05-27-2007, 01:42 AM
Originally Posted by NobleMuslimUK
Scientific math classifies or categorises it all into chance or probability.
Wow...strong ignorance.
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Woodrow
05-27-2007, 02:14 AM
Originally Posted by Philosopher
Such as??
Nothing you would believe. But just to mention some of what we have been told about,

Allah(swt), Angels, Jinn, Heaven, Hell
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Philosopher
05-27-2007, 02:33 AM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Nothing you would believe. But just to mention some of what we have been told about,

Allah(swt), Angels, Jinn, Heaven, Hell
So you have no empirical evidence. Case closed. You have as much evidence as Hindus or Christians.....none.
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Woodrow
05-27-2007, 03:12 AM
Originally Posted by Philosopher
So you have no empirical evidence. Case closed. You have as much evidence as Hindus or Christians.....none.
Does it not strike you as being odd that over 1 billion people from all walks of life do not require any more proof than the Qur'an? To me I have sufficient proof that the Qur'an is the true word of God(as). That primarily being the manner in which the Qur'an is written. Being a lover of linguistics I can see the complexity in the writing and can not fathom how a Human could have written it. the Qur'anic challenge is a very valid challenge and so far no person has been able to meet it. To me that is sufficient proof of the validity of the Qur'an and the fact it is true. Being the true word of God(swt) it is proof in itself and I have no need of further proof.

I accept your right not to accept that as proof and I doubt that you will.
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NobleMuslimUK
05-27-2007, 03:39 AM
Originally Posted by Philosopher
Wow...strong ignorance.
How can I put this, scientifically looking at free will power is related to the thought process. What made you write a reply here, you chose to do so for that you had to make a mental decision which then you put into action, so in conclusion you exercised your free will.

The chance or probability of you not doing so could be anything out of anything. I wont bother doing the math...
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Philosopher
05-27-2007, 04:20 AM
Originally Posted by NobleMuslimUK
How can I put this, scientifically looking at free will power is related to the thought process. What made you write a reply here, you chose to do so for that you had to make a mental decision which then you put into action, so in conclusion you exercised your free will.

The chance or probability of you not doing so could be anything out of anything. I wont bother doing the math...
1.) If you believe in free will, you are denying Allah's existence because Allah is omniscient.

2.) Everything is created of atoms. All atoms have a deterministic nature.

It has nothing to do with chance.
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Medina83
05-27-2007, 01:58 PM
Originally Posted by Philosopher
There is no such thing as free will, scientifically speaking.
Can you tell us what science says in respect of this capability within humans? If there is no such thing as free will, then what is it scientifically that gives humans the ability to recognise options and make choices? can you explain the science behind our thought processes?

Take this out of the religious sphere and speak as a scientist (if u are one?:) )
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