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Umu 'Isa
05-28-2007, 06:17 AM
Girl kills mom in religious row
24/05/2007

Sydney - A teenage girl who wanted to convert from Islam to Christianity stabbed her parents after blindfolding them on the pretext of presenting surprise gifts, an Australian court heard on Thursday.

The girl's mother died in the attack - during which 17-year-old Kaihana Tahseen Hussain shouted "Die both of you now" - her father told Southport Magistrates Court.

Bangladesh-born Muhammad Hussain, 49, said that after he and his wife were blindfolded in their bedroom, he felt something penetrate his stomach, followed by the warm sensation of blood flowing from the wound.

"Then she told me: 'This is your surprise,'" he said.

Hussain said the attack came two days after his wife and daughter had returned from a trip to Bangladesh and during the Islamic observance of Ramadan, the national AAP news agency reported.

He told the court he heard his wife say: "Tahseen has stabbed me. She was screaming: 'I'm dying' in Bengali."

The girl twice shouted "Die both of you now" - once in English and a second time in Bengali, Hussain said.

"In response, I told her: 'What mistake we have done for us to die?'"

Disorientated and losing blood, Hussain said he went for help outside, struggling in the process with his daughter as he went to open the front door.

Under cross-examination by defence lawyer Dennis Lynch, Hussain said he was "very angry" his daughter planned to convert from Islam to Christianity and disapproved of her relationship with an Australian university student.

The teenager frequently broke down in tears while her father gave evidence.

The hearing to decide whether she should face trial will resume in October.

Source



I think this shows how important it is to raise our children up with a fear of Allah from a young age.
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glo
05-28-2007, 10:27 AM
Such a tragic story!
I can't help but feel that such incidents could be avoided, if people were allowed to exercise their religious freedom ...
I wonder what kind of pressure that young girl was under to feel that killing her parents was her only escape route ... :cry:

I pray for peace and healing in this family.
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Malaikah
05-28-2007, 10:39 AM
:sl:

Shocking!!!!!!!! May Allah guide this girl. :cry:
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vpb
05-28-2007, 10:56 AM
:sl:
very bad, I know a case which happened close my neighborhood, the son was a drug addict, and he asked her mom for money, she didn't give him, and he stabbed here till she died. :(

what a tragedy a son/daughter to kill his parents. :( Astagfirullah
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cihad
05-28-2007, 11:00 AM
horrible
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England
05-28-2007, 12:10 PM
Shame. Perhaps her parents would have killed her for converting to Christianity therefore she got to them first. It happens all the time.
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- Qatada -
05-28-2007, 01:36 PM
Originally Posted by England
Shame. Perhaps her parents would have killed her for converting to Christianity therefore she got to them first. It happens all the time.

Maybe they wouldn't because they never had a right to? :?


Ameen to all the duas'. May Allaah guide us all to the correct path and keep us firm upon it, ameen.
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ozzy249
05-28-2007, 02:18 PM
Originally Posted by England
Shame. Perhaps her parents would have killed her for converting to Christianity therefore she got to them first. It happens all the time.
Are you trying to justify murder, what a shame!
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vpb
05-28-2007, 02:33 PM
Shame. Perhaps her parents would have killed her for converting to Christianity therefore she got to them first. It happens all the time.
Do you have any knowledge on what type of people they were? Have you met them? Talked to them? Do you know what they were going to do that she was converting to christianity? What kind of person are you that you make these type of statements? Be more kind, killing parents is never, ever the choice. Yes, you can get away from them, or anything but not kill them. Your thoughts seems to be pretty rotten for a person like you who claims to be civilized.
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Al-Zaara
05-28-2007, 02:34 PM
Asselamu aleykum,

SubhanAllah... That's just plain sick. Crazy girl, ya Allah save us from such madness.

Originally Posted by vpb
:sl:
very bad, I know a case which happened close my neighborhood, the son was a drug addict, and he asked her mom for money, she didn't give him, and he stabbed here till she died. :(

what a tragedy a son/daughter to kill his parents. :( Astagfirullah
Ncncnc. Ya Allah!!


Originally Posted by England
Shame. Perhaps her parents would have killed her for converting to Christianity therefore she got to them first. It happens all the time.
Perhaps. But this is not the case and there's no reason whatsoever for us to get hypothetical and start commenting, "what if...". This is a tragic happening, similiar things happen too often for too many "reasons" around the world.

Ameen to all the duas...
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England
05-28-2007, 02:49 PM
Why did you delete Barney's post? It wasn't off topic... It was a good point.
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- Qatada -
05-28-2007, 02:51 PM
Originally Posted by England
Why did you delete Barney's post? It wasn't off topic... It was a good point.

England, stop acting like you know it all. You're far from it, and so is barney. You know what i said to him when i deleted his post? I said an Islamic State is required to apply Islamic law, and there is no Islamic State today as it's been Prophecised.

If you really want to act like you're some next level hero who 'knows it all', then give it up, cuz you're not doing a good job of it here.



Regards.
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England
05-28-2007, 02:52 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
England, stop acting like you know it all. You're far from it, and so is barney. You know what i said to him when i deleted his post? I said an Islamic State is required to apply Islamic law, and there is no Islamic State today as it's been Prophecised.

If you really want to act like you're some next level hero who 'knows it all', then give it up, cuz you're not doing a good job of it here.



Regards.
You don't like being challenged do ya :giggling:
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Dagless
05-28-2007, 02:53 PM
Even if she had killed them both she probably would have been caught anyway, and since she was sobbing i'm guessing she wouldn't have been able to live with it. Moment of madness? Girls in general are too highly strung imo ;)
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- Qatada -
05-28-2007, 02:55 PM
Originally Posted by England
You don't like being challenged do ya :giggling:

You don't either init? :) Because the irony is that wherever you've thrown a claim which you copied and pasted from an anti islamic site, we refuted it and then you chose to run away. So i don't think it's me who's afraid of the challenge.



Regards.
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Al-Zaara
05-28-2007, 02:57 PM
Originally Posted by England
You don't like being challenged do ya :giggling:
He just doesn't like wannabe besserwissers. Neither does anyone else. Brother Fi's answer was logical and understandable. I hope you understood too.
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Strzelecki
05-28-2007, 03:16 PM
Just trying to think of what she could have been thinking at the time.
I never can understand what could possibly enrage someone enough to make them kill someone else.

Sad story. :(
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- Qatada -
05-28-2007, 03:21 PM
I think it's mentioned in the article that she knew of a guy in uni who probably was a christian, and he probably wanted her to become christian too since they had a relationship:


Hussain said he was "very angry" his daughter planned to convert from Islam to Christianity and disapproved of her relationship with an Australian university student.

So it's probably her feelings for the guy which made her do this, since we know that in Islaam a muslim woman can't get married to a non muslim man, and similarly in some christian denominations they can't get married to non christians. And Allaah knows best.
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vpb
05-28-2007, 03:23 PM
:sl:

whatever happened, killing parents is never justified unless in battle !!!!
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Suomipoika
05-28-2007, 03:32 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
England, stop acting like you know it all. You're far from it, and so is barney. You know what i said to him when i deleted his post? I said an Islamic State is required to apply Islamic law, and there is no Islamic State today as it's been Prophecised.

If you really want to act like you're some next level hero who 'knows it all', then give it up, cuz you're not doing a good job of it here.



