Kuwait will not Allow US troops to use bases in kuwait to attack Iran

[Sami Zaatari]

Kuwait says US cannot use bases for any Iran strike

KUWAIT CITY, June 11 (AFP) Jun 11, 2007
Kuwait, a staunch US ally, said on Monday it would not allow the United States to use its territory as a launch-pad for any attack on Iran over its nuclear programme.
"The United States did not ask (to use Kuwaiti military facilities for any attack) and even if it did, we will not allow anybody to use our territory," defence and interior minister Sheikh Jaber al-Mubarak al-Sabah told reporters.

Kuwait served as the launch-pad for the US invasion of Iraq in 2003 and remains the main staging point for US-led troops in the country. Around 15,000 US troops are stationed at several bases in the emirate.

On Sunday, visiting Iranian parliament speaker Gholam Ali Hadad Adel said Tehran would hit US military bases in Gulf states if they were used in an attack on his country.

"If this actually happens, we will be forced to defend ourselves... We will target those bases or points," he said.

Washington has always said it wants to resolve the nuclear crisis through diplomacy, but has never ruled out using military action to bring Tehran to heel.

Iran consistently denies it is trying to build nuclear weapons and says it merely wants to generate energy.


(http://www.spacewar.com/2006/070611113049.j2vkusak.html) (can also be found on reuters and gulf agencies)

good news, at least these gulf states arent being puppets anymore, the UAE has also said it will not allow the US to use bases in the UAE against iran. bahrain will also do likewise. now other than this this news reveals something else, that these small gulf arab countries now feel they can say no to USA! a few years ago it would be unthinkable for their politicians to even think of it, but the USA has lost its stature and position hence these gulf arabs now feel strong enough to even say no. :)

the only way the US and Israel will be able to launch a war against iran will be by air, and precision missile strikes, and that isnt really gonna hurt the iranian goverment at all since they have most likely already planned for such an event. many keep talking about all out war with iran, but this wont happen, because the logistics for such a war is too much and too hard to even control and make! because nearyby countries arent going to let the US use them as bases, hence how and where will they put the tanks, the humvees and etc etc. if you cant stop the usa by words, and diplomacy, then simply cut their hands off, by that i mean dont let them use neighboring countries for bases and the US is literally tied up and cant launch a major offensive attack unless its air and precision guided missiles which i said wont do much harm. :) countries are wising up now.

[Zman]

:sl:/Peace To All

Alhamdulillah. Good for them...

[Keltoi]

Kuwait says US cannot use bases for any Iran strike

KUWAIT CITY, June 11 (AFP) Jun 11, 2007
Kuwait, a staunch US ally, said on Monday it would not allow the United States to use its territory as a launch-pad for any attack on Iran over its nuclear programme.
"The United States did not ask (to use Kuwaiti military facilities for any attack) and even if it did, we will not allow anybody to use our territory," defence and interior minister Sheikh Jaber al-Mubarak al-Sabah told reporters.

Kuwait served as the launch-pad for the US invasion of Iraq in 2003 and remains the main staging point for US-led troops in the country. Around 15,000 US troops are stationed at several bases in the emirate.

On Sunday, visiting Iranian parliament speaker Gholam Ali Hadad Adel said Tehran would hit US military bases in Gulf states if they were used in an attack on his country.

"If this actually happens, we will be forced to defend ourselves... We will target those bases or points," he said.

Washington has always said it wants to resolve the nuclear crisis through diplomacy, but has never ruled out using military action to bring Tehran to heel.

Iran consistently denies it is trying to build nuclear weapons and says it merely wants to generate energy.


(http://www.spacewar.com/2006/070611113049.j2vkusak.html) (can also be found on reuters and gulf agencies)

good news, at least these gulf states arent being puppets anymore, the UAE has also said it will not allow the US to use bases in the UAE against iran. bahrain will also do likewise. now other than this this news reveals something else, that these small gulf arab countries now feel they can say no to USA! a few years ago it would be unthinkable for their politicians to even think of it, but the USA has lost its stature and position hence these gulf arabs now feel strong enough to even say no. :)

the only way the US and Israel will be able to launch a war against iran will be by air, and precision missile strikes, and that isnt really gonna hurt the iranian goverment at all since they have most likely already planned for such an event. many keep talking about all out war with iran, but this wont happen, because the logistics for such a war is too much and too hard to even control and make! because nearyby countries arent going to let the US use them as bases, hence how and where will they put the tanks, the humvees and etc etc. if you cant stop the usa by words, and diplomacy, then simply cut their hands off, by that i mean dont let them use neighboring countries for bases and the US is literally tied up and cant launch a major offensive attack unless its air and precision guided missiles which i said wont do much harm. :) countries are wising up now.

You don't think an air war can do serious harm? You might want to think hard about that one. As for Kuwait, it is useful for shuttling supplies and manpower into Iraq in the context of an occupation, but any theoretical war against Iran won't be an occupation. More than likely it will be aircraft carriers in the Persian Gulf that will strike at Iran, in the unlikely event military action takes place. A strategic air campaign would be devastating for the Iranians, although probably not completely effective at wiping out all the nuclear sites.

[Bittersteel]

yeah good.they get my respect.you see the Iraq war did the trick.KSA kicked out the US forces when they invaded Iraq and now the Persian Gulf Arabs will do so if another war happens.good.
hang on you sure the link is reliable?although Oman has already stated they have no interest in having a fight with Iran.
well this is news for me definitely.all I have been hearing is about sanctions and plans for bombings(even with nukes).maybe some hope these air campaigns will weaken the government a rebellion might occur to bring a change.

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[vpb]

good news, at least these gulf states arent being puppets anymore, the UAE has also said it will not allow the US to use bases in the UAE against iran. bahrain will also do likewise. now other than this this news reveals something else, that these small gulf arab countries now feel they can say no to USA! a few years ago it would be unthinkable for their politicians to even think of it, but the USA has lost its stature and position hence these gulf arabs now feel strong enough to even say no.

just bc they say on media "we will not allow them" does that mean it is true? it is possible that they say this for the sake of the medias, but inside the matter is totally different. and here we are dealing with things which haven't happened, but they are just making assumptions.

[Sinbad]

You don't think an air war can do serious harm? You might want to think hard about that one. As for Kuwait, it is useful for shuttling supplies and manpower into Iraq in the context of an occupation, but any theoretical war against Iran won't be an occupation. More than likely it will be aircraft carriers in the Persian Gulf that will strike at Iran, in the unlikely event military action takes place. A strategic air campaign would be devastating for the Iranians, although probably not completely effective at wiping out all the nuclear sites.

Iran is no super power. But the ones commanding hezbullah when Israel invaded where Iranian commanders. They also shoot down an israeli destroyer.

Iran has rockets that hits out sattelites.

Iran has no atom bombs yet, but they got other stuff.
Kuwait is a small nation wiht 500.000 people, the other stuff can be harmfull to them.

[vpb]

Kuwait is a small nation wiht 500.000 people, the other stuff can be harmfull to them.

it is a small nation, but they a lot of money. even to use tham as napkins.

[islamirama]

The coward US rained bombs day and night on afghanistan being afraid of a few tribal people with worn out guns of USSR era. when even there weren't animals being seen moving, then they sent in the troops. They did the same with iraq and now they still can't manage to get a handle on it.

A war in Iran is a suicide for US. Iran promised to attack all US bases in the Gulf regardless of those arab states helping US or not. It also is ready to attack Israel as zionists are itching to get this war started. In addition to that, chavez also showed support and stated an attack on Iran will compel him to defend his ally. Since US can't handle iraq in its weakend state, i doubt they have much of a chance against Iran who is bigger, stronger and preparing for the day since the day Iraq was invaded.

[Keltoi]

Iran is no super power. But the ones commanding hezbullah when Israel invaded where Iranian commanders. They also shoot down an israeli destroyer.

Iran has rockets that hits out sattelites.

Iran has no atom bombs yet, but they got other stuff.
Kuwait is a small nation wiht 500.000 people, the other stuff can be harmfull to them.

Iran can threaten Kuwait with rockets and the like, just as Saddam shot rockets at Israel during the first Gulf War, but their effectiveness is a big question mark. I'm also rather dubious about the "rockets that hits sattelites" claim.

[Keltoi]

The coward US rained bombs day and night on afghanistan being afraid of a few tribal people with worn out guns of USSR era. when even there weren't animals being seen moving, then they sent into the troops. They did the same with iraq and now they still can't manage to get a handle on it.

A war in Iran is a suicide for US. Iran promised to attack all US bases in the Gulf regardless of those arab states helping US or not. It also is ready to attack Israel as zionists are itching to get this war started. In addition to that, chavez also showed support and stated an attack on Iran will compel him to defend his ally. Since US can't handle iraq in its weakend state, i doubt they have much of a chance against Iran who is bigger, stronger and preparing for the day since the day Iraq was invaded.

:rollseyes It's called war. You kill your enemies. Also, there were U.S. troops on the ground before the war even started, mostly special forces working with the Northern Alliance. The campaign was mostly an air war because the Taliban were retreating into the mountains. Those that stayed to defend the cities were wiped up rather quickly. As General Patton famously said, "It's not a soldier's job to die for his country, it's to make the other b****** die for his".

As for Iraq, the Iraqi military evaporated the minute U.S. troops crossed the border, at least for the most part. I'm sure there were pockets of bravery...but there is a fine line between bravery and foolishness. The problem started when 150,000 U.S. troops were expected to police and stabilize a country the size of Texas. That was a strategic blunder, and we're paying for it now.

[Bittersteel]

They also shoot down an israeli destroyer.

with its systems turned off or something.that's what the Israelis said atleast.

As General Patton famously said, "It's not a soldier's job to die for his country, it's to make the other b****** die for his".

completely true.I admired Patton always and I think Iranians should do that actually instead of dying,because that never works.put up some air defence,use everything you have got ,bring down as many planes as you can ,take fewer casualties.Iranians are patriotic ,even the ones who hate the Islamic administration.

[Keltoi]

with its systems turned off or something.that's what the Israelis said atleast.

completely true.I admired Patton always and I think Iranians should do that actually instead of dying,coz that never works.

Of course the not dying part is hard to do in war of any kind.

[Zman]

More than likely it will be aircraft carriers in the Persian Gulf that will strike at Iran, in the unlikely event military action takes place. A strategic air campaign would be devastating for the Iranians, although probably not completely effective at wiping out all the nuclear sites.

