Wife Behaviour in the Bible

[Medina83]

I just thought it would be interesting to post some passages from the Bible which encourage a wife to be obedient to her husband, and her husband to be kind to her...same as in Islam. Its not very detailed research just some passages I noted over a period of time.

I thought its nice to focus on the commonalities sometimes....

Genesis 3:16
To the woman he said,
"I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;
with pain you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you."


1 Corinthians 11
Propriety in Worship
2I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,[a] just as I passed them on to you.
3Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 4Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is just as though her head were shaved. 6If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head. 7A man ought not to cover his head,[b] since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. 8For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head.
11In the Lord, however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God. 13Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering. 16If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice—nor do the churches of God.



Ephesians 5 Wives and Husbands
22Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing[b] her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— 30for we are members of his body. 31"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh."[c] 32This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.



Colossians 3
Rules for Christian Households
18Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.
19Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them.




Timothy 2
9I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.
11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women[a] will be saved[b] through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.




Titus 2
What Must Be Taught to Various Groups
1You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine. 2Teach the older men to be temperate, worthy of respect, self-controlled, and sound in faith, in love and in endurance.
3Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. 4Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, 5to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.
6Similarly, encourage the young men to be self-controlled. 7In everything set them an example by doing what is good. In your teaching show integrity, seriousness 8and soundness of speech that cannot be condemned, so that those who oppose you may be ashamed because they have nothing bad to say about us.



1 Peter 3
Wives and Husbands
1Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, 2when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. 3Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. 4Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight. 5For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful. They were submissive to their own husbands, 6like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.
7Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.



:thumbs_up

[August]

It's nice to look at similarities sometimes. I think there are some significant differences in this area between Christians and Muslims, but I'll leave them out in the spirit of...getting along.

[Trumble]

11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

Erm, yes.. I think the phrase 'sexist, dated tosh' springs to mind. Not to mention worryingly mysogynistic to boot.

A wife need be no more 'obedient' to her husband than him to her and both should be as kind to each other. Relics should be left in the past where they belong.

[Keltoi]

Erm, yes.. I think the phrase 'sexist, dated tosh' springs to mind. Not to mention worryingly mysogynistic to boot.

A wife need be no more 'obedient' to her husband than him to her and both should be as kind to each other. Relics should be left in the past where they belong.

As a Christian I actually agree with you. I've always thought, and I think most Christians now think, that these passages referring to the role of women were a product of culture and not the Word of God. It isn't as difficult for Christians to put Biblical writing in perspective as most of us do not take every passage in the Bible literally or as the literal Word of God. The Message of Jesus Christ is the Word of God, in our eyes, so these cultural attachements are seen as just that. Granted, not every Christian would agree with me, but I think most would.

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[Umar001]

Yes, well I think some people do view some of it as being cultural and not neccesarily appliable now.

Which some Muslims find interesting.

I think marital reletionships within the two faiths as a topic would be so indepth due to the obvious attention that the Islamic view has, but the not so delved into view of Christianity. Would sure required alot of patience and sound mindedness.

Concerning most agreeing with you Keltoi, I think most on this site would, but then again I think this site only hosts are a very small opinion. The Christians I meet here are definetly not the type I meet on the street. A fair share of Christians I know would run away from speaking to Muslims rather than come to an Islamic site.

[Medina83]

As a Christian I actually agree with you. I've always thought, and I think most Christians now think, that these passages referring to the role of women were a product of culture and not the Word of God. It isn't as difficult for Christians to put Biblical writing in perspective as most of us do not take every passage in the Bible literally or as the literal Word of God. The Message of Jesus Christ is the Word of God, in our eyes, so these cultural attachements are seen as just that. Granted, not every Christian would agree with me, but I think most would.

