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HBot 5000
05-28-2007, 08:59 AM
http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol...cle1839477.ece

Yes, it’s a radical new concept ... the boneshaker



Jeremy Clarkson
You might fondly imagine that the drive outside my house is full to overflowing with all the latest cars, their tanks brimmed with fuel and the insurance paid. And you’d be right.

This week it looks like the long-term car park at Heathrow out there. Under the pergola is an Audi R8 that I’d very much like to drive, but I can’t get it round my Lambo without driving over the herb garden. And I can’t move the Lambo because it’s blocked in by my Mercedes, which hasn’t been used for two months and now won’t start.

Round the back there’s a Golf GTI which arrived for no reason that I can fathom, a Vauxhall Corsa, a spare Volvo XC90, an Aston Martin Vantage – in white, so that won’t be going anywhere – and a perfectly hideous Mitsubishi people carrier of some kind.

But then the last Mitsubishi people carrier that came here turned out to be rather good so I’d like to take this new one for a spin, but I can’t because it’s blocked in by a Ford Ka that doesn’t seem to belong to anyone.

In fact the only car I’ve been able to use these past few days has been the new Honda Civic Type R, and if you’re a young man you’re probably salivating with envy at this point.

The old Civic Type R was the car of choice for those who listen to their stereos with the bass on 10 and the treble turned off altogether, people whose idea of facial hair is a faint earwig on their top lip.

Older people were surprised by its sudden popularity, but not me, simply because it is impossible to be surprised by anything the earwig faces do these days, from wearing their trousers in the manner of a Los Angeles inmate, to the Bacardi bruisers they buy for their girlfriends. Who say “like” after every other word.

My daughter, who’s a bona fide young person, has taken to wearing her school summer dress as though it’s some kind of bushel, with the waistline around her chest and a belt around her bottom. And anyone who chooses to do this is plainly going to make an unusual choice when it comes to saying which car’s cool and which car’s not.

The old Civic Type R won favour not because it was the best hot hatchback but precisely because everyone’s parents – me – were still harping on about the brilliance of the Golf GTI and how sad it was that Peugeot had gone off the boil.

But once the youth moved into Honda-land they found that, actually, the Civic had a number of things going for it. It was relatively cheap to insure – and thanks to a big Honda scene in Japan there were many performance and styling parts available over the internet.

There was something else, too. It was actually very good fun to drive. It wasn’t the fastest car in the world but for the money there was very little else that could put such a huge smile on your face. The way its little engine revved, and revved willingly, to 8,250 was always a rare treat.

Even today there are global websites for owners of this pocket rocket. Every night young men are rushing back from the call centres where they work to offer and discover tasty titbits about their beloved Hondas. “Kind of like, you know like” say the forums. Over and over again.

So that’s why your kids are going to be interested this morning in what the new Civic Type R is like. You should maybe read this out to them. They may even grunt, or if you’re really lucky, shrug.

Here goes then, and first of all it looks fantastic. When Honda first showed off the basic Civic a couple of years ago we were all stunned by the detailing. The triangular exhaust pipes, the door handles that appeared to have come from a 1950s fridge and of course the Space: 1999 dashboard.

But then they put their new car on the road and oh dear. To save £1.50 they’d all been fitted with the wheels from a baby buggy. So you had this huge, super high-tech body with its art deco detailing sitting on the foundations of a Silver Cross pram. And there’s nothing that says “Hey, I’m not a serious player” in the car world more than a set of inappropriately small wheels. See the old Vauxhall Nova for details.

The Type R gets round this because its wheels fill the arches properly. That simple thing, all on its own, transforms the Civic into a properly exciting-looking car. The sort of thing you’d buy for your son, and then keep.

Don’t, though. Because almost everything else about it is rubbish.

First of all there’s the driver’s seat, which is adjusted with a ratchet rather than a wheel. This means you can’t fine-tune the angle of the backrest. You either sit bolt upright, like you’re at the kitchen table, or you lounge, like Sylvia Kristel in those early Emmanuelle films.

