View Full Version : Who would you rather be ruled by?
August
06-09-2007, 01:26 AM
This came up in another debate and I thought it would be interesting to see what the opinion is around here. Would you rather live in a country ruled by a cruel tyrant of your own religion, or a country ruled by a good leader from another faith? Assuming you have the freedom to practice your religion in either case.
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Umar001
06-09-2007, 11:59 PM
Well what type of tyranny would there be? I mean if it doesnt effect our faith?
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Yanal
06-10-2007, 12:00 AM
i voted A
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3ARABY_2005
06-10-2007, 12:00 AM
A: the government is a police state, but the leaders share your religion
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strider
06-10-2007, 12:05 AM
Option B. I'd hate to live in a police state.
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Umar001
06-10-2007, 12:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by
3ARABY_2005
A: the government is a police state, but the leaders share your religion
Yea but do they follow it? If they did then they wouldnt be tyrants. So what can make one sure that they follow other parts.
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AHMED_GUREY
06-10-2007, 12:14 AM
C: A government that respects my rights and freedoms, and also shares the same religion as mine
that's perfect government for a Muslim
but since that's not an option in the poll
i've chosen B:
A dictator with two pious parents doesn't equal a pious Dictator lol
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barney
06-10-2007, 12:43 AM
Could you add another option for agnostics? Neither state appeals to me.
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:sl:/Peace To All
I chose "B."
Reasons:
1. The Prophet (PBUH), sent Muslims to seek refuge and saftey under a Just Christian King, in ancient Ethiopia.
2. I believe there is a Hadith which states that it's better to be ruled by a Just non-Muslim than an unjust Muslim, something along that line (I think, but, I don't know the exact wording).
Having a co-religionist at the head of a government, doesn't guarantee that he'll be a practicing Muslim, nor will he observe Islamic law, or guarantee the rights of Muslims.
Also, many heads of state are Muslim by name, but are openly hostile to Islam and Muslims.
Anyway, Islam and a police state, are like oil & water.
Tyranny, oppression and lack of freedoms/rights go against everything Islam stands for...
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Pygoscelis
06-10-2007, 03:04 AM
If those are the only two choices? B. I already live under that. I certainly don't want a police state.
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barney
06-10-2007, 03:07 AM
Canada devolves it's policys from the religion of it's leaders?
Its not how I read (B)...
Seems to mean more of a religious state thinggummy?
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Hashim_507
06-10-2007, 06:05 AM
Is there different choice? besides those two picks..
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3ARABY_2005
06-10-2007, 07:13 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by
Al Habeshi
Yea but do they follow it? If they did then they wouldnt be tyrants. So what can make one sure that they follow other parts.
IF IT'S UR CHOICE BROTHER...U CAN'T LET A NON MUSLIM RULES U..
THE RULER MUST BE MUSLIM....ISLAM DOESN'T ALLOW US TO CHOOSE A NON MUSLIM RULER ON ISLAMIC LANDS.
SO ANYWAY...I WILL CHOOSE THE MUSLIM RULER :thumbs_up :thumbs_up
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why would a country be with all policemen???? :p :p :p
let's make it military country, where everyone is a soldier :p lollll
lol just jokin.
well, myself I would choose none of them. cuz both are "catch one, hit the other".
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
06-10-2007, 05:04 PM
Meh I dont know. Well even if the guy is a corrupt Muslim, we always have the option to get rid of him :D B sounds nice too, but I don't want a non Muslim runnin over me =\. So umm yeaa, can't really decide.
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Cognescenti
06-10-2007, 06:00 PM
Just out of curiosity, does anyone wish to nominate someone as an example of a living, non-corrupt Muslim ruler?
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Cognescenti
06-10-2007, 06:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by
3ARABY_2005
IF IT'S UR CHOICE BROTHER...U CAN'T LET A NON MUSLIM RULES U..
THE RULER MUST BE MUSLIM....ISLAM DOESN'T ALLOW US TO CHOOSE A NON MUSLIM RULER ON ISLAMIC LANDS.
SO ANYWAY...I WILL CHOOSE THE MUSLIM RULER :thumbs_up :thumbs_up
Ah...then the problem is solved. As all "Islamic Lands", at one point, "belonged" to a non-Muslim people so the concept of "Islamic Land" is pointless.
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August
06-11-2007, 05:58 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by
Cognescenti
Ah...then the problem is solved. As all "Islamic Lands", at one point, "belonged" to a non-Muslim people so the concept of "Islamic Land" is pointless.
Actually, if I understand correctly, in Islamic law any country that was ever possesed by Muslims remains Islamic land forever. That would include Spain, for example. Interesting implications, huh?