If we ever left the carriers in the Persian Gulf, they would be sitting ducks for an Iranian retaliation.

The Iranians said that any attack, will be met with a fierce retaliatory strike (whether it came from within or without the Persian Gulf).

Don't forget we have bases ringing them, especially in Afghanistan and Iraq. Their strike woon't be crippling for us, but, it sure as hell will hurt a lot.

Don't underestimate Iran. They aren't Iraq...

I'm also rather dubious about the "rockets that hits sattelites" claim.

They have the capability to build sattelites, they Just haven't developed a rocket that can take them into space.

I think China is the only nation that succeeded in taking out a satellite with a ground-based missile.

We can do it, but only from an F-15 at high altitude...

:rollseyes It's called war. You kill your enemies. Also, there were U.S. troops on the ground before the war even started, mostly special forces working with the Northern Alliance. The campaign was mostly an air war because the Taliban were retreating into the mountains.

We could have had more boots on the ground. But, we opted to leave that role for the Northern Alliance...

[Sinbad]

Iran can threaten Kuwait with rockets and the like, just as Saddam shot rockets at Israel during the first Gulf War, but their effectiveness is a big question mark. I'm also rather dubious about the "rockets that hits sattelites" claim.

Iran is not iraq, Iraq was a defencless nation burried in debt and with an outdated army.

Dont think Iran can hurt the mighty US?

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/826019.html

remember that? When Iranian soldiers painted an IRanian symbol on a US destroyer in the gulf?

Iran is even getting a spy sattelite.
http://www.isracast.com/transcripts/230905b_trans.htm

Iran has the latest defence system from russia, Thor M1
http://www.defense-update.com/products/t/tor.htm

dont be arrogant whatever you do. Iran will not be like afghanistan or Iraq.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

I'd say if the US or whatever goes on with this, it'll be a huge mistake on their part.

[Trumble]

In addition to that, chavez also showed support and stated an attack on Iran will compel him to defend his ally.

With what? The Pentagon is suitably terrified, I'm sure. :rollseyes

[Sami Zaatari]

iran is certainly not like iraq and afghanistan, because not only is iran capable of defending itself, one thing many ppl dont realize is that the iranian regime are actually not hated to the limit where the majority of the people will lay down and side with US as happened in iraq in the beggining of the war. the notion that the majority of iranians are waiting for freedom from the US and hating their regime is PROPAGANDA garbage which is spewed by largely anti-islamic iranian pagans and christians living in california! as they say go figure!

i am half iranian and i fully support the regime, however so my iranian side of the familly arent too fond of the regime, infact they dont like them, however so having said that they dont like the US neither and they sure as heck dont want the US bombing their country. hence iran isnt like iraq and afghan where the ppl were largely oppressed and below poverty wanting a way out, that isnt the case in iran. so therefore not only will the iranian army defend its country, but the people will as well, dont forget many iranians are extemly proud of their heritage and history and they will NEVER allow a western nation to come occupy and attack them.

but westerners who dont know jack about iran, and who never visited iran, or who dont even know any iranians in iran want to talk like they know all, but its good, because ignorance and under-estimation is always the cause that causes one side to lose the war and the other to win, and right now the US is under-estimating iran and being ignorant about what the population really feels and wants.

and also any chances of the iranian people actually supporting the US to attack and occupy their country was completly erased with the fiasco of iraq, they now see what will happen if they actually rely on the US to come to their stable country. The american army and goverment shud simply stay in their own borders and stop acting like your the saviour of the world and that everyone wants you, cause they dont, stick to usa, dont come to iran and ruin it to bring your bankrupt way of life, iranians already have their own culture, and own way of life, they dont need your western bankruptcy way of life, keep it in america plz and start respecting others and yourself. and im saying this AS an iranian muslim, keep your silly guns in your own country cause we dont want none of your arrogance, stupidity, nor your plans for the country, because we all know its all for your own interests which are simply the interests of that theiving state called israel. thank you. go fix your own illegal alien mexicon problems plz, stay out of our country.

[MTAFFI]

I dont see Iran getting attacked anytime soon, the US is obviously a little preoccupied right now. As far as Kuwait saying they wont allow the US to use their bases, we will see if the time actually comes. As far as Iran and their military being superior or comparable to the US military....lol... It is a fact that the US military is without a doubt far superior, the little story about the Iranian sketch, do tell, how was that sketch done, underwater? lol yeah an Iranian submarine went below a US vessel and out smarted the radar all for the chance to "sketch" on one of our ships....lol.. that is just stupid, the whole satelitte thing, well since the iranians have been talking about it since what 1998, I am not too worried about it. Also who said the US cant take out satelittes with missles? Perhaps you would like to take a look at the missle systems that have been made public. They are the most advanced in the world, even to "chinas"
Also dont forget about the 22 stealth bombers that are just waiting for a chance to drop a 40,000 lb payload on Iran. So talk it up my middle eastern loving friends, you always do but when it comes time for war because of all these threats and this big talk, you will be singing yet another oppressive story about how the big bad american military bombed your country to rubble and left nothing but a big brown stain on the map.

(By the way, I know that whole paragraph sounds like I am hoping for war but I am not, I just get sick of hearing the same old rhetoric about how Iran is some sort of middle eastern superpower just because Ahmadinjehad runs his mouth to much)

[Sinbad]

Why do you feel the need to flex your american muscles towards Iran? Israel is one o the strongest nations in the world, they lost towards hizbullah. Americans say that hizbullah didnt win cause Israel was not destroyed, and more Lebanese infrastructure was destroyed than Israeli.

But Israel and the rest of the world see 40.000 israelis invading lebanon with 3000 hizbullahs with Iranian commanders preventing them from reaching beirut, and thats the rules.

Yes America is the worlds only super power et c, but they will lose many soldiers and ships if attacking Iran, even if Iran is a moderate nations with sanctions.

[Noor]

This step may seem to be Kuwait's way of re-constructing their back-bone, however, it does not change the fact that Kuwait like other filthy rich Arab nations are a disgust to their Palestinian and Somali Muslim bethren who they,Kuwait and the infamous KSA still continue to ignore, while they, living in refugee camp are fighting to stay alive.

[Sami Zaatari]

I dont see Iran getting attacked anytime soon, the US is obviously a little preoccupied right now. As far as Kuwait saying they wont allow the US to use their bases, we will see if the time actually comes. As far as Iran and their military being superior or comparable to the US military....lol... It is a fact that the US military is without a doubt far superior, the little story about the Iranian sketch, do tell, how was that sketch done, underwater? lol yeah an Iranian submarine went below a US vessel and out smarted the radar all for the chance to "sketch" on one of our ships....lol.. that is just stupid, the whole satelitte thing, well since the iranians have been talking about it since what 1998, I am not too worried about it. Also who said the US cant take out satelittes with missles? Perhaps you would like to take a look at the missle systems that have been made public. They are the most advanced in the world, even to "chinas"
Also dont forget about the 22 stealth bombers that are just waiting for a chance to drop a 40,000 lb payload on Iran. So talk it up my middle eastern loving friends, you always do but when it comes time for war because of all these threats and this big talk, you will be singing yet another oppressive story about how the big bad american military bombed your country to rubble and left nothing but a big brown stain on the map.

(By the way, I know that whole paragraph sounds like I am hoping for war but I am not, I just get sick of hearing the same old rhetoric about how Iran is some sort of middle eastern superpower just because Ahmadinjehad runs his mouth to much)

last i checked it was you americans crying and running in the street and living in fear up to this day when 2 of your towers went down, or did you forget that? so actually it is you who makes these cheap threats and big talks, but when the war reaches your turf, we see how strong you really (bunch of running crying sissies who still live in fear for 6 years!)

hezbollah with 2000 man held a 10000 idf force, iraqi insurgents wearing sandals are making your american army look like a bunch of jokes. so lol your stealth bombers wont really do much, as we saw with israelis non stop air attacks, they achieved NOTHING. war is changing and has changed, all these fancy technological weapons you have are pretty much useless in the warfare that goes on today, and we see that in iraq, and saw it in lebanon. :)

so plz go ahead with your plans of bombing iran, no doubt iran will do a few of their own bombings against you :) and then we will see you americans crying like babies and acting all innocent saying "why do they hate us :laugh: " "why did they do this :laugh: "

[Amadeus85]

I think that if Iran's president doesn't talk so much about destroying Israel, threre would be no threat of attacking this country. But if Iran really gets an A Bomb in future , i think that Ahmadinejad is crazy enough to use it against Israel. And in this situation Israel will have a right to defend itself.
Its funny thing with Iran. While most arab reigimes are pro american and pro west, and arab citizens are anti west and anti american, in Iran the state is extre,ely anti american and the people are pro american and pro west, and also good educated people, especially the young generation.

[Sinbad]

I think that if Iran's president doesn't talk so much about destroying Israel, threre would be no threat of attacking this country. But if Iran really gets an A Bomb in future , i think that Ahmadinejad is crazy enough to use it against Israel. And in this situation Israel will have a right to defend itself.
Its funny thing with Iran. While most arab reigimes are pro american and pro west, and arab citizens are anti west and anti american, in Iran the state is extre,ely anti american and the people are pro american and pro west, and also good educated people, especially the young generation.

First of all, ahmadjinedad has no political or military power, hes just a crazy person with a big mouth, that won an election where 10% voted and all of them poor beliving he would make things better.

And yes the Iranian people hate the iranian regime. But they would never side with the enemy that invades, the best thing you can do is to wait ut out, there will be a second revolution but tha takes time.

[islamirama]

I think that if Iran's president doesn't talk so much about destroying Israel, threre would be no threat of attacking this country. But if Iran really gets an A Bomb in future , i think that Ahmadinejad is crazy enough to use it against Israel. And in this situation Israel will have a right to defend itself.
Its funny thing with Iran. While most arab reigimes are pro american and pro west, and arab citizens are anti west and anti american, in Iran the state is extre,ely anti american and the people are pro american and pro west, and also good educated people, especially the young generation.

I disagree. Iran has enough conventional weapons to wipe israel of the map but even that quote is misquoted by the media. He doesn't mean to genocide them like the west doest, but to send them back they came from (europe). Anyways, an A bomb will not be used on Israel as that would mean destruction and killing of palestinians also and other Muslims in the area. If you look at the history of Iran, it has hardly ever attacked any nation in the world. Who is more dangerous, a nation that has never waged war (iran) or a nation that wages one war after the other (US)?

