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Sinbad
06-12-2007, 04:16 PM
Why does islam say that pigs are haram? Iv heard its cause the arabs used to have sheeps that can stand being slaughtered and then exploited under the sun. while pigs have to be in cooled areas or they will be bad for you.
And the arabs slaughtered them let them stand and they got bad and they made it haram.

Why is blood forbidden to drink or eat? I love blood, especially as pudding but sausage is good to!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_pudding

Black pudding or blood pudding is a sausage made by cooking blood with a filler until it is thick enough to congeal when cooled. Blood sausage is a more recent North American term for the same as well as a useful term for similar blood-based solid foods around the world.

Why does islam say that dogs are filthy and bad?
Iv heard that its cause they lick people, and the arabs didnt like that, thinking they made them filthy.
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NoName55
06-14-2007, 05:43 PM
this is more a statement (based on untruths) than questions. answers can be found by searching the forums, here.
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vpb
06-14-2007, 05:43 PM
Why does islam say that pigs are haram? Iv heard its cause the arabs used to have sheeps that can stand being slaughtered and then exploited under the sun. while pigs have to be in cooled areas or they will be bad for you.
And the arabs slaughtered them let them stand and they got bad and they made it haram.

Why is blood forbidden to drink or eat? I love blood, especially as pudding but sausage is good to!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_pudding

Black pudding or blood pudding is a sausage made by cooking blood with a filler until it is thick enough to congeal when cooled. Blood sausage is a more recent North American term for the same as well as a useful term for similar blood-based solid foods around the world.

Why does islam say that dogs are filthy and bad?
Iv heard that its cause they lick people, and the arabs didnt like that, thinking they made them filthy.
first, you're saying that arabs put these rules, but it's not arabs, but it's Allah swt who put these rules.


and pig is a complete dirty animal, meat, it's skin everything.
Dog is allowed to have only if you are a sheperd or if u hunt.
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Woodrow
06-14-2007, 05:45 PM
I do not see why I need to have any reason other than to know that Allah(swt) has said so.

Yes, throughout the centuries many people have found practical reasons as to why those things are haram, but personaly I do not see any need in even wanting to know why Allah(swt) has said anything. I have no reason to question his judgement.
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vpb
06-14-2007, 05:47 PM
Sinbad, if Arabs forbided only things which they didn't like, they how come alchool, which they would give up everything but alchool, why did they made alchool haram and a major sin?
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Sinbad
06-14-2007, 06:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by vpb
Sinbad, if Arabs forbided only things which they didn't like, they how come alchool, which they would give up everything but alchool, why did they made alchool haram and a major sin?
This post might get deleted...

When Islam was created, the arabs united and started to counqer, they where far away from their water springs. The alcohol dehydrated it so they where told not to drink it,:D
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Woodrow
06-14-2007, 06:22 PM
This section is not for debate. This is becoming a debatable topic. I can understand the reason non-Muslims may wonder why some things are considered Haram so for that reason I am moving the thread rather than deleting it.
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carpetguy
06-14-2007, 06:28 PM
we should just accept that if allah says then so be it, all glory and praise be to allah. may he shower us with his blessings. ameen
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Umar001
06-14-2007, 06:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sinbad
This post might get deleted...

When Islam was created, the arabs united and started to counqer, they where far away from their water springs. The alcohol dehydrated it so they where told not to drink it,:D
Surely then it would have only been made haram on those who were out fighting and conquering. Wouldn't make sense to make it haram all the time.
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Sinbad
06-14-2007, 06:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Al Habeshi
Surely then it would have only been made haram on those who were out fighting and conquering. Wouldn't make sense to make it haram all the time.
Nothing that is said to be haram makes any sence. Why should drinking be banned? It will only be replaced by stuff in the waterpipe, and the drug kat.

And why should you blindly obey god? I know God exist but I choose not to follow him.

If allah says its haram, why should you obey it?

I live a life that would make your imam cry, and I love it. Why should I bow to God? Why should anyone?
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Muezzin
06-14-2007, 06:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sinbad
Nothing that is said to be haram makes any sence. Why should drinking be banned? It will only be replaced by stuff in the waterpipe, and the drug kat.
I don't drink. Or smoke anything, including water pipes. Or take illegal drugs such as kat.

Although I do like Kit Kats.



Delish.
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NoName55
06-14-2007, 06:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sinbad
Nothing that is said to be haram makes any sence. Why should drinking be banned? It will only be replaced by stuff in the waterpipe, and the drug kat.

And why should you blindly obey god? I know God exist but I choose not to follow him.

If allah says its haram, why should you obey it?

I live a life that would make your imam cry, and I love it. Why should I bow to God? Why should anyone?
um.. what happend to that fire worship thingie? how come it change to agnostic?
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carpetguy
06-14-2007, 06:48 PM
im just glad mars didnt go ahead with the animal rennet things.

all thanks to the fuss we all kicked up
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Woodrow
06-14-2007, 06:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sinbad
Nothing that is said to be haram makes any sence.
Why should drinking be banned? It will only be replaced by stuff in the waterpipe, and the drug kat.
The problem is you are looking for a reason. It is true that alcohol does have negative qualities that may be a reason for it to be Haram. But, it also has many beneficial qualities. so that means the reason for it being haram probably goes beyond it's harm or benefit to humans. remember, life is a trial, part of that trial is for us to obey Allah(swt) We need not question why Allah(swt) requests us to do things, we need only know that it is He doing the request.

And why should you blindly obey god? I know God exist but I choose not to follow him.
It is your own choice not to follow Him. If that gives you comfort and security in life than do so, but be certain you are fully aware of the outcome for your choices.

If allah says its haram, why should you obey it?
No reason is needed than because Allah(swt) has said so.

I live a life that would make your imam cry, and I love it. Why should I bow to God? Why should anyone?
No reason to, unless you know Allah(swt) exists and that is what He has told you.
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vpb
06-14-2007, 07:05 PM
When Islam was created, the arabs united and started to counqer, they where far away from their water springs. The alcohol dehydrated it so they where told not to drink it,

who said they where far away from their water springs?? not all asia is as in sahara
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Sinbad
06-14-2007, 07:17 PM
I just called myself a zoroastrian cause I was born one, I never realy lved with God. And for the last time zoroastrians do not worship the fire, its just a symbol, like saying muslims are stone worshippers cause all must face Kaaba stone in mecca et c.

I dont know of the councequences of not folllowing God. And I do not belive an old book or holy scriptures written down by Man has the answer to God. He is all that is and all that ever will be, he is the creator. Why should a book or scriptures hold the answer?
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vpb
06-14-2007, 07:22 PM
like saying muslims are stone worshippers cause all must face Kaaba stone in mecca et c.
who said muslims worship the stone? They don't.

Why should a book or scriptures hold the answer?
if there is no scripture, how do u know what type of life that creator wants u to live? please explain me.
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Ra`eesah
06-14-2007, 07:31 PM
Disclaimer: The following will be said with all due respect.

Wow, this thread is crazy. I just now realized that Agnosticism is worse then Atheism, you know there is a god but you refuse to worship him?! The same God that gave you life and can take your breath and leave you soul hanging in the middle of the skies and you still chose not to obey? You must be either Stupid or arrogant. Or both.

They gave you a reasonable answer, if its anyone you blindly follow its Allaah and his Prophet (s).

But since that didn’t quench your thirst I will give you “scientific answers” if you need them.

Just watch this clip here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6QNC...elated&search=
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wilberhum
06-14-2007, 07:35 PM
if there is no scripture, how do u know what type of life that creator wants u to live? please explain me.
You are operating on the assumption that the creator has a thousand rules for you to live by.

That is not an assumption shared by all.
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wilberhum
06-14-2007, 07:37 PM
I just now realized that Agnosticism is worse then Atheism, you know there is a god but you refuse to worship him?!
I just now realized that you operate on unfounded generalizations.
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vpb
06-14-2007, 07:43 PM
Wow, this thread is crazy. I just now realized that Agnosticism is worse then Atheism, you know there is a god but you refuse to worship him?! The same God that gave you life and can take your breath and leave you soul hanging in the middle of the skies and you still chose not to obey? You must be either Stupid or arrogant. Or both.
No sis they have lost their bicycles.
but why are u suprised? what's the difference between an atheist and agnostic? they both are kuffar. they are the same thing.
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Ra`eesah
06-14-2007, 07:47 PM
yea they are all Kuffar but there are different types like I know have learnt.

Hey no offence wilberhum, but do belivev what he belives aswell? You say that stuff too?
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vpb
06-14-2007, 07:48 PM
yea they are all Kuffar but there are different types like I know have learnt.
I know there are different ones, but that is going on detail. but in general there are two nations or whatever u call them.
the kuffar and the muslimeen.
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Sinbad
06-14-2007, 08:03 PM
I said it before and I will say it again, this forum is to active, A kufir has a lot to answer.

