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mariam.
05-31-2007, 05:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aaron85
i just wanted to show that in this conflict not only Arabs are victims and Jews not only are the killers.We must remember victims of both sides, otherwise we won't understand this conflict.Arabic and Jewish blood is the same, believe me.Both sides suffer. And both sides must try as hard as they can to make peace and live together like civilizated nations.It can be done, but both sides must agree on compromise.
after you see this picture .. can you answer me?











If you are right ... why those jews Against zionism? Against the occupation?

the Only answer is because they still have hearts ... to know the reality



Rachel Corrie, a 23-year-old student from Olympia, Washington, was murdered while attempting to prevent an Israeli army bulldozer from demolishing a Palestinian home near the southern Gaza city of Rafah. Despite being dressed in a bright colored orange vest, with reflective stripes, and carrying a bullhorn in broad daylight, Israel claimed the soldier driving a 52 ton D-9 bulldozer “could not see” his victim, as he mercilessly crushed her.

When photographs emerged clearly depicting this horrific crime, the Israeli military immediately accused Rachel Corrie of being “irresponsible,” as though this justified deliberate death. Adding insult to injury, in a recent tasteless commentary printed in Israel’s most popular English language newspaper, The Jerusalem Post, the writer is appalled by the exploitive use of the photographs, rather than the murder they so clearly document.

Rachel Corrie was the first US citizen to fall victim to Israel’s indiscriminate lethal force; her death remains ruled as an accident, without any objections from the American government. In fact, the perpetuation of the most brutal (and last remaining) military occupation in history “enjoys” the cover of impunity provided by its strategic alliance with the US, which has produced an alarming formula for lawlessness, radicalization, violence, and destabilization.

And so, it is with the blessings of the US that Corrie’s killer walks free. As Israeli tanks roll through Palestinian villages, towns, and refugee camps; as Apache gunships shell homes and assassinate their human targets; as Palestinian land is stolen and Israeli settlements are expanding; as Israeli prisons swell with Palestinians and the separation wall turns all Palestinian areas into prisons and isolation cells; Washington turns a blind eye.

If you are right .. why she stand beside us ... Against Israel?

the Only answer is because she still have a heart ... to know the reality





If this house is yours







if this family is yours

what's your reaction then?

format_quote Originally Posted by Aaron85
The problem is that Jews were first in Israel, not muslim arabs.
You said that israeli have right to live in our land? To kill us ? To destroy our home? To violate our sacred place? To refuse us to pray in farthest mosque? Because Jews were first in Israel?!

Why we should suffer jews faults and sins .. Now after 3000 years?

peace be with those who have hearts.
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Amadeus85
05-31-2007, 06:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mariam.
after you see this picture .. can you answer me?





.
Those Jews belong to Neturei Karta. They are treated as traitors and insane by great majority of Jews. They took part in a meeting made by Iran president Ahmadinejad about denial of Holocaust. I will tell you, Neturei Karta is treated by great majorrity of Jews (also orthodox Jews) just like Salman Rushdie,Ali Sina and Ayaan Hirsi Ali by majority of muslims, as traitors.
Reply

Amadeus85
05-31-2007, 06:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mariam.

You said that israeli have right to live in our land? To kill us ? To destroy our home? To violate our sacred place? To refuse us to pray in farthest mosque? Because Jews were first in Israel?!

Why we should suffer jews faults and sins .. Now after 3000 years?

peace be with those who have hearts.
Hey hey, i didnt say that Jews should kill and persecute Palestinians.I want those two suffering nations to live in peace and tolerance.But do you want the same? Do you know that Hamas' aims is to clean Israel with all Jews? You keep saying that it is your land. But are you ready to share this Land with Jews? Or you also wanna send them to Europe like many muslims say. In fact Jews always lived in Israel, and Arabs dont have more rights to this Land than Jews.Are you ready for a compromise? Or you prefer fighting till the last drop of Jewish and Arabic blood? I have to say it clearly, i really understand the suffering of palestinians, but without suicide attacks there would be no agrresive responses of Israeli Army.
We must say at the end the conclusion. Arabs will never destroy Israel( they tried so many times and failed) and Israel wont kill all Palestinians. We must all deal with this. The only question is, do you want peace so much to get on compromise and let Israel exist or not.

Regards.
Reply

Amadeus85
05-31-2007, 06:51 PM
Arabs for Israel- zNonie Darwish

Now They Call Me Infidel : Why I Renounced Jihad for America, Israel, and the War on Terror (Hardcover) is Nonie Darwish's personal story of tragedy and redemption, as well as a scholarly analysis of Middle-Eastern culture. Every Western statesman, indeed every European and American citizen will benefit from Ms. Darwish's unique insights into the danger to Western civilization posed by Radical Islam and sustained by deep-rooted Arab/Muslim cultural dynamics.




Walid Shoebat


An organization that cries out for the Justice of Israel and the Jewish people.

The Holocaust never ended but the victims have decided to defend themselves.

The occupation is in the minds of Children who are taught hatred.

Ex Terrorists appear on CN8.

Israel was the solution for the world’s greatest refugee problem that went on for two thousand years

Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?

Walid's interview with Gerry Ryan, Ireland's highest rated radio talk show.

When I finally realized the lies and myths I was taught, it is my duty as a righteous person to speak out

The Israeli Arab Conflict is not about geography but about Jew hatred; Throughout the Islamic as well as Christendom's history Jews have been persecuted, the persecution of Israel is just the same as the old antisemitism.

The Arab refugees are being used as pawns' to create a terror breeding ground, as a form of aggression against Israel.

The Arab refugee problem was caused by Arab aggression and not Israel. Why should Israel be responsible for their fate?
Walid on Fox News' O'Reilly Factor.

No one (Arab or Jew) has a "right of return". Jews who fled Arab persecution from 1948 to 1956 should have no right of return to Arab lands, and Arabs who ran away in 1948 and 1967 should have no right of return either. This should end all argument. Yet the Jews accept this judgment, while the Arabs reject EVERYTHING. - Walid Shoebat
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- Qatada -
05-31-2007, 06:58 PM
Aaron, we're falling back into the same traps again aren't we? How come you choose to ignore all my previous posts? How are we to say that what you say is the truth? When i've continuously given you proof that what is being done by the Jews is actually a 'part of the religion.' And many acts which are done 'in the name of Islaam' aren't part of the religion, infact they're contradicting Islamic teachings?


