Poll shows alarming level of disaffection among British Muslims

[glo]

Greetings

I truly hope this article will lead to a peaceful and beneficial discussion rather tha a slanging match.
The article refers to an opinion poll commissioned and released by Channel 4 TV news, a 'respected current affairs programme in the UK' (quote).
It appeared on Ecclesia, a Christian thinktank - hopefully you will find it is written in a balanced way, seeking understanding rather than division.

An opinion poll commissioned and released by Channel 4 TV news, a respected current affairs programme in the UK, has revealed alarming levels of disaffection among Muslims in Britain – including distrust for the authorities and doubts over the official version of the 7/7 bombings.

If the findings of the random sample are accurate, some 24 per cent of Britain's two million Muslims believe that the government may have had a role in staging the 7 July 2005 suicide attacks on a bus and underground trains.

A quarter think that the four men named as the killers of 52 passengers on the London transport system were not necessarily responsible for the attacks, drawing on conspiracy theories doing the rounds on the web – in a fashion similar to those concerning the 9/11 attacks in the United States.

The poll coincides with PM Tony Blair’s attempt to court and encourage moderate Muslim opinion at a Cambridge sponsored international conference.

A statistician told Ekklesia that the sampling and control technique for the 500 people randomly surveyed appeared ‘sound’, but that the margin of error was bound to be higher than for a 1,000 selection, and “it is well known that the context and framing of the questions impacts the response”.

Nevertheless, Channel 4 argues that its research unveils a significant level of dissent and dissatisfaction among British Muslims – stressing that the skepticism is not being expressed by ‘extremists’ but by mainstream followers of Islam who feel isolated, attacked and vilified by the state, the media and civil society.

The survey indicates that up to six in 10 of British Muslims believe the government may have not told the whole truth about the 2005 bombings.

More than half of those polled also felt the security services were likely have made up evidence to convict terror suspects – as actually happened in earlier, non-Muslim related miscarriages of justice such as the cases of the Birmingham six and the Guilford four (related to IRA violence).

Muslims subsequently interviewed by Channel 4 News believed that the CCTV images of the four men arriving at Luton station en route to London were ''faked'' and cast doubt on the two “martyrdom videos” of Mohammed Sidique Khan and Shehzad Tanweer, who admitted responsibility for the 7/7 bombs.

Others, including a respectable medical practitioner, said that the men had been made "convenient scapegoats".

More than 60 per cent of those polled for the GFK-NOP survey said they were worried that British police could kill people they suspected of being Muslim terrorists, as in the infamous De Menenez Stockwell shooting.

Shahid Malik, Labour MP for Dewsbury, where three of the July 7 bombers lived, said the findings were "disturbing" and there were a lot of people "in denial".

But writing on The Times’ website in response to Mr Blair’s remarks, Marie Xeno pointed in a different direction.

She wrote: “What's a 'moderate Muslim'? Someone that doesn't mind the invasion and occupation of Muslim countries and the slaughter of countless people there? We will see the end of 'extremist' Muslims when we see the end of 'extremist' leaders in the West. It's not rocket science although it is in a lot of people's interests to pretend that it is.”

From http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/node/5328

Does it reflect your views? (Particularly those of you who are Muslims in Britain ...)

Peace

[جوري]

It does reflect my views yes!
thanks for sharing.. at least in England they hold such events. I haven't see similar programming here in the U.S. unfortunately!

[Fishman]

:sl:
It doesn't really reflect my views much. I don't like the Iraq war, the War on Terror or the authorities, but I don't sink to conspiracy theories.
:w:

[strider]

:sl:
It doesn't really reflect my views much. I don't like the Iraq war, the War on Terror or the authorities, but I don't sink to conspiracy theories.
:w:

Likewise.

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[Mesmerise]

i didnt take part in this poll, but i do think it reflects my views to a certain extent. I am not totally hung up on conspiracy theories and such but there are certain aspects of the above post which i strongly agree with :)

[Chechnya]

it does kinda reflect my views

dunno whats so "extremist" about it tho - just some views held by people

[islamirama]

Greetings


Nevertheless, Channel 4 argues that its research unveils a significant level of dissent and dissatisfaction among British Muslims – stressing that the skepticism is not being expressed by ‘extremists’ but by mainstream followers of Islam who feel isolated, attacked and vilified by the state, the media and civil society.

