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Phil12123
06-11-2007, 03:05 AM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Not of Him nor of any Prophets. We do not believe in the pointing out of even minor sins of any Believer.
I see. Wondering... what does His name "Isa" mean in Arabic or whatever that name's language is? According to Matt. 1:21, Joseph was told that Mary would "bring forth a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he shall save his people from their sins." I think "Jesus" means Savior or "Yahweh saves." What does "Isa" mean and what is its derivation or etymology?
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Woodrow
06-11-2007, 03:22 AM
Originally Posted by Phil12123
I see. Wondering... what does His name "Isa" mean in Arabic or whatever that name's language is? According to Matt. 1:21, Joseph was told that Mary would "bring forth a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he shall save his people from their sins." I think "Jesus" means Savior or "Yahweh saves." What does "Isa" mean and what is its derivation or etymology?
Jesus(as) is the English version of Isa(as). Isa(as) was Hebrew and Isa(as) is the Arabic/Hebrew true name of Jesus(as) The Hebrew spelling is pronounced slightly different by English speakers owing partialy to the differences of the Arabic and Hebrew alphabets but when spoken in either Arabic or Hebrew they sound virtualy identical in my opinion.

I am not certain as to the actual Hebrew meaning of Isa(as) so I will not say it until I can find a verifiable source.
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evangel
06-11-2007, 03:24 AM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Jesus(as) is the English version of Isa(as). Isa(as) was Hebrew and Isa(as) is the Arabic/Hebrew true name of Jesus(as) The Hebrew spelling is pronounced slightly different by English speakers owing partialy to the differences of the Arabic and Hebrew alphabets but when spoken in either Arabic or Hebrew they sound virtualy identical in my opinion.

I am not certain as to the actual Hebrew meaning of Isa(as) so I will not say it until I can find a verifiable source.
I thought His Hebrew name was Yeshua.
Reply

Woodrow
06-11-2007, 04:00 AM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Jesus(as) is the English version of Isa(as). Isa(as) was Hebrew and Isa(as) is the Arabic/Hebrew true name of Jesus(as) The Hebrew spelling is pronounced slightly different by English speakers owing partialy to the differences of the Arabic and Hebrew alphabets but when spoken in either Arabic or Hebrew they sound virtualy identical in my opinion.

I am not certain as to the actual Hebrew meaning of Isa(as) so I will not say it until I can find a verifiable source.
A little more information as to the Name Isa(as) This seems to be accurate, however, It is still using the Latin spelling for the names and not the Hebrew. The Greek Pronunciation shown is much closer to the actual Hebrew spelling.

The word Jesus is the Latin form of the Greek Iesous, which in turn is the transliteration of the Hebrew Jeshua, or Joshua, or again Jehoshua, meaning "Jehovah is salvation." Though the name in one form or another occurs frequently in the Old Testament, it was not borne by a person of prominence between the time of Josue, the son of Nun and Josue, the high priest in the days of Zorobabel. It was also the name of the author of Ecclesiaticus, of one of Christ's ancestors mentioned in the genealogy, found in the Third Gospel (Luke 3:29), and one of the St. Paul's companions (Colossians 4:11). During the Hellenizing period, Jason, a purely Greek analogon of Jesus, appears to have been adopted by many (1 Maccabees 8:17; 12:16; 14:22; 2 Maccabees 1:7; 2:24; 4:7-26; 5:5-10; Acts 17:5-9; Romans 16:21). The Greek name is connected with verb iasthai, to heal; it is therefore, not surprising that some of the Greek Fathers allied the word Jesus with same root (Eusebius, "Dem. Ev.", IV; cf. Acts 9:34; 10:38). Though about the time of Christ the name Jesus appears to have been fairly common (Josephus, "Ant.", XV, ix, 2; XVII, xiii, 1; XX, ix, 1; "Bel. Jud.", III, ix, 7; IV, iii, 9; VI, v, 5; "Vit.", 22) it was imposed on our Lord by God's express order (Luke 1:31; Matthew 1:21), to foreshow that the Child was destined to "save his people from their sins." Philo ("De Mutt. Nom.", 21) is therefore, right when he explains Iesous as meaning soteria kyrion; Eusebius (Dem., Ev., IV, ad fin.; P.G., XXII, 333) gives the meaning Theou soterion; while St. Cyril of Jerusalem interprets the word as equivalent to soter (Cat., x, 13; P.G., XXXIII, 677). This last writer, however, appears to agree with Clement of Alexandria in considering the word Iesous as of Greek origin (Paedag., III, xii; P.G., VIII, 677); St. Chrysostom emphasizes again the Hebrew derivation of the word and its meaning soter (Hom., ii, 2), thus agreeing with the exegesis of the angel speaking to St. Joseph (Matthew 1:21).
Quote: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08374x.htm

The Hebrew name Yehoshua

Etymology is the study of word origins and how those words change in meaning and pronunciation over time. In Jewish thought, a name was never a random combination of sounds. A name was meant to convey the nature, essence, history, and reputation of the thing named. The importance of the power in a name is illustrated when Moses asked God what his "name" was. God told Moses he was the God of his ancestors and that he would save his people from bondage. God said "I am who am" (which sounds like "Yahweh"). God then said "This is my name forever, this is my name for all generations" (Exodus 3:11-15).

The basic root name of Jesus comes from the Hebrew name HO-SH-U-A (Joshua) meaning "Salvation." But "salvation" was only half the essence of his name. The full essence of the name Jesus comes from the story of Twelve Scouts when Moses gave Hoshea his new name "Yeho-shua," meaning "Yahweh-is-Salvation"
Source: http://jesus8880.com/chapters/gematria/yehoshua.htm

JOSHUA: was the word chosen by the King James translators to represent the Hebrew spelling of the Biblical Joshua before Ezra and Nehemiah. This word is pronounced YAH HO SHUA or YEH HO SHUA by those living in Israel today. It seems that the HO pronunciation is due to the addition of the vowels of Adonay to the word YHWH, in order to remind the reader to pronounce Adonay instead of YHWH, and that the most pure pre- Babylonian Hebrew pronunciation would be YA-hu-SHOOa. The word is a combination of YAH and Oshea. The word means YAH is Salvation.

"I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive." ......John 5:43

We read in in the King James version of Numbers 13:8-16 : Send thou men, that they may search the land of Canaan,... of the tribe of Ephraim, Oshea the son of Nun. ......And Moses called Oshea the son of Nun Jehoshua.

