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Maverick
05-27-2007, 05:40 AM
I just saw this videoclip from CBC News in Canada on youtube of some guy basically blaming Muslim community in Canada for terrorism! Looks like people will do anything to get on tv these days. Astaghfirullah, May Allah keep us safe from such fitnah.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cLyUpcYdKc
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vpb
05-27-2007, 05:49 AM
:sl:

ameen to the dua.
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Ra`eesah
05-27-2007, 05:52 AM
Assalamu'Alaykum

You know what do not let me cross path with this deviant Shia, yea I said it he is Shia. Subahanallaah he’s calling my teacher which I study under a Terrorist? As well as All the Al Maghrib instructors.
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Maverick
05-27-2007, 06:08 AM
Thats the impression I had as well that he is shia. This video should definitely come to the attention of our Islamic leaders and teachers. Why doesnt someone do something about this guy???? How does he get away with bad mouthing Quraan ul Kareem?!! I was simply shocked!
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wilberhum
05-27-2007, 06:09 AM
It seams to be that he is trying to stop radicalism. I think that is a good thing.
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Philosopher
05-27-2007, 06:16 AM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
It seams to be that he is trying to stop radicalism. I think that is a good thing.
Agreed. We need more Muslims like him.
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Ra`eesah
05-27-2007, 09:49 AM
Like what exactly?
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'Abd al-Baari
05-27-2007, 09:57 AM
:sl:

Astagfirullah..that was really shocking
May Allah keep us away from such fitnah and guide us all..Ameen
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guyabano
05-27-2007, 11:40 AM
Originally Posted by Philosopher
Agreed. We need more Muslims like him.
He's a good muslim, and has the guts to speak out and fight radicalism.
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S_87
05-27-2007, 01:30 PM
Originally Posted by Philosopher
Agreed. We need more Muslims like him.
pfffffft well the al maghrib website isnt hidden or anything here you go

http://www.almaghrib.org/home.php

radical much? i dont think so
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Umar001
05-27-2007, 01:39 PM
That's under the asumption that stopping radicalism is under his intention.

This could eithre make him good or totally bad, because if he is lying then that is totally wrong, right?

But as Muslims I dont think I should say his intentions are bad, maybe he is genuily unaware of things.

may Allah guide us

I have to edit this: Whoever made the video should fear Allah and not attribute something which is not true! The Guy didnt say anything about Qur'an but rather the commentary and articles in it. SubhanAllah!
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Israa
05-27-2007, 02:34 PM
i didn't see anything which he said to be 'shocking', he didn't badmouth the quran all. And Maverick what fitnah are you talkng about bro?
the guy didn't betray Muslims at all and he wasn't blaming the Muslim community in Canada for terrorism either instead he said that the Muslim community 'has failed to shut out radical propaganda', basically the Muslim community could do better.
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ismahan
05-27-2007, 02:59 PM
I agree with you Israa, some people take things way out of context sometimes. I think think he was a brave Muslim for speaking out against radicalism.
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S_87
05-27-2007, 03:10 PM
Originally Posted by ismahan
I agree with you Israa, some people take things way out of context sometimes. I think think he was a brave Muslim for speaking out against radicalism.
:sl:

IS he speaking out against radicalism though?
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Maverick
05-27-2007, 08:29 PM
Yeh well when someone says that they follow "Sufism, which rejects the ideology of Jihad"....or that the Muslim community should be blamed for the 17 Muslim kids who are accused of attempting to bomb the CN tower - this is what he is referring to by the way if you didn't know...then I think it's pretty clear as to if he's blaming Muslims for allowing "extremism" to operate within their mosques. What you guys are saying is basically that he did a good thing because he's fighting terrorism. That's what it may appear like, but if you knew his reputation in Toronto, you would know that he is a "Faykh" rather than a "Shaykh."

