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wilberhum
06-02-2007, 06:36 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/06/02/jfk...lot/index.html
NEW YORK (CNN) -- Three suspects have been arrested in what authorities say was a terror plot aimed at New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport. A fourth suspect is being sought, law enforcement officials said on Saturday.
Homeland Security sources said the airport is not under threat and that the attack as planned was "not technically feasible."
The planning, which began last summer, involved four men, and targeted fuel tanks and pipelines at the airport, law enforcement sources said.
It did not target airplane flights, they said.
The goal was to set off explosives in a fuel line that feeds the airport and also runs through residential neighborhoods, The Associated Press reported, quoting officials close to the investigation.
This is just the first part of the article. To read is all, go to the link.
(I don't do huge copy/paste of articles)
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- Qatada -
06-02-2007, 07:19 PM
The main thing is, if that's true - it's unislamic to harm innocents purposelly. :)
Reply

Lina
06-02-2007, 08:23 PM
:sl:

Yeah right.

"Anytime you hit Kennedy, it is the most hurtful thing to the United States. To hit John F. Kennedy, wow...they love JFK -- he's like the man. If you hit that, this whole country will be in mourning. It's like you can kill the man twice," one of the suspects said during a recorded phone conversation, officials said.
CNN

That's exactly what a 'terrorist' would say when planning this huge attack on American soil, that's what he would say to one of his 'terrorist buddies' over the phone, to his buddies, over the phone.

Exactly.


EXACT!

''Wow man...like...this would be like...so awesome....!''
Was the missing sentence.

Ze3ma Ze3ma.
Reply

Zulkiflim
06-02-2007, 09:27 PM
Originally Posted by Lina
:sl:

Yeah right.

"Anytime you hit Kennedy, it is the most hurtful thing to the United States. To hit John F. Kennedy, wow...they love JFK -- he's like the man. If you hit that, this whole country will be in mourning. It's like you can kill the man twice," one of the suspects said during a recorded phone conversation, officials said.
CNN

That's exactly what a 'terrorist' would say when planning this huge attack on American soil, that's what he would say to one of his 'terrorist buddies' over the phone, to his buddies, over the phone.

Exactly.


EXACT!

''Wow man...like...this would be like...so awesome....!''
Was the missing sentence.

Ze3ma Ze3ma.
Salaam,

That is soo funny,do people really talk that way?

But lets see,is there any entrapment going on..

Remmebr the last time they caught the 3 guys trying to attack an army base,,one of the poeple who COAXEd them were CIA spies..

So let see.

All this tell me that the US need a second Sep 11 to "awaken" american to support any idiocy that the Bush adminsitrtion has in its plans

Second,the war is expanding and hopefully people will realise that as long as you target other ,you will be target back..

BLOWBACk,,search google..
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Cognescenti
06-02-2007, 10:13 PM
Originally Posted by Zulkiflim
Salaam,

That is soo funny,do people really talk that way?

But lets see,is there any entrapment going on..

Remmebr the last time they caught the 3 guys trying to attack an army base,,one of the poeple who COAXEd them were CIA spies..

So let see.

All this tell me that the US need a second Sep 11 to "awaken" american to support any idiocy that the Bush adminsitrtion has in its plans

Second,the war is expanding and hopefully people will realise that as long as you target other ,you will be target back..

BLOWBACk,,search google..
Zulkifilm;

Your comments seem internally inconsistent. On the one hand, you immediately posit "entrapment" as an explanation...then you go on to say this is what the US should expect because of Bush's policies.

So which is it? Seems to me you cant have it both ways.

Also for the "stop calling it Islamic terrorism" crowd.....note that the words "Muslim" or "Islam" are not mentioned until the 12th sentence of the story and it is not in the headline at all..
Reply

England
06-02-2007, 10:20 PM
If charged they should be sent to Guantanamo Bay. Don't bother executing them.
Reply

Joe98
06-03-2007, 07:05 AM
Its a good thing they we caught in the early stages.

If they suceeded thousand of people could have been killed.

As it turns our nobody was killed. Inshallah!