After the Babylonian captivity the Hebrew spelling changed. Linguists indicate that this is the "short form" of the name of Joshua that appears in earlier scripture. This word is pronounced YES SHUA by those living in Israel today.

IESOUS: was the word chosen by the writers of the Greek New Testament to represent both the Hebrew Old Testament Joshua and the English New Testament Jesus.


Source: http://www.toolonginthesun.com/ZEUS.htm



Note that the Hebrew Oshea would be pronounced almost identical with the Arabic/Aramaic spelling of Isa(as)

A bit of Irony Muslims call Isa(as) by his true name while Christians call Him by an English invention that did not exist until the writing of the KJV.
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Phil12123
06-11-2007, 05:14 AM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
A little more information as to the Name Isa(as) This seems to be accurate, however, It is still using the Latin spelling for the names and not the Hebrew. The Greek Pronunciation shown is much closer to the actual Hebrew spelling.

Note that the Hebrew Oshea would be pronounced almost identical with the Arabic/Aramaic spelling of Isa(as)

A bit of Irony Muslims call Isa(as) by his true name while Christians call Him by an English invention that did not exist until the writing of the KJV.
Are you sure? The first complete English translation appeared in the 14th century, and in the 16th century, William Tyndale led the struggle to create an English translation based on the original Greek, rather than the Latin Vulgate. I wonder what those English translations used for Jesus' name.

I found this article, which doesn't answer that question, but is of interest:


The History of the Name “JESUS”
By Ruben Barrett

The name Jesus is an anglicized form of the Latin Iesus, which itself is derived from the Greek name Iesous. Iesous was the Greek transliteration of the Aramaic name Yeshua, which itself was the later Aramaic form of the Hebrew name Yehoshua. [1]

BIBLICAL USAGE
We can follow the development of this name by looking at references to Joshua the son of Nun, the successor to Moses. Joshua was originally named Hoshea (Num. 13:16), but Moses changed it to Yehoshua (YHWH is salvation [2]) which has the Divine Name attached as a prefix. Yehoshua was the common name for Joshua, but in later Biblical times the name was shortened to the form Yeshua. This is evidenced in Nehemiah 8:17 where, in reference to Joshua, the Hebrew text [3] reads Yeshua in place of Yehoshua. The Septuagint [4], an ancient Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures, renders Joshua’s name as Iesous in the Nehemiah passage as well as throughout the book of Joshua. In transliterating to Greek, there is no “sh” sound, and this kind of noun requires an “–s” ending. Iesous was the result. In the New Testament there are two references to Joshua, Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8. In both of these places the Greek [5] uses the form Iesous, which most translations render as Joshua. The King James Version, however, mistakenly translates it as Jesus in both cases. But in all other cases it does refer to Jesus [6].

POST-BIBLICAL USAGE
As Christianity spread from the Middle East into Europe, Latin became the dominant language. Messiah’s Greek name was transliterated as Iesu, Ihesu or Iesus but pronounced the same as the Greek form. The letter “j” was a later development in the English language, not appearing in use until the Middle Ages [7]. Eventually his name was written in this manner, first as Jesu, then later as Jesus.

SUMMARY
Jesus grew up and lived in a cultural crossroad and multilingual society. He most certainly knew Hebrew, since it was the written language of Scripture and was used in synagogue and temple services. He also spoke Aramaic, since the New Testament gives examples of its use. [8] He probably spoke Greek as well, though we don’t know to what extent. Among Hebrew and Aramaic-speaking people, including his mother and those at home, he was called Yeshua. Among Greek-speaking people he was called Iesous. In today’s Messianic and Hebrew roots movements there is a call to return to the original name that Jesus grew up with (Yeshua), while some Sacred Name groups argue that His name was really Yahshua [9]. But neither the Jewish translators of the Septuagint nor the writers of the New Testament saw fit to record Joshua’s name any other way but Iesous. If they wanted to show the Divine Name (Yah) they could have written Iasous. But they did this for neither Joshua nor Jesus. Referring to Jesus today as Yeshua is perfectly acceptable, especially in Jewish culture, but it is not mandated. On the contrary, the Scriptures are full of examples of people who went by more than one name or had both Hebrew and foreign names [10]. Today we shorten names, accept nicknames, and use aliases. The Biblical pattern seems to be acceptance of name changes and variations. In other words, they were just like us. A fitting name, Yeshua means “salvation” [11] for “he will save his people from their sins” (Matt. 1:21) and is referred to in the New Testament as “the name that is above every name” (Philippians 4:3).

Footnotes:
[1] The Oxford English Dictionary, Ed. J. A. Simpson and E. S. C. Weiner. 2nd ed. (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1989), s.v. “Jesus.”
[2] Encyclopaedia Judaica, CD ROM ed. (Jerusalem: Judaica Multimedia and Keter Publishing, 1997), s.v. “Joshua.”
[3] The Masoretic Text as preserved in Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia (Stuttgart: Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft, 1967/77).
[4] Septuaginta, CD ROM ed. (Stuttgart: Württembergische Bibelanstalt / Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft and Bibleworks, LLC, 1935/1998).
[5] The Greek New Testament, 3rd ed. (Stuttgart: United Bible Society and Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft, 1983).
[6] Why, then, do we refer to Joshua and Jesus by different names, since the New Testament authors and audience understood that their names were the same (Yeshua in Aramaic and Iesous in Greek)? Jerome, in translating the Bible into Latin in the late 4th century, made this distinction. He translated the Hebrew Yehoshua and Yeshua into Latin as Iosue. But in the New Testament He rendered Iesous consistently as Iesu/Iesus, even though it referred to Joshua in some places. If he had used the Septuagint as his source for the Old Testament instead of the Hebrew, then he would have likely rendered everything consistently as Iesu(s), and today we would have never heard of Joshua. We would be calling him Jesus the son of Nun. The same scenario is at work regarding the apocryphal book of Sirach (Ecclesiasticus). Its author was Yeshua ben Sirach. Before the discovery of its original Hebrew editions, the work was only known through its Greek and Latin versions. So he is usually referred to as Jesus the son of Sirach. Source text: Biblia Sacra Vulgata, (Stuttgart: Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft,1969).
[7] The World Book Encyclopedia, 1960 ed., s.v. “J.”
[8] Mark 5:41; 7:34; 15:34; c.f. Matthew 27:46
[9] How the Savior’s Name Was Changed, (Kingdom City: Yahweh’s New Covenant Assembly, 1993).
[10] Abram/Abraham (Gen 17:5); Jacob/Israel (Gen 32:28); Joseph/Zaphenath-Panea (Gen 41:45); Simon/Peter (Matt. 10:2); Joseph/Barsabbas/Justus (Acts 1:23); Saul/Paul (Acts 13:9) are just a few. Joshua alone is referred to by three different names in the Hebrew Bible (Hoshea, Yehoshua and Yeshua) and Iesous in Greek. There are many Biblical figures who had more than one name. When transferred into Greek, many Hebrew names lost the original force of their meaning. That Jesus’ common name would be any different should not surprise us.
[11] Others translate it as “He will save,” “the LORD saves,” “salvation of YHWH,” or “the LORD is salvation.”