I just did a simple search on google which gives this:



"They would enter into the mosque to pray, and they would pray in a very aggressive manner, and they would come in military fatigues and military touques and stuff. It looked to me that they were watching a lot of those Chechnyan jihad videos online and stuff."

Amiruddin is a teacher of Sufism, a traditional brand of Islam that rejects the ideology of jihad. Amiruddin says the group was seduced by hardline propaganda financed by the Saudi government and promoting a strict, ******* brand of Islam.

He says the Saudis have flooded Canada with free Qur'ans, laced with jihadist commentary.

"In the back of these Qur'ans that are being published in Saudi Arabia, you have basically essays on the need for offensive jihad and the legitimacy of offensive jihad and things like that. Very alarming stuff," he said.

Amiruddin said many mainstream Muslim organizations in Canada are really part of the problem, standing by as extremist propaganda spreads in the mosques.

Recruiting young teens

Amiruddin says Khalid underwent a rapid transition from a clean-cut Canadian teenager to a long-haired, radicalized introvert.

He says the young men would pray by themselves, and try to recruit younger teens to the fundamentalist ******* view.

Amiruddin says Khalid stopped coming to the mosque after he befriended 43-year-old Qayyum Abdul Jamal, another key suspect, who once preached that Canadian forces were in Afghanistan to rape Muslim women.

Amiruddin also has a theory as to why Khalid may have been open to such influences.

"His mother passed away and let's say within the first month of his mom passing away, his girlfriend, who was not Muslim, dumped him. And then from that within a year you have this radical turnaround right? Even Fahim Ahmad, he was in love with a girl who constantly rejected him, right? Maybe he was just looking for love? I can't say for certain, but this was something I found common with these young guys."
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Islamicboy
05-27-2007, 08:38 PM
edit
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Islamicboy
05-27-2007, 08:40 PM
edit
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Ra`eesah
05-28-2007, 03:30 PM
Assalamu'Alaykum


You know what never mind he is not shia he is nashqabandi... that explains a lot. Like bro Maverick showed. and the fact he keeps saying " Madina" Madina? what is his point? Madina is launching terrorists? Subhanallaah open your eyes don’t blindly follow what you hear. Verify it and I will speak against anyone who says that Al Maghrib teachers are from the EXTREME RADICAL group. Nonsense. As for you guyabano sorry to say this but you have no right saying who is a” good Muslim” and who is not.
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Al-Hanbali
05-28-2007, 03:40 PM
:salamext:

What on earth is the guy going on about.

He calls Madinah uni "extreme & radical". What a joke.
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Maverick
05-28-2007, 07:06 PM
That's the whole thing. Has he done research about Madinah University???
He has no quaifications to come on tv and speak about these things. When dirtbags like him come on television to speak about Islam, saying things like they would wear military fatigues to the mosque n pray hard....you can buy military fatigues from Wal Mart!! And why is he watching other people praying while he's praying? So if they pray hard that doesn't mean they are radical. If he really wanted to stop radicalism, then he should start by correcting himself first.

And I don't think Sufis are against Jihad either because I've read of many mujahideen who were sufis. So then what does that make Amiruddin?
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Maverick
05-28-2007, 07:10 PM
And even though I don't know much about this sufi stuff, I know Allah hu ta'ala informs us to hold fast to the rope of Allah. Guys like him are opportunists and liars. I dunno what nashqbandi?
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Noor
05-28-2007, 09:25 PM
How disheartening to watch such a pathetic fool rant, turly he is an enemy from within.
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wilberhum
05-28-2007, 09:36 PM
Originally Posted by Noor
How disheartening to watch such a pathetic fool rant, turly he is an enemy from within.
I truly don't understand. When I witch the video, I see a Muslim speaking out against radicalism. What do you see that I don't? Please explain in words a non-Muslim could understand.
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Noor
05-28-2007, 09:48 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
I truly don't understand. When I witch the video, I see a Muslim speaking out against radicalism. What do you see that I don't? Please explain in words a non-Muslim could understand.
Maybe all those potions you keep brewing is making you ability to think much more difficult! Witchcraft was never something I was too keen on. I bet you're glad the salem witch trials are over with. Also delighted you live in Seattle. But all that rain pouring down must have made for a boring childhood!