Il take some.

I know muslims do not worshipp stones, I said that to draw pararells to zoroastrians being fire worshippers, its all about symbolism.

And about the "scientific profs", All of them existed before Islam. Islam says that the earh is round, and you could not possibly know that before right?

Wrong, Native americans and persians knew that, so dit the greeks and romans.

Persian new year is all about astronomi, the new year is when the sun shines more then before, that is what ends the winter, so its diffrent time time days e tc, cause the earth is moving.

A lot of the science in islam was known before islam. A lot of its stored in the library of Alexandria the knowledge center. It was burned down by the muslims.
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wilberhum
06-14-2007, 08:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ra`eesah
yea they are all Kuffar but there are different types like I know have learnt.

Hey no offence wilberhum, but do belivev what he belives aswell? You say that stuff too?
There are many, many different types. That is why generalizations are always wrong. :?
And when someone says "I Believe", I believe, they believe. :thumbs_up
Well except when they say "I believe that you believe". :skeleton:
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Woodrow
06-14-2007, 08:08 PM
Perhaps those of us who are Muslim do an injustice by using Arabic words when speaking with non-Muslims. It is true that we do want to use Arabic as often as possible. But, before we use Arabic words with non-Arabic speaking people it may be best if we explain what the words mean.
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mariam.
06-14-2007, 08:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sinbad
This post might get deleted...

When Islam was created, the arabs united and started to counqer, they where far away from their water springs. The alcohol dehydrated it so they where told not to drink it,:D
comic ..
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Sinbad
06-14-2007, 08:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by vpb
if there is no scripture, how do u know what type of life that creator wants u to live? please explain me.
This is intressting, so it deserves a single post. If you want it religous, another claim could be to meditate the answer. Another one, to starv yourself for enlightment et c. Others are ins cripture.

The answer, if it is one, Why would God leave it on earth? Why are humans so special? the universe is infinite, with infinite life. already been proven.

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/newsroom/pr...20020802a.html

thats where NASA tells you of Mars bacteria, thats not intelligent life but life still. And its our closest planet, imagine the entire universe.

Why in all of this should God tell us the answer in earth?

Is what Im saying confusing then it is you that have a pre determind mind.
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vpb
06-14-2007, 08:09 PM
And about the "scientific profs", All of them existed before Islam. Islam says that the earh is round, and you could not possibly know that before right?

Wrong, Native americans and persians knew that, so dit the greeks and romans.

Persian new year is all about astronomi, the new year is when the sun shines more then before, that is what ends the winter, so its diffrent time time days e tc, cause the earth is moving.

A lot of the science in islam was known before islam. A lot of its stored in the library of Alexandria the knowledge center. It was burned down by the muslims.
ok , let's assume that many things wwhich Qur'an says , people knew before? now should Allah put something opposite just bc greek or persians knew?
it's like you saying that LI is a forum, and now just bc you said LI is a forum, I have to make up something opposite and say , no LI is a computer. it doesn't make sense. so I also have to say "LI is a forum" independent of what u say. bc that's the truth. LI is a forum.
and Muhammed saws was an illiterate.
and let's not get in this type of discussion cuz we'll get off-topic.

There are many, many different types. That is why generalizations are always wrong.


And when someone says "I Believe", I believe, they believe.


Well except when they say "I believe that you believe".
No, generalization is not always wrong.

10/2 = 5 , 20 / 2 = 10,
but if we want to generalize this, we say that every even number divided by 2 , gives us the remainder of 0 (zero).

and there are two groups, believer and unbelievers. and it's nothing wrong with that.
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vpb
06-14-2007, 08:15 PM
Perhaps those of us who are Muslim do an injustice by using Arabic words when speaking with non-Muslims. It is true that we do want to use Arabic as often as possible. But, before we use Arabic words with non-Arabic speaking people it may be best if we explain what the words mean.
I understand you brother. but they know what a 'kafir' is. If they know about the stone in the kabba, they know what the word 'kafir' is. but as far as for using some other arabic words, yeah , it's true, they might not know them.


This is intressting, so it deserves a single post. If you want it religous, another claim could be to meditate the answer. Another one, to starv yourself for enlightment et c. Others are ins cripture.

The answer, if it is one, Why would God leave it on earth? Why are humans so special? the universe is infinite, with infinite life. already been proven.

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/newsroom/pr...20020802a.html

thats where NASA tells you of Mars bacteria, thats not intelligent life but life still. And its our closest planet, imagine the entire universe.

Why in all of this should God tell us the answer in earth?

Is what Im saying confusing then it is you that have a pre determind mind.
This life is just a test. so the guidance is sent, so we live the way God wants, and we get the reward on the next world.
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Sinbad
06-14-2007, 08:19 PM
ok , let's assume that many things wwhich Qur'an says , people knew before? now should Allah put something opposite just bc greek or persians knew?
it's like you saying that LI is a forum, and now just bc you said LI is a forum, I have to make up something opposite and say , no LI is a computer. it doesn't make sense. so I also have to say "LI is a forum" independent of what u say. bc that's the truth. LI is a forum.
and Muhammed saws was an illiterate.
and let's not get in this type of discussion cuz we'll get off-topic.
Yes it is irrelevant if the entire world knew about the scientific proofs of islam. But it is still very relevant, cause muslims use it as a proof. When it cant be an argument for islam being the right way.

format_quote Originally Posted by vpb
This life is just a test. so the guidance is sent, so we live the way God wants, and we get the reward on the next world.
How do you know that there is an afterlife? scriptures is all you got. Why put all your dices in one box? What if youre wrong?
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Ra`eesah
06-14-2007, 08:40 PM
Its not just about the sun, there are MANY more scientific proofs that were just "recently" discovered. Embryology for example.
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wilberhum
06-14-2007, 08:45 PM
Embryology
Every butcher knew those things. All you have to do is look.
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Umar001
06-14-2007, 08:53 PM
So Embryology can be studied at the naked eye?
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wilberhum
06-14-2007, 08:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Al Habeshi
So Embryology can be studied at the naked eye?
That is where you start.
Now of course if god whisper in someone's ear, then who knows.
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vpb
06-14-2007, 09:01 PM
Yes it is irrelevant if the entire world knew about the scientific proofs of islam. But it is still very relevant, cause muslims use it as a proof. When it cant be an argument for islam being the right way.
I have a book, it's about science and Qur'an, and the author is a Prim (higher than PhD), I just wish you could read that book, but it's not in english . There are things that he commented, that I don't think other people have even saw those things. And you would see how many things in Qur'an are told, which people knew nothing about them. but I just wish that book would be in English. I've never come across a single book like that. Now I don't want to get on that topic. unless you create a thread about it.

How do you know that there is an afterlife? scriptures is all you got. Why put all your dices in one box? What if youre wrong?
Allah az says in the Qur'an:

17:49. They say: "What! when we are reduced to bones and dust, should we really be raised up (to be) a new creation?"
17:50. Say: "(Nay!) be ye stones or iron,
17:51. "Or created matter which, in your minds, is hardest (to be raised up),- (Yet shall ye be raised up)!" then will they say: "Who will cause us to return?" Say: "He who created you first!" Then will they wag their heads towards thee, and say, "When will that be?" Say, "May be it will be quite soon!


this is indeed a fact, for people who contemplate and have healthy logic. If Allah created u the first time, why can't he create u again??



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Umar001
06-14-2007, 09:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sinbad
Nothing that is said to be haram makes any sence. Why should drinking be banned? It will only be replaced by stuff in the waterpipe, and the drug kat.
Do you see the problems that intoxicants make in society? Thus they are banned, does that seriously not make sense to you? Be honest.

format_quote Originally Posted by Sinbad
And why should you blindly obey god? I know God exist but I choose not to follow him.

If allah says its haram, why should you obey it?

I live a life that would make your imam cry, and I love it. Why should I bow to God? Why should anyone?
It depends on what type of God you believe in, I believe in One who wants the best for us, so it makes sense to follow Him.

format_quote Originally Posted by Sinbad
And about the "scientific profs", All of them existed before Islam. Islam says that the earh is round, and you could not possibly know that before right?