[Sami Zaatari]

I think that if Iran's president doesn't talk so much about destroying Israel, threre would be no threat of attacking this country. But if Iran really gets an A Bomb in future , i think that Ahmadinejad is crazy enough to use it against Israel. And in this situation Israel will have a right to defend itself.
Its funny thing with Iran. While most arab reigimes are pro american and pro west, and arab citizens are anti west and anti american, in Iran the state is extre,ely anti american and the people are pro american and pro west, and also good educated people, especially the young generation.

thats actually another piece of propaganda garbage which you yourself havent checked upon. iranians are anti-western policies etc, just like arabs, arabs dont hate the average american joe shmoe its your policies, and many iranains feel the same, so plzzzzzzz enough with your propaganda! what a rude awakening you will get when you go into iran thinking they love you and hail you as heroes! lol stop listening to these pagan and christian iranians living in california who are 100% anti-Islamic and hate Islam etc.

[Amadeus85]

First of all, ahmadjinedad has no political or military power, hes just a crazy person with a big mouth, that won an election where 10% voted and all of them poor beliving he would make things better.

And yes the Iranian people hate the iranian regime. But they would never side with the enemy that invades, the best thing you can do is to wait ut out, there will be a second revolution but tha takes time.

You are so right Sinbad.

[Sami Zaatari]

First of all, ahmadjinedad has no political or military power, hes just a crazy person with a big mouth, that won an election where 10% voted and all of them poor beliving he would make things better.

And yes the Iranian people hate the iranian regime. But they would never side with the enemy that invades, the best thing you can do is to wait ut out, there will be a second revolution but tha takes time.

this is the way many feel, that there should be a gradual way of making things normal, not through war and bombings and invasion. infact the iranian regime wish for you to attack them, because it will bring up all the sentimental nationalism etc and make the ppl side with the goverment! not only in iran, but the entire muslim world!

[Amadeus85]

. Anyways, an A bomb will not be used on Israel as that would mean destruction and killing of palestinians also and other Muslims in the area.

I see, so if in Israel lived Jews only , it would be ok to nuke them right?

Salam. :D

[MTAFFI]

last i checked it was you americans crying and running in the street and living in fear up to this day when 2 of your towers went down, or did you forget that? so actually it is you who makes these cheap threats and big talks, but when the war reaches your turf, we see how strong you really (bunch of running crying sissies who still live in fear for 6 years!)

Nope Sami we didnt forget that, and neither will the people of Afghanistan or Iraq for a long time huh? Last I checked our country is back to normal functioning as one of the strongest in the world, how are the two nations that were held responsible? Yes our civilians ran in fear for their lives when those buildings crashed just like anyone would, but our government did not, like the governments in the middle east did when their buildings started crashing.

hezbollah with 2000 man held a 10000 idf force, iraqi insurgents wearing sandals are making your american army look like a bunch of jokes. so lol your stealth bombers wont really do much, as we saw with israelis non stop air attacks, they achieved NOTHING. war is changing and has changed, all these fancy technological weapons you have are pretty much useless in the warfare that goes on today, and we see that in iraq, and saw it in lebanon. :)

again you show your low level of competency. hezbollah "held" the israelis? LOL the Israelis were stopped by the UN and had they not had the decency they did they didnt have to bother with ground troops, they could have just bombed the whole place to peices, but that isnt war it is just defence, by the way how many rockets has hezbollah fired lately? lol :) mission accomplished
War hasnt changed, just your perception of it, you take Iraq as a war, please, it is occupation and an attempt to preserve life not take it. Maybe you should go back and take a look at the first couple day of the Iraqi war, when it was a war, when the leader of that country literally dug a hole for himself. Perhaps that is what you should do dig a hole for yourself

so plz go ahead with your plans of bombing iran, no doubt iran will do a few of their own bombings against you :) and then we will see you americans crying like babies and acting all innocent saying "why do they hate us :laugh: " "why did they do this :laugh: "

go ahead lets see what you can get on our soil... what is really funny about that is that while you sit here laughing like it is funny there wont be anyone left in Iran to laugh :laugh:

[Sinbad]

again you show your low level of competency. hezbollah "held" the israelis? LOL the Israelis were stopped by the UN and had they not had the decency they did they didnt have to bother with ground troops, they could have just bombed the whole place to peices, but that isnt war it is just defence, by the way how many rockets has hezbollah fired lately? lol :) mission accomplished

go ahead lets see what you can get on our soil... what is really funny about that is that while you sit here laughing like it is funny there wont be anyone left in Iran to laugh :laugh:

That is enough for me. "the un stopped Israel", they cant stop anything, they are just the creation of a man made fantasy of world peace.

Israel used them as an excuse to retreat.

That last comment was hearth braking, i wish you had a hearth to know what you just said.

[MTAFFI]

That is enough for me. "the un stopped Israel", they cant stop anything, they are just the creation of a man made fantasy of world peace.

I would agree with that

Israel used them as an excuse to retreat.

No the UN is a group of nations that Israel has to stay in line with otherwise they will lose their backing. Look at the statistics, Israel lost a little over 100 men, people on the other side were dropping like flies, the problem with this is who knows who was a militant or a civilian. I think Israel actually quit because what was the point? They werent getting any prisoners back and they were destroying innocent people homes and jobs just to try to prove a point. It was a waste of time

That last comment was hearth braking, i wish you had a hearth to know what you just said.

I am assuming you meant "heart" breaking. I have plenty of heart, which is why in my first post I put, that I dont wish for war with Iran. In fact, I have no problem with Iranians, I hope that one day Iranians and Americans can share goals and have peace, and if it werent for our governments we very well could. However, dont expect me to sit here and listen to the violent and unsympathetic ramblings of an ignoramous like Sami Zataari talk about the lost lives of 9/11 and try to make my country look like cowards. Cowards are people who hide, cowards are people who use civilian targets as a way to get at a government, cowards are people who dont take responsibility for their actions and rather than say "My country did this" They make up umbrella names like "al-qaeda" to front the bill.

[NobleMuslimUK]

When the zionist controlled America decided to attack Iraq after the assault on defenceless Afghanistan, I thought this would be the end of the Evil American empire, Allah knows best. This next war could get really messy with Iran. When Allah will's He will destroy the kuffar nations but for that the muslim ummah need to unite. Maybe in the kuffar nations there are many people Allah may want to guide to Islam instead of destroying them. Allah knows best.

[MTAFFI]

When the zionist controlled America decided to attack Iraq after the assault on defenceless Afghanistan, I thought this would be the end of the Evil American empire, Allah knows best. This next war could get really messy with Iran. When Allah will's He will destroy the kuffar nations but for that the muslim ummah need to unite. Maybe in the kuffar nations there are many people Allah may want to guide to Islam instead of destroying them. Allah knows best.

I live in the west and the more I actually learn about Islam the more attractive it becomes, I am sure there are many all over the world that Allah wishes to guide to Islam. Just remember, just because people in the mid east live where Islam originated, doesnt mean that they are any better than the "Kuffar" of the west, it may be them who is the "Evil Empire" and they may be the ones that Allah decides to "destroy"

[NobleMuslimUK]

I live in the west and the more I actually learn about Islam the more attractive it becomes, I am sure there are many all over the world that Allah wishes to guide to Islam. Just remember, just because people in the mid east live where Islam originated, doesnt mean that they are any better than the "Kuffar" of the west, it may be them who is the "Evil Empire" and they may be the ones that Allah (pbuh) decides to "destroy"

Yes, this could be very well true, as the western reverts usually follow Islam more better than muslims born in a muslim family. But dont get me wrong when I mean destruction of an evil empire its in regards to the corrupt governments, since governments hide most things and deceive people that they govern.
Allah is punishing the muslim nations as they too became too corrupt we can see this happening around the world today.

Allah swt knows best

[Amadeus85]

When the zionist controlled America decided to attack Iraq after the assault on defenceless Afghanistan, I thought this would be the end of the Evil American empire, Allah knows best. This next war could get really messy with Iran. When Allah will's He will destroy the kuffar nations but for that the muslim ummah need to unite. Maybe in the kuffar nations there are many people Allah may want to guide to Islam instead of destroying them. Allah knows best.

Speach of a peace. Saalam :D

[Joe98]

Iran .........They also shoot down an israeli destroyer.

What was the altitude of the destroyer at the time?:D :D :D

[Hashim_507]

Alhamdullilah,

Kuwait made an excellent decision.

[Ra`eesah]

Yea but they had 1000 US troops in 2003 to attack Iraq.

[BanGuLLy]

Thats good to hear :)

[Sami Zaatari]

I live in the west and the more I actually learn about Islam the more attractive it becomes, I am sure there are many all over the world that Allah wishes to guide to Islam. Just remember, just because people in the mid east live where Islam originated, doesnt mean that they are any better than the "Kuffar" of the west, it may be them who is the "Evil Empire" and they may be the ones that Allah (pbuh) decides to "destroy"

maybe your a future muslim? +o(

[NobleMuslimUK]

and they may be the ones that Allah (pbuh) decides to "destroy"

A correction here your not meant to say Allah pbuh=peace be upon him, Its Allah's peace that we seek, since there no one greater than Allah than its contradictory to say Allah pbuh.

[Chiteng]

I dont think it matters.

You have two options:

A world where Iran has Nukes

A world where Iran does NOT have Nukes

You cannot have both. Somewhere at sometime, someone will have to make
a decision.

One thing is certain, NOTHING is certain in war.

[MTAFFI]

A correction here your not meant to say Allah pbuh=peace be upon him, Its Allah's peace that we seek, since there no one greater than Allah than its contradictory to say Allah pbuh.

corrected, sorry about that

[MTAFFI]

maybe your a future muslim? +o(

why does that make you sick? because our views in regards to politics and world affairs differ?? Who really cares, it makes me sick that I was detered from reading the quran once by someone like yourself

[Sami Zaatari]

why does that make you sick? because our views in regards to politics and world affairs differ?? Who really cares, it makes me sick that I was detered from reading the quran once by someone like yourself

me and u dont just disagree on politics, nop.

[Trumble]

He doesn't mean to genocide them like the west doest, but to send them back they came from (europe).