Well on the contrary perhaps you should be taking it literally...

see in the Catholic Catechism:

104 In Sacred Scripture, the Church constantly finds her nourishment and her strength, for she welcomes it not as a human word, "but as what it really is, the word of God".67 "In the sacred books, the Father who is in heaven comes lovingly to meet his children, and talks with them."68

II. INSPIRATION AND TRUTH OF SACRED SCRIPTURE

105 God is the author of Sacred Scripture. "The divinely revealed realities, which are contained and presented in the text of Sacred Scripture, have been written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit."69

"For Holy Mother Church, relying on the faith of the apostolic age, accepts as sacred and canonical the books of the Old and the New Testaments, whole and entire, with all their parts, on the grounds that, written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, they have God as their author, and have been handed on as such to the Church herself."70

106 God inspired the human authors of the sacred books. "To compose the sacred books, God chose certain men who, all the while he employed them in this task, made full use of their own faculties and powers so that, though he acted in them and by them, it was as true authors that they consigned to writing whatever he wanted written, and no more."71

107 The inspired books teach the truth. "Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures."72



So if the Bible is Sacred Scripture of whom God is the author via the Holy Spirit, then who are you to then say it should not be taken literally???

Paul himself said that his message came not from the apostles but from Revealation revealed to him directly from Jesus Christ.

im trying to find the verse where he says this, i found it yesterday but didnt take a note of it...

[Keltoi]

In Christ we are all children of God. As the apostle Paul wrote: “You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus” (Galatians 3:26-28).

[Medina83]

In Christ we are all children of God. As the apostle Paul wrote: “You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus” (Galatians 3:26-28).

not sure how this ties in here....:?

:) but we are all brothers in humanity and servants of Allah...:thumbs_up

[glo]

Personally, I love the way the Bible describes the relationship between husband and wife.
If you read closely, it expresses a careful balance between the two.

Many Christian women I know do consider their husbands to be the head of the family ... but that is not to say that the husband should make decisions without consulting his wife. On the contrary, if the man fulfills his part of the bargain, he will respect and honour his wife, her feelings and her opinions.

What seems like discrimination and sexist to outsiders, actually works in perfect harmony ... providing both partners subscribe to and adhere to the same set of rules ...

In the past we've had some great discussions in the mixed female section about the similarities in the Christian/Islamic perspective on marriage . :)

Peace

[Medina83]

Personally, I love the way the Bible describes the relationship between husband and wife.
If you read closely, it expresses a careful balance between the two.

Many Christian women I know do consider their husbands to be the head of the family ... but that is not to say that the husband should make decisions without consulting his wife. On the contrary, if the man fulfills his part of the bargain, he will respect and honour his wife, her feelings and her opinions.

What seems like discrimination and sexist to outsiders, actually works in perfect harmony ... providing both partners subscribe to and adhere to the same set of rules ...

In the past we've had some great discussions in the mixed female section about the similarities in the Christian/Islamic perspective on marriage . :)

Peace

Nicely said Glo :thumbs_up

I just wonder though how many other Christians have the same perspective as you?

I also wonder how other Christians would react to you saying that...

The reason I wonder is because when a Muslim girl says it, people think she is 'brainwashed' or 'oppressed'...(i have been on the receiving end of these kind of comments from Christians around me).

I just wonder would other Christians react to you the same way :?


p.s. can i ask you if you cover your head when you pray?

[glo]

Nicely said Glo :thumbs_up

I just wonder though how many other Christians have the same perspective as you?

I also wonder how other Christians would react to you saying that...

The reason I wonder is because when a Muslim girl says it, people think she is 'brainwashed' or 'oppressed'...(i have been on the receiving end of these kind of comments from Christians around me).

I just wonder would other Christians react to you the same way :?

One way to find out, I guess ... :D

BTW, I wanted to rep you for this thread ... but it would appear I have already repped you recently ... consider yourself repped anyway ... :)

Peace

[Medina83]

One way to find out, I guess ... :D

BTW, I wanted to rep you for this thread ... but it would appear I have already repped you recently ... consider yourself repped anyway ... :)

Peace

BarakaAllahu fiki :D

May God Bless you :statisfie

[Umar001]

Many Christian women I know do consider their husbands to be the head of the family ...