Wrong, Native americans and persians knew that, so dit the greeks and romans.
Please post me some further information, sounds interesting.


format_quote Originally Posted by Sinbad
A lot of the science in islam was known before islam. A lot of its stored in the library of Alexandria the knowledge center. It was burned down by the muslims.
If it was burned down how do you know what it contained? If it was recorded and that is how you know then please show evidence. :)

format_quote Originally Posted by Sinbad
Why in all of this should God tell us the answer in earth?
Do you believe we are on earth by chance?

format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
That is where you start.
Now of course if god whisper in someone's ear, then who knows.
Do you mean the discription of an embroy can be give thorugh study under the naked eye? Me and you could butcher a woman and distinguish what part is what from all the blood then identify it all and then insticivly know which part is the embroy and then comment on it?
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wilberhum
06-14-2007, 09:19 PM
Do you mean the discription of an embroy can be give thorugh study under the naked eye? Me and you could butcher a woman and distinguish what part is what from all the blood then identify it all and then insticivly know which part is the embroy and then comment on it?
Give me a quote and let's see what happens.
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vpb
06-14-2007, 09:21 PM
Do you mean the discription of an embroy can be give thorugh study under the naked eye? Me and you could butcher a woman and distinguish what part is what from all the blood then identify it all and then insticivly know which part is the embroy and then comment on it?
yes, greeks, persians' eyes were different from us. they had microscope integrated on their eyes. didn't u know?
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vpb
06-14-2007, 09:23 PM
A) The Quran on Human Embryonic Development:

In the Holy Quran, God speaks about the stages of man’s embryonic development:

We created man from an extract of clay. Then We made him as a drop in a place of settlement, firmly fixed. Then We made the drop into an alaqah (leech, suspended thing, and blood clot), then We made the alaqah into a mudghah (chewed substance)...

1 (Quran, 23:12-14)
Literally, the Arabic word alaqah has three meanings: (1) leech, (2) suspended thing, and (3) blood clot.
In comparing a leech to an embryo in the alaqah stage, we find similarity between the two2 as we can see in figure 1. Also, the embryo at this stage obtains nourishment from the blood of the mother, similar to the leech, which feeds on the blood of others.3

Figure 1: Drawings illustrating the similarities in appearance between a leech and a human embryo at the alaqah stage. (Leech drawing from Human Development as Described in the Quran and Sunnah, Moore and others, p. 37, modified from Integrated Principles of Zoology, Hickman and others. Embryo drawing from The Developing Human, Moore and Persaud, 5th ed., p. 73.)
The second meaning of the word alaqah is “suspended thing.” This is what we can see in figures 2 and 3, the suspension of the embryo, during the alaqah stage, in the womb of the mother.
Figure 2: We can see in this diagram the suspension of an embryo during the alaqah stage in the womb (uterus) of the mother. (The Developing Human, Moore and Persaud, 5th ed., p. 66.) (Click on the image to enlarge it.)

Figure 3: In this photomicrograph, we can see the suspension of an embryo (marked B) during the alaqah stage (about 15 days old) in the womb of the mother. The actual size of the embryo is about 0.6 mm. (The Developing Human, Moore, 3rd ed., p. 66, from Histology, Leeson and Leeson.)

The third meaning of the word alaqah is “blood clot.” We find that the external appearance of the embryo and its sacs during the alaqah stage is similar to that of a blood clot. This is due to the presence of relatively large amounts of blood present in the embryo during this stage4 (see figure 4). Also during this stage, the blood in the embryo does not circulate until the end of the third week.5 Thus, the embryo at this stage is like a clot of blood.
Figure 4: Diagram of the primitive cardiovascular system in an embryo during the alaqah stage. The external appearance of the embryo and its sacs is similar to that of a blood clot, due to the presence of relatively large amounts of blood present in the embryo. (The Developing Human, Moore, 5th ed., p. 65.) (Click on the image to enlarge it.)

So the three meanings of the word alaqah correspond accurately to the descriptions of the embryo at the alaqah stage.
The next stage mentioned in the verse is the mudghah stage. The Arabic word mudghah means “chewed substance.” If one were to take a piece of gum and chew it in his or her mouth and then compare it with an embryo at the mudghah stage, we would conclude that the embryo at the mudghah stage acquires the appearance of a chewed substance. This is because of the somites at the back of the embryo that “somewhat resemble teethmarks in a chewed substance.”6 (see figures 5 and 6).
Figure 5: Photograph of an embryo at the mudghah stage (28 days old). The embryo at this stage acquires the appearance of a chewed substance, because the somites at the back of the embryo somewhat resemble teeth marks in a chewed substance. The actual size of the embryo is 4 mm. (The Developing Human, Moore and Persaud, 5th ed., p. 82, from Professor Hideo Nishimura, Kyoto University, Kyoto, Japan.)


Figure 6: When comparing the appearance of an embryo at the mudghah stage with a piece of gum that has been chewed, we find similarity between the two.
A) Drawing of an embryo at the mudghah stage. We can see here the somites at the back of the embryo that look like teeth marks. (The Developing Human, Moore and Persaud, 5th ed., p. 79.)
B) Photograph of a piece of gum that has been chewed.
(Click on the image to enlarge it.)


How could Muhammad

have possibly known all this 1400 years ago, when scientists have only recently discovered this using advanced equipment and powerful microscopes which did not exist at that time? Hamm and Leeuwenhoek were the first scientists to observe human sperm cells (spermatozoa) using an improved microscope in 1677 (more than 1000 years after Muhammad

). They mistakenly thought that the sperm cell contained a miniature preformed human being that grew when it was deposited in the female genital tract.7



source: http://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1-a.htm
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saira-k
06-14-2007, 09:35 PM
yeah i know!
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wilberhum
06-14-2007, 09:39 PM
We created man from an extract of clay
Well that just about covers it. :skeleton:
But when I have some research time I will work on the details.

PS there is nothing from the Quran that could not be seen with the eye alone.

How could Muhammad have possibly known all this 1400 years ago
There is nothing in the quote that says he knew any of this.
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al-muslimah
06-14-2007, 09:42 PM
i nreally don't think u should be asking these questions because allah made it unlawful to us in the first place and he has the perfefct judgement.in surah al-baqarah allah made the following things haram.so we should accept.
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vpb
06-14-2007, 10:33 PM
Quote:
How could Muhammad have possibly known all this 1400 years ago
There is nothing in the quote that says he knew any of this.
ok, let's take an example,

when was the first, I mean exactly the first time that the human discovered that the universe is expanding constantly?
or, another one
when was the first time, when the humankind discovered that by going up to the sky, the amount of oxygen decreases, and so the person starts having the phase of hipocsy?

please provide me with necessary information ,and then i'll get back to u with my information.

Let's see how far u can go :)
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Pygoscelis
06-14-2007, 10:39 PM
Never before have I heard that Islam has something against dogs.

It never ocurred to me that my avatar may be offensive to some here.

Explains a bit though. Every arab I've ever met here (be they muslim, sikh, whatever) seems to be very uncomfortable around my dog. He's my best buddy though. He's not out to get ya. I promise. :D
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vpb
06-14-2007, 10:43 PM
Never before have I heard that Islam has something against dogs.

It never ocurred to me that my avatar may be offensive to some here.

Explains a bit though. Every arab I've ever met here (be they muslim, sikh, whatever) seems to be very uncomfortable around my dog. He's my best buddy though. He's not out to get ya. I promise.
dude, don't take it wrong. We don't hate dogs.
it's just that it is haram to keep dogs unless u use them for hunting or if you are a sheperd :) cleaningness is very important in Islam. :)
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wilberhum
06-14-2007, 10:50 PM
when was the first time, when the humankind discovered that by going up to the sky
Oh silly, silly. The first time he climed a mountan. :skeleton:
I find it so sad when people try to make holy books science books.
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vpb
06-14-2007, 10:53 PM
Oh silly, silly. The first time he climed a mountan.

do u know the height when the phase of hipocsy starts to show off???
I find it so sad when people try to make holy books science books.
We NEVER said that Qur'an is a book of science. But Qur'an contains some scientific facts, which are one of the wings of the 'PROOF', that Qur'an is the word of God. :)


but please get back to me with proper information . instead of telling me that i'm silly :p
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wilberhum
06-14-2007, 11:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by vpb
do u know the height when the phase of hipocsy starts to show off???
We NEVER said that Qur'an is a book of science. But Qur'an contains some scientific facts, which are one of the wings of the 'PROOF', that Qur'an is the word of God. :)


but please get back to me with proper information . instead of telling me that i'm silly :p
Read my signature.
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vpb
06-14-2007, 11:02 PM
Read my signature.
ok. :) it's up to you. Allah az gave us both brains :) . My brain is mine, yours is yours :)
so are you going to tell me what I asked for??? :D
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wilberhum
06-14-2007, 11:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by vpb
ok. :) it's up to you. Allah az gave us both brains :) . My brain is mine, yours is yours :)
so are you going to tell me what I asked for??? :D
How does any one provide "Proof" with out a common defination. :skeleton:
I think "Moby-Dick" provides Proof for anything I want. Are you OK with that?
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vpb
06-14-2007, 11:07 PM
wilberhum, are stuggling to find me some basic information on what height the phase of hipocsy starts to show off? and who discovered it first? or when?

also u forgot the second one, u didn't mention it . :)
come on :) let's see how good Qur'an is. :)
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snakelegs
06-14-2007, 11:08 PM
trust is part of belief.
when people believe in a religion, they trust god to know what is right for them. i see nothing wrong with the reply "because god said so" when it comes to particular laws, like what is haram. makes sense to me. there's no need to rationalize it.
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vpb
06-14-2007, 11:08 PM
How does any one provide "Proof" with out a common defination.