More than half of those polled also felt the security services were likely have made up evidence to convict terror suspects – as actually happened in earlier, non-Muslim related miscarriages of justice such as the cases of the Birmingham six and the Guilford four (related to IRA violence).


More than 60 per cent of those polled for the GFK-NOP survey said they were worried that British police could kill people they suspected of being Muslim terrorists, as in the infamous De Menenez Stockwell shooting.

I saw riot vidoes few years back of whites vs asians. Street violence, bottle bombs and rull out war. When you are treated as 2nd class immigrant and not even a citizen, when your gov't is always pointing fingures at you and blaming you, when the media showsing nothing but negative images fo you, when the whole society is turned against. What makes you think one would love such a place or its people or see anything good in it. Like Musharaaf said, UK has in home problem and no outsider "terrorists" were involved. I've heard from so many people how common it is to be called 'paki" and other derogatory names in public and be prejudiced against. They have laws against such behavior in australia.

Muslims subsequently interviewed by Channel 4 News believed that the CCTV images of the four men arriving at Luton station en route to London were ''faked'' and cast doubt on the two “martyrdom videos” of Mohammed Sidique Khan and Shehzad Tanweer, who admitted responsibility for the 7/7 bombs.

Others, including a respectable medical practitioner, said that the men had been made "convenient scapegoats".

But writing on The Times’ website in response to Mr Blair’s remarks, Marie Xeno pointed in a different direction.

She wrote: “What's a 'moderate Muslim'? Someone that doesn't mind the invasion and occupation of Muslim countries and the slaughter of countless people there? We will see the end of 'extremist' Muslims when we see the end of 'extremist' leaders in the West. It's not rocket

Peace

I saw that vidoe of "evidence" being played over and over again on UK tv as if that is the only evidence they have to go on. Then I read news articles of some anti-terror training that was going on there at that time.

I think this is a good deductive analysis of that video

London 7/7 video

But writing on The Times’ website in response to Mr Blair’s remarks, Marie Xeno pointed in a different direction.

She wrote: “What's a 'moderate Muslim'? Someone that doesn't mind the invasion and occupation of Muslim countries and the slaughter of countless people there? We will see the end of 'extremist' Muslims when we see the end of 'extremist' leaders in the West. It's not rocket science although it is in a lot of people's interests to pretend that it is.”

I think that about sums up the whole fact and reality behind all this....

[glo]

it does kinda reflect my views

dunno whats so "extremist" about it tho - just some views held by people

Isn't that the point the article is making? That it is a sizeable perceptage of Muslims in Britain who feel unsettled, unheard and under attack/criticism ... and not just a small minority of extremists.

The 'rest of Britain' may not always understand its Muslim neighbours, or even agree with their views ... but as members of our society their views need to be heard.

Peace

[NobleMuslimUK]

First off I wouldnt trust any poll from zionist controlled Channel 4, they come out with such programs undercover mosque, fighting the enemy taleban all full of lie programs and intended to widen the gap between muslims and non muslims in Britain. Second point is can you blame muslims for feeling victimised with those snake politicians constantly blaming us for everything and telling us to spy on our children, yet spying on us constantly whether in mosques or universities etc.. People need to get their facts straight look at it from the point of a muslim living in Britain not just your narrow minded opinions. We have the British muslim council as though they represent all of muslims in Britain what a joke, the British look suspiciously towards muslims due to the constant propaganda being spread through the zionist media and government.

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


I totally agree with brother Noble Muslim ^ if the media stopped all the propaganda, then the muslims wouldn't have this mindset in the first place.