Regards.
Just because there isnt Islamic State that is required to apply Islamic Law, doesnt really prevent people from trying to apply Islamic Law.

Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
I think it's mentioned in the article that she knew of a guy in uni who probably was a christian, and he probably wanted her to become christian too since they had a relationship:

So it's probably her feelings for the guy which made her do this, since we know that in Islaam a muslim woman can't get married to a non muslim man, and similarly in some christian denominations they can't get married to non christians. And Allaah knows best.
Why would anyone kill their parents simply because they want to convert to Christianity? What makes 17 year-old-girl whose father was "very angry" for her trying to leave Islam to act this way towards her parents?

Since its okay to assume that it was because of the boy who wanted her to turn to Christianity why this tragedy happened, I dont see why what Barney posted was deleted. What if she killed her mother and tried to kill her father because of how they wanted to apply Islamic Law and she felt really threathened? Why cannot we explore that possiblity aswell?
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vpb
05-28-2007, 03:37 PM
Since its okay to assume that it was because of the boy who wanted her to turn to Christianity why this tragedy happened, I dont see why what Barney posted was deleted. What if she killed her mother and tried to kill her father because of how they wanted to apply Islamic Law and she felt really threathened? Why cannot we explore that possiblity aswell?
can't she run away and tell the police????? when somebody tries to rob a bank, the employees do not respond with shooting back, but they turn on the alarm, to call the police. If they were going to kill her, how come she had time to take the knife, and go and stabb both? didn't she have time to run out of the house and call the police? the point here is that she didn't want to choose that option, but that's what Shaitan wanted , to choose the bad option.
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- Qatada -
05-28-2007, 03:44 PM
Originally Posted by Suomipoika
Just because there isnt Islamic State that is required to apply Islamic Law, doesnt really prevent people from trying to apply Islamic Law.

Why would anyone kill their parents simply because they want to convert to Christianity? What makes 17 year-old-girl whose father was "very angry" for her trying to leave Islam to act this way towards her parents?

Since its okay to assume that it was because of the boy who wanted her to turn to Christianity why this tragedy happened, I dont see why what Barney posted was deleted. What if she killed her mother and tried to kill her father because of how they wanted to apply Islamic Law and she felt really threathened? Why cannot we explore that possiblity aswell?

Well thats a problem on their part, since no-one except the holders of the law apply it. Yes, anyone can argue that a person can take the law into their own hands, but that doesn't mean it's right. No matter what form of government we're talking about.

Someone can see a thief, yet there still not allowed to shoot him, yet the cops are allowed to. Why? Because the holders of the law can only apply the law in them situations, and if someone else pretends to be a cop - well they can't since they don't hold that position of authority.


Infact, if we were to look at barneys post - we would see that he said something totally amazing, infact he said it as if he knew what he was talking about. Almost as if he was a scholar or person who has total knowledge on the religion. Guess what he said?


Originally Posted by barney
If she had converted she would have had 3 days to change her mind before her parents had a duty to kill her.

There's so much mistakes in that statement;


1)
He's claiming the parents have to kill her. - No they don't.

2) She's got 3 days to become muslim again. Why? If they're living in australia?

3) It's their duty? No it's not, it isn't the family members duty at all. Rather it's the Islamic Judges duty to help her to clear her misunderstandings, clear the misconceptions she may have etc.


So if he was so knowledgable and so wise, why is he making such a statement? Infact, why is he acting like he's some form of authority to even bring forth 'evidences' if he doesn't even understand their contexts or even the basics!?


Do you think it's right to let someone continue making others believe that what he's saying is true? Would you let me be a spokesperson for a government when i don't even belong to that country, yet alone be a leader of it?


I think you understand what i mean now. And Allaah knows best.



Regards.
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KAding
05-28-2007, 03:53 PM
We don't know the circumstances, so lets not speculate too much. All we do know is that killing her mother was wrong, regardless of the circumstances.
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vpb
05-28-2007, 03:54 PM
Muslim1: Salam alaikum

Muslim2: Walaikum salam

Muslim1: Akhi, there's a lecture on Aqeedah.

Muslim2: Alhamdulilah, where?

Muslim1: At the mosque.

Muslim2: Who's giving the lecture?

Muslim1: A christian pastor.

Muslim2: What topic will he discuss?

Muslim1: Well, he will discuss in detail the tawheed of Allah swt.

Muslim2: MashaAllah, I'm coming inshaAllah. I can't miss it.

Muslim1: Salam alaikum.

Muslim2: Walaikum salam.
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muzna
05-28-2007, 04:06 PM
yeah..she seems to have been passionately blinded by her love for this guy and her parents were standing in her way of being with him..people do crazy things sometimes..
Allah knows best..
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Umar001
05-28-2007, 04:11 PM
Not to discredit her Christian beliefs but, I mean, killing your parents? A Christian? What happend to the Christians who believe in turning the other cheek, round here they are turning into a rare people.

Would be cool to interview the girl.
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vpb
05-28-2007, 04:18 PM

Would be cool to interview the girl.
are you crazy? :p do you wanna get stabbed:p
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- Qatada -
05-28-2007, 04:27 PM
:salamext:


Nah, i think that she's gna reflect over it more deeply now.. especially when you're alone, if she's in prison or anything like that. I think that the love just blinded her.. may Allaah guide her and us all to the correct way, forever.
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Suomipoika
05-28-2007, 04:28 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Well thats a problem on their part, since no-one except the holders of the law apply it. Yes, anyone can argue that a person can take the law into their own hands, but that doesn't mean it's right. No matter what form of government we're talking about.

Someone can see a thief, yet there still not allowed to shoot him, yet the cops are allowed to. Why? Because the holders of the law can only apply the law in them situations, and if someone else pretends to be a cop - well they can't since they don't hold that position of authority.

Infact, if we were to look at barneys post - we would see that he said something totally amazing, infact he said it as if he knew what he was talking about. Almost as if he was a scholar or person who has total knowledge on the religion. Guess what he said?





There's so much mistakes in that statement;


1)
He's claiming the parents have to kill her. - No they don't.

2) She's got 3 days to become muslim again. Why? If they're living in australia?

3) It's their duty? No it's not, it isn't the family members duty at all. Rather it's the Islamic Judges duty to help her to clear her misunderstandings, clear the misconceptions she may have etc.
I cant really argue against that, I simply dont know Islam enough to know what parent should or should not do in regards to their children, nor how and when to apply Islamic Law. It does however leave me with rather uncomfortable question, what would happen to her if she was living in proper Islamic State and refused to change her views and wanted to become Christian.

So if he was so knowledgable and so wise, why is he making such a statement? Infact, why is he acting like he's some form of authority to even bring forth 'evidences' if he doesn't even understand their contexts or even the basics!?


Do you think it's right to let someone continue making others believe that what he's saying is true? Would you let me be a spokesperson for a government when i don't even belong to that country, yet alone be a leader of it?


I think you understand what i mean now. And Allaah knows best.



Regards.
But thats how the arguements are made in these forums.

Just look any other thread, they are filled with articles from "nutjob-dot-com" by people who hate USA, Israel and everything from West from the bottom of their little hearts, yet they speak like they know who rule these countries behind the secret closets and how these countries are doing this and that for oil and imperialism. Page after page of utter garbage and they are given the right to make people think what they say is true.
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Umar001
05-28-2007, 04:31 PM
Originally Posted by vpb
are you crazy? :p do you wanna get stabbed:p
I feel sorry for her, but I mean I'd be in a tank, not face to face.