Being AlMagrib student myself, it is evident that this character is not benefiting from any proper knowledge he gets, if any, at all.

It's a sad world out there! Alhamdulilah, I'm Muslim!
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wilberhum
05-28-2007, 09:53 PM
Originally Posted by Noor
Maybe all those potions you keep brewing is making you ability to think much more difficult! Witchcraft was never something I was too keen on. I bet you're glad the salem witch trials are over with. Also delighted you live in Seattle. But all that rain pouring down must have made for a boring childhood!

Being AlMagrib student myself, it is evident that this character is not benefiting from any proper knowledge he gets, if any, at all.

It's a sad world out there! Alhamdulilah, I'm Muslim!
Do you treat all honest questions with such spite. :?
Is there anyone out there who is willing to give an honest answer to an honest question?
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Maverick
05-29-2007, 07:42 AM
I think the proof is right infront of you Wilberhum. For one, he is labeling the second holiest city in the world for Muslims as a safe-haven for terrorists, this is simply a load of crap! And of all places the the university! You like using proof, did he show any proof, or do you have any of this being true, of going so far as to connect the city of the Prophet Muhammad (p.b.u.h.) to binLaden, this is an outright lie for starters. Secondly, he doesn't even KNOW ANY OF THE YOUTHS implicated in the events which transpired in Toronto. Basically he should have been smarter before going on television and bringing our faith into the mix of things and making it a target for dissection. If it is PROVEN that someone has done wrong as you like to use PROOF, then please go ahead and prove it. Could you also prove his claims of the existence of the need for offensive jihad essays in the backs of Qur'ans? His attacks against al-Maghrib are just completely unrelated to the matters which were supposed to be discussed. Neither are Madinah, the Qur'an - and there isnt a perversion of religion, there's no such thing, it's a perversion of people, like the one you see in the CBC video.
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Maverick
05-29-2007, 07:51 AM
Is Christianity ever blamed for the rise of Nazi Germany's wrath upon humanity? Or how about Bush's Iraq war?? Does the world ever point the finger at Christianity as being the reason for the mass exodus of the Muslim populations of Bosnians, ethnic Albanians, Christian Bosnians and others from the wrath of Slobadan Milosevic? Was Christianity blamed for the actions of Slobadan Milosevic? So since Christianity was not blamed for the actions of such monsters, why do you then feel the need to believe that Islam is to blame of being perverted and used? If that is what you believe, then others have every right to scream at the top of their lungs the Christian terror and radicalism and extremism which has wreaked havoc upon this world. In that particular scenario it would only be fair. But if you are a person of reason with some level of intellect you would know as I know that this is not the case. And someone should tell Amiruddin that "this is where the problem lies."
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wilberhum
05-29-2007, 09:09 PM
Maverick
Thank you. :thumbs_up
But, I still like what the man said. I think he recognizes a problem and is trying to stop it.
Also I don't see how this relates to Nazi Germany. :skeleton: But that's OK.
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S_87
05-29-2007, 09:22 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Maverick
Thank you. :thumbs_up
But, I still like what the man said. I think he recognizes a problem and is trying to stop it.
Also I don't see how this relates to Nazi Germany. :skeleton: But that's OK.
Peace