If you can't remember, i think i'll just quote them again for you:


format_quote Originally Posted by Aaron85
I wonder if Palestinians would do the same with jewish child...I want to believe that answer is -yes.
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Infact they would, and not just that - they did it for many many centuries. Not just for the children, but for all the Jewish people who wanted to settle in the Islamic State. As stated before, because they wanted to flee from other states who were ready to kill them.


That's a kool article by the way, thanks. There are some good people out there from both sides, alhamdulillah (the praise is for Allaah.) :)

format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Thankyou Aaron. Since we're supposed to refer to the religious texts to verify what is being done is correct according to that religion, lets take a sneak look. :)


Let's take a look at the Jewish scripture:

“When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you.

However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. When the LORD your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall use the spoil of your enemies which the LORD your God has given you… Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes

(Deutronomy 20:10-17)


Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But all the girls who have not known man intimately, spare for yourselves.

(Numbers 31:17-18)



Let's look at the Islamic Perspective:


Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.

[Qur'an 2: 190]


The Messenger of Allaah said:

Do not kill any old person, any child, or any woman.” [Abu Dawud]

Do not kill the monks in monasteries,” or “Do not kill the people who are sitting in places of worship.” [Musnad Ahmad]

Narrated Anas ibn Malik: The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: Go in Allah's name, trusting in Allah, and adhering to the religion of Allah's Apostle. Do not kill a decrepit old man, or a young infant, or a child, or a woman; do not be dishonest about booty, but collect your spoils, do right and act well, for Allah loves those who do well. (Sunan Abu Dawud , Book 14, Number 2608)


It is narrated by Ibn 'Umar that a woman was found killed in one of these battles; so the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) forbade the killing of women and children.

[Sahih Muslim, Book 019, Number 4320]

hm.. i wonder who seems innocent now? :)


So it's really ironic you're throwing the same arguments again, especially when we've given you the correct view to it.




Regards.
Reply

Amadeus85
05-31-2007, 07:13 PM
So it's really ironic you're throwing the same arguments again, especially when we've given you the correct view to it.

So the correct view is to say that Hamas and Hesbullah terrorism is justified by this tragic situation?
And i gave here also a example that citizens of my country lived under worse occupation and they did NOT use terror against enemie's civilians.
So what you want me actually to say? Do you want me to say- ah lets give c Hamas and Hesbullah chance to kill all the Jews?
Because i really dont understand you.Maybe you should read my posts again i guess, as i said that i want PEACE for both sides o this conflict, and hapinnes for them. But please dont tell me to say that Hamas is peace loving innocent group fighting with pure methods. And please dont tell me "but".. Either someone is terrorist or he is not. There is no "but" in this.Just like someone is a racist from Ku Klux Klan and desreves to be condemned by me, and also a Hamas member is terrorist, deserved to be condemned by YOU.
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Hawa
05-31-2007, 07:18 PM
The Israeli Arab Conflict is not about geography but about Jew hatred; Throughout the Islamic as well as Christendom's history Jews have been persecuted, the persecution of Israel is just the same as the old antisemitism.
I'm not sure if this is some kind of sick joke. The more we keep throwing useless words such as 'anti-semitism' around, the more we forget about the real issue at hand, whether you support the jews 'right' to a homeland or not, one cannot simply ignore the oppression, the injustice, the murder, the rape and the overall destruction that Israel continues to inflict on a defenceless people.
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Cognescenti
05-31-2007, 07:20 PM
Will all due respect, from the point of view of an outsider, this debate technique of pointing to a couple of lines in a religious document which was transcribed or recollected in a foreign language (perhaps by many authors many years after the fact) over 1000 years ago or even as much as several thousand years ago and then proudly proclaiming "my side is right" seems anachronistic and slightly silly.

There is an old joke....a monk who has spents years bent over ancient texts deciphering forgotten dialects on moldy paper suddenly rushes upstairs to the dinner hall where all the other monks are eating dinner and jumps for joy proclaiming, "Hey guys! There was a mistake in translation. It says 'celebrate' not 'celibate'!"
Reply

- Qatada -
05-31-2007, 07:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aaron85
So the correct view is to say that Hamas and Hesbullah terrorism is justified by this tragic situation?
And i gave here also a example that citizens of my country lived under worse occupation and they did NOT use terror against enemie's civilians.
So what you want me actually to say? Do you want me to say- ah lets give c Hamas and Hesbullah chance to kill all the Jews?
Because i really dont understand you.Maybe you should read my posts again i guess, as i said that i want PEACE for both sides o this conflict, and hapinnes for them. But please dont tell me to say that Hamas is peace loving innocent group fighting with pure methods. And please dont tell me "but".. Either someone is terrorist or he is not. There is no "but" in this.Just like someone is a racist from Ku Klux Klan and desreves to be condemned by me, and also a Hamas member is terrorist, deserved to be condemned by YOU.


If someone goes against Islamic teachings, then they're not doing the correct thing. Infact, there are Islamic scholars who even say that if the enemy fights and kills Muslim women and children, we still SHOULDN'T go down to their level to kill theirs.


Refer to this link:
http://www.islamicboard.com/arabic/4...l-qurtubi.html


These Islamic teachings are of a higher moral level than the 'morals/ethics' of today, which is supposed to be 'the most civilized.'


The reason why i'm disappointed at your posts is because you class the Muslims as evildoers - when i've told you that it's not part of Islaam, even if some people do it. Yet you don't find nothing evil at all, when it's something that's totally ENCOURAGED in Judaism and mentioned in their scripture. And you don't think that they're terrorists.
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Zman
05-31-2007, 09:49 PM
:sl:/Peace To All

Both sides do suffer and have their victims. But, the suffering and victimization is disproportionate. Therefore, Palestinian suffering and victimization outweighs that of the Israeli's.