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snakelegs
06-11-2007, 07:14 AM
no country is ruled according to islamic law.
as for the question, my answer is none of the above.
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Hashim_507
06-11-2007, 07:26 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by
snakelegs
no country is ruled according to islamic law.
as for the question, my answer is none of the above.
What about the muslim countries?
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snakelegs
06-11-2007, 07:27 AM
as far as i know, none of them is under shariah rule completely.
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Hashim_507
06-11-2007, 08:08 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by
snakelegs
as far as i know, none of them is under shariah rule completely.
Saudia Arabia and some muslim have sharia law but the leaders are not using the right way.
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aamirsaab
06-11-2007, 08:24 AM
:sl:
format_quote Originally Posted by
Cognescenti
Just out of curiosity, does anyone wish to nominate someone as an example of a living, non-corrupt Muslim ruler?
LOL
I haven't voted simply because the poll is biased. You've got a police state where your religion is shared by leader or a non police but freedoms are respected state where your religion is not shared by leader. Clearly biased, Maybe not intentional.
A good country to live in is one where the leader does what is good not only for it's countrymen but what is also good for it's outsiders.
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HBot 5000
06-11-2007, 12:58 PM
I chose the latter quite simply because of my experience within the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia....i h8 the mutawwah.. :(
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Cognescenti
06-11-2007, 04:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by
aamirsaab
:sl:
LOL
I haven't voted simply because the poll is biased. You've got a police state where your religion is shared by leader or a non police but freedoms are respected state where your religion is not shared by leader. Clearly biased, Maybe not intentional.
A good country to live in is one where the leader does what is good not only for it's countrymen but what is also good for it's outsiders.
Which country would that be? :)
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aamirsaab
06-12-2007, 08:38 AM
:sl:
format_quote Originally Posted by
Cognescenti
Which country would that be? :)
I actually cannot give you an answer. Though there are certain countries that to their credit do good things for their own countrymen (US and UK, though certain actions by their respective leaders do leave me puzzled). Sadly, they don't
always have the best interests for their outsiders. This is the case for most countries nowadays.
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skhalid
06-12-2007, 08:59 AM
I want my right and freedom so.......
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Musaafirah
06-12-2007, 09:18 AM
By a police state what exactly do you mean? Like a dictator or something? Saddam Hussein style? :?
I personally couldn't choose either..
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Gangster No.1
06-12-2007, 09:25 AM
I vote for an islamic state, haram to vote any other type of organistaion, end of the day who's laws do we OBEY?
ALLAH ALMIGHTY?
DA QUEEN?
she'll be judged herself oneday, so how can you axpect 2 follow sum1 like her, non-muslim, man made law, muslim oppressers, muslim haters, devils companions, and then you wont me 2 vote for ......Labour?Conservatives etc...or perhaps the BNP. lol.
i only obey allah, inshalah.
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strider
06-12-2007, 09:34 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by
Gangster No.1
I vote for an islamic state, haram to vote any other type of organistaion, end of the day who's laws do we OBEY?
ALLAH ALMIGHTY?
DA QUEEN?
she'll be judged herself oneday, so how can you axpect 2 follow sum1 like her, non-muslim, man made law, muslim oppressers, muslim haters, devils companions, and then you wont me 2 vote for ......Labour?Conservatives etc...or perhaps the BNP. lol.
i only obey allah, inshalah.
Hold your horses! Not all non-Muslims hate Muslims or Islam. Not all non-Muslims are guilty of crimes against humanity. Simply equating non-Muslim with evil and barbaracy is ridiculous.
I'd rather live in a state where i had freedom and a compassionate, humane non-Muslim leader as opposed to somebody who happens to profess to been a Muslim whilst going against the basic tenants of Islam.
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Gangster No.1
06-12-2007, 09:50 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by
strider
Hold your horses! Not all non-Muslims hate Muslims or Islam. Not all non-Muslims are guilty of crimes against humanity. Simply equating non-Muslim with evil and barbaracy is ridiculous.
I'd rather live in a state where i had freedom and a compassionate, humane non-Muslim leader as opposed to somebody who happens to profess to been a Muslim whilst going against the basic tenants of Islam.
Hang on then,lol.
no, what i am saying is the queen and her man made laws, are haram to musims and haram to vote for those laws to be holded, obvisouly we dont have no controll off all the votes to uhold the man made law, like goverment laws because it is controlled and no matter who you vote for.......its a man made law, that is haram.
you got the wrong end of da stick, i dont hate all non-muslims, jus most of them,lol. still no t all then init!
and not all non-mulsims hate muslims, just MOST of them, still not all izit.
lol.
i think we need 2 start i new thread? about voting, and haram, or halal, and is goverment law haram for muslims?
what you think shall I?