-
Reply

Bittersteel
06-03-2007, 01:59 PM
As it turns our nobody was killed. Inshallah!
your attempt at a joke?
LIke you said it was a good thing they were caught.don't want to imagine what would have had happened if they succeeded.Woirldwide ban of Islam I guess.
Reply

Amadeus85
06-03-2007, 02:47 PM
They aimed to kill thousands

BY JOHN MARZULLI, JAMES GORDON MEEK, ALISON GENDAR AND ROBERT F. MOORE

DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS

Sunday, June 3rd 2007, 4:00 AM



Four extremists hatched a plot to blow up Kennedy Airport and swaths of Queens by attacking fuel tanks and an underground petroleum pipeline - in hopes of igniting a catastrophic explosion that would eclipse 9/11, authorities said yesterday.

One of the Muslim men, Russell Defreitas, a U.S. citizen who had worked for a cargo company at the airport, boasted to an informant that "he had a vision that would make the World Trade Center attack seem small," authorities said.

"The devastation that would be caused had this plot succeeded is just unthinkable," said Brooklyn U.S. Attorney Roslynn Mauskopf.

The ringleaders were identified as radicals with ties to Guyana and Trinidad and Tobago. Three suspects, including a former member of the Guyanese parliament, have been arrested. The fourth was still being sought.

Defreitas, 63, was busted at the Lindenwood Diner in Brooklyn late Friday. He allegedly told a federal informant that Kennedy Airport, which handles an average of 1,000 flights a day and 45 million passengers a year, was chosen because of its economic importance - and symbolic connection to the slain President.

"They [Americans] loved John F. Kennedy like he's the man. If you hit that, the whole country will be in mourning. It's like you can kill the man twice," he said, according to authorities.

The bearded defendant, wearing a knee-length, olive-green tunic with matching pants, looked tired and did not enter a plea yesterday during a brief appearance in Brooklyn Federal Court. A patch featuring the continent of Africa and a lion was sewn into one of his sleeves.

Prosecutor Jeffrey Knox called Defreitas the homegrown extremist behind the chilling terror plot whose goal was "to kill as many people as possible."

The group's original plan was to crash an airplane into other passenger jets on the ground at Kennedy "to create a catastrophic explosion," a source said.

When the suspects couldn't recruit enough co-conspirators, the source said, they came up with a new plan: to set off explosions at the airport's fuel farm, a series of storage tanks.

They also were targeting a massive fuel pipeline that runs 40 miles from Linden, N.J., through Staten Island, Brooklyn and Queens, providing fuel to JFK.

They hoped an assault on the so-called Buckeye pipeline - which carries 8 million gallons of jet fuel and refined petroleum into the city every day - would kill thousands by causing explosions throughout residential areas.

But the pipeline owner and experts said yesterday an explosion at one section of the artery would not cause a chain reaction.

Investigators said the cabal - which had ties to Jamaat al Muslimeen, an extremist Muslim group in Trinidad and Tobago - had not yet bought explosives but posed a credible threat. The suspects had taken video of the airport and obtained satellite photos using Google Earth software, authorities said.

The group "was very familiar with the airport and how to access secure areas," a source said.

The alleged plotters were identified as Defreitas, a divorced U.S. citizen originally from Guyana who lives in East New York, Brooklyn; Trinidadian national Kareem Ibrahim; Abdul Kadir, a former member of the parliament and former mayor of a city in Guyana, and Abdel Nur, also from Guyana.

Ibrahim and Kadir - who was photographed in 2005 meeting with Guyana's president - were in custody in Trinidad and Tobago. Authorities believe Nur is hiding in the Caribbean.

Kadir, who left his parliament position last year, has connections in Iran, where his son attended school, a counterterrorism official told the Daily News. He had code-named the plot "The Chicken Farm," authorities said.

"Defreitas provided the know-how about JFK. Kadir provided the contacts and possibility for financing," Mauskopf said. "It was a potentially deadly combination."

But any links to established terror networks were unclear.

"There are a couple of shadowy figures in the background," a source said. "Whether those Al Qaeda connections were real or not, we don't know."

At a meeting last year with an informant, Defreitas confided that "he had a vision that would make the World Trade Center attack seem small," the complaint said.

The suspects were under surveillance for a year before the arrests were made here and overseas.

"We had them on conspiracy long ago," a law enforcement source said, adding that the feds didn't move in more quickly because they wanted to see whether the probe targets had ties to Al Qaeda.

Defreitas, who was ordered held without bail yesterday, told an informant in January that he was motivated to attack Kennedy Airport because while working there years ago for Evergreen International Aviation, he saw missiles being shipped to Israel. He told the informant he believed the missiles would be used to kill Muslims, authorities said.