To try to equate both sides is ridiculous and a slap in the face of the Palestinians and Arabs in general (and I'm not saying anyone here has done that. That's the general view I am left with, when seeing this in the media or discussing it with others outside this forum).

There is no equality between a criminal and the victim. If the victim chooses to defend him/herself and in the process, and the criminal is hurt in the process, then to equate both acts of violence is totally wrong and propagandistic...
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Amadeus85
05-31-2007, 10:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zman
:sl:/Peace To All

Both sides do suffer and have their victims. But, the suffering and victimization is disproportionate. Therefore, Palestinian suffering and victimization outweighs that of the Israeli's.

To try to equate both sides is ridiculous and a slap in the face of the Palestinians and Arabs in general (and I'm not saying anyone here has done that. That's the general view I am left with, when seeing this in the media or discussing it with others outside this forum).

There is no equality between a criminal and the victim. If the victim chooses to defend him/herself and in the process, and the criminal is hurt in the process, then to equate both acts of violence is totally wrong and propagandistic...
So according to your thinking, victims are the Hamas members and the criminals are the civilians in Israeli cities.
How typical.
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mariam.
05-31-2007, 10:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aaron85
Those Jews belong to Neturei Karta. They are treated as traitors and insane by great majority of Jews. They took part in a meeting made by Iran president Ahmadinejad about denial of Holocaust. I will tell you, Neturei Karta is treated by great majorrity of Jews (also orthodox Jews) just like Salman Rushdie,Ali Sina and Ayaan Hirsi Ali by majority of muslims, as traitors.
SO, you answer me ..



Those Jews belong to Neturei Karta .. what about the Others ?!



don't tell me that all those jews are traitors .. that's impossible.

what about Rachel Corrie? don't tell me that she is traitor either.

format_quote Originally Posted by Aaron85
Hey hey, i didnt say that Jews should kill and persecute Palestinians.I want those two suffering nations to live in peace and tolerance.But do you want the same? Do you know that Hamas' aims is to clean Israel with all Jews? You keep saying that it is your land. But are you ready to share this Land with Jews? Or you also wanna send them to Europe like many muslims say. In fact Jews always lived in Israel, and Arabs dont have more rights to this Land than Jews.Are you ready for a compromise? Or you prefer fighting till the last drop of Jewish and Arabic blood? I have to say it clearly, i really understand the suffering of palestinians, but without suicide attacks there would be no agrresive responses of Israeli Army.
We must say at the end the conclusion. Arabs will never destroy Israel( they tried so many times and failed) and Israel wont kill all Palestinians. We must all deal with this. The only question is, do you want peace so much to get on compromise and let Israel exist or not.
actually I understand your view .. but I can't agree with you, Iam sorry



have ever hear about the palestinian emigrants?
do you know how many palestinian emigrants there is?



they are 7 million ... are you understand what I want to said

the peace with those people is impossible ..

please answer me how Arabs dont have more rights to this Land than Jews.

what about those 7 million?









every one of them still have his house's key .. he still remamber his land and trees ...

... you can't never compare between the two sides.
Reply

north_malaysian
06-01-2007, 06:41 AM
Conclusion: Some Jews support Israel, some Jews support Palestine
Some Muslims support Palestine, some Muslims support Israel.
Reply

Pygoscelis
06-01-2007, 07:46 AM
Israel was a very stupid mistake. Hard to believe they didn't see the present situation coming. But it is done now, and there is a whole generation of Israelis who were born in Israel and moving them now would just be compounding the injustice that was moving the palestinians their grandparents displaced.

The Jews and Palestinians just need to find a way to coexist.

Why can't palestinians just be integrated into Israel as equal citizens?

Frankly, I'm sick of the whole conflict. It has been diverting attention away from other important areas of concern for decades now.

Just a thought, but perhaps what they need is a common threat to rally against, to bring them toghether. Maybe we should announce to them that they must find a way to peacefully coexist within a certain timeframe, or we will whipe them both out.
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north_malaysian
06-01-2007, 07:56 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
The Jews and Palestinians just need to find a way to coexist.
Agree!!!!!!!!:thumbs_up

format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Why can't palestinians just be integrated into Israel as equal citizens?
Or Israelis integrated into Palestine as equal citizens.

Or Both integrated into a country known as Republic of the Holy Land, or Palestinian and Israeli Republic.

Or two states in accordance to the Green Lines. But sharing Jerusalem.

There are zillions of solutions for this conflict.... but...


format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Frankly, I'm sick of the whole conflict. It has been diverting attention away from other important areas of concern for decades now.
I'm even more sick looking at the Palestinians fighting each others...

format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis:753774
...or we will whipe them both out.
and make the land as natural sanctuary for wild animals.... yeah... why not.
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InToTheRain
06-01-2007, 08:39 AM
The Israeli Arab Conflict is not about geography but about Jew hatred; Throughout the Islamic as well as Christendom's history Jews have been persecuted
True, but there is a reason for this. Maybe you should start asking yourself why the Jews were and are hated?

some Muslims support Israel
Strongly disagree unless they are ignorant.
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Gangster No.1
06-01-2007, 09:24 AM
''GET OUT'' i say to the jews, the land is not yours and you will never live happy ever after, inshallah the muslim palestinians will have there land back, becusause it is THER'S!

and that is why Hamas, and the rest of the groups are fighting to get there land back! and they will never stop until inshallah we will have it back!

It is the Israeiles fault, and they will just have 2 live with it, Inshllah when the time comes muslims will dominate, and muslims will all rise against the kufr who are killing and remmeber WE will get OUR land back!

I dont have the hadith, but I am certain that is says WE should DEFEND our Land, wealth, FAMILLY ETC.

:w:
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mariam.
06-01-2007, 11:38 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
I'm even more sick looking at the Palestinians fighting each others...
you are right .. that's harder than any other Israeli violation.

format_quote Originally Posted by Gangster No.1
''GET OUT'' i say to the jews, the land is not yours and you will never live happy ever after, inshallah the muslim palestinians will have there land back, becusause it is THER'S!

and that is why Hamas, and the rest of the groups are fighting to get there land back! and they will never stop until inshallah we will have it back!

