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islamirama
06-03-2007, 05:08 PM
What's interesting about this is the fact that he is quoting Jewish scripture to defend hisd evil comments, and the fact that this man is the former Chief Rabbi in Israel, which means what he is advocating represents the views of a significant population of Israeli Jews. Notice also in the 5th paragraph he explains how the life of a non-Jew is not equal to that of a Jew. This is an opinion found in the Jewish Talmud as well.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull

Eliyahu advocates carpet bombing Gaza

All civilians living in Gaza are collectively guilty for Kassam attacks on Sderot, former Sephardi chief rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu has written in a letter to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.

Eliyahu ruled that there was absolutely no moral prohibition against the indiscriminate killing of civilians during a potential massive military offensive on Gaza aimed at stopping the rocket launchings.

The letter, published in Olam Katan [Small World], a weekly pamphlet to be distributed in synagogues nationwide this Friday, cited the biblical story of the Shechem massacre (Genesis 34) and Maimonides' commentary (Laws of Kings 9, 14) on the story as proof texts for his legal decision.

According to Jewish war ethics, wrote Eliyahu, an entire city holds collective responsibility for the immoral behavior of individuals
. In Gaza, the entire populace is responsible because they do nothing to stop the firing of Kassam rockets.

The former chief rabbi also said it was forbidden to risk the lives of Jews in Sderot or the lives of IDF soldiers for fear of injuring or killing Palestinian noncombatants living in Gaza.

Eliyahu could not be reached for an interview. However, Eliyahu's son, Shmuel Eliyahu, who is chief rabbi of Safed, said his father opposed a ground troop incursion into Gaza that would endanger IDF soldiers. Rather, he advocated carpet bombing the general area from which the Kassams were launched, regardless of the price in Palestinian life.

"If they don't stop after we kill 100, then we must kill a thousand," said Shmuel Eliyahu. "And if they do not stop after 1,000 then we must kill 10,000. If they still don't stop we must kill 100,000, even a million. Whatever it takes to make them stop."

In the letter, Eliyahu quoted from Psalms. "I will pursue my enemies and apprehend them and I will not desist until I have eradicated them."

Eliyahu wrote that "This is a message to all leaders of the Jewish people not to be compassionate with those who shoot [rockets] at civilians in their houses."

What about all who shoot, bomb, bulldaze and massaccre civilian palestinians in their houses?
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islamirama
06-05-2007, 03:14 PM
the zionists defenders have nothing to say on this?
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- Qatada -
06-05-2007, 03:19 PM
:salamext:


Subhaan Allaah this is amazing..
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MTAFFI
06-05-2007, 03:27 PM
wow... he is no better than those he is speaking against. It really does show just how extreme that region is becoming. Lets just hope and pray that not everyone feels as he does...


(there was a thread a while back, I am not sure which, but I said that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict was heading in this direction)
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Cognescenti
06-05-2007, 03:35 PM
Collective punishment is a recognized war crime.
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Amadeus85
06-05-2007, 04:54 PM
This Rabbis is no better than Hamas or Islamic Jihad. Hamas and Islamic Jihad are no better than him.
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- Qatada -
06-05-2007, 05:00 PM
One of the biggest causes for concerns is the fact that he actually called for it using his religious texts.. even if it meant destroying a whole nation of people. So the people wouldn't mind going ahead with that since they knew it was part of their religion.
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Fishman
06-05-2007, 05:00 PM
:sl:
The US should arrest him for inciting terrorism, but they will probably be hypocrites and use the old 'its not in our intrests' excuse. They'll protect themselves and their allies but not the world...
:w:
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Cognescenti
06-05-2007, 05:09 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
One of the biggest causes for concerns is the fact that he actually called for it using his religious texts.. even if it meant destroying a whole nation of people. So the people wouldn't mind going ahead with that since they knew it was part of their religion.
I agree, he seems a nutjob.
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Amadeus85
06-05-2007, 05:10 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
The US should arrest him for inciting terrorism, but they will probably be hypocrites and use the old 'its not in our intrests' excuse. They'll protect themselves and their allies but not the world...
:w:
So US should also arrest all Arabs in Israel who support Hamas, Hesbullah, Islamic Jihad and Al Aqsa Brigades.
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- Qatada -
06-05-2007, 05:11 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
So US should also arrest all Arabs in Israel who support Hamas, Hesbullah, Islamic Jihad and Al Aqsa Brigades.

Brother fishman was talking about the arrest of the man who incited this :) not the ones who supported him.
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Cognescenti
06-05-2007, 05:11 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
The US should arrest him for inciting terrorism, but they will probably be hypocrites and use the old 'its not in our intrests' excuse. They'll protect themselves and their allies but not the world...
:w:
Can you name one single person who has been inducted for terrorism under US law purely for inflammatory language?
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Fishman
06-05-2007, 05:15 PM
Originally Posted by Cognescenti
Can you name one single person who has been inducted for terrorism under US law purely for inflammatory language?
:sl:
There have been plenty of people in Britain who have been extradiated by Americans for supporting terrorism. Why should this guy be any different? In fact, his crime is worse, since he is a highly infulential political leader.
:w:
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Fishman
06-05-2007, 05:16 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
So US should also arrest all Arabs in Israel who support Hamas, Hesbullah, Islamic Jihad and Al Aqsa Brigades.
:sl:
No, but they should arrest their leaders. I don't distinguish between terrorists and mass murderers based on religion.
:w:
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Cognescenti
06-05-2007, 05:18 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
There have been plenty of people in Britain who have been extradiated by Americans for supporting terrorism. Why should this guy be any different? In fact, his crime is worse, since he is a highly infulential political leader.
:w:
I ask again. Please name one single individual indicted for terrorism under American law purely for inflammatroy speech. Just one. I am not talking about fundraising...I am talking about a protected First Amendment right.
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Fishman
06-05-2007, 05:20 PM
Originally Posted by Cognescenti
I ask again. Please name one single individual indicted for terrorism under American law purely for inflammatroy speech. Just one. I am not talking about fundraising...I am talking about a protected First Amendment right.
:sl:
Babar Ahmad. He allegedly set up pro-terror websites in the UK, and is either awaiting extradition or has alreadly been taken to America.
:w:
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Cognescenti
06-05-2007, 05:45 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
Babar Ahmad. He allegedly set up pro-terror websites in the UK, and is either awaiting extradition or has alreadly been taken to America.
:w:
He is alleged to have recruited fighters and donations for terror organizations using websites he maintained with aliases. He wasn't indicted for a blog where he said "UBL is a cool dude"
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Fishman
06-05-2007, 05:49 PM
Originally Posted by Cognescenti
He is alleged to have recruited fighters and donations for terror organizations using websites he maintained with aliases. He wasn't indicted for a blog where he said "UBL is a cool dude"
:sl:
This former Chief Rabbi is attempting to 'recruit' Ehud Olmert to his cause.
:w:
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Cognescenti
06-05-2007, 06:03 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
This former Chief Rabbi is attempting to 'recruit' Ehud Olmert to his cause.
:w:
That is a bit of a stretch isn't it? Not to be too arcane, but I think he would have to conspire to create an act of terror on an American interest or ctizen for the US to claim jurisdiction. Spain and The Netherlands have such laws, I think. Maybe you can talk them into it. Your claim of US hypocricy doesn't work in this case. :)
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MTAFFI
06-05-2007, 06:27 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
One of the biggest causes for concerns is the fact that he actually called for it using his religious texts.. even if it meant destroying a whole nation of people. So the people wouldn't mind going ahead with that since they knew it was part of their religion.
YES that is a bit scary isnt it? Just think if this manifested into the destruction of something represented the history and power of the Muslim world. Look at how quickly Muslims on this board immediately affiliate Israel and the US and Europe with this one mans words.