http://www.hadavar.net/nameofjesus.html

With all that, I still don't see "Isa" anywhere. I see "Iesu" and "Iesus" (Jerome's Latin) but not "Isa."
Reply

Woodrow
06-11-2007, 07:17 AM
Originally Posted by Phil12123
Are you sure? The first complete English translation appeared in the 14th century, and in the 16th century, William Tyndale led the struggle to create an English translation based on the original Greek, rather than the Latin Vulgate. I wonder what those English translations used for Jesus' name.

I found this article, which doesn't answer that question, but is of interest:


The History of the Name “JESUS”
By Ruben Barrett

The name Jesus is an anglicized form of the Latin Iesus, which itself is derived from the Greek name Iesous. Iesous was the Greek transliteration of the Aramaic name Yeshua, which itself was the later Aramaic form of the Hebrew name Yehoshua. [1]

BIBLICAL USAGE
We can follow the development of this name by looking at references to Joshua the son of Nun, the successor to Moses. Joshua was originally named Hoshea (Num. 13:16), but Moses changed it to Yehoshua (YHWH is salvation [2]) which has the Divine Name attached as a prefix. Yehoshua was the common name for Joshua, but in later Biblical times the name was shortened to the form Yeshua. This is evidenced in Nehemiah 8:17 where, in reference to Joshua, the Hebrew text [3] reads Yeshua in place of Yehoshua. The Septuagint [4], an ancient Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures, renders Joshua’s name as Iesous in the Nehemiah passage as well as throughout the book of Joshua. In transliterating to Greek, there is no “sh” sound, and this kind of noun requires an “–s” ending. Iesous was the result. In the New Testament there are two references to Joshua, Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8. In both of these places the Greek [5] uses the form Iesous, which most translations render as Joshua. The King James Version, however, mistakenly translates it as Jesus in both cases. But in all other cases it does refer to Jesus [6].

POST-BIBLICAL USAGE
As Christianity spread from the Middle East into Europe, Latin became the dominant language. Messiah’s Greek name was transliterated as Iesu, Ihesu or Iesus but pronounced the same as the Greek form. The letter “j” was a later development in the English language, not appearing in use until the Middle Ages [7]. Eventually his name was written in this manner, first as Jesu, then later as Jesus.

SUMMARY
Jesus grew up and lived in a cultural crossroad and multilingual society. He most certainly knew Hebrew, since it was the written language of Scripture and was used in synagogue and temple services. He also spoke Aramaic, since the New Testament gives examples of its use. [8] He probably spoke Greek as well, though we don’t know to what extent. Among Hebrew and Aramaic-speaking people, including his mother and those at home, he was called Yeshua. Among Greek-speaking people he was called Iesous. In today’s Messianic and Hebrew roots movements there is a call to return to the original name that Jesus grew up with (Yeshua), while some Sacred Name groups argue that His name was really Yahshua [9]. But neither the Jewish translators of the Septuagint nor the writers of the New Testament saw fit to record Joshua’s name any other way but Iesous. If they wanted to show the Divine Name (Yah) they could have written Iasous. But they did this for neither Joshua nor Jesus. Referring to Jesus today as Yeshua is perfectly acceptable, especially in Jewish culture, but it is not mandated. On the contrary, the Scriptures are full of examples of people who went by more than one name or had both Hebrew and foreign names [10]. Today we shorten names, accept nicknames, and use aliases. The Biblical pattern seems to be acceptance of name changes and variations. In other words, they were just like us. A fitting name, Yeshua means “salvation” [11] for “he will save his people from their sins” (Matt. 1:21) and is referred to in the New Testament as “the name that is above every name” (Philippians 4:3).

Footnotes:
[1] The Oxford English Dictionary, Ed. J. A. Simpson and E. S. C. Weiner. 2nd ed. (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1989), s.v. “Jesus.”
[2] Encyclopaedia Judaica, CD ROM ed. (Jerusalem: Judaica Multimedia and Keter Publishing, 1997), s.v. “Joshua.”
[3] The Masoretic Text as preserved in Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia (Stuttgart: Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft, 1967/77).
[4] Septuaginta, CD ROM ed. (Stuttgart: Württembergische Bibelanstalt / Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft and Bibleworks, LLC, 1935/1998).
[5] The Greek New Testament, 3rd ed. (Stuttgart: United Bible Society and Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft, 1983).
[6] Why, then, do we refer to Joshua and Jesus by different names, since the New Testament authors and audience understood that their names were the same (Yeshua in Aramaic and Iesous in Greek)? Jerome, in translating the Bible into Latin in the late 4th century, made this distinction. He translated the Hebrew Yehoshua and Yeshua into Latin as Iosue. But in the New Testament He rendered Iesous consistently as Iesu/Iesus, even though it referred to Joshua in some places. If he had used the Septuagint as his source for the Old Testament instead of the Hebrew, then he would have likely rendered everything consistently as Iesu(s), and today we would have never heard of Joshua. We would be calling him Jesus the son of Nun. The same scenario is at work regarding the apocryphal book of Sirach (Ecclesiasticus). Its author was Yeshua ben Sirach. Before the discovery of its original Hebrew editions, the work was only known through its Greek and Latin versions. So he is usually referred to as Jesus the son of Sirach. Source text: Biblia Sacra Vulgata, (Stuttgart: Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft,1969).
[7] The World Book Encyclopedia, 1960 ed., s.v. “J.”
[8] Mark 5:41; 7:34; 15:34; c.f. Matthew 27:46
[9] How the Savior’s Name Was Changed, (Kingdom City: Yahweh’s New Covenant Assembly, 1993).
[10] Abram/Abraham (Gen 17:5); Jacob/Israel (Gen 32:28); Joseph/Zaphenath-Panea (Gen 41:45); Simon/Peter (Matt. 10:2); Joseph/Barsabbas/Justus (Acts 1:23); Saul/Paul (Acts 13:9) are just a few. Joshua alone is referred to by three different names in the Hebrew Bible (Hoshea, Yehoshua and Yeshua) and Iesous in Greek. There are many Biblical figures who had more than one name. When transferred into Greek, many Hebrew names lost the original force of their meaning. That Jesus’ common name would be any different should not surprise us.
[11] Others translate it as “He will save,” “the LORD saves,” “salvation of YHWH,” or “the LORD is salvation.”