I think "Moby-Dick" provides Proof for anything I want. Are you OK with that?
don't sneak around, let's talk like men :p:p.

you wanted to get on showing that Qur'an doesn't show things which humans didn't know before. now I think you have to continue the path :)
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F@tim@
06-14-2007, 11:10 PM
Allah made these things haraam so end of!

I cannot understand how a person can eat an animal which rolls around in its faeces all day, has sexual intercourse with its own parent and eats what it descretes(however its spelt)! *pukes up*+o( Pig is THE filthiest animal to live!

Also, alcohol is haraam because of the after effects i.e drunkeness. Hadhrat Ali was once praying his namaaz when he made a major mistake in the words of Surah Ikhlaas. He had been drinking alcohol. The Quranic ayah was revealed that 'do not come near salaah and you are drunk'.
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vpb
06-14-2007, 11:10 PM
trust is part of belief.
when people believe in a religion, they trust god to know what is right for them. i see nothing wrong with the reply "because god said so" when it comes to particular laws, like what is haram. makes sense to me. there's no need to rationalize it.
I love you snake :), here we go someone who understands.
it's like math, people don't have to bring independent proof for everything they want to prove, they just say , it's proven it works, bc it works with theorem of pithagora. why? bc once theorem of pithagora was proved by indepedent proof, so there is no need for theories that come later to bring independent proof. they just use the pithagora's theorem. that's why once we prove Allah az is the only God, and Muhammed is his messenger, whatever they say, we take it, and don't question it. :)
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F@tim@
06-14-2007, 11:13 PM
http://www.islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=9803

The thing about dogs.
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NoName55
06-14-2007, 11:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sinbad
Yes it is irrelevant if the entire world knew about the scientific proofs of islam. But it is still very relevant, cause muslims use it as a proof. When it cant be an argument for islam being the right way.



How do you know that there is an afterlife? scriptures is all you got. Why put all your dices in one box? What if youre wrong?
had all that fireworship not overheated some people's gray matter, thay would know that Islam means submission to Allah from the day Hazrat Aadam alaisalaam was createdd who was the first Muslim.

Islaam was not created 1400 years ago
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wilberhum
06-14-2007, 11:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by vpb
wilberhum, are stuggling to find me some basic information on what height the phase of hipocsy starts to show off? and who discovered it first? or when?

also u forgot the second one, u didn't mention it . :)
come on :) let's see how good Qur'an is. :)
I have no desire to chalange your faith. (Honestly)

The silly distortions have been debunked by better men than either of us.

So I go copy/paste someone elses work and you go copy/paste someone's work.

At the end of the day, you will think the mountains are holding up the sky and I will say the mountains are the result of tectonics.

It is all quite pointless. :skeleton:
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vpb
06-14-2007, 11:39 PM
I have no desire to chalange your faith. (Honestly)
then don't tell muslims that Qur'an doesn't show anything that people didn't know before. When you speak something you have to hold it on your shoulders.

The silly distortions have been debunked by better men than either of us.

So I go copy/paste someone elses work and you go copy/paste someone's work.
nobody is born with knowledge, so as we grow up we gain knowledge, so it doesn't metter if you point people to articles or explain them, the final point is to show them what they want.

At the end of the day, you will think the mountains are holding up the sky and I will say the mountains are the result of tectonics.
MUSLIMS DON'T BELIEVE MOUNTAINS HOLD UP THE SKY. !!!! where did u get that?
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F@tim@
06-14-2007, 11:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by NoName55
had all that fireworship not overheated some people's gray matter, thay would know that Islam means submission to Allah from the day Hazrat Aadam alaisalaam was createdd who was the first Muslim.

Islaam was not created 1400 years ago
:D :thumbs_up
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wilberhum
06-14-2007, 11:55 PM
You know I really wanted to let this go. But you don’t, so here we go.

then don't tell muslims that Qur'an doesn't show anything that people didn't know before. When you speak something you have to hold it on your shoulders.
Not wanting to insult you or challenge your faith has nothing to do with accepting reality. It is obvious to any non-Muslim that these, never known before stuff, are just total false hood. If you take off your “Faith Blinders” you could see the absurdity.

nobody is born with knowledge, so as we grow up we gain knowledge, so it doesn't metter if you point people to articles or explain them, the final point is to show them what they want.
One of the ways we gain knowledge is utilizing others knowledge.
If you exclude all sources that don’t favor what you want, your knowledge will be severely limited.
MUSLIMS DON'T BELIEVE MOUNTAINS HOLD UP THE SKY.
Steady the earth or whatever. I have no intention of trying to state what Muslims believe.

I believe in plate tectonics and other non Pseudo-scientific theories.

Today's sillyness is over. I'm off to see my wife and rejoin the real world.
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Skavau
06-15-2007, 12:34 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
The problem is you are looking for a reason. It is true that alcohol does have negative qualities that may be a reason for it to be Haram. But, it also has many beneficial qualities. so that means the reason for it being haram probably goes beyond it's harm or benefit to humans. remember, life is a trial, part of that trial is for us to obey Allah(swt) We need not question why Allah(swt) requests us to do things, we need only know that it is He doing the request.
Then if this is the case where authority is merely necessary for morality, then it loses all meaning. It is an appeal to authority. X is not good because Y says it is. That does not validate the ethical claim behind the action. This is why certain ideas of morality in theism can be completely arbitrary and the Euthyphro Dilemma is called into question. Does God will X because it is good or is it good because God wills it?

format_quote Originally Posted by Ra'eema
Wow, this thread is crazy. I just now realized that Agnosticism is worse then Atheism, you know there is a god but you refuse to worship him?! The same God that gave you life and can take your breath and leave you soul hanging in the middle of the skies and you still chose not to obey? You must be either Stupid or arrogant. Or both.
Agnosticism is the assertion that you do not know if there is a God or not.

format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
trust is part of belief.
when people believe in a religion, they trust god to know what is right for them. i see nothing wrong with the reply "because god said so" when it comes to particular laws, like what is haram. makes sense to me. there's no need to rationalize it.
Yes. But I don't see how that is a point in its favour.
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Woodrow
06-15-2007, 01:42 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Skavau
Then if this is the case where authority is merely necessary for morality, then it loses all meaning. It is an appeal to authority. X is not good because Y says it is. That does not validate the ethical claim behind the action. This is why certain ideas of morality in theism can be completely arbitrary and the Euthyphro Dilemma is called into question. Does God will X because it is good or is it good because God wills it?.
Perhaps there is another possibility. Partaking in some haram activities would not be immoral in the context of social morality. They are only wrong because we wish to obey Allah(swt) and have been told that he has commanded us to avoid that which is haram. It is an obedience to authority and not an appeal to authority.

Does God will X because it is good or is it good because God wills it?.
Does not necessarily need to be either, can be because it is what God(swt) has told us to do and if we believe in God(swt) and know that it is His word, it need be for no other person.

Life is just a temporary trial, this is our kindergarten period of eternity. What we learn and obey here determines on if we get a passing grade. We have no need to worry about how or why God(swt) tells us to do anything.
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Malaikah
06-15-2007, 01:59 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sinbad
This post might get deleted...

When Islam was created, the arabs united and started to counqer, they where far away from their water springs. The alcohol dehydrated it so they where told not to drink it,:D
The alcohol dehydrated? What about the water? How come they didn't die!?
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north_malaysian
06-15-2007, 02:07 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sinbad

Why is blood forbidden to drink or eat? I love blood, especially as pudding but sausage is good to!
A bloody pudding ---> +o( are you vampire or something?