Next there’s the rear spoiler. From the outside it looks great, arching across the rear window like that, but from the inside it means you cannot see the car behind. You may as well use the rear-view mirror as a handy place to stick Postit notes for all the good it does.

And now we move into the realms of what you get for the money. I’ll save you the bother of looking it up. It’s diddly squat. Not even sat nav, which is a nuisance when you’re on that big roundabout in Rugby and all the signposts are pointing to places you’ve never heard of. Leamington or Southam? How about neither.

Engine? Well what they’ve done is taken the 198bhp unit from the old Civic and popped it, pretty much unchanged, into the new one. That, of course, would be fine if the new one weighed the same as the old one, but it doesn’t. It weighs a whole lot more.

This then is like saying, “Hmmm. We need a new engine to power the Queen Mary. I know.

Let’s get one out of that jet ski over there.”

Yes, it is still a fine engine. I really do love the revviness of all those VTEC units. But the new Civic is bound to be slightly slower and slightly less economical than the old one. And where’s the progress in that Honda, with your Earth Car and your Power of Dreams ad campaign? The fact of the matter is that Ford, Renault, Vauxhall and Volkswagen can all sell you a hatchback with much more get up and go.

Cunningly, Honda has tried to mask this lack of oomph by fitting the new Type R with a suspension system that, plainly, is made out of bricks. Even my wife, who likes hard-riding cars and thinks the Subaru Impreza is “a bit soft”, was alarmed by the way the Honda leapt and crashed down the road.

Me? I think it’s a disgrace. I don’t care what it’s like on a track, or when it’s doing handbrake turns in a supermarket car park: on a normal road, on a normal day, the ride quality is completely unacceptable. Anyone whose body is held together with a skeleton is going to come home every night in several agonising pieces.

And on top of all this the car I drove could not find Radio 2. It just locked on to Radio 1, which completed my discomfort as surely as if I’d slammed my head in the door.

All things considered, then, I pretty much hated it. It is nowhere near as good as a Golf GTI because, to be honest, it’s nowhere near as good as walking. This, I feel sure, will guarantee its success among the earwig boys.

Vital statistics

Model Honda Civic Type R GT

Engine 1998cc, four cylinders

Power 198bhp @ 7800 rpm

Torque 142 lb ft @ 5600 rpm

Transmission Six-speed manual

Fuel 31mpg (combined)

CO2 215g/km

Acceleration 0-62mph: 6.6sec

Top speed 146mph Price £18,627


:thumbs_up :)
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Encolpius
05-28-2007, 09:25 AM
And the red Honda badge on the front makes it look like Rudolf.
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H4RUN
07-06-2007, 09:36 PM
^u saucy git:p [with all due respec] lol:sl:

Wahey! an old thread:D

The good ol' Type R:D Wicked V tech screaming engine at hi revs:D
The older civic was a pretty awesome performer, whether it be on the twisties, or between traffic lights, as they are usually used for:p
The previous 192 odd brake horsepower may not have seemed all that compared to the likes of the Audi S3 and Focus RS, but the power tot weight ratio made things go in favour for the Type R :D And it handled well:D

As for this new one... Certainly looks different, and dare i say looks pretty menacing:D
Power pretty much same as before, but i hear its a tad lighter, so i guess thats a plus point...The acceleration is acceptable, 6.6 seconds to 60mph or 100kph dependin on where u live..It does appeal a tad more than the present Golf GTI, but i'd like to see this up against a Vauxhall Astra VXR:D or for u europeans, the Opel Astra OPC i think

Right, left, no right:D That's my journalists skills over and done with:D
One last thing...
BIG UP THE HOT HATCHES:D
Oh and a better plus for the above type R civic is that u wont be seeing chavs driving them, well atleast for now until they get cheaper:p

:w::w::w:
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Encolpius
07-06-2007, 10:32 PM
Originally Posted by H4RUN
^u saucy git:p [with all due respec] lol:sl:

Wahey! an old thread:D

The good ol' Type R:D Wicked V tech screaming engine at hi revs:D
The older civic was a pretty awesome performer, whether it be on the twisties, or between traffic lights, as they are usually used for:p
The previous 192 odd brake horsepower may not have seemed all that compared to the likes of the Audi S3 and Focus RS, but the power tot weight ratio made things go in favour for the Type R :D And it handled well:D

As for this new one... Certainly looks different, and dare i say looks pretty menacing:D
Power pretty much same as before, but i hear its a tad lighter, so i guess thats a plus point...The acceleration is acceptable, 6.6 seconds to 60mph or 100kph dependin on where u live..It does appeal a tad more than the present Golf GTI, but i'd like to see this up against a Vauxhall Astra VXR:D or for u europeans, the Opel Astra OPC i think

Right, left, no right:D That's my journalists skills over and done with:D
One last thing...
BIG UP THE HOT HATCHES:D
Oh and a better plus for the above type R civic is that u wont be seeing chavs driving them, well atleast for now until they get cheaper:p

:w::w::w:
I think I'd rather have one of those Chrysler 300s myself than any hot hatch (unless it was the Sierra Cosworth, of course). In black, of course. With the egg-crate grille, of course. And the V8, thankya. That 300C just oozes attitude and DILLIGAF in shedloads.
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H4RUN
07-07-2007, 02:51 PM
Originally Posted by Encolpius
I think I'd rather have one of those Chrysler 300s myself than any hot hatch (unless it was the Sierra Cosworth, of course). In black, of course. With the egg-crate grille, of course. And the V8, thankya. That 300C just oozes attitude and DILLIGAF in shedloads.
Aye aye, the 300C big ol' thang with a V8..Cheaply made inside :D Pretty much same engine in the Vauxhall/holden Monaro, but heck that's more up my street.

AH the Sierra Cosy! I did like the older ones, pre D reg erm 1987 i think..the 2 door coupes, non 4x4, they looked pretty good with the big spoiler, but for the fords there's only one that can talk the talk, and thats the Escort Cosworth:D:D A proper road going rally car, speaking of road going rally cars:p My fav subject...

THE AUDI UR QUATTRO :D:D:D ultimate road going rally car, 220 bhp in the later versions, 0-60mph in the low 6 seconds, handles like it's on rails, and a sound to kill for! Gota love the Audi's 2.2 5 Cylinder 20V engine *droooools*

Used to have a 10V Ur quattro in the family, 1986 C reg, and trust me fella, it had a road presence!

Peeeaaaceee
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Encolpius
07-08-2007, 12:07 AM
Originally Posted by H4RUN
Aye aye, the 300C big ol' thang with a V8..Cheaply made inside :D Pretty much same engine in the Vauxhall/holden Monaro, but heck that's more up my street.

AH the Sierra Cosy! I did like the older ones, pre D reg erm 1987 i think..the 2 door coupes, non 4x4, they looked pretty good with the big spoiler, but for the fords there's only one that can talk the talk, and thats the Escort Cosworth:D:D A proper road going rally car, speaking of road going rally cars:p My fav subject...

THE AUDI UR QUATTRO :D:D:D ultimate road going rally car, 220 bhp in the later versions, 0-60mph in the low 6 seconds, handles like it's on rails, and a sound to kill for! Gota love the Audi's 2.2 5 Cylinder 20V engine *droooools*

Used to have a 10V Ur quattro in the family, 1986 C reg, and trust me fella, it had a road presence!

Peeeaaaceee
Doesn't bother me about the low rent interior, I'm not going to entertain high society guests in it am I?

Yes, I like the Ur Quattro as well... unfortunately it's now a bit hard to come by and a bit, well, collectory. Also if you own a classic or future classic car (Sierra Cos, Ur Quattro, R32 Skyline GTR) then that's a dangerous track to go down. You may turn into one of those bores who spends every waking hour eulogising about that time you rechromed the bumpers using only your teeth and your wife's old undercrackers that you find at classic car meets.
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Yanal
07-08-2007, 12:12 AM
Originally Posted by Encolpius
Doesn't bother me about the low rent interior, I'm not going to entertain high society guests in it am I?