[strider]

First off I wouldnt trust any poll from zionist controlled Channel 4, they come out with such programs undercover mosque, fighting the enemy taleban all full of lie programs and intended to widen the gap between muslims and non muslims in Britain. Second point is can you blame muslims for feeling victimised with those snake politicians constantly blaming us for everything and telling us to spy on our children, yet spying on us constantly whether in mosques or universities etc.. People need to get their facts straight look at it from the point of a muslim living in Britain not just your narrow minded opinions. We have the British muslim council as though they represent all of muslims in Britain what a joke, the British look suspiciously towards muslims due to the constant propaganda being spread through the zionist media and government.

Oh, come on. This is one of the problems with Muslims today. They are too quick to pass the book and resolve themselves of any responsibility. It's always the government, the politicians, the Zionists, the media. If you see things as an 'us v them' thing then it is no wonder you are going to feel victimised. The media is continuously been accused of marrying Islam with terrorism, yet in peoples haste of making that link they overlook all the media outlets and people in the public eye who distance themselves from such garbage. Nearly every single program which remotely shows Muslims linked with unIslamic things is accused of been islamophobic. Are all Muslims saints or something who can never do anything wrong? Why is it so hard to accept a Muslim could be in the wrong and accept we have a problem within our own communities instead of been in a constant state of denial?

[glo]

I disagree, NobleMuslim and Fi_Sabilillah

I do not see this poll as an attempt to spread bad propaganda about the Muslim population of Britain, but instead as an attempt to understand and relate to our British Muslim neighbours.

I do not know first-hand what is it like to live as a Muslim in 21st century Britain ... that's exactly why I find it interesting to find out about it.

As the number of Muslims in Britain grows, they should make their voices heard more.
Do you not think this poll could be a step in the right direction?
(But then, I have been called naive before now ...! :D)

In peace

[Muezzin]

Oh, come on. This is one of the problems with Muslims today. They are too quick to pass the book and resolve themselves of any responsibility. It's always the government, the politicians, the Zionists, the media. If you see things as an 'us v them' thing then it is no wonder you are going to feel victimised. The media is continuously been accused of marrying Islam with terrorism, yet in peoples haste of making that link they overlook all the media outlets and people in the public eye who distance themselves from such garbage. Nearly every single program which remotely shows Muslims linked with unIslamic things is accused of been islamophobic. Are all Muslims saints or something who can never do anything wrong? Why is it so hard to accept a Muslim could be in the wrong and accept we have a problem within our own communities instead of been in a constant state of denial?

I tend to agree. We can't just accuse everything that disagrees as being Islamaphobic/racist. On the other hand, there do exist clear instances of bias in the media that we can and should identify.

Ultimately, though, sitting here whining and complaining about how Muslims are portrayed in the media does not really change things - we need to get more involved with the media, become more proactive. Obviously, the crazy terrorist minority that kills civilians has to be dealt with (i.e. telling them that what they are doing is wrong, regardless of what the aggressors in each conflict have done), rather than effectively pardoned with things like 'oh, well, the Israelis/Americans/Martians do worse'.

[- Qatada -]

Do you not think this poll could be a step in the right direction?
(But then, I have been called naive before now ...!

I agree, and i think it should be a wake up call for us all.


Like bro Muezzin said:

Ultimately, though, sitting here whining and complaining about how Muslims are portrayed in the media does not really change things - we need to get more involved with the media, become more proactive.

[Umar001]

I'd love to speak to Shahid Malik who thinks alot of people are in denial. I mean, honestly, you read things you hear things, I mean those conspiracy guys can really convince you that things are happening. Things aint always black and white. But then again what do you expect, everyone is human afterall.

I just cant wait till the foreign Muslims realise that this is not their land as such and attempt to go home and work it up, nothing about racism, but just being real, go home help out create better things for people and then build an islamic place. Why go to another kid's playground and then complain you dont feel comfortable? Of course not, go to your own play area and help those around you to learn the game so you can all play together.

[islamirama]

I'd love to speak to Shahid Malik who thinks alot of people are in denial. I mean, honestly, you read things you hear things, I mean those conspiracy guys can really convince you that things are happening. Things aint always black and white. But then again what do you expect, everyone is human afterall.