http://www.hadavar.net/nameofjesus.html

With all that, I still don't see "Isa" anywhere. I see "Iesu" and "Iesus" (Jerome's Latin) but not "Isa."
With all that, I still don't see "Isa" anywhere. I see "Iesu" and "Iesus" (Jerome's Latin) but not "Isa."
One of the pleasures of trying to transliterate Arabic into English letters. The Actual Arabic spelling of Isa(as) is: عيسى

The names of the letters are:

'ayn ya seen waw

The corresponding Latin letters are Iesu
Ie='ayn ya..... s=Seen...... u=waw

but the closest English pronounciation is Isa(as)

Some transliteraters will use Iesu, Eesu or Esoo but the closest pronunciation is Isa(as) with a short I
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Trumble
06-11-2007, 07:46 AM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
A bit of Irony Muslims call Isa(as) by his true name while Christians call Him by an English invention that did not exist until the writing of the KJV.
That's a little bit unfiar on 'Christians' in general - blame it on the English ones! The Spanish in particular is far closer to the Greek.
Reply

Woodrow
06-11-2007, 08:49 AM
Originally Posted by Phil12123
[B]Are you sure? The first complete English translation appeared in the 14th century, and in the 16th century, William Tyndale led the struggle to create an English translation based on the original Greek, rather than the Latin Vulgate. I wonder what those English translations used for Jesus' name.

Here are the first few Verses of 1 Joon from the Wycliff Bible the oldest existing English Translation and in 14th century English. but typed instead of the original handwritten. I'll try to find some pages of the original handwritten.

CAP 1
1 That thing that was fro the bigynnyng, which we herden, which we sayn with oure iyen, which we bihelden, and oure hondis touchiden, of the word of lijf; and the lijf is schewid.
2 And we sayn, and we witnessen, and tellen to you the euerlastynge lijf, that was anentis the fadir, and apperide to vs.
3 Therfor `we tellen to you that thing, that we seyn, and herden, that also ye haue felowschipe with vs, and oure felowschip be with the fadir, and with his sone Jhesu Crist.
4 And we writen this thing to you, that ye haue ioye, and that youre ioye be ful.
5 And this is the tellyng, that we herden of hym, and tellen to you, that God is liyt, and ther ben no derknessis in him.
6 If we seien, that we han felawschip with hym, and we wandren in derknessis, we lien, and don not treuthe.
7 But if we walken in liyt, as also he is in liyt, we han felawschip togidere; and the blood of Jhesu Crist, his sone, clensith vs fro al synne.
8 If we seien, that we han no synne, we disseyuen vs silf, and treuthe is not in vs.
9 If we knowlechen oure synnes, he is feithful and iust, that he foryyue to vs oure synnes, and clense vs from al wickidnesse.
10 And if we seien, we han not synned, we maken hym a liere, and his word is not in vs.

CAP 2
1 Mi litle sones, Y write to you these thingis, that ye synnen not. But if ony man synneth, we han an aduocat anentis the fadir,
2 Jhesu Crist, and he is the foryyuenes for oure synnes; and not oneli for oure synnes, but also for the synnes of al the world.
3 And in this thing we witen, that we knowen hym, if we kepen hise comaundementis.
4 He that seith that he knowith God, and kepith not hise comaundementis, is a liere, and trewthe is not in hym.
5 But the charite of God is perfit verili in hym, that kepith his word. In this thing we witen, that we ben in hym, if we ben perfit in hym.
6 He that seith, that he dwellith in hym, he owith for to walke, as he walkide.
7 Moost dere britheren, Y write to you, not a newe maundement, but the elde maundement, that ye hadden fro the bigynnyng. The elde maundement is the word, that ye herden.
8 Eftsoone Y write to you a newe maundement, that is trewe bothe in hym and in you; for derknessis ben passid, and veri liyt schyneth now.
9 He that seith, that he is in liyt, and hatith his brother, is in derknesse yit.
10 He that loueth his brothir, dwellith in liyt, and sclaundre is not in hym.
11 But he that hatith his brother, is in derknessis, and wandrith in derknessis, and woot not whidir he goith; for derknessis han blindid hise iyen.
12 Litle sones, Y write to you, that youre synnes ben foryouun to you for his name.
13 Fadris, Y write to you, for ye han knowun hym, that is fro the bigynnyng. Yonge men, Y write to you, for ye han ouercomun the wickid.
14 Y write to you, yonge children, for ye han knowe the fadir. Y write to you, britheren, for ye han knowen hym, that is fro the bigynnyng. Y write to you, yonge men, for ye ben stronge, and the word of God dwellith in you, and ye han ouercomun the wickid.
15 Nyle ye loue the world, ne tho thingis that ben in the world. If ony man loueth the world, the charite of the fader is not in hym.
16 For al thing that is in the world, is coueitise of fleisch, and coueitise of iyen, and pride of lijf, which is not of the fadir, but it is of the world.
17 And the world schal passe, and the coueitise of it; but he that doith the wille of God, dwellith with outen ende.
18 My litle sones, the laste our is; and as ye han herd, that antecrist cometh, now many antecristis ben maad; wherfor we witen, that it is the laste our.
19 Thei wenten forth fro vs, but thei weren not of vs; for if thei hadden be of vs, thei hadden dwelte with vs; but that thei be knowun, that thei ben not of vs.
20 But ye han anointyng of the Hooli Goost, and knowen alle thingis.
21 Y wroot not to you, as to men that knowen not treuthe, but as to men that knowen it, and for ech leesing is not of treuthe.
22 Who is a liere, but this that denyeth that Jhesu is not Crist? This is antecrist, that denyeth the fadir, and the sone.