Yes, I like the Ur Quattro as well... unfortunately it's now a bit hard to come by and a bit, well, collectory. Also if you own a classic or future classic car (Sierra Cos, Ur Quattro, R32 Skyline GTR) then that's a dangerous track to go down. You may turn into one of those bores who spends every waking hour eulogising about that time you rechromed the bumpers using only your teeth and your wife's old undercrackers that you find at classic car meets.
Yeh you are going to entertain high society people of course not what are you thinking
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H4RUN
07-09-2007, 09:59 AM
Originally Posted by Encolpius
Doesn't bother me about the low rent interior, I'm not going to entertain high society guests in it am I?

Yes, I like the Ur Quattro as well... unfortunately it's now a bit hard to come by and a bit, well, collectory. Also if you own a classic or future classic car (Sierra Cos, Ur Quattro, R32 Skyline GTR) then that's a dangerous track to go down. You may turn into one of those bores who spends every waking hour eulogising about that time you rechromed the bumpers using only your teeth and your wife's old undercrackers that you find at classic car meets.
Hey, you're going to spend a fait amount of money, and you'd want a nice interior for YOURSELF wouldnt u lol Not Tacky plastic...A good example of build quality, just check out the Audi RS6*droool*

RESPEC for liking the Ur quattro:shade: That is enough to tell me u know your cars, well a bit atleast. Although the R32 has yet to have entered my classic status list.

If you've ever been a passenger or better still driven a Ur quattro you'll know what all the fuss is about, just sheeer brute turbo power, all that lag and then booof! A nice surge of power:D Not to mention going round corners twice the speed of all the other motorists. If u ever get a chance to test drive one, just pose as a phoney buyer lol DO IT! Just remember the feeling you got when u put ur foot down, the engine GROWL, the back squating down, the front lifting, the whole experience blows me away everytime i'm in one :coolious:

My friends got one tuned to approx 300 bhp, may not sound much compared to the evo's and scoobies of now, but it's out of this world lol Just a wicked old skool rally legend for the road, and much much more succesful than any cossie in rallying, especially the 'sport quattro' That was the short wheel based one, with i think 305 brake, 0-60 4.9...and this was about over 20 years ago!

Another i think that deserves classic status and has it! Is the Lancia Delta Integrale/Evo They were sweeeet! Although i still believe the designer looked at the Ur Quattro/sport Quattro before he designed the flared wide arches lol But then i would say that!

OH yeah how could i forget another 2 classics or atleast most defo going to become a classic, The Lotus Omega/Carlton- The fastest four door saloon production car *drools* 377bhp, 419 torque! Rear wheel drive, looooadsa fun! And.....The fastest estate car when it was launched, the Audi RS2!! Woot Wooot! I should be gettin the S2 soon, slightly less in power, for the more mortal of us lol The RS2 got from 0-30mph in 1.5 secs, thats the same as the once fastest car on the planet! The Mclaren F1!

And yeah when u own a car like the above mentioned you would want to look after it, and if u think you shouldnt then i think it's time for you to sell it! Even so, they SHOULD be driven! And when you feel a bit 'good':playing: drive it like u stole it!!!

BTW there's always one or two Ur quattro's for sale here and there, not too hard to get, but to get the correct one is a different matter ;)

Oh and my apologies for going off track in this civic thread lol I think we should have a classic car thread or something, we did have a cars thread here somewhere..