Just wondering, do they do so because they feel it is a duty placed upon them or do they so out of habit or culture?

[glo]

Just wondering, do they do so because they feel it is a duty placed upon them or do they so out of habit or culture?

In our Western culture I would say it is neither habit nor culture, because our culture tells us otherwise (namely that such notions are sexist and discriminatory)
Speaking for the women I know well enough to attempt such a judgement, I would say they do it out of conviction ... but of course I cannot really speak for others ...

Peace

[Keltoi]

Well, traditionally men have been the head of the household in the West and most other cultures. That tradition is still apparent in Christianity. I didn't state I believed women who follow these traditions are "oppressed" or that there isn't Biblical precedent for it. I just believe the male dominance in the household and elsewhere is a product of culture, not necessarily a religious text. Christ went against this cultural norm when He allowed women to join His circle of disciples and to travel with Him.

[glo]

Good points, Keltoi. I didn't think of cultural traditions in that way. I suppose the concept of the man being the main bread winner is still very prevalent.

I was more thinking about myself personally, or perhaps for my generation and those younger.
My formative years were the 80s - and I came out very emancipated, thinking that women should be able to do all and more than men! Submitting to any man, let alone my husband, was never part of my culture!

I don't feel that any more. I know feel that men and women (as a general rule - of course there are exceptions) have different skills, gifts, abilities and talents, which each should be proud of and make the most of, rather than vying for the other's.
My husband is stronger than me ... let him open the jam jars, I say! :D

Women are not and should not be oppressed by Christian teaching ... although I am sure that has happened historically, and possibly still happens nowadays ... :(

Gosh, even my atheist husband knows how to quote (jokingly) the 'wifes, submit to your husbands', when he wants me to make him a cup of tea ...
Hahaha!!! :D

[Medina83]

I just believe the male dominance in the household and elsewhere is a product of culture, not necessarily a religious text. Christ went against this cultural norm when He allowed women to join His circle of disciples and to travel with Him.

You are right it has always been a cultural thing that men are more dominant in the household. Religion has agreed and encouraged this culture..


And the point you made about Christ going against cultural norms, brings us to another common point between Christianity and Islam.

As Christ elevated the status of women, so too did Muhammad saws as he banned the killing of baby girls and gave rights to women that were previously unheard of such as owning property etc.

However I dont think that this elevation of women contradicts or goes against teachings that the wife should be submissive to the husband in matters.

Nowadays it has such a loaded meaning to be 'submissive'...but in reality a couple discusses what is best and final approval rests with the man.

Both religions emphasise careful kind and loving treatment of the wife, its not a case of her being a doormat by being submissive

:)

[duskiness]

As a Christian I actually agree with you. I've always thought, and I think most Christians now think, that these passages referring to the role of women were a product of culture and not the Word of God. It isn't as difficult for Christians to put Biblical writing in perspective as most of us do not take every passage in the Bible literally or as the literal Word of God. The Message of Jesus Christ is the Word of God, in our eyes, so these cultural attachements are seen as just that. Granted, not every Christian would agree with me, but I think most would.

I agree with Keltoi.
"submission"....brrrrrr...how does it sound?
But I'm speaking only from theoretical point of view, while Glo knows something in practice :rollseyes

[Umar001]

In our Western culture I would say it is neither habit nor culture, because our culture tells us otherwise (namely that such notions are sexist and discriminatory)
Speaking for the women I know well enough to attempt such a judgement, I would say they do it out of conviction ... but of course I cannot really speak for others ...