I just cant wait till the foreign Muslims realise that this is not their land as such and attempt to go home and work it up, nothing about racism, but just being real, go home help out create better things for people and then build an islamic place. Why go to another kid's playground and then complain you dont feel comfortable? Of course not, go to your own play area and help those around you to learn the game so you can all play together.

These days anything that stands up against the lies and propaganda are labeled as conspiracy theories. Yes there are some out there, but then there are valid ones out there as well that are label as this so as to dismiss it without having to deal with it. Sometimes people are too blinded to think for themselves and let the media and gov't do the thinking for them.

I'm sure the foriegn Muslims would be happy to go back to their lands, but it's a little hard to do that right now. Why don't the kuffars powers like US stop protecting dictators and supporting them and putting puppet regimines in the Muslim lands. Its so easiy for some to whine and say go back where you came from, and yet ignorantly fail to understand the chaos caused over their is done by your leaders. You destroy our backyard then we'll come play in yours till you stop crapping in ours.

got it mr converto?

[Amadeus85]

You destroy our backyard then we'll come play in yours till you stop crapping in ours.

got it mr converto?

But when you are in OUR backyard, play like we do.

[islamirama]

But when you are in OUR backyard, play like we do.

Who said I don't? I can play be the rules but doesn't mean I have to become you. BTW, what are you doing in OUR backyard? we wouldn't be here if you (gov't) wasn't over there.

[wilberhum]

I'm sure the foriegn Muslims would be happy to go back to their lands

Then why do they keep on comming? :skeleton:
You seem to ignore the obvious. :?

[islamirama]

Then why do they keep on comming? :skeleton:
You seem to ignore the obvious. :?

you seem to ignore the obvious, go back and read the full statement

[Muezzin]

I'd love to speak to Shahid Malik who thinks alot of people are in denial. I mean, honestly, you read things you hear things, I mean those conspiracy guys can really convince you that things are happening. Things aint always black and white. But then again what do you expect, everyone is human afterall.

I just cant wait till the foreign Muslims realise that this is not their land as such and attempt to go home and work it up, nothing about racism, but just being real, go home help out create better things for people and then build an islamic place. Why go to another kid's playground and then complain you dont feel comfortable? Of course not, go to your own play area and help those around you to learn the game so you can all play together.

The thing is, it's not the 'foreign Muslims' who cause the problems, really. They're in Non-Muslim countries because they (the foreign Muslims) thought their native countries were unsatisfactory, and were seeking a better standard of life abroad.

It's their offspring, certain of the people in my generation, that are the problem with regards to violence and attitude. I'm in no way undermining the discrimination that certain people suffer, nor am I excusing the polarising foreign policies of both Britain and the United States, but, truth be told, it's usually the younger generation, the one born in the West, who have a problem with it. It's something of an identity crisis.

[Umar001]

The thing is, it's not the 'foreign Muslims' who cause the problems, really. They're in Non-Muslim countries because they (the foreign Muslims) thought their native countries were unsatisfactory, and were seeking a better standard of life abroad.

It's their offspring, certain of the people in my generation, that are the problem with regards to violence and attitude. I'm in no way undermining the discrimination that certain people suffer, nor am I excusing the polarising foreign policies of both Britain and the United States, but, truth be told, it's usually the younger generation, the one born in the West, who have a problem with it. It's something of an identity crisis.

The problem was the older generation, seeker a better way of life? If that was the case you'd find them teaching their kids the deen, helping them out. Hardly that, go into supermarkets, shopping centers, how many Khans and Abdis and Chawdarys do you find undressed and how many clean shaven? If it was about better way of life they would have not forgotten themselves.

The younger ones are doing better in the sense that it seems they are waking up, or is it just the bulk of reverts who have woken and are taking action, I don't got a clue.

But all this 'They came to britain for a better life' is not a better life in a good sense but the one that was spoken of, hayyat ad dunya, if it was the life of akhira then the children would have been better off.

You ever been at a distant relative's house, that you dont really know, felt that uncomfortable feeling? What about at a person's house whom you feel has caused your family pain? Felt uncomfrtable? Well no wonder some Muslims feel uncomfortable in the Uk.