But I mean, if it was a conversion thing, I mean, then what would drive her to kill her parents. I mean as a Christian out of all religions.
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vpb
05-28-2007, 04:32 PM
Alhamdulilah,

now we can see why Allah swt forbidded dating. You see where dating brought this girl to, ending up killing her parent. and what fi sabililah said, love blinded her.
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vpb
05-28-2007, 04:33 PM
I feel sorry for her, but I mean I'd be in a tank, not face to face.
no, cuz then you'd be called a terrorist. It's dangerous for a muslim holding any weapon or being in any military vehicle :p
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muzna
05-28-2007, 04:38 PM
oh..when he said tank..i thought he meant something like a fish tank..not a vehicle
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Suomipoika
05-28-2007, 04:38 PM
Originally Posted by vpb
Alhamdulilah,

now we can see why Allah swt forbidded dating. You see where dating brought this girl to, ending up killing her parent. and what fi sabililah said, love blinded her.
Maybe her parents should have just let her convert to Christianity instead of being "very angry" about it. I think Islam blinded her parents so much that they wanted their child forcibly follow it.
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- Qatada -
05-28-2007, 04:39 PM
Originally Posted by Suomipoika
I cant really argue against that, I simply dont know Islam enough to know what parent should or should not do in regards to their children, nor how and when to apply Islamic Law. It does however leave me with rather uncomfortable question, what would happen to her if she was living in proper Islamic State and refused to change her views and wanted to become Christian.

That's not the question, infact if we were to use that theory - she wouldn't even be dating with a non muslim guy within an Islamic State. She'd be brought up well, get a good education, have modesty, respect for the elders, and love for the young, if we were to use the theory of 'what if' - then the whole issue wouldn't take place, infact this whole article wouldn't have been written.


Anyway if you want to read the rules regarding apostasy, i welcome you to check the following link:

Apostasy and the Freedom of Religion
http://www.islamonline.net/English/c...rticle01.shtml



But thats how the arguements are made in these forums.

Just look any other thread, they are filled with articles from "nutjob-dot-com" by people who hate USA, Israel and everything from West from the bottom of their little hearts, yet they speak like they know who rule these countries behind the secret closets and how these countries are doing this and that for oil and imperialism. Page after page of utter garbage and they are given the right to make people think what they say is true.

Am i responsible for that? Infact the media does more of a 'good job' of that to spoon feed the people to think that Islaam is evil, so the public follows them in that without wanting to look at the true teachings.


Did you know that in Islaam the women, children, seniors, those who worship in monasteries etc. can't be killed in war? I'm sure the media never taught that about Islaam, but since the 'media knows better' - they can portray it in any way they want? I'm sure you agree that no-one should do that.

Infact, some people are influenced by the media soo much that they said in this thread that they never felt sad for the parents (but i deleted that so it doesn't cause more controversy) - why is that? I'm sure if a christian parent was killed, it was because the child was 'taught to be a fanatic muslim and influenced'? When in reality we are supposed to respect and treat our parents with care, even if they're not muslim!


I think you'll notice it's done by one side mainly (the media), some of the common people follow them in that, and some muslims get defensive and may argue back without clearing up the misconceptions.




Regards.
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muzna
05-28-2007, 04:41 PM
well..muslim's believe that those who dont believe in Allah and follow the sirat-al-mustakeen (the straight path) will end up in hell..so you cant blame the parents for being unhappy at the daughter's choice of leaving the religion.
anyway..regardless of the religion in question, any parent would be distressed if his child wanted to embrace another religion for a guy and not for the sake of faith itself.
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England
05-28-2007, 04:42 PM
Originally Posted by vpb
Alhamdulilah,

now we can see why Allah swt forbidded dating. You see where dating brought this girl to, ending up killing her parent. and what fi sabililah said, love blinded her.
Don't be friggin stupid :rollseyes
I reckon she did it because she feared for her life. To me this seems to be the norm in the middle east.
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muzna
05-28-2007, 04:48 PM
she was scared her parents would kill her? what fear exactly?
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- Qatada -
05-28-2007, 04:49 PM
Originally Posted by England
Don't be friggin stupid :rollseyes
I reckon she did it because she feared for her life. To me this seems to be the norm in the middle east.

lol the praise is for Allaah it's not part of islaam. :)
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barney
05-28-2007, 04:49 PM
http://www.irfi.org/articles/article..._in_the_is.htm

So are we saying that there is no policy of punishing apostates?
The Thousands of words linked to apostacy, I wont bother relisting , as i'm sure all muslims are aware of them anyway.

There is no compulsion in religion. You can leave Islam any time you like and Muslims will be sad to see you go but will wish you the very best.

Is that the consensus of opinion?
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ozzy249
05-28-2007, 04:52 PM
Originally Posted by England
Don't be friggin stupid :rollseyes
I reckon she did it because she feared for her life. To me this seems to be the norm in the middle east.
Typical Kaffir comment. Kaffir defend other Kaffir over everything whether it be murder or any other hideous crime.
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- Qatada -
05-28-2007, 04:53 PM
In an Islamic State, the person abides by the laws of the State - the same way one should in any state. If they disagree and don't want to practise Islaam, then they can move away to another state without any threat.
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- Qatada -
05-28-2007, 04:55 PM
Also, i'm quite sad how you all want to divert from the topic to make the parents seem evil. But anyway, the justice will be settled on the Day of Judgement by Allaah, who is the All-Just.


I'll quote this article on apostasy by brother Ansar, and then i'll let the thread go back on topic. There are many other threads on apostasy in the forum already:



EDIT: This post has been moved to the beginning of the thread.

:sl:
In order to understand this issue, we need to examine the Islamic law on apostasy. Since religion is looked on as a personal affair in western society, the notion of state intervention in one's personal choice would naturally seem excessive. However, from the Islamic perspective, a number of points must be observed with regard to apostasy:
1. Islam has never compelled anyone to accept the religion. Anyone who becomes a Muslim does so purely through objective study of the religion. As Allah has informed us in the Qur'an:

2:256 There is no compulsion in religion.
10:99 So would you (O Muhammad) then compel people to become believers?


Likewise, Islam encourages its followers to reflect and contemplate upon the universe around us and to ponder over the beauty of the Qur'anic message:

47:24 Do they not ponder over the Qur'an or are their hearts locked up?

51:20-21. And on earth are signs for those endowed with inner-certainty; and [likewise there are signs] in yourselves, do you not observe?

29:20 Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things.


Thus, Islam requires that one's faith be constructed upon logical investigation and study of the universe in which we live. Through logical contemplation, one realizes the supreme authority of the Creator and the veracity of Muhammad's (saws) claim to prophethood. Thus we find that, in the history of Islam, no knowledgeable Muslim has ever left Islam. The only cases we find of former Muslims are people who were never practicing Muslims in the first place, nor did they ever have a good understanding of Islam. Yet on the other hand, the list of educated converts to Islam is immense, and it includes educated leaders such as priests, rabbis and atheists.