It is the Israeiles fault, and they will just have 2 live with it, Inshllah when the time comes muslims will dominate, and muslims will all rise against the kufr who are killing and remmeber WE will get OUR land back!

I dont have the hadith, but I am certain that is says WE should DEFEND our Land, wealth, FAMILLY ETC.
"And We decreed for the Children of Israel in the Book, that twice would they do mischief on the earth and be elated with mighty arrogance (and twice would they be punished)!

When the first of the warnings came to pass, We sent against you Our servants given to terrible warfare. They entered the very inmost parts of your homes; and it was a warning (completely) fulfilled.

Then did We grant you victory over them: We gave you increase in resources and sons, and made you the more numerous in man-power.

If ye did well, ye did well for yourselves; if ye did evil, (ye did it) against yourselves. So when the second of the warnings came to pass, (We permitted your enemies) to disfigure your faces, and to enter your Temple as they had entered it before, and to visit with destruction all that fell into their power.

It may be that your Lord may (yet) show Mercy unto you; but if ye revert (to your sins), We shall revert (to Our punishments): And we have made Hell a prison for those who reject (all Faith)." (4-8:Al-Isrá)

may God blessing you brother .... thank you
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Amadeus85
06-01-2007, 07:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gangster No.1
''GET OUT'' i say to the jews, the land is not yours and you will never live happy ever after, inshallah the muslim palestinians will have there land back, becusause it is THER'S!

and that is why Hamas, and the rest of the groups are fighting to get there land back! and they will never stop until inshallah we will have it back!

It is the Israeiles fault, and they will just have 2 live with it, Inshllah when the time comes muslims will dominate, and muslims will all rise against the kufr who are killing and remmeber WE will get OUR land back!

I dont have the hadith, but I am certain that is says WE should DEFEND our Land, wealth, FAMILLY ETC.

:w:
Israelis survived Holocaust, they survived 2000 years without own state, they will survive arabs' hatred as well. Your civilan murderers from Hamas won't destroy Israel.
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Zman
06-01-2007, 09:14 PM
:sl:/Peace To All

Originally Posted by Aaron85
I wonder if Palestinians would do the same with jewish child...I want to believe that answer is -yes.
I would like to point out the following:

Compare how many Palestinian children who were saved by Jews, To those Palestinian children who have been deliberately targeted for murder and in what is euphemistcally termed as "Collateral Damage," by Jews...
Reply

wilberhum
06-01-2007, 09:23 PM
I was thinking last night. I know that is unusual, but I do that once and a while.
So I said to my self, “Self, aren’t all borders set by war?”
After great thought, I came up with one continent where the borders were not set by war.
Australia. There they took the entire continent.

The next question I ask was “Where is there fighting to change the borders?”
I would only come up with two, Palestine and Kashmir.

So then I ask my self, “Do they have anything in common?”
I could think of two.
Both conflicts were set into motion by the UN creating countries.
Both conflicts involve Muslims.

But there was one difference that I thought was quite interesting.
When Pakistan was created by taking Indian land, it was good, in fact it was so good they wanted more and the fight for Kashmir started.
When Israel was created by taking Palestinian land, it was evil, in fact it was so evil that wars were started to destroy it.

After the wars to destroy the evil empire were lost by the aggressors, guess what,
There were new borders. Kind of the same result that has occurred in every war.

Since it seams that the majority on this forum thinks the solution to this is more war,
I suggest that every country in the world goes to war with any neighbor that has ever taken any of there territory. Then we could truly have a world war.

But then I thought, maybe that isn’t such a good idea.
How come most of you can’t figure this out?
Reply

Zman
06-01-2007, 09:28 PM
:sl:/Peace To All

The Israeli Arab Conflict is not about geography but about Jew hatred; Throughout the Islamic as well as Christendom's history Jews have been persecuted
No disrespect intended, but this has to be the most moronic statement, I've ever read by a non-Muslim.

The conflict revolves around the theft of Arab land by the Jews.

It revolves around 5 wars out of 7, that were started by the Jews (1948, 56, 67, 82, and the destruction of Lebanon by Israel last summer).

It revolves around the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people by the Jews.

Throughout Christendom's history, Jews have been persecuted by Christians, and have sought refuge in the Islamic World...
Reply

Amadeus85
06-01-2007, 09:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zman
:sl:/Peace To All



I would like to point out the following:

Compare how many Palestinian children who were saved by Jews, To those Palestinian children who have been deliberately targeted for murder and in what is euphemistcally termed as "Collateral Damage," by Jews...
I asked this question because i wondered if the same women who often send their own children for death, to become shaheeds, would they rescue a jewish child.
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noodles
06-01-2007, 09:44 PM
But then I thought, maybe that isn’t such a good idea.
How come most of you can’t figure this out?
Because a lot of individuals (wrinkled and wrinkle-free, Muslims and Non-Muslims alike) come here to understand other's viewpoints. However, they get so engrossed in these arguments that they feel it is incumbent on them to prove to the opposition they their viewpoint is correct and their enemies, false.

Sadly, I've noticed a gradual change in the manner people address others (once again Muslims & Non-Muslims)

As far as agreeing with what other's say, it'll never happen. Sure once in a while people would be civil and consider what the opposition has to say, but changing their views on the subject matter sounds very far-fetched. It's possible, but highly unlikely.

World affairs, in a literal sense (not this part of the forum, but the reality), is being controlled by wrinkly old men who have little consideration for what the youth want. That isn't to say that "all" wrinkly old men are inconsiderate or immoral, because it isn't so, nor is it proper to say that leaving thing's in youth's hands is proper either because they must be taught. Somewhere along those lines there are people who are concerned about their future, but their voice are unheard of in the general stance of media. I'm sure it will only get worse.

Anyway, my little rant seems a little off topic, because I'm... 'off'-topic :p

BACK ON TOPIC FOLKS

P.S My reasons for visiting this part of the section are not to be discussed, because my noodle is a little off today. :)
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- Qatada -
06-01-2007, 09:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aaron85
I asked this question because i wondered if the same women who often send their own children for death, to become shaheeds, would they rescue a jewish child.