Most of those people are now dead, the current generation were born there. They will not be "sent back" by anybody. It's been tried before, remember? All talk of same achieves is a continuation of current hostile Israeli policy when the only thing that will actually help the Palestinians (as opposed to their armchair supporters) is a peaceful, viable two-state solution.

What does the conflict have to do with Iran, anyway? The answer is nothing whatsoever; it's between Israelis and Arabs. If the Americans should keep their nose out of other peoples business so should Iran. It's just cheap popularist rhetoric for the benefit of the gullible.

[Sinbad]

I dont think it matters.

You have two options:

A world where Iran has Nukes

A world where Iran does NOT have Nukes

You cannot have both. Somewhere at sometime, someone will have to make
a decision.

One thing is certain, NOTHING is certain in war.

Stop watching FOX and listen to the cold heart truth a little.

North Korea are much much more hostile than Iran, they sent a missile to Japan as a threat for not stopping to send aid.
The korean border is always tense, little battles pop up here and there.

When did Iran send missiles when it was not in war? How is the iraq/afghanistan borders with Iran?

North Korea has nukes! Have the world ended?

Libya have nukes, Pakistan have nukes, India has nukes, it is said saudi arabia have 6 from america. China have nukes, Russia have nukes.

And of course the most aggressive ones of all America, France, England, Israel.
America even used it twice.

What will Iran having nukes going to change anything? I you want to prevent a disaster, prevent the building of the arab bomb. Those nations, yemen, Saudi Arabia, will soon collapse when the oil time is over, and they will be ******stan, 9/11 will be the national day.

So stop watching Fox News and realize that we are living in the atomic age.

Dont complain about Iran when there are a dussin more violent states that has and is getting it.

[Chiteng]

Stop watching FOX and listen to the cold heart truth a little.

North Korea are much much more hostile than Iran, they sent a missile to Japan as a threat for not stopping to send aid.
The korean border is always tense, little battles pop up here and there.

When did Iran send missiles when it was not in war? How is the iraq/afghanistan borders with Iran?

North Korea has nukes! Have the world ended?

Libya have nukes, Pakistan have nukes, India has nukes, it is said saudi arabia have 6 from america. China have nukes, Russia have nukes.

And of course the most aggressive ones of all America, France, England, Israel.
America even used it twice.

What will Iran having nukes going to change anything? I you want to prevent a disaster, prevent the building of the arab bomb. Those nations, yemen, Saudi Arabia, will soon collapse when the oil time is over, and they will be ******stan, 9/11 will be the national day.

So stop watching Fox News and realize that we are living in the atomic age.

Dont complain about Iran when there are a dussin more violent states that has and is getting it.

First allow me to be perfectly clear, I am an old man and I understand all
too well what is at stake.

"if you want peace prepare for war" - Vegetius
“The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must”. -Thucydides

I dont wish to see my culture be on the end of that truism.

I do watch FoxNews, but only for amusement.
I dont really like the Prez much.
When you try to patronize someone, it is much better if you spell the words correctly.

So we are back to assumptions:
I dont agree that the House of Saud has nuclear weapons
Nor Libya
Nor North Korea

The options are:

A world where Iran has nuclear weapons
or
A world where Iran does NOT have nuclear weapons

Because that is what they want. And they are willing to see their entire
country destroyed, rather than not obtain those weapons.

I think that attitude speaks a great deal about the country of Iran.

[guyabano]

I see, so if in Israel lived Jews only , it would be ok to nuke them right?

Salam. :D

I guess you can call that a 'Selective Bomb'. I would not be surprised if Iran would have such a 'Kuffar'-Bomb since they can take down satellites and do paintjobs on Vessels. :D

PS: I love this muscle flexing in this thread. Keep it up guys, I get another box of Popcorn ! :D

[islamirama]

I guess you can call that a 'Selective Bomb'. I would not be surprised if Iran would have such a 'Kuffar'-Bomb since they can take down satellites and do paintjobs on Vessels. :D

PS: I love this muscle flexing in this thread. Keep it up guys, I get another box of Popcorn ! :D

Interesting that you mention "selective bomb", a few years back i read a similiar article. It stated that the Israeli were testing to make an arab bomb that would wipe out only arabs. They were playing with gene testing and what not. Making a human only or one species only bomb is hard enough and here they are attempting at pinpoint a race out. :rollseyes

[MTAFFI]

me and u dont just disagree on politics, nop.

interesting how you think you know me so intimately, but in any case it doesnt really matter does it

[Cognescenti]

Interesting that you mention "selective bomb", a few years back i read a similiar article. It stated that the Israeli were testing to make an arab bomb that would wipe out only arabs. They were playing with gene testing and what not. Making a human only or one species only bomb is hard enough and here they are attempting at pinpoint a race out. :rollseyes

Oh please. That is completely preposterous. Have you considered that because it is so preposterous, it might not have any truth to it? You, in my humble opinion should you be so gracious as to accept it, need to reduce the selectivity of your BS filter a bit...

[Cognescenti]

Back to the thread.

The Kuwaitis are.....ready for it......afraid of the Iranians. Kuwait City is only about 40 mi away from the Iranian frontier. The Iranians have between perhaps 450 and 600 Scud B and Scud C missiles with ranges of over 200 miles. The are a very old technology and have a CEP-50 of 850 meters (Circular Error Probable...50% will land within a radius of 850 m of the target). That is really pretty lousy so they are only really useful when fired at very large targets (like a city). For comaprison, the US Trident missile warhead fired from a submarine 6000 miles away has a CEP of 90 m (with a nucelar warhead) :) As the Iranians would be unlikely to do much damage to a US base with these (Scuds) unless they fired dozens...they would most likely do exactly what they did in the Iran/Iraq war..fire them at Arab cities (in Dubai, Oman, Qatr, Kuwait).

Now..add to this the fact that, in my opinion, the Kuwaitis are an effete and coddled lot who couldn't change the spark plugs on their BMW 7 series with the help of color-coded tools and an animated video with a talking camel. Their wealth came not from their own effort but because foreign engineers found black gold under all the camel dung. Most of the hard work of the country is done by imported labor from the PI or Palestine or Bangladesh etc, etc. They were completely unprepared to deal with SH

Why should we expect anything different from them?

[beespreeteam]

Will definitely be interesting.

[islamirama]

Oh please. That is completely preposterous. Have you considered that because it is so preposterous, it might not have any truth to it? You, in my humble opinion should you be so gracious as to accept it, need to reduce the selectivity of your BS filter a bit...

I didn't say i believe it, i said i read it a while back. Even if it is true, it is very unlikely as we are not that advance in our technology and chemistry nor will we get there in the next 100yrs.


I think kuwait is wise to not offer US any base, seeing how they will face total annhilation being so close to Iran.

[Gangster No.1]

If the americans do decide to sum how, and i think they will sum how want to attack iran, as they do what they want, but any how if America and there alies DO attack iran, then bye, bye america, because they will definatley be bombared, iran will fight back, like no one has seen, say they do have WMD, nuclear etc, then i would be happy 2 c them attack the kafr. personally speaking here, they deserve it, and the rest of the muslims would definatley start to join forces.

The signs of day of judgment are everywhere, and still coming more and more, it wud be NO SUPRISE if the USA do attack.

Just be ready to be defeated later on, by the MUSLIMS across the globe, inshlah.

[islamirama]

If the americans do decide to sum how, and i think they will sum how want to attack iran, as they do what they want, but any how if America and there alies DO attack iran, then bye, bye america, because they will definatley be bombared, iran will fight back, like no one has seen, say they do have WMD, nuclear etc, then i would be happy 2 c them attack the kafr. personally speaking here, they deserve it, and the rest of the muslims would definatley start to join forces.

The signs of day of judgment are everywhere, and still coming more and more, it wud be NO SUPRISE if the USA do attack.

Just be ready to be defeated later on, by the MUSLIMS across the globe, inshlah.

I wouldn't be surprised if Iran does have nukes stored somewhere and if not then its still easy to buy some from the black market, lots of them are available from the fall of Russa. And US is not the only one with agents inside Iran, working to cause turmoil from inside. Iran also said it has agents in US waiting for a signal to start their attacks. Is it a bluff? who knows....

[Cognescenti]

I didn't say i believe it, i said i read it a while back. Even if it is true, it is very unlikely as we are not that advance in our technology and chemistry nor will we get there in the next 100yrs.

I agree. I would go further. I would say it is impossible. The genetic differences at the molecular level between groups of human beings are astonishingly small. For the most important proteins, even chimpanzees have a 99% sequence homology with man. :D VX nerve gas is chemically very similar to insect poison. Try drinking a bunch of DDT and see what happens. If we can't design a selective poison for boll weavels I don't think the hyper-intelligent, throbbing brained, mad scientists of the Mossad can design an anti-Arab poison either.

I think kuwait is wise to not offer US any base, seeing how they will face total annhilation being so close to Iran.

In the short run that may be an effective strategy. In the long run, what is to stop the Iranians from coming over and taking their nice, new 7-series BMW's away? Cowardice will lead to servility in time. If they abrogate their agreement with the US, do you think the Marines will come help them next time?

BTW...500 Scud missiles could never "anhilate" an entire country. They might kill a thousand Kuwaitis and there would be a Heck of a cleanup job..but not anhiliation. On the other hand, one nuke could ruin their whole day.

Here is what happened to their air-conditioned rides last time..:)

[islamirama]

In the short run that may be an effective strategy. In the long run, what is to stop the Iranians from coming over and taking their nice, new 7-series BMW's away? Cowardice will lead to servility in time. If they abrogate their agreement with the US, do you think the Marines will come help them next time?

BTW...500 Scud missiles could never "anhilate" an entire country. They might kill a thousand Kuwaitis and there would be a Heck of a cleanup job..but not anhiliation. On the other hand, one nuke could ruin their whole day.

Here is what happened to their air-conditioned rides last time..:)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...8_Apr_1991.jpg

Kuwait was bombed for by Iraq last time for it's extremely low oil prices on purpose. I don't think Iran and kuwait have had a chance to go head to head. But kuwait is but one city and scud missles or not Iran has enough power to make kuwait a desert sand and kuwaities know this which is why they don't want US on their soil, they don't want to get involved seeing what is happending in Iraq and afghan right now. They are smart for once to think of their own country and citizens and their safety.

[Sinbad]

Back to the thread.