the problem is he is talking about people who are not terrorists but rather his talk is coming from secretarian differences. and hes lying
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Islamicboy
05-29-2007, 09:26 PM
Edit
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wilberhum
05-29-2007, 09:43 PM
After his interview this guy was attacked and beaten up by couple teenagers (muslims).
Now that clarifies who "The Bad Guys" are.
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Islamicboy
05-29-2007, 10:41 PM
Delete
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wilberhum
05-29-2007, 10:50 PM
Originally Posted by Islamicboy
Sure those teenagers could be seen as bad guys. But then agian this happens when excited teenagers run around looking for trouble. This happens all the time in America, Canada and many western countries. Should we then generalize it to the entire christian, Jewish, or even the entire country as bad guys?
You should judge others by what they do. One should never generalize. Each person is there own, only responsible for what they can do. But as I said:
Now that clarifies who "The Bad Guys" are.
Did you think I was talking about anybody but the violent criminals?
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Islamicboy
05-29-2007, 11:28 PM
Delete
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wilberhum
05-30-2007, 01:42 AM
Originally Posted by Islamicboy
Stop playing with words. You know what you mean't I know what you mean't. Now lets just leave it at that.
No lets not leave it at that.
You accuse me of bigoted bias because I call people who beat up a man because they don't like what he said, violent criminals.
That is nothing but hate and intolerance and I condemn it. :raging: :raging:

If you want to read more into it than that, you need to check out your own bias. :?
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Maverick
05-30-2007, 02:02 PM
Wilberhum. This Sayyid Ahmed Amiruddin doesn't care about Muslims or Islam. Do you really think you can sit there and spoon feed us that he is doing the right thing? Based on what? A few accusations? Where's the basis. Not one shred yet from you. What is it that he said right? You have received all the details just on this thread to let you begin your understanding, pertaining to why he lied big time.

And please stick to the topic being discussed. It remains that he came on television and made blatant accusations against Muslims, our faith of Islam, and Muslim organizations. Think a little bit harder Wilberhum.
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wilberhum
05-30-2007, 07:42 PM
Do you really think you can sit there and spoon feed us that he is doing the right thing?
Spoon feed us? Get a life. :?
I see the man as "Anit-Terrorism". I don't see that as a bad thing. :thumbs_up
How in the H do you come off with someone having an openion different that yours as "Spoon Feeding"? :raging:
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Islamicboy
05-30-2007, 08:30 PM
Delete
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wilberhum
05-30-2007, 08:48 PM
Originally Posted by Islamicboy
I never accused you of being a bigoted bias can you please quote me where i call you that? I call people who beat up anyone without a justification a violent criminals too.


From reading this i get that you are refering to any muslim who disagrees with what he says as bad guy. Even though no one was praising there actions and most muslims even condemed it.
1) Implied by the way you answered.
2) See, I think YOUR bias led you to think I was judging Muslims. Definatly not the case. I judge people by what they do, not by there religion. Every religion has it's share of good and bad people.

So all is well not, I hope.
Now arn't you glad I didn't "Just drop it"?
when misunderstanding becomes understanding, it is a good thing.

Peace,
Wilber
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Maverick
05-30-2007, 08:56 PM
Spoon feed us? Get a life.
Listen Wilberhum, I never insulted you, I told you that you can't expect people to follow what Amiruddin says just because you believe it without backing up his claims. That is called spoon feeding. There's no need to take things personally. You sound like a very angry person with all your raging. It's not your opinion that bothers me. I think you are missing the point, CLEARLY. Everyone who has posted here is anti-terrorism. But why should Muslims accept anti-Qur'an, anti-Muslim, anti-Islam rhetoric from a bafoon who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. And like I said before, you still haven't provided one statement to back up what Amiruddin has said.