Peeeaceee
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H4RUN
07-09-2007, 10:04 AM
Originally Posted by Iqram
^you sound like me when I'm high on computer specs :D
:sl:

lol HEY get outta here! You're meant to be working! KIDS!:rolleyes:
:w:
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H4RUN
07-09-2007, 12:13 PM
Originally Posted by Iqram
And let you run riots? :rollseyes...Most of us can only dream of these cars anyways. :p
:sl:

lol
'most of us' dont even know the cars mentioned above:p never mind dreaming about them..it's an enthusiasts thing :smile:

:w:
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-09-2007, 12:44 PM
civic type r is nice but...




i've been enthusiastic about this car for about a month now!

just look at it!!! :uuh: !!!!
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H4RUN
07-09-2007, 12:57 PM
:sl:
:p^ i might have to shatter your dreams my friend:p But i wont right now, so enjoy it whilst you can, or until i speak up, mu ha ha ha *echoes*

:w:
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-09-2007, 12:59 PM
Originally Posted by H4RUN
:sl:
:p^ i might have to shatter your dreams my friend:p But i wont right now, so enjoy it whilst you can, or until i speak up, mu ha ha ha *echoes*

:w:

why do i feel like your gonna say a gay man designed the car or something :(
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H4RUN
07-09-2007, 01:04 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
why do i feel like your gonna say a gay man designed the car or something :(
:sl:

lol i wasnt even thinking anything along them lines, it just goes to show that deep down it looks a bit iffy to you to:p

Is it meanta be one of them soft small off roaders? in other words a lil hatchback jacked up and given a 4X4 badge:D
:w:
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IbnAbdulHakim
07-09-2007, 01:08 PM
^ i dunno, it just looks good :D
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Encolpius
07-09-2007, 03:59 PM
Originally Posted by H4RUN
:sl:

lol i wasnt even thinking anything along them lines, it just goes to show that deep down it looks a bit iffy to you to:p

Is it meanta be one of them soft small off roaders? in other words a lil hatchback jacked up and given a 4X4 badge:D
:w:
It is a pretend off roader, and it does look like a hatchback that's had a bicycle pump shoved up its rear. The same applies to the Audi Q7 (Jeremy Clarkson referred to that as "a full 3% uglier than a troll").

Also, you say about the dicky interior but a 300C's not particularly pricy in the grand scheme of things. It's less than an equivalently sized Merc...

Yes, I know a few things about cars and stuff, but I'm not a bore. Nor am I particularly attentive towards shiny bits and powar!!!!1 In fact, ideally I'd have a car that looks like it's one MOT away from the scrap yard but is capable of blasting the doors off a 911 Turbo. Get them when they don't see it coming.
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H4RUN
07-09-2007, 05:55 PM
Originally Posted by Encolpius
It is a pretend off roader, and it does look like a hatchback that's had a bicycle pump shoved up its rear. The same applies to the Audi Q7 (Jeremy Clarkson referred to that as "a full 3% uglier than a troll").

Also, you say about the dicky interior but a 300C's not particularly pricy in the grand scheme of things. It's less than an equivalently sized Merc...

Yes, I know a few things about cars and stuff, but I'm not a bore. Nor am I particularly attentive towards shiny bits and powar!!!!1 In fact, ideally I'd have a car that looks like it's one MOT away from the scrap yard but is capable of blasting the doors off a 911 Turbo. Get them when they don't see it coming.
lol That's where the beauty of the older cars is! These lads going round in the new cars, big engined bla bla...they can easily be put to shame if u know the right undercover car to pick, also known as a 'sleeper', again an ideal sleeper for moi, is an Audi S2 avant, with a few tasty mods u get into Porsche 911 performance territory, all this in a pretty ordinary looking estate:D I would have said the RS2 but camon! Look at the fron bumper! The intakes! The 'Porsche' Callipers and they also have 'POWERED BY PORSCHE' written on the engine, more sepcific the inlet manifold, that would be my 1st 1st 1st choice money no object street sleeper assuming the front bumper was changed to that of a normal S2, make it look less Aggresive, but i like the way it looks as it is lol.