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Pygoscelis
06-12-2007, 10:00 AM
I'd like to see that thread. By what you've posted above it sounds almost like muslims are not supposed to follow secular laws (ie, they are meant to be criminal where secular law is enacted). I'm sure that's not what you mean, but that's how it appears.
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Gangster No.1
06-12-2007, 10:03 AM
lol. i'll try and start a new thread, without getting banned, hopefully.
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Ubaidah
06-12-2007, 10:06 AM
B. the government respects your rights and freedoms, but the leaders follow a different religion.
No question about it. I love the diversity America brings.
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strider
06-12-2007, 10:07 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by
Gangster No.1
Hang on then,lol.
no, what i am saying is the queen and her man made laws, are haram to musims and haram to vote for those laws to be holded, obvisouly we dont have no controll off all the votes to uhold the man made law, like goverment laws because it is controlled and no matter who you vote for.......its a man made law, that is haram.
i think we need 2 start i new thread? about voting, and haram, or halal, and is goverment law haram for muslims?
what you think shall I?
This forum, like most other Muslim forums has probably got a thread on that very topic lurking somewhere.
you got the wrong end of da stick, i dont hate all non-muslims, jus most of them,lol. still no t all then init!
and not all non-mulsims hate muslims, just MOST of them, still not all izit.
You've met most non-Muslims now, have you?
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Gangster No.1
06-12-2007, 10:11 AM
Have you met most non-muslims?
lol.
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Muezzin
06-12-2007, 10:12 AM
Whoah there, maybe we should all rein in the hostility and prejudice.
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strider
06-12-2007, 10:13 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by
Gangster No.1
Have you met most non-muslims?
lol.
No, but i'm not the one going around making ridiculous and offensive comments.
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Muezzin
06-12-2007, 10:15 AM
So rather than making insulting comments, shall we just answer the original poster's question?
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Gangster No.1
06-12-2007, 10:20 AM
look im jus ganna start a new thread, o.k sis? lol.
p.s, thread is going 2 b called: WHO'S LAWS DO WE OBEY? ALLAH ALMIGHTY or her Majesty da queer?
is that o.k, from there we shall discuss what needs to be said, and understud. for both of us and for all muslims and non-muslims. Inshalah.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
06-12-2007, 06:34 PM
do u mean queen?? Lol...:X I'd choose Allahs laws over anything but then again if the "Muslim" is corrupt, he's not exactly following Allah(swt) now is he?
So umm i still cant decide =\.
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Sinbad
06-12-2007, 06:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by
HBot 5000
I chose the latter quite simply because of my experience within the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia....i h8 the mutawwah.. :(
Dont do it. I hate christians cause their bible say one thing they do another. Their bible mentiones slavery, it mentiones womed dress modestly, thats why nuns cover hteir hair and body et c.
You can not pick and choose and making it more "humane", then it will be christianity all over again.
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Keltoi
06-12-2007, 10:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by
Sinbad
Dont do it. I hate christians cause their bible say one thing they do another. Their bible mentiones slavery, it mentiones womed dress modestly, thats why nuns cover hteir hair and body et c.
You can not pick and choose and making it more "humane", then it will be christianity all over again.
You hate Christians huh? Nice to know that.
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Sinbad
06-13-2007, 05:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by
Keltoi
You hate Christians huh? Nice to know that.
I hate muslims more, but I hate you christians as well yes.
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August
06-13-2007, 06:53 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by
Sinbad
I hate muslims more, but I hate you christians as well yes.
Nice to see that agnostics have no moral or intellectual superiority.
Seriously, if you want to talk about hating another religion, go to another thread. The point of this discussion is simply to see who is or is not comfortable being ruled by someone of another religion.
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barney
06-13-2007, 07:35 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by
August
Nice to see that agnostics have no moral or intellectual superiority.
.
Ahh! You have just made the same mistake as him.:D
You have just lumped agnostics all together.
He might hate Christians or muslims, thats his predjudice, not his agnosticism!
You see agnostics as all the same?
He sees Muslims and Christians as all the same.
I'm agnostic.
I dont hate Christians, I dont hate Muslims.
I think their religions are
terrible. That dosnt make them bad people. Gullible sure.
Worthy of hate? nowai.
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Skywalker
06-13-2007, 07:50 AM
That's almost a contradictory argument for Muslims because if a country is ruled by Islam, it wouldn't be a 'police state', but one that gives you rights and freedoms.