What is funny about that is how quickly these same people are to call the people of the US names for doing the exact same with OBL
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Fishman
06-05-2007, 06:33 PM
Originally Posted by MTAFFI
YES that is a bit scary isnt it? Just think if this manifested into the destruction of something represented the history and power of the Muslim world. Look at how quickly Muslims on this board immediately affiliate Israel and the US and Europe with this one mans words.
:sl:
I never affilitated him with the USA, I merely accused the USA of only caring about things if its in their intrests. Remember Rwanda? Thousands of people were brutally murdered and the USA did nothing because it wasn't in their intrests.

What is funny about that is how quickly these same people are to call the people of the US names for doing the exact same with OBL
I don't disagree with the US' hatred for Osama bin Laden, he's at least as bad as anything the Israelis have produced. If I became PM I would still try to arrest him and any of his crazed supporters.
:w:
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MTAFFI
06-05-2007, 06:54 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
I never affilitated him with the USA, I merely accused the USA of only caring about things if its in their intrests. Remember Rwanda? Thousands of people were brutally murdered and the USA did nothing because it wasn't in their intrests.
Hello Fishman! (what a strange name...lol)
I wasnt referring to you specifically, I was just speaking in general, so I apologize, I was not wanting to name names or be too specific. Anyways though as to your comment about the US only caring about things that suit their interests. In many cases you are correct, Chechnya would be another great example, however this is a double edged sword, when we do help we are condemned as terrorist or pirates of some sort, when we dont we are accused of not doing enough... How do we know when to act? It is a tough decision to make, obviously we cant involve ourselves in everything, personally I would rather not involve ourselves with anything. There are also incidents of the US involving themselves in things that were not at all self serving, such as the many humanitarian aid programs, the fact that the US is the leading country as far as providing medicine, financial aid and other methods to bring 3rd world countries plagued with aids and other diseases into this century. That is not at all self serving, wouldnt you agree?

Originally Posted by Fishman
:
I don't disagree with the US' hatred for Osama bin Laden, he's at least as bad as anything the Israelis have produced. If I became PM I would still try to arrest him and any of his crazed supporters.
:w:
I am glad that you say this, rather than making excuses for him as so many do on this board. OBL and the original guy mentioned in the thread and many others should be considered as enemies to the world, not just the group of people they threaten. As far as I am concerned, they should all be put to death and let God deal with them.
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wilberhum
06-05-2007, 06:56 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
I never affilitated him with the USA, I merely accused the USA of only caring about things if its in their intrests. Remember Rwanda? Thousands of people were brutally murdered and the USA did nothing because it wasn't in their intrests.
I find it quite off that every time we intervene, we are told to mind our own business. If we don't we are the bad guys. :skeleton:
I don't disagree with the US' hatred for Osama bin Laden, he's at least as bad as anything the Israelis have produced. If I became PM I would still try to arrest him and any of his crazed supporters.
Because you don't think Osama bin Laden is the worst man on earth, we should just say "oh gash, he didn't kill too many, just forget it". :?
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islamirama
06-05-2007, 07:33 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
I find it quite off that every time we intervene, we are told to mind our own business. If we don't we are the bad guys. :skeleton:
Christian serbs commited genocide agains the ablanian muslims, the kosovo muslims, and (one more, can't recall). What di the west do? mute as a mule, the world stood silent quitely. When mujahideens came to kick some but, then NATO bigots send their troops in to "Help" by bombing everything. Yea, we can see what kind of intervention the kuffars do.

Because you don't think Osama bin Laden is the worst man on earth, we should just say "oh gash, he didn't kill too many, just forget it". :?
Worst men on earth are in israel and US. Bush dummy and bush daddy alone killed more Muslims than anyone today. Daddy killed over 1 mililon chidren by starvation, dumb brat kills over 700,000 iraqis and thousands in somali and afghan and any other place they can find to drop bombs. Sharon was elected PM, was called national hero and he massacred two refuge camps in cold blood. Yea we know whose peaceful around here alright.
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MTAFFI
06-05-2007, 07:50 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
Christian serbs commited genocide agains the ablanian muslims, the kosovo muslims, and (one more, can't recall). What di the west do? mute as a mule, the world stood silent quitely. When mujahideens came to kick some but, then NATO bigots send their troops in to "Help" by bombing everything. Yea, we can see what kind of intervention the kuffars do.



Worst men on earth are in israel and US. Bush dummy and bush daddy alone killed more Muslims than anyone today. Daddy killed over 1 mililon chidren by starvation, dumb brat kills over 700,000 iraqis and thousands in somali and afghan and any other place they can find to drop bombs. Sharon was elected PM, was called national hero and he massacred two refuge camps in cold blood. Yea we know whose peaceful around here alright.
Basically because no one responded to his original post with support for this maniac, this kid will now resort to this common tactic to incite a heated argument and name calling. Bush has nothing to do with this, his dad has nothing to do with this, Israel has nothing to do with this, US has nothing to do with this, Christian serbs have nothing to do with this, NATO has nothing to do with this. Basically you are derailing your own thread, you are truly a hatefilled human being. You are no better than those you constantly accuse of warmongering and bigotry. You are no better than the man you posted this thread about, there are you happy? :rollseyes

(now i will report your post and hopefully this one and yours will be removed)
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wilberhum
06-05-2007, 07:55 PM
islamirama
You did an excellent job of confirming what I stated. :thumbs_up
As for a response, MTAFFI did a great job.
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Muezzin
06-05-2007, 08:01 PM
Okey-dokey. Shall we get back to what this Rabbi chap said then? That is, after all, the subject matter of this here thread.

I think people have had a chance to let off steam, but any more off-topic posts will be deleted.
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MTAFFI
06-05-2007, 08:25 PM
I did a little googling on this guy, wikipedia has an interesting write up on this guy as well

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordechai_Eliyahu

apparently he also called the tsunami in sri lanka an act of God punishing those poor people. Judging by this guys past and his radical comments, I sure hope that he is not someone who Jews look to for a lot of world affairs guidance. It appears that he is much like those he hates...(I think I may have already said that:? )
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wilberhum
06-05-2007, 08:32 PM
One usually finds what they want in religion.
If they want love, they find it.
If they want help, they find it.
If they want hate, they find it.
Etc.. Etc..
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- Qatada -
06-05-2007, 08:34 PM
Originally Posted by MTAFFI
It appears that he is much like those he hates...

In the article which bro islamirama posted, the jewish rabbi said they would be prepared to kill millions of palestinians right? I hope you don't mean that he is like ALL the palestinians? (i.e. that they are all evil?)
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rav
06-05-2007, 08:48 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
In the article which bro islamirama posted, the jewish rabbi said they would be prepared to kill millions of palestinians right? I hope you don't mean that he is like ALL the palestinians? (i.e. that they are all evil?)
Alright, I will obviously have to bring this into context for you all, and before I do, in no way am I condoning such a statement.

This Rabbi has many political enemies, so Jewish sources may not always be the best to get it from either, however, from my understanding of what the Rabbi said, was the analogy that if The state of Israel by rockets was ever threatened to be destroyed such as by a nuclear bomb or deadly gas bombs etc, than it would be okay by religious law to destroy all the Palestinians before all the jews in Israel were killed.

So in effect what he is saying, is that If 100 people are at risk in israel by a bomb that will be launched, and 100 Palestinians are in a building where it is to be launched in two minutes, what should Israel do? Well his opinion is the terrorists know what they are doing launching from areas with a dense population, and Israel must protect its own citizens.

For example; If A Nuclear Weapon was launched from somewhere in New York city to Mecca, and you knew about it. As a Muslim, are you destroying New York City before the launch the bomb which destroys Mecca or do you sit there inactive? Now lets say that New York has already launched bombs into Mecca but none Nuclear, and now the Nuclear one is coming. If its either Mecca or New York, I have no doubt 99% of Muslims destroy all of NY to save there own.