Plus the Jews dont eat pigs and drink bloods too.. not only Arabs
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snakelegs
06-15-2007, 02:15 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Skavau
Yes. But I don't see how that is a point in its favour.
i don't take a position on it - i merely say that it is not difficult to understand a response (as to why certain things are haram) such as "because god says so". religion, and belief in general (i believe in god, but not religion), is not based on rationality, nor does it need to be. it's a different system, with its own dynamics. if people believe in a religion, it makes perfect sense that they would follow its laws because they trust that god knows what he is doing and submit to his commands.
so, i don't advocate it one way or the other - but i understand it and see nothing wrong with it.
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vpb
06-15-2007, 04:09 AM
Not wanting to insult you or challenge your faith has nothing to do with accepting reality. It is obvious to any non-Muslim that these, never known before stuff, are just total false hood. If you take off your “Faith Blinders” you could see the absurdity.
Don't worry I don't get insulted that easy :) . Where is the 'faith blinders', when we haven't discuss the scientific facts yet?? it's like without trying a food, to judge and say wether it's sweet or bitter.

Steady the earth or whatever.
lol, don't make statement about someone when you're not sure what they believe.

I believe in plate tectonics and other non Pseudo-scientific theories.
You can believe that metal is made from plastic. I don't mind. believe what you want :) Allah az has brought Qur'an with its signs in every field scientific, social ...etc., which there is no contradicition with today's science. And if you think that that it's not the case, we can just open a thread and dicuss any of the matters :) threads are free.

Today's sillyness is over. I'm off to see my wife and rejoin the real world.
:)
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wilberhum
06-15-2007, 05:20 PM
which there is no contradicition with today's science
You always turn it don't you. I never said there was a contradicition. I said the "Scientific Facts" were not unknown.
Is it that you can't see the difference, can't understand the difference or won't acknowledge the difference?
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vpb
06-16-2007, 05:39 AM
You always turn it don't you. I never said there was a contradicition. I said the "Scientific Facts" were not unknown.
Is it that you can't see the difference, can't understand the difference or won't acknowledge the difference?
I invited you to discuss about that the scientific facts that were unknown among people at that time that Qur'an talked about, but you refused to discuss.
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wilberhum
06-16-2007, 08:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by vpb
I invited you to discuss about that the scientific facts that were unknown among people at that time that Qur'an talked about, but you refused to discuss.
As I remember it I stated that any Butcher would know about embryology. You present a load of stuff that is not stated in the Quran and then claim that it was there. Dua.
Oh well you can think that “made from clay” is scientific, but I don’t. :skeleton:
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- Qatada -
06-16-2007, 08:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
As I remember it I stated that any Butcher would know about embryology. You present a load of stuff that is not stated in the Quran and then claim that it was there. Dua.
Oh well you can think that “made from clay” is scientific, but I don’t. :skeleton:

Sheikh Muhammad Mutwalli Ash-Sha`rawi comments:

If we take dust and add water to it, it will be mud. If it is left for some time, it will turn into clay. These are simply the stages of the creation of man. Man thus comes from dust, turned into clay after the addition of water. If we scrutinize this issue, we will find out that man, in his daily life, needs earth and depends on it in so many aspects. It is this earthy soil where we grow the plants upon which we live. Thus, preserving the materials of man depends on the source from which these materials are created.


Scientists have analyzed the human body and found that it is composed of 16 substances including oxygen and manganese. These elements are no more than the elements of the earth?s crust. This experiment was not meant for proving the credibility of the Qur'an; rather, it was solely for scientific research purposes.


In addition, death itself serves as a proof of creation. When we try to demolish a building, we follow the reverse order of building it; we start with the last floor. By the same token, since we have not eye-witnessed the creation of man, then we shall see how death occurs. Actually, we witness several deaths everyday. When man dies, his soul leaves his body, then the decline starts; his body becomes dry (which is similar to the stage of clay) and then decays and turns finally into dust which was his original substance. Life is given to man through the soul that is blown into his body. When the soul departs, man dies and starts his way back to his original form going through the stages of his first creation. Thus, death stands as a living proof for creation (SOURCE)
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wilberhum
06-16-2007, 08:43 PM
Qatada
Faith is an amazing attribute of humanity.

Wilber
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al-muslimah
06-17-2007, 03:55 PM
u know i really don't know why u are talking wilberhum!if u don't have the guts to have allah(god) in your heart or any sense of believing in him then u have no sense of knowledge.people like will suffer the great punishment of the hellfire.so may allah guide your heart to the right path(islam).ameen
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Skavau
06-17-2007, 04:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by al-muslimah
u know i really don't know why u are talking wilberhum!if u don't have the guts to have allah(god) in your heart or any sense of believing in him then u have no sense of knowledge.people like will suffer the great punishment of the hellfire.so may allah guide your heart to the right path(islam).ameen
Appeal to Force and I'm sure your claim that only Muslims can have knowledge surely smacks another logical fallacy somewhere. I'm not entirely sure it is an ad hominem either.
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islamirama
06-17-2007, 04:50 PM
4 pages of jiber jabbing and hardly anything worth readnig let alone answer the poor guy's questions....


Sinbad,

You have to understand that everything that Muslims do today (religion wise) is based on the Quran and the Sunnah (way of the Prophet *saws*). What ever is haraam or halaal is becuase Allah made it to be. No one has any authority other than Allah to make that call. So An overall to all your questions is that Allah commanded us and we obey. Sometimes we know why but sometimes we don't know and won't know and sometimes we find out later as our knowledge of the world around us increases and then we understand the Allah's wisdom of making something haraam or halaa.

As you know Quran is thet word of Allah and so Allah is the author of this book and no on has put anything it or taken out since it's revelations. Here is what Allah says on all those questions you mentioned:

2: 173 " He has forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and flesh of swine , and on which any other name has been invoked besides that of Allah. But if one is forced by necessity without willful disobedience, nor transgressing, due limits.... than he is not guilty, for Allah is forgiving, merciful."

5:4 " Forbidden to you are: Dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine and that on which has been invoked a name other than Allah's, and that killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death: That which has been eaten by a wild animal: Unless you are able to slaughter it, that which has been sacrificed on stone: (forbidden) also is the divination of arrows: that is impiety. 

6:145 "Say: I find not in the Message received by me by inspiration any meat forbidden to be eaten by one who wishes to eat of it, unless it be dead meat, or blood poured forth, or the flesh of swine, for it is an abomination, - or what is impious, (meat) on which a name has been invoked, other than God's. But even so, if a person is forced by necessity without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits, - Your Lord is Oft-Forgiving , Most Merciful."

16:115 "He has-only forbidden you dead meat, and blood; and the flesh of swine, and any (food) over which the name of other than God has been invoked. But if one is forced by necessity without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits, - Your Lord is Oft-Forgiving , Most Merciful."



And now i'll go into details inshallah to answer each question individually.

First, a little pre-information...


HORMONES:

These are the powerful secretions of Endocfine (internal) glands. They control the functions of all organs, and even individual cells. They are made from proteins (peptides) or sterols in nature. The endocrine glands are hypothalmus which secretes various releasing hormones for pituitary, and pituitary which secretes hormones for target endocrine glands. Both of them are inside the brain. Target endocrine glands are thyroid hormones.


Thyroid hormones control our metabolism, energy level, and temperature tolerance. Behind them are para-thyroid gland which control our calcium metabolism. In the abdomen are adrenal glands above the kidneys which secrete cortisone, the life saving essential hormone, and catecholamines and aldosterone which control our blood pressure and heart-rate. steroids and catecholamines are derived from cholesterol. Also in the abdomen is the pancreas which secretes insulin which lowers blood sugar, and glycogen which raises a low blood sugar. Lower down in the pelvis are gonads, ovaries in women, and testes in men, which secrete estrogen, progesterone and testosterone respectively. All these hormones have internal control, and influence each other. They control our growth, muscle mass, bone development, temperature tolerance, blood pressure, energy, fertility, sex desire, thirst, and well being in general.

HOW DO HORMONES AFFECT BEHAVIOR:

The site of secretion of releasing hormone, and of neurotransmitter in the brain are the same in the hypothalmic area. Most of the psychotropic drugs either act by increasing or decreasing the neurotransmitter levels i.e epinephrine, norepinephrine, serotonin, dopamine or endorphrin level in the hypothalmic area. Similarly, peurotransmitters influence hormone secretion.

Clinically we see various behavioral manifestations in endocrine disorders. Hypoglycemic patients (low blood sugar) suffer from depression and poor mental concentration and patients with low thyroid have impotency and depression, while patients with high thyroid have agitation, irritability, and lack of sleep. Patients with low cortisone (Addison Disease) have severe depression while with high cortisone have hallucination and psychosis. Patients with high testosterone have been claimed to have criminal tendencies (i.e. rapists) while low testosterone have behavioral problems in adjustment. Patients with calcium changes.