Defreitas "wanted to do something to get those *******s," apparently referring to Jews and the U.S., the criminal complaint said. He also allegedly said he had been taught to make bombs in Guyana.

Authorities decided to round up the suspects because some of them were expected to travel soon.

Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said the NYPD had conducted an in-depth survey of the 40-mile pipeline, and police helicopters and boats were closely patrolling the artery of fuel.

"We have to remain vigilant. ... If we learned anything from this latest plot, it's that they keep coming back to New York," Kelly said, adding that he and Mayor Bloomberg had been kept updated during the probe.

The investigation was conducted by the FBI, NYPD, Port Authority Police and U.S. Department of Homeland Security.

Kadir's wife, Isha, told The News in Guyana last night that her husband was arrested Friday as he boarded a flight from Trinidad to Venezuela. He had planned to pick up a visa in Caracas so he could travel to Iran for an Islamic conference, she said.

She admitted her family had been associated with the Jamaat al Muslimeen group in Trinidad about 20 years ago, shortly before its failed 1990 coup attempt.

But the mother of eight, who lives about 70 miles southeast of Guyana's capital, insisted, "At no time in our home do we ever think about bombing or doing anything to hurt the United States of America."
Reply

Keltoi
06-03-2007, 02:51 PM
Glad they stopped this plan, although their plan was probably not workable the intent was obviously there.
Reply

Cognescenti
06-03-2007, 05:01 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
Glad they stopped this plan, although their plan was probably not workable the intent was obviously there.
Yes..these guys appeared to be the "B-team". The "A-team" entered early retirement.
Reply

Zman
06-04-2007, 10:54 PM
:sl:Peace To All


Papers Portray Plot As More Talk Than Fiction

By MICHAEL POWELL and WILLIAM K. RASHBAUM
June 4, 2007
The New York Times

The plot as painted by law enforcement officials was cataclysmic: A home-grown Islamic terrorist had in mind detonating fuel storage tanks and pipelines and setting fire to Kennedy International Airport, not to mention a substantial swath of Queens.

“Had the plot been carried out, it could have resulted in unfathomable damage, deaths and destruction,” Roslynn R. Mauskopf, the United States attorney in Brooklyn, said in a news release that announced charges against four men. She added at a news conference, “The devastation that would be caused had this plot succeeded are just unthinkable.”

Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly then stepped to the lectern with a vision only a bit less grim.

“Once again, would-be terrorists have put New York City in their crosshairs,” he said. Mr. Kelly said a disaster had been averted.

But the criminal complaint filed by the federal authorities against the four defendants in the case...suggests a less than mature terror plan,
a proposed effort longer on evil intent than on operational capability.

(Ms. Mauskopf noted in her news release that the “public was never at risk” and told reporters that law enforcement “had stopped this plot long before it ever had a chance to be carried out.”)

At its heart was a 63-year-old retired airport cargo worker, Russell M. Defreitas, who the complaint says talked of his dreams of inflicting massive harm, but who appeared to possess little money, uncertain training and no known background in planning a terror attack.

...Some law enforcement officials and engineers also dismissed the notion that the planned attack could have resulted in a catastrophic chain reaction; system safeguards, they said, would have stopped explosions from spreading.

The complaint, filed in Federal District Court in Brooklyn, also suggests that at least two of the suspects had some ambivalence.

One of the men was game for bombing the airport but leery about killing masses of people, the complaint says. Another dropped out of the plot for a time to tend to his business.


...No one would second-guess the authorities for pursuing and arresting suspected plotters. An enduring lesson that the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, have taught prosecutors and the Federal Bureau of Investigation is the danger of inaction.

But as with many post-9/11 terror plots, the line between terrible aspiration and reality can get lost in a murky haze.

In case after case, from what authorities said was a dirty bomber to the Lackawanna Six, federal prosecutors hail arrests of terrorists and disruptions of what they describe as sinister plots.

But as these legal cases unfold, the true nature of the threats can come into question.


Ms. Mauskopf and Mr. Kelly declined yesterday to discuss their characterizations of the airport case...

Neal R. Sonnett, a defense lawyer and former federal prosecutor who was chief of the criminal division in the United States attorney’s office in Miami, congratulated the F.B.I. for fine police work in what was clearly “a prosecutable case.”

But he said: “There unfortunately has been a tendency to shout too loudly about such cases.”