Of course, this Rabbi's opinion is very extremist like, and being "Chief Rabbi" means nothing since the current Chief Rabbi is no more than a puppet, and is actually in no position to make any judgments in Jewish Law. Example: the current Chief Rabbi; Rabbi Metzger: Metzger has been seen as a controversial figure since his original election as Chief Rabbi. Many saw his election as having more to do with Israeli politics than religion. Metzger, who is not considered a halachic authority, is largely acquiescent to the rulings of Rabbi Yosef Shalom Eliashiv, a powerful figure in the Ashkenazi haredi community. Metzger is not recognised a posek and lacks the moral authority of his predecessor, Rabbi Yisrael Meir Lau. There is evidence suggesting that Metzger's election was orchestrated by Eliashiv, who wished to install a weak Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi as well as embarrass the NRP, whose candidate, Yaakov Ariel, had been expected to win the appointment.

But either way, I would expect Muslims to understand that in many cases you will have extremist clergy who urge to kill before seek peace. Islam has more than enough of them, and there is no denying Judaism has their fair share.
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MTAFFI
06-05-2007, 08:51 PM
Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
In the article which bro islamirama posted, the jewish rabbi said they would be prepared to kill millions of palestinians right? I hope you don't mean that he is like ALL the palestinians? (i.e. that they are all evil?)
no, of course not, I forget many times that on this forum you must be specific about such things, or they may be taken out of context. What I meant when I said "Those that he hates", I was the people that he says are launching the rockets every day and killing random people
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- Qatada -
06-05-2007, 08:53 PM
Originally Posted by MTAFFI
no, of course not, I forget many times that on this forum you must be specific about such things, or they may be taken out of context. What I meant when I said "Those that he hates", I was the people that he says are launching the rockets every day and killing random people

Thanks for the clarification, my intention wasn't to take it out of context, but it seemed that way from the post. However, you've clarified that so thankyou.

rav, thankyou too. I understand where you're coming from.



Regards.
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mariam.
06-07-2007, 01:00 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
This Rabbis is no better than Hamas or Islamic Jihad. Hamas and Islamic Jihad are no better than him.
are you serious? I don't know why you can't understand ...

does the resistant the same as colonized?

does the landowner the same as who violate this land?

don't said to me: "The problem is that Jews were first in Israel, not muslim arabs."

you can't judge us now after 3000 years .. and said to us:"you have to suffer jews faults and sins"

If they have the right to violate our land because of the history .. SO, what
a fair world it's.
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Abdihakim
06-09-2007, 09:23 PM
:sl:

god help us all.

:w:
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Abdihakim
06-09-2007, 09:25 PM
:sl:

The state of Israel by rockets was ever threatened to be destroyed such as by a nuclear bomb or deadly gas bombs etc, than it would be okay by religious law to destroy all the Palestinians before all the jews in Israel were killed.what if the palestinians are innocent?

:w:
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......
06-09-2007, 09:27 PM
i dont get it....stop what?
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Lina
06-09-2007, 11:26 PM
:sl:

What can we say?

The article says it all.

He'll get his, like any other who incites violence under the robe of hatred.

People who fight against imperialists and oppression, now that's another story.

Wa Allahu a'lam.
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barney
06-09-2007, 11:49 PM
Yeah, he's a nut. Same as the "anti-zionist" muslims who advocate killing jews.

He did say they would stop when Hamas stopped pounding rockets everywhere though.

I seriously doubt we shall see the Israeli Air Force doing a carpet bombing session though.
With one raid from every IAF attack jet in the current inventory it equates to 2,980,000 LBS of bombs. Then they go back and rearm. and come back with another near 3 million lbs.

It's a damm good job theyre using rubber bullets and handcuffs.
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sudais1
06-10-2007, 01:38 AM
Originally Posted by barney
Yeah, he's a nut. Same as the "anti-zionist" muslims who advocate killing jews.

He did say they would stop when Hamas stopped pounding rockets everywhere though.

Well Hamas is defending Palestine from the disgusting Israeli occupation and senseless killing
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barney
06-10-2007, 01:45 AM
Aye, senselessly killing Hamas leaders in cars.

Hamas defends palastine like a tiger by slaughtering their muslim opponents by the thousand and blowing up Israeli schoolbuses.

The suicide bomber's involved thought that the bus was a Merkerva Tank. Easy mistake really. Collateral damage honestly.
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Lina
06-10-2007, 12:26 PM
Originally Posted by barney
Aye, senselessly killing Hamas leaders in cars.

Hamas defends palastine like a tiger by slaughtering their muslim opponents by the thousand and blowing up Israeli schoolbuses.

The suicide bomber's involved thought that the bus was a Merkerva Tank. Easy mistake really. Collateral damage honestly.
Just like Isreali forces who shoot into residential areas and refugee camps.
Who are they fighthing against? children? women?

They have destroyed the infrastructure, thousands of palestinian homes.
They have made a normal life for palestinian civilians impossible.

And Allah knows best.
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rav
06-10-2007, 02:31 PM
Originally Posted by Lina
Just like Isreali forces who shoot into residential areas and refugee camps.
Who are they fighthing against? children? women?
Shalom Lina,

I would say that they are indeed fighting Palestinian militants who deliberately hide in the camps. For example, the situation in Lebanon right now; Palestinian militants are firing at Lebanese soldiers and are taking up positions in heavily civilian populated areas. It is called a “strategy”, by forcing your enemy to make a choice of killing a man who has killed a few innocent civilians, but having to possibly kill innocents that he hides behind. Militants who hide behind children are cowards and are the ones that have blood on their hands.

Well Hamas is defending Palestine from the disgusting Israeli occupation and senseless killing
By blowing up a pre-school, or firing rockets at an old ladies car?

What can we say?

The article says it all.
Obviously it does not Lina. I invite you to read my earlier post on the subject.
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Amadeus85
06-10-2007, 04:47 PM
The same hapenned in Lebanon during last war, Hesbullah deliberately placed missiles and rockets launchers on civilians' houses, because they knew that when Israel destroyes those houses, world will condemn it and will think that Israel deliberatelly attacks civilians.
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islamirama
06-10-2007, 05:13 PM
The U.S. wants Arab governments to fight their global war on Islaam and Muslims for them

This is exactly the same strategy and tactic the Jews and their Western allies used in 1948 to turn Arab governments against Al-Ikhwaan al-Muslimeen and other Mujahideen in Palestine who came from many Arab states to fight the Zionist occupation. The propaganda put fear in the hearts of Arab leaders that the battle-hardened Mujahideen will go back to topple their regimes. Al-Ikhwaan al-Muslimeen were winning battles against the Zionist Jews in 1948 Palestine when they were rounded up and taken to prisons in Egypt .

Why would an Islamic resistance group like al-Qaa3idah open fighting fronts in Arab states? This is the mother of the divide-and-conquer tactics to turn State against Citizens in the Muslim World! governments

Al-Qaa3idah has only been operating against invading foreign forces in occupied Muslim lands, in Afghanistan, Bosnia, Chechenya , Somalia and now Iraq. Al-Qa3idah may have targeted foreign military presence in Saudi Arabia because the Messenger of Allaah (salla Allaah 3alaihi wa sallam) forbade their presence in Jazeerat Al-3Arab.

Muslims have not attacked the U.S. or any Western country. They only want the West to stay out of Muslim affairs and away from Muslim lands. The West, however, wants to extinguish Islaam and suffocate Muslim voices of Islaa7 and Da3wah in the Muslim World. And when they could not do so thru installed puppet regimes, spreading of vice and Western loose misguided lifestyles, they resorted to direct military occupation.

They can never fight us on their own. It is always by pitting Muslims against each other. They use Muslim governments to suppress knowledge and practice of Islaam among citizens, Afghanis to conquer Afghanistan , Iraqis to invade Iraq and Somalis to bring Ethiopian occupation of Somalia! When will we ever learn?