The Kuwaitis are.....ready for it......afraid of the Iranians. Kuwait City is only about 40 mi away from the Iranian frontier. The Iranians have between perhaps 450 and 600 Scud B and Scud C missiles with ranges of over 200 miles. The are a very old technology and have a CEP-50 of 850 meters (Circular Error Probable...50% will land within a radius of 850 m of the target). That is really pretty lousy so they are only really useful when fired at very large targets (like a city). For comaprison, the US Trident missile warhead fired from a submarine 6000 miles away has a CEP of 90 m (with a nucelar warhead) :) As the Iranians would be unlikely to do much damage to a US base with these (Scuds) unless they fired dozens...they would most likely do exactly what they did in the Iran/Iraq war..fire them at Arab cities (in Dubai, Oman, Qatr, Kuwait).

Now..add to this the fact that, in my opinion, the Kuwaitis are an effete and coddled lot who couldn't change the spark plugs on their BMW 7 series with the help of color-coded tools and an animated video with a talking camel. Their wealth came not from their own effort but because foreign engineers found black gold under all the camel dung. Most of the hard work of the country is done by imported labor from the PI or Palestine or Bangladesh etc, etc. They were completely unprepared to deal with SH

Why should we expect anything different from them?

Why are you talking about ld missiles? Iran makes their own, very good missiles to, destroyed many israeli tanks, and shot down a high tech israeli jet in lebanon.

Iran also got the worlds best anti air system, as i have shown already. And the russians sold the best torpedos in the world to Iran.

Why would they go for old American stuff?

[Cognescenti]

If the americans do decide to sum how, and i think they will sum how want to attack iran, as they do what they want, but any how if America and there alies DO attack iran, then bye, bye america, because they will definatley be bombared, iran will fight back, like no one has seen, say they do have WMD, nuclear etc, then i would be happy 2 c them attack the kafr. personally speaking here, they deserve it, and the rest of the muslims would definatley start to join forces.

The signs of day of judgment are everywhere, and still coming more and more, it wud be NO SUPRISE if the USA do attack.

Just be ready to be defeated later on, by the MUSLIMS across the globe, inshlah.

I could be misreading this, but it sounds a bit like juvenile, jingoistic bombast.

You do realize the Iranians are mostly Shia? Do you really want them running the kaliphate? :)

Also, if you see more signs of judgement day coming, please let us know. I want to move some blue chips into gold.

[Sami Zaatari]

something that westerners are ignorant of is that the countries of kuwait, uae, and bahrain are actually iranian! many of the people in those countries are originally from iran, and came to these deserts long back in the day, many of them speak farsi etc. hence there is this small bond they have, since iran is one of their place of origin, hence they sure wont support anyone attacking it. number 2, kuwait and bahrain contain a large shiite population as well. hence these are some other reasons why these countries arent willing to take part in an attack on iran, because thats where most of them are from! and they share the same school of thought= shias. :)

[Sinbad]

I could be misreading this, but it sounds a bit like juvenile, jingoistic bombast.

You do realize the Iranians are mostly Shia? Do you really want them running the kaliphate? :)

Also, if you see more signs of judgement day coming, please let us know. I want to move some blue chips into gold.

Before Israel, the arabs hated the palestinians. Today the Palestinians are their brothers. An attack against Iran might be what makes the sectarian division history.

And yes United Arab Emirates, Baharin et c are Iranian parts that where stolen by the brittish empire and then made indenpendent so that Iran would not have them back.

[Cognescenti]

Why are you talking about ld missiles? Iran makes their own, very good missiles to, destroyed many israeli tanks, and shot down a high tech israeli jet in lebanon.

Iran also got the worlds best anti air system, as i have shown already. And the russians sold the best torpedos in the world to Iran.

Why would they go for old American stuff?

Huh? We were talking about Kuwait. Kuwait is made of dirt. Even the latest generation of Russian torpedoes tend to slow down a lot when they hit the beach. Anti-aircraft missiles are....well...anti-aircraft missiles. They aren't designed to attack a city. Same deal on Russian anti-tank missiles..they represent no threat to Kuwait.

As for the newer generation stuff...yes the Iranians have tested much longer range missiles (from a PRK design). Those are expensive and they will be needed once they have nukes. They aren't going to waste them for revenge attacks on Kuwait.

The Kuwaitis are cowards and would have others do the heavy lifting. It has nothing to do with Islamic solidarity. It is about sitting around on their hind quarters sipping bitter coffee and smoking water pipes.

[Cognescenti]

Before Israel, the arabs hated the palestinians. Today the Palestinians are their brothers. An attack against Iran might be what makes the sectarian division history.

And yes United Arab Emirates, Baharin et c are Iranian parts that where stolen by the brittish empire and then made indenpendent so that Iran would not have them back.

Yeah, right. You don't, for a minute, expect us to believe that the UAE want to be reunitied or ruled by Iranian mullahs. That is preposterous. They may take the Kuwaiti route, but for the same reason as the Kuwaitis.

I suppose you will tell us next the House of Saud are good buds too?

[Sinbad]

Huh? We were talking about Kuwait. Kuwait is made of dirt. Even the latest generation of Russian torpedoes tend to slow down a lot when they hit the beach. Anti-aircraft missiles are....well...anti-aircraft missiles. They aren't designed to attack a city. Same deal on Russian anti-tank missiles..they represent no threat to Kuwait.

As for the newer generation stuff...yes the Iranians have tested much longer range missiles (from a PRK design). Those are expensive and they will be needed once they have nukes. They aren't going to waste them for revenge attacks on Kuwait.

The Kuwaitis are cowards and would have others do the heavy lifting. It has nothing to do with Islamic solidarity. It is about sitting around on their hind quarters sipping bitter coffee and smoking water pipes.

Now youre attacking russian weaponry? Do you know how many nations prefer Russian? Russian Su and American airplanes was tested in India, the Indians choose the Russians.

Should we go over to other engineering? American cars are famous to alwas break, European cars are famous to stand good.

American Abraham tanks uses german Leopard canons cause the abaham m1s original wasnt good enough.

America had good weponry in the old days when the german ex nazis created the stealth, the jet fighter, the intercontinental rockets et c. But they are all dead now.

[MTAFFI]

Now youre attacking russian weaponry? Do you know how many nations prefer Russian? Russian Su and American airplanes was tested in India, the Indians choose the Russians.

Should we go over to other engineering? American cars are famous to alwas break, European cars are famous to stand good.

American Abraham tanks uses german Leopard canons cause the abaham m1s original wasnt good enough.

America had good weponry in the old days when the german ex nazis created the stealth, the jet fighter, the intercontinental rockets et c. But they are all dead now.

Indians took the Russians but did the Russians offer up their best weaponry, did the US? This shows nothing

You talk of engineering on american vehicles, do you think the same people who make american vehicles make our tanks, planes, etc.? I dont

You speak of tanks, our Ally Israel produces the most sophisticated and best tanks in the world

You speak of americas weaponry of the old days, please Iran still is in the old days, you dont know what the US military is capable of unleashing because it hasnt been unleashed yet.

IF you are trying to indicate that Iran has superior military, intelligence, missles, tanks, planes, warships or submarines you are sadly mistaken. Our country spent almost 500 billion last year on our military, that was 3% of our GDP & 47% of world spending on military. What does that tell you? It tells me if we went to war with Iran (not to occupy) Iran would be obliterated faster than Ahmadinjehad could chant "Death to America"

BY the way perhaps you should look up the Russian military machine and take a look at it a little closer, they are outdated and shorthanded.

[Cognescenti]

Now youre attacking russian weaponry? Do you know how many nations prefer Russian? Russian Su and American airplanes was tested in India, the Indians choose the Russians.

Should we go over to other engineering? American cars are famous to alwas break, European cars are famous to stand good..

Huh?? Where did I attack Russian weapons? This is about Kuwait. Russian antitank missiles and torpedoes are very good but they still do not represent a direct threat to your average Kuwaiti because they don't own a ship or a tank. Clearly, I am not making myself clear.

American Abraham tanks uses german Leopard canons cause the abaham m1s original wasnt good enough.

Yeah...so what? The German gun was an upgrade. It was a NATO interchangeability thing. Who cares. Your response seems kid of childish. This isn't a football game. We weren't even talking about American weapons per se. We were talking about why the Kuwaitis might be afraid of the Iranians.

America had good weponry in the old days when the german ex nazis created the stealth, the jet fighter, the intercontinental rockets et c. But they are all dead now.

Oh, that is rich. You mean Werner von Braun? I dont think he had anything to do with stealth technology. Again, a churlish and pointless answer.

America has the greatest blender and toaster technology on the planet! Nobody can stand up to our kitchen appliances...hah!

[Keltoi]

I still think China makes the best spiral notebook

[MTAFFI]

Should we go over to other engineering? American cars are famous to alwas break, European cars are famous to stand good.

I would also like to add to this garbage, I have 2 american made trucks one of them I use to drive around on unpaved land and it has over 250,000 miles on it, the engine will last longer than the actual body (it is a deisel), show me one foreign car that will out last my truck. (I know that sounds unbelievable but look it up, it is a 1995 dodge ram 2500 turbo cummins deisel) I also own a mercedez, my wife went to go and get a brake job after 25,000 miles (which is unusally low to need new brakes) and it cost me $900, if it werent for my wife, I would never own another foreign car. I think when you refer to famously breaking, you might mean that since most american cars used to have bigger engines people would romp on them and hence they wouldnt last as long.

How long do Iranian cars last...lol

[MTAFFI]

I still think China makes the best spiral notebook

NO WAY JAPAN DOES

[Sinbad]

I can in no way answe all of these posts, but I take some.

No UAE does not want to be ruled by Iranians cause they are pan arabs, its illegal to call the persian gulf, persian you must say arab gulf.

There are Iranians and persians but they lived in the coastlines, the arabs in the inner parts deserts et c, in the 70s UAE was created and all the arabs where forced to give up their nomad lifes and live like persians in civilization.

Indians took the Russians but did the Russians offer up their best weaponry, did the US? This shows nothing

You talk of engineering on american vehicles, do you think the same people who make american vehicles make our tanks, planes, etc.? I dont

You speak of tanks, our Ally Israel produces the most sophisticated and best tanks in the world

You speak of americas weaponry of the old days, please Iran still is in the old days, you dont know what the US military is capable of unleashing because it hasnt been unleashed yet.