Source: http://wesley.nnu.edu/biblical_studies/wycliffe/1jo.txt


For the entire Wycliff Bible here is a link to it:

Source: http://wesley.nnu.edu/biblical_studi...iffe/index.htm


I urge you to read it and compare it with the Bible you use. Remember, this goes back to The 14th Century and predates the Catholic Douay Rheims and was the Bible used in England up until the KJV
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vpb
06-11-2007, 08:57 AM
Here is the audio of the recitation of one of the verses of Surah Al-Baqara, where the name of Isa a.s, is mentioned. In case that you want to hear the proper pronounciation.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/wsf495
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Woodrow
06-11-2007, 09:06 AM
Originally Posted by vpb
Here is the audio of the recitation of one of the verses of Surah Al-Baqara, where the name of Isa a.s, is mentioned. In case that you want to hear the proper pronounciation.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/wsf495
:sl:

Jazakallah Khairn, it is good to hear it by a native Arabic speaker. I never could get it right trying to spell it out.
Reply

vpb
06-11-2007, 09:16 AM
Jazakallah Khairn, it is good to hear it by a native Arabic speaker. I never could get it right trying to spell it out.
Shuraim is a legend recitator. :)
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Woodrow
06-11-2007, 11:06 AM
Here is the Tyndale Bible from 1526 Newer than the Wycliffe but still 85 years before the KJV
Chapter 1
1 That which was fro the begynninge concerninge which we have hearde which we have sene with oure eyes which we have loked vpon and oure hondes have hadled of the worde of life.
2 For the lyfe appered and we have sene and beare witnes and shewe vnto you that eternall lyfe which was with the father and appered vnto vs.
3 That which we have sene and herde declare we vnto you that ye maye have felloushippe with vs and that oure fellishippe maye be with the father and his sonne Iesus Christ.
4 And this write we vnto you that oure ioye maye be full.
5 And this is the tydynges which we have hearde of him and declare vnto you that god is lyght and in him is no darknes at all
6 yf we saye that we have fellishippe with him and yet walke in darknes we lye and do not the truth:
7 but and yf we walke in (lyght) even as he is in lyght then have we fellishippe with him and the bloud of Iesus Christ his sonne clenseth vs from all synne.
8 Yf we saye that we have no synne we deceave oure selves and trueth is not in vs.
9 Yf we knowledge oure synnes he is faythfull and iust to forgeve vs oure synnes and to clense vs from all vnrightewesnes.
10 Yf we saye we have not sinned we make him a lyar and his worde is not in vs.

Chapter 2
1 My lytell children these thynges write I vnto you that ye synne not: yf eny man synne yet we have an advocate with ye father Iesus Christ which is righteous:
2 and he it is that obteyneth grace for oure synnes: not for oure synnes only: but also for the synnes of all the worlde.
3 And herby we are sure that we knowe him yf we kepe his comaundementes.
4 He that sayth I knowe him and kepeth not his commaundementes is a lyar and the veritie is not in him.
5 Whosoever kepeth his (worde) in him is the love of god parfect in dede. And therby knowe we that we are in him.
6 He that sayth he bydeth in him ought to walke even as he walked.
7 Brethren I write no newe comaundement vnto you: but that olde comaundemet which ye hearde from the begynnynge.
8 The olde comaundement is the worde which ye hearde from the begynnynge. Agayne a newe comaundement I write vnto you a thynge that is true in him and also in you: for the darknes is past and the true lyght now shyneth.
9 He that sayth how that he is in the light and yet hateth his brother is in darknes even vntyll this tyme.
Source: http://wesley.nnu.edu/biblical_studi...dale/index.htm

Now here is the first time the Name Jesus(as) appears in English. In 1611 KJV

1 John, chapter 1

1: That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2: (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
3: That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
4: And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
5: This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6: If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8: If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9: If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10: If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Source: http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin...&division=div1


Now the main point of this being. Who is the English Name Jesus(as)? It is not a translation of any name in the Bible. It is not the name of the Son of Mary?
Where did it come from? Certainly the people in England would have known that the proper English Translation would have been Iesu(as), that was the name used right up to 1611 and the printing of the KJV. If it was a spelling error why was it not corrected in newer printings? If you are going to worship Iesu(as) why not call Him by his name?

So now to summarize the topic.

To Muslims the answer to "who is the Trinity?" would be:

A meaningless concept erroneously taught by some people.
Reply

vpb
06-11-2007, 11:35 AM
Now the main point of this being. Who is the English Name Jesus(as)? It is not a translation of any name in the Bible. It is not the name of the Son of Mary?
Where did it come from? Certainly the people in England would have known that the proper English Translation would have been Iesu(as), that was the name used right up to 1611 and the printing of the KJV. If it was a spelling error why was it not corrected in newer printings? If you are going to worship Iesu(as) why not call Him by his name?
brother , this is nothing, recently they made some other changes in the bible, with the prettext that they are only using different translation.

The Contemporary English Version of the Bible (CEV), published last year by the American Bible Society... is being actively sponsored by the American Interfaith Institute... as the first Bible to contain no anti-Judaism. The claim is presumably bassed on the retranslating , or in some cases the paraphrasing or simply ommiting, of certain prejudicial allusions to Jews in the New Testament.

Bible Review, vol. xii, no.5, Oct. 1996, p.42. Italics added.

Examples are where 'the Jews' has been changed to 'the people', 'a great crowd of the Jews' to 'a lot of people', 'Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!' to 'You Pharises and teachers of the Law of Moses are in for trouble! You're nothing but show-offs'.

also,

KJV provides the translation of 2 Chronicles 21:11-13,

11. Moreover [Jehoram] made high places in the mountains of Judah, and caused the inhabitants of Jerusalem to commit fornification, and compelled Judah thereto
12.And there came a writing to him from Elijah the prophet, saying, Thus saith the Lord God of David thy father, Because thou hast not walked in the ways of JEhoshaphat thy father, nor in the ways of Asa king of Judah,
13But hast walked in the way of the kings of Isreal and hast made Judah and the inhibitants of Jerusalem to go a-whoring, like to the *****doms of the house of Ahab, and also hast slain thy brethren of thy father's house, which were better than thyself.

whereas CEV provides:

11. Jehoram even built local shrines in the hills of Judah and let the people sin against the Lord by worshiping foriegn gods.
12.One day, Jehoram received a letter from Elijah the prophet that said: I have a message for you from the Lord God your ancestor David worshiped. He knows that you have not followed the example of Jehoshaphat your father or Asa your grandfather.
13 Instead you have acted like those sinful kings of Isreal and have encouraged the people of Judah to stop worshiping the Lord, just as Ahab and his descendants did. You even murdered your own brothers, who were better man than you.

taken from the book History of Quranic Text.the author comments more but I just wrote them briefly.