The Saudi ambassador to Beirut did not care that at least four Saudis were among 27 good Muslims killed by Lebanese army under Christian command. By contrast, look how non-Muslims value the safety and lives of their citizens:

Iraqi-U.S. troops seek kidnapped Britons

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070530/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

Israel Hits Lebanon After Troops Snatched two Israeli soldiers
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1
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islamirama
06-10-2007, 05:15 PM
Is this Sabra and Shatella again? Are the Lebanese prepared for another massacre against Palestinian refuges? Will the world stand by and watch helplessly again?

This is not about a bank robbery as they claim. The Lebanese government was acting on a tip from the U.S. to arrest Muslim fighters preparing to go to Iraq and to Palestine for jihaad. This looks like part of the so-called war on "terrorism" (meaning Muslim Mujahideen)!

Where was the Bush Administration's support for Lebanon in July 2006? The U.S. stood by while Israel bombed Lebanon for over thirty days and even rejected International calls for Israel to stop genocidal bombing.

Now, they are sending military supplies only to fuel a civil war (divide-and-conquer) and create the necessary chaos that will enable them and the Israelis to conduct bombings, raids, assassinations and kidnappings of Islamic resistance leaders and fighters. Civil war in Lebanon will also distract from the ongoing genocide in Iraq and weakens Syria so it cannot give any assistance to Iran if it was attacked.



TEARS FOR LEBANON Justice for Lebanon
http://justice4lebanon.wordpress.com.../news-roundup/

Hezbollah backs Lebanon army in standoff
http://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/Dis...7052383311.xml

Protests in Lebanon refugee camps
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...5E054DF71E.htm

Crisis deepens as relief still not reaching besieged Palestinians
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article6933.shtml

Reagan in diary calls Israeli 82 attack on Lebanon ' Holocaust'

http://tearsforlebanon.wordpress.com...aust%E2%80%99/
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islamirama
06-10-2007, 05:19 PM
I"m posting these becuase as usual the kuffars here diverted the topic to against Muslims from the real topic, a jewish rabbi representing Israel calling for the death of 1 million arabs. A extremists and terrorist that is given air time and audience to call for hate. Why isn't he a terorrist suspect and shipped to gitmo? why isn't any kuffar condeming him? Are all kuffars hypocrites and double standard like their leaders?

Comments:

I didn't even know Lebanon had a "military"! Or, was it raised from the dead? Wow! What a military, if they have only been awakened during the Israeli invasion.

These cowards! Where was the Lebanese army when the Israelis invaded and bombed their country into rubble for more than 30 days? They are only brave against their own and especially against Muslims.

This is obviously a government and a military that only act on orders from Washington or Paris to protect their interests in the area. It is also obvious that this is part of the war on terrorism waged by the "King of Terrorism" ( U.S.A.) using the armed forces of many countries as extensions to their own military. It is no surprise after the praise and protection the current Lebanese government has been receiving from the West.

It has become justifiable to commit genocide against any group of humans so long as they fall under the banner of "al-Qa3idah". Why would Al-Absi tell the New Yourk Times that he was trying to spread al-Qaida's ideology and was training fighters inside the camp for attacks on other countries .

It is supposedly an international crime to bomb buildings and civilian structures!
Reply

Zman
06-10-2007, 06:19 PM
:sl:/Peace To All


"I Decided To Murder An Arab"

Tel Aviv Man Confesses To Murdering Arab Taxi Driver


By Roni Singer-Heruti,
Haaretz Correspondent
Last update - 23:02 14/05/2007
Haaretz

A recent immigrant from France residing in Tel Aviv confessed Monday to the murder of a 35-year-old Arab taxi driver, whose body was found in the city earlier in the day.

The body of the East Jerusalem man was discovered in an apartment on Yona Hanavi Street on Monday afternoon. His throat had been cut, and his body bore the signs of a severe attack.

A preliminary police investigation revealed that the dead man had been invited to the apartment by the 25-year-old Israeli, who also holds French citizenship.

Police were first alerted to the murder when officers from the traffic department noticed two men loitering in the center of Allenby Street in Tel Aviv, at approximately 4 P.M. Monday.

When the two, the suspect and his 21-year-old brother, were detained for routine questioning, the 25-year-old confessed to having killed the cab driver in his apartment, and led police to the scene of the crime.

The motive behind the murder seems to be nationalistic, as the suspect said that he had killed the taxi driver over his Arab nationality.

Neighbors said that the suspect had recently become religious and would regularly attend a local synagogue.

Following the suspect's confession, police asked him to lead them to the apartment. "When he opened the door we found the body of a man. I immediately turned around and handcuffed him," said one of the arresting policemen.

...The initial investigation revealed that victim's throat had been slit, and that he was a taxi driver. His cab was found parked outside the building on Yona Hanavi St.

...It became clear from the beginning of the investigation that murderer and victim had no prior relationship.

The victim turned out to be an Arab from East Jerusalem, and the suspect is a young Jewish man who recently became religious.

For this reason we suspected that there was a nationalist motive behind the murder," said the head of investigations at Yarkon District Police.

The suspect and his brother were then taken to a police station for questioning, and it became evident to investigators that the murder was premeditated.

"I decided to murder an Arab,"
the suspect told police.


"We understand that [the suspect] arrived in Jerusalem with the objective of killing an Arab. We don't know if he made his plans two hours or two weeks before the murder, but there is definitely evidence that there was planning and thought behind it," said Commander of Yarkon District Police Brig. Gen. Hagai Dotan.

"When they arrived at the apartment in Tel Aviv, the suspect shrewdly persuaded the victim to go up the apartment," an investigating officer said. Once in the apartment, the suspect attacked the victim with a knife and stabbed him to death. It seems that the had been prepared ahead of time. The suspect rented the apartment on Yona Hanavi St. two months ago. He had been living there with his wife, who seems to have left at some point.

MK Ahmed Tibi (Ra`am-Ta`al) said in response to the murder that "an atmosphere of incitement, hatred of Arabs, and the escalating racism in the country are fertile soil for this crime," and added that " the court will probably find mitigating circumstances for the murderers."

Source:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/859447.html
Reply

rav
06-10-2007, 07:35 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
I"m posting these becuase as usual the kuffars here diverted the topic from against Muslims the real topic, a jewish rabbi representing Israel calling for the death of 1 million arabs. A extremists and terrorist that is given air time and audience to call for hate. Why isn't he a terorrist suspect and shipped to gitmo? why isn't any kuffar condeming him? Are all kuffars hypocrites and double standard like their leaders?
The thing is that we do condemn them. The only people trying to justify violence becaise of violence is you and few other Muslims.

Read my post, I explained what happend with the Rabbi, yet your ignorance refuses to even respond or think that you may not have the entire story. It is you being naive.

This was my post:

This Rabbi has many political enemies, so Jewish sources may not always be the best to get it from either, however, from my understanding of what the Rabbi said, was the analogy that if The state of Israel by rockets was ever threatened to be destroyed such as by a nuclear bomb or deadly gas bombs etc, than it would be okay by religious law to destroy all the Palestinians before all the jews in Israel were killed.

So in effect what he is saying, is that If 100 people are at risk in israel by a bomb that will be launched, and 100 Palestinians are in a building where it is to be launched in two minutes, what should Israel do? Well his opinion is the terrorists know what they are doing launching from areas with a dense population, and Israel must protect its own citizens.

For example; If A Nuclear Weapon was launched from somewhere in New York city to Mecca, and you knew about it. As a Muslim, are you destroying New York City before the launch the bomb which destroys Mecca or do you sit there inactive? Now lets say that New York has already launched bombs into Mecca but none Nuclear, and now the Nuclear one is coming. If its either Mecca or New York, I have no doubt 99% of Muslims destroy all of NY to save there own.