2. Those who have left Islam have historically fallen under three categories: those who left having never properly understood the religion often due to social circumstances, those who faked a conversion into Islam in order to undermine the Islamic community from within, and those who left to support opposing forces in battle against the Muslims. Because of the first category, Islam requires that the person who has chosen to forsake the religion be consulted with in order that his doubts may be clarified to him if there is any specific issue of confusion, or so that he may learn the proper Islamic teachings that he may otherwise have not been exposed to. As for the second and third category, this was the original reason behind the Prophet's statement on apostasy. The Qur'an records (3:72) that the Jews of Madinah decided to initiate the practice of pretending to accept Islam and then publicly declare their rejection of it, so as to destroy the confidence of the newly-converted Muslims. Thus, the Prophet Muhammad pbuh ruled that a punishment should be announced so that those who decide to accept Islam do so because of a firm conviction not in order to harm the Muslim community from within.

3. Coming to the actual law of apostasy, the Prophet Muhammad pbuh did say, in the above historical context, "Whoever replaces his religion, execute him" (Bukhari, Abu Dawud) but how exactly do we understand this statement and does it conflict with the principles of freedom? The Prophet Muhammad pbuh himself clarified this statement in another hadith narrated in Sahih Muslim where he mentioned that the one who was to be fought against was the one who "abandons his religion and the Muslim community". It should be noted that every country has maintained punishments, including execution, for treason and rebellion against the state (See Mozley and Whitley's Law Dictionary, under "Treason and Treason Felony," pp. 368-369). Islam is not just a set of beliefs, it is a complete system of life which includes a Muslim's allegiance to the Islamic state. Thus, a rejection against that would be akin to treason. Rebellion against God is more serious than rebellion against one's country. However, one who personally abandons the faith and leaves the country would not be hunted down and assassinated, nor would one who remains inside the state conforming to outward laws be tracked down and executed. The notion of establishing inquisition courts to determine peoples' faith, as done in the Spanish Inquisition, is something contrary to Islamic law. As illustrated by the historical context in which it was mandated, the death penalty is mainly for those who collaborate with enemy forces in order to aid them in their attacks against the Islamic state or for those who seek to promote civil unrest and rebellion from within the Islamic state. When someone publicly announces their rejection of Islam within an Islamic state it is basically a challenge to the Islamic government, since such an individual can keep it to themselves like the personal affair it is made out to be.

4. From Islamic history, we can gain a better understanding of how this law has been implemented. Although the Prophet Muhammad pbuh threatened the death penalty in response to the attempts against the Muslim community, no such executions took place in his time (Imam Shawkani, Nayl Al-Awtar, vol. 7, p. 192) even though there is a report that a Bedouin renounced Islam and left Madinah unharmed in his time (Fath Al-Bari vol. 4, p.77 and vol. 13 p. 170; Sahih Muslim biSharh An-Nawawi, vol. 9, p. 391). Thus, we find that context plays an important role in determining how to deal with apostates. The case of one who enlists nations to fight against the Islamic state is more serious, for example. That is why the scholars of the Hanafi school of thought felt that the punishment only applies to the male apostate and not the female apostate because the latter is unable to wage war against the Islamic state. If someone simply has some doubts concerning Islam, then those doubts can be clarified.
So an Islamic state is certainly justified in punishing those who betray the state, committing treason and support enemy forces. As for anyone else, if they do not publicly declare their rejection of Islam, the state has no interest in pursuing them; if their case does become public, however, then they should be reasoned with and educated concerning the religion so that they have the opportunity to learn the concepts they may not have understood properly and they can be encouraged to repent.

From another of my posts:
Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
Originally Posted by blunderbus
If a predominantly Christian country were going to execute a former Christian who converted to another religion (in this hypothetical case, Islam) would you be ok with that?
As a side note, this has already happened, examples include the spanish inquisition. But on to your question...

First of all, the law on apostasy has been explained here and here. It is commonly taken out of context, but the point to note is that the Prophet Muhammad (saws) clarified that the one to be punished was the one who rebelled against the community. This is quite similar to state laws on treason. A state is justified in taking action against those who pose a significant threat. But the idea of setting up an inquisition to examine the beliefs of the people is against Islamic teachings, so someone who personally changes their religious convictions will be insignificant in the eyes of the state. It is the one who publically announces his rebellion, stirring civil unrest, who must be opposed. While the Christian inquisitions were bent on examining (through the use of torture) the beliefs of those Muslims and Jews who outwardly professed conversion to Christianity, in an Islamic state, someone who even outwardly professes acceptane of Islam is left alone because they cause no harm to society, and the Islamic state is only interested in the security of its society.

If someone poses a threat to a state's security, then they are justified in taking action against them. But if someone changes their personal religious views, then it is quite extreme for the state to attempt to pry into the hearts of its citizens to determine their faith and punish them.
:w:

_______

Material from this post has been added to this article:
http://www.load-islam.com/artical_de...conceptions#28

Reply

islamirama
05-28-2007, 04:59 PM
Originally Posted by Rahmah
Girl kills mom in religious row
24/05/2007

Sydney - A teenage girl who wanted to convert from Islam to Christianity stabbed her parents after blindfolding them on the pretext of presenting surprise gifts, an Australian court heard on Thursday.

The girl's mother died in the attack - during which 17-year-old Kaihana Tahseen Hussain shouted "Die both of you now" - her father told Southport Magistrates Court.

Bangladesh-born Muhammad Hussain, 49, said that after he and his wife were blindfolded in their bedroom, he felt something penetrate his stomach, followed by the warm sensation of blood flowing from the wound.

"Then she told me: 'This is your surprise,'" he said.

Hussain said the attack came two days after his wife and daughter had returned from a trip to Bangladesh and during the Islamic observance of Ramadan, the national AAP news agency reported.

He told the court he heard his wife say: "Tahseen has stabbed me. She was screaming: 'I'm dying' in Bengali."

The girl twice shouted "Die both of you now" - once in English and a second time in Bengali, Hussain said.

"In response, I told her: 'What mistake we have done for us to die?'"

Disorientated and losing blood, Hussain said he went for help outside, struggling in the process with his daughter as he went to open the front door.

Under cross-examination by defence lawyer Dennis Lynch, Hussain said he was "very angry" his daughter planned to convert from Islam to Christianity and disapproved of her relationship with an Australian university student.

The teenager frequently broke down in tears while her father gave evidence.

The hearing to decide whether she should face trial will resume in October.

Source



I think this shows how important it is to raise our children up with a fear of Allah from a young age.

I've read this on other forum and 10 pages of comments on there as well, the comments on there were much better than what i've seen here.

The girl was a maniac who killed her parents savagely for sake of her boyfriend. You are really stupid if you think she killed them "becuase they would kill her", she lived in australia and knew well what she could or could not do and how safe she was. She also had the opportunity to run away with the boyfriend. But she instead decideds to kill her own parents and probably wanted to take over their live savings and stuff and marry the boy friend and live in that house. This is just one sick crazy girl that needs to be locked up for life.
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Suomipoika
05-28-2007, 05:01 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Am i responsible for that?
What am I supposed to say here really? You are a mod that deleted a post and asked a question seemingly in defence of that action whether or not its right to let someone make others believe what he says is true.

Originally Posted by muzna
she was scared her parents would kill her? what fear exactly?
In truth there really isnt enough information, whether she was blinded over love or if she was afraid of something. Its just guessing, from everyone.
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- Qatada -
05-28-2007, 05:04 PM
Suomipoika, you know that your statement was nothing about the deleted posts.