Physiologically, boys and girls are different in playing behavior i.e. aggressive versus passive (playing with mechanical toys and guns versus dolls) due to difference in their sex hormone even in pre-pubertal age. This becomes more obvious after full sex differentiation takes place. In fact, by changing the sex hormone level of a given sex one can change not only the sexual behavior but the aggressiveness of a particular sex. Homosexual males have been noted to have less male sex hormones, and on the other hand, repeated sex offending males can be "cured" by castration or by the injection of the female hormone progesterone. In one experiment, female rats whose mothers were treated with testosterone while pregnant showed male behavior pattern of threatening peer, rough play, and increased sexual activity as compared to a control rat. This shows that testosterone not only affects the individual, but the offspring as well. Girls with congenital adrenal hyperplasia (excessive testosterone secretion) when in post puberty age show tomboy attitude with liking rough sports, preferring boys as playmates, and low interest in dolls and baby care. Sexual behavior is not only affected by testosterone, but also by the pineal gland which is turned off and on by light and darkness.

Hormones, not directly but indirectly by controlling\sugar, calcium, sodium balance,affect behavior in general to include anger, love, anxiety, panic attacks, and agitation. The hyperactivity in children could be due to low blood sugar or due to many food preservatives and coloring agent like nitrites, and Dye No. 5.





format_quote Originally Posted by Sinbad
Why does islam say that pigs are haram? Iv heard its cause the arabs used to have sheeps that can stand being slaughtered and then exploited under the sun. while pigs have to be in cooled areas or they will be bad for you.
And the arabs slaughtered them let them stand and they got bad and they made it haram.

HORMONAL AND BEHAVIORAL EEFFECT OF PORK MEAT AND FAT INGESTION:

Pork meat and fat are not only prohibited to Muslims, but were also prohibited to Jews and Christians as well because "Swine were designed to be scavengers, to eat up filth." In old testament Leviticus Chapter 7-8, it is mentioned about swine " Though he divides the hoof and be cloven footed, yet he cheweth not the cud, he is unclean to you. Of their flesh shall you not eat." There is no mention in the Bible that Jesus ever ate pork in his life. It was Paul who declared all food and drink permissible saying, "To the pure, everything is pure."

THE LIFE OF THE SWINE:

To get a first hand idea, I interviewed farmers of Fisher, Indiana, who breed swine. According to them "Swine is cheaper to breed, since it does not require pasture, it can live on manure and other such items including dead meat. In fact, it can even eat its own feces. Their sexual habits are also different from other animals like cow, sheep and goat. Swine have very little shame i.e. engage in sex acts anytime anyplace. The female hog is very aggressive in sexual activities when she is in "heat" she does not care about anything (i.e. food or privacy) until she has the sex. They i.e. swine, also lick the genitals of their partners after sex like dogs, but not other mammals like cow, sheep or goat."

WHY IS PORK FAT DIFFERENT FROM OTHER ANIMAL FAT:

Fats are lipids which are a source of energy. They can be of vegetable source or of animal source. Triglycerides are neutral fats with 1 molecule of glycerol and three fatty acids. The fatty acids can be saturated or unsaturated.The more unsaturated fats have high melting points. The iodine value of fat gives the degree of un saturation. The iodine value of lard is 65, beef 45, and mutton 32. After ingestion, emulsification of fat takes place in the stomach by gastric lipase. By pancreatic lipase hydrolysis of triglyceride into glycerol and fatty acids takes place. The fatty acids and glycerol are used by various tissues like muscle, heart, kidney, and liver for an energy source. Herbivorous (plant eating) animals have unsaturated fatty acid on the position 2 of the triglyceride (tg) molecule, while the carnivorous (meat eating )animals have saturated fatty acid at the position 2. Pancreatic lipase (pl) can not hydrolyze TG molecule if saturated fatty acid at position 2. Fat of dogs, rats, cats, and pork, have saturated fatty acids on positions 2. If a person eats fat of herbivomus animal, the fat will be hydrolyzed, absorbed, and then re synthesized and stored as human fat, while that of carnivorous animals and pork fat will not be hydrolyzed and therefore has to be deposited in humans as pork fat in the adipose tissue.

WHAT HAS DEPOSITION OF PORK FAT TO DO WITH HORMONE AND BEHAVIOR IN HUMANS:

Circulating hormones are in bound form and free form. The free form has to be attached to receptor in fat tissue before becoming active. Obesity decreases the number of receptors therefore the hormones cannot be utilized. Therefore, if the hormone is insulin, it leads to diabetes (type 2); and if it is testosterone, it leads to sub fertility and amenorrhea. The amount of fat also controls hormone release. Therefore we see menarche is delayed in athletic girls with less fat, and occurs early in sedentary overweight girls.

It can be postulated that in humans who have pork fat deposit there is derangement in the binding of hormones, therefore they have a higher level of circulating active hormone. It is possible that the sexual promiscuity and deviant sexual practices of pork eating society is due to what they eat! After all, it has been said by nutritionists, "Yor are what you eat."

Since this is a paper on hormones and behavior, the time does not permit discussing the effect of pork on cholesterol, sodium and the relationship to heart disease.



-----------

Also you will find this interesting.....

------------

A Pig’s Tale

Millions of dollars are spent each year to understand which foods are healthy and which are not. Did you know that this information was documented millennia ago?

BY BRADFORD G. SCHLEIFER

Each day, millions of people consume three square meals, intended to power their bodies throughout the day. In the hustle and bustle of our modern society, these meals are increasingly becoming more processed and less natural than at any time in history.

How is this affecting society’s overall health? The result can be seen in the explosion of sickness, disease and overall lack of good health. But most never make the connection between what they eat and how they feel-and are doomed to a lifetime of illness and fatigue.

Much of the problem is directly tied to a social ignorance of health, diet and our bodies. Modern science has not helped. While having a discussion relating to health and diet, one nutritionist, who develops menus for high schools, stated that the link between what one eats and how one feels has been blown out of proportion. She went on to state that the origin of sickness is unknown, and that this is the reason we have doctors.

But what have doctors and medical science been able to accomplish? Very few illnesses and diseases are actually cured, and fewer still are prevented! Western medicine has been designed to react to an illness and not help one prevent illnesses and maintain health.

It is interesting to note that most recognize what poisons do to the body. They understand that if one consumes cyanide, he will die. Conversely, many parents tell their kids to “eat your vegetables.” Yet, a broader connection to diet is never established.

There exists a book written millennia ago that details what mankind should and should not eat to maintain health and avoid disease. That book, man’s overall Instruction Manual on how to live, is the Bible. As you will see, science continues to prove the laws contained in its pages! However, mankind has ignored this book as a source of knowledge and has spent the last 6,000 years trying to “figure out” what was already written.

In the second book of the Bible, a very detailed set of dietary laws are established. These set the basis for what creatures were designed to be eaten and which ones were created for other purposes. Leviticus 11 describes each of these animals in detail, but in this short article, we will cover only the most popular. We will look at the science of the matter, and show that the Bible has been right all along.
The body of evidence is vast and it may change what makes up your three square meals forever.

“The Other White Meat”

Without a doubt, the most popular of these animals are pigs. This pug-nosed “treat” is served in backyards as pork chops, at breakfast tables as bacon or as delicacies in five-star restaurants. Supporting its consumption are powerful organizations that push its health and safety in the media and political lobbies. The result is that swine comprises a large portion of the North American menu.

But is it as safe and healthy as some would have you believe?

Much insight into the pig can be ascertained by how they are raised and what they will eat. Many have heard the expression, “you are what you eat,” and what a pig will eat is shocking. We will also look at how pigs digest their food and how they differ from many other meats.

A pig’s digestive system-unlike a cow’s-is not designed to filter toxins from its system. These toxins work their way through the pig and are deposited in the animal’s flesh-especially in its fat deposits. The pig itself is actually able to sustain very high levels of toxins in its system. As such, it can eat just about anything. So much so that it has actually been reported that in an effort to keep feed costs down, pig farmers will purchase garbage, such as rotting meat and vegetables from restaurants, to feed their pigs-and the pigs can be sustained on it. However, there is nothing in the pig’s digestive system, or the processing of the meat, that removes these toxins.

Farmers have even reported pigs chewing and eating the cancer of other animals!
More interesting still is the time it takes for such things, like the garbage and cancer described above, to become flesh. For most animals, this is a much slower process, taking about 12 hours. This gives the animal’s digestive system time to filter toxins, poisons and deadly parasites from entering the bloodstream and being deposited in its flesh. Also, because most food is turned into muscle, more time is required for that muscle to form.

The same is not true for the pig. Much of what it eats quickly turns into flesh in just four hours. Not only does this mean that toxins are not filtered, but most of the flesh takes the form of fat!