There are numerous other people out there who are Muslim leaders of the community and regular people who could have been interviewed and come on television and done a better job than him. My 8-year old nephew would have done a better job than him in declaring Muslims condemnation of terrorism but at the same time would not make bashful and ignorant statements. Still waiting for your "PROOF."
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wilberhum
05-30-2007, 11:51 PM
Maverick,
I think I made my feelings quite clear about "Spoon feed", and they remain.
If you are unable to see the insult in that, you need to reread.
You sound like a very angry person with all your raging.
You know, some times I get that way. When I ask a straight forward question with a true desire to understand any the replies I get are insulting and derogatory. That tends to break my normal laughing mood.
There's no need to take things personally.
I don't know about you, but when I'm falsely accused, I take it personally.
But why should Muslims accept anti-Qur'an, anti-Muslim, anti-Islam rhetoric from a bafoon who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.
Never ask you to. I ask why you thought he was "anti-Qur'an, anti-Muslim, anti-Islam".
There are numerous other people out there who are Muslim leaders of the community and regular people who could have been interviewed and come on television and done a better job than him.
Because others have "done a better job than him", does not make him wrong.
My 8-year old nephew would have done a better job than him
Now that is nothing but bigotry. And gives me concern about taking anything you say as an honest assement.
Still waiting for your "PROOF."
No! See my signature.
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Maverick
05-31-2007, 06:00 AM
I think I made my feelings quite clear about "Spoon feed", and they remain.
If you are unable to see the insult in that, you need to reread.
You are very sensitive! To take offense to someone you have never met telling you they do not want to be "spoon fed"... :? Like I said this is supposed to be a discussion. Not about hurt feelings over someone telling you they do not want to be spoon fed ridiculous hearsay, to swallow nonsense said by a person about their faith.


You know, some times I get that way. When I ask a straight forward question with a true desire to understand any the replies I get are insulting and derogatory. That tends to break my normal laughing mood.
I would understand if someone called you a name or used deragatory words against you, but nothing of the sort was done spoon fed is not even close please. If it was, the moderators would have removed it according to the rules of this forum. If you feel so strongly about it then complain. But believe what you want, everyone here is entitled to agree to disagree as far as I know.

When you say:

I don't know about you, but when I'm falsely accused, I take it personally.
Falsely accused of what? You cannot even mention what it was after saying you were falsely accused. Come on give me a break.


Never ask you to. I ask why you thought he was "anti-Qur'an, anti-Muslim, anti-Islam".
The fact that you MISSED what I have already stated concerning those matters shows me that you didn't even read my post correctly. If u did you would have asked about my answers, but you didn't, instead you asked the same original question AGAIN of why I thought this or that but it's not about what I think, it's about the reality of what he said are false allegations against the holy book of Islam, generalization on ALL the Muslims in Canada, among other things. In case you missed it before........


Because others have "done a better job than him", does not make him wrong.
Mr. Wilberhum. Apparently you are not reading my posts. I said that there are people who are more qualified than him to speak on issues regarding terrorism. What Amiruddin did was fabricate things to a level that is not true. The Saudi Qur'ans have no essays in the back speaking of Jihad, those essays speak of Tauhid, Shirk, Jurisprudence. There is no mention of Jihad. Obviously you take what Amiruddin says at face value without verifying what he has said as being a fact, or fiction - and it is fiction.


Now that is nothing but bigotry. And gives me concern about taking anything you say as an honest assement.
Now you are the one making accusations, against me, of bigotry. If you cannot accept the fact that there are muslim children who can explain terrorism and that it does not have to do with the religion of Islam itself, that is your own problem but it is true! And again, very poor excuse of accusing me of bigotry to avoid responding to my answers of terrorism having nothing to do with Islam or our holy book... Nice try.


You are welcome to continue debating this matter as I said you're entitled to think whatever you want, but it doesn't mean that others have to accept what you might agree with as being something that is "good", or the "right thing."