Peace

Actually, from the part of society which still practices Christianity properly, I see the roles of males and females very cultural, even till now. Culturaly speaking as a whole I agree with the above but within the cultural bonds of the Christians I see that the male and female roles are somewhat set out, even without the Bible. I guess we have different social friends as such, maybe you have more 'converted' Christians, where as I have more of those who were born into it and have cultural ties to it. :?

Christ went against this cultural norm when He allowed women to join His circle of disciples and to travel with Him.

Just of curiousity what was the norm? I mean women were not allowed to accompany men? As for the disciples, I have never come across any special ones, and if there were then there were women 'prophets' at that time right?

[Keltoi]

Actually, from the part of society which still practices Christianity properly, I see the roles of males and females very cultural, even till now. Culturaly speaking as a whole I agree with the above but within the cultural bonds of the Christians I see that the male and female roles are somewhat set out, even without the Bible. I guess we have different social friends as such, maybe you have more 'converted' Christians, where as I have more of those who were born into it and have cultural ties to it. :?



Just of curiousity what was the norm? I mean women were not allowed to accompany men? As for the disciples, I have never come across any special ones, and if there were then there were women 'prophets' at that time right?

As for what was the norm, I think it was apparent that Jewish women, while obviously an important part of society, had a more discreet role than that of men. Perhaps a Jewish member might shed more light on the subject. From what I know the Talmuds and the Mishnah point to more rigid guidelines than those Jesus followed in his dealings with women. As for "special" women in the New Testament, if you look at Acts 18:24, it describes Apollos visit to Ephesus where he is praised for his knowledge of Scripture, but the text states that Priscilla and Aquila took him aside and explained to him the nature of God more accurately, as he only knew about the Baptism of John. This points to the early Christian church having women of influence in high positions.

As for women prophets, it also states in Acts that Paul stays in Caesaria with Philip the evangelist whose daughters prophesied. (Acts 21:19)

In Cor 11:4-5, Paul offers advice to men and women prophets on headcovering while prophesying.

So it would seem there were indeed female prophets during this time.

[Medina83]

As for what was the norm, I think it was apparent that Jewish women, while obviously an important part of society, had a more discreet role than that of men. Perhaps a Jewish member might shed more light on the subject. From what I know the Talmuds and the Mishnah point to more rigid guidelines than those Jesus followed in his dealings with women. As for "special" women in the New Testament, if you look at Acts 18:24, it describes Apollos visit to Ephesus where he is praised for his knowledge of Scripture, but the text states that Priscilla and Aquila took him aside and explained to him the nature of God more accurately, as he only knew about the Baptism of John. This points to the early Christian church having women of influence in high positions.

As for women prophets, it also states in Acts that Paul stays in Caesaria with Philip the evangelist whose daughters prophesied. (Acts 21:19)

In Cor 11:4-5, Paul offers advice to men and women prophets on headcovering while prophesying.

So it would seem there were indeed female prophets during this time.

I think u are mixing prophets with apostles who preach...

there were women preachers but not prophets who received divine revealation

[Keltoi]

I think u are mixing prophets with apostles who preach...

there were women preachers but not prophets who received divine revealation

I'm not mixing anything, the New Testament speaks of women prophets and apostles. We can't be certain if the women or men who prophecied were receiving divine revelation, but it does in fact speak of them.

[glo]

I agree with Keltoi.
"submission"....brrrrrr...how does it sound?
But I'm speaking only from theoretical point of view, while Glo knows something in practice :rollseyes

Hi duskiness

I was telling Medina that this thread reminded me of an email exchange I had with a Christian woman from the US some years ago.
She was telling me about the Bible calling women to submit to their husbands - and I reacted very much like you did in your post! :D

All I could equate it with, was the woman being passive and helpless, whereas the husband got 'to do what he liked'
I kept thinking 'what if the beats her?', 'what if he abuses her?', 'what if he is unfaithful?' ... and imagining that the wife would have to sit back and suffer without any rights of the own.

But the husband has his rules he should obey by, namely to protect, to love, to respect. If he does those things, he would do any of those above things in the first place.