“It has a bit of the gang that couldn’t shoot straight to it,” Mr. Sonnett said. “It would have served the federal government well to say that.”


The seeming gap between the rhetoric at Saturday’s news conference and the reality of the threat could reflect a change in approach among law enforcement officials.

...But the same papers give reason for doubt about the competence of the suspects. The details tend to suggest a distance between Mr. Defreitas’s dream and any nightmarish reality.

There is, too, the question of the role played by the unidentified undercover informant who befriended Mr. Defreitas.

The informant is a convicted drug trafficker, and his sentence is pending as part of his cooperation agreement with the federal government, said the authorities.


It was to this informant, according to the authorities, that Mr. Defreitas first confided his “vision that would make the World Trade Center attack seem small.”

The complaint notes that the defendant “did not discuss the details.”

...Another problem is that none of the suspects appears to have planned or carried out any previous attacks.

Nor do the men appear to possess relevant military training.

One defendant, Abdul Kadir, is said to have warned the others that the Islamists in Trinidad “had their own rules of engagement and wanted to minimize the killing of innocents such as women and children.”

He suggested an early-morning assault to take out buildings rather than people, the complaint says.

...But Mr. Sonnett, who also is a past president of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, noted that there is a broader risk in overstating the sophistication of a terror plot.

At a time when many Americans live in justified fear of an attack, the risk is that drumbeating creates a climate of fear and drives public policy.

“To the extent that you over-hype a case, you create fear and paranoia,” he said. “It’s very difficult for prosecutors and investigative agencies to remain calm.”

To Read The Complete Article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/04/ny...gewanted=print
Reply

Cognescenti
06-04-2007, 11:19 PM
Zaccarias Moussoui was part of a "gang that couldn't shoot straight".

The second wave of subway bombers had duds. The first wave didn't.

The idotic "pilot" of flight 73, when the plane was inverted (flying upside down) over the Pennsylvania countryside (as the passengers rushed the cabin hoping to kill the murdering sob and take control of the plane) pushed forward on the wheel trying to crash the plane. Normally, this would work, but because he wasn't a real pilot, he was too stupid to realize it would actually cause the plane to gain altitude. Guess,what, everyone died anyway.
Reply

nevesirth
06-04-2007, 11:27 PM
it wasnt really a threat, the media blew everything out of proportion. it was jst a plot or maybe even an idea who knws. its all a propaganda by the west to instill fear in the minds of innocent pple. wht was the motive of the so called suspects????????????
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Umar001
06-04-2007, 11:28 PM
When I read stories like these it makes me wonder what non Muslims think. Alot of people seem, keyword seem, to think the majority of Muslims, are sitting comfortable, like they insured, as if these things don't worry them so they can take extra burden of abuse, not anyone here I just mean on the street.

What occours to me, specially as when I was a new Muslim is that in reality it seems like Muslims in the Western areas lose out the most from these attacks.

On one hand they have somewhat extreme muslims who will kill them alongside others, I mean Muslims have died in these attacks, so I cant get on the bus without worrying about the next guy with a big luggage, just like a non Muslim might do.

Then on the other hand, I have been pushed aside by some of the community because I am 'one of them' as if I affiliate with etremist. So I am treated with doubt, looked and frowned upon when I get on a bus and so forth all because of these attacks.

So I go through the worries of the Non Muslims, plus the worries of a Muslim.

Anyone ever looked at it like that? Am pretty curious if it's only me.
Reply

wilberhum
06-04-2007, 11:34 PM
I'm sure if thoes that did 7/7 was caught on 7/6, there would be people here who would want to play it down.
Why would anyone want to defend or play down those who want to do great evil.
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Keltoi
06-04-2007, 11:36 PM
Originally Posted by Al Habeshi
When I read stories like these it makes me wonder what non Muslims think. Alot of people seem, keyword seem, to think the majority of Muslims, are sitting comfortable, like they insured, as if these things don't worry them so they can take extra burden of abuse, not anyone here I just mean on the street.

What occours to me, specially as when I was a new Muslim is that in reality it seems like Muslims in the Western areas lose out the most from these attacks.

On one hand they have somewhat extreme muslims who will kill them alongside others, I mean Muslims have died in these attacks, so I cant get on the bus without worrying about the next guy with a big luggage, just like a non Muslim might do.