Of course, this Rabbi's opinion is very extremist like, and being "Chief Rabbi" means nothing since the current Chief Rabbi is no more than a puppet, and is actually in no position to make any judgments in Jewish Law. Example: the current Chief Rabbi; Rabbi Metzger: Metzger has been seen as a controversial figure since his original election as Chief Rabbi. Many saw his election as having more to do with Israeli politics than religion. Metzger, who is not considered a halachic authority, is largely acquiescent to the rulings of Rabbi Yosef Shalom Eliashiv, a powerful figure in the Ashkenazi haredi community. Metzger is not recognised a posek and lacks the moral authority of his predecessor, Rabbi Yisrael Meir Lau. There is evidence suggesting that Metzger's election was orchestrated by Eliashiv, who wished to install a weak Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi as well as embarrass the NRP, whose candidate, Yaakov Ariel, had been expected to win the appointment.

But either way, I would expect Muslims to understand that in many cases you will have extremist clergy who urge to kill before seek peace. Islam has more than enough of them, and there is no denying Judaism has their fair share.


"I Decided To Murder An Arab"

Tel Aviv Man Confesses To Murdering Arab Taxi Driver
When did any Jew ever say Jewish people do not Murder? One man does not represent every Jew.

Arabs have murdered Jews as well, yet who says all Arabs are murderers?

This is exactly the same strategy and tactic the Jews and their Western allies used in 1948 to turn Arab governments against Al-Ikhwaan al-Muslimeen and other Mujahideen in Palestine who came from many Arab states to fight the Zionist occupation.
I'm sorry but I had to laugh. All the Arab goverments were attacking Israel in 1948, all the "Muslimeen" were coming from all over the Arab world, and instead of killing every Jew in the land, you were utterly defeated. Talk about historical revisionism.
Reply

islamirama
06-10-2007, 07:51 PM
Originally Posted by rav
I'm sorry but I had to laugh. All the Arab goverments were attacking Israel in 1948, all the "Muslimeen" were coming from all over the Arab world, and instead of killing every Jew in the land, you were utterly defeated. Talk about historical revisionism.
They had every right to do that and still do today. When a nation is being taken over and divided up to create room for outsiders against the will of that nation of people than it is nothing less than an occupation and crime. The Muslimeen came from a few arab nations who attacked, who were poorly equiped from a dieing ottomon empire. There are no "Muslimeen coming from all over the world" as you or ignorantly state. And the reason they were defeated was thanks to US shipping state of the art weapons, planes, and tanks among other stuff to fight. Even monkeys can become king of the jungle if you give them guns.
Reply

Lina
06-10-2007, 08:41 PM
Originally Posted by rav
Shalom Lina,

I would say that they are indeed fighting Palestinian militants who deliberately hide in the camps. For example, the situation in Lebanon right now; Palestinian militants are firing at Lebanese soldiers and are taking up positions in heavily civilian populated areas. It is called a “strategy”, by forcing your enemy to make a choice of killing a man who has killed a few innocent civilians, but having to possibly kill innocents that he hides behind. Militants who hide behind children are cowards and are the ones that have blood on their hands.
No, they are not.
Many of palestinians were killed in armed confrontation, the majority however were not, these were unarmed civilians.
They were killed as a result of reckless shooting, air strikes etc. in these areas.
Even if militants could be hiding in camps, they should target them alone if they are out to cause harm, they should not use 'war strategies' when innocent civilians are involved.
They have done this many times.
There is no way to justify the killing of innocents.
If GWB can find Saddam Hussein, the isreali force can find their guy hiding in refugee camps. No excuses.
Stategy or no strategy, I do believe that even in war there are rules, and so far they have violated human rights and will be held accountable, we all will.





By blowing up a pre-school, or firing rockets at an old ladies car?
Or by shooting at unarmed demonstrants who speak up against oppression?



Obviously it does not Lina. I invite you to read my earlier post on the subject.
And that's why The Almighty knows best, as I said in my two earlier posts.

Thanks for replying, I respect your opinion.
Reply

Zman
06-11-2007, 12:17 AM
:sl:/Peace To All


Little Ahmadinejads

By Gideon Levy
Sun., June 10, 2007
Sivan 24, 5767
Haaretz

Ram Caspi has written an article. From the heights of his apartment in Tel Aviv's David Towers, the prominent lawyer has suggested strangulating the Gaza Strip.

In the financial daily Globes of May 25, he called for,

"neither a land incursion nor an aerial attack, but the creation of a noose ... From the moment that rocket number eight is fired, the government of Israel will act to cut Gaza off from the essential infrastructure systems of fuel, water, electricity and telephones, and will prevent others from providing these utilities to Gaza."


In other words: to cut a million and a half people off from the sources of life.

...Not a hair on his head has been mussed as a result of his satanic proposal. This man of the law who incites for the violation of international law has not been chastised. No one has shunned him in the wake of his words.

The season for racism, collective punishment and verbal violence is at its height.

What was once the reserve of nutcases on the right, the talkbackers and the loony listeners to the call-in radio programs, is now politically correct, in the heart of the consensus, the dernier cri in the violent and overheated Israeli discourse.

Caspi is not alone. Satan is no longer to be found only in Tehran --- he is alive and kicking here in our midst.

Israel is being inundated by a murky stream of little blue-and-white Ahmadinejads:

If the president of Iran proposes to destroy Israel, they, who are smaller than he, are proposing only to "eradicate" villages, "flatten" them, starve entire populations and in fact to kill them.

There is no difference, in principle or morally, between the Iranian original and his Israeli imitators.

The racist and bullying philosophy of Minister of Strategic Affairs Avigdor Lieberman and his ilk has unleashed its malignant tentacles into the heart of society.

Meir Kahane, who made proposals more moderate than these, found himself shunned; Caspi continues to advise the top people in the country on legal matters.

This ugly and appalling phenomenon had its beginnings last summer, during the Second Lebanon War.

"We are allowed to have another Kfar Kana, we are allowed to destroy everything,"
said the justice minister at the time, Haim Ramon, the man who was in charge of maintaining the law.

Trade and Industry Minister Eli Yishai, a representative of a religious party that has a "spiritual" leadership, did not lag behind him: He proposed targeting infrastructure in Lebanon and "flattening" villages.

These two calls to commit war crimes did not emerge from the mouths of representatives of the extreme right.

Ramon and Yishai have remained legitimate spokesmen.


Nor did the generals keep quiet: "Grind Lebanon. Turn it into a museum of the incubation of terror," proposed a former chief of Northern Command headquarters, Brigadier General (Res.) Rafi Noy, a desired interviewee in the studios.

"If not the roof beams, destroy the foundations ... Attack Lebanon and also Gaza with plows and with salt, destroy them so no inhabitant remains. Transform them into barren desert, piles of rubble ... kill them, spill their blood, frighten the living," wrote poet Ilan Scheinfeld, who has recently published a novel whose boycott no one has called for.

Former chief rabbi Mordechai Eliahu has called for returning fire on homes;

Minister of Pensioner Affairs Rafi Eitan has proposed that Israel manufacture a domestic version of the Qassam and launch it on Gaza;

Public Security Minister Avi Dichter has said that targeted assassinations are not enough;

his successor at the Shin Bet security service, Yuval Diskin, has complained that "in Beit Lahiya and in Beit Hanoun they are living in tranquility;"

our old acquaintance Lieberman has proposed a hit on the quarter where Gaza City's well-off reside for every hit on Sderot;

Major General (Res.) Amiram Levin has called for dividing the Gaza Strip into squares, and after every Qassam destroying one;

former justice minister Yosef Lapid supported this proposal;

former chief of staff Moshe Ya'alon, the progenitor of the theory of "consciousness-searing," has proposed "cleansing the territory;"

Sderot Mayor Eli Moyal has said that he prefers "a dead child in Gaza to a dead child in Sderot,"

and a bereaved father from the Second Lebanon War, Ami Schreier, has called for the wiping out of a neighborhood in Gaza, with advance warning of three hours, for every Qassam.
Not one of them has been castigated for his words, not one of them shunned.