I showed just one example, cuz more are listed in the book. but just to show, how they are translating (and changing) things during time.

so I wouldn't be suprised that they changed also the name to 'Jesus'.

this was just to support the post of brother Wodroow.
Reply

Keltoi
06-11-2007, 01:44 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Here is the Tyndale Bible from 1526 Newer than the Wycliffe but still 85 years before the KJV


Source: http://wesley.nnu.edu/biblical_studi...dale/index.htm

Now here is the first time the Name Jesus(as) appears in English. In 1611 KJV



Source: http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin...&division=div1


Now the main point of this being. Who is the English Name Jesus(as)? It is not a translation of any name in the Bible. It is not the name of the Son of Mary?
Where did it come from? Certainly the people in England would have known that the proper English Translation would have been Iesu(as), that was the name used right up to 1611 and the printing of the KJV. If it was a spelling error why was it not corrected in newer printings? If you are going to worship Iesu(as) why not call Him by his name?

So now to summarize the topic.

To Muslims the answer to "who is the Trinity?" would be:

A meaningless concept erroneously taught by some people.
The New Testament was written in Greek, as we all know, so obviously the name Jesus isn't going to appear there. Jesus is a translation of the Greek name "lesous", which was translated into Latin as "Jesu", which was translated into English as "Jesus". The more important element here is that Jesus, or however you wish to translate the name, was the Christ.
Reply

Woodrow
06-11-2007, 02:43 PM
Originally Posted by Keltoi
The New Testament was written in Greek, as we all know, so obviously the name Jesus isn't going to appear there. Jesus is a translation of the Greek name "lesous", which was translated into Latin as "Jesu", which was translated into English as "Jesus". The more important element here is that Jesus, or however you wish to translate the name, was the Christ.
Here is the Latin Vulgate that both the Tynsdale and Wyclyffe translated from.

1 John
Chapter 1

1. quod fuit ab initio quod audivimus quod vidimus oculis nostris quod perspeximus et manus nostrae temptaverunt de verbo vitae
2. et vita manifestata est et vidimus et testamur et adnuntiamus vobis vitam aeternam quae erat apud Patrem et apparuit nobis
3. quod vidimus et audivimus adnuntiamus et vobis ut et vos societatem habeatis nobiscum et societas nostra sit cum Patre et cum Filio eius Iesu Christo
4. et haec scribimus vobis ut gaudium nostrum sit plenum
5. et haec est adnuntiatio quam audivimus ab eo et adnuntiamus vobis quoniam Deus lux est et tenebrae in eo non sunt ullae
6. si dixerimus quoniam societatem habemus cum eo et in tenebris ambulamus mentimur et non facimus veritatem
7. si autem in luce ambulemus sicut et ipse est in luce societatem habemus ad invicem et sanguis Iesu Filii eius mundat nos ab omni peccato
8. si dixerimus quoniam peccatum non habemus ipsi nos seducimus et veritas in nobis non est
9. si confiteamur peccata nostra fidelis est et iustus ut remittat nobis peccata et emundet nos ab omni iniquitate
10. si dixerimus quoniam non peccavimus mendacem facimus eum et verbum eius non est in nobis

Chapter 2

1. filioli mei haec scribo vobis ut non peccetis sed et si quis peccaverit advocatum habemus apud Patrem Iesum Christum iustum
2. et ipse est propitiatio pro peccatis nostris non pro nostris autem tantum sed etiam pro totius mundi
3. et in hoc scimus quoniam cognovimus eum si mandata eius observemus
4. qui dicit se nosse eum et mandata eius non custodit mendax est in hoc veritas non est
5. qui autem servat verbum eius vere in hoc caritas Dei perfecta est in hoc scimus quoniam in ipso sumus
6. qui dicit se in ipso manere debet sicut ille ambulavit et ipse ambulare
7. carissimi non mandatum novum scribo vobis sed mandatum vetus quod habuistis ab initio mandatum vetus est verbum quod audistis
8. iterum mandatum novum scribo vobis quod est verum et in ipso et in vobis quoniam tenebrae transeunt et lumen verum iam lucet
9. qui dicit se in luce esse et fratrem suum odit in tenebris est usque adhuc
10. qui diligit fratrem suum in lumine manet et scandalum in eo non est
11. qui autem odit fratrem suum in tenebris est et in tenebris ambulat et nescit quo eat quoniam tenebrae obcaecaverunt oculos eius
12. scribo vobis filioli quoniam remittuntur vobis peccata propter nomen eius
Source: http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/www/Vulgate/

It is strange that Jerome used Iesum in verse 1 of chapter 2. I'm going to have to refresh my old Latin and see what the suffix UM means.

You will find some latin versons of the KJV in which Jesu is used. however if you trace those down they were the KJV translated into Latin and not Latin from the original Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic.

The Vulgate That I quoted above was translated by Jerome from Hebrew and Aramaic and not from Greek in 382-416 AD There does not appear to be any texts of any kind written prior to 1611 that used the word Jesu or Jesus in any context.

On the surface this does not seem to be a major issue. However, there must be some reason why a new name was made. This was not Iesu translated into an English name, This was Iesu being rewritten into a previously non-existant word.

A short History of Jeromes Latin vulgate can be found here:


http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/vul/index.htm
Reply

Phil12123
06-11-2007, 06:54 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow

The History of the Name “JESUS”
By Ruben Barrett

The name Jesus is an anglicized form of the Latin Iesus, which itself is derived from the Greek name Iesous. Iesous was the Greek transliteration of the Aramaic name Yeshua, which itself was the later Aramaic form of the Hebrew name Yehoshua. [1]

BIBLICAL USAGE
We can follow the development of this name by looking at references to Joshua the son of Nun, the successor to Moses. Joshua was originally named Hoshea (Num. 13:16), but Moses changed it to Yehoshua (YHWH is salvation [2]) which has the Divine Name attached as a prefix. Yehoshua was the common name for Joshua, but in later Biblical times the name was shortened to the form Yeshua. This is evidenced in Nehemiah 8:17 where, in reference to Joshua, the Hebrew text [3] reads Yeshua in place of Yehoshua. The Septuagint [4], an ancient Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures, renders Joshua’s name as Iesous in the Nehemiah passage as well as throughout the book of Joshua. In transliterating to Greek, there is no “sh” sound, and this kind of noun requires an “–s” ending. Iesous was the result. In the New Testament there are two references to Joshua, Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8. In both of these places the Greek [5] uses the form Iesous, which most translations render as Joshua. The King James Version, however, mistakenly translates it as Jesus in both cases. But in all other cases it does refer to Jesus [6].