Even in humans, body fat is where most toxins are stored. Typically, when the body does not know how to deal with a substance, it surrounds it with fat and stores it to keep the rest of the body safe from that substance. The same is true in pigs. While they have other methods to dump the extremely deadly toxins from their system, the highest concentration will be in the fat tissue.

This is why a March 1950 Reader’s Digest article stated that pork contains “myriads of baffling and sinister parasites.” But this should not be a surprise.

Cleaners-Not Clean Meat

Pigs are designed as natural vacuum cleaners. They will eat just about anything-garbage, carcasses or even their own urine and feces. Most of this consumption causes no harm to the pig. They were designed to do such things. They are so efficient at the task that when land is cleared for a golf course, pigs are let loose to eat all the poisonous snakes-with no harm to the pigs.

Every animal has its purpose. Scavengers, such as the pig, are designed to clean-not to be eaten! Some of the “cleaning” features of the pig are remarkable.

One such feature is located under its hooves. Often referred to as poison ducts or running sores, these “sores” act as a conduit for poisons to ooze from the pig’s body. This is one reason pigs can eat poisonous snakes that would kill other creatures and not be affected themselves. However, these ducts will often become “plugged” from the amount of toxins pigs must excrete from their bodies. If this becomes the case, a farmer must quickly have the pig slaughtered and sent to the market before it dies. As you may well imagine, the meat from such an animal is riddled with parasites and toxins.

One case-in-point: A mink farm in New Holstein, Wisconsin ordered beef livers to feed their minks. The supplier accidentally shipped pig livers instead. The result? Every mink that ate the livers died!

The toxicity of the animal is not just limited to meat and organs! Even the saliva of the pig can be horribly infectious. In fact, one disease, called “mad itch,” will cause a cow to rub all the skin from its mouth-to the point of suicide. All that is required for cows to contract this disease is to come in contact with a pig’s saliva residue in shared food supplies!

Worm Civilizations

Inside the animal is a myriad of worms and parasites. For instance, a pig can sustain 19 different kinds of worms inside its body. Some have very minor effects in humans, but others have much more long-lasting effects.

One such organism is the worm responsible for trichinosis. This is also the most widely published of the worms found in pork that affect humans.

Like most organisms found in pork, this worm is contracted when one consumes meat containing trichinae larva. Once in your intestine, these larvae hatch from their protective cysts and grow into adult roundworms. These roundworms then produce offspring that can burrow through your intestinal wall. From this point, they enter your lymphatic system and can move throughout your body via the bloodstream. They then implant themselves in tissues that allow them to grow.

Studies have shown that their larvae have been found in heart, diaphragm, lung and brain tissue. Those infected with trichinosis can experience a wide range of symptoms-abdominal discomfort, cramping, diarrhea, muscle pain (especially muscle pain with breathing, chewing, or using large muscles) and fever. If the damage to the tissue is severe, the long-term problems are never-ending.

And this is just one of the 19 parasites found in pork!

SYMPTOMS OF TRICHINOSIS

Many assume that trichinosis is uncommon in the modern day. This is mostly due to the fact that this disease is extremely hard to detect in humans.

Trichinosis is often misdiagnosed as any of the following: Arthritis, acute alcoholism, conjunctivitis, food poisoning, lead poisoning, heart disease, laryngitis, mumps, asthma, rheumatism, rheumatic fever, rheumatic myocarditis, gout, tuberculosis, angioneurotic edema, dermatomyositis, frontal sinusitis, influenza, nephritis, peptic ulcer, appendicitis, cholecystitis, malaria, scarlet fever, typhoid fever, paratyphoid fever, undulant fever, encephalitis, gastroenteritis, intercoastal neuritis, tetanus, pleurisy, colitis, meningitis, syphilis, typhus and cholera.

UNDER FINGERNAILS: Trichinosis, as shown here, can be manifested by splinter hemorrhages under the finger nails.

MICROSCOPIC VIEW: This micrograph reveals developing Trichinella cysts within human muscle tissue. After exposure to gastric acid and pepsin, the larvae are released from the cysts and invade the small bowel mucosa where they develop into adult worms. After one week, the females release larvae that migrate to the striated muscles where they encyst.


This is why Dr. Maurice C. Hall, Zoology Chief at the U.S. Public Health Service, stated, “It appears to be a legitimate demand that, when a man exchanges dollars for pork, he should not do it, on the basis that he may be purchasing his death warrant.” This statement was made many years ago, leaving some to wonder if the pork purchased today is much leaner and healthier (as asserted by suppliers).

So-called experts will argue that properly cooking pork at 167 degrees Fahrenheit will destroy all the bacteria and worms in it. But studies have proven this not to be the case. One university heated trichinae-infested pig meat to an incredibly high temperature (nearly 500 degrees Fahrenheit) to test this theory. Even when the meat reached temperatures that could not be viably reproduced in one’s home, it still contained living worms. Simple organisms like these worms are remarkably resilient, and thoroughly cooking the pork does not make it safe.

And some of these parasites, like trichinosis, can be incredibly hard to detect. Former chairman of the New York Trichinosis Commission, Senator Thomas C. Desmond, stated, “Physicians have confused trichinosis with some 50 ailments, ranging from Typhoid Fever to Acute Alcoholism…That pain in your arm or leg may be arthritis or rheumatism, but it may be trichinosis. That pain in your back may mean a gall-bladder involvement, but it may mean trichinosis.”

Body’s Response

Another interesting fact about pork is related to how the human body digests animal fat. The process is called hydrolysis. Studies show that when you eat animal fat, it undergoes a conversion process that changes it from beef fat, for instance, into human fat-the form in which it is stored in the body. This allows the body to remove some of the toxins and to create tissue that is able to be converted into energy when needed.

Yet, pork is not subject to hydrolysis. Anytime you have pork chops or sausage, its fat is stored in the body as PORK FAT! As we have seen, fat stores much of the toxins. Therefore, you are storing the most toxic form of the animal!

As previously stated, when the body does not know how to deal with something-like toxins-it isolates it. In the case of toxins, it stores them in fat. Since your body was never designed to ingest swine fat, it does not know how to do deal with it. So it isolates it, unchanged as pig fat on your body!

And this tissue is not even useful for energy. To convert these pork fat deposits into usable energy, the body must burn up large amounts of glucose-an essential element of brain function. This can lead to a feeling of chronic hunger, which leads to the consumption of more meat-and the vicious cycle continues.

Studies have also shown that those who regularly eat pork are more prone to ulcerous skin infections. This should not be surprising, because ulcerous skin infections are COMMON on living pigs and, as we have seen, cooking does not kill all the worms and parasites in pork.

Other Deadly Creatures

We have focused on the most popular of unclean meats, but there are many reasons why certain birds, seafood and other creatures are also unhealthy. One example is that of clams and oysters. Typically, these shellfish are eaten raw. It has been found that 50 to 70% of all clams and oysters are contaminated with salmonella. Not only that, but such bottom-feeding creatures are typically saturated with heavy metals, such as mercury.

Another example would be that of armadillos. Not only are these creatures unclean to eat, but studies show they may even be dangerous to handle, as they may serve as reservoirs for leprosy.

One final study also bears some investigation. Though it was conducted many years ago, a modern “update” of this study, with a more exact toxicology analysis, would show similar results. A 1953 study published in the “Bulletin of the History of Medicine,” and written by Dr. David Macht, M.D., tested a variety of biblically clean and unclean animals for levels of toxicity. His finding confirmed everything covered so far. Every animal that the Bible declared as clean was found to be non-toxic. Conversely, each animal declared as unclean was found to be toxic and inedible based on these tests. Keep in mind that this study took place in a much less toxic society, so the same animals would be much more toxic today! It took mankind 6,000 years to determine this fact that has always been in the pages of the Bible!

Time and time again, study of these scavengers show that they are well-designed to clean, but they are not clean to eat. Just as you would not go into a sewage plant for dinner, you should not eat these natural sewage processors!

It takes very little investigation to learn why the Bible teaches what it has for thousands of years. God declares certain animals unclean and they are designated as such for a reason!

The Bible itself has never wavered on these teachings. If you look at the first book of the Bible-Genesis-you will find that Noah was instructed to take seven pairs of clean animals and one pair of unclean. Even then, God wanted mankind to eat what was created to be food and not to eat things that would poison him.

This is particularly important in the context of the account of the Flood. God was cleansing the world to start anew. He could have easily allowed for anything to be eaten if that was His choice. But He inspired this grouping of animals and the recording of it in Genesis as a lesson for us today.

For centuries, the Bible has been discounted as either a book of “stories” or some “good concepts”-it is not believed for what it says!Man ignores its plain teachings-including that of clean and unclean meats. You have seen that before science could prove it to be true, God’s Word told the truth. And this truth is only the tip of the iceberg. If you follow the laws that God set forth regarding diet, not only will you be pleasing the Creator of the universe, but you will enjoy bounding energy and solid health. Continue to dig deeper-what you may discover will most certainly surprise you!