This is what we look like. This is our moral portrait.

Source:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/868829.html
Reply

barney
06-11-2007, 12:21 AM
Originally Posted by islamirama
Why isn't he a terorrist suspect and shipped to gitmo? why isn't any kuffar condeming him? Are all kuffars hypocrites and double standard like their leaders?

]
I'll condem him. He's a Idiot, should be sacked and imprisoned for enciting racial hate and abuse of his position. I'd happily hold a snarling dog on a leash near him and show him pictures of women in swimwear.
Reply

rav
06-11-2007, 12:30 AM
It seems like all the non-Muslims including me have condemned him... however, many Muslims refuse to condemn the same violence Hamas promotes. I assume that no one is so naive as to believe it is fair that Hamas blow up 2 year old babies and call for mass genocide of Jews, yet the Jews if they might defend themselves are the "evil" ones.
Reply

SATalha
06-11-2007, 12:35 AM
Originally Posted by rav
It seems like all the non-Muslims including me have condemned him... however, many Muslims refuse to condemn the same violence Hamas promotes. I assume that no one is so naive as to believe it is fair that Hamas blow up 2 year old babies and call for mass genocide of Jews, yet the Jews if they might defend themselves are the "evil" ones.
Yes the type of violence used by Hamas is not right. This is true, but we keep saying that we need to go to the root of the problem and that is Israeli occupation (or partial occupation) of 3 nations. Look what this guy has said is clearly a statement becuase it has no ligitimacy, in the sense that Israel are the occupiers. What right does he have in making these comment and what right do Hamas have in crossing over to Israel and killing innocents? The fact is Israel have shot themselves in the foot by occupying this land, the violence that comes their way, is of thier own making. STOP the occupation= STOPS the violence.
Reply

rav
06-11-2007, 12:40 AM
Originally Posted by SATalha
Yes the type of violence used by Hamas is not right. This is true, but we keep saying that we need to go to the root of the problem and that is Israeli occupation (or partial occupation) of 3 nations. Look what this guy has said is clearly a statement becuase it has no ligitimacy, in the sense that Israel are the occupiers. What right does he have in making these comment and what right do Hamas have in crossing over to Israel and killing innocents? The fact is Israel have shot themselves in the foot by occupying this land, the violence that comes their way, is of thier own making. STOP the occupation= STOPS the violence.
I'll agree with you that they need to get out of the Gaza strip and West Bank as well, but if you refer to the "occupation" as pre-1967 Israel as well than I will have to strongly disagree. Let me ask you, if Israel left right now, do you understand the anarchy that would take place in the West Bank? yes you would be free of occupation, but basic things that the Palestinians do not have the experts to run would be abandoned.
Reply

barney
06-11-2007, 12:44 AM
I think everyones seen footage of Hamas shooting out from crowds of civilians.

I do recall a Israeli Airstrike that was about 20 seconds away from launching and they called it off because swarms of civilians stood on the terrorists roof.

Anyway, as I say , put this extremist in jail and for gods sake dont let him have control of the IAF.
Reply

SATalha
06-11-2007, 12:50 AM
I think it is well clear that Israel is staying in the M.East. Why would there be anarchy? Simple
Leave Palestine
Instill Democracy
Hamas will win (Allah knows best)
Hamas will rule palestine, with no outside pressure and power sharing
Peace In Al-Quds

People tend to forget that Hamas although they have a stained image, they do many charity work and have set-up mediacal facilities, schools, Masjids etc

All iam saying is that this movement has the potential from being what it is now, to something better. They need to be given a chance, but the fact that they do not kneel to you-know-who makes them a problem. Wouldnt you agree?
Reply

HBot 5000
06-11-2007, 01:07 PM
I am not surprised by that statement :)
Reply

mariam.
06-11-2007, 07:36 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
The same hapenned in Lebanon during last war, Hesbullah deliberately placed missiles and rockets launchers on civilians' houses, because they knew that when Israel destroyes those houses, world will condemn it and will think that Israel deliberatelly attacks civilians.
Hey .. who tell these LIE?

the western media? If you want really to know the truth .. check out the authentic provenance.

Preparations for Israel's war in Lebanon last summer were drawn up at least four months before two Israeli soldiers were kidnapped by Hizbullah in July, Ehud Olmert, the prime minister, has admitted.

who start first shoulder the responsibility of All these WAR .. the logic said that.
Reply

Amadeus85
06-11-2007, 07:41 PM
Originally Posted by mariam.
Hey .. how tell these LIE?

the western media? If you want really to know the truth .. check out the authentic provenance.

Preparations for Israel's war in Lebanon last summer were drawn up at least four months before two Israeli soldiers were kidnapped by Hizbullah in July, Ehud Olmert, the prime minister, has admitted.

how start first shoulder the responsibility of All these WAR .. the logic said that.
And who told you that those are LIES? Your so reliable arabic, jew- hating media?
Hizbullah didnt care about Lebanon civilians, they just wanted the whole world to see Israel as attacking civilians. Thats why they deliberately placed rockets launchers on civilians houses. You dont have to believe this, i know that you see what you want to see.
Reply

England
06-11-2007, 08:00 PM
If Jews felt this way about non-jews then I would be anti-Jew but I know that the Jewish people are quite respectful. I remember going to a synagogue on a school trip and we met some Jews. They told us their story during the war and they thanked us for having them in our country. Bare in mind that we were only children, they told us that we should be proud of our country and they are very grateful that we had given them a better life in Britain. Now for those words alone, it's a pleasure to have them. The Jews respect other religions, our way of life, our culture and the country that they live in.
Reply

mariam.
06-11-2007, 08:11 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
And who told you that those are LIES? Your so reliable arabic, jew- hating media?
Hizbullah didnt care about Lebanon civilians, they just wanted the whole world to see Israel as attacking civilians. Thats why they deliberately placed rockets launchers on civilians houses. You dont have to believe this, i know that you see what you want to see.
Hizbullah didnt care about Lebanon civilians !!!

he care about what then,when the Israel's war in Lebanon start burnning?

In the fighting 1,200 Lebanese and 158 Israelis were killed. Of the dead almost 1,000 Lebanese and 41 Israelis were civilians.

Not because they deliberately placed rockets launchers on civilians houses.

but because Israel has the right to kill us .. with out any condemn.

Other thing ....

Originally Posted by Aaron85
And who told you that those are LIES? Your so reliable arabic,Israel- hating media?
you have to be careful when you accuse some One.

peace
Reply

Bittersteel
06-11-2007, 08:34 PM
Thats why they deliberately placed rockets launchers on civilians houses.
they also blew up a place which turned out to be a tissue paper factory not a hideout of Hizbullah arms.You are right ,but Israel unnecessarily killed a lot of civilians.Heck it still didn't manage to bring the back the captured Israeli soldiers ,did it?
I do recall a Israeli Airstrike that was about 20 seconds away from launching and they called it off because swarms of civilians stood on the terrorists roof.
exceptions.rare ones.
There is bad blood in both sides.The root reason why all this happened this way is the method used to establish the Jewish state(no I am not against one).
Let me ask you, if Israel left right now, do you understand the anarchy that would take place in the West Bank? yes you would be free of occupation, but basic things that the Palestinians do not have the experts to run would be abandoned.
why don't you start a slow transition?training them ,handing them responsibilities one by one instead of increasing settlements.
I don't think such statements(like the Rabbi's or Ahmadinejad's) are to be bothered about.
Reply

Zman
06-11-2007, 09:03 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
And who told you that those are LIES? Your so reliable arabic, jew- hating media?

The "reliable arabic, jew-hating media is disliked, because they tell the truth.

They got it right before our own media, did..