I think you'll realise that christian 'martyrs' are praised also, and anyone who sends their son/daughter off to war does so and takes pride in that. Even if they're not doing it for God's cause, but for a colored flag only.
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wilberhum
06-01-2007, 09:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
I think you'll realise that christian 'martyrs' are praised also, and anyone who sends their son/daughter off to war does so and takes pride in that. Even if they're not doing it for God's cause, but for a colored flag only.
I see no compairson. Christian Martyrs gave up there life before they would give up there god. Not quite the same as someone who kills himself to blow up a bus load of kids for god.
Reply

- Qatada -
06-01-2007, 10:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
I see no compairson. Christian Martyrs gave up there life before they would give up there god. Not quite the same as someone who kills himself to blow up a bus load of kids for god.


The final Messenger of God, Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:

[In the Context of War:]

Do not kill any old person, any child, or any woman.” [Abu Dawud]

Do not kill the monks in monasteries,” or “Do not kill the people who are sitting in places of worship.” [Musnad Ahmad]

Narrated Anas ibn Malik: The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: Go in Allah's name, trusting in Allah, and adhering to the religion of Allah's Apostle. Do not kill a decrepit old man, or a young infant, or a child, or a woman; do not be dishonest about booty, but collect your spoils, do right and act well, for Allah loves those who do well. (Sunan Abu Dawud , Book 14, Number 2608)


It is narrated by Ibn 'Umar that a woman was found killed in one of these battles; so the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) forbade the killing of women and children.

[Sahih Muslim, Book 019, Number 4320]



In the final testament of God, in the Qur'an, God/Allaah the Most Merciful says:

Whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind...

[Qur'an 5: 32]



I've had this discussion with Aaron before, and in the OT - it has loads of verses which allows the killing of children and women, so in reality - the argument backfires.



Regards.
Reply

snakelegs
06-01-2007, 10:10 PM
why are we playing "who's the biggest victim" games here?
war is hell. real people suffer and die. children cry and scream, blood is shed.
Reply

Amadeus85
06-01-2007, 10:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
I think you'll realise that christian 'martyrs' are praised also, and anyone who sends their son/daughter off to war does so and takes pride in that. Even if they're not doing it for God's cause, but for a colored flag only.
The difference is that while christian martyrs are being killed for their faith, palestinian shaheeds blow up themselves in crowds of innocent people. It is quite a difference.
Reply

- Qatada -
06-01-2007, 10:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aaron85
The difference is that while christian martyrs are being killed for their faith, palestinian shaheeds blow up themselves in crowds of innocent people. It is quite a difference.

And who said they're doing the right thing if they're killing innocents?


If we're going to use what we see in history or on the media, then it's really really easy to use the Crusaders as a central discussion point. That's why i prefer the religious text to the actions of some followers.



Regards.
Reply

wilberhum
06-01-2007, 10:35 PM
in the OT - it has loads of verses which allows the killing of children and women, so in reality - the argument backfires.
My arguement does not fail. Every religion contains an element of evil.
Reply

Zman
06-01-2007, 10:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aaron85
I asked this question because i wondered if the same women who often send their own children for death, to become shaheeds, would they rescue a jewish child.

The dead of Masada are considered martyrs by the Jewish people, correct?

They committed mass suicide, and in many cases, fathers and mothers slit the throats of their own children (they sent their own children to their deaths).

Why are they so honored, and not condemned and villified?

The current Russian Army has a Unit composed of Warrior-Priests, in order to become martyrs in combat (I saw that episode on the History Channel). They are doing that for Orthodoxy and aren't condemned nor villified.
Reply

- Qatada -
06-01-2007, 10:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
My arguement does not fail. Every religion contains an element of evil.

You'll have to define evil.
Reply

Amadeus85
06-01-2007, 10:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
The final Messenger of God, Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:

[In the Context of War:]

Do not kill any old person, any child, or any woman.” [Abu Dawud]

Do not kill the monks in monasteries,” or “Do not kill the people who are sitting in places of worship.” [Musnad Ahmad]

Narrated Anas ibn Malik: The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: Go in Allah's name, trusting in Allah, and adhering to the religion of Allah's Apostle. Do not kill a decrepit old man, or a young infant, or a child, or a woman; do not be dishonest about booty, but collect your spoils, do right and act well, for Allah loves those who do well. (Sunan Abu Dawud , Book 14, Number 2608)


It is narrated by Ibn 'Umar that a woman was found killed in one of these battles; so the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) forbade the killing of women and children.

[Sahih Muslim, Book 019, Number 4320]



In the final testament of God, in the Qur'an, God/Allaah the Most Merciful says:

Whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind...

[Qur'an 5: 32]



I've had this discussion with Aaron before, and in the OT - it has loads of verses which allows the killing of children and women, so in reality - the argument backfires.



Regards.
I dont understand why you show me those verses. We talk about reality , about war here and now.
You want to show me that Islam forbids killing innocent people, and Judaism allows doing it in war.
But dear brother, in reality how many are there jewish terrorists in Israel and how many are there muslim terrorists in palestinian territories?
It seems that both Jews and Arabs simply dont read or understand their holy scriptures.
I will now put a conclusion of my views.
I know that this is a bloody conflict, and palestinians suffer.i know that many of them lost houses and relatives.But if Palestinians had honour and high moral standards they would not attack civilians in Israel. Is this so hard to understand for you?
Believe me, many people in diferent places of world, suffered more than Palestinians and lived in worse situations, but they somehow had enough honour and morality not to use terrorism and not to attack deliberately civilians.
When Israeli soldier kills a palestinian civilian it also makes me sick and i want him to face the war tribunal. I condemn such act.
But so many muslims (too scary maybe?) dont condemn Hamas terrorists, but also justify them and praise them.
And it makes me sick.
But maybe our cultures and civilizations differ to much, so you may never understand my point of view.
Reply

wilberhum
06-01-2007, 10:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
You'll have to define evil.
EVIL 1. morally bad: profoundly immoral or wrong
Reply

noodles
06-01-2007, 10:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
My arguement does not fail. Every religion contains an element of evil.
I'm straying off-topic. You note that religion contains evil and thus making it's followers evil. So does this mean that a lack of religion mean you are free of accusations that you are evil?