Assalaam-Alaikum
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wilberhum
05-31-2007, 07:20 PM
You are welcome to continue debating this matter as I said you're entitled to think whatever you want, but it doesn't mean that others have to accept what you might agree with as being something that is "good", or the "right thing."
Never ask for anyone to agree, I ask for an explanation.
Go back to my first post.
What followed were insults, derogate statements and false allegations.
But this is not uncommon treatment given to a Dhimmi.
I will think twice before I ask for an explanation.
So I leave it at that.
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Ra`eesah
05-31-2007, 07:36 PM
Ok wilberhum, I can understand how you maybe feeling regarding this issue. But you have to understand, there is not just 2 sides here, meaning people like Amriudeen and "Radical" Muslims, there is also a group in-between those two. They are the group that do not agree with killing non Muslims for no reason, and also do not sit around letting non-Muslims oppress their Muslim brothers and sisters. I can say I am from that group. Now please I ask you to listen to this Brother talk its a few mins. It talks about this show called 'Dispatches - Undercover Mosques' anyway I want you to just listen and hear what he is saying regarding "Muslim Radicals" found in the Muslim community.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcOKzcPQkGY
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wilberhum
05-31-2007, 07:40 PM
Ra`eesah
First of all, I would like to thank you.

I will not be able to view the vido for about 8 more hours. But I will witch it tonight.

Again,
Thank you
Wilber
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wilberhum
06-01-2007, 02:07 AM
Ra`eesah
I just got through witching the video.
It was very helpful.

Thank you again.
Wilber
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Ra`eesah
06-01-2007, 04:23 AM
So would you call this man an extreme radical muslim?
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Yanal
06-01-2007, 04:28 AM
Originally Posted by Maverick
I just saw this videoclip from CBC News in Canada on youtube of some guy basically blaming Muslim community in Canada for terrorism! Looks like people will do anything to get on tv these days. Astaghfirullah, May Allah keep us safe from such fitnah.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cLyUpcYdKc
yes ameem
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wilberhum
06-01-2007, 04:32 AM
Originally Posted by Ra`eesah
So would you call this man an extreme radical muslim?
I did not quite agree with all that he said, but nothing he said was radical or extreme.

Nothing that made me say woooo poopie darn. :D
(I can only be serious so long and then I have to have some fun)

But see, you really get a different response out of me when I'm not treated like pond scum. :thumbs_up
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Ra`eesah
06-01-2007, 05:55 AM
Ok so this guy Amirudeen says that this man specifically and others like him are radical extreme Muslim. That is why we are upset because this man here is very educated he graduated from Harvard University and also graduated from that " EXTREME" University that he claims are hardcore radicals salafi extremists.

So this upsets me because what he is saying is a bunch of Lies, and Islam HATES liars. As the saying goes, " Curse the tongue that lies"
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wilberhum
06-01-2007, 06:05 AM
Originally Posted by Ra`eesah
Ok so this guy Amirudeen says that this man specifically and others like him are radical extreme Muslim. That is why we are upset because this man here is very educated he graduated from Harvard University and also graduated from that " EXTREME" University that he claims are hardcore radicals salafi extremists.

So this upsets me because what he is saying is a bunch of Lies, and Islam HATES liars. As the saying goes, " Curse the tongue that lies"
Ra`eesah,
I do understand. The video that you directed me to was excellent. It is sad that you were not the one that responded in the first place. The thread would have went a whole lot differently. Remember my question?
I truly don't understand. When I witch the video, I see a Muslim speaking out against radicalism. What do you see that I don't? Please explain in words a non-Muslim could understand.
So now, finely my question is answered.

So again,
Thank you
Wilber
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Islamicboy
06-04-2007, 07:59 PM
Sayyid Ahmed Amiruddin trys to defend himself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF_M0...elated&search=
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Maverick
06-06-2007, 12:58 AM
Someone already responded to that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEf38...elated&search=
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Malaikah
06-06-2007, 01:20 AM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
It seams to be that he is trying to stop radicalism. I think that is a good thing.
Keyword: seems.

He isn't fighting the radicals, he is targeting the moderates and calling them radical. That is the problem. It is fake. And to be honest it is really disappointing and frustrating!

This forum contains many lectures given by the al-maghrib institute instructors. Why now listen to them yourself to see who 'radical' they are. Try Muhammad al-Shareef, you already seem to have seen Yasir Qadhi.

Warning, the lack of references to 'violent jihad' might shock some viewers. :rollseyes
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