What about our own media. Have they not lied, many times over? Can't our media also be accused of being biased and taking every opportunity to show its hatred towards Arabs?

It's a 2-way stree, man...

Hizbullah didnt care about Lebanon civilians, they just wanted the whole world to see Israel as attacking civilians. Thats why they deliberately placed rockets launchers on civilians houses. You dont have to believe this, i know that you see what you want to see.

Hizbullah fighters never fired rockets from when civilians were around. Did you forget that long convoys of 800,000 civilians fleeing Southern Lebanon and the shia suburbs of Western Beirut?

Did you forget that there were no Hizbullah fighters in the Shia suburbs of Beirut, nor in some Christian neighborhoods of Eastern Beirut, yet, israel attacked those civilian areas. Where is your condomnation of that, sir?

Nor had they set up rockets inside homes. That has already been proven. After the war, Israel finally discovered that Hizbullah fired their rockets from underground bunkers. That's why during the 34-day Israeli aggression, they were utterly unsuccessful in neutralizing Hizbulla's rocket arsenal.

The black-and-white Israeli Air Force infrared photo's of Hizbullah rockets being fired from Qana, were fakes.

The IDF had to admit that the footage was 3 days old, and from another area. Therefore, Israel deliberately targeted the civilians of Qana for execution.

Here's one example of Israeli lies.


No Hezbollah Activists In Qana

Courtesy of: Focus News Agency
30 July 2006

Qana/Sofia--"There are no Hezbollah activists in the village of Qana, Israel is bombarding civilian buildings and vehicles," Spanish Journalist Monica Leiva, who is in the southern Lebanese village at the moment, told Focus News Agency.

"I am at the site of the bombardment at the moment. Here the people are still trying to pull the bodies out from under the ruins. At the moment they are trying to free the bodies of the children killed in the Israeli air raid.

The bombarding continues.

What more can I say? Israel is firing at everything--Buildings, roads, vehicles.

It is particularly impossible for the locals to leave the area, as there are no guarantee that they will not be fired at while trying to escape the war zone.

The people are very scared.

The air raids started during the night and continue.

There are no Hezbullah activists in Qana. There are only civilians here," the Spanish Journalist said.

Source:
http://focus-fen.net/index.php?catid...0&newsid=93149
Try anothe story, dude.

Let's face it, Israel lost the fight in the trenches, and they also lost the media war. All their lies have been exposed and debunked...
Reply

Zman
06-11-2007, 09:23 PM
:sl:/Peace To All

Israel's Human Shield Assertion Falls Apart

As we are constantly reminded by the disinformation media and Israel's hasbara (propaganda) machine, that the reason there are so many civilian deaths in the current war waged by Israel against the defenseless civilian population of Lebanon, is that Hizbullah fighters constantly hide behind helpless civilians and uses them as "human shields," in order to prevent the Israel Death Forces from attacking them.

Therefore, Israel has no other option than to fire at Hizbullah and their civilian "hostages," in order to protect Israeli citizens from incoming rockets.

The following is a quote that I took from Israel's daily newspaper, Haaretz:


"As the Israel Air Force continues to investigate the air strike, questions have been raised over military accounts of the incident.

It now appears that the military had no information on rockets launced from the site of the building, or the presence of Hezbollah men at the time.

The Israel Defense Forces had said after the deadly air-strike that many rockets had been launched from Qana. However, it changed its version on Monday.

The site was included in an IAF plan to strike at several buildings in PROXIMITY to a previous launching site. Similar strikes were carried out in the past.

However, there were no rocket launches from Qana on the day of the strike."

Source:
http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/745185.html
Reply

Amadeus85
06-11-2007, 09:25 PM
Let's face it, Israel lost the fight in the trenches, and they also lost the media war. All their lies have been exposed and debunked..
.


Hip Hip Hooray !!So you must be so proud of your heroes from Hizbullah. Maybe next time you , Arabs, will have more luck and you will finally kill al the Jews in Israel. You cant wait for that probably.
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Zman
06-11-2007, 09:40 PM
Originally Posted by Aaron85
.

Hip Hip Hooray !!So you must be so proud of your heroes from Hizbullah. Maybe next time you , Arabs, will have more luck and you will finally kill al the Jews in Israel. You cant wait for that probably.

Go blame Olmert for getting his "jews" killed.

He initiated the war.

He couldn't get at Hizbullah, so, he targets Lebanese civilians instead, and by doing so, Hizbullah retaliated by firing rockets at Israel.

But of course, you guys have a way with spinning events, so you can stomach the mess you got yourselves into, and avoid reality, altogether...
Reply

rav
06-11-2007, 09:41 PM
zman, I'm not sure I agree with all of your assertions:






Photos that **** Hezbollah

THIS is the picture that ****s Hezbollah. It is one of several, smuggled from behind Lebanon's battle lines, showing that Hezbollah is waging war amid suburbia.

The images, obtained exclusively by the Sunday Herald Sun, show Hezbollah using high-density residential areas as launch pads for rockets and heavy-calibre weapons.

Dressed in civilian clothing so they can quickly disappear, the militants carrying automatic assault rifles and ride in on trucks mounted with cannon.

The photographs, from the Christian area of Wadi Chahrour in the east of Beirut, were taken by a visiting journalist and smuggled out by a friend.

They emerged as:

US President George Bush called for an international force to be sent to Lebanon.

ISRAEL called up another 30,000 reserve troops.

THE UN's humanitarian chief Jan Egeland called for a three-day truce to evacuate civilians and transport food and water into cut-off areas.

US SECRETARY of State Condoleezza Rice returned to the Middle East to push a UN resolution aimed at ending the 18-day war, and:

A PALESTINIAN militant group said it had kidnapped, killed and burned an Israeli settler in the West Bank.

The images include one of a group of men and youths preparing to fire an anti-aircraft gun metres from an apartment block with sheets hanging out on a balcony to dry.

Others show a militant with AK47 rifle guarding no-go zones after Israeli blitzes.

Another depicts the remnants of a Hezbollah Katyusha rocket in the middle of a residential block blown up in an Israeli air attack.

The Melbourne man who smuggled the shots out of Beirut and did not wish to be named said he was less than 400m from the block when it was obliterated.

"Hezbollah came in to launch their rockets, then within minutes the area was blasted by Israeli jets," he said.

"Until the Hezbollah fighters arrived, it had not been touched by the Israelis. Then it was totally devastated.

"It was carnage. Two innocent people died in that incident, but it was so lucky it was not more."

The release of the images comes as Hezbollah faces criticism for allegedly using innocent civilians as "human shields".

Mr Egeland blasted Hezbollah as "cowards" for operating among civilians.

"When I was in Lebanon, in the Hezbollah heartland, I said Hezbollah must stop this cowardly blending in among women and children," he said.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sto...007220,00.html




_________________












Israeli Soldiers may have used human shields, and they should be punished for those isolated instances, but to deny Hezbollah and Hamas from commiting such crimes reduces your own credibility. I would suggest zman, that you open your eyes and view the world from a much more unbiased lens.
Reply

Zman
06-11-2007, 09:58 PM
Originally Posted by rav
zman, I'm not sure I agree with all of your assertions:

http://clarityandresolve.com/palHumanShields2.jpg

http://noisyroom.net/blog/l5.jpg

_________________

Israeli Soldiers may have used human shields, and they should be punished for those isolated instances, but to deny Hezbollah and Hamas from commiting such crimes reduces your own credibility. I would suggest zman, that you open your eyes and view the world from a much more unbiased lens.

Peace rav,

1. The original article doesn't contain the photo's of Hizbullah in a Christian neighborhood. Where did you get them from?

2. The "unidentified" man who "Smuggled" those phots out. Why is he "unidentified" and why did he "smuggle" the photos out.

These photo's aren't considered national security, or won't endanger the collection methods of an intelligence service.