Look at the quote which i placed the statement in.


And the argument for those who say she was 'scared' - i'm sure she wouldn't be, since they sent her to uni, she started a relationship with a guy, if she had enough 'freedom' to be able to do that, i'm sure it was easy for her to simply run away.
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barney
05-28-2007, 05:08 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
England, stop acting like you know it all. You're far from it, and so is barney. You know what i said to him when i deleted his post? I said an Islamic State is required to apply Islamic law, and there is no Islamic State today as it's been Prophecised.

If you really want to act like you're some next level hero who 'knows it all', then give it up, cuz you're not doing a good job of it here.



Regards.
Yup , he did PM me that.

Well Afganistan set itself up as a islamic state, somalia tried and for a short while was, and Iraq is probably going to be the next.

You dont have to have a "Islamic State" for "Islamic Law" to occour. Sure you could argue that it's not "really Islamic Law", because some prophecy hasnt happened (yet). thats not going to bring back the heads of all the dead apostates.

Basically Apostacy and its penaltyis something that "Moderate" Muslims are very very embarrassed about. It's easier to just ignore it or pass it off as something theoretical. It's happening today. Debate it and deal with it.
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- Qatada -
05-28-2007, 05:16 PM
Originally Posted by barney
Yup , he did PM me that.

Well Afganistan set itself up as a islamic state, somalia tried and for a short while was, and Iraq is probably going to be the next.

You dont have to have a "Islamic State" for "Islamic Law" to occour. Sure you could argue that it's not "really Islamic Law", because some prophecy hasnt happened (yet). thats not going to bring back the heads of all the dead apostates.

Basically Apostacy and its penaltyis something that "Moderate" Muslims are very very embarrassed about. It's easier to just ignore it or pass it off as something theoretical. It's happening today. Debate it and deal with it.

Those who follow the Qur'an and Sunnah according to the understanding of the Prophet and his companions, they are the moderate ones:
Abû Hurayrah relates that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said “This religion is easy. No one becomes harsh and strict in the religion without it overwhelming him. So fulfill your duties as best you can and rejoice. Rely upon the efforts of the morning and the evening and a little at night and you will reach your goal.” [Sahîh al-Bukharî]
Anyone who opposes them are infact the extreme ones since they are leaning towards another extreme which doesn't have any basis in Islaam.


I've also stated:

Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
In an Islamic State, the person abides by the laws of the State - the same way one should in any state. If they disagree and don't want to practise Islaam, then they can move away to another state without any threat.

A person doesn't need to be killed if they hide their apostasy, so they don't need to worry if they conceal it - unlike the US where you can be killed even if you deny the fact that you commited treason - and get killed for it. However, in the hereafter there is a great punishment for the disbelievers, and a great reward for the believers. And no-one will be dealt with unjustly.

And (remember) when your Lord proclaimed: "If you give thanks (by accepting Faith and worshipping none but Allâh), I will give you more (of My Blessings), but if you are thankless (i.e. disbelievers), verily! My Punishment is indeed severe." [Qur'an 14: 7]

Now back to the topic insha Allaah. Any posts about apostasy will be deleted after this.
Reply

England
05-28-2007, 05:23 PM
Originally Posted by ozzy249
Typical Kaffir comment. Kaffir defend other Kaffir over everything whether it be murder or any other hideous crime.
And the same goes the other way round. I'm just not going to judge on it as like I said, she knows her parents more than I. I've heard so many similar stories like it. It's not for us to judge... :)
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vpb
05-28-2007, 05:23 PM
Typical Kaffir comment. Kaffir defend other Kaffir over everything whether it be murder or any other hideous crime.
true. very true,
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- Qatada -
05-28-2007, 05:27 PM
Remember that not all disbelievers are harsh against the believers though :)


Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.

Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong.


[Qur'an 60: 8-9]
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England
05-28-2007, 05:38 PM
No it wasn't :) It just shows to what extent a muslim would go to keep his daughter within the faith and this, even in our own continent, Europe. Even In England. That is why I won't judge this incident. Let "Allah" do it :rollseyes
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../nmuslim21.xml
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vpb
05-28-2007, 05:39 PM
just bc it says Pakistani does it mean he has to be a muslim? or what he does is defenitily in accordance with Islamic teachings?? and Telegraph can't wait to find someone from pakistan or saudi arabia or these countries, imiddiately to put the "muslim" sticker on them.
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- Qatada -
05-28-2007, 05:40 PM
Thanks, and the guy really did an islamic thing by commiting suicide right? :)


Trust me i can name maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaany things which are done by 'non muslims' and then say that everyone non muslim is like that. But the praise is for Allaah i'm not that low.



Regards.
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Rafeeq
05-28-2007, 05:42 PM
this is tregic story.
Ina Lillahe Wa Ina Elehe Rajeoon
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England
05-28-2007, 05:42 PM
Originally Posted by vpb
just bc it says Pakistani does it mean he has to be a muslim? or what he does is defenitily in accordance with Islamic teachings?? and Telegraph can't wait to find someone from pakistan or saudi arabia or these countries, imiddiately to put the "muslim" sticker on them.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../narson102.xml

It shows that he was in fact muslim.
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vpb
05-28-2007, 05:46 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../narson102.xml

It shows that he was in fact muslim.
who says so? Telegraph is good enough to define if someone's a muslim???????? dude are you ignorant or you have lost your bicycle? you don't judge Islam based on some people just bc they say "i'm a muslim". Should I not buy a product of Microsoft just bc one of their developers commited a crime in his personal life?
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Suomipoika
05-28-2007, 05:48 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Suomipoika, you know that your statement was nothing about the deleted posts.

Look at the quote which i placed the statement in.
There are dozens of posts that are made in the same manner than what barney posted, yet they are not deleted. This is what you said which I was originally replying, because I thought that was said in defense of deleting barneys post:

Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
So if he was so knowledgable and so wise, why is he making such a statement? Infact, why is he acting like he's some form of authority to even bring forth 'evidences' if he doesn't even understand their contexts or even the basics!?


Do you think it's right to let someone continue making others believe that what he's saying is true? Would you let me be a spokesperson for a government when i don't even belong to that country, yet alone be a leader of it?
Me:

Originally Posted by Suomipoika
But thats how the arguements are made in these forums.

Just look any other thread, they are filled with articles from "nutjob-dot-com" by people who hate USA, Israel and everything from West from the bottom of their little hearts, yet they speak like they know who rule these countries behind the secret closets and how these countries are doing this and that for oil and imperialism. Page after page of utter garbage and they are given the right to make people think what they say is true.
You, I left the bits about media away, and really answered to the first question:

Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Am i responsible for that? Infact the media does more of a 'good job' of that to spoon feed the people to think that Islaam is evil, so the public follows them in that without wanting to look at the true teachings.


Did you know that in Islaam the women, children, seniors, those who worship in monasteries etc. can't be killed in war? I'm sure the media never taught that about Islaam, but since the 'media knows better' - they can portray it in any way they want? I'm sure you agree that no-one should do that.

Infact, some people are influenced by the media soo much that they said in this thread that they never felt sad for the parents (but i deleted that so it doesn't cause more controversy) - why is that? I'm sure if a christian parent was killed, it was because the child was 'taught to be a fanatic muslim and influenced'? When in reality we are supposed to respect and treat our parents with care, even if they're not muslim!