IF you are trying to indicate that Iran has superior military, intelligence, missles, tanks, planes, warships or submarines you are sadly mistaken. Our country spent almost 500 billion last year on our military, that was 3% of our GDP & 47% of world spending on military. What does that tell you? It tells me if we went to war with Iran (not to occupy) Iran would be obliterated faster than Ahmadinjehad could chant "Death to America"

BY the way perhaps you should look up the Russian military machine and take a look at it a little closer, they are outdated and shorthanded.

WHY ARE YOU TAKING UP IRAN VS USA! USA is a superpower, Iran is an averege nation, why do you need to prove America has a better military?

And no Israel does not prodce the best tanks in the world, Merkava sucks. the merkava 3 was supposed to be the best in the world, the Lebanon war proved it to be a failiure, abraham M1 is far superior in Iraq.

Today they claim their nev Merkava 4 is the best. Its all words, you can not belive all you hear.

Nobody knows what America is capable of unleashing no, cause it would take a war against Russia or China to see that.

I know that America has a big military spending, SONY puts out more money on research than America does on education and healtcare.

America is the strongest nation in the world when have I denied that?

And no Im talking about the germans, Verner Von Braun just did the American intercontinental rocket when the American scientists failed.

The stealth and Jet where on the germans blue prints, the americans took it after the war.

[Keltoi]

I can in no way answe all of these posts, but I take some.

No UAE does not want to be ruled by Iranians cause they are pan arabs, its illegal to call the persian gulf, persian you must say arab gulf.

There are Iranians and persians but they lived in the coastlines, the arabs in the inner parts deserts et c, in the 70s UAE was created and all the arabs where forced to give up their nomad lifes and live like persians in civilization.



WHY ARE YOU TAKING UP IRAN VS USA! USA is a superpower, Iran is an averege nation, why do you need to prove America has a better military?

And no Israel does not prodce the best tanks in the world, Merkava sucks. the merkava 3 was supposed to be the best in the world, the Lebanon war proved it to be a failiure, abraham M1 is far superior in Iraq.

Today they claim their nev Merkava 4 is the best. Its all words, you can not belive all you hear.

Nobody knows what America is capable of unleashing no, cause it would take a war against Russia or China to see that.

I know that America has a big military spending, SONY puts out more money on research than America does on education and healtcare.

America is the strongest nation in the world when have I denied that?

And no Im talking about the germans, Verner Von Braun just did the American intercontinental rocket when the American scientists failed.

The stealth and Jet where on the germans blue prints, the americans took it after the war.

They must not have been very good blueprints, since true stealth technology didn't exist until Project Harvey in the 1970's.

[Cognescenti]

I still think China makes the best spiral notebook

If you mean those without dividers then I would agree with you. When it comes to those with the cool, heavy paper dividers, then I would have to give the nod to the Korean products. The Chinese notebooks are lighter and more manoeverable, but the Korean devices are more durable and can stand up to greater punishment.

When it comes to the paper itself, I would have to go with the Canadians. The US just hasn't been able to get it together on pulp since the last of the great Nazi paper engineers died.

[Sinbad]

Why do you people never give sources for your claims? Im the only one giving sources.

They must not have been very good blueprints, since true stealth technology didn't exist until Project Harvey in the 1970's.

The range of Germany's technical achievement astounded Allied scientific intelligence experts accompanying the invading forces in 1945.

Supersonic rockets, nerve gas, jet aircraft, guided missiles, stealth technology and hardened armour were just some of the groundbreaking technologies developed in Nazi laboratories, workshops and factories, even as Germany was losing the war.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4443934.stm

[Cognescenti]

Why do you people never give sources for your claims? Im the only one giving sources.



The range of Germany's technical achievement astounded Allied scientific intelligence experts accompanying the invading forces in 1945.

Supersonic rockets, nerve gas, jet aircraft, guided missiles, stealth technology and hardened armour were just some of the groundbreaking technologies developed in Nazi laboratories, workshops and factories, even as Germany was losing the war.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4443934.stm

That is not modern "stealth technology". They may have developed some Radar absorbing coatings and gemoetries to minimize radar cross-section but they sure did not have carbon-composite airplane parts because they didn't exist until much later.

Nobody said the Germans weren't clever, but let's not get carried away. After all, they did lose the war. :D

BTW...had do you feel about the spiral notebook question?

[Sinbad]

That is not modern "stealth technology". They may have developed some Radar absorbing coatings and gemoetries to minimize radar cross-section but they sure did not have carbon-composite airplane parts because they didn't exist until much later.

Nobody said the Germans weren't clever, but let's not get carried away. After all, they did lose the war. :D

BTW...had do you feel about the spiral notebook question?

That is not a hard thing to do, The Ukrainians have anti stealth radar. The hard thing is coming up with the idea, the first camouflaged uniforms for soldiers where created by the germans to, so was the first reckon veichle.

Dont know if you have seen that little robot they found in Normandie.

The best Spiral Notebooks are from Japan.

The chinese just mass produce them, the Japanese want to be the best. They give their soul into making them.

[Cognescenti]

...The best Spiral Notebooks are from Japan.

The chinese just mass produce them, the Japanese want to be the best. They give their soul into making them.

Hello Kitty? :?

Shouldn't that be int he gay thread:)

[Sami Zaatari]

well all this talk about how strong the US and what they can do is pretty much useless. lets just wait and see what will happen if they do ever attack iran, cause quite frankly lol saying USA is sooooooo strong and will do this and that is funny, because at the moment lets look at ground facts, at this moment the US army is in war with iraqi insurgents, not a trained army, but a group of men who took the role to fight occupying yanks in their country. and what we can see from this war between the insurgents and the USA is that the USA the us army specifically is losing, and quite frankly losing badly, all the tanks, technology, stealth submarines and bombers are pretty much useless right now, so good job. sophisticated weaponary cant beat guerilla warfare, and never will, the 2nd lebanon war proved that, and so is the iraqi war between us forced and iraqi insurgents. so all this talk of ohhhhh the army just hasnt shown what it can do is mere garbage, for 7 years ive been hearing americans now saying oh u just wait and see what were gonna do to u! year after year goes by and all i see is israel losing, marines dying like flies, americans losing iraq, and on and on, oh yes they still havent unleased their true might right? yes yes we will wait for another 100 years until america unleashes its entire might, lol.

now since americans like mtaffi arent educated, and pretty much are dumb (excuse me admins) they will say we can nukeeeeeeeeeee iraq and the whole mid-east! as i said, their dumb, plz mtaffi go ahead and nuke the mid-east, since ppl like u are idiots, using such nuke power will not only destroy all arabs there, but will also destroy ur lovely israeli allies, :(, not only that, it will call the 30 million christians as well and hundreds of thousands of western foreigners in those countries. wow good job. not only that, using that much nukes will cause a uranium problem, which will reach europe, and eventually the us, because using that much nuke power will as i said cause a huge uranium problem. hence the uranium will reach russia europe and kill them off one by one until it reaches the good ole usa!!!!!!!!!! so plz, go ahead, nuke the mid-east, it will take israel out, and kill alot of ur own and europe.

and one last thing, our dead go to heaven, yours go to hell! so we still win, and number 2 Allah will protect us from such an act, especially madinah and Makkah. hence your plan is futile, since god will protect us from such a plan. :) including any other plans of wiping us out whethor it be carpet bombing or whatever you have. :) so im not worried at all! good bye im going out now. maybe ill see a mushroom cloud later.

[MTAFFI]

well all this talk about how strong the US and what they can do is pretty much useless. lets just wait and see what will happen if they do ever attack iran, cause quite frankly lol saying USA is sooooooo strong and will do this and that is funny, because at the moment lets look at ground facts, at this moment the US army is in war with iraqi insurgents, not a trained army, but a group of men who took the role to fight occupying yanks in their country. and what we can see from this war between the insurgents and the USA is that the USA the us army specifically is losing, and quite frankly losing badly, all the tanks, technology, stealth submarines and bombers are pretty much useless right now, so good job. sophisticated weaponary cant beat guerilla warfare, and never will, the 2nd lebanon war proved that, and so is the iraqi war between us forced and iraqi insurgents. so all this talk of ohhhhh the army just hasnt shown what it can do is mere garbage, for 7 years ive been hearing americans now saying oh u just wait and see what were gonna do to u! year after year goes by and all i see is israel losing, marines dying like flies, americans losing iraq, and on and on, oh yes they still havent unleased their true might right? yes yes we will wait for another 100 years until america unleashes its entire might, lol.

Yeah Sami you really hit the nail on the head here. Excuse me Admins, but Sami you are an idiot. We are occupying Iraq, not in all out war, if we were we would have destroyed Iraq years ago. The guerrilla warefare you speak of is very effective in an occupation, when you cant tell civilian from enemy. But in war, true war, the war that would be fought with Iran, civilian casualities would be large, and the "guerrilla fighters" would do exactly what the taliban did, run and hide. You are probably one of the most ignorant people I have ever met when it comes to war and the capabilities of advanced militaries, such as the US. The US does not wish to kill all the Iraqis or we would have done it already, it is a matter of providing security, which various insurgent groups will not allow. If you truly wish to see the full force of the US military in Iraq then you are asking for the absolute slaughter of the people living there and that is not what the US is about, whether you wish it was or not.

now since americans like mtaffi arent educated, and pretty much are dumb (excuse me admins) they will say we can nukeeeeeeeeeee iraq and the whole mid-east! as i said, their dumb, plz mtaffi go ahead and nuke the mid-east, since ppl like u are idiots, using such nuke power will not only destroy all arabs there, but will also destroy ur lovely israeli allies, :(, not only that, it will call the 30 million christians as well and hundreds of thousands of western foreigners in those countries. wow good job. not only that, using that much nukes will cause a uranium problem, which will reach europe, and eventually the us, because using that much nuke power will as i said cause a huge uranium problem. hence the uranium will reach russia europe and kill them off one by one until it reaches the good ole usa!!!!!!!!!! so plz, go ahead, nuke the mid-east, it will take israel out, and kill alot of ur own and europe.

and one last thing, our dead go to heaven, yours go to hell! so we still win, and number 2 Allah will protect us from such an act, especially madinah and Makkah. hence your plan is futile, since god will protect us from such a plan. :) including any other plans of wiping us out whethor it be carpet bombing or whatever you have. :) so im not worried at all! good bye im going out now. maybe ill see a mushroom cloud later.