POST-BIBLICAL USAGE
As Christianity spread from the Middle East into Europe, Latin became the dominant language. Messiah’s Greek name was transliterated as Iesu, Ihesu or Iesus but pronounced the same as the Greek form. The letter “j” was a later development in the English language, not appearing in use until the Middle Ages [7]. Eventually his name was written in this manner, first as Jesu, then later as Jesus.

SUMMARY
Jesus grew up and lived in a cultural crossroad and multilingual society. He most certainly knew Hebrew, since it was the written language of Scripture and was used in synagogue and temple services. He also spoke Aramaic, since the New Testament gives examples of its use. [8] He probably spoke Greek as well, though we don’t know to what extent. Among Hebrew and Aramaic-speaking people, including his mother and those at home, he was called Yeshua. Among Greek-speaking people he was called Iesous. In today’s Messianic and Hebrew roots movements there is a call to return to the original name that Jesus grew up with (Yeshua), while some Sacred Name groups argue that His name was really Yahshua [9]. But neither the Jewish translators of the Septuagint nor the writers of the New Testament saw fit to record Joshua’s name any other way but Iesous. If they wanted to show the Divine Name (Yah) they could have written Iasous. But they did this for neither Joshua nor Jesus. Referring to Jesus today as Yeshua is perfectly acceptable, especially in Jewish culture, but it is not mandated. On the contrary, the Scriptures are full of examples of people who went by more than one name or had both Hebrew and foreign names [10]. Today we shorten names, accept nicknames, and use aliases. The Biblical pattern seems to be acceptance of name changes and variations. In other words, they were just like us. A fitting name, Yeshua means “salvation” [11] for “he will save his people from their sins” (Matt. 1:21) and is referred to in the New Testament as “the name that is above every name” (Philippians 4:3).

Footnotes:
[1] The Oxford English Dictionary, Ed. J. A. Simpson and E. S. C. Weiner. 2nd ed. (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1989), s.v. “Jesus.”
[2] Encyclopaedia Judaica, CD ROM ed. (Jerusalem: Judaica Multimedia and Keter Publishing, 1997), s.v. “Joshua.”
[3] The Masoretic Text as preserved in Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia (Stuttgart: Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft, 1967/77).
[4] Septuaginta, CD ROM ed. (Stuttgart: Württembergische Bibelanstalt / Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft and Bibleworks, LLC, 1935/1998).
[5] The Greek New Testament, 3rd ed. (Stuttgart: United Bible Society and Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft, 1983).
[6] Why, then, do we refer to Joshua and Jesus by different names, since the New Testament authors and audience understood that their names were the same (Yeshua in Aramaic and Iesous in Greek)? Jerome, in translating the Bible into Latin in the late 4th century, made this distinction. He translated the Hebrew Yehoshua and Yeshua into Latin as Iosue. But in the New Testament He rendered Iesous consistently as Iesu/Iesus, even though it referred to Joshua in some places. If he had used the Septuagint as his source for the Old Testament instead of the Hebrew, then he would have likely rendered everything consistently as Iesu(s), and today we would have never heard of Joshua. We would be calling him Jesus the son of Nun. The same scenario is at work regarding the apocryphal book of Sirach (Ecclesiasticus). Its author was Yeshua ben Sirach. Before the discovery of its original Hebrew editions, the work was only known through its Greek and Latin versions. So he is usually referred to as Jesus the son of Sirach. Source text: Biblia Sacra Vulgata, (Stuttgart: Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft,1969).
[7] The World Book Encyclopedia, 1960 ed., s.v. “J.”
[8] Mark 5:41; 7:34; 15:34; c.f. Matthew 27:46
[9] How the Savior’s Name Was Changed, (Kingdom City: Yahweh’s New Covenant Assembly, 1993).
[10] Abram/Abraham (Gen 17:5); Jacob/Israel (Gen 32:28); Joseph/Zaphenath-Panea (Gen 41:45); Simon/Peter (Matt. 10:2); Joseph/Barsabbas/Justus (Acts 1:23); Saul/Paul (Acts 13:9) are just a few. Joshua alone is referred to by three different names in the Hebrew Bible (Hoshea, Yehoshua and Yeshua) and Iesous in Greek. There are many Biblical figures who had more than one name. When transferred into Greek, many Hebrew names lost the original force of their meaning. That Jesus’ common name would be any different should not surprise us.
[11] Others translate it as “He will save,” “the LORD saves,” “salvation of YHWH,” or “the LORD is salvation.”
One of the pleasures of trying to transliterate Arabic into English letters. The Actual Arabic spelling of Isa(as) is: عيسى

The names of the letters are:

'ayn ya seen waw

The corresponding Latin letters are Iesu
Ie='ayn ya..... s=Seen...... u=waw

but the closest English pronounciation is Isa(as)

Some transliteraters will use Iesu, Eesu or Esoo but the closest pronunciation is Isa(as) with a short I
Interesting. So Isa is from the Arabic translation of the Latin "Iesus". What would be the Arabic translation of the Greek "Iesous"? The same?
Reply

Woodrow
06-11-2007, 07:58 PM
Originally Posted by Phil12123
Interesting. So Isa is from the Arabic translation of the Latin "Iesus". What would be the Arabic translation of the Greek "Iesous"? The same?
just the opposite the Latin and the Greek transtlated that from the same semetic group which consists of Arabic/Aramaic/Hebrew. Which to a non-semetic speaker can best be described as dialects of the same language. Very few speak aramaic any more and that was replaced by a more modern form called Amharic. although most speakers of any of the Semetic dialects can reasonably understand Aramaic. The writing of them all look different but vocally they sound like they are all the same language and the spelling rules are basicaly the same. The probably with all 3 is you get variation in spelling because typically vowels are not used in the spellings.

Not quite all three are from the same Hebrew word. However, Hebrew, Arabic and Aramaic are basicaly dialects of the same language. Our words are nearly identical in all 3 languages the main difference is the alphabets used. As a Muslim we belief Hebrew and Aramaic are dialects of arabic. Naturaly each of those believe that the other 2 are dialects of them.

the Arabic Allah(swt) Hebrew Elohem and the Aramaic Ali are basically the same words and it would be difficult for a non-Semetic speaker to tell the difference by hearing them spoken properly.

The Semitic languages are a family of languages spoken by more than 300 million people across much of the Middle East, North Africa, and the Horn of Africa . They constitute the northeastern subfamily of the Afro-Asiatic languages, and the only branch of this group spoken in Asia.