The press service on numerous occasions have taken similar photo's and they haven't smuggled them out of the country. The Lebanese government didn't have a ban on taken such photos out of the country.

3. Regarding the rest of the photos, I don't see any evidence of human shields.

a) gain, why aren't they dated, placed, identified and briefly commented on properly (what towns where they taken in? And what year? What war? The identity of the gunemen?, etc).

b)There are fighters present, but the crowd clearly shows that they voluntarily gathered around those fighters, in order to observe the battle from "ringside seats."

It's totally different from having IDF troops tie a kid to their Jeep, or have a kid march before them, so he can take the 1st bullet if fired upon.

c) Also, these are large crowds. If they were truly human shields, they could have overwhelmed a couple of fighters, who were clearly focussed on the battle, and not on securing their alleged "hostages."

Thank you, but my credibility is in tact. I wouldn't say so for yours, after viewing your photos...
Reply

rav
06-11-2007, 10:31 PM
Originally Posted by Zman

Peace rav,
2. The "unidentified" man who "Smuggled" those phots out. Why is he "unidentified" and why did he "smuggle" the photos out.

These photo's aren't considered national security, or won't endanger the collection methods of an intelligence service.

The press service on numerous occasions have taken similar photo's and they haven't smuggled them out of the country. The Lebanese government didn't have a ban on taken such photos out of the country.


Shalom zman, (Quick question, what does "zman" mean?)

The man felt a threat on his life for revealing them. It may seem odd to you, but if he wishes not to reveal himself who are we to tell him otherwise? Were you in Lebanon actually viewing anything first hand? The camerman was.


3. Regarding the rest of the photos, I don't see any evidence of human shields.
"Human shield" is a military and political term describing the presence of civilians in or around combat targets to deter an enemy from attacking those targets. Where did you not see Hamas and Hezbollah not defending positions and firing on Israeli's in densly populated areas?

a) gain, why aren't they dated, placed, identified and briefly commented on properly (what towns where they taken in? And what year? What war? The identity of the gunemen?, etc).

b)There are fighters present, but the crowd clearly shows that they voluntarily gathered around those fighters, in order to observe the battle from "ringside seats."
I response to (a) They are a variety of shots in Lebanona nd the Gaza strip.

In response to (b) if they want "ringside" seats, than why complain if they are killed? It is irrelevant what the intention of the people are. Hezbollah uses "human shields" by setting up rockets and making bases in highly populated areas.

It's totally different from having IDF troops tie a kid to their Jeep, or have a kid march before them, so he can take the 1st bullet if fired upon.
No it is not. It is the same in the definition sense of the word. I have already condemned that action by IDF soldiers by the way. The topic is your denial of Hezbollah using human shields.

c) Also, these are large crowds. If they were truly human shields, they could have overwhelmed a couple of fighters, who were clearly focussed on the battle, and not on securing their alleged "hostages."
Please re-read the actual definition of a human shield tha I posted above. I think your mistaken on the actual meaning of the word in a military sense.

Thank you, but my credibility is in tact. I wouldn't say so for yours, after viewing your photos...
Okay, whatever you say zman. I was merely suggesting you remove yourself from the blinders that have been placed on you. When you look from both sides and are not so biased on every issue, than maybe we can have a reasonable conversation.

As for my photos, I wish you would judge yours with the same credibility as mine. You accept your stories and witness testimony as complete truth yet reject other opinions that do not suit your own.

Israeli Air Force warned Mohammed Weil Baroud, a Palestinian leader said to be responsible for firing Qassam rockets at Israel, to evacuate his home in Beit Lahia in the Gaza Strip in advance of an airstrike. Instead, hundreds of Palestinians, including many women and children, gathered outside Baroud's house. Israel suspended the airstrike out of fear that the human shields would be killed or injured." Palestinians now describe it as military policy to do such things. So if this is a "war" what should Israel do? Play "fair" which in Hamas's mind is to lay down and allow them to execute Jews?

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull

IDF soldiers may have done terrible things without permission from generals, but at the same time, to deny Hamas and Hezbollah do such a thing as well is in my mind very naive.
Reply

Zman
06-11-2007, 11:01 PM
Originally Posted by rav
The images, obtained exclusively by the Sunday Herald Sun, show Hezbollah using high-density residential areas as launch pads for rockets and heavy-calibre weapons.

Peace rav,

There are concerns now in Christian neighborhoods where there weren't yesterday, and there's concern there because there was a small missile fired at a what turned out to be a truck used for well-digging that from the air might have looked like a missile-launching truck. That was the first targeting in a Christian neighborhood, so there's growing concern in those neighborhoods now.

Source:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/...tsc/index.html
What else has Israel and that photgrapher gotten wrong?
Reply

rav
06-11-2007, 11:07 PM
I'm not sure. I certainly do not have that kind of information zman, just like neither do you. However, the photographer who took the pictures was on the ground. The Israeli intel was probably in the air.
Reply

Zman
06-11-2007, 11:14 PM
:sl:/Peace To All


July 23, 2006
Arab Herald & ig News Network / UPI
July 23, 2006

Why did Israel bomb two TV US-friendly stations in Lebanon — one of which was a Christian-owned broadcaster?

According to ABC News, Israel broke international laws against attacking nonmilitary targets in order to "prevent images" of civilians killed and injured by Israeli bombs from reaching TV audiences in the West.

Israel Bombs Lebanese TV, Mobile Phone, Transmission Towers

http://story.arabherald.com/p.x/ct/9...00d635ef22d4e/
I could see Israel bombing Hizbullah's Al Manar TV, but why the Christian LBC, which is also located in a Christian neighborhood?

Could have Hizbullah hid a few rockets inside the LBC building? It's worth exploring :rollseyes
Reply

rav
06-11-2007, 11:21 PM
It actually would be interesting. However, who knows what the motive was. We both do not know why it was done and what threat there was.

Either way, reps for your taking your time to pull all these articles. They are nice reads and although I view some of them bias I like to see all sides of the conflict, which I hope you are open to as well. As a Jew, I can admit when Israel does a wrong but it is extremely disheartening to see someone never admit any wrong doing on there part.
Reply

Bittersteel
06-12-2007, 07:47 AM
As a Jew, I can admit when Israel does a wrong but it is extremely disheartening to see someone never admit any wrong doing on there part.
too much hatred and fighting brings down rationality.But I don't think Hizbullah or Hamas militants would have resorted to bombs and human shields if they had a military power equal to that of Israel's.
Reply

Zman
06-12-2007, 01:22 PM
Originally Posted by rav
As a Jew, I can admit when Israel does a wrong but it is extremely disheartening to see someone never admit any wrong doing on there part.

Peace rav,

What have I done wrong and not have admitted to?

All I did was provide sources that refuted the claim that Hizbullah fighters or weapons were not in Christian neighborhoods.

Look at it this way:

1. Hizbullah isn't stupid to put their fighters or weapons in Christian areas, because the percentage of them being discovered or snitched on, increases.

2. There is no love lost between the Maronites and Muslims, particulary those who are members of Hizbullah. Locating the weapons and fighters in Muslim areas, increases their survivability.

3. By locating weapons and fighters in Christian neighborhoods, Hizbullah risks Israel attacking those areas, which will bring the Christians on the side of Israel, instead of being neutral in that conflict.

4. Hizbullah stated that they'll keep their battle confined to Southern Lebanon, in order not to risk the lives of Lebanese civilians. Every time Nasrallah made a promise, he's kept it, and Israel above all knows that.

5. Israel targeted Christian neighborhoods with the goal of dividing the Lebanese unity during its invasion. That way, the Christians would blame Hizbullah for the attacks and Join Israel, instead...
Reply

nocturne
06-13-2007, 10:31 AM
Recently,noticed BUSH taking interest in getting indepedence for Kosovo from Serbia. He was saying he would offer Serbia incentives to make the separation smoother.
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