Then on the other hand, I have been pushed aside by some of the community because I am 'one of them' as if I affiliate with etremist. So I am treated with doubt, looked and frowned upon when I get on a bus and so forth all because of these attacks.

So I go through the worries of the Non Muslims, plus the worries of a Muslim.

Anyone ever looked at it like that? Am pretty curious if it's only me.
That is an interesting perspective. It is very true that Muslims living in the West do carry an extra burden, because the non-Muslims there in large measure do not trust them. So the extremists are doing alot of damage to non-Muslims and Muslims alike. I think the non-Muslims on this forum should take into account that some of the posts by Muslims that seem to justify and support extremism are a minority on the forum and an even larger minority in the real world.
Reply

Zman
06-04-2007, 11:43 PM
:sl:

Alleged Plot's Damage Would Have Been Limited

Jet fuel doesn't explode easily, experts say, and fire would not have spread along airport pipelines.


By Megan Garvey
Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
June 3, 2007

Complete Article:
http://fairuse.100webcustomers.com/f...atimesA29.html
Reply

Keltoi
06-04-2007, 11:43 PM
Originally Posted by Zman
:sl:


Yes, we know the plan was stupid. It is the intent that is the problem.
Reply

wilberhum
06-04-2007, 11:47 PM
Originally Posted by Zman
:sl:


So does that make it OK? Why do you defend thoes that want to kill your country men?
Reply

Zman
06-05-2007, 12:10 AM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
So does that make it OK? Why do you defend thoes that want to kill your country men?

You really should choose your words wisely. Unless, you are doing this deliberately.

How many people at school or at the workplace have utterd violent words of wanting to hurt, beat up, kill, destroy, blow up people or places over many reasons? yet, people take that with a grain of salt.

If people were arrested over every benign act they intended to commit, Just for speaking them, there would be no one free.

I never defended their action. But I do know how to use my mind and Judge for myself and not regurgitate everything that is fed to me by the government, media and law enforcement officials who are seeking media attention or a feather in their caps for a possible future political career or an internal promotion.

Like the NY Times article stated, many of the governments initial high profile terror cases are unravelling, due to lack of real evidence.

Let's not forget that there were no acts of terrorism committed.

There is nothing wrong with investigating and looking at this from several angles. Why must we have tunnel vision all the time?

Why are you accusing me of defending them? Why didn't you accuse the LA Times & NY Times of defending them?

Is it now a crime and a lack of patriotism to have an opposing view?

How is this different from what this member stated (and none of you gave him a slap on the wrist for daring to state his views:

A tortured soul who didn't even identify himself as Christian (though he might have been) drives his Saturn into a medical clinic and then lights it on fire. Nobody is hurt. Yes, I can see that is a threat which all Americans should put at the top of their list.

What, sir, is your point? Is the point that there exist kooks all over the world? If that is your point, I will stipulate that. Please feel free to continue posting your fascinating infromation, however.

Stated by: Cognescenti
Here:
http://www.islamicboard.com/754909-post15.html
The difference is, that guy actually committed a terrorist act. Dousing a car with gasoline, which would have made it into a bomb, and driving it into a clinic, with the intention of killing innocent civilians.

yet none of you questioned Cog's loyalty.

Why is that? Sounds like double standards...
Reply

Cognescenti
06-05-2007, 01:03 AM
Originally Posted by Zman
...
How many people at school or at the workplace have utterd violent words of wanting to hurt, beat up, kill, destroy, blow up people or places over many reasons? yet, people take that with a grain of salt.

If people were arrested over every benign act they intended to commit, Just for speaking them, there would be no one free.

I never defended their action. But I do know how to use my mind and Judge for myself and not regurgitate everything that is fed to me by the government, media and law enforcement officials who are seeking media attention or a feather in their caps for a possible future political career or an internal promotion.

Like the NY Times article stated, many of the governments initial high profile terror cases are unravelling, due to lack of real evidence.

Let's not forget that there were no acts of terrorism committed.

There is nothing wrong with investigating and looking at this from several angles. Why must we have tunnel vision all the time?

Why are you accusing me of defending them? Why didn't you accuse the LA Times & NY Times of defending them?

Is it now a crime and a lack of patriotism to have an opposing view?


Zman;

You may be shocked to know I actually agree with some of this. :) Evidently, these were not the sharpest arrows in the quiver. I don't believe for a second that they would have "killed thousands" as some have speculated. They would, had they been at least partially successful, at least killed a number of people, shut down the biggest airport in NY and interrupted a major gas pipeline for weeks. And they would have sown terror, which is the point after all. They might have cause a couple of hundred million dollars in economic damage. Not bad for amateurs.