And the money for the 300C As i've mentioned before i think, the monaro, similar engine, or u could opt for the 6.0 V8 VXR looks sweet, and goes like stink, maybe a tad less spacious but a heck of a lot of fun with he torque it churns out..
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Encolpius
07-09-2007, 07:38 PM
Originally Posted by H4RUN
lol That's where the beauty of the older cars is! These lads going round in the new cars, big engined bla bla...they can easily be put to shame if u know the right undercover car to pick, also known as a 'sleeper', again an ideal sleeper for moi, is an Audi S2 avant, with a few tasty mods u get into Porsche 911 performance territory, all this in a pretty ordinary looking estate:D I would have said the RS2 but camon! Look at the fron bumper! The intakes! The 'Porsche' Callipers and they also have 'POWERED BY PORSCHE' written on the engine, more sepcific the inlet manifold, that would be my 1st 1st 1st choice money no object street sleeper assuming the front bumper was changed to that of a normal S2, make it look less Aggresive, but i like the way it looks as it is lol.

And the money for the 300C As i've mentioned before i think, the monaro, similar engine, or u could opt for the 6.0 V8 VXR looks sweet, and goes like stink, maybe a tad less spacious but a heck of a lot of fun with he torque it churns out..
Sleepers = good times.

Or you could get yourself a Tiger Motorsports 8C kit car with two motorbike engines in it. Not particularly powerful, not particularly attractive, but as we know, motorbike engines weigh not very much and put out a lot of power for their weight, and in a car that's basically a frame with a bathtub on it, that translates to sub-three second 0-60 times and the low weight also helps with handling.

Yes, the Holden Monaro is pretty cool. Apparently they've put out a version with 500 horsepower because it's being discontinued in Britain, or so I heard.
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H4RUN
07-09-2007, 09:25 PM
^YUP! 500 BRAKE! Thats the final version they made here, still dont think i've come across one in the flesh though, even at a local Vauxhall show staged a month or so ago, they had all the big dogs there from vauxhall, the VXR range, old skool chevvete HSR's, MK Astra GTE's, Cavalier Gsi's but no turbo! Oh and 3 Lotus carltons:D They did have 1 Monaro, but i think it was the slightly less powered ones...

Now the Vauxhall VXR8 is to replace the monaro, it's going to be four door, so, im thinking a modern day lotus carlton in the making? Nearly 420Bhp, but long gone are the days for this to set any records, ze germans have got some real big boys out there!
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Encolpius
07-09-2007, 10:19 PM
Originally Posted by H4RUN
^YUP! 500 BRAKE! Thats the final version they made here, still dont think i've come across one in the flesh though, even at a local Vauxhall show staged a month or so ago, they had all the big dogs there from vauxhall, the VXR range, old skool chevvete HSR's, MK Astra GTE's, Cavalier Gsi's but no turbo! Oh and 3 Lotus carltons:D They did have 1 Monaro, but i think it was the slightly less powered ones...

Now the Vauxhall VXR8 is to replace the monaro, it's going to be four door, so, im thinking a modern day lotus carlton in the making? Nearly 420Bhp, but long gone are the days for this to set any records, ze germans have got some real big boys out there!
Yes, but how much is this 420 horsepower jobbie going to cost, compared to, say, the next BMW M3, which will have a 400 horse V8 in the front? If they can make it handle anything like an M3 then it'll be worth a look, esp. when you're not paying through the nose for a fancy label?
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H4RUN
07-10-2007, 10:26 AM
Originally Posted by Encolpius
Yes, but how much is this 420 horsepower jobbie going to cost, compared to, say, the next BMW M3, which will have a 400 horse V8 in the front? If they can make it handle anything like an M3 then it'll be worth a look, esp. when you're not paying through the nose for a fancy label?
Handling wise for pure ease on the lift off over steer or even pure powers sliding the monaro was ace! Was highly rated to be a very good handling car, and very easy to control on the limit. Im sure the VXR8 should be pretty similar. On the twsties im not too sure though, but price wise im thinkin in the 30k bracket, which is quite a bargain considering what you get...

Rather than the M3 i think Audi's latest RS4 is a tad more appealing, the quattro system does wonders in that! You'll take corners at silly speeds:smile:
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