I can choose B, but I don't agree with the validity of the two options, so I choose neither.
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Skywalker
06-13-2007, 08:01 AM
I just read this!
format_quote Originally Posted by Sindbad
I hate muslims more, but I hate you christians as well yes.
Hate is great! We should all hate! That would really make the world a better place.
...well that
kinda rhymes... ;D
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Sinbad
06-13-2007, 08:13 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by
Skywalker
I just read this!
Hate is great! We should all hate! That would really make the world a better place.
...well that kinda rhymes... ;D
would? This is a world of hate, Palestinians hate Israelis, Israelist hate palestinians, I hate both of them....
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north_malaysian
06-13-2007, 08:23 AM
I've voted B.
Because tyrant Muslim leaders with authoritarian rule is not Islamic.
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Skywalker
06-13-2007, 08:53 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sinbad
would? This is a world of hate, Palestinians hate Israelis, Israelist hate palestinians, I hate both of them....
Great! Instead of striving to improve things, we should add to the hate! Sounds reasonable.
Thumbs up to you, dude!
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August
06-13-2007, 04:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by
barney
Ahh! You have just made the same mistake as him.:D
You have just lumped agnostics all together.
He might hate Christians or muslims, thats his predjudice, not his agnosticism!
Oops! Sorry.
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......
06-13-2007, 05:04 PM
I Voted B
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islamirama
06-13-2007, 05:14 PM
I vote C
C: government respects your rights and freedoms, AND leaders followsame religion.
anyways, it's not that easy. In non-Muslim lands, i don't care who is the ruler so long as its not a police state Bush is making. And for Muslim lands the ruler has to be a Muslim by law, and the current leaders don't really fall into that category exactly considering their actions and how much islam do they really follow?
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Skywalker
06-14-2007, 06:13 AM
^ That's what I said. You should add that option to the polls...although that would ruin the point of the poll I guess.
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adnan88
06-18-2007, 02:22 PM
I'm not sure what it is exactly meant by a "police state"; however, if it is inferring that it is to live in Dar al-herb with the full implementation of Shariah, then I'm all for it.
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czgibson
06-18-2007, 02:29 PM
Greetings,
Neither, ideally, although I already live in a state a little like B.
I'd rather live in a state where religion had nothing whatsoever to do with politics.
Peace
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IbnAbdulHakim
06-18-2007, 03:01 PM
i want the leader to share my relifion :)
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Encolpius
06-21-2007, 09:54 AM
How about D. The government respects and allows all religions yet keeps itself out of inter-faith wrangling and the beliefs of the people in government are not permitted to colour their rule of the country nor to discriminate in favour of nor against any faith.
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IbnAbdulHakim
06-21-2007, 10:30 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by
Encolpius
How about D. The government respects and allows all religions yet keeps itself out of inter-faith wrangling and the beliefs of the people in government are not permitted to colour their rule of the country nor to discriminate in favour of nor against any faith.
yes this is acceptable :)
when the muslims during the time of the prophet sallallahi alaihi wasallaam migrated to abysinia, the king of the time gave them freedom to practise their religion.
i appreciate and recognize the rulers who allow muslims to practise their religion freely, may Allah guide them :)
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crayon
02-12-2008, 09:15 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by
Sinbad
I hate muslims more, but I hate you christians as well yes.
format_quote Originally Posted by
Sinbad
would? This is a world of hate, Palestinians hate Israelis, Israelist hate palestinians, I hate both of them....
Ahaha. You're ace, dude. Just keep up the hating, it'll do you a world of good.:D
To answer the question, if I
HAD to choose between those two options, it would be B. Both options blow, though..
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guyabano
02-12-2008, 09:48 AM
@crayon:
I don't know why you keep up digging out some old threads, specially, when you can see, that the poster-account you quote is already been disabled???
Peace
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crayon
02-12-2008, 10:52 AM
They're digging themselves up, guyabano. I don't always look at the dates of the posts before I answer a poll.
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guyabano
02-12-2008, 11:06 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by
crayon
They're digging themselves up, guyabano. I don't always look at the dates of the posts before I answer a poll.
You mean, you don't browse these posts and open them again?
How can it be possible then that the appear suddenly?
hmmm...strange.
I guess, only the Admin knows then
Peace
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crayon
02-12-2008, 11:33 AM
I think it's to do with all the database errors and all that.
Allahu A'lam.
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Moon*Light
02-12-2008, 02:16 PM
:sl:
Well I rather have a gov, that respects my rights and freedom and the ruler is of my religion.
I voted the second one because I live in such a country and know people who live in a police state and understand the differences between the two.
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