The most widely spoken Semitic language today is Arabic[1] (270 million total speakers), followed by Amharic (27 million first language speakers),[2][3] Tigrinya (about 6.7 million total speakers[4]) and Hebrew (5 million first language speakers[5]). Semitic languages were among the earliest to attain a written form, with Akkadian writing beginning in the middle of the third millennium BCE. Maltese is the only Semitic Language written in Roman script. The term "Semitic" for these languages, after Shem, the son of Noah in the Bible, is etymologically a misnomer in some ways (see Semitic), but is nonetheless standard.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_languages

The words for "peace" in Arabic and Hebrew are not exactly the same, but they look suspiciously similar. Why?

The answer is that Arabic and Hebrew are closely related languages. They have a great number of similarities, not only in basic vocabulary but also in grammar, the forms of words, and sentence structure. They share these features because they belong to the same language family, that of the Semitic languages. In the following unit we will investigate some of these similarities and the background behind them. In the process, we will learn some important linguistic concepts, such as the concepts of language families, sound changes, and regular correspondences of sounds. We will also gain practice in analysis and problem-solving. [Continued (with Exercises) in 4 PDF Files Listed Below]
http://mesas.emory.edu/gmesc/units/6-ArabicHebrew/
Reply

Balthasar21
06-17-2007, 12:05 AM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Jesus(as) is the English version of Isa(as). Isa(as) was Hebrew and Isa(as) is the Arabic/Hebrew true name of Jesus(as) The Hebrew spelling is pronounced slightly different by English speakers owing partialy to the differences of the Arabic and Hebrew alphabets but when spoken in either Arabic or Hebrew they sound virtualy identical in my opinion.

I am not certain as to the actual Hebrew meaning of Isa(as) so I will not say it until I can find a verifiable source.





Ques ; If There Was No '' J '' Sound .. How Was '' Jesus '' Pronounced ''
Ans ; That Means That The Word '' Jesus '' Is No Older That The16th Or 17th Century !!!! < Don't Believe Me , Check It Out For Yourself >


Ques ; If There Was No '' J '' In The English Language Before 1565 A.D. How Did The Name '' Jesus '' Come About ?

Ans ; With A Little Research , You Will Find That The Names '' Zeus '' <Geek > And '' Jesus '' < Greek >Are Linked By The Same Root According To The Larousee Encyclopedia Of Mythology The Greek '' God '' Dionysus Is Etymologically '' Zeus '' God '' Or Gad '' Was The Seventh Son Of Jacob '' God '' Also Stands For Gomer Which Is Wisdom , Oz - Which Is Beauty And Dabar - Which Is Strength Dionysis Is '' God '' Of Wine ; Also Known As


Bacchus , HowEver , The Final Syllable Of Dionysus Or Zeues Is Identical To The Ending Of '' Jesus '' This Break Down Proves That The Reason For Selecting The Suffix , - Sus , For The Word '' Jesus '' Was Because Of Dionysus Or Zeus Who Was Known As The Greek Savior , When The Bible Was Translated Into The English Language . Zeus Is Jesus < Just Take A LQQk For YourSelf !!! >


When You Combine Then Modern Form Of The Aramic ( Hebrew ) '' Y ''( ' ) Which Is Pronounced '' Yod '' To Get The Latin '' J '' ( l ) And Then Add It To The Word Zeus - You Get - Ja - Zeus , Which Is Short For Yashua ( Jesus )
And From Zeus You Got The Word Souse And Then . It Became A Dity From Which Comes Deus In Portuguese , Dieu In French , Dio , In Italian , Dios , In Spanish , Dia In Scotch And Irish , And Duw In Welsh .


EveryDay New Names Are Being Added . When You Research Further On The Meaning Of The Suffix - sus , You Find That , According To The Webster's Third New International Dictionary , That - sus Is From The French , Latin Meaning '' Swine , Hog , Sow . The Scientific Classification For The Pig Is Sus Scrofa . The Word '' Souse '' ( Sus ) Is The Name Of A Certain Type Or Combination Of Pork That Is Pickled . Souse Is Also A Nickname ForThe South , As In '' Souse Carolina. '' Some May Call This Is


Blasphemy , But Truth Is Truth , And Fact AreFacts
Reply

Umar001
06-17-2007, 12:12 AM
What I found when I was browsing on this topic AGES ago, was a site which had the aramaic, a Christian site. Eesa's name was Eeshoo or something.
Reply

Balthasar21
06-21-2007, 11:02 PM
Where Did The Word '' Christ '' Come From ?


Ans; '' Christ '' Is The English Corruption Of The Greek Word '' Kristos '' Which Comes From The The Latin Word '' Cristus '' The Root Of '' Kristos '' Is The Greek Word '' Krio '' Which Means '' To Rub Over , To Anoint '' . Kristos Is The Greek Interpretation Of The Hebrew Word

Mashiah Which Takes Its Origin From The Ashuric / Syriac ( Arabic ) Word Masiyh Meaning '' Anointed '' . The Ashuric / Syriac ( Arabic ) Word Masiyh Derived From The Root Word Masaha Which Means ; '' He Wiped Clean , He Healed And Annointed .

From The '' Christus '' Christ '' Comes Into The Old English As '' Crist '' . To The Middle English Root '' Christ '' , And Then To The English As '' Christ '' Originally The Word '' Kristos '' Comes From Sanskirt , The Ancient Script Of The 200 Fallen Angelic Beings Who

Were Cast Down To The Planet Earth The Head Of The Fallen Angelic Beings Was Named '' Tarnush '' And He Was Called '' Krisna '' , The Demon Deity Of The Hindus , Who Were Descendants Of The 200 Fallen Eloheem ( Disagreeable Beings ) Of The Land Of Nod .

This Is Where The Word Kristos '' Is Derived . According To '' The American Heritage Dictionary '' Their Definition For '' Christ '' Is Jesus Christ Regarded By Christians As Being The Son Of God And The Messiah Foretold By The Prophets Of The Old Testement .

Thus Rendering One Who Believes In '' Christ '' Or '' Jesus '' A Christian . They Also Define The Era Of Time This Religion Began As Being Roughly At His Birth 1 . A.D. -- Which Is An Incorrect Date . First Of All Yashu'a / Jesus Did Not Speak GREEK So He Never Knew The Word '' Christ '' , Which Is A Greek Word , Or The Word '' Christian '' , Or For That Matter , The Name '' Jesus '' Which Is Also A Greek Word .




Does The Word '' Christ '' Have Any Other Meaning ?
Reply

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