I think you'll notice it's done by one side mainly (the media), some of the common people follow them in that, and some muslims get defensive and may argue back without clearing up the misconceptions.
Me:

Originally Posted by Suomipoika
What am I supposed to say here really? You are a mod that deleted a post and asked a question seemingly in defence of that action whether or not its right to let someone make others believe what he says is true.
If there was a misunderstanding, I apologize.
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- Qatada -
05-28-2007, 05:50 PM
Okay, i understand Suomipoika. Thanks for the clarification. :) I guess i don't delete alot of the posts here since i don't always be in this World Affairs section.



Regards.
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England
05-28-2007, 05:51 PM
Originally Posted by vpb
who says so? Telegraph is good enough to define if someone's a muslim???????? dude are you ignorant or you have lost your bicycle? you don't judge Islam based on some people just bc they say "i'm a muslim". Should I not buy a product of Microsoft just bc one of their developers commited a crime in his personal life?
Who said I judged Islam? It's not Islam that matters. It's the actions of its people that matter :) There are alot of people from the middle east that are so radical they would kill for their religion. In some cases, their own families. You know that it's true. Whether it's "Islamic" is irrelevant. As you lot have said over and over again, it's the culture.
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DaNgErOuS MiNdS
05-28-2007, 05:56 PM
Pure crazyness, can't believe people are actually trying to justify her action :raging:
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vpb
05-28-2007, 05:59 PM
Who said I judged Islam? It's not Islam that matters. It's the actions of its people that matter There are alot of people from the middle east that are so radical they would kill for their religion. In some cases, their own families. You know that it's true. Whether it's "Islamic" is irrelevant. As you lot have said over and over again, it's the culture.
I assume you lost your bicycle .
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England
05-28-2007, 06:03 PM
Originally Posted by DaNgErOuS MiNdS
Pure crazyness, can't believe people are actually trying to justify her action :raging:
Nobody is trying to justify anyone's actions. I'm following the example of what alot of people have done here in the past. I'm looking at it from different angles. What was her motive for doing so? Was it that she hated her mother/father? Was it because she "loved a boy?" I know many lovers but I can't recall any killing their mother/father. Was it that she knew her family so well that she knew that her life was in danger afterall there are alot of incidents where the daughter is stoned to death for converting in the mid-east? Basically there's not enough information in that article to judge anything. Therefore nobody is in the right to make judgement. Only "Allah" knows :playing:
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-28-2007, 06:09 PM
Na Audhubillah, she obviously had no respect for her parents. I hope she learns her lesson and rethinks what she has done. And for those who are saying they probably wanted to kill her daughter, they would have kicked her out or killed her as quickly as possible. Instead the daughter did. You can't go through life making assumptions. Sorry but it wont take you very far, unless of course you want to be one of the corrupt.
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Suomipoika
05-28-2007, 06:14 PM
Originally Posted by Jazzy
Na Audhubillah, she obviously had no respect for her parents. I hope she learns her lesson and rethinks what she has done. And for those who are saying they probably wanted to kill her daughter, they would have kicked her out or killed her as quickly as possible. Instead the daughter did. You can't go through life making assumptions. Sorry but it wont take you very far, unless of course you want to be one of the corrupt.
Kind of ironical that you make the assumption that she had no respect for her parents and learns her lesson when you really have no knowledge what the situation was, and why she acted the way she did.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-28-2007, 06:17 PM
Killing/trying to kill your parents means having respect for them? You find a less horrific way of dealing with the situation than attempting to finish off their life. If anything, its you guys making assumptions. Dont misinterpret my post, k thanx!
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- Qatada -
05-28-2007, 06:18 PM
To Suomipoika:

Agreed ^ so none of us need to make any assumptions right? Now that we've sorted that out, try to see who the first person was who made the first assumption on this thread.



Regards.
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Sami Zaatari
05-28-2007, 06:49 PM
lol the non muslims are so funny, and show themselves to be 2 faced hypocrites as usual, here you have a sick girl who wanted to become christian and she goes off and kills her parents like a savage, but the non muslims instead of just accepting it and condemning it they rather justify it and make excuses! oh yeah yeah they say nooo were not justifying it at all! sure your not, your all saying oh well we dont know her position, oh well maybe her parents were bad, oh well maybe her parents would kill her BLA BLA BLA more western hypocrisy.

if a muslim did this, not a single one of you non muslims would say oh well maybe the circumstances made him do that, you would be nagging and screaming evil muslim!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you wouldnt even care to look at the circumstances or anything, now when a non muslim does it they dont stop going on about ohhhhhhh maybe her circumstances made her do that! how laughable you non muslims are.
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Suomipoika
05-28-2007, 06:51 PM
Originally Posted by Jazzy
Killing/trying to kill your parents means having respect for them? You find a less horrific way of dealing with the situation than attempting to finish off their life. If anything, its you guys making assumptions. Dont misinterpret my post, k thanx!
Well, you are again assuming, that she actually had anyother way of dealing with the situation. What is in the article, is mostly/only fathers side of the story. Only confirmed thing out of her is weeping.

I dont actually wish to guess who is at fault, because we simply dont know. Lets be honest, people can be monsters, some of them daughters, some of them parents.

Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
To Suomipoika:

Agreed ^ so none of us need to make any assumptions right? Now that we've sorted that out, try to see who the first person was who made the first assumption on this thread.



Regards.
Profile certainly doesnt say muslim. If thats what you are after. :)
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barney
05-28-2007, 06:57 PM
Well, perhaps her increasingly christian veiwpoint made her do it? Always possible.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-28-2007, 06:58 PM
How am i assuming? Im making a statement according to the article, not her life!
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vpb
05-28-2007, 06:59 PM
guys why don't u close this thread, cuz i'm about to throw :p . and many people have already lost their bicycles here and showed their ignorance.
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barney
05-28-2007, 07:04 PM
Well,If they closed every thread that put up challenges the whole site would be locked. :)

Mayby just restrict membership to Muslims?
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Suomipoika
05-28-2007, 07:06 PM
Originally Posted by Jazzy
How am i assuming? Im making a statement according to the article, not her life!
You assumed that she had less horrific way of dealing with the situation, nothing in the article says she actually had.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-28-2007, 07:10 PM
I said she could have dealt with it in a less horrific way. I never said she DID have one. Like I said, dont misinterpret, its really cheap.
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vpb
05-28-2007, 07:10 PM
Well,If they closed every thread that put up challenges the whole site would be locked.

Mayby just restrict membership to Muslims?
otherwise people will get you fatwas ;D;D;D;D;D
Reply

Hawa
05-28-2007, 07:20 PM
Originally Posted by KAding
We don't know the circumstances, so lets not speculate too much. All we do know is that killing her mother was wrong, regardless of the circumstances.
Period.
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Suomipoika
05-28-2007, 07:27 PM
Originally Posted by Jazzy
I said she could have dealt with it in a less horrific way. I never said she DID have one. Like I said, dont misinterpret, its really cheap.
Whats the point of trying to deal with it less horrific way if there isnt one?Like you said, you never said she DID have one.

You also seem to assume that she didnt actually try to deal with it different ways, maybe she tried hundreds of things, and this was just the last desperate attempt.