I am glad you think that I would wish for a nuclear war, it just shows how sadistic you are Sami. If it were up to me no one in the world would have nuclear weapons, they are one of the worst creations that man has ever come up with, yet you will go and put your sick twisted words in my mouth and reference me in your post because you are pathetic and at the end of your rope and have no where else to turn. Get a grip, no one will see a nuke go off, unless Iran uses one first, we have plenty of other weapons that would turn Iran into a crater without the use of nuclear weapons, we spent 500 billion last year on our military.

As for your second paragraph it is just shows what a bigot you are, not everyone in the west will go to hell, and not everyone in the mid east will go to heaven, you are so ignorant. Hence your thoughts are futile and stupid, maybe you will see a mushroom cloud later, but that is only if Iran finishes its nuclear work today. Thanks for making yourself look like an ignoramous Sami, it is always fun to read and respond to!:D

[Sami Zaatari]

ture mtaffi, not everyone who you will kill in the mid-east will go to heaven, i.e the maronite christians who slaughtered countless of innocent palestinians and lebanease muslims, and the zionist jews who occupy palestine for 50 years now and who have been responsible for dozens of war crimes.

as for nukes, they are the worst creation, because its for cowards only who cant fight, hence they make nukes but too bad God is stronger that 1 billion nukes, so im not concerned about your nukes or anyone else's nukes. anyway i saw no mushroom cloud today, i guess your plan is still on hold mtaffi.

as for war with iran not being guerilla warfare, true, it wont, but it wont be all out war neither, since you cant make the logistics im afraid :(, your only resort is by air, and you and i know iran has already planned on how to defend themselves from a major US air bombardment.

number 2, lets say a mircale happens and u do get the logistics and make a full ground invasion well it will then be both conventional and guerilla warfare, because since your ignorant you dont actually know that the iranian army has trained thousands upon thousands of soldiers to take part in guerilla warfare incase the army cant hold and are over-run, sheesh its like you take your enemies for idiots!

number 3, iranian agents are across the world right now as we speak, ready to carry out any attacks if their country is hit, as the ayatollah said. and we all know western moral is very very weak, if they get bombed or attacked, lets say twice in a week, or 2wice in 2 weeks, civillian moral will be so low they will demand an end to the war and so will opposition parties. :)

but u dont care, u like war, your a big toughhhhhhhh guy right? so its all good for you, just get ur nachos and 6 pack of beer and turn fox news on.

[snakelegs]

we are leading up to an attack on iran, just as we did with iraq. it looks like the same scenario all over again.
i hope that sense will prevail, but i am not very optimistic. :skeleton:

[Malaikah]

we are leading up to an attack on iran, just as we did with iraq. it looks like the same scenario all over again.
i hope that sense will prevail, but i am not very optimistic. :skeleton:

First voice of reason in this thread... :thumbs_up

[Zman]

We are occupying Iraq, not in all out war, if we were we would have destroyed Iraq years ago.

Iraq has been destroyed already. The first nail in the coffin was after the 1st Gulf War, the TKO, was done via 12 genocidal years of sanctions & daily bombings...

The guerrilla warefare you speak of is very effective in an occupation, when you cant tell civilian from enemy. But in war, true war,

Guerilla Warfare, is a true form of War. It's Just one kind of war, but it IS real warfare.

Special forces use Guerrilla tactics. Do you consider them to be inferior as Guerrillas?

the war that would be fought with Iran, civilian casualities would be large, and the "guerrilla fighters" would do exactly what the taliban did, run and hide.

It's not run & hide. It's a maxim of Guerrilla Warfare. When you meet a larger more powerful force, witdraw and fight another day.

That maxim is also employed by conventional units and formations...

If you truly wish to see the full force of the US military

We've already seen the might of the U.S. military.

The last war we won was WWII.

We stalemated with a Third World nation, Korea.

We lost in Vietnam.

Granada & Panam, were Jokes. They were Just dress rehearsals for our many foreign interventions, which followed.

We were chased out of Lebanon, Just from one truck bomb.

We were chased out of Somalia.

We can't handle 2 simultaneous insurgencies (Afghanistan & Iraq), and our doctrine states that we can fight a 2 theatre conventional war.

And since you consider Guerrilla Warfare as being not a really, real war,, then we are in a very pitiful state, my friend.

So, I wouldn't be bragging about the full weight of our military might...

[Cognescenti]

....and one last thing, our dead go to heaven, yours go to hell! so we still win, and number 2 Allah will protect us from such an act, especially madinah and Makkah. hence your plan is futile, since god will protect us from such a plan. :) including any other plans of wiping us out whethor it be carpet bombing or whatever you have. :) so im not worried at all! good bye im going out now. maybe ill see a mushroom cloud later.

Must we really endure this?

[Bittersteel]

We can't handle 2 simultaneous insurgencies (Afghanistan & Iraq), and our doctrine states that we can fight a 2 theatre conventional war.

Iraq and Afghanistan ,bot aren't conventional.

[aamirsaab]

:sl:
Eenie, meenie, miney, MO!

Please behave nicely and stick to da topic!

[MTAFFI]

ture mtaffi, not everyone who you will kill in the mid-east will go to heaven, i.e the maronite christians who slaughtered countless of innocent palestinians and lebanease muslims, and the zionist jews who occupy palestine for 50 years now and who have been responsible for dozens of war crimes.

Dont forget about the non practicing muslims and the muslims who did not follow the Quran

as for nukes, they are the worst creation, because its for cowards only who cant fight, hence they make nukes but too bad God is stronger that 1 billion nukes, so im not concerned about your nukes or anyone else's nukes. anyway i saw no mushroom cloud today, i guess your plan is still on hold mtaffi.

Nukes are the worst, I can agree on that, but again I will say it isnt my plan

as for war with iran not being guerilla warfare, true, it wont, but it wont be all out war neither, since you cant make the logistics im afraid :(, your only resort is by air, and you and i know iran has already planned on how to defend themselves from a major US air bombardment.

Again you are ignorant, Iran wont stop the stealth fighters that would be sent in and they wont be stopping a bombardment of missles that would be launched from various sites, dont forget Sami we have planes that can be anywhere in the world in a matter of a few hours, so your stupid idea about logistics is exactly that, stupid

number 2, lets say a mircale happens and u do get the logistics and make a full ground invasion well it will then be both conventional and guerilla warfare, because since your ignorant you dont actually know that the iranian army has trained thousands upon thousands of soldiers to take part in guerilla warfare incase the army cant hold and are over-run, sheesh its like you take your enemies for idiots!

A ground invasion would be unnecessary, may some groups here and there.

number 3, iranian agents are across the world right now as we speak, ready to carry out any attacks if their country is hit, as the ayatollah said. and we all know western moral is very very weak, if they get bombed or attacked, lets say twice in a week, or 2wice in 2 weeks, civillian moral will be so low they will demand an end to the war and so will opposition parties. :)

yeah go ahead make a couple attacks with a nation claiming them, see how low civilian morale will be. I would venture to say it would boost the morale of many, and that is morale with an "e"

but u dont care, u like war, your a big toughhhhhhhh guy right? so its all good for you, just get ur nachos and 6 pack of beer and turn fox news on.

I dont like war, I am pretty tough, I dont eat junk food and I only drink on occassion. So sit down and smoke your dope, eat your curry, and visit your blog and write about everyone who doesnt take your side and cry like a little baby and be sure to visit infowars.com and prisonplanet.com for your news update.

[Sami Zaatari]

its like i have to repeat myself a hundred times, firing missiles and using your stealth bombers wont do ANYTHING, lol how many times must i say this? that iran has already planned on what to do for a major air offensive, and precision guided missiles strikes! they already know that the form of attack against them most likely have a 90% chance of being from the air and sea only, not by the ground, and they can easily hold that.

as for me smoking dope, no thank you, i dont smoke, as for eating curry, i dont eat curry, as for visiting infowars.com and prisonplanet.com 25 million others do it as well which is why its one of the worlds top ranked internet site (above many of your neocon sites such as robert spener, daniel pipes etc) and number 3 you cant ever refute anything on those 2 sites, your guilty of what is called poisining the well, attacking the source but not the info, thats the sign of a typical loser. both those sites you mock have recieved former FBI members and former CIA leaders, including top former defence leaders and so on, so you can mock them all you want, but fact is their word is spreading so too bad for you. lol as for crying like a little baby, i leave that to americans, their the best at it lol.

[Keltoi]

Think about it this way...if Iran continues down their current path and the U.S. does nothing, Israel will take matters into their own hands. The U.S. doesn't want Israel involved, for obvious reasons, so it could come to a point when the U.S. has little choice...especially if the U.N. does what it normally does.

[Sinbad]

Think about it this way...if Iran continues down their current path and the U.S. does nothing, Israel will take matters into their own hands. The U.S. doesn't want Israel involved, for obvious reasons, so it could come to a point when the U.S. has little choice...especially if the U.N. does what it normally does.

No Israel will not, they only say they will to calm their people down. The Israeli goverment knows that All the Iranian leaders want is to keep their money and sucking Iran dry. And then retire to their houses in Geneva.

Ahmadjinedad would, but hes just someone becomign president cause nobody voted. He has no military power et c.

[islamirama]

its like i have to repeat myself a hundred times, firing missiles and using your stealth bombers wont do ANYTHING, lol how many times must i say this? that iran has already planned on what to do for a major air offensive, and precision guided missiles strikes! they already know that the form of attack against them most likely have a 90% chance of being from the air and sea only, not by the ground, and they can easily hold that.

as for me smoking dope, no thank you, i dont smoke, as for eating curry, i dont eat curry, as for visiting infowars.com and prisonplanet.com 25 million others do it as well which is why its one of the worlds top ranked internet site (above many of your neocon sites such as robert spener, daniel pipes etc) and number 3 you cant ever refute anything on those 2 sites, your guilty of what is called poisining the well, attacking the source but not the info, thats the sign of a typical loser. both those sites you mock have recieved former FBI members and former CIA leaders, including top former defence leaders and so on, so you can mock them all you want, but fact is their word is spreading so too bad for you. lol as for crying like a little baby, i leave that to americans, their the best at it lol.

**stands up and applauds** :D

[MTAFFI]

its like i have to repeat myself a hundred times, firing missiles and using your stealth bombers wont do ANYTHING, lol how many times must i say this? that iran has already planned on what to do for a major air offensive, and precision guided missiles strikes! they already know that the form of attack against them most likely have a 90% chance of being from the air and sea only, not by the ground, and they can easily hold that.