Islamic belief has taught me what is proper and improper, and it differs greatly from many other religions present today, and it also differs for what 'your' opinion of what is proper and improper is and thus you haven't a right to call elements of another religion evil.
Reply

Amadeus85
06-01-2007, 10:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
And who said they're doing the right thing if they're killing innocents?






Regards.
And how many muslims support Hamas, Hesbullah, Islamic Jihad and Al Aqsa Brigades? Those groups actually kill innocents.
Reply

- Qatada -
06-01-2007, 10:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aaron85
I dont understand why you show me those verses. We talk about reality , about war here and now.
You want to show me that Islam forbids killing innocent people, and Judaism allows doing it in war.

But dear brother, in reality how many are there jewish terrorists in Israel and how many are there muslim terrorists in palestinian territories?
It seems that both Jews and Arabs simply dont read or understand their holy scriptures.


I will now put a conclusion of my views.
I know that this is a bloody conflict, and palestinians suffer.i know that many of them lost houses and relatives.But if Palestinians had honour and high moral standards they would not attack civilians in Israel. Is this so hard to understand for you?

Believe me, many people in diferent places of world, suffered more than Palestinians and lived in worse situations, but they somehow had enough honour and morality not to use terrorism and not to attack deliberately civilians.

When Israeli soldier kills a palestinian civilian it also makes me sick and i want him to face the war tribunal. I condemn such act.
But so many muslims (too scary maybe?) dont condemn Hamas terrorists, but also justify them and praise them.
And it makes me sick.

But maybe our cultures and civilizations differ to much, so you may never understand my point of view.

It depends on who you define as a terrorist, and it depends on who you call a 'freedom fighter.' You may feel that it's the muslims who are the terrorists, fighting for their land, but how can i say that the Jews [who have them verses which we quoted earlier] aren't terrorists when their own religious texts encourage them acts?

Do you think if a religious text allowed you to do something, you would disagree with it? Or would you think that your religious text is truth, acceptable in the sight of God - so you will go ahead with it? Now if these people have texts which allow the killing of women, children ruthlessly, then should i really say that these are peaceful people?


Yes you may say that the actions of the Palestinian Muslims are un-Islamic if they harm innocents, but atleast they may feel guilty for going against the commandments of their religious texts. Whereas the Jews will feel proud for killing innocents since it's encouraged in their texts, and they may feel that they are pleasing God Almighty for the evil acts that they do.


I hope you understand what i mean.
Reply

- Qatada -
06-01-2007, 10:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aaron85
And how many muslims support Hamas, Hesbullah, Islamic Jihad and Al Aqsa Brigades? Those groups actually kill innocents.

If ANY of these groups are doing acts which go against the Qur'an or the Sunnah, then we stick to the Qur'an and Sunnah [Prophetic way] over what other humans do. Since divine guidance is the truth, and anyone who contradicts that isn't doing the right thing. Therefore if any group goes against what God and His Messenger say - then we condemn them acts.
Reply

wilberhum
06-01-2007, 10:48 PM
you haven't a right to call elements of another religion evil.
You would be hard pressed to find many agnostics that would agree with that.
You would be hard pressed to find any atheists that would agree with that.

Oh I for forgot, no god, no morals.
Reply

noodles
06-01-2007, 10:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
You would be hard pressed to find many agnostics that would agree with that.
You would be hard pressed to find any atheists that would agree with that.

Oh I for forgot, no god, no morals.
You should note that nowhere did I accuse you of having no morals. :) Instead, I was proving to you that your criteria for defining something or someone as evil is very much flawed, that is all.

Like I said, we all have our differances, and some choose to voice them out politely while others harshly.
Reply

Amadeus85
06-01-2007, 10:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
. Therefore if any group goes against what God and His Messenger say - then we condemn them acts.
"We" you mean You and other moderaters in IslamicBoard?
And what with the rest of 1 billion muslims? Dont they read Quaran?
And why you say - "if" any of this group acts against Quaran, while you know perfectly what these groups do?
Reply

- Qatada -
06-01-2007, 10:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aaron85
"We" you mean You and other moderaters in IslamicBoard?
And what with the rest of 1 billion muslims? Dont they read Quaran?
And why you say - "if" any of this group acts against Quaran, while you know perfectly what these groups do?

Aaron, tell me - have you ever seen TV. Have you seen who the US, UK is fighting? They're fighting muslims right? Now do you think that someone who is a supposed 'enemy' to a certain country - do you think they're going to clear the misconceptions by saying that Muslims condemn them acts, or do you think they want people to fear the enemy so the people of that nation support the cause for the war?


Isn't it logical that if someone does an action which goes against your religious texts you condemn it? What else do you do, do you promote it?
Reply

Amadeus85
06-01-2007, 10:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
It depends on who you define as a terrorist, and it depends on who you call a 'freedom fighter.' You may feel that it's the muslims who are the terrorists, fighting for their land, but how can i say that the Jews [who have them verses which we quoted earlier] aren't terrorists when their own religious texts encourage them acts?

Do you think if a religious text allowed you to do something, you would disagree with it? Or would you think that your religious text is truth, acceptable in the sight of God - so you will go ahead with it? Now if these people have texts which allow the killing of women, children ruthlessly, then should i really say that these are peaceful people?


Yes you may say that the actions of the Palestinian Muslims are un-Islamic if they harm innocents, but atleast they may feel guilty for going against the commandments of their religious texts. Whereas the Jews will feel proud for killing innocents since it's encouraged in their texts, and they may feel that they are pleasing God Almighty for the evil acts that they do.


I hope you understand what i mean.
Finally i have understood what you mean. :D :D
Reply

- Qatada -
06-01-2007, 10:58 PM
OK, cool lol :)


Anyway it's been nice chatting with you.



Peace.
Reply

Amadeus85
06-01-2007, 11:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
OK, cool lol :)


Anyway it's been nice chatting with you.



Peace.
Nice chatting always happens when two inteligent guys meet :D :D :D

Shalom :)
Reply

Zman
06-01-2007, 11:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aaron85
And how many muslims support Hamas, Hesbullah, Islamic Jihad and Al Aqsa Brigades? Those groups actually kill innocents.