We simply dont know, so lets not assume she could have dealt it with less horrific way. :)
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vpb
05-28-2007, 07:29 PM
Surah Al-Hujjurat (Private Appartments) 49:6:
O you who believe! if an evil-doer comes to you with a report, look carefully into it, lest you harm a people in ignorance, then be sorry for what you have done.
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Umar001
05-28-2007, 07:34 PM
I really am amazed at this thread, a girl killed her mom and so forth, and now we have a discussion about assumption, freedom of religion and so on.

There is reason to believe different views, I mean, she could have felt helpless, but then that would not explain her shouting of die to her parents, then again, she might have gone crazy due to the harrassment, or maybe her parents didnt bring her up properly, who knows?

I am sure there's better things we could discuss?
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Sami Zaatari
05-28-2007, 07:45 PM
if a muslim did it there would be no discussion on why it was done, just all out condemnation and no buts or ifs. :) hypocrisy
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chacha_jalebi
05-28-2007, 07:50 PM
the girl was obvious a mental case, because no matter what happens in your life or what you wan do, you dont blindfold people and trick them and stab them! especially your parents

and to all the people that are tryin to stir anti muslimness, go jump of a cliff:p :D lol naa lets be sensitive, regardless of faith a human being has died, and its tragic the way she died!!!
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snakelegs
05-28-2007, 09:14 PM
how horrible. this girl will have to live with this the rest of her life.
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England
05-28-2007, 09:22 PM
Originally Posted by Sami Zaatari
lol the non muslims are so funny, and show themselves to be 2 faced hypocrites as usual, here you have a sick girl who wanted to become christian and she goes off and kills her parents like a savage, but the non muslims instead of just accepting it and condemning it they rather justify it and make excuses! oh yeah yeah they say nooo were not justifying it at all! sure your not, your all saying oh well we dont know her position, oh well maybe her parents were bad, oh well maybe her parents would kill her BLA BLA BLA more western hypocrisy.

if a muslim did this, not a single one of you non muslims would say oh well maybe the circumstances made him do that, you would be nagging and screaming evil muslim!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you wouldnt even care to look at the circumstances or anything, now when a non muslim does it they dont stop going on about ohhhhhhh maybe her circumstances made her do that! how laughable you non muslims are.
Muslims in this forum do exactly the same. When we bring up the likes of the taliban and how they treated people or terror suspects that have PROVEN guilty muslims in here do exactly the same. "Oh it might be a set up" and "the media is full of lies, pure propoganda etc." Basically we too are looking at it from different perspectives. This article doesn't describe the situation she is in. The article doesn't tell us how angry her father actually was. Maybe she was wrong, maybe she was protecting herself. Like I said I've heard so many stories of converts being stoned, tortured, beaten to death by their parents for leaving Islam. Leave it for God to take care of.
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Sami Zaatari
05-28-2007, 09:53 PM
Originally Posted by England
Muslims in this forum do exactly the same. When we bring up the likes of the taliban and how they treated people or terror suspects that have PROVEN guilty muslims in here do exactly the same. "Oh it might be a set up" and "the media is full of lies, pure propoganda etc." Basically we too are looking at it from different perspectives. This article doesn't describe the situation she is in. The article doesn't tell us how angry her father actually was. Maybe she was wrong, maybe she was protecting herself. Like I said I've heard so many stories of converts being stoned, tortured, beaten to death by their parents for leaving Islam. Leave it for God to take care of.
oh plz put a sock it in, you really sicken me, and im not trying to be rude @ admins. keep your excuses and your looking at it from another prespective to yourself, because quite frankly i dont really care if you think she is justified, because i always knew u non muslims were pure 2 faced hypocrites, this just proves me right the way ur acting, im not suprised by it at all, your hatred for muslims is very deep you dont mind if they get killed, instead you try to say ohhh perhaps they did something, but when ur ppl get killed u dont allow the same criteria. but anyway, thanks, suicide bombings against israel are all good now, since as you say, the situation the palis are in causes them to react, hence they are justified according to your criteria, and so are the 7-7 bombers, hey im using ur criteria, if someone is hurt or is forced to do something they do it, thats what u say, hence stop whining about getting attacked from now on comprenday?

and also stop complaining about ur terrorist troops getting killed in iraq, because they have tortured, rape, and murdered innocent iraqis, hence iraqis are completly justified in blowing your troops to hell, hey im JUST USING UR CRITERIA, so admins plz dont mis-understand my points, im using this losers criteria against him thats all, which is that ppl are jusitifed to kill and attack if they are in a really really bad situation. thank u england, i never knew you could be so understanding!

:thumbs_up
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England
05-28-2007, 10:34 PM
Originally Posted by Sami Zaatari
oh plz put a sock it in, you really sicken me, and im not trying to be rude @ admins. keep your excuses and your looking at it from another prespective to yourself, because quite frankly i dont really care if you think she is justified, because i always knew u non muslims were pure 2 faced hypocrites, this just proves me right the way ur acting, im not suprised by it at all, your hatred for muslims is very deep you dont mind if they get killed, instead you try to say ohhh perhaps they did something, but when ur ppl get killed u dont allow the same criteria. but anyway, thanks, suicide bombings against israel are all good now, since as you say, the situation the palis are in causes them to react, hence they are justified according to your criteria, and so are the 7-7 bombers, hey im using ur criteria, if someone is hurt or is forced to do something they do it, thats what u say, hence stop whining about getting attacked from now on comprenday?

and also stop complaining about ur terrorist troops getting killed in iraq, because they have tortured, rape, and murdered innocent iraqis, hence iraqis are completly justified in blowing your troops to hell, hey im JUST USING UR CRITERIA, so admins plz dont mis-understand my points, im using this losers criteria against him thats all, which is that ppl are jusitifed to kill and attack if they are in a really really bad situation. thank u england, i never knew you could be so understanding!

:thumbs_up
Ah there we go! :) I'm glad you understand :thumbs_up But it's what you do anyway. That "criteria" has always been used under those issues :X
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Woodrow
05-28-2007, 10:39 PM
Originally Posted by England
Don't be friggin stupid :rollseyes
I reckon she did it because she feared for her life. To me this seems to be the norm in the middle east.
Oh, they moved Australia to the middle East.

Maybe you mean because the family was originaly from Pakistan, but Pakistan is not in the Mideast either. It is in South west Asia.
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NoName55
05-28-2007, 10:42 PM
Originally Posted by buriedaway_4536
Just trying to think of what she could have been thinking at the time.
I never can understand what could possibly enrage someone enough to make them kill someone else.

Sad story. :(
Lust can, whether it is for money or an illicit sexual affair
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England
05-28-2007, 10:43 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Oh, they moved Australia to the middle East.

Maybe you mean because the family was originaly from Pakistan, but Pakistan is not in the Mideast either. It is in South west Asia.
Pakistan is not much difference. That's corrupt aswell, what with all those terrorist training camps, radicalism etc.
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chacha_jalebi
05-28-2007, 10:53 PM
Originally Posted by England
Pakistan is not much difference. That's corrupt aswell, what with all those terrorist training camps, radicalism etc.
lol

how u no der camps there? u been to them init, u terrorist:p make me sick dirty bugger:D
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NoName55
05-28-2007, 11:06 PM
Originally Posted by chacha_jalebi
Originally Posted by England
Pakistan is not much difference. That's corrupt aswell, what with all those terrorist training camps, radicalism etc.
lol

how u no der camps there? u been to them init, u terrorist:p make me sick dirty bugger:D
^ I can't understand, for the life of me as to what purpose this type of people serve on this site! How are they beneficial to either the Muslims or the Ahl al-kitaab?
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FatimaAsSideqah
05-28-2007, 11:11 PM
:sl:

Astragfulillah! So such sad tragic! :cry:

May Allah Ta'ala guide this girl!