UBL himself stated in an interview that he hoped the fire from the airliners would "melt the steel" in the twin towers. It didn't, but guess what, the building still fell down. Lucky for him, eh?

Let's not pretend either that these were a couple of guys just BS'ing about harming the US. They, according to the allegation, took videos and photos of the site, traveled to the Carribbean to meet with some radicals from a group who claim to be motivated by Religion X, and who were responsible for an attempted coup in South America that killed dozens.

How is this different from what this member stated (and none of you gave him a slap on the wrist for daring to state his views:


The difference is, that guy actually committed a terrorist act. Dousing a car with gasoline, which would have made it into a bomb, and driving it into a clinic, with the intention of killing innocent civilians.

yet none of you questioned Cog's loyalty.

Why is that? Sounds like double standards...
:? I wish to state unreservedly that I have never owned a Saturn and have never belonged to the Saturn Owners of America. I unequivocally denounce the use of Saturn automobiles, period...even for driving. I don't even like the things. They are bereft of style and underpowered.
Reply

wilberhum
06-05-2007, 12:45 PM
Zman
Why do you defend those that want to kill your country men?
The question remains. Unless you just think it is OK to plan to kill many, as long as those plans won't work.
Reply

Muezzin
06-05-2007, 01:52 PM
Yeah, um, guys, can we take the focus away from individual members such as Zman and Cognescenti, and move it back to the actual topic itself? Ta.
Reply

Zman
06-05-2007, 02:43 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
Yeah, um, guys, can we take the focus away from individual members such as Zman and Cognescenti, and move it back to the actual topic itself? Ta.
:sl:

You bet. My apology to you and Cog...
Reply

MTAFFI
06-05-2007, 03:08 PM
Originally Posted by Al Habeshi
When I read stories like these it makes me wonder what non Muslims think. Alot of people seem, keyword seem, to think the majority of Muslims, are sitting comfortable, like they insured, as if these things don't worry them so they can take extra burden of abuse, not anyone here I just mean on the street.

What occours to me, specially as when I was a new Muslim is that in reality it seems like Muslims in the Western areas lose out the most from these attacks.

On one hand they have somewhat extreme muslims who will kill them alongside others, I mean Muslims have died in these attacks, so I cant get on the bus without worrying about the next guy with a big luggage, just like a non Muslim might do.

Then on the other hand, I have been pushed aside by some of the community because I am 'one of them' as if I affiliate with etremist. So I am treated with doubt, looked and frowned upon when I get on a bus and so forth all because of these attacks.

So I go through the worries of the Non Muslims, plus the worries of a Muslim.

Anyone ever looked at it like that? Am pretty curious if it's only me.
Al Habeshi
I would like to congratulate you for pointing out something very specifically that I dont think anyone has ever put on this board. I very much understand your frustration with both extreme Muslims and non muslims, and I am sorry about how uncomfortable that must make you feel at times. It really is not right that because of the actions of some everyone of a particular race or religion gets scrutinized. I am guilty of doing it myself from time to time, and I apologize.

Originally Posted by Zman
How many people at school or at the workplace have utterd violent words of wanting to hurt, beat up, kill, destroy, blow up people or places over many reasons? yet, people take that with a grain of salt.
It is one thing to wish to hurt of beat up someone, I think everyone is guilty of that from time to time, however I know that I have never tried to sit down and plot on how to kill, destroy or blow up anyone ever much less an airport full of people. I do not believe that a plot like this should be taken with a grain of salt at all. What would you think if someone was caught with plans to kill destroy and blow up Mecca? Would you want those plotting such a heinous act to be "taken with a grain of salt"?

Originally Posted by Zman
If people were arrested over every benign act they intended to commit, Just for speaking them, there would be no one free.
Anyone plotting an act of this magnitude, should be put to death for conspiracy to commit murder, terrorism or otherwise, and they typically are.
Originally Posted by Zman
I never defended their action. But I do know how to use my mind and Judge for myself and not regurgitate everything that is fed to me by the government, media and law enforcement officials who are seeking media attention or a feather in their caps for a possible future political career or an internal promotion.
Who would be getting a political career out of this? It is good to judge things for yourself, but to contradict everything that may reflect negatively on a certain people or religion and write it off as a conspiracy or otherwise, is called DENIAL.