The IDF has killed much more innocents, than those groups combined.

Let me ask you this, and please be honest. If the above groups killed Israeli soldiers in their operations, would you still consider that as being a "terrorist" operation or purely a military operation?
Reply

Amadeus85
06-01-2007, 11:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zman

. If the above groups killed Israeli soldiers in their operations, would you still consider that as being a "terrorist" operation or purely a military operation?
Then they would be a military operation. If they fight with israeli army only it is understood and normal.
But when those groups send a Palestinian boy or a gril with pounds of explosives materials on them and tell them to blow up themselves in a bus full of innocent people, then i call those groups bunch of cowards and beasts.

Clear and simple. Shalom.
Reply

Zman
06-01-2007, 11:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aaron85
Then they would be a military operation. If they fight with israeli army only it is understood and normal.
Good. Then, we're both on the same page here.

Because, some people still claim that is also terrorism.

But when those groups send a Palestinian boy or a gril with pounds of explosives materials on them and tell them to blow up themselves in a bus full of innocent people, then i call those groups bunch of cowards and beasts.

And what is your view on a settler(s) who deliberately seeks out a Palestinian civilian, and executes him/her, Just because they are Palestinian. Is that settler(s) also a terrorist?

Or the IDF which deliberately targets civilians (with no "militants/combatants" around, like the incident on the Gaza Beach), or firing into a neighborhood which kills tens of innocent civilians Just to take out passengers in a car, or a building that ends up not containing any "terrorists?"

The IDF/Shin Bet has a successful history of sending in commando units to abduct wanted "terrorists," in hostile territory. That would seem a far more appropriate method...
Reply

Amadeus85
06-02-2007, 02:08 PM
And what is your view on a settler(s) who deliberately seeks out a Palestinian civilian, and executes him/her, Just because they are Palestinian. Is that settler(s) also a terrorist?
Terrorist.

Or the IDF which deliberately targets civilians (with no "militants/combatants" around, like the incident on the Gaza Beach), or firing into a neighborhood which kills tens of innocent civilians Just to take out passengers in a car, or a building that ends up not containing any "terrorists?"
If they do it on purpose, my opinion is- terroristss.

Now it is your turn- Are Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al Aqsa Brigades terrorists for you?
Reply

mariam.
06-02-2007, 05:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
why are we playing "who's the biggest victim" games here?
war is hell. real people suffer and die. children cry and scream, blood is shed.
actually, you are right .. both sides suffer and die .. but, briefly Isreal is the responsible.

those believers in the two sides are victims .. In a world stained with injustice, tragedies and woes which stem from the hostility of man against man, being fueled by the selfish interests of narrow-minded opportunists by inflaming emotions and provoking passions through exploiting the inherent power of religion, which is in essence a divine system that promotes man, maintains his life and guarantees his rights; the significance of awareness and insightful comprehension rises as a fort that safeguards against falling into the mires of the lesion of seeing the ugly beautiful.

let's diagnose for a disease that worsens by ignorance .. let's elucidate and a quest for remedy which is based on awareness and right understanding.

So that the Religion Does not Become a Game ..
Reply

north_malaysian
06-04-2007, 07:40 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
The next question I ask was “Where is there fighting to change the borders?”
I would only come up with two, Palestine and Kashmir.
Territorial disputes:

* Abrene - Russia vs. Latvia
* Abu Musa - Iran vs. UAE
* Aegean Sea/Islands Dispute - Turkey vs. Greece
* Agacher Strip - Burkina Faso vs. Mali
* Aksai Chin - India vs. China
* Ambalat - Malaysia vs. Indonesia
* Argentine Antarctica - UK vs. Argentina vs. Chile
* Arunachal Pradesh - India vs. China
* Atacama - Chile vs. Bolivia
* Badme - Eritrea vs. Ethiopia
* Bajo Nuevo Bank - USA vs. Colombia vs. Jamaica vs. Honduras
* Bakassi - Cameroon vs. Nigeria
* British Antarctic Territory - UK vs. Argentina vs. Chile
* British Indian Ocean Territory - UK vs. Mauritius vs. Seychelles
* Cerro Chalten - Argentina vs. Chile
* Chamizal - USA vs. Mexico
* East Jerusalem - Palestine vs. Israel
* Eastern Vilnius Region - Belarus vs. Lithuania
* Gibraltar - UK vs. Spain
* Golan Heights - Israel vs. Syria
* Gorno Badakhshan - Tajikistan vs. Taiwan
* Guayana Esequiba - Venezuela vs. Guyana
* Gulf of Piran - Croatia vs. Slovenia
* Hala'ib Triangle - Sudan vs. Egypt
* Heixiazi Island - China vs. Russia
* Ilemi Tringle - Ethiopia vs. Sudan vs. Kenya
* Kinmen - China vs. Taiwan
* Kuril Islands - Japan vs. Russia
* Leticia - Colombia vs. Peru
* Liancourt Rocks - Japan vs. South Korea
* Macclesfield Bank - China vs. Taiwan vs. Vietnam
* Matsu Islands - China vs. Taiwan
* Moresnet - Germany vs. Belgium vs. Holland
* Mount HErmon - Israel vs. Syria
* Navassa Island - USA vs. Haiti
* Ojinaga Cut - USA vs. Mexico
* Olivenza - Spain vs. Portugal
* Paracel Islands - China vs. Taiwan vs. Vietnam
* Pratas Islands - China vs. Taiwan
* Rio Grande - USA vs. Mexico
* Rio Rico - USA vs. Mexico
* Rosalind Bank - USA vs. Jamaica vs. Colombia vs. Nicaragua vs. Honduras
* Sabah - Malaysia vs. Philippines
* Sarych - Russia vs. Ukraine
* Senkaku Islands - Japan vs. China vs. Taiwan
* Serranilla Bank - USA vs. Colombia vs. Honduras
* Shebaa Farm - Israel vs. Lebanon
* Siachen Glacier - India vs. Pakistan
* Snake Island - Ukraine vs. Romania
* Socotra Rock - China vs. South Korea
* Swains Island - USA vs. Tokelau
* Tibet - China vs. Taiwan vs. Tibet (in exile)
* Tuzla Island - Russia vs. Ukraine
* Wake Island - USA vs. Marshall Islands
* Western Vilnius Region - Poland vs. Lithuania
* Zhenbao Island - China vs. Russia

Source: Wikipedia
Reply

Zman
06-04-2007, 07:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aaron85
Terrorist.