----------------------

So just to sum up all that,

1. pig is natur'e trashbin that eats anything and everything
2. pig is infested with all kinds of parasites, worms and other creatures
3. pig doesn't really have a neck that can be sliced properly in an islamic way
4. Most important of all, Quranic verses above clearly forbid it and we obey

Why is blood forbidden to drink or eat? I love blood, especially as pudding but sausage is good to!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_pudding

Black pudding or blood pudding is a sausage made by cooking blood with a filler until it is thick enough to congeal when cooled. Blood sausage is a more recent North American term for the same as well as a useful term for similar blood-based solid foods around the world.
Firstly, it is forbidden as stated in the Quran in the above verses. That alone suffices us and we obey our Lord. As for medically speaking, read on...


EFFECTS OF DEAD MEAT AND BLOOD INGESTION:

Dead meat is the meat of animal which died before slaughtering and blood could not flow out, and blood ingestion is not only the drinking of blood as it was prevalent in the Jahiliya of Arabia or even now in Africa (and in France) but also the blood which is retained inside the meat by improper killing of the animal. All hormones, and antibodies are retained in the blood, and all infective organisms including virus flourish in the blood media, therefore ingestion of such will be dangerous midecally. It may also induce animal instincts as seen in carnivorous animals like dogs, cats, and lions.


Also, read...

The reason why it is forbidden to eat meat without draining the blood

Why does islam say that dogs are filthy and bad?
Iv heard that its cause they lick people, and the arabs didnt like that, thinking they made them filthy.
Islam doesn't say dogs are filthy and bad, but rather certain spots of them like the saliva, muzzle and the mouth area. They drink from toilets, lick their private parts and other stuff which makes all that area impure and touching it makes one impure as well. Arab's have no say in all of this, it is Allah who decides what is haraam and halaal and we obey the Lord as He commands.

Now this does not mean dogs are evil and what not. One is allowed to have a dog under certain conditions (hunting, guarding, etc). And even if one does not have a dog, it does not mean one can treat a dog as he/she sees fit. Islam emphasizes kindness to all of Allah's cretures.

Inshallah check out the link below.

Ruling on having a dog


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Also as an end note, you should check out www.islamqa.com as it's a great site for questions and answers and 9 out of 10 times you'll find an answer to your question over there inshallah :)
Reply

Woodrow
06-17-2007, 04:53 PM
Why are some things haram? Is it because Allah(swt) wants to restrict our happiness? Is it because Allah(swt) has a need to express his power? Is it because Allah(swt) is jealous of our being able to live in a physical world and be disobedient if we choose to do so?


More important we should ask:



Why did Allah(swt) give us life?

Why did Allah(swt) give us so much we can enjoy?

Why did Allah(swt) give us free choice?
Reply

NoName55
06-17-2007, 05:39 PM
4 pages of jiber jabbing and hardly anything worth readnig let alone answer the poor guy's questions....
Naudhobillah! May Allah Ta'ala save us from "eScholars" who feel this inexplicable need to belittle Muslim Brethren, who in reality are far more qualified and as I have come to learn, deserve a lot more respect. Even though, I do not know them in person, they have taught me quite a lot esp. 3 Brethren in Faith (a Sister has taught me a great deal too but she is not in this thread), one of whom is a PHD, another one with an M.A. and the 3rd one judging from his posts has more knowledge in his pinky than a 100 eScholars with Degrees from University of shaikh google

7 Woodrow
6 Ra`eesah
3 Al Habeshi
3 F@tim@
3 NoName55
3 al-muslimah
2 snakelegs
2 - Qatada -
1 mariam.
1 Malaikah
1 Muezzin
Reply

MuhammadRizan
06-18-2007, 04:11 AM
Trichinosis is caused by eating infected raw or insufficiently cooked pork, in which the immature parasite is encysted. When such a piece of meat is eaten, the encysted embryos are set free in the intestines, and develop into full-grown trichinae. From each pair of these, thousands of new embryos may arise in the course of several weeks. As soon as this new generation of embryos is produced, they make their way into the wall of the bowel, and thence wander through the circulation system, finally depositing themselves between the fibers of the voluntary muscles, where they become encysted. The first symptoms develop in the course of two weeks after the infection. The disease is characterized by fever and severe pain in the limbs and muscles, oedema of the soft tissues, and eosinophilia in the blood. The infection may result in severe damage to the nervous system (in the form of encephalitis), cardiac muscle (miocarditis), as well as other complications.

Despite the therapeutic advances, contemporary medicine does not provide an effective cure for trichinosis. The only efficient protection, therefore, is based on prevention, or giving up eating pork. Although the meat is subject to thorough inspection in slaughter-houses, as well as by the Sanitary Inspection, this procedure does not give a one hundred percent guarantee, as was clearly shown by the recent outbreak in Moscow.

The list of the microbes and parasites found in pork is vast. It should be emphasized that many of these diseases as yet remain incurable.

Taenia Solium (tapeworm). The taeniasis is caused by the brain?s infestation by the larvae form of the pork tapeworm, the gastrointestinal parasite, and may constitute up to 1.3 percent of the intracranial volume. The parasite?s onchosphere travels through the mucous membranes of the blood vessels into the portal circulatory system, and is thence transported throughout the body, infecting various internal organs, as well as the brain. The course of the disease is remittent and, symptomatically, is characterized by the presence of several niduses. The infestation may often be manifested in the development of the epileptic syndrome, meningism and the increase of the intracranial pressure.

Roundworms. Ascariasis may result in appendicitis, and some types of jaundice. The infestation is known to cause dyspepsia.

Schitosoma Japonica. This disease is manifested in hemorrhages and anemia. In the case of the ova infesting the brain or bone marrow, the disease may bring about paralysis or death.

Paragonimus Westermani. Infestation may result in haemoptysis, or the coughing up of blood, due to the worm setting in the lungs.

Paciolepsis Buski. This parasite causes dyspepsia, severe diarrhea and general edema.

Clonorchis Sinensis. Infestation by this parasite may be manifested in some types of jaundice.

Metastrongylus Apri may cause bronchitis or the inflammation of the lungs? tissue.

Gigantorinchus Gigas causes anemia and dyspepsia.

Balantidium Coli is known to cause acute dysentery, resulting in the severe emaciation.

Bacterial diseases

Tuberculosis.

Fusiformis Necrophulus, which causes a serious disease of the lower limbs.
Salmonella Cholera Suis (cholera)
Brucellosis, - the disease results in the irreversible loss of the victim?s capabilities.
Erysipelas, or St. Anthony?s fire.
Viral infections

Small pox.
Japanese encephalitis (B-type).
Influenza.
Protozoan infections
Toxoplasma Goundii. This microorganism causes a very serious disease of toxoplasmosis. In the congenital form the unborn child is infected by the mother. Toxoplasmosis often results in the sudden death within several days or weeks after birth. In the case of survival, the infection may result in mental retardation, loss of sight or deafness. The acquired form in adults may manifest itself in chronic fever, marked by liver and spleen malfunction, pneumonia, and hydrocephalus. This disease may also affect sight and hearing.
Those who consume pork are more prone to obesity due to the high percentage of fat in pork. In this group, blood cholesterol level is frequently higher than normal; pork-eaters are more susceptible to arteriosclerosis, which may result in cardiovascular diseases, malfunction of the brain blood-circulation, vascular pathology of the lower limbs, etc.

Pork is difficult to digest, which may be the cause of many chronic diseases of the digestive system. Ulcerous skin infections are more frequently found within the pork-consuming group. Of great interest is the research into the hydrolysis of pork fat, its deposition in the human body, and the extent of its utilization. There is a theory that animal fat, acquired by the consumption of the herbivorous animals? meat, undergoes a process of hydrolysis and is thence synthesized anew and deposited in the body as human fat. Pork fat, however, is not subject to hydrolysis and is consequently deposited in the human fat tissue as pork fat. Since the proper utilization of this fat deposit is problematic, in order to produce energy, the body burns up the stock of glucose, which is essential for brain activity. This process brings about a chronic feeling of hunger, which, in turn, results in a vicious circle: although having a substantial fat build-up, the person is constantly consuming additional food without feeling satisfied.


Most muslim are not sceintist, most muslim are not doctor---bsides all this infomation are from non muslim sites.

Blind faith is not good but better than dont have fate. at least muslim that never ate pigs will never expose to this bacteria.

can we consider this as miracle of quran bcoz all this bacterias and worms only found lately?:)
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