Originally Posted by Zman
Let's not forget that there were no acts of terrorism committed.
That is because they were stopped before executed... If they had been commited then would you speak out against them? Or would you say that we are just at war and this should be expected?

Originally Posted by Zman
There is nothing wrong with investigating and looking at this from several angles. Why must we have tunnel vision all the time?
Nothing wrong with investigation

Originally Posted by Zman
Why are you accusing me of defending them? Why didn't you accuse the LA Times & NY Times of defending them?
Nothing wrong with your article, it presents solid facts and opinions

Originally Posted by Zman
Is it now a crime and a lack of patriotism to have an opposing view?
An opposing view on what? On that these people where actually conspiring to commit these acts or that they wouldnt have been that harmful? Regardless I think what shows your lack of patriotism is the fact that rather than say "OK these guys are out of their mind and are damaging the face of Islam, even though the act was prevented", you would rather say nothing and try to play the incident down. Just say it was wrong of them to do, and it is unislamic and God Bless America...lol
Reply

Zman
06-05-2007, 03:52 PM
:sl:/Peace To All


How To Foil A Terrorist Plot In 7 Simple Steps

By Nora Ephron BIO
Posted June 4, 2007
12:04 AM (EST)

1. In order to foil a terrorist plot, you must first find a terrorist plot. This is not easy.

2. Not just anyone can find and then foil a terrorist plot. You must have an incentive.

The best incentive is to be an accused felon, looking at a long prison term. Under such circumstances, your lawyer will explain to you, you may be able to reduce your sentence by acting as an informant in a criminal case, preferably one involving terrorists.

3. The fact that you do not know any actual terrorists should not in any way deter you.

Necessity is the mother of invention: if you can find the right raw material -- a sad, sick, lonely, drunk, deranged, disgruntled or just plain anti-American Muslim somewhere in the United States -- you can make your very own terrorist.

4. Now the good part begins. Money!

The FBI will give you lots of money to take your very own terrorist out to lots of dinners where you, wearing a wire, can record yourself making recommendations to him about possible targets and weapons that might be used in the impending terrorist attack that your very own terrorist is going to mastermind, with your help.

It will even buy you a computer so you can go to Google Earth in order to show your very own terrorist a "top secret" aerial image of the target you have suggested.

5. More money!!

The FBI will give you even more money to travel to foreign countries with your very own terrorist, and it will make suggestions about terrorist groups you can meet while in said foreign countries.

6. Months and even years will pass in this fashion, while you essentially get the FBI to pay for everything you do.

(Incidentally, be sure your lawyer negotiates your expense account well in advance, or you may be forced -- as the informant was in the Buffalo terrorist case -- to protest your inadequate remuneration by setting yourself on fire in front of the White House.)

7. At a certain point, something will go wrong.

You may have trouble recruiting other people to collaborate with your very own terrorist, who is, as you yourself know, just an ordinary guy in a really bad mood.

Or, alternatively, the terrorist cell you have carefully cobbled together may malfunction and fail to move forward -- probably as a result of sheer incompetence or of simply not having been genuinely serious about the acts of terrorism you were urging it to commit.

At this point, you may worry that the FBI is going to realize that there isn't much of a terrorist plot going on here at all, just a case of entrapment.

Do not despair: the FBI is way ahead of you.

The FBI knows perfectly well what's going on. The FBI has as much at stake as you do.

So before it can be obvious to the world that there's no case, the FBI will arrest your very own terrorist, hold a press conference and announce that a huge terrorist plot has been foiled.

It will of course be forced to admit that this plot did not proceed beyond the pre-planning stage, that no actual weapons or money were involved, and that the plot itself was "not technically feasible," but that will not stop the story from becoming a front-page episode all over America and, within hours, boilerplate for all the Republican politicians who believe that you need to arrest a "homegrown" terrorist now and then to justify the continuing war in Iraq.

Everyone will be happy, except for the schmuck you shmikeled into becoming a terrorist, and no one really cares about him anyway.

So congratulations. You have foiled a terrorist plot. Way to go.

Source:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nora-e...p_b_50474.html
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MTAFFI
06-05-2007, 04:25 PM
How To Be Counterproductive And Derail Threads In One Easy Step!

1) Do Exactly As Zman:d
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