:w:
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chacha_jalebi
05-28-2007, 11:30 PM
Originally Posted by NoName55
^ I can't understand, for the life of me as to what purpose this type of people serve on this site! How are they beneficial to either the Muslims or the Ahl al-kitaab?
lol who u talkin bout?

bro i think everyone serves a purpose here, muslim or not:D
so stop jumpin 2 conclusions now
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NoName55
05-28-2007, 11:43 PM
lol who u talkin bout?
My fault! I mistook you for some one else, to whom it would have been obvious from the quote who "i wuz talkin bout"
everyone serves a purpose here
The only purpose I can see him serve is to insult Muslims and Islam in every post.
so stop jumpin 2 conclusions now
forgive me o wise one! (I shan't, ever again, make the mistake of addressing you directly)`

Had I any sense I would have learned my lesson fro your posts in alcohol thread
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chacha_jalebi
05-28-2007, 11:52 PM
^ erm ok, u bein sarcastic bro, cos i dint get ya

na leave englandy alone lol, he jus a bnp wannabe

wot alchohol post? wise one eh? o chank u :shade:

if ya was so againist d post, why rep me for it:D

neway hope u feel betta now after ur little tantrum:D

now bak on topic....

the girl was wrong
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Allah-creation
05-29-2007, 12:02 AM
why would her parents allow their only daughter to leave islam and end up in hell?!?!?!? of course they will try to save her, she is their daughter. i mean come on think logic. Islam is the true religion and if i had a daughter who wants to convert to a different religion i would definitely try to stop her becuase i care about her and love her.
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NoName55
05-29-2007, 12:16 AM
:sl:
if ya was so againist d post, why rep me for it
Not against your post, rep was for what looked like standing up against a Nazi. And I back anyone who is anti-Nazi.

Anyhow the matter of his presence, here, has been resolved by Br. woodrow.
Now I understand better why things are the way they are.

Kindly disregard my las post addressed to you as it does not apply anymore due to the misunderstandings it was based upon.
:w:
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Umu 'Isa
05-29-2007, 01:02 AM
There really is no justification for the girls actions. She killed her own mother, and attempted to kill her own father. So what if they were angry at her for wanting to become a christian? She wanted to do it for her christian boyfriend so they could get married and live happily ever after.

Her parents were trying to protect her, but the good ol' western ways had gotten to her head so much so that she had to go kill her parents to get her own way

That shows nothing more than a lunatic in need of psychiatric care.

It's really funny how people are trying to justify her actions and make the parents seem crazy. The parents could of tied her up, blind folded her and stabbed her just so she wouldn't go behind their backs convert to christianity and marry this boy. But no, that didn't happen. It was the other way 'round.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
05-29-2007, 01:44 AM
^^Yea!
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Abdul-Raouf
05-29-2007, 02:51 AM
"Say to the believing, men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty. O you believers! Turn you all together towards Allah that you may attain success" (24:30-31)

If she had obeyed ALLAH ..........this horrible incident wouldn have happend......


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islamirama
11-06-2016, 05:43 PM
Browsing through old threads, i came across this one. I was curious to see what was the outcome although not surprised as to what will happen.

So this psycho girl stabs both her parents, killing her mother in cold blood and because she supposedly wanted to convert to Islam and they won't let her. When in fact she had a kuffar boyfriend, which is haram, and she wanted to live that kuffar lifestyle for herself as well. As can be expected, her kuffar defense team ran with plan of blaming the father for killing the mother and stabbing himself and the kuffar jury and the kuffar system freed her of all charges and lets her walk free. smh

Inshallah the mother is shaheed and this kuffar will burn in hell forever with her kuffar boyfriend who probably already dumped her ugly behind and moved onto the next girl.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...31e-1478453892
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kritikvernunft
11-06-2016, 06:08 PM
Prosecutor Michael Byrne, SC, said the evidence pointed to Ms Hussain as the killer.

Barrister Dennis Lynch, for Ms Hussain, said the only real evidence against his client was from her father and if the jury did not believe him they had to acquit.
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islamirama
11-06-2016, 07:58 PM
Originally Posted by kritikvernunft
Prosecutor Michael Byrne, SC, said the evidence pointed to Ms Hussain as the killer.

Barrister Dennis Lynch, for Ms Hussain, said the only real evidence against his client was from her father and if the jury did not believe him they had to acquit.
What else do you expect the prosecutor to say, the girl is guilty? As for the evidence, do you honestly think these kuffars don't mess with the evidence? how innocents sitting in jails because of planted "evidence"?

It comes down to her word against and the "evidence" that can be tainted and changed to support one party over the other. If the parents were "moderate" Muslims and the girl wanted to "join" the isis then the evidence should change to make the parents innocent and her guilty, all depends on whatever side kuffars want to support...
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kritikvernunft
11-06-2016, 11:41 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
What else do you expect the prosecutor to say, the girl is guilty?
The prosecutor clearly says that he believes that the girl is guilty, but Ms Hussain's lawyer successfully argued that the prosecutor cannot prove this.

Furthermore, pretty much everybody believes that Ms Hussain is guilty. It does not matter, however. In the case of her lawyer, it is his obligation to argue that his client, the defendant, Ms. Hussain is not guilty, even if he also believes that she is. Furthermore, the defendant, Ms. Hussain, must always be given the opportunity to be represented by a lawyer. If she cannot afford one, she will get one for free.

The case of a daughter trying to kill or killing both her parents, is too unusual. They don't know what to do with it. So, the result is understandable.
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Search
11-07-2016, 12:00 AM
:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

:sl: (Peace be upon you)


Originally Posted by kritikvernunft
The prosecutor clearly says that he believes that the girl is guilty, but Ms Hussain's lawyer successfully argued that the prosecutor cannot prove this.

Furthermore, pretty much everybody believes that Ms Hussain is guilty. It does not matter, however. In the case of her lawyer, it is his obligation to argue that his client, the defendant, Ms. Hussain is not guilty, even if he also believes that she is. Furthermore, the defendant, Ms. Hussain, must always be given the opportunity to be represented by a lawyer. If she cannot afford one, she will get one for free.

The case of a daughter trying to kill or killing both her parents, is too unusual. They don't know what to do with it. So, the result is understandable.
I don't think that's the reason; if the lawyer was smart, and I'm assuming the girl's lawyer was, she would play on the prejudices of the jury against Islam and also invite a soft corner for her wanting to convert to Christianity. For example, O.J. Simpson's lawyer successfully preyed on the prejudices and sentiments of almost all-minority race jury, which comprised then of 9 black jurors and 2 Hispanics and with the 1 white person. I think many people think that lawyering is about justice; it rarely is. It's about actually who's the better lawyer and how to spin the facts to your benefit.

Spiritually, however, we know that despite the jury's verdict, God knows all the facts; and there is no escape from that fact on Judgment Day because justice not served here does not mean justice denied in the hereafter - actually, quite the opposite.

:wa: (And peace be upon you)
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