[Muezzin]

The problem was the older generation, seeker a better way of life? If that was the case you'd find them teaching their kids the deen, helping them out. Hardly that, go into supermarkets, shopping centers, how many Khans and Abdis and Chawdarys do you find undressed and how many clean shaven? If it was about better way of life they would have not forgotten themselves.

The younger ones are doing better in the sense that it seems they are waking up, or is it just the bulk of reverts who have woken and are taking action, I don't got a clue.

But all this 'They came to britain for a better life' is not a better life in a good sense but the one that was spoken of, hayyat ad dunya, if it was the life of akhira then the children would have been better off.

You ever been at a distant relative's house, that you dont really know, felt that uncomfortable feeling? What about at a person's house whom you feel has caused your family pain? Felt uncomfrtable? Well no wonder some Muslims feel uncomfortable in the Uk.

I'm just calling it as I see it. The older generation seems to be fine with living in the West, and if you look at the minority of troublemakers within the Muslim community, they're young guys. I'm not saying all young Muslims are problematic, I'm just saying the problem with attitudes etc tends to lie with certain members of the younger (i.e. my) generation, rather than the older one.

I'm not passing judgement as to whether or not life in the West is 'a better standard of life', I'm just saying that's why a lot of people emigrated in the first place, because in their mind, it was. Heck, a lot even emigrated in order to practice Islam, because their home countries were at that time unsatisfactory in that regard, from their point of view. However, even if the older generation may have made mistakes in terms of emigrating for the wrong reasons, that doesn't change the fact that the troublemakers today are certain members of the younger generation.

[Umar001]

I'm just calling it as I see it. The older generation seems to be fine with living in the West, and if you look at the minority of troublemakers within the Muslim community, they're young guys. I'm not saying all young Muslims are problematic, I'm just saying the problem with attitudes etc tends to lie with certain members of the younger (i.e. my) generation, rather than the older one.

I'm not passing judgement as to whether or not life in the West is 'a better standard of life', I'm just saying that's why a lot of people emigrated in the first place, because in their mind, it was. Heck, a lot even emigrated in order to practice Islam, because their home countries were at that time unsatisfactory in that regard, from their point of view. However, even if the older generation may have made mistakes in terms of emigrating for the wrong reasons, that doesn't change the fact that the troublemakers today are certain members of the younger generation.

Maybe we are reffering to two different things, you speak of problematic youth, I speak of awake youth. I don't know if its because we both see the same issue through different views or if we are just speaking about different things lol.

An example, starving person comes to the Uk, gets food, and forgets about his village who was starving with him, he gets comfortable. He has children, his children never starve, but they wake up and thruogh some means come to know that their village at home is starving, thus they act to stop that.

That is a picture I get, people came here and fell asleep, their children and reverts are now waking up, mainly probably because of TV and internet making remembering the people back home easier although as muslims they should do that anyway.

[Muezzin]

Maybe we are reffering to two different things, you speak of problematic youth, I speak of awake youth.

I agree with you in terms of the youth being acutely aware of the plight of Muslims, thanks to the internet etc. I also think there's a deal of identity-crisis-type things going on which contributes to that awareness. I don't think that all youths are problematic. I do think that the troublemakers in terms of terrorists come from the youth of the Western Muslim community, rather than the elders.

I don't know if its because we both see the same issue through different views or if we are just speaking about different things lol.

An example, starving person comes to the Uk, gets food, and forgets about his village who was starving with him, he gets comfortable. He has children, his children never starve, but they wake up and thruogh some means come to know that their village at home is starving, thus they act to stop that.

That is a picture I get, people came here and fell asleep, their children and reverts are now waking up, mainly probably because of TV and internet making remembering the people back home easier although as muslims they should do that anyway.

Empathy is good. It's good that the younger generation cares about the Muslims suffering everywhere, be they 'back home' or wherever. But when that empathy becomes twisted into vengeance, and people begin deliberately killing civilians as a response to Muslim civilians suffering, that is evil and must be stopped, no matter how angry we may feel at Muslims suffering unjustly.