If they do it on purpose, my opinion is- terroristss.

Now it is your turn- Are Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al Aqsa Brigades terrorists for you?

Sorry for the late reply, Aaron.

As for Hamas, I think they are truly a resistance movement. Plus, they are officially and legally part of the government. Therefore, it is their duty to protect the Palestinian people and their government. And they're more legitimate now.

Therefore, I wouldn't classify them as a real terrorist organization, but if they target civilians, then they're using terror tactics.

Islamic Jihad, I would say use more terror tactics. Again, if they only attack israeli military targets and occupation troops, then they aren't using terror tactics.

As for AQ Martyrs Brigade, I don' why they're around. The'ye part of the PLO, and they've Just been utterly corrupt (in my opinion).

Again, if they only attack occupation troops and targets, that's not terrorism.

Most imporatantly, it's how the Palestinians and Arabs in general see them. The Western view (governments and some populations) will always be more biased and sides with Israel and condones its actions.

For the Easterners, they have a more balanced and realistic view...
Reply

wilberhum
06-04-2007, 07:32 PM
One thing that always perplexes me is the concept that “resistance movement” and “Terrorist Group” are mutually exclusive.

To me it is obvious that some resistance movements use terror tactics.
Reply

lilah
06-04-2007, 08:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aaron85
Hey hey, i didnt say that Jews should kill and persecute Palestinians.I want those two suffering nations to live in peace and tolerance.But do you want the same? Do you know that Hamas' aims is to clean Israel with all Jews? You keep saying that it is your land. But are you ready to share this Land with Jews? Or you also wanna send them to Europe like many muslims say. In fact Jews always lived in Israel, and Arabs dont have more rights to this Land than Jews.Are you ready for a compromise? Or you prefer fighting till the last drop of Jewish and Arabic blood? I have to say it clearly, i really understand the suffering of palestinians, but without suicide attacks there would be no agrresive responses of Israeli Army.
We must say at the end the conclusion. Arabs will never destroy Israel( they tried so many times and failed) and Israel wont kill all Palestinians. We must all deal with this. The only question is, do you want peace so much to get on compromise and let Israel exist or not.

Regards.

jews muslims and christians lived in peace for centuries prior to the formation of the *illegal* state of isreal
Reply

wilberhum
06-04-2007, 08:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lilah
jews muslims and christians lived in peace for centuries prior to the formation of the *illegal* state of isreal
So we should never have peace again?
I just participated in this poll on Al Jazeera:

Will Israel and the Palestinians ever forge a lasting peace? :skeleton:
Yes : 31.4 %
No : 51.0 %
I don't know : 17.5 %
Number of pollers:2071
Reply

Zman
06-04-2007, 08:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
One thing that always perplexes me is the
To me it is obvious that some resistance movements use terror tactics.
So do national military units.

Terrorism is a military tactic...
Reply

wilberhum
06-04-2007, 08:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zman
So do national military units.

Terrorism is a military tactic...
Terrorism is a tactic. :skeleton:
The military can use it, a country can use it, a group can use it, and an individual can use it. :?
Reply

Fishman
06-04-2007, 08:48 PM
:sl:
There is a simple answer to who the victim is: civilians.
:w:
Reply

BanGuLLy
06-04-2007, 11:20 PM



Imagine if that was your mom...

:raging: :raging: :raging: :raging:
Reply

wilberhum
06-04-2007, 11:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Bangsta



Imagine if that was your mom...

:raging: :raging: :raging: :raging:
Why use your imagination. Look at the shadows. They point in two different directions.
That means it was made up to cause exactly the reaction you have.

Cool down, it is fake. You just got played.
Reply

BanGuLLy
06-04-2007, 11:45 PM
I have no idea what you're talking about...
Reply

BanGuLLy
06-04-2007, 11:48 PM
theres nothing wrong with the shadows and its a real pic..
niggas tellin me I got played... lmao
Reply

lilah
06-04-2007, 11:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
So we should never have peace again?
I just participated in this poll on Al Jazeera:

Will Israel and the Palestinians ever forge a lasting peace? :skeleton:
Yes : 31.4 %
No : 51.0 %
I don't know : 17.5 %
Number of pollers:2071
there will be peace when there is justice and that justice is fair. anytime there is an imbalance in the justice system, anarchy and chaos soon follow.
Reply

wilberhum
06-04-2007, 11:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Bangsta
I have no idea what you're talking about...
The shadow from the boy kicking points to your left.
The shadow from the boy polling points to your right.

The picture is a fake.
Reply

BanGuLLy
06-04-2007, 11:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
The shadow from the boy kicking points to your left.
The shadow from the boy polling points to your right.

The picture is a fake.
lol are u blind...
The boys shadow kicking points to the left..
The GIRLS shadow pulling is underneath and also to the left..but u cant see it..
dogg u cant even tell a boy from a girl..
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
06-04-2007, 11:53 PM
simple logic dictates that the one who has initially caused the damage is the offender and the one who defended in retaliation is the victim.


am i missing something? please let me know if my logic is flawed :)
Reply

wilberhum
06-05-2007, 12:00 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Bangsta
lol are u blind...
The boys shadow kicking points to the left..
The GIRLS shadow pulling is underneath and also to the left..but u cant see it..
dogg u cant even tell a boy from a girl..
Suit your self. You like being angry over made up stuff. Be my guest. :skeleton:
Reply

BanGuLLy
06-05-2007, 12:04 AM
k.......
niggas hallucinatin and seein tings lmao..
Reply

Zman
06-05-2007, 02:42 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Bangsta
niggas..
:sl:

Can you please stop using that word?
Reply

BanGuLLy
06-05-2007, 02:46 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Zman
:sl:

Can you please stop using that word?
Sorry... I dont use it as an offense..
Reply

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