Really, please provide proof for this. Your opinion is worthless since it is wrong

as for me smoking dope, no thank you, i dont smoke, as for eating curry, i dont eat curry, as for visiting infowars.com and prisonplanet.com 25 million others do it as well which is why its one of the worlds top ranked internet site (above many of your neocon sites such as robert spener, daniel pipes etc) and number 3 you cant ever refute anything on those 2 sites, your guilty of what is called poisining the well, attacking the source but not the info, thats the sign of a typical loser. both those sites you mock have recieved former FBI members and former CIA leaders, including top former defence leaders and so on, so you can mock them all you want, but fact is their word is spreading so too bad for you. lol as for crying like a little baby, i leave that to americans, their the best at it lol.

one of the top ranked in the WORLD huh? LOL again please provide some fact here, your opinion is worthless as is your post. Robert spencer and Daniel pipes, I dont even pay attention to them or really even know who they are or what they have written. As far as being a neocon, I am not and again your opinion is worthless. As far as prisonplanet....lol.. no one responds to it here because it is against forum rules to post conspirarcy theories, and that is exactly what Alex Jones does, conspiracy theories. He is a joke and is known by many to be a joke. You say 25 million people, well wow sami, there are 6 billion in the world, that means about .0000025 in the world pay attention to his utter garbage, glad to see you are one of those meatheads :D as far as his 9/11 myths they are easy to debunk oh and heres yet another

Fact is, conspiracies make money, and as the great PT Barnum said (you know the circus guy) "There is a sucker born every minute"

[Cognescenti]

Prisonplanet is a gathering place for Konspiracy Kooks. In that sense, assailing the source of "information" has some validity.

If National Enquirer (in their old days) ran a story on Tammy Wynette being an alien love child I would tend to discount it as well.

[Pygoscelis]

infact the iranian regime wish for you to attack them, because it will bring up all the sentimental nationalism etc and make the ppl side with the goverment! not only in iran, but the entire muslim world!

Excellent point. Wars are as domestically motivated as they are internationally motivated. Bush attacked Iraq just after 9/11. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 but 9/11 produced a public sentiment of wanting vengeance, and Bush used that pro aggression sentiment.

The political climate in the US would have difficulty allowing an attack on Iran right now. But if a second terrorist attack happened to strike, that could change, even if it had nothing whatsoever to do with Iran.

[Cognescenti]

Excellent point. Wars are as domestically motivated as they are internationally motivated. Bush attacked Iraq just after 9/11. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 but 9/11 produced a public sentiment of wanting vengeance, and Bush used that pro aggression sentiment.

The political climate in the US would have difficulty allowing an attack on Iran right now. But if a second terrorist attack happened to strike, that could change, even if it had nothing whatsoever to do with Iran.

And you are able to achieve these insights into the thinking of the American public because...you are Canadian. You have jsut accused a couple of hundred million people of lacking discrimination. Some of us might object to that inference :-)

You cite revenge (presumably because it is a non-thinking response). I would contend that the more general feeling is "just make sure it doesn't happen again". That is why the proactive argument carried the day.

I would agree the sentiment for prompt action agaisnt Iran is not there but it would take more than another terror act to overturn that. If, on the other hand, it were linked to Iran or involved WMD's...then the pressure for action would be unstoppable.

[Pygoscelis]

And you are able to achieve these insights into the thinking of the American public because...you are Canadian. You have jsut accused a couple of hundred million people of lacking discrimination. Some of us might object to that inference :-)

You cite revenge (presumably because it is a non-thinking response). I would contend that the more general feeling is "just make sure it doesn't happen again". That is why the proactive argument carried the day.

I would agree the sentiment for prompt action agaisnt Iran is not there but it would take more than another terror act to overturn that. If, on the other hand, it were linked to Iran or involved WMD's...then the pressure for action would be unstoppable.

You really think Bush would have had all that support to invade Iraq had 9/11 never happened? Remember, there were plans for an invasion of Iraq during the Clinton administration, but it didn't go through. Bush clearly didn't think he could push it through pre 9/11 either - as he was elected on a platform of "non nation building". 9/11 created the out-for-vengeance sentiment that they needed to push it through.

The whole "they have weapons of mass destruction" line and refusal to allow the weapons inspectors to finish their work before charging in would never have flown had the public not been in a state of shock and fear. The climate made it possible.

[Cognescenti]

You really think Bush would have had all that support to invade Iraq had 9/11 never happened? Remember, there were plans for an invasion of Iraq during the Clinton administration, but it didn't go through. Bush clearly didn't think he could push it through pre 9/11 either - as he was elected on a platform of "non nation building". 9/11 created the out-for-vengeance sentiment that they needed to push it through.

The whole "they have weapons of mass destruction" line and refusal to allow the weapons inspectors to finish their work before charging in would never have flown had the public not been in a state of shock and fear. The climate made it possible.

The climate made it possible for the WMD theat and proactive action argument to succeed. I agree with that. I reject your claim that "revenge" was the prime mover.

BTW, the notion that weapons isnpectors in Iraq could have ever "finished their work" is good for a laugh. SH didn't want them to finish their work. He wanted the concern that he had WMD's to be perpetuated. He need only have dropped a few crumbs of gingerbread on the trail every few months and Hansel and Gretel would never get home.

[nocturne]

America is comfortable in waging wars far far away from their home, whereby the instability the war brings to the region would not severly affect them.

There is no right or wrong in a war. In this day of age, we all should be mature enough to solve problems through diplomacy.

Sri Lankan vs Tamil Tigers isnt any different from Israel vs Palestine....but all the attention is on middle east.

[nocturne]

The climate made it possible for the WMD theat and proactive action argument to succeed. I agree with that. I reject your claim that "revenge" was the prime mover.

BTW, the notion that weapons isnpectors in Iraq could have ever "finished their work" is good for a laugh. SH didn't want them to finish their work. He wanted the concern that he had WMD's to be perpetuated. He need only have dropped a few crumbs of gingerbread on the trail every few months and Hansel and Gretel would never get home.

Even when the whole world acknowledges that Bush was wrong to go into Iraq, you still fail to see them. There was no WMD, and attacking afghan and iraq was nothing more than revenge.

I dont see how the world is a better place now that afghanistan and iraq are under american rule.:rollseyes

[Keltoi]

Even when the whole world acknowledges that Bush was wrong to go into Iraq, you still fail to see them. There was no WMD, and attacking afghan and iraq was nothing more than revenge.

I dont see how the world is a better place now that afghanistan and iraq are under american rule.:rollseyes

Even the whole world? Hardly. In any event, I would agree that revenge played a part in it. However, I also think Bush believed in his theory that a democratic Iraq would be a stabilizing force in the region. The problem is that he and his advisors didn't bother to plan on exactly how this transition was going to take place.

[Cognescenti]

Even when the whole world acknowledges that Bush was wrong to go into Iraq, you still fail to see them. There was no WMD, and attacking afghan and iraq was nothing more than revenge.

I dont see how the world is a better place now that afghanistan and iraq are under american rule.:rollseyes

1) In retrospect, the war in Iraq will fall short of its goals. There were no WMD's, although it was not known at the time. Still, this is the real world. In this world, one doesn't get to see into the future. And there is the pesky matter of SH if you imagine you can turn back the clock.

2) Afghanistan is a different matter. The link to the 9-11 attack is clear (unless one is a nutjob). The Taliban were giving safe harbor to Al Quaeda. There may well have been some revenge going there, that is only natural. It was warranted. But we were talking specifically about Iraq

3) FYI..neither country is under "American Rule"

[Pygoscelis]

2) Afghanistan is a different matter. The link to the 9-11 attack is clear (unless one is a nutjob). The Taliban were giving safe harbor to Al Quaeda. There may well have been some revenge going there, that is only natural. It was warranted. But we were talking specifically about Iraq

Well to play devils advocate on this, there are two important points I see that need to be made.

1. The US claimed they had irrefutable evidence that Osama did 9/11. Afghanistan asked to see this evidence. It didn't seem like an unreasonaable request to me at the time. The US refused to provide it, and instead promptly invaded Afghanistan.

2. It is unclear that the Taliban could have handed over Bin Laden even if they wanted to.

[Keltoi]

Well to play devils advocate on this, there are two important points I see that need to be made.

1. The US claimed they had irrefutable evidence that Osama did 9/11. Afghanistan asked to see this evidence. It didn't seem like an unreasonaable request to me at the time. The US refused to provide it, and instead promptly invaded Afghanistan.

2. It is unclear that the Taliban could have handed over Bin Laden even if they wanted to.

It was an unreasonable request primarily because it gave Bin Laden time to escape, which of course he did anyway. The U.S. was under no illusions about the good faith nature of the Taliban's "request".

[Cognescenti]

Well to play devils advocate on this, there are two important points I see that need to be made.

1. The US claimed they had irrefutable evidence that Osama did 9/11. Afghanistan asked to see this evidence. It didn't seem like an unreasonaable request to me at the time. The US refused to provide it, and instead promptly invaded Afghanistan.

2. It is unclear that the Taliban could have handed over Bin Laden even if they wanted to.

As to #1, I would agree with Keltoi. The Taliban were just buying time. Do you remember the Taliban spokesman in Pakistan? He made Baghdad Bob look like Walter Cronkite.

I do agree with number two, but that is hardly our problem :) They backed the wrong horse. He was their "guest" for several years.

[Ninth_Scribe]

KUWAIT CITY, June 11 (AFP) Jun 11, 2007
Kuwait, a staunch US ally, said on Monday it would not allow the United States to use its territory as a launch-pad for any attack on Iran over its nuclear programme.

The CND in England had issues back in 1983 with Reagan when he said "there could be a limited nuclear war in Europe". They opposed U.S. bases in Britain that would be used to launch missiles or other weapons against the Soviets. It did sound kind of nasty too. The fear was that the U.S. would point weapons at the Soviet Union, who would in turn point their weapons at the U.S. bases in Europe. What if a war began? The Soviets would pay the price. Europe would pay the price. The United States would walk away scott-free! Considering the one "mishap" - the accidental dropping of an ICBM that could have wiped Scotland off the map (see Guiness Book of World Records) - I think Kuwait is more than justified in it's response.

Ninth Scribe