No woman should suffer abuse or injustice inside marriage or out.
Nothing should prevent a woman from taking action, when her husband does not treat her right - certainly not some warped interpretation of God's word.

Sometimes I wish I still had that American lady's email address, so I could tell her I became a Christian, and I know see some things differently ... :statisfie

[Malaikah]

:sl:

Here is a nice hadith about teh duties of the husband:

A man asked the Prophet (pbuh), "What right does a woman have over her husband?" He said:

"He should feed her when he eats and clothe her when he clothes himself; he must not strike her face nor must he sure her or say hurtful words other; and he should not forsake her except in their home"

Related by Ahmad. (Classified as hasan saheeh by Al-Albaanee)

:statisfie

[Umar001]

As for what was the norm, I think it was apparent that Jewish women, while obviously an important part of society, had a more discreet role than that of men. Perhaps a Jewish member might shed more light on the subject. From what I know the Talmuds and the Mishnah point to more rigid guidelines than those Jesus followed in his dealings with women. As for "special" women in the New Testament, if you look at Acts 18:24, it describes Apollos visit to Ephesus where he is praised for his knowledge of Scripture, but the text states that Priscilla and Aquila took him aside and explained to him the nature of God more accurately, as he only knew about the Baptism of John. This points to the early Christian church having women of influence in high positions.

As for women prophets, it also states in Acts that Paul stays in Caesaria with Philip the evangelist whose daughters prophesied. (Acts 21:19)

In Cor 11:4-5, Paul offers advice to men and women prophets on headcovering while prophesying.

So it would seem there were indeed female prophets during this time.

Well this would not then be Jesus' doing as such, I mean, I wouldnt see the above as Christ going against cultural norms, that's something I was baffled on since I hadnt seen much of that in the Gospel accounts of his life. I dont really see much that goes outside the cultural norms, maybe its 'cos I dont know the cultural norms much.

[Keltoi]

Well this would not then be Jesus' doing as such, I mean, I wouldnt see the above as Christ going against cultural norms, that's something I was baffled on since I hadnt seen much of that in the Gospel accounts of his life. I dont really see much that goes outside the cultural norms, maybe its 'cos I dont know the cultural norms much.

Actually it was the "doing" of Jesus in as far as his circle of disciples put the first Christian church into action, and women were a big part of it.

[Umar001]

Actually it was the "doing" of Jesus in as far as his circle of disciples put the first Christian church into action, and women were a big part of it.

See I think I'd regard it as his doing if he told people to or something like that, else would then disciples mistakes be rendered his doing too?

I'll look into the quotes, *gets reading glasses ready*

[glo]

See I think I'd regard it as his doing if he told people to or something like that, else would then disciples mistakes be rendered his doing too?

We are moving away from the topic of the original post, but Jesus clearly broke many cultural taboos of his time with regards to women - by his actions alone.

I am in my break at work, so I cannot look for biblical references at the moment, but a few situations that spring to mind:

As Keltoi already said, women were very much part of the group of his followers.
Jesus let himself be touched by women - see Mary who washed his feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair
Jesus let himself be touched my a menstruating woman (a BIG no-no)
Jesus spoke to non-Jewish women - the Samaritan woman by the well

All these things must have been quite controversial at that time.

That's all for now ... :)

[Keltoi]

See I think I'd regard it as his doing if he told people to or something like that, else would then disciples mistakes be rendered his doing too?

I'll look into the quotes, *gets reading glasses ready*

After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out; Joanna the wife of Cuza, the manager of Herod’s household: Susanna: and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means. (Luke 8:1-3)

There is a passage I found referring to the women who traveled with Christ. From what I know of early Jewish custom in regards to women, this was a radical situation indeed. Notice I said Jewish "custom", because while there are some sexist passages in Jewish religious texts, the role of women was respected in the Old Testament much more than it was